Arbitrary prices of 'Rare' collectibles...

[Ijiamee]

<p>I was looking to finish some old collectible quests via the AH last night and couldn't help but notice some odd behavior.</p><p>Now, it's been a while since I last played, but I know that for each collection there is one item that is the most difficult to find and therefore more pricey....</p><p>Anyway, as I start looking for the 'rare' pieces to finish my collections I notice something pretty disturbing, the 'rare' items aren't rare at all but the prices for the items are still outrageous. One of the pieces I needed had three pages full on the AH, with some of the pieces stacked. Yet each one was up for over a plat while every other piece in the collection was going for 7s... Nonsense.</p><p>Maybe it's just me, but I'm of the thinking that if there are three full pages of the item you have for sale, up on the AH, that item is not rare, and apparently not real popular when over priced if the three pages of 1-plat leafs aren't selling.</p><p>The arbitrarily high prices being applied to so called ‘rare' collectibles is doo doo.</p><p>Doo doo, I say. </p>

[Korpo]

If they aren't that rare, what's stopping you from going out and digging one out of the ground yourself?

[Jesdyr]

Sometimes last week someone was saying that the "rares" have the same drop rate as the rest of the items in the collection. I figured this was not true but since I would out  hunting collection items in a zone (New Tunaria) that has few collection items, I would do a small sample test. At the time I had about 48 collection items on me .. I gathered a few more (something like 65 items total) and ran the numbers. If the chance for any one item was the same, there would be a 7% chance to get a given item. Using the sample I had it came out to 6.8% of the items were "rare"..  The rare in this case is based on the item being used for the EoF expert collection as well as it's normal set. I am not sure this holds true for all collection sets, but so far the numbers suggest there is no real rare (at least for these sets).

[Noaani]

<cite>JesDer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes last week someone was saying that the "rares" have the same drop rate as the rest of the items in the collection. I figured this was not true but since I would out  hunting collection items in a zone (New Tunaria) that has few collection items, I would do a small sample test. At the time I had about 48 collection items on me .. I gathered a few more (something like 65 items total) and ran the numbers. If the chance for any one item was the same, there would be a 7% chance to get a given item. Using the sample I had it came out to 6.8% of the items were "rare"..  The rare in this case is based on the item being used for the EoF expert collection as well as it's normal set. I am not sure this holds true for all collection sets, but so far the numbers suggest there is no real rare (at least for these sets). </blockquote><p> Thats far too small a sample to make any assumptions.</p><p>I got 3 gold vases in a row in New Tunaria yesterday, but I am more than aware that if i were to collect 10,000 collection pieces for that zone, I would have less gold vases than I would any other collectable.</p>

[C]

I would go so far as to say that the so-called rares tend to be "less common" than the rest of the collectibles, but that when collecting within an enclosed dungeon, for example Crushbone Keep or Klak'Anon, the chances of coming up with some "rares" after a few laps is very high.  I agree that the broker prices for these items is totally out of proportion to the difficulty of finding them, and simply can't imagine who would pay those ridiculous amounts.

[Jesdyr]

Noaani wrote: <blockquote><p> Thats far too small a sample to make any assumptions.</p><p>I got 3 gold vases in a row in New Tunaria yesterday, but I am more than aware that if i were to collect 10,000 collection pieces for that zone, I would have less gold vases than I would any other collectable.</p></blockquote> I know it is a very small sample set. When I did the math I was shocked at what it ended up being but thinking about it.. It feels right. I would estimate that I have harvested about 40 "rares" from NT and the set I had pulled that day seemed normal to me.  You are at the will of the RNG and at this point everyone should know how weird it can be.  I have pulled the same item 4 times in a row. I have had 3 rares in a row once and only the 1st two were the same rare. The RNG is just like that.

[Allisia]

<p>I've logged thousands of ? harvests in my time in EQ2 and there most certainly are rare harvests. The EoF ones are easy to spot -- they're the one you need two of: one for the normal collection and one for the Faydwer collection.</p><p>Dungeon collectibles tend to be a little easier than overland ones due to the smaller area and thus greater ? density. There is one dungeon where I can find four ?s in three rooms and harvest them pretty much nonstop so long as another player doesn't break my rhythm. Takes about 5 min to do the entire circuit. Within four or five circuits I had all the non-rare harvests and it took another 15 or so circuits to get two of each rare.</p><p>Some harvest are rarer than others due to in game factors. The Nektulos pine needles for example. It's just difficult to find ?s in that zone, and there are so many "trash" collectibles that finding one you need can be horrific.</p>

[liveja]

Ijiamee wrote: <blockquote><p>The arbitrarily high prices being applied to so called ‘rare' collectibles is doo doo.</p></blockquote><p>Well, if you're correct that those items aren't very rare, they shouldn't be very difficult for you to find for yourself. </p>

[liveja]

<cite>JesDer wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not sure this holds true for all collection sets </blockquote><p>I don't think it will hold true for any zone other than New Tunaria, where the "rare" collectibles are not particularly rare.</p><p>Try it in DOF zones, & see how long it takes you to get a Lost Soul. </p>

[Mantell]

<p>There are clearly some that are rarer than others. It's proven by the goggles collection in EOF being one of each of the rare collectables from the expansion. It's not like they picked twenty random pieces, each one they picked is rare.</p><p>Yeah those pine needles are a real bear to find in Nek. In fact I so rarely get one that whenever I do I put it on the broker and sell it for 2p rather than add it to the collection that I know I'll never finish.</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Mantell wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah those pine needles are a real bear to find in Nek. In fact I so rarely get one that whenever I do I put it on the broker and sell it for 2p rather than add it to the collection that I know I'll never finish.</p></blockquote> The problem with Nek is that you can walk right past a shiney without knowing it or they can spawn way up in a tree where no one can get to it. I ran around Nek once with a bunch of divining rods and walked out with a few plat worth of collection items just because that zone is such a pain.

[Ijiamee]

<p>dupe posts</p>

[Ijiamee]

<p><b>Korpo wrote:</b></p><p><b>If they aren't that rare, what's stopping you from going out and digging one out of the ground yourself?</b></p><p>-----</p><p> I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you aren't a total jack [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Re read my post and tell me where I said I couldn't "dig one out of the ground". I didn't. What I said was: "The arbitrarily high prices being applied to so called ‘rare' collectibles is doo doo."</p><p>Do you disagree with that statement? If so, please explain why. </p><p>Explain why a leaf on the AH, along with 45 of the same leaves, goes for 1pat when the reward is 15% aa xp and a level 35 necklace with less than 20 attribute points; while all the other leaves in the collection go for under a gold. I'll expalin it for ya, arbitraty prices pulled right out of someone's [I cannot control my vocabulary] and then being applied to an item. Here's a clue, if there are 3 pages full after a search for an item on the AH, that item is neither rare, nor in high demand. If it was either, there wouldn't be 3 pages worth of the item on the AH. That's just common sense.</p><p>And I didn't say that items were being hoarded, or that I can't get a leaf cause they're all over-priced on the AH, I never even alluded to that. I said "The arbitrarily high prices being applied to so called ‘rare' collectibles is doo doo." And I'm right.</p><p>-----</p><p><b>livejazz wrote:</b></p><p><b>Well, if you're correct that those items aren't very rare, they shouldn't be very difficult for you to find for yourself.</b></p><p>You should call your mom immediately and thank  her for the amazing intellect she's passed down. The power of deduction you display is only surpassed by that of Korpro. You intellectual dynamo; go get em Tiger.</p>

[Cathars]

Its a completely supply / demand driven free market here.  An item sells for exactly what its worth to the buyer.  Look ... obviously the 3 pages of that particular item aren't going to sell until some of them come down in price and hit the threshold where people will buy, but until then you have two options; wait, or talk to a seller and negotiate a price.  There are actual people behind those items and you can mail or talk to them.  Offer a price you're willing to pay. 

[Thicket Tundrabog]

<cite>JesDer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mantell wrote: The problem with Nek is that you can walk right past a shiney without knowing it or they can spawn way up in a tree where no one can get to it. I ran around Nek once with a bunch of divining rods and walked out with a few plat worth of collection items just because that zone is such a pain. </blockquote>Pardon me for the diversion but how do get divining rods in EQ-2 and what do they do? Presumably they find shinies. The rarity of the 'lost soul' collectible makes me wonder whether it even exists anymore.

[Sanati]

<cite>JesDer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes last week someone was saying that the "rares" have the same drop rate as the rest of the items in the collection. </blockquote> I think this is true, for at least some collections. After playing on several different servers I've noticed the "rares" for a bunch of sets aren't the same. On one server a particular piece will sell for 1p, on another it's 10s. It's not because it's harder to find they cost so much, it's because one piece has to be designated the "last piece" so people can make money off of it. I would not put it past somebody to buy up all of a common collection item and put it on sale for an obscene price. Everyone needs that item, and it's just assumed it's priced high because it's rare, so other people price it the same. It's not "supply and demand," it's "that person is selling for 1p so I will too." I honestly believe that's how many of these collection "rares" came about. The only people that pay that much are stupidly rich alts, and RMTs.

[Tomanak]

<p>Sigh..happens everytime, someone is perceived as complaining about what someone is pricing an item for on  the broker and you'll have someone post the brillant rejoiner.."well go get your own" LOL..read his post people. its not the cost of rare collectibles he finds silly but the fact that there's 50 of them with prices ranging from 5 sp to 2 plat..</p><p> I would venture that some of those that are out there for 1+ plat have been sitting on the broker for months and months and the people who placed them there simply havent adjusted the price to a more reasonable level. </p><p>ie 5 months ago I look on the broker for collection piece #5, there arent any out there so I presume (or atm it is) its rare and price it for 1 plat. Others then come along and see mine out there for a plat and price theres for a plat. Eventually as the number of collection item #5 reaches critical mass, those who adjust their marketed items or have recently placed them there see there are 50 items and adjust their items down. </p><p>I for example have 2 accounts. I sell mainly from account 1 (where my main is) and the items that account 2 has for sale havent been looked at for about 3 months. Im not even sure Ive logged onto that toon for a month or so, and I know I havent checked the broker on them. if I found a MMC collectible in November and placed it on the broker, it would have been expensive. Since that time the price for those items has come down, but for me its still on there for the higher price as I havent bothered going back on and changing it.</p>

[Jesdyr]

Oakthicket@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote> Pardon me for the diversion but how do get divining rods in EQ-2 and what do they do? Presumably they find shinies. The rarity of the 'lost soul' collectible makes me wonder whether it even exists anymore. </blockquote> Divining rods are made by a tinker. They will track all harvestable items (this includes shinies and some quest items). They cost a few gold to make and only have 5 charges each.  You can normally buy them from the broker for a very small markup. Normally I use them to "plot out" the shinies spawn area and then just run around after I figure out the respawn time. Zones like Nek, well they are the best way to find shinies due to all the trees.

[Ijiamee]

Sugota@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote><p>Sigh..happens everytime, someone is perceived as complaining about what someone is pricing an item for on  the broker and you'll have someone post the brillant rejoiner.."well go get your own" LOL..read his post people. its not the cost of rare collectibles he finds silly but the fact that there's 50 of them with prices ranging from 5 sp to 2 plat..</p></blockquote>Thank you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bayne]

Don't mean to be dense, but what does AH stand for? Are you talking about the broker?

[Niffoni]

Everything is worth what people will pay for it.  No more, no less. If it's not worth that much to you, don't buy it.  If people won't pay for what it's being offered for, that is the seller's loss.  Not your's =)

[Sanati]

<cite>Niffoni wrote:</cite><blockquote>If people won't pay for what it's being offered for, that is the seller's loss.  Not your's =) </blockquote> That's not true if you need the item. It's a loss for both people, the person selling isn't making any money, and the people who need the item can't buy it.

[Ruut Li]

<p>What is the point of this post? The op gets a very logical and reasonable suggestion: go get it urself, but apparantly thats not an issue. Op thinks people will put a "nicer" price for his lazy bum because of this thread? </p><p>And bringing in someones mom into the discussion oh thats sweet, thank you for opening the gate: when you op are able to concentrate enough to step away from the "Mommy I want that item NOW!!!!!" - attitude and just WAIT (oh dear god) for a couple of days so that the pricewar on the "rare" precious item (that you are obvioulsy expecting other players to get for you for a nice price) goes down, you will get it cheaper. Usually I only have to wait one day for the price to lower, when I see mutliple pages of an item. Say what you want about ppls mom but yours surely did spoil you! <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Agaxiq]

I've also seen a lot of people "buy up" all of a cheap collectible and then attempt sell them (or a small subset of them) at a very high price. Might not always work, but if buying up the inventory only costs you 2-3g, and you can get a sucker to buy it for 80g, it would be worth it. agressiv

[redde]

I think people totally are missing the point, like you ruut. The prices for the "rare" shinies are high. They are all over 1plat despite there being 3 pages of them all priced at around 1plat. In my opinion, the reason is this: the "rare" eof shinies are used to get the collection goggles so that you can then go ahead and gather the blue shinies (oh great joy). The only other function is AA and XP. When EoF first came out, everyone wanted the goggles, so the prices for the shinies that went in the expert recognition collection were high (simple supply/demand argument). Also remember the EoF rare shinies fit in 2 collections which again increases the demand (especially for the high end ones that reward nice items). This means people would be harvesting shinies that sold for several plat, and they could be doing this at any level. Those with little money got used to selling these shinies to the rich kids, and couldn't break the habit! Now - time has passed since the release of EoF, most people who want them have collected the expert recognition goggles with at least one of their toons. The blue shinies are tradeable between toons, so it is most likely they only want to do expert recognition with 1 of their characters, as the cost of buying these rare ones is really not worth the AAxp rewarded from that 1 collection. This gives rise to a decline in demand for the rare shinies. People are reluctant however to drop below a certain price- apparently 1plat on the server in question- and despite pages and pages of sellers with the same thing, are pricing very similar to what is already up there. As people go through re-pricing old stuff that is on their broker (typically undercutting the lowest sale price) the rare shiny price will go down, just wait. As for the argument about the rarity of the rares - I'm not that convinced. I haven't conducted any trials myself, but I have found a large number of 'rare' shinies over time. They feel rarer, because people put their gathered shinies into 2 categories: the rare or the rest. If you went into a zone looking for a specific 'non rare' shiny, it bet it would take longer than you think. I certainly don't think that the drop rate is as different as many people make it out to be - I think they look at the prices on the broker, see the disparity between the two, and jump to conclusions.

[Ruut Li]

<p>Nope im not missing the point at all. Multiple pages of sellers means that the price will be driven down, claiming otherwise is a huge pile of doodoo. Whining that theres 3 pages of overpriced items is pointless; just wait a little bit /rolleyes. Most sellers want to sell their items fast, no way a collectible that got 2+ pages of sellers will have a "high" price for very long.</p><p>Maybe I should point out the obvious though: you cant wait for too long, you will most likely not be able to buy the item for a few copper...</p>

[Ijiamee]

<p>Essentially the broker is a place for sellers to bid down to buyers. We all know that a person puts up an item for a certain amount and then the price steadily goes down as undercutters place identical items. This goes on until someone feels it is reasonably priced and buys the cheapest one. Problem is, as long as the initial item stays on the AH, it will be the base price, the starting point if you will; even though its price is wholly unreasonable and totally arbitrary.</p><p>I bought a collectible item last night, for example, for 96s. There were three of the same item on the AH for over 4p.</p><p>What needs to be done is that there should be a limit to the length of time an item can stay on the AH. That way, when Joe Blow Super Brain puts a Shattered Ratonga Bone on the AH for 5p42g and Ruut Li follows suit by putting the next up for 5p 41g 99s, and so on and so on; that once the price is finally undercut to a reasonable amount, you know, 45s; the Super Brains and Ruut lis of the world can get a clue. When they go back to replace it on the AH they can see what a reasonably priced item goes for and place it accordingly.</p><p>Right now the system doesn't have a mechanism to notify ‘entrepreneurs' that they've been undercut by 98%, by 15 different people, and maybe they should remove that item that's been up there overpriced for 3 weeks.</p><p>Less ridiculous clutter on the Ah, less incentive for the wholly clueless to place items out of reach of the buyer, etc. </p><p>Everyone is trying to make a buck, some more so than others, and the AH is a prime example of this.</p>

[Ruut Li]

<p>rofl yes! what a wonderful idea to police the market so that spoilt little crybaby Ijiamee hopefully gets what he wants at what he thinks is a fair price (yes he is the god and emperor of eq2 market). That way his mom wont have to deal with the waaa-waaaa phonecalls, poor thing <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Lol seriously the market is not broken. Even if i put a shattered rat bone up for 5p (omg the horror!!) the price will be down to gold or silver as soon as there are many sellers. </p><p>And if clutter bothers you so much you need some healthy home therapy like helping your poor mom with house cleaning instead of spending time at some AH (?) in a game feeling anxiety over the horrible clutter rofl!</p>

[Allisia]

<p>I have finally deduced that AH means Auction House. I know it had me stuped for a long time just what they were referring to.</p>

[Catsy]

Ruut Li wrote: <blockquote><p>Multiple pages of sellers means that the price will be driven down, claiming otherwise is a huge pile of doodoo.</p></blockquote> No, it isn't. People with just enough knowledge of economics to be dangerous like to bleat about the "free market" and "supply and demand", without understanding all of the externalities that have an effect on the equation. In the case of rare shinies, for example, the prices are artificially inflated by several factors. One is exclusivity: the tremendous investment of time and/or money that goes into getting the Collection Goggles ensures that aside from the hardcore collectors, the people who get them are generally making an investment in hopes of making money on the blue shinies. Since these can only be harvested by people with the Goggles, these people have a corner on the market. While in many cases the "rare" items on the broker number in the dozens, they have no incentive to lower their prices, since more people completing the Expert Recognition collection will result in more people able to get blue shinies for themselves, and a dilution of their monopoly on the source. Another factor is the herd mentality mentioned above. When someone checks the broker to see what something is worth, and find nothing, they pick a selling price more or less arbitrarily. When others do the same, and see that price, it is assumed to be the baseline. While some sellers looking to make a quick plat will undercut the others, the average price typically doesn't move a whole lot unless a few impatient sellers get into a price war, or the items sell out entirely and someone else sets a new arbitrary price point. Additionally, there is the perception of value disconnected from actual supply or risk. Because of the zero risk factor for most characters in harvesting Gfay or Butcherblock, it is easier to find, say, a Fat Grub than it is to find some of the "rare" items from the KoS collections, which share an enormous loot table. Yet with few exceptions, most KoS collection items go for a few gold at most--it is (or was, until people bought them all up for their Arasai alts) possible to complete some of the KoS collections for less than 10g. Yet Fat Grubs go for a minimum of 50g, and more typically a plat or more, simply because people "know" that they're part of the EoF rare collection. Finally, whenever someone does price one of these collectibles appropriately, it either gets bought up by someone who genuinely needs it, or by speculators who then put it back on the market at a more ridiculous price, ignoring the price wars and counting on someone to eventually be stupid enough to buy it. These people exert an upward pressure on the market prices, not a downward one. People generally aren't pricing EoF rare collectibles the way they are because they're intrinsically worth that. Nothing has intrinsic worth. They're not even doing it because that's what people will pay for them--I've watched the same collectibles sit on the broker from the same sellers for months at a time at some outlandish price. The price that something is listed on the broker isn't what someone will pay, it's rather self-evidently what no one has yet been willing to pay. The upshot is that due to a variety of factors that have little or nothing to do with actual supply and demand, prices are in fact arbitrarily inflated on these items and the result is that collectors and people who want to complete any of the the EoF collections for AA get the short end of the stick. It's crappy. But the only thing we can really do about it is refuse to buy at these prices, even if we can afford to.

[Ruut Li]

<p>Ok so apparantly there might be a few collections (blue shiny thingies) that might be perceived as monopolized with a couple of pages of items listed for a plat or whatever. First off, I havent finished these google and blue shiny collections because: I dont like the price (Im not whining about it) and I dont have time to get the collections done myself. wow! and I have not started a crybaby thread about it?? Pat me on the back <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Second, just because you "cant" finish a collection because someone is "greedy" doesnt justify policing the market. Even if there would be 50 pages of fat grub priced 1 p, so what? Stop staring at the "clutter" lol, and start playing the game. </p><p>Whats meant by "just enough knowledge to be dangerous"? hmm this thread seems so politically incorrect <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Some needs to be reminded too that eq2 is a game, and the market is part of the game. Its quite embarrassing that people act as if its comparable to real life issues. Its a stinking collectible lol.</p>

[Ijiamee]

<p>Great post, Sotanyavejin. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Moongloom]

Arrex@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote><p>I have finally deduced that AH means Auction House. I know it had me stuped for a long time just what they were referring to.</p></blockquote> Yes, AH (Auction House) is what the Broker is called in that other crappy, cartoony game.

[Catsy]

Ruut Li wrote: <blockquote><p> Second, just because you "cant" finish a collection because someone is "greedy" doesnt justify policing the market. Even if there would be 50 pages of fat grub priced 1 p, so what? Stop staring at the "clutter" lol, and start playing the game.</p></blockquote> First of all, I can't recall where I or the OP advocated "policing the market". Can you point me to that post? What I do recall--and admittedly, this is pretty recent memory, aided by my Back button--is several people noting that the prices on these items are artificially inflated. I presume that the purpose of this, aside from public kvetching, is to encourage 1) buyers to not purchase these items at these prices, and 2) sellers to not list items at these prices. That's an attempt to influence the market. Probably a futile one, but there's nothing wrong with that; we influence the market every time we interact with it, or choose not to interact with it. Policing the market, on the other hand, would be setting coded price controls on a per-item basis, or implementing a mechanism other than social pressure to punish speculators and price-gougers. <blockquote><p>Whats meant by "just enough knowledge to be dangerous"? hmm this thread seems so politically incorrect <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> What I meant by "just enough knowledge to be dangerous" is when someone understands enough about a given topic to use its terminology in a way that sounds convincing to the uninformed reader, but who doesn't really understand what they're talking about and ends up misinforming or misleading people. It has no semantic relation at all with political correctness, which I can only assume is another term you're using without understanding what it means. <blockquote><p>Some needs to be reminded too that eq2 is a game, and the market is part of the game. Its quite embarrassing that people act as if its comparable to real life issues. Its a stinking collectible lol.</p></blockquote> What are you going on about here? Yes, EQ is a game. And yes, the market is a part of the game. Curiously enough, we are on a forum dedicated to discussing issues relating to said game. Even more curiously, this thread is--wait for it--discussing an issue relating to said game.

[Ruut Li]

<cite>Ijiamee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Essentially the broker is a place for sellers to bid down to buyers. We all know that a person puts up an item for a certain amount and then the price steadily goes down as undercutters place identical items. This goes on until someone feels it is reasonably priced and buys the cheapest one. Problem is, as long as the initial item stays on the AH, it will be the base price, the starting point if you will; even though its price is wholly unreasonable and totally arbitrary.</p><p>I bought a collectible item last night, for example, for 96s. There were three of the same item on the AH for over 4p.</p><p><b>What needs to be done is that there should be a limit to the length of time an item can stay on the AH. That way, when Joe Blow Super Brain puts a Shattered Ratonga Bone on the AH for 5p42g and Ruut Li follows suit by putting the next up for 5p 41g 99s, and so on and so on; that once the price is finally undercut to a reasonable amount, you know, 45s; the Super Brains and Ruut lis of the world can get a clue. When they go back to replace it on the AH they can see what a reasonably priced item goes for and place it accordingly.</b></p><p><b>Right now the system doesn't have a mechanism to notify ‘entrepreneurs' that they've been undercut by 98%, by 15 different people, and maybe they should remove that item that's been up there overpriced for 3 weeks.</b></p><p>Less ridiculous clutter on the Ah, less incentive for the wholly clueless to place items out of reach of the buyer, etc. </p><p>Everyone is trying to make a buck, some more so than others, and the AH is a prime example of this.</p></blockquote><p>There ya go concerning policing the market. To me the suggestion means policing the market. That dangerous too? Rofl!</p><p>And seriously sotan you really need to lighten up hahaha. You agree this is a game forum, so please dont tell ppl who are stating their opinion that they are DANGEROUS. It would truly be sad if ppl came to this GAME board to be EDUCATED. No eq2 player has to be an economics expert in order to realise that generally lots of sellers = lower price. No Board user has to be an economics expert to state whats common knowledge in a GAME. Seems liek you want to come off as a mature debater in this game forum /giggle, but sorry buddy you ruined it when you called another user DANGEROUS for having an opinion about the game. </p>

[DngrMou]

<cite>Sanati wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Niffoni wrote:</cite><blockquote>If people won't pay for what it's being offered for, that is the seller's loss.  Not your's =) </blockquote> That's not true if you need the item. It's a loss for both people, the person selling isn't making any money, and the people who need the item can't buy it. </blockquote> No, 'need' does not equal a right to someone else's stuff. 

[Catsy]

Ruut Li wrote: <blockquote><p>There ya go concerning policing the market. To me the suggestion means policing the market. That dangerous too? Rofl!</p></blockquote>Look, not to put too fine a point on it, but you really don't know what you're talking about. I'm sorry that to you, these suggestions amount to "policing the market". To me, all this means is that you don't understand the plain meaning of the words you're using. <blockquote><p>And seriously sotan you really need to lighten up hahaha. </p></blockquote> You obviously haven't heard me on Vent. <blockquote><p>You agree this is a game forum, so please dont tell ppl who are stating their opinion that they are DANGEROUS. It would truly be sad if ppl came to this GAME board to be EDUCATED. </p></blockquote>"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again." Over time this has evolved into the aphorism "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing", or the idiom "just enough knowledge to be dangerous", carrying the meaning of someone who possesses some smattering of knowledge of something (computers, economics, nuclear physics, or some other esoteric subject), but does not understand it well enough to use it wisely. I explain this not to insult you, but because you don't appear to have any understanding of what the phrase means, based on your repeated assertions that I'm calling people "DANGEROUS" for "having/stating an opinon". Do you understand what an idiom is? Have you never heard this one? As for being EDUCATED, gods forbid anyone come to this forum to learn anything. <blockquote><p>No eq2 player has to be an economics expert in order to realise that generally lots of sellers = lower price. No Board user has to be an economics expert to state whats common knowledge in a GAME. </p></blockquote> No, but it helps to have a nontrivial understanding of the subject and the externalities in the EQ2 market if one is going to bandy around a painfully simplified understanding of supply and demand as if you were an authority on the matter. <blockquote><p>Seems liek you want to come off as a mature debater in this game forum /giggle </p></blockquote> I'm afraid you've got me there. I only wish you were making more than a faint effort to do the same.

[Ruut Li]

<p>oh dear could you be more stuck up and amusing at the same time? <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>You simply cannot accept that my opinion is that "simply" influencing the market the way op suggested is policing the market. So you simply tell me that I dont understand, lol thats so funny! You think its harmless influencing, I do not. You can toss all your fancy debating comments around and then tell me Im clueless, it wont change the fact that you simply cannot accept my very legit opinion. I dont recall anyone saying that you are the one who decides what degree of influencing is policing..?</p><p>Then there was some poetry or something in the middle, and more Ruut is clueless /lolz. Yes I am quite an airhead, and Im having tons of fun teasing the pushed-to-the side debate wanna-be:s that come here and flash their "skillz". Look it was a sad day when you got pwnd over at the the prestigeous debate forum, but coming here and demanding expert knowledge from people before they post is just so lame and hilarious (thank you for posting). My clueless opinion is that its a games forum and hence we shouldnt be so darn serious and stuck up. But if that wasnt the case I wouldnt be having any fun now would I? Why dont I try to impress with my mature debate skills? Because seriously, again, its a games forum, and at the end of the day it doesnt matter. Your not gonna win a prize, but perhaps some temporary bumkissing from a virtual "friend" who was impressed by your efforts to turn this into a serious matter.</p><p>Now reply again and tell me I did not understand anything. I will reply you dont understand that my opinion is that influencing the market the way op suggests is not harmless, and round round we go till we go weeeee!</p>

[Ijiamee]

<p>In addition to placing a time frame on broker sales I think another positive move would be to place a broker fee on items placed. I think I saw someone mention this in another thread. </p><p>People are less likely to throw an item up for 5p, that isn't worth it, when they are being charged 50g to do so. I'd be hesitant to implement an item limit, but it could help bring some of the prices down to a reasonable level.</p><p>And Catsy, thanks for the great posts. You've got a good outlook on this, and have obviously pwned, seeing as your posts have been relegated to "fancy debating comments". <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Korpo]

<cite>Ijiamee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>Korpo wrote:</b></p><p><b>If they aren't that rare, what's stopping you from going out and digging one out of the ground yourself?</b></p><p>-----</p><p> I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you aren't a total jack [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Re read my post and tell me where I said I couldn't "dig one out of the ground". I didn't. What I said was: "The arbitrarily high prices being applied to so called ‘rare' collectibles is doo doo."</p><p>Do you disagree with that statement? If so, please explain why. </p><p>Explain why a leaf on the AH, along with 45 of the same leaves, goes for 1pat when the reward is 15% aa xp and a level 35 necklace with less than 20 attribute points; while all the other leaves in the collection go for under a gold. I'll expalin it for ya, arbitraty prices pulled right out of someone's [I cannot control my vocabulary] and then being applied to an item. Here's a clue, if there are 3 pages full after a search for an item on the AH, that item is neither rare, nor in high demand. If it was either, there wouldn't be 3 pages worth of the item on the AH. That's just common sense.</p><p>And I didn't say that items were being hoarded, or that I can't get a leaf cause they're all over-priced on the AH, I never even alluded to that. I said "The arbitrarily high prices being applied to so called ‘rare' collectibles is doo doo." And I'm right.</p></blockquote> So your argument isn't that you can't find one, but that you're too lazy to find one, or too cheap to pay what others value their shineys at? Good one there. Sellers have every right to price things at whatever price they feel like, and buyers have every right to either purchase the item at that price, haggle for a lower price, or not buy the item. An example: I personally don't think a Ferrari is all that nifty, and there's no way I value it at $350k or whatever one costs. Ferraris aren't that rare, there's a dealership full of them on the other side of town and hundreds of them on the streets and in the garages around town. They certainly don't cost 20x as much to make as a Civic, and yet they cost 20x as much. Do I stand in front of the dealership complaining about how it's doo doo that I don't want to pay the price of those shiny cars, or do I accept the fact that the price tag they put on one and the value I put on one don't match up? I accept it, because I don't have a sense of entitlement leading me to think that things should be this way or things should be that way. In other words, I accept things as they are instead of throwing a tantrum and stomping my feet to try to get my way.

[Gnevil]

<p>OMG again I have to say ....</p><p>If you don't like the prices for xxxxx (insert item name here) don't freaking buy them.  Coming here and whining about the prices on the broker for any item at all is silly in the extreme.</p><p>I want my candy, the soda pop and the ice cream with cake tooo and can you deliver that to me right here where I stand.</p><p>I understand your frustration on broker prices, I often find myself laughing about the prices myself, but it's merely a time investment.  Nothing is requiring you to get those collections done, it will not hinder your ability to get to max level, max aa.</p><p>They are high because the population deems them as valuable, economics plain and simple.  You are mad because you don't want to spend your hard earned plat on an item to finish a collection to give you instant reward of aa xp and some regular xp if you haven't maxed already and an item for your house or to use or sell. </p><p>It's really that simple.....  don't like the prices, don't buy the items.  Go out into the land and forage them for yourself, price them at half the price of the lowest price on the broker, sit back and watch how fast that sells.  Probably about 30 seconds after you place it on the broker as there are a ton of peeps that run a second account that is logged into the broker constantly playing the market.</p><p>This is a game driven by the players... don't like it?  don't partake.</p><p>Sorry if this comes off as harsh but this is no different then saying you should have the same gear and access as hardcore raiders.  Not true you don't put in the time and effort you don't get the rewards.  </p>

[Ijiamee]

<cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ijiamee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>Korpo wrote:</b></p><p><b>If they aren't that rare, what's stopping you from going out and digging one out of the ground yourself?</b></p><p>-----</p><p> I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you aren't a total jack [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Re read my post and tell me where I said I couldn't "dig one out of the ground". I didn't. What I said was: "The arbitrarily high prices being applied to so called ‘rare' collectibles is doo doo."</p><p>Do you disagree with that statement? If so, please explain why. </p><p>Explain why a leaf on the AH, along with 45 of the same leaves, goes for 1pat when the reward is 15% aa xp and a level 35 necklace with less than 20 attribute points; while all the other leaves in the collection go for under a gold. I'll expalin it for ya, arbitraty prices pulled right out of someone's [I cannot control my vocabulary] and then being applied to an item. Here's a clue, if there are 3 pages full after a search for an item on the AH, that item is neither rare, nor in high demand. If it was either, there wouldn't be 3 pages worth of the item on the AH. That's just common sense.</p><p>And I didn't say that items were being hoarded, or that I can't get a leaf cause they're all over-priced on the AH, I never even alluded to that. I said "The arbitrarily high prices being applied to so called ‘rare' collectibles is doo doo." And I'm right.</p></blockquote> So your argument isn't that you can't find one, but that you're too lazy to find one, or too cheap to pay what others value their shineys at? Good one there. Sellers have every right to price things at whatever price they feel like, and buyers have every right to either purchase the item at that price, haggle for a lower price, or not buy the item. An example: I personally don't think a Ferrari is all that nifty, and there's no way I value it at $350k or whatever one costs. Ferraris aren't that rare, there's a dealership full of them on the other side of town and hundreds of them on the streets and in the garages around town. They certainly don't cost 20x as much to make as a Civic, and yet they cost 20x as much. Do I stand in front of the dealership complaining about how it's doo doo that I don't want to pay the price of those shiny cars, or do I accept the fact that the price tag they put on one and the value I put on one don't match up? I accept it, because I don't have a sense of entitlement leading me to think that things should be this way or things should be that way. In other words, I accept things as they are instead of throwing a tantrum and stomping my feet to try to get my way. </blockquote><p>You must be under the misguided impression I want to have some sort of interaction with you on this forum. Don't flatter yourself.</p><p>/Forgets who he was just talking at...</p><p>Anyway, as I've said before, my suggestion is to have a limit on the time allowed for sales on the AH and for a broker tax applied to all sales.</p><p>(The above was stated without an exclamation point, a frown emote, or the stomping of feet)</p>

[Ijiamee]

<cite>Gnevil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OMG again I have to say ....</p><p>If you don't like the prices for xxxxx (insert item name here) don't freaking buy them.  Coming here and whining about the prices on the broker for any item at all is silly in the extreme.</p><p>I want my candy, the soda pop and the ice cream with cake tooo and can you deliver that to me right here where I stand.</p><p>I understand your frustration on broker prices, I often find myself laughing about the prices myself, but it's merely a time investment.  Nothing is requiring you to get those collections done, it will not hinder your ability to get to max level, max aa.</p><p>They are high because the population deems them as valuable, economics plain and simple.  You are mad because you don't want to spend your hard earned plat on an item to finish a collection to give you instant reward of aa xp and some regular xp if you haven't maxed already and an item for your house or to use or sell. </p><p>It's really that simple.....  don't like the prices, don't buy the items.  Go out into the land and forage them for yourself, price them at half the price of the lowest price on the broker, sit back and watch how fast that sells.  Probably about 30 seconds after you place it on the broker as there are a ton of peeps that run a second account that is logged into the broker constantly playing the market.</p><p>This is a game driven by the players... don't like it?  don't partake.</p><p>Sorry if this comes off as harsh but this is no different then saying you should have the same gear and access as hardcore raiders.  Not true you don't put in the time and effort you don't get the rewards.  </p></blockquote><p>/sigh</p><p>Anyway, as I've said before, my suggestion is to have a limit on the time allowed for sales on the AH and for a broker tax applied to all sales.</p><p>(The above was stated without an exclamation point, a frown emote, or the stomping of feet)</p>

[TerriBlades]

<p>Ijiamee... get a clue... First and foremost, about which game you are playing. Try and realize for a second here you are playing EQ2 and not WoW. You can start doing that by refering to the broker as just that, A <b>broker</b>, not an Auction House. Second, the ideas you mentioned... straight from WoW. Grats on trying to turn this game into something else.</p><p>Anytime anyone comes here and complains about "XXX" prices on the broker, I get a laugh. Thank god, players can set the market value of their stuff. Thank good some lowbie hack that cant seem to pony up the coin for "XXX" doesnt have total market control. Its real simple see, if ppl wanna list this stuff, be it collections or other silly items for prices that seem to high for you, DONT BUY THEM! There is never a need for someone to come here complaining about it. </p><p>One of the key things you are missing here, and that makes all the difference between the way EQ2s broker system works, and the way WoWs AH works is that when you list an item in EQ2, thats the going price, unless you make contact with the seller to haggle the price. In WoW, its truely an acution. You put something up for a sell price, and players BID up the price, hence of course the time limit on the item being sold. Im pretty sure that if you changed it, you would be right back here complaining that ppl are now "Bidding" too much for the same "rare" collections. Personally, I feel that each one has there strong points. In EQ2, ppl will generally price an item, and if it doesnt sell, they'll lower the price until it does. Some ppl just dont care, and place it up there for whatever and leave it to rot. To each his own. Thats really the beauty of the system, there is usually someone else with the same item willing to undercut the next guy. When that happens, the market price of the item starts to fall. However, if ppl are buying it at 1p, guess what, thats pretty much where its going to stop. I harvested a gold dwarven stein the other day, listed it for 1p56g... sold within a day. Seems the system works just fine to me.</p>

[StarryEyedElf]

While the thread started out okay, I gotta admit, there is some pretty heavy baiting and trolling going on on pages 2 and 3. If you cannot post civilly, please don't post at all. This thread is quickly heading for the lock bin because of one or two people. (And yes, mods CAN read edits!)

[Ruut Li]

<p>Yes OP I think Im being pwnd, as usual, here at the eq2 boards. The horror! The shame!!! <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But I guess your not interacting with me either since Im one of those who disagree..interesting tactic lol. Edit: I have noticed that the mom bashing wasnt just a one-time deal. </p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=365900" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...opic_id=365900 </a></p><p>I apologize for encouraging this kind of wow-forum behaviour, ah had I known earlier lol. I assume its common practice to bash moms in wow-forums? </p><p>Back on topic: Introducing a "harmless" advice - system to the market, as suggested, is one step in the wrong direction. When its introduced the "victims" of eq2 will notice that there are sellers ignoring the "warnings", for whatever reason, and the "victims" will have to come to the boards and whine again because they will never be happy. Since the first step has been taken, whats stopping the next step and then the next and next from being introduced due to SoE caving in to the "victims"? The result is that the "harmless" influencing eventually turns into policing the market.</p><p>Personally I have not completed google and blue collections. The few eof rares I find goes to different toons regular collections, so no I dont display them on broker for 5p lol. I dont buy the collectibles I need because I dont like the price. And I still dont want anything to interfere with the free market in eq2. I do not feel the collectibles are monopolized since I can choose to get the shinies myself. </p>

[StarryEyedElf]

Thank you for helping me make up my mind about the fate of this thread. Right after a mod warning about that behavior, I don't think it is a good idea to bait other posters. This thread is closed. <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />