Just Snap Your Fingers -And PvP is Gone [Archive]

Ther

06-05-2007, 08:14 PM

Kyen@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>If they remove xp locking it will just be another nail in the coffin that is eq2 pvp. You think they merged the servers because things are going as planned? They are having trouble populating them because people just pick up this game and expect to "win" w/o knowing thing one about the game itself. </blockquote>You're wrong. It's level locking that's killing PvP servers by chasing off fresh blood. God forbid a new player comes to this game expecting a fair chance and reasonably level playing field. (I'm having this issue right now, trying to get my roommate to drop the worthless cesspool that is WoW, for something that, by all rights, should be universally more appealing for a veteran MMO player.)PvP ought to be about skill more than gear. PvE is just the opposite, as it should be, because you don't have to consider whether or not the mobs are having fun. With players, even the looser needs to have enjoyed themself, to a degree. (Of course it's up to an individual to decide if they're having fun, but the potential needs to be there.)Twinked out gear and full AdeptIII/Masters is not something a new player can just pick up on in a reasonable amount of time. These things should be far less consequential in PvP. The devs had the foresight to give every spell a PvP version, now they need to apply that to make each upgrade considerably less of a boost.What to do about twinked gear, I don't know. But it is no less vital to address. Weakening procs on crafted gear in PvP would be a start.It's so frustrating and infuriating to see such a selfish attitude among these hard-core level lockers. They don't care one bit about the community; all they're interested in is how things effect them. If killing the current state of level locking chases off a few greedy players, we're better off for it.It's one thing to twink yourself out to have a reasonable edge, but god mode should be left to single player games.

CresentBlade

06-05-2007, 08:36 PM

I have snapped my fingers 372 time before I had to stop...servers are still up and so are the forums. Was there a chant or something I was suppose to do also?<img src="/smilies/47941865eb7bbc2a777305b46cc059a2.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Meet in the middle and things work out for everyone. MMO games are always changing and shifting it is their nature. If your not willing to give a little then you will lose it all, better to voice ideas instead of playing the role of dooms day prophet.

Eybietie

06-05-2007, 09:10 PM

<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>lvl locking is cheap, childish, and cowardly. </blockquote> so are you. imo that is of course. to the op : why are you worried? the only concerns the anti-lvl locker have are contradicted and personal opinions. it´s about 5 people complaining because they get owned at t7 by veterans and didn´t suceed in lvl lock. they are just bitter and want more upcomming 62-70 chars without raid/ pvp gear. people saying there isn´t enough pvp out there wether are on the wrong server or just suck. there is lots and lots of t7 pvp going on at everytime. during eu times after server down it´s not loads of it - but there still is pvp if you are looking for it.of course you can hide in town saying there are only raids out in norrath but more player = less raid pvp? lol. everything is fine as it is. let people lock if they want to. i think soe would notice if there is such a huge inbalance comparing the numbers of t7 players and lvl locker....

Eybietie

06-05-2007, 09:13 PM

<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly i like T7 pvp but i rack up 100x more kills solo on my T2 twink vs my 70 know why population and reply value. </blockquote> you´re on venekor - t7 pvp is scheduled and planned as an once per month event.

Derrickr

06-05-2007, 11:43 PM

Are people so petty they would leave if they stopped the level locking? Locking has a much more negative impact than it does posivite.Don't you want to see the population increase and remain healthy? By level locking you're making the newbies quit the game early and can you blame them? For one, they don't stand a chance in most fights. And secondly, they can't afford decent gear because everything is outrageously priced with everything being aimed at the twinks.Basically, it would be a bad business move to allow level locking to continue. We need a steady stream of new people to replace the people who are burned out or bored. Like someone above said, everyone should have fun whether you win or lose. And people who level locking are obviously only thinking about themselves. You have to compromise.

convict

06-05-2007, 11:47 PM

<cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are people so petty they would leave if they stopped the level locking? Locking has a much more negative impact than it does posivite.Don't you want to see the population increase and remain healthy? By level locking you're making the newbies quit the game early and can you blame them? For one, they don't stand a chance in most fights. And secondly, they can't afford decent gear because everything is outrageously priced with everything being aimed at the twinks.Basically, it would be a bad business move to allow level locking to continue. We need a steady stream of new people to replace the people who are burned out or bored. Like someone above said, everyone should have fun whether you win or lose. And people who level locking are obviously only thinking about themselves. You have to compromise.</blockquote> Yes, they are.. They dont want easymode taken away...

azcandace

06-05-2007, 11:53 PM

When did everyone start hating level locking? Ok not everyone but it just seemed to me that it has become increased lately the amount of people who are so against it on pvp. Is it just because it hinders new players or is there some other reason many want it off pvp? I'm just confused as to what its doing to pvp that makes it so horrible?

Scai

06-05-2007, 11:58 PM

Being typically a hardcore pvper and a new EQ2 player, I have to say that level lockers have really put a damper on my enjoyment so far. Hitting 10 and moving onto the wanderlust fair, I was greeted with stealthing lockers just sitting outside the camp, running in to kill me in a few hits then running back barely outside the camp to sit there stealthed again, waiting for me to res and lose immunity. One time I stunned one and ran away, then stealthed and they lost me - that's my biggest pvp story so far.... "so this one time, i like... didn't die... it was sweet" The issue here is that there seems to be some decent rewards for pvpers who get a lot of kills, and an assumption that someone within X levels of another person will have a fair fight. Throw the "within X levels of another person" feature into WoW and you've now fixed wow's world pvp gankfest. However, in EQ2 they've overlooked the fact that level locking basically destroys the idea of having a pvp level spread. It doesn't matter if I'm fighting a level 70 or if I'm fighting a level locker, both are going to take unnoticeable damage from me and I'm going to die in less than a handfull of hits. Is it because the level locker is an awesome player and I'm a newb? My level 11 assassin is 5 hours old, 3 of those hours were dedicated to learning the crafting system and gathering materials, 1 hour was getting to level 10, and the last hour was dedicated to getting ganked while gaining 1 level. Lets realize some things. As a competitor, I want a good fair fight where my skill determines who wins. As a player, I want my character to have the coolest stuff, so nice weapons/armor and more skills / better attributes would be a great thing to have. As a jerk, I want to gank lowbies who I know have absolutely no chance of fighting back but I'll get a kick out of it. I'm all of what I described above. In WoW, I dueled those higher than me, picked fights with people I knew had the advantage, and tried my hardest to find the fights that would put my skills to the test. I also spend countless hours crafting and selling, gouging the auction house so I could have some good quality gear for my level. And finally when all that was done, I would take a 30 minute trip to darkshire and gank the hell out of lowbies. Why did I do that? Cause sometimes I want to be a jerk and it's definitely fun playing godmode. How often did I do it? Not that often and not for a long time... I'd just run in, clear the graveyard of lowbies, and go about my business. Imagine if killing lowbies 30 levels lower than me gave me honor or some other reward. They'd have to bring in the 70s to protect that place 24/7... That's what's happening here. 14s are being rewarded for destroying 10s. Of COURSE they're going to sit there and farm me. I'm a free kill, they get something from killing me more than just a grin, they actually advance their character AND pvp in general is just fun. Plus they'll ultimately fight other lockers and they'll have an enjoyable/difficult fight on the side. This is a good thing because a quality pvp experience requires a healthy population... rewards help sustain the population. Rewards also encourage world pvp, and when done right world pvp can be amazing. This is a bad thing because it may just scare people like me off... people who are going to give you a run for your money if we meet on equal grounds, which will ultimately be the most fun pvp you can have. And here's what needs to be done: a) One solution is to set max amount of AA points you can have depending on your level. Level 10 = max 1 AA point. Level 11 = Max 2 AA points. Etc etc, whatever would be the most balanced. Maybe it should be 2 per level, not sure. b) Instead of deciding who you can fight based on a level spread, base it on a more detailed spread. Factor in weapon rating, armor rating, amount of AA points, level, etc etc. Anything statistical thing that could possibly give you an advantage, factor it in. This will give you a "power rating" that you can both gloat about and strive for. Player 1 may have a power rating of 58 while player 2 could have a power rating of 64. The zone allows players within 10 points of power rating to fight. This sets up an even match statistically and the winner should be determined by skill. They were on the right path putting in the level spread, but fighting godly untouchable level 14s really makes me want to roll PvE for the first time in any mmo i've ever played. Sorry for the long rant but this game is so fun that this whole level locking thing is really disturbing me.

CresentBlade

06-06-2007, 12:03 AM

<cite>Scai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Being typically a hardcore pvper and a new EQ2 player, I have to say that level lockers have really put a damper on my enjoyment so far. Hitting 10 and moving onto the wanderlust fair, I was greeted with stealthing lockers just sitting outside the camp, running in to kill me in a few hits then running back barely outside the camp to sit there stealthed again, waiting for me to res and lose immunity. One time I stunned one and ran away, then stealthed and they lost me - that's my biggest pvp story so far.... "so this one time, i like... didn't die... it was sweet" The issue here is that there seems to be some decent rewards for pvpers who get a lot of kills, and an assumption that someone within X levels of another person will have a fair fight. Throw the "within X levels of another person" feature into WoW and you've now fixed wow's world pvp gankfest. However, in EQ2 they've overlooked the fact that level locking basically destroys the idea of having a pvp level spread. It doesn't matter if I'm fighting a level 70 or if I'm fighting a level locker, both are going to take unnoticeable damage from me and I'm going to die in less than a handfull of hits. Is it because the level locker is an awesome player and I'm a newb? My level 11 assassin is 5 hours old, 3 of those hours were dedicated to learning the crafting system and gathering materials, 1 hour was getting to level 10, and the last hour was dedicated to getting ganked while gaining 1 level. Lets realize some things. As a competitor, I want a good fair fight where my skill determines who wins. As a player, I want my character to have the coolest stuff, so nice weapons/armor and more skills / better attributes would be a great thing to have. As a jerk, I want to gank lowbies who I know have absolutely no chance of fighting back but I'll get a kick out of it. I'm all of what I described above. In WoW, I dueled those higher than me, picked fights with people I knew had the advantage, and tried my hardest to find the fights that would put my skills to the test. I also spend countless hours crafting and selling, gouging the auction house so I could have some good quality gear for my level. And finally when all that was done, I would take a 30 minute trip to darkshire and gank the hell out of lowbies. Why did I do that? Cause sometimes I want to be a jerk and it's definitely fun playing godmode. How often did I do it? Not that often and not for a long time... I'd just run in, clear the graveyard of lowbies, and go about my business. Imagine if killing lowbies 30 levels lower than me gave me honor or some other reward. They'd have to bring in the 70s to protect that place 24/7... That's what's happening here. 14s are being rewarded for destroying 10s. Of COURSE they're going to sit there and farm me. I'm a free kill, they get something from killing me more than just a grin, they actually advance their character AND pvp in general is just fun. Plus they'll ultimately fight other lockers and they'll have an enjoyable/difficult fight on the side. This is a good thing because a quality pvp experience requires a healthy population... rewards help sustain the population. Rewards also encourage world pvp, and when done right world pvp can be amazing. This is a bad thing because it may just scare people like me off... people who are going to give you a run for your money if we meet on equal grounds, which will ultimately be the most fun pvp you can have. And here's what needs to be done: a) One solution is to set max amount of AA points you can have depending on your level. Level 10 = max 1 AA point. Level 11 = Max 2 AA points. Etc etc, whatever would be the most balanced. Maybe it should be 2 per level, not sure. b) Instead of deciding who you can fight based on a level spread, base it on a more detailed spread. Factor in weapon rating, armor rating, amount of AA points, level, etc etc. Anything statistical thing that could possibly give you an advantage, factor it in. This will give you a "power rating" that you can both gloat about and strive for. Player 1 may have a power rating of 58 while player 2 could have a power rating of 64. The zone allows players within 10 points of power rating to fight. This sets up an even match statistically and the winner should be determined by skill. They were on the right path putting in the level spread, but fighting godly untouchable level 14s really makes me want to roll PvE for the first time in any mmo i've ever played. Sorry for the long rant but this game is so fun that this whole level locking thing is really disturbing me. </blockquote>Very well written and to the point<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

HerbertWalker

06-06-2007, 12:06 AM

Your point "b" is almost one year old, nothing new but thanks. And yes I agree with it. Your power rating should not be based on level alone. Along with those things you mentioned, the power rating should and must include CLASS. The classes are not balanced solo, so unless you give guardians an advantage, you have the same problem. Bigger Problem: It is not possible to do accurately enough, and so that power rating would have serious loopholes just like we have now.Your point "a" does not award character achievement enough. The game should promote and allow the players to achieve amazing power - power to be more uber than anyone else on the server. I don't want us all to be capped out. See my sig.

Scai

06-06-2007, 12:35 AM

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your point "b" is almost one year old, nothing new but thanks. And yes I agree with it. Your power rating should not be based on level alone. Along with those things you mentioned, the power rating should and must include CLASS. The classes are not balanced solo, so unless you give guardians an advantage, you have the same problem. Bigger Problem: It is not possible to do accurately enough, and so that power rating would have serious loopholes just like we have now.Your point "a" does not award character achievement enough. The game should promote and allow the players to achieve amazing power - power to be more uber than anyone else on the server. I don't want us all to be capped out. See my sig.</blockquote>I agree, you should be able to achieve amazing power. You should also only be able to fight other people of amazing power. The system tries to do just that by setting a level spread, so it's obvious that the route they intended to go in was one of "people should only be able to start fights with people who are close statistically." Levels alone are not a good gauge of whether the other player is close statistically. They need to factor in other things, such as the things I mentioned. They do not need to factor in class. If guardians have a difficult time in 1v1 pvp, they should either fix guardians or people can realize that guardians are more group oriented. A holy priest in wow = easy solo kill for just about anything, but that doesn't stop people from rolling holy priests. Holy priests are also killer to have in group pvp. Things can be balanced in other ways than just 1v1. 5 of me couldn't have taken out 1 lvl 14 locker in today's gankings. That's a problem. The level spreads should be such that those who are 10 power levels above you con red. 10 levels of difference should be a very difficult fight, but it should be a doable fight given the right personal skills. Weapons, armor, aa points, stats... all of that doesn't matter when you create power levels, because those are what determine the spread. As for point "a" not awarding characters enough, I was giving an example, not a definite # of points. Limiting it will help prevent people within the level spread from becoming too powerful, thus ruining the level spread alltogether. And as for your sig... you could still do that with point "b", but you would be fighting other people who did that too. Don't you want a fair fight?

Koltr

06-06-2007, 02:18 AM

Sounds like a plan...

orehn

06-06-2007, 03:52 AM

Scai, If you're on Nagafen, look me up-I'll help out however I can. If nothing else; I've got some friends who might still be in your range to group up with. There is safety in numbers, trust me.

Novusod

06-06-2007, 05:24 AM

Miny@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>When did everyone start hating level locking? Ok not everyone but it just seemed to me that it has become increased lately the amount of people who are so against it on pvp. Is it just because it hinders new players or is there some other reason many want it off pvp? I'm just confused as to what its doing to pvp that makes it so horrible?</blockquote>Well this recent lets' all hate on level lockers fad started with the last GU when Neriak went live and everyone got extra charactor slots. With that a bunch of PvE players decided to role alts on the PvP servers for fun. When the mass gankings started in darklight woods they come running to the forums having an arm waving feak out about level lockers. Then it kind of snowballed from there and these threads took on a life of their own. In the past the complainers would trickle in one at a time and be summarally dismissed (forum ganked) by the vetran posters here.

CresentBlade

06-06-2007, 06:42 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Miny@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>When did everyone start hating level locking? Ok not everyone but it just seemed to me that it has become increased lately the amount of people who are so against it on pvp. Is it just because it hinders new players or is there some other reason many want it off pvp? I'm just confused as to what its doing to pvp that makes it so horrible?</blockquote>Well this recent lets' all hate on level lockers fad started with the last GU when Neriak went live and everyone got extra charactor slots. With that a bunch of PvE players decided to role alts on the PvP servers for fun. When the mass gankings started in darklight woods they come running to the forums having an arm waving feak out about level lockers. Then it kind of snowballed from there and these threads took on a life of their own. In the past the complainers would trickle in one at a time and be summarally dismissed (forum ganked) by the vetran posters here. </blockquote>So you want to run off the new players? We finally get a good infusion of fresh meat, I think thats a wonderful thing. Have you stoped to think since there are so many people speaking out about low level locking, that there might be a problem with it?Mentoring abused /fixedOut of ranged healing abused /fixedZone hopping abused /fixedEvac abused /fixedDisable Exp abused .....hmmmm I wonder what will happen.

Image_Vain

06-06-2007, 06:51 AM

There needs to be places that solo players and groups alike can go, so they can lvl from 1-70 in peace. No, not PVE servers, just zones without pvp.

06-06-2007, 07:40 AM

safe zones are for the weak. Maybe they should just make a hardcore server with no safe zones, permadeath, and all item loot. yeah.

Armawk

06-06-2007, 07:41 AM

HerbertWalker wrote: <blockquote> the power rating should and must include CLASS. The classes are not balanced solo, so unless you give guardians an advantage, you have the same problem. </blockquote> Lol I wonder how much advantage wizards would get if you ran the scheme..

Image_Vain

06-06-2007, 08:18 AM

Baru@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>safe zones are for the weak. Maybe they should just make a hardcore server with no safe zones, permadeath, and all item loot. yeah. </blockquote> I hope your kidding.

rvbarton

06-06-2007, 09:55 AM

if you don't like level lockers, grind out a few levels, and then they cannot bother you. simple solution.just my 2 cents.

The_Real_Ohno

06-06-2007, 10:00 AM

<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>There needs to be places that solo players and groups alike can go, so they can lvl from 1-70 in peace. No, not PVE servers, just zones without pvp. </blockquote> This is a PvP server, if u want safe zones to lvl, there are tons of PvE servers. There should never be safe zones on PvP servers that are away from the Citys.

Wytie

06-06-2007, 10:07 AM

Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>There needs to be places that solo players and groups alike can go, so they can lvl from 1-70 in peace. No, not PVE servers, just zones without pvp. </blockquote> This is a PvP server, if u want safe zones to lvl, there are tons of PvE servers. There should never be safe zones on PvP servers that are away from the Citys. </blockquote> agreed & perma imunity is BS too 30 sec max no reason, if you need a break after dieing then simply dont revive [Removed for Content] this game is so carebear cause its full of a bunch of sissys IMO

Magnis

06-06-2007, 10:41 AM

Hey heres a thought; there is already a system that calculates how strong a monster is a specific level. Why don't devs just put a system that calculates how strong a players are with gear/spells/CA. If a overpowered player fights a newb then he would lose status. It could also go with the title rules. A overpowered player would only gain status if fighting a player that has been categorizes at his own potential. And only gain status if newb initiated the battle.Im sure there is a flaw in this suggestion, but im sure it would still alow players twink out, and clessen the ganking a bit.

Wytie

06-06-2007, 10:47 AM

Magnis@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Hey heres a thought; there is already a system that calculates how strong a monster is a specific level. Why don't devs just put a system that calculates how strong a players are with gear/spells/CA. If a overpowered player fights a newb then he would lose status. It could also go with the title rules. A overpowered player would only gain status if fighting a player that has been categorizes at his own potential. And only gain status if newb initiated the battle.Im sure there is a flaw in this suggestion, but im sure it would still alow players twink out, and clessen the ganking a bit.</blockquote> So what your saying is the stronger a players gets the less targets he has <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Magnis

06-06-2007, 10:55 AM

<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Magnis@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Hey heres a thought; there is already a system that calculates how strong a monster is a specific level. Why don't devs just put a system that calculates how strong a players are with gear/spells/CA. If a overpowered player fights a newb then he would lose status. It could also go with the title rules. A overpowered player would only gain status if fighting a player that has been categorizes at his own potential. And only gain status if newb initiated the battle.Im sure there is a flaw in this suggestion, but im sure it would still alow players twink out, and clessen the ganking a bit.</blockquote> So what your saying is the stronger a players gets the less targets he has <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>There have been people out there that have been asking for something like this. Have have the gankers lose something for ganking.

Armawk

06-06-2007, 11:03 AM

I have a great idea. Use some complicated calculation of strength.. then you LOSE fame/infamy whatever when you kill people much much weaker than you.or just use fame.. right now you can get fame from one rank below you, get none otherwise. Change it so you get fame from one rank, nothing from the next, and LOSE fame for killing people 2 or more ranks below.This is after all very logical. You are a titled hero, and killing peons isnt going to make you look tougher its going to make you look like an insecure jerk.some kind of weighting for multiple engagement would be in order of course.. so our hero killing 4 people lower than you at once still is heroic. killing one, or worse ganking in a group, is bad for your rep and title.

Harbringer Doom

06-06-2007, 11:38 AM

I can't believe how many people complain about being killed by someone more powerful than them. That's all a "twink" boils down to. Someone who has taken the time to become as powerful as they can (fabled gear, masters, AA, etc.) Remember, we all started with nothing. I have a level-locked guardian rolled so I can play with my same group of guildies whenever we all end up on line together. We don't have to worry about calculating who can group with who, or any mentoring BS. Now, of course if you're level locked, your gear is going to get consistently better, and you're going to find masters, you're going to gain AA's and you're going to get better at your class. Its inevitable. I'm not going to apologize for taking the time to do that on one of my toons. I've played tier 7, I still play tier 7 from time to time, there's no fun in trying to improve my toons gear, it an instance grind, and the pvp is few and far between. I have much more fun on my Guard, arguably one of the hardest PvP classes. Again, lets remember that everyone starts on the server with the same amount of stuff: zero. I took the time to levelemy 70, got him to a place where I'm happy with him, and play him when I want. But that level 70 toon didn't start out "twinked", and he faced the same trials and tribulations that everyone else had to face. This was even back in the day when the zone ranges were much larger, and you could get one shotted by 70s all day. So don't tell me about people being more powerful than you. In my day, we didn't come here weeping about how we were getting slaughtered by someone 20 levels higher, we understood that this is a PVP server, and some of my deaths are going to be humbling. We loved it! I cannot fathom why people WOULDN'T want the danger of being rolled by twinks, or reds, or other toons much more powerful than you. Its like going on a PvE raid and complaining that Venekor is twinked. "I don't know what the hell kind of scale armor Venekor is wearing, or how many AAs he has, but that bastage is a twink!" Everyone, I would guess, wants challenge in their PvE. Do you really want to struggle to end game content and then take down raid mobs without barely a fight? Well, then why don't you want those Epic x 2 PvP players running around too. Everyone, even the level locked twinks, face players more powerful than them. Actually, you know what level doesn't? Level 70s. At level 70, I would guess, you're most likely to NOT have to face someone who is considerably more powerful than you. Chew on that a moment.... Do me a favor, quit sucking the challenge (no matter what its form) out of the game. With all that said, however, I am not opposed to limiting the types of horses people can get (a 20 on a Nightmare is a little much) or the number of AA people can get at a certain levels (my pocket swashy has about 38 AA at level 27, which is a little crazy), but dictating the gear people can get, or nerfing said gear, or removing level locking altogether would just be catering to the people who can't understand why they have to die in PvP. Why god? WHY?!? I'm tired of the squeaky wheel getting the grease, because the squeaky wheel always seems to want everything handed to him, and wants everything to be made ridiculously easier.

Bloodfa

06-06-2007, 12:18 PM

If they were to disable level-locking until, say, level 20, what's the worst possible thing that could happen? Aside from twinks having to upgrade their gear? If 'you' (and by 'you, I mean nobody in particular) are forced to level up a bit, so are the other level-lockers that you would normally be fighting, and wouldn't that even out within a week? The only ones getting an easier time out of it would be the newbies; anybody else can level right out of the danger zone, and so could the fresh players to some degree. Level 10 or 12 fresh meat can't be too well geared, but at 16 or so they might* be able to survive. They'll have some better spells & CA's, better gear, and might actually bring in more players. Biggest downside would be that lockers need to get a few higher level masters. Unless 'you' (again, nobody in particular) are just enjoying ganking lowbies that don't stand a chance, I fail to see much of a downside.Me, I just leveled my lowbie alts that I actually take out now & again out of 'tempting target' range, so this solution would just make things worse for my lowbie alts, but hey, I can pop a few levels up fairly quickly on a lowbie. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Either way, we'll see what happens. * By 'might' I mean probably not, but some chance beats no chance.

Wytie

06-06-2007, 12:31 PM

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>If they were to disable level-locking until, say, level 20, what's the worst possible thing that could happen? Aside from twinks having to upgrade their gear? If 'you' (and by 'you, I mean nobody in particular) are forced to level up a bit, so are the other level-lockers that you would normally be fighting, and wouldn't that even out within a week? The only ones getting an easier time out of it would be the newbies; anybody else can level right out of the danger zone, and so could the fresh players to some degree. Level 10 or 12 fresh meat can't be too well geared, but at 16 or so they might* be able to survive. They'll have some better spells & CA's, better gear, and might actually bring in more players. Biggest downside would be that lockers need to get a few higher level masters. Unless 'you' (again, nobody in particular) are just enjoying ganking lowbies that don't stand a chance, I fail to see much of a downside.Me, I just leveled my lowbie alts that I actually take out now & again out of 'tempting target' range, so this solution would just make things worse for my lowbie alts, but hey, I can pop a few levels up fairly quickly on a lowbie. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Either way, we'll see what happens. * By 'might' I mean probably not, but some chance beats no chance.</blockquote>I could deal with it but your wrong about the 16's as they couldnt be targeted till 20 so then 20 would be the bottom of the barrel and all the twinks would just lock at 24 and 25 and still own the 20's just as bad just would shift things up a tier.The only down side woul dbe to scouts they woul dloose there suprize due to totams and that also the evac Tier these are the reasonsa people like to lock in T2 no totams and no evac for the most part no other tier can you get that....

Bloodfa

06-06-2007, 01:06 PM

Yep, 16's would be fair game, but they'd have their SoWs and evacs. 22 would be the next best level-lock, though, freeing up the 16's and 17's. If somebody gets to that point and still hasn't made any acquaintances in the game, and still hasn't figured out how to ask for a helping hand, well, then yeah, it would be time to take the floaties off and let Darwin make his choices. Scouts losing their edge, I wouldn't see that as a bad thing. Mine's 63, so it doesn't apply to me (insert evil laugh here). That, and my woodworker might make some serious coin on totems. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Scai

06-06-2007, 03:48 PM

Tesar@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>I can't believe how many people complain about being killed by someone more powerful than them. That's all a "twink" boils down to. Someone who has taken the time to become as powerful as they can (fabled gear, masters, AA, etc.) Remember, we all started with nothing. I have a level-locked guardian rolled so I can play with my same group of guildies whenever we all end up on line together. We don't have to worry about calculating who can group with who, or any mentoring BS. Now, of course if you're level locked, your gear is going to get consistently better, and you're going to find masters, you're going to gain AA's and you're going to get better at your class. Its inevitable. I'm not going to apologize for taking the time to do that on one of my toons. I've played tier 7, I still play tier 7 from time to time, there's no fun in trying to improve my toons gear, it an instance grind, and the pvp is few and far between. I have much more fun on my Guard, arguably one of the hardest PvP classes. Again, lets remember that everyone starts on the server with the same amount of stuff: zero. I took the time to levelemy 70, got him to a place where I'm happy with him, and play him when I want. But that level 70 toon didn't start out "twinked", and he faced the same trials and tribulations that everyone else had to face. This was even back in the day when the zone ranges were much larger, and you could get one shotted by 70s all day. So don't tell me about people being more powerful than you. In my day, we didn't come here weeping about how we were getting slaughtered by someone 20 levels higher, we understood that this is a PVP server, and some of my deaths are going to be humbling. We loved it! I cannot fathom why people WOULDN'T want the danger of being rolled by twinks, or reds, or other toons much more powerful than you. Its like going on a PvE raid and complaining that Venekor is twinked. "I don't know what the hell kind of scale armor Venekor is wearing, or how many AAs he has, but that bastage is a twink!" Everyone, I would guess, wants challenge in their PvE. Do you really want to struggle to end game content and then take down raid mobs without barely a fight? Well, then why don't you want those Epic x 2 PvP players running around too. Everyone, even the level locked twinks, face players more powerful than them. Actually, you know what level doesn't? Level 70s. At level 70, I would guess, you're most likely to NOT have to face someone who is considerably more powerful than you. Chew on that a moment.... Do me a favor, quit sucking the challenge (no matter what its form) out of the game. With all that said, however, I am not opposed to limiting the types of horses people can get (a 20 on a Nightmare is a little much) or the number of AA people can get at a certain levels (my pocket swashy has about 38 AA at level 27, which is a little crazy), but dictating the gear people can get, or nerfing said gear, or removing level locking altogether would just be catering to the people who can't understand why they have to die in PvP. Why god? WHY?!? I'm tired of the squeaky wheel getting the grease, because the squeaky wheel always seems to want everything handed to him, and wants everything to be made ridiculously easier. </blockquote> you're just so full of nonsense that you don't realize what you're saying. <blockquote>I can't believe how many people complain about being killed by someone more powerful than them. That's all a "twink" boils down to. Someone who has taken the time to become as powerful as they can (fabled gear, masters, AA, etc.) Remember, we all started with nothing. </blockquote>The issue here is the game was designed around the idea that the only people who should be able to attack you are people within your range statistically (level based). Twinking has always been in any game where you're able to become better statistically by upgrading things that your level can use, thus making you better than anyone else your level. Twinking often shows the person's dedication to getting better stuff sooner. The problem here is level locking to twink in EQ2 makes you a 2 shotting god and that's only fun for one side of the fight. <blockquote>Now, of course if you're level locked, your gear is going to get consistently better, and you're going to find masters, you're going to gain AA's and you're going to get better at your class. Its inevitable. </blockquote>and that's exactly the problem here. Proposed level spread to prevent imbalanced PvP is destroyed by level lock twinking. It's not "give me a bit of an advantage" twinking, it's "make me a god so I can camp lowbies all day epeen++". <blockquote>In my day, we didn't come here weeping about how we were getting slaughtered by someone 20 levels higher, we understood that this is a PVP server, and some of my deaths are going to be humbling. We loved it! </blockquote>Ever play wow? 70s can attack 20s all day if they find them in a contested territory. Ya know what? 70s don't bother. Neither do twinks. Occasionally it happens, hell I do it from time to time and it's always fun, but it doesn't happen that often. I've seen more higher levels pass me in wow doing nothing than I bet I'll ever see in EQ2. Why don't they just drop off their mount and kill me? Sometimes they do, but more often than not they just keep going because they get nothing for killing me. I'm grey to them, they get no honor and it would be a big waste of their time. The problem here is that level 14s can kill level 10s that have absolutely no chance (literally) and get rewarded for it. Most people who roll PvP servers understand that they will get ganked, many times, and they're gunna be cool with that. I didn't roll PvP with the understanding that GODS will camp me IN the wanderlust fair OVER and OVER, and that if I got the jump on one of these gods, they would stand there and question what I was doing, no dent in their health, and strike me down we 3 hits. This isn't an exaggeration, this is a bunch of kids needing a power trip and threatening to leave if their power trip is taken away. <blockquote>I cannot fathom why people WOULDN'T want the danger of being rolled by twinks, or reds, or other toons much more powerful than you. Its like going on a PvE raid and complaining that Venekor is twinked. "I don't know what the hell kind of scale armor Venekor is wearing, or how many AAs he has, but that bastage is a twink!" </blockquote>My gf and I would consistently kill twinks who thought they were the [Removed for Content] in wow with our own skill. That's just not going to happen vs level lockers. They're statistically too overpowered for any skill to compensate. If venekor stormed the wanderlust fair and obliterated everyone there with no chance of him dieing, he'd he nerfed, or people would quit. You're next. <blockquote>Everyone, I would guess, wants challenge in their PvE. Do you really want to struggle to end game content and then take down raid mobs without barely a fight? Well, then why don't you want those Epic x 2 PvP players running around too. Everyone, even the level locked twinks, face players more powerful than them. </blockquote>There is no fight, it's just death for the non-lockers. Do you understand this point? Are you really thinking about it and trying to comprehend it? There - Is - No - Fight. There is only death by 3 shotting the lowbie and the lowbie has no chance. The locker can afk for 30 seconds and my character might be able to dish out enough damage, maybe, but I doubt it. The locker can auto attack and run to make a sandwich and I wouldn't win. Killing a lowbie as a level locker takes as much skill as masturbation. Get over yourself. <blockquote>I'm tired of the squeaky wheel getting the grease, because the squeaky wheel always seems to want everything handed to him, and wants everything to be made ridiculously easier. </blockquote>God forbid we non level lockers be able to possibly kill you. Fear our whining as you're going to lose god mode eventually, and then we'll hear you whine when you're faced with having to try killing someone with your own skill (or lack there of).

CresentBlade

06-06-2007, 03:52 PM

Scai for president!!<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Armawk

06-06-2007, 04:10 PM

lol well well said.

Ridyen

06-06-2007, 05:01 PM

The whole level locking issue seem to be so overblown. Everyone has the option to level lock. To slow down their level advancement to acquire better gear, better spells, and AA before moving up to the next tier is a choice. A choice provided by Sony. The other choice is to go hide somewhere and grind away on XP to level your character to get to level 70 where you are now forced to acquire better gears, better spells, and AA because if you don't those level 70s with 100AA, all PVP gear, and master spells will gank you just the same.From my perspective there is a huge difference between "TWINKING" and "LEVEL LOCKING". IMHO twinking is when you utilize funds earned by a high level character to purchase spells and equipment for a low level character. This is something not everyone can do. This gives the twinker a distinct advantage. To have a level 10 character with all adept 3s or master spells and the best gear you can buy is much more dangerous than a level locked level 10 with a couple of AAs.To be clear I have done both paths. I have a level 70 with decent gear and I have an "untwinked" level locked 33 that's can stand toe-to-toe with most folks during PVP. If Sony needs to fix something it's the exploits such as Window Dragging or other hacks that allow characters to run at the speed of sound while in combat. These type of bugs are much more likely to cause me to leave EQ2 than level locking.

Harbringer Doom

06-06-2007, 07:12 PM

<cite>Scai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tesar@Venekor wrote: God forbid we non level lockers be able to possibly kill you. Fear our whining as you're going to lose god mode eventually, and then we'll hear you whine when you're faced with having to try killing someone with your own skill (or lack there of). </blockquote> If I'm full of nonsense, did you really need to pound out a 3 page reply to every sentence I wrote? You're a crybaby jackhole who clearly can't handle being killed. There. Did I prove how tough I am too? Am I cool now too? Look, I have no problem discussing these points if you, or anyone else is interested, but when someone opens with an attack, it just tells me they want to be the forum tough guy, shout their opinion over anyone else's voice, and aren't really interested in a "discussion" on the matter. Does that adequately sum you up? You did read the part where I said I was a Guardian, right? God mode? Please. It seems to me that everyone can work to become better than they are. Everyone has the same chance to make their character as good as s/he can be. You and your supporters seem to want more handed directly to you, and less work to be done to get it. Explain to me, exactly, in your rabid anti-level-locking frenzy, what is preventing you from competing with those you complain about? Another thing with regards to your statement above, the difference between us, I'm certain, is no matter what manner they change the rules, level locking or otherwise, I will accept the rules and have fun. You, you will still be here pounding out another complaint, looking for a forum fight, and insulting people without reason. Have fun with that!

holypaladin28

06-06-2007, 07:26 PM

easy way to fix lvl lockers that gank because some people do lock to stay close woth friends not the twinks they just suck1: xp debt when you get xp debt you get aa debt so when they just keep dying to get 50 percent xp debt they also have 50 percent AA debt. aa is to easy to get anyhow2: either on of these work. A while locked you get no pvp credit no status no faction no infamyB: while you are locked you get pvp credit but yopu also get credit for xp for pvp kills. either solution would work fine3: whikl locked you get zero AA for anything you do thats all you need add those three options and its fixed

Scai

06-06-2007, 08:33 PM

<cite>Ridyen65 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone has the option to level lock. </blockquote>Everyone also has the option to download hacks. Doesn't mean it should happen. Oh, but hacks are against the rules you would say? Sure, and level lockers tend to attack guards over and over to get an xp deficits. I doubt the developers had that in mind when designing the level locking system. Sounds like an exploit to me. But hey, I'm not here to whine about level lockers cheating/exploiting. I would like to help people realize that the PvP rule set gives each zone a certain level spread. This implies that the developers care about who attacks who, and with levels being the preventing factor, it implies that they want the people that are attacking other players to be somewhat close statistically. What they likely overlooked is the fact that a level 14 can greatly outclass another level 14 statistically by level locking, getting an xp deficit, doing a ton of quests (or other methods of getting AA), spending a lot of time/money on getting better equipment, and camping lowbies who have absolutely no chance at fighting back (oh, and getting rewarded for griefing people). This is more than your typical twinking, this is god mode. Question for level lockers - what level are you and how easy is it to kill a non level locker 4 levels above you? How about a group of them? Tesar@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Tesar@Venekor wrote: If I'm full of nonsense, did you really need to pound out a 3 page reply to every sentence I wrote? You're a crybaby jackhole who clearly can't handle being killed. There. Did I prove how tough I am too? Am I cool now too? Look, I have no problem discussing these points if you, or anyone else is interested, but when someone opens with an attack, it just tells me they want to be the forum tough guy, shout their opinion over anyone else's voice, and aren't really interested in a "discussion" on the matter. Does that adequately sum you up? You did read the part where I said I was a Guardian, right? God mode? Please. It seems to me that everyone can work to become better than they are. Everyone has the same chance to make their character as good as s/he can be. You and your supporters seem to want more handed directly to you, and less work to be done to get it. Explain to me, exactly, in your rabid anti-level-locking frenzy, what is preventing you from competing with those you complain about? Another thing with regards to your statement above, the difference between us, I'm certain, is no matter what manner they change the rules, level locking or otherwise, I will accept the rules and have fun. You, you will still be here pounding out another complaint, looking for a forum fight, and insulting people without reason. Have fun with that! </blockquote> I apologize for starting off with an attack. This isn't about everyone being able to level lock if they wanted to compete, or even us wanting everything to be handed to us on a silver platter. This is about the fact that level 14s sit around and gank the hell out of newbies/lowbies and and the newbies/lowbies have absolutely no way to fight back. This is about the fact that there is a level spread, and the level spread currently does nothing - a level 70 killing me in 1 second is just as bad as a level 14 killing me in 3 seconds. Either way I have no way to fight back. My attacks do nothing and the best thing I can do is stun and run. If this was the intended design, I'll gladly leave and play PvE or another game, but I have a feeling it wasn't. I deal with gankings, I gank, I get ganked, I enjoy all of it. I don't enjoy having what seems to be something that should be preventing me from getting ganked by those far superior to me statistically but getting ganked by those far superior to me statistically anyway. I personally never once whined about getting ganked by 60s in WoW while I was happily questing at level 30. Sure, I'd complain to friends about some loser 60 with no time, but it was part of the intended ruleset so I accepted it. I could QQ more and move to PvE server if it was that big of an issue. Level locking 14s destroying me in 3 hits doesn't feel like the intended ruleset. I think PvP in EQ2 could be lots of fun. I'm a competitive player and love PvP so I bought this game having only gotten to level 10 and only played the PvE portion. Then I deleted all my level 10 characters from the trial and started fresh on Nagafen. Then I got to 10 and got ganked a few times, I actually have a lot of fun getting ganked, I was laughing pretty hard when I stunned the guy and ran/stealthed, he couldn't find me. Then I got the jump on someone and realized his health didn't drop one bit for the 10 seconds of attacking before he turned around and destroyed me. This happened countless more times before I got to level 11. What's preventing me from level locking and competing with them? I'm a new player. The farthest I've been is wanderlust fair. I've now been ganked more times than my level 52 pally on wow (no joke, pvp server). World PvP is only any good with a healthy population. I'm close to playing exclusively on a PvE server unless something's changed. Big deal right? I wonder how many more people are making that same decision. Hop on Antonia Bayle and see if the conversation doesn't come up at least once within an hour about people who rolled there and decided they couldn't take it anymore. You can go ahead and say QQ more, go play PvE, and that's what we'll do, but your gankable population won't stay like that for long if something isn't changed.

HerbertWalker

06-06-2007, 10:35 PM

I'm level 38 wizard with 65 AA, great gear, a 20p horse, and all master spells. Everything was earned by that single fairy over a 6 month timespan, starting when Kelethin came online. Obviously at this level I have nothing to do with ganking noobs fresh off the boat, so let's not assume that this uber-locker is driving away players. Lets instead focus on the 'power rating.'Do you seriously think that they are ever going to be able to write the code that will assess my 'power rating' properly?I could have chosen really stupid AA abilities. Should the 'power rating' account for those stupid choices? Why or why not?So now all of my gear need to be assigned a power factor value? I could be wearing all Fabled gear, but they all might be stupid choices of Fabled gear. How should the 'power rating' account for this?If your answer is that, "well, I should have made smart choices so that my power rating is appropriate - Fabled is Fabled, and 65 AA is 65 AA." My answer back would have to be that, the system today already handles that. We all have the same capability of creating a level 38 wizard with 65 AA, a horse, Fabled gear, and all masters. I spent 6 months. Are you saying that you want my achievements to be nerfed down to your level because you are the new guy in town, and you don't have 6 months to spare?I was once a [Removed for Content], and now I solo red cons. You are a [Removed for Content] and refuse to put in the effort I did.This is a difficult game. I like that. My achievements over a long span of time meant that I gain a significant advantage over some new WOW recruit that thinks this game is a WOW clone. No way bro, this game has way more depth and is way more difficult.Or if you complain enough you might get my 6 months of achievement nerfed, or better yet it might get handed to you. I earned this advantage by playing smart for a long time using the game mechanics, just as anyone else can.

Harbringer Doom

06-06-2007, 11:02 PM

<cite>Scai wrote:</cite><blockquote> Question for level lockers - what level are you and how easy is it to kill a non level locker 4 levels above you? How about a group of them? </blockquote> Fair enough, I appreciate the response. With regards to your question above.... I have a level locked toon that can get ganked by greens. In Antonica. But a Guardian is probably not the most oft chosen toon to level lock. By the way, I agree that level locking needs to be looked at, just not to the extreme that some people advertise on here.

OmniDrac

06-06-2007, 11:03 PM

The problem is what characters we have now. Even if a change is done to "fix" level lockers...the issue will then be those that are like our friend previous to this post....38 and 65 AA. It is the same problem that seems to go round and round. Before it was the gear that was able to be made by crafters and usable by those of a lower tier if Crude... Now we have AA and then AA starting at level 10. Each time a change is made, we leave characters that are considered "overpowered" in one way or another. My suggestions is to remove Exp Debt from PvP servers completely. This will resolve most level locking issues and force people to work with what they have.

HerbertWalker

06-06-2007, 11:19 PM

Today's game provides a level playing field for every person on earth to join in and be as powerful as my wizard.If I quit and joined another game, I would hope that my opportunity there was also limitless.

Scai

06-06-2007, 11:50 PM

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm level 38 wizard with 65 AA, great gear, a 20p horse, and all master spells. Everything was earned by that single fairy over a 6 month timespan, starting when Kelethin came online. Obviously at this level I have nothing to do with ganking noobs fresh off the boat, so let's not assume that this uber-locker is driving away players. </blockquote>Grats on doing that all by yourself with one character. I'm curious, when did level locking become so rampant? And do you remember getting killed over and over between level 10 and 11 by someone who, if you attacked, wouldn't get hurt? <cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lets instead focus on the 'power rating.'Do you seriously think that they are ever going to be able to write the code that will assess my 'power rating' properly?I could have chosen really stupid AA abilities. Should the 'power rating' account for those stupid choices? Why or why not?So now all of my gear need to be assigned a power factor value? I could be wearing all Fabled gear, but they all might be stupid choices of Fabled gear. How should the 'power rating' account for this?If your answer is that, "well, I should have made smart choices so that my power rating is appropriate - Fabled is Fabled, and 65 AA is 65 AA." My answer back would have to be that, the system today already handles that. We all have the same capability of creating a level 38 wizard with 65 AA, a horse, Fabled gear, and all masters. I spent 6 months. Are you saying that you want my achievements to be nerfed down to your level because you are the new guy in town, and you don't have 6 months to spare?</blockquote>Sounds like an awesome idea... Yes, as a programmer I think that given enough time and the right developers they could write a fairly good algorithm to determine how "powerful" someone is. This would include things like level, dps of a weapon compared to class (whereas dps doesn't matter to some classes), + attributes, number of AA, level of gear, level of spells, etc all packed into one "power rating." What about people who choose "stupid" AA abilities? You're right, my answer to that is "too bad, it counts the same." Or, they could assign a separate power rating for each ability in terms of it's usefulness in PvP. The system does not handle this in terms of deciding who one should be allowed to attack. Wouldn't you rather be fighting only people you know have put the same amount of time and effort into their character? Or do you prefer mindlessly trashing people who have played for a total of 10 hours. I don't want to take away your achievements, or your power, or all your hard work. The people I'm talking about are the people camping lowbie areas and getting rewarded for it. If someone wanted to level lock and quest their way to 40, making the process take a whole lot longer, and in the process gaining ridiculously good equipment and tons of AA, I would absolutely be all for it. I imagine the power difference between a locked 38 and a non locked 38 wouldn't be as ridiculous, and if it was, at least you won't find hordes of 38s camping wherever the 30s get their quests from. My main focus is on the fact that lowbie level lockers = god mode, and I bet it's scaring away a lot more pvpers than just me. <cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was once a [Removed for Content], and now I solo red cons. You are a [Removed for Content] and refuse to put in the effort I did.This is a difficult game. I like that. My achievements over a long span of time meant that I gain a significant advantage over some new WOW recruit that thinks this game is a WOW clone. No way bro, this game has way more depth and is way more difficult.Or if you complain enough you might get my 6 months of achievement nerfed, or better yet it might get handed to you. I earned this advantage by playing smart for a long time using the game mechanics, just as anyone else can.</blockquote> Again, I don't want to take away anything you've worked hard at. I don't think I've called for a nerf once, I've mainly focused on the fact that the game tries to keep the playing fields even but level locking has completely nullified that attempt. It's really simple and straight forward... Game allows only those within a certain level to fight. Why does it do this? Probably in an attempt to keep the playing fields equal. Are the playing fields equal? Not even close, at least at the lower levels... and those are the levels that will get someone addicted to the game, or send them running. I ran to Antonia Bayle, and I spoke with some others that were in the same boat. I'd love to see that changed. God mode level locking was the overwhelming reason we all had.

HerbertWalker

06-07-2007, 12:29 AM

Nice1. We will disagree on the accuracy potential of a 'power rating.' Too complex and will have equally as serious loopholes as the ones we have now, which is just level based. The variables are nearly infinite in order to write the algorithm correctly. I would like to hear your idea on the specifics of the algorithm for a single class with 40 levels and 70AA because that would need to be a 50+ page design doc, imo, even to get to the point of beginning the technical code specs. IMO having played this game for years.The biggest loopholes in my mind would be in the exploitation of the holes in the algorithm itself. ie. I will change my AA and gear choices around until I find where the algorithm fails and gives me my largest advantage (a power rating that is too low.)In short, I just don't think the pwer rating changes much do to loopholes, though I did argue many months ago that the power rating should at the very least take into account number of AA points and Class. Just my opinion.2. Don't mistake me for one who ganks greenies. I am vocal here and in game about this, but you are new so I will say it again. I enjoy the fact that an orange con jumps me as if he is Mr Tough Guy, and then I smack him into the ground. He is thinking easy kill because I'm wearing a robe, looking afk, and letting him get the jump on me. This is the adrenaline moment I cherish. I also attack red cons for the adrenaline rush of a dangerous fight. I attacked a guy 20 levels above me (solo) yesterday and would have won had some randoms not healed him. I ran away instead of letting him get me. I essentially won that. He was not a very good player clearly, but hey I beat a coercer 20 levels above me.This is how I have fun in the game - by demonstrating my character's seemingly impossible power. I don't need a 'power rating' for that. You need a power rating for protection from others, but I don't need one in order to have fun, nor for protection. Point is, if you put in the effort you won't need it either.3. Level locking became rampant when the EOF expansion arrived. We were all level 70. I had an untitled [Removed for Content] guardian that had died more than anyone on the server at that time. Like many others, I created a fairy alt that became my main. I locked him at level 18 and never looked back. I have a long attention span and a lot of ganja, so this character was created for the long haul because I knew there was a reward in the end. Otherwise I would have quit the game a long time ago.4. My guardian got ganked constantly from level 10-70. He sucked. My new wizard was a smarter player by then, had escape tactics more elaborate than sprint, but more importantly there were a lot less powerful characters out there at that time because level locking had barely begun. Regardless, level 10-11 went by in 20 minutes max as turning in a quest at that level is a ton of exp.5. No grats needed. It's not work. I love it. I would not play if there were caps to how powerful I can become. Though I did choose wizard on purpose, to segregate myself from the rest of the ubers - for some semblance of respect for my aptitude. Scouts get zero respect. Back then, and still today, people underestimate what is possible when you uber out a clothie.6. The difference between a level 38 that locked at 10, and a regular 38 that never locked is immense. Same as in T2. I don't kill uber-locked red cons. I can only kill the regular red cons. I only find out which type of red con I am fighting in mid-battle - so yeah I die.

Armawk

06-07-2007, 03:40 AM

Just to the entitlement bunnies.You have had your "reward" for 6 months "work".Its called fun and you had it already, because you were not working you were playing the game. Thats what you paid for thats what you got. If the game closed down tomorrow you would not have been lied to, ripped off or anything.And lets be clear, not one person has called for existing twinks to be nerfed to noob level. Noone, so stop defending that imaginary enemy and look at what people ARE calling for. Youd be surprised how reasonable it is.

06-07-2007, 07:43 AM

<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Baru@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>safe zones are for the weak. Maybe they should just make a hardcore server with no safe zones, permadeath, and all item loot. yeah. </blockquote> I hope your kidding. </blockquote> fraid I'm not. The best pvp ever was early RZ. Pvp from level 1, item and coin loot, no safe zones. Somehow it evolved into this WHY ARE YOU KILLING ME I JUST WANT TO PLAY style of PvP that makes me cry. The permadeath server on EQ1 (The One that Curt Schilling put his Jersey up for the winner) went over quite well and needs to be brought back. We need this. For the good of mankind. Stop the wussification of PvP please.

AnAnimatedcorpse

06-07-2007, 09:10 AM

I am no ways a level locker, at all.... but seriously, people- It takes awhole of an hour to get from level 10-14. Hit level 20 in 1-1.5 days, any one can do this. The higher you get, the less level locking will be a problem. I love having level lockers around, feels all the better when I kill them. I remember just recently, I had a bunch of twinked lockers attack my defiler. Yes, I ended up dying, but that was after half of their group got feared off of N'mar's Ascent! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Let the level locking stay or go, in the end it doesn't matter and you feel all the more accomplished when you make it to the end game. Believe me, it was hell for like my first 40 levels of being a berserker, as our class doesn't truely shine till later levels..

WasFycksir

06-07-2007, 10:11 AM

People keep saying that newbs are being driven off because well equipped twinks are killing them off....Well guess what, any newb in any activity new to them is gonna get wailed on by the better equipped, more seasoned player, it's called reality.If you have never driven an indy car, do ya think you would win the 500 the first time out, of course not. Same with EQ2, the new players are gonna die, alot, and they need to get over it.If you have been around awhile, built up a good account, practiced, and spec'd your toon smartly, you deserve to be able to beat the crap outa someone!Like anything you have to pay your dues, work hard and practice and soon you will be the seasoned player too.Quit making excuses, and quit handing everything to everyone that whines a bit. If people actually worked for what the got things may be a bit better these days.

Amphibia

06-07-2007, 10:54 AM

<cite>Scai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your point "b" is almost one year old, nothing new but thanks. And yes I agree with it. Your power rating should not be based on level alone. Along with those things you mentioned, the power rating should and must include CLASS. The classes are not balanced solo, so unless you give guardians an advantage, you have the same problem. Bigger Problem: It is not possible to do accurately enough, and so that power rating would have serious loopholes just like we have now.Your point "a" does not award character achievement enough. The game should promote and allow the players to achieve amazing power - power to be more uber than anyone else on the server. I don't want us all to be capped out. See my sig.</blockquote>I agree, you should be able to achieve amazing power. You should also only be able to fight other people of amazing power. The system tries to do just that by setting a level spread, so it's obvious that the route they intended to go in was one of "people should only be able to start fights with people who are close statistically." Levels alone are not a good gauge of whether the other player is close statistically. They need to factor in other things, such as the things I mentioned. </blockquote>You're new, aren't you? I can tell you right now that this idea would probably kill PvP. If you are serious about this one, I think maybe you would be happier on a blue server where you run no risk of getting killed by people with better gear and more experience in the game. I don't mean that as an insult at all, so please don't take it that way. But PvP is supposed to be a bit rougher, and half the point is to learn to adapt and get better. And what fun would PvP be without a feeling of risk and danger? Be careful what you wish for. I remember I whined and cried about how 70's ganked us poor lowbies back when Sinking Sands was an unlimited zone. Many of us did. Boy did I regret when they finally put in that level 10 range. Sinking Sands became the most boring place ever after that... I think the last thing we need is further restrictions on who you can fight. The level range nerf was bad enough. Spending tons of time looking for PvP is the most boring aspect of this game, trust me on this one. If you just started out, you probably don't see that problem just yet... but you will later. And as Tesar said, we all started with nothing. I came late to Naggy myself and got ganked tons by twinks. And I had to take the same path as everyone else... to start harvesting and gear myself up. Everyone can do this, and you can get far in PvP at lower levels with mastercrafted gear and adept 3 spells. Fabled stuff is nice, but not at all necessary. Explore and learn your way around in the game, and join a guild. Many locked guilds are very newbie friendly, and if you ask questions in the channels you usually get lots of help there too. Tired of getting ganked? Then gang up with your faction and kill those [I cannot control my vocabulary], numbers is greater than any gear in this game... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Harbringer Doom

06-07-2007, 01:10 PM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to the entitlement bunnies.You have had your "reward" for 6 months "work".Its called fun and you had it already, because you were not working you were playing the game. Thats what you paid for thats what you got. If the game closed down tomorrow you would not have been lied to, ripped off or anything.And lets be clear, not one person has called for existing twinks to be nerfed to noob level. Noone, so stop defending that imaginary enemy and look at what people ARE calling for. Youd be surprised how reasonable it is.</blockquote> If I understand your post correctly, you're calling those defending the current level locking system "entitlement bunnies." That is ironic isn't it?

Derrickr

06-07-2007, 02:57 PM

People fail to realize that when a new person comes into the game they don't have a clue what's going on. When they get slaughtered by someone the exact same level as them they don't understand why they died so quickly.They don't know that they have to level a toon to 70 and use that toon to fund an alt just to be able to compete. These people are quitting the game before they can even learn what's going on and why things are so hard for them.The bad thing is, most of these level lockers started the game when PvP was new and didn't have to go through being ganked by twinks so they have no idea what it feels like.If I had the choice of two-shotting someone and winning vs. fighting someone to the last hit and dieing I'd chose the death. PvP is much more fun that way.

kreepr

06-07-2007, 04:04 PM

<cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote>People fail to realize that when a new person comes into the game they don't have a clue what's going on. When they get slaughtered by someone the exact same level as them they don't understand why they died so quickly.They don't know that they have to level a toon to 70 and use that toon to fund an alt just to be able to compete. These people are quitting the game before they can even learn what's going on and why things are so hard for them.The bad thing is, most of these level lockers started the game when PvP was new and didn't have to go through being ganked by twinks so they have no idea what it feels like.If I had the choice of two-shotting someone and winning vs. fighting someone to the last hit and dieing I'd chose the death. PvP is much more fun that way.</blockquote>They dont need to level to 70. My highest toon is 44 ATM on his way to 70 and I have a few level locked twinkes. I have crafters so I can craft everything I need myself and none are at level 70. I got the [Removed for Content] ganked out of me on my way up. This was my first pvp game ever. Did it make me leave no. I got better and got a guild and made friends we grouped and took it to them. I became a better player. I thank Snick and his little buddy frogak for that I lost count how many times I got ganked by those two. Made me step my game up though to compete. I dont get it why others cant do the same.

Harbringer Doom

06-07-2007, 04:09 PM

<cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote>People fail to realize that when a new person comes into the game they don't have a clue what's going on. When they get slaughtered by someone the exact same level as them they don't understand why they died so quickly.They don't know that they have to level a toon to 70 and use that toon to fund an alt just to be able to compete. These people are quitting the game before they can even learn what's going on and why things are so hard for them.The bad thing is, most of these level lockers started the game when PvP was new and didn't have to go through being ganked by twinks so they have no idea what it feels like.If I had the choice of two-shotting someone and winning vs. fighting someone to the last hit and dieing I'd chose the death. PvP is much more fun that way.</blockquote>So, what's the solution? Make everyone forced to be equally poorly equipped? No matter what the rules are, there is some percentage of the people are going to strive to have the best fighting machine possible within the rules of the game. Your position seems to be that we need to limit everyone to having a vanilla toon, so the fights are more even among everyone, whether they have been playing for a year, or ten minutes. Respectfully, I disagree. The person who has spent considerable time gearing and playing their toon should have an advantage to the power leveling noob. Dems the breaks kid. Everyone starts at the same level and with the same amount of stuff. I've said it before, and I'll say it again now: There are some things that I would agree need to be toned down for the level locked (e.g. the amount of AA you can obtain at level X, the fastest horse you can buy at level X), but as far as gear is concerned, the gear out there for lower levels has already been balanced out for those levels. If you spend the time acquiring it, you get to reap the benefits of being more powerful.

Armawk

06-07-2007, 04:13 PM

Tesar@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>If I understand your post correctly, you're calling those defending the current level locking system "entitlement bunnies." That is ironic isn't it? </blockquote>No Im specifically referring to those my post talks about, who use the "I EARNED the right to be superior and kill newer players without effort" argument. I.E. they believe they are entitled to something. Wouldnt dream of being any more general than that.

Armawk

06-07-2007, 04:20 PM

Maybe we could ALL agree on some things?How about these?All gear that is in tier range is legitimate and fair game (all fabled = goodness)All spell abilities in tier range are legitimate and fair game (all masters = goodness)Fully stocked realistic AAs for level range is legitimate and fair game Not gaining combat experience is legitimate and fair gameExploiting of non tiered items may not be okay, therefore requesting that mounts be addressed is a reasonable request.Exploiting faulty game mechanics to gain extra AAs while avoiding experience is not fine, therefore requesting that the currently popular tactic of experience debt and accruing AAs without experience be addressed is a reasonable request? anyone think thats "carebear blue server" talk?

Harbringer Doom

06-07-2007, 04:25 PM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tesar@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>If I understand your post correctly, you're calling those defending the current level locking system "entitlement bunnies." That is ironic isn't it? </blockquote>No Im specifically referring to those my post talks about, who use the "I EARNED the right to be superior and kill newer players without effort" argument. I.E. they believe they are entitled to something. Wouldnt dream of being any more general than that. </blockquote> Yeah. Not to belabor a point, but that doesn't make sense to me. Someone who thinks they have "earned" "the right to be superior" (presumably by acquiring gear and AA) are saying just that; that they earned the right. That seems to be to be different from saying that they are entitled, or should be given the right. My point was that the actual meaning of "entitlement bunnies" could be interpreted to be those who think the toons just off the boat are entitled (by virtue of the fact that they clicked the "Play" button) to be able to compete with someone who has been honing their characters gear and skills for 2 months, when your intending meaning was obviously as stated above. Thus opening the possibility that the statement could be seen as ironic (with a question mark after it). Its like raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaain, on your wedding day. (Except, you know, that's not ironic). Doncha think?

Harbringer Doom

06-07-2007, 04:27 PM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe we could ALL agree on some things?How about these?All gear that is in tier range is legitimate and fair game (all fabled = goodness)All spell abilities in tier range are legitimate and fair game (all masters = goodness)Fully stocked realistic AAs for level range is legitimate and fair game Not gaining combat experience is legitimate and fair gameExploiting of non tiered items may not be okay, therefore requesting that mounts be addressed is a reasonable request.Exploiting faulty game mechanics to gain extra AAs while avoiding experience is not fine, therefore requesting that the currently popular tactic of experience debt and accruing AAs without experience be addressed is a reasonable request? anyone think thats "carebear blue server" talk?</blockquote> I think you're on the right track. Think people will be able to agree on what is "realistic AAs for level range"? Once you define that, I think your last point might be moot. Who cares how people get their AAs if they are limited by level?

Bloodfa

06-07-2007, 04:31 PM

<cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote>People fail to realize that when a new person comes into the game they don't have a clue what's going on. When they get slaughtered by someone the exact same level as them they don't understand why they died so quickly.They don't know that they have to level a toon to 70 and use that toon to fund an alt just to be able to compete. These people are quitting the game before they can even learn what's going on and why things are so hard for them.The bad thing is, most of these level lockers started the game when PvP was new and didn't have to go through being ganked by twinks so they have no idea what it feels like.If I had the choice of two-shotting someone and winning vs. fighting someone to the last hit and dieing I'd chose the death. PvP is much more fun that way.</blockquote>They dont need to level to 70. My highest toon is 44 ATM on his way to 70 and I have a few level locked twinkes. I have crafters so I can craft everything I need myself and none are at level 70. I got the [I cannot control my vocabulary] ganked out of me on my way up. This was my first pvp game ever. Did it make me leave no. I got better and got a guild and made friends we grouped and took it to them. I became a better player. I thank Snick and his little buddy frogak for that I lost count how many times I got ganked by those two. Made me step my game up though to compete. I dont get it why others cant do the same. </blockquote>70, 44, either way you can farm the crap out of TS and make several plat out of an hours work if you just sell the rares, right. When did you create your toons? Was it before the level-locking rage? Not trying to single you out or bash you, but I believe that's what he's trying to point out; I could be wrong. It was bad after the first month in Q, just trying to get past the uber-necros and their zerg-pets (everybody remember that little 'oops' and how ugly it was?), but not impossible to get out. Stagnant gene pools eventually become dried up and extinct, and letting these guys get a little further than level 10 before getting gang-ganked or twink rolled might make for some fresh blood. How can that be a bad thing? That's not 'carebearing', that's expanding the player base. Note that I'm not calling for it to be removed from the game, just tweaked. I said it before (well, maybe not exactly in these terms), if somebody's 16 and has a taste of what PvP's like, he'll either stick it out or roll PvE, but at least they won't just write the game off as a waste of time and money. The gank pool that will be affected by something along the lines of "no locking before 20" will have their counterparts also levelling up; the only ones off-limits would be the true newbies, and the only ones that would be crying about something like that are the ones that like to gank level 10's wearing island gear. If that's going to be a major issue with somebody, then I'd say that any posts by that person saying that they locked for more 'hardcore PvP' or to stay the same level as their friends are complete bull [Removed for Content].But then this is all conjecture anyway, as nobody here knows exactly what or how the change will be, or its' impact. For what it's worth, I hope they don't just outright ban or disable it completely, as there are people who would be genuinely inconvenienced by it.

Armawk

06-07-2007, 04:40 PM

Tesar@Venekor wrote: <blockquote> I think you're on the right track. Think people will be able to agree on what is "realistic AAs for level range"? Once you define that, I think your last point might be moot. Who cares how people get their AAs if they are limited by level? </blockquote> Funnily enough I was thinking the same in reverse.. that making it impossible to get AAs without experience might automatically restrict them to sensible levels, without any artificial capping. I wonder how the maths is on that, how many AA per level one would get doing quests and exploration for AAs.

Harbringer Doom

06-07-2007, 05:51 PM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tesar@Venekor wrote: <blockquote> I think you're on the right track. Think people will be able to agree on what is "realistic AAs for level range"? Once you define that, I think your last point might be moot. Who cares how people get their AAs if they are limited by level? </blockquote> Funnily enough I was thinking the same in reverse.. that making it impossible to get AAs without experience might automatically restrict them to sensible levels, without any artificial capping. I wonder how the maths is on that, how many AA per level one would get doing quests and exploration for AAs.</blockquote> I see your point. It just seemed to me that it would be easier to assign some limit on AAs than solve all the potential ways one can get AA without gaining adventure xp. For example, if an artificial cap isn't in place, you just know someone will A) level a toon to the level they want to lock at B) only killed appropriate level named/turn in certain quests/collections to get to that level, C) be dragged to a bunch of zones with higher level toons kill every named they can, getting AA but not XP. It will become an art form. There's a ton of these little problems they would have to solve. People would still figure out the way to get the most xp before they lock. There will be manuals written on it. Creating the same concern for the new players who don't know how to maximize AA. But, for example, if you could do it on a pure AA:level ratio, 100 AAs:70 levels, that's 1.4285714 AA's per level. Approximately. So, at level 10, you can have 14 AA, at level 20 you can have 28, etc. Or some other calculation/cap. Seems a little sterile... but it would solve the level 27 Swashy with 44 AA (true story) issue that people have.

Amphibia

06-07-2007, 06:15 PM

Do you mean a limit to have many AA's you are allowed to earn pr level, or a cap for how many AA's you are allowed to distribute pr level? The latter I wouldn't mind, but to put in a limit on how many levels you are allowed to earn pr level would not be so cool, imo. Espesially since there aren't really that many quests available at higher levels. So to clearify... if lowbies with too many AA's is such a huge problem on PvP servers, then maybe an articifial cap on how many AA's you are allowed to distribute pr level could be a solution. But please no cap on how many AA's one is allowed to earn pr level, because imagine all the quests you'd just end up skipping, or saving till higher levels so that you could mentor to turn them in... ugh, that sounds very unfun and inconvinient.

convict

06-07-2007, 06:59 PM

Limit the amount of AA's, Id even say put it back to level 20 before you start earning AA xp like it was before. Limit or put a level limit on Horses by % speed/protection and up the pvp starting point from 10, you can get level 10 in no time. The only people who would not agree to this idea are the noob farmers wanting to look good with a high Kvd ratio and title who like feeling better than the noob they just 1 shotted.Ideas why this would be a bad idea other than the fact people will have more of a chance, and might even have more than 2 attacks.

Amphibia

06-07-2007, 07:36 PM

<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Limit the amount of AA's, Id even say put it back to level 20 before you start earning AA xp like it was before. Limit or put a level limit on Horses by % speed/protection and up the pvp starting point from 10, you can get level 10 in no time. The only people who would not agree to this idea are the noob farmers wanting to look good with a high Kvd ratio and title who like feeling better than the noob they just 1 shotted.Ideas why this would be a bad idea other than the fact people will have more of a chance, and might even have more than 2 attacks.</blockquote> There used to be AA gain from level 20. They changed it to 10 when EoF came out.

HerbertWalker

06-07-2007, 07:39 PM

The limit on AA's is there. It is 100, same for me as it is for anyone. Now let's play.

Scai

06-07-2007, 07:43 PM

Let me try to clarify some of the points against the current system. This is not what we're trying to say We don't all want level locking removed. Level locking allows you to level purely with quests, and that's a neat idea. Plus, your character ends up more powerful than a non-locked toon because it takes longer to get there, and that's ok too. We aren't necessarily asking for a completely even playing field. If we wanted that, we could go play guild wars. We want some exciting and challenging, yet possible to win world pvp. We don't think our newbie sword should be as good as your fabled sword. We think that camping our 2 hour old toon with your fabled sword of 2 hit death is lame. Our aim isn't to ruin all world PvP by adding more restrictions. Our aim is to make world PvP fun for more than the camping/ganking level locking jerks. This is what we're trying to say People are building their characters, griefing, and proving how "uber badass" they are, all at the same time by camping lowbies who may have no more than 3 hours of gameplay under their belt (or some other arbitrarily small number). People who are already skilled at the game and the pvp ruleset are being rewarded for ganking people who have absolutely no chance, not just because they're new, but because they statistically cannot do enough damage to kill the lockers before they're two shotted unless the locker has fallen asleep or gone afk. Why is this an issue? Why don't we just go roll PvE and let you have your ganking fun? Because we want to see a the PvP server's ruleset mean something. At the moment, it tries to prevent imbalanced pvp through a level spread. This level spread no longer works due to level locking twinks breaking it. Something needs to be done about it before you run out of people who are willing to sit there and get ganked by you. Your fun ends when the influx of newbies have all decided to move onto a different game or a PvE server. Onoes, who will you camp then? Other level locking twinks? Some of you may enjoy that, but the people camping wanderlust fair are there to grief, and once there's no one to grief, they're moving on too.

HerbertWalker

06-07-2007, 08:04 PM

I hear you, but I am not camping lowbies. In the 40 page post and this one, my character is getting lumped into the whole crew of the guys camping Darklight Woods spawn points.Any developer code in response to this complaining is likely to damage my character. That is how things have been "fixed" here in the past. There is always a segment of playerbase that gets the shaft who had nothing to do with the problem.I am being vocal this time, as usual. And the devs probably don't want to damage my character, but they lack resources and they will have no choice. My character will be considered an unfortunate part of the collateral damage, the minority.Or, my character may be grandfathered, retain his uberness, and be one of the mighty few in the coming months. That is totally unfair. What we have now is 100% fair to everyone on earth.

AbyssalSoul

06-07-2007, 08:18 PM

I really think if you all started playing the game for FUN, rather than [I cannot control my vocabulary] about it all the time it might just be a LITTLE better. People pay to play, let them have fun. I LIKE doing the quest lines and CHALLENGING myself to see how much AA I can get. The way I see it is that people always need something to whine about, before people were whining because there was NO level lock, so they put it in... now people are whining because there IS a level lock. [I cannot control my vocabulary] it you guys, stop making Sony see-saw back and forth with their decisions. This is what happens:CROWD A proposes a change, CROWD B says nothing about it or even supports it thinking that it is a great idea.SONY implements CROWD A's idea because it seems like popular opinion.CROWD B doesn't like the idea and flames the forums until Sony changes it and THEN...CROWD A quits or loses some bit of fun in the game. It'd be much easier if Sony just found a set of rules and stuck with it rather than trying to seesaw back and forth. Every time they implement a change they lose people, then when they go back to fix it they lose everyone that has come to like the change. I don't know from day to day if one toon will be nerfed, or what type of 'great' character change they are going to make... and I Don't like that. P.S. Last time I checked you don't make champion at level 14 from camping "noobs" with less than 3 hours of experience. So don't try telling me that.

CresentBlade

06-07-2007, 09:20 PM

<cite>AbyssalSoul wrote:</cite><blockquote>I really think if you all started playing the game for FUN, rather than [I cannot control my vocabulary] about it all the time it might just be a LITTLE better. People pay to play, let them have fun. I LIKE doing the quest lines and CHALLENGING myself to see how much AA I can get. The way I see it is that people always need something to whine about, before people were whining because there was NO level lock, so they put it in... now people are whining because there IS a level lock. [I cannot control my vocabulary] it you guys, stop making Sony see-saw back and forth with their decisions. This is what happens:CROWD A proposes a change, CROWD B says nothing about it or even supports it thinking that it is a great idea.SONY implements CROWD A's idea because it seems like popular opinion.CROWD B doesn't like the idea and flames the forums until Sony changes it and THEN...CROWD A quits or loses some bit of fun in the game. It'd be much easier if Sony just found a set of rules and stuck with it rather than trying to seesaw back and forth. Every time they implement a change they lose people, then when they go back to fix it they lose everyone that has come to like the change. I don't know from day to day if one toon will be nerfed, or what type of 'great' character change they are going to make... and I Don't like that. P.S. Last time I checked you don't make champion at level 14 from camping "noobs" with less than 3 hours of experience. So don't try telling me that.</blockquote>I could be mistaken (would not be the first time) but level locking was in the game at launch I thought. /shrug

Fonrian

06-07-2007, 09:59 PM

Nope.

Fonrian

06-07-2007, 10:00 PM

I think it came out when mentoring did.

convict

06-07-2007, 10:51 PM

Splinter@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>I think it came out when mentoring did. </blockquote> Which reminds, wasn't mentoring removed from pvp because people were to strong while mentoring? Isnt locking pretty much the same thing?

silentpsycho

06-07-2007, 11:01 PM

<cite>Scai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let me try to clarify some of the points against the current system. This is not what we're trying to say We don't all want level locking removed. Level locking allows you to level purely with quests, and that's a neat idea. Plus, your character ends up more powerful than a non-locked toon because it takes longer to get there, and that's ok too. We aren't necessarily asking for a completely even playing field. If we wanted that, we could go play guild wars. We want some exciting and challenging, yet possible to win world pvp. We don't think our newbie sword should be as good as your fabled sword. We think that camping our 2 hour old toon with your fabled sword of 2 hit death is lame. Our aim isn't to ruin all world PvP by adding more restrictions. Our aim is to make world PvP fun for more than the camping/ganking level locking jerks. This is what we're trying to say People are building their characters, griefing, and proving how "uber badass" they are, all at the same time by camping lowbies who may have no more than 3 hours of gameplay under their belt (or some other arbitrarily small number). People who are already skilled at the game and the pvp ruleset are being rewarded for ganking people who have absolutely no chance, not just because they're new, but because they statistically cannot do enough damage to kill the lockers before they're two shotted unless the locker has fallen asleep or gone afk. Why is this an issue? Why don't we just go roll PvE and let you have your ganking fun? Because we want to see a the PvP server's ruleset mean something. At the moment, it tries to prevent imbalanced pvp through a level spread. This level spread no longer works due to level locking twinks breaking it. Something needs to be done about it before you run out of people who are willing to sit there and get ganked by you. Your fun ends when the influx of newbies have all decided to move onto a different game or a PvE server. Onoes, who will you camp then? Other level locking twinks? Some of you may enjoy that, but the people camping wanderlust fair are there to grief, and once there's no one to grief, they're moving on too. </blockquote>IMHO, disable PVP until level 12, when people can equip the same level of gear being employed agasint them. Level 10 against a mastercrafted level 12 is just as bad as a level 10 against a level 18 (which is what level the twinks camping the newbie areas used to be, FYI).

silentpsycho

06-07-2007, 11:03 PM

AbyssalSoul wrote: <blockquote>P.S. Last time I checked you don't make champion at level 14 from camping "noobs" with less than 3 hours of experience. So don't try telling me that.</blockquote> No, but you can very easily make champion by camping the no-skill level 12-14 twinks preying on the level 10 newbies. Very, very easily. And, the ability to disable combat experience has been in this game since release. Frankly, I've had to use it on every one of my characters just to catch up with combat and spellcasting skills that stay low if you don't explicitly lock and work on raising them.

Wildfury77

06-07-2007, 11:07 PM

No its not the same thing. The only way to explore the zones properly is to turn off xp. Do you think the first time i went to lvl 70 i had killed 175 (different) nameds and done 375 quests by lvl 27? AND i still have LOADS more to do......I've seen tier 2/3 instances you have probably never been to!! This time round i intend to explore and EVERQUEST......I will be tier 4 next week and am looking forward to exploring ZEK/EL/Steamfront PROPERLY this time!! & enjoying the PvP......so yes i'll be keeping xp off! Enjoy the zones and stop speeding through some awesome content. My plea to the DEVS - "you made these colourful zones" let us explore them, PvP, quest & have fun!! Don't ruin it because of bunch of powerleveled lvl 70 raiders who want more non-fabled toons to gank. These guys don't even have yellow or orange toons to threaten them!! (EASYMODE one might say).

zorros

06-08-2007, 11:25 AM

<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>There needs to be places that solo players and groups alike can go, so they can lvl from 1-70 in peace. No, not PVE servers, just zones without pvp. </blockquote> LOL are you serious.You really should get some idea how to play the game if you cant find places to lvl even up to 70 without having to pvp.This is one thing that should change.NO INSTANCES at all.

kreepr

06-08-2007, 12:12 PM

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote>People fail to realize that when a new person comes into the game they don't have a clue what's going on. When they get slaughtered by someone the exact same level as them they don't understand why they died so quickly.They don't know that they have to level a toon to 70 and use that toon to fund an alt just to be able to compete. These people are quitting the game before they can even learn what's going on and why things are so hard for them.The bad thing is, most of these level lockers started the game when PvP was new and didn't have to go through being ganked by twinks so they have no idea what it feels like.If I had the choice of two-shotting someone and winning vs. fighting someone to the last hit and dieing I'd chose the death. PvP is much more fun that way.</blockquote>They dont need to level to 70. My highest toon is 44 ATM on his way to 70 and I have a few level locked twinkes. I have crafters so I can craft everything I need myself and none are at level 70. I got the [I cannot control my vocabulary] ganked out of me on my way up. This was my first pvp game ever. Did it make me leave no. I got better and got a guild and made friends we grouped and took it to them. I became a better player. I thank Snick and his little buddy frogak for that I lost count how many times I got ganked by those two. Made me step my game up though to compete. I dont get it why others cant do the same. </blockquote>70, 44, either way you can farm the crap out of TS and make several plat out of an hours work if you just sell the rares, right. When did you create your toons? Was it before the level-locking rage? Not trying to single you out or bash you, but I believe that's what he's trying to point out; I could be wrong. It was bad after the first month in Q, just trying to get past the uber-necros and their zerg-pets (everybody remember that little 'oops' and how ugly it was?), but not impossible to get out. Stagnant gene pools eventually become dried up and extinct, and letting these guys get a little further than level 10 before getting gang-ganked or twink rolled might make for some fresh blood. How can that be a bad thing? That's not 'carebearing', that's expanding the player base. Note that I'm not calling for it to be removed from the game, just tweaked. I said it before (well, maybe not exactly in these terms), if somebody's 16 and has a taste of what PvP's like, he'll either stick it out or roll PvE, but at least they won't just write the game off as a waste of time and money. The gank pool that will be affected by something along the lines of "no locking before 20" will have their counterparts also levelling up; the only ones off-limits would be the true newbies, and the only ones that would be crying about something like that are the ones that like to gank level 10's wearing island gear. If that's going to be a major issue with somebody, then I'd say that any posts by that person saying that they locked for more 'hardcore PvP' or to stay the same level as their friends are complete bull [I cannot control my vocabulary].But then this is all conjecture anyway, as nobody here knows exactly what or how the change will be, or its' impact. For what it's worth, I hope they don't just outright ban or disable it completely, as there are people who would be genuinely inconvenienced by it.</blockquote>There is a big difference between 44 and 70 but that's not the point. Yes I can harvest TS and some other zones and sell the rares but I don't I stockpile them to use so when I do hit what ever level I have what I need to be competitive in that level. Striydr was created Oct.5 2006 and CL was eight levels and I was repeatedly getting owned by greens and hes a brig, can we say twinked. Like I said it taught me a lesson and I learned from it. I didn't cry foul I made my self better got with a guild, grouped and learn to do what I needed to be competitive. The real problem is the amount of faction you need to get access to the level 20 PVP gear. It forces us to farm player. when you have to farm for L&L quests do you go hit the yellow mob or do you hit the green mobs? You hit the green ones to make it go faster. I don't hit greens specifically, I will go after anyone in my range but the greens make the process go faster. Sony needs to reduce the amount of faction needed or increases the amount you start with. Will this completely solve the problem no, but it will move a number of people out of that range faster.I am sorry to tell you but you will never stop all the people from hunting greens and camping newer players it will always happen. but reducing the number of people needing the kills in that tier and you will see the problem start to correct its self. Without breaking the game for everyone.By the way I took no offence to your post at all your just arguing your case like the rest of us.Oh and ghila has made last time I checked, around 80 plat from farming mobs and names in his tier and selling everything I got. Ghila was made on Dec. 6 2006 and Striydr no clue how much plat he has made not that much though.

KannaWhoopass

06-08-2007, 01:51 PM

My reply to the level locked twinks who say "I want to everquest" "I want to see all of the content with my friends""I want to level from questing only" Go play on a Blue server this is PvP !!! Ha! loving that 180 on the argument!If it were me 1) Mounts need to be limited to level. No 48% speed mounts on lvl 12 players. 2) AA exp is disabled when you disable Exp 3) PvP kill always results in Exp gain.The end result would be.. Players with alot of PvP expierience would end up leveling due to constant exp gain for killing players. But at the same time could gain alot of faction.The newbie zones would not be full of PvP expierienced players.Players who want to play with friends still can. Twinking would invilve Questing for mobs who give the Max AA to Exp ratio .. Ie Names .. which fits with the Quest theme. Turnig Exp off until you are going to kill a name. or finish a quest where the AA to Exp ratio is high. No twinks on 48% mounts hunting down players who have a 0% runspeed.I would also balance faction to the point where, if a player wants to get PvP gear and still use it for a bit before it is outdated that .. it should be able to be aquired by PvP kills. So in order to get enough faction you need to kill 200 players .... but if you kill 500 players you level out of it ... just fiction numbers to make a point.One of my pet peeves is that the leaderboards dont reflect the skill of players at all. When the top 100 best pvp players in the leaderboards are all under level 25 ... something is off.. If PvP kills resulted leveling scoring the skill of a player would be more accurate. Because knocking a lvl 70 player with a 15:1 KvD ratio off the boards .. to make room for lvl 14 twinks with a 35:1 ratio from farming newbies just doesnt seem right. Or just score .. Kills/Deaths * level ... whatever... I would also disable titles till lvl 30 .. but that is just me.

Bloodfa

06-08-2007, 02:14 PM

<cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote>People fail to realize that when a new person comes into the game they don't have a clue what's going on. When they get slaughtered by someone the exact same level as them they don't understand why they died so quickly.They don't know that they have to level a toon to 70 and use that toon to fund an alt just to be able to compete. These people are quitting the game before they can even learn what's going on and why things are so hard for them.The bad thing is, most of these level lockers started the game when PvP was new and didn't have to go through being ganked by twinks so they have no idea what it feels like.If I had the choice of two-shotting someone and winning vs. fighting someone to the last hit and dieing I'd chose the death. PvP is much more fun that way.</blockquote>They dont need to level to 70. My highest toon is 44 ATM on his way to 70 and I have a few level locked twinkes. I have crafters so I can craft everything I need myself and none are at level 70. I got the [I cannot control my vocabulary] ganked out of me on my way up. This was my first pvp game ever. Did it make me leave no. I got better and got a guild and made friends we grouped and took it to them. I became a better player. I thank Snick and his little buddy frogak for that I lost count how many times I got ganked by those two. Made me step my game up though to compete. I dont get it why others cant do the same. </blockquote>70, 44, either way you can farm the crap out of TS and make several plat out of an hours work if you just sell the rares, right. When did you create your toons? Was it before the level-locking rage? Not trying to single you out or bash you, but I believe that's what he's trying to point out; I could be wrong. It was bad after the first month in Q, just trying to get past the uber-necros and their zerg-pets (everybody remember that little 'oops' and how ugly it was?), but not impossible to get out. Stagnant gene pools eventually become dried up and extinct, and letting these guys get a little further than level 10 before getting gang-ganked or twink rolled might make for some fresh blood. How can that be a bad thing? That's not 'carebearing', that's expanding the player base. Note that I'm not calling for it to be removed from the game, just tweaked. I said it before (well, maybe not exactly in these terms), if somebody's 16 and has a taste of what PvP's like, he'll either stick it out or roll PvE, but at least they won't just write the game off as a waste of time and money. The gank pool that will be affected by something along the lines of "no locking before 20" will have their counterparts also levelling up; the only ones off-limits would be the true newbies, and the only ones that would be crying about something like that are the ones that like to gank level 10's wearing island gear. If that's going to be a major issue with somebody, then I'd say that any posts by that person saying that they locked for more 'hardcore PvP' or to stay the same level as their friends are complete bull [I cannot control my vocabulary].But then this is all conjecture anyway, as nobody here knows exactly what or how the change will be, or its' impact. For what it's worth, I hope they don't just outright ban or disable it completely, as there are people who would be genuinely inconvenienced by it.</blockquote>There is a big difference between 44 and 70 but that's not the point. Yes I can harvest TS and some other zones and sell the rares but I don't I stockpile them to use so when I do hit what ever level I have what I need to be competitive in that level. Striydr was created Oct.5 2006 and CL was eight levels and I was repeatedly getting owned by greens and hes a brig, can we say twinked. Like I said it taught me a lesson and I learned from it. I didn't cry foul I made my self better got with a guild, grouped and learn to do what I needed to be competitive. The real problem is the amount of faction you need to get access to the level 20 PVP gear. It forces us to farm player. when you have to farm for L&L quests do you go hit the yellow mob or do you hit the green mobs? You hit the green ones to make it go faster. I don't hit greens specifically, I will go after anyone in my range but the greens make the process go faster. Sony needs to reduce the amount of faction needed or increases the amount you start with. Will this completely solve the problem no, but it will move a number of people out of that range faster.I am sorry to tell you but you will never stop all the people from hunting greens and camping newer players it will always happen. but reducing the number of people needing the kills in that tier and you will see the problem start to correct its self. Without breaking the game for everyone.By the way I took no offence to your post at all your just arguing your case like the rest of us.Oh and ghila has made last time I checked, around 80 plat from farming mobs and names in his tier and selling everything I got. Ghila was made on Dec. 6 2006 and Striydr no clue how much plat he has made not that much though. </blockquote>Ah, glad you took it as I intended. Mature responses in a public forum, what is the world coming to? And yes, I know greens will be farmed at some point, regardless of the changes made. I also agree that the faction costs are prohibitively high, and that leads to farming the easy marks. The direction I was going with it wasn't to remove green-farming, although I wouldn't cry if they made it nigh-impossible, but to allow the newbies a chance at PvP before getting rolled by locked uber-twinks. To be honest, I'd expect them to lose 99% of the time, but to at least get in a couple of shots here and there to feel like "Hmmmm, I need more damage/heals/teammates, because I actually knocked that guy for some damage, and with more <factor x> I coulda beat him". I think we're on the same page with this, or at least reading the same book, in that there's definitely something skewed with it. The last couple of days have yielded some interesting suggestions and notions from people, besides the usual "nerf this type" or "omg! My class needs to be able to one-shot!", and the Deveopers seem to be reading the topics. Some of the proposed changes are based on suggestions straight from the posts, and that's a truly promising sign. For what it's worth, I don't see a problem with killing a greenie. I'm 63, and every time I hit Tenebrous Tangle, I know some red (or group of them) is going to go through me like a liter of cheap tequila. It's life. When man goes fishing, is he stronger than an 8 lb. bass? Hell yeah. Do you keep the 1 pounder that had the misfortune of thinking that worm was a free meal? Nah, you toss him back, and come back next year. And bring salt.

Derrickr

06-08-2007, 11:59 PM

People who are pro-twinkage are missing the point. If you put in the time to be able to afford all the fabled and mastercrafted gear you wear...you deserve to have it. Nobody's trying to take that away from you. But that doesn't make it anyless discouraging to new players.There is a difference between locking to maximize AA point versus trying to grief newbies to death. Do you think SoE wants you to scare away all the new people? I'm sure they'd rather have them stick around.If you're playing a fighting game and you find a move that's unstoppable would you repeatedly spam it just to win? Same deal here. Just because you can spend a ton of plat on a toon and kill newbies who don't stand a chance against you doesn't mean you should.

deepruntramp

06-09-2007, 02:39 AM

Level lockers and twinks are reaping what they sowed. Hope you enjoyed your easy mode while it lasted. I'd go ahead and quit if I were you to preserve that shiny title.

Rajasa

06-11-2007, 11:57 AM

Harbringer Doom

06-11-2007, 12:16 PM

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level lockers and twinks are reaping what they sowed. Hope you enjoyed your easy mode while it lasted. I'd go ahead and quit if I were you to preserve that shiny title.</blockquote> While certainly a factor to some, if you think that level-locking and wanting a title go hand in hand with everyone who level locks, you're ignorant. In my experience the percentage of non-locked (or level 70) title [Removed for Content] is the same as level locked. My ubah level-locked "Slayer" title is probably owing to how many orange and reds I run my group into.

tiredang

06-12-2007, 08:51 PM

<cite>Derrickray wrote:</cite><blockquote>People fail to realize that when a new person comes into the game they don't have a clue what's going on. When they get slaughtered by someone the exact same level as them they don't understand why they died so quickly.They don't know that they have to level a toon to 70 and use that toon to fund an alt just to be able to compete. These people are quitting the game before they can even learn what's going on and why things are so hard for them.The bad thing is, most of these level lockers started the game when PvP was new and didn't have to go through being ganked by twinks so they have no idea what it feels like.If I had the choice of two-shotting someone and winning vs. fighting someone to the last hit and dieing I'd chose the death. PvP is much more fun that way.</blockquote>The best place to learn the game is NOT a pvp server . .. that said, I came to Nagafen in September and leveled up the hard way. I still cringe when I think about Lunchbox Bandits and the mess they made of me repeatedly. But that is how I learned to pvp. Maybe they would kill me, but not without a huge fight from me. And so I harvested, farmed, etc., to make my toon the best I could and leveled to 70 asap and exiled only to find that PvP was so difficult to find, that I literally could not invest the time to PvP. So I made a low level toon. Since my main was exile, no help there. Again, I harvested, harvested harvested, took my deaths, and learned how to pvp on yet another class. Am I godly? Heh, well, I'm not breaking speed records for kills, but I'm also not dying that easily. The thing you have to understand, even non-twinks are not looking for fair or even pvp fights. If you go out alone, twinked or non-twinked, you WILL be rolled by full groups and die. My defiler doesn't survive against a full group even though she has amazing gear. The sooner you learn this and realize you NEED a strong group to hang out with, the sooner you catch onto eq2 pvp. This happens in all tiers, including and maybe especially in t7.

Fariic

06-12-2007, 11:25 PM

Dazzinian@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Kyen@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>If they remove xp locking it will just be another nail in the coffin that is eq2 pvp. You think they merged the servers because things are going as planned? They are having trouble populating them because people just pick up this game and expect to "win" w/o knowing thing one about the game itself. </blockquote>You're wrong. It's level locking that's killing PvP servers by chasing off fresh blood. God forbid a new player comes to this game expecting a fair chance and reasonably level playing field. (I'm having this issue right now, trying to get my roommate to drop the worthless cesspool that is WoW, for something that, by all rights, should be universally more appealing for a veteran MMO player.)PvP ought to be about skill more than gear. PvE is just the opposite, as it should be, because you don't have to consider whether or not the mobs are having fun. With players, even the looser needs to have enjoyed themself, to a degree. (Of course it's up to an individual to decide if they're having fun, but the potential needs to be there.)Twinked out gear and full AdeptIII/Masters is not something a new player can just pick up on in a reasonable amount of time. These things should be far less consequential in PvP. The devs had the foresight to give every spell a PvP version, now they need to apply that to make each upgrade considerably less of a boost.What to do about twinked gear, I don't know. But it is no less vital to address. Weakening procs on crafted gear in PvP would be a start.It's so frustrating and infuriating to see such a selfish attitude among these hard-core level lockers. They don't care one bit about the community; all they're interested in is how things effect them. If killing the current state of level locking chases off a few greedy players, we're better off for it.It's one thing to twink yourself out to have a reasonable edge, but god mode should be left to single player games.</blockquote>The above nails it on the head. My highest toons are 22, 20, 17, etc. etc. I have so many toons because it becomes impossible to play just one. I don't know if there is a level were things get better, but I can tell you that it's quickly becoming not worth finding out. Being at a constant, overwhelming disadvantage is not fun. I am not having fun. I am not having fun because the one of the important aspect of the game that I want to play is unplayable for 99% of the time. Even that 1% of the time is unplayable 99% of the time. I don't want to be constantly killed by players 5 levls lower then me. Maybe if they were beating me because they were better, but this has nothing to do with skill. There is NO skill here. I can't even do damage to most of the people I run into. The only word that discribes the past week for me is stupid. It's STUPID. It's stupid that new players are at such a disadvantage. It's stupid that it's not even a slight disadvantage, and it's stupid that it's so frigin prevelant. I shouldn't have to level lock to be competetive. That's STUPID. Making PvP accesable and fair is SMART. Fair being reletive here. It's an MMO and no MMO has balance. Fair doesn't mean that I can beat everyone. Fair means I'm not being farmed. That's how I feel when I play. Like I'm being farmed. It's not fun. It's not fun hitting on guys and seeing, you fail to do damage four or five times and then dieing. Even less fun when those people are a few levels lower then you.I can't afford adept abilities. I can't do quests, and when I do and I have a few coins I lose them to someone before I can bank it. Conditions are such that at the moment playing on Nagafen takes way more patients then the average player has. It's unfair and stupid.I can't be anymore blunt about it.I do not play games I can not PvP in.I can not PvP in this game.

tequiero

06-13-2007, 12:01 AM

i find it funny when people say twink oh we work had to be twink thats B u L L $ H 1 7. whe you lvl 14-26 and you have all master 1 spell in which most pvp server sells for 1-10 plat a spell for those lvls, and got them all that mean either you bought plat or you got a lvl 70 and you twink them out and that not hard work since a lvl 70 can make 1-5 plat in 1 hour. so dont say oh hard work nah that not hard work. i hope they take lvlign locking out i think that would help the pvp server bring in fresh meet for a change. and for the reply of well lvl up gring lvl , for people that just started pvp with no high toons to "TWINK" not so [Removed for Content] easy when you can spemd 1-5 hour looking for a [Removed for Content] group or the lvl 20's forget about it even worst " well solo exp yeah so i can get gank every 45 seconds hmm. i hate alot of the changes they dont to the pvp clases but if they take exp lockign away its well wort it.

tiredang

06-13-2007, 12:10 AM

<cite>tequiero wrote:</cite><blockquote>i find it funny when people say twink oh we work had to be twink thats B u L L $ H 1 7. whe you lvl 14-26 and you have all master 1 spell in which most pvp server sells for 1-10 plat a spell for those lvls, and got them all that mean either you bought plat or you got a lvl 70 and you twink them out and that not hard work since a lvl 70 can make 1-5 plat in 1 hour. so dont say oh hard work nah that not hard work. i hope they take lvlign locking out i think that would help the pvp server bring in fresh meet for a change. and for the reply of well lvl up gring lvl , for people that just started pvp with no high toons to "TWINK" not so [I cannot control my vocabulary] easy when you can spemd 1-5 hour looking for a [I cannot control my vocabulary] group or the lvl 20's forget about it even worst " well solo exp yeah so i can get gank every 45 seconds hmm. i hate alot of the changes they dont to the pvp clases but if they take exp lockign away its well wort it.</blockquote>Or you harvest. And harvest more. And sell the harvest stuff you don't use. BiCs go for 70 gold per.

Armawk

06-13-2007, 03:53 AM

Angelyc@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Or you harvest. And harvest more. And sell the harvest stuff you don't use. BiCs go for 70 gold per. </blockquote> Its true, alts are NOT needed for mid level twinkage. A lot of grinding is. I know, cos I been there heheNot believing everyone bought their nightmares and such with their own cash though..

Rajasa

06-13-2007, 11:10 AM

Well, this is an example of what I experienced last night on Venekor, for what it's worth to this discussion. Keep in mind I knew I probably would lose the fight anyway, but pvp excitement is why I play on this server.Someone shouts, there's a lv 17 freep by the griffon near SQ. I was nearby playing my non-twinked, non-level-locked Lv 17 Swashie. My character has pretty decent gear for his level and does tradeskills also. But nothing that any other lv 17 has.Now, I'm not very good at pvp anyway, never have been. I think at age 53 I'm just not quick enough to respond as fast as some of you teenagers. but I like it just the same.Anyway... I see him just walking, back & forth. No one else was around, so I stealthed & got up behind him. I hit him with everything a swashie my level can from behind and you know what? He didn't even turn around?I thought for a sec, [Removed for Content]? So, I continued to whirl away on him. After about 5-6 seconds he turns and wack! I'm dead. One shot?Sorry, this is really not any fun. And, it probably isn't any fun for anyone else coming over to this server un-twinked.I'm seriously considering not playing on these pvp servers. I'm just not going to spend my time being the object of every twinks fun. The playing field doesn't have to be fair, just a little more balanced.

Bluu

06-13-2007, 11:27 AM

Well ya, but that being said... I think that the PvP in EQ2 is better than in any MMO I have ever played before (and i've played ALOT). And yes better than WoW (though I would like to see something like battlegrounds in EQ2). It's just 'real' and 'exciting' and a great challenge <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If people would just stop lvl locking <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

06-13-2007, 07:14 PM

No one wants to take away your ability to have an edge through hard work, obtaining better gear, etc. The problem here is, this advantage translates into completely unbeatable. If you beat me because your gear is better, or you out-skill me, then fine... thats what pvp is. If me and my four man un-twinked group finds you and gets destroyed in seconds without even scratching you, something is wrong. There is no skill deficit here, our attacks simply do nothing to you, while you destroy us in seconds. That is ridiculous, and the only people who don't think so are the people who are running around doing it so they can feel their [Removed for Content] throb. I'm not even saying that its ridiculous that 4 v 1 ends up with the 4 losing, I'm saying its ridiculous that we couldn't even leave a mark. "Just level out of the bracket" is not a fix, many people won't stick around long enough to do so, once they realize that they are simply gonna be farmed if they want to progress to 70. And thats a bad thing, if not to you, then definetely to SOE.

tiredang

06-13-2007, 07:41 PM

<cite>mh wrote:</cite><blockquote> No one wants to take away your ability to have an edge through hard work, obtaining better gear, etc. The problem here is, this advantage translates into completely unbeatable. If you beat me because your gear is better, or you out-skill me, then fine... thats what pvp is. If me and my four man un-twinked group finds you and gets destroyed in seconds without even scratching you, something is wrong. There is no skill deficit here, our attacks simply do nothing to you, while you destroy us in seconds. That is ridiculous, and the only people who don't think so are the people who are running around doing it so they can feel their [Removed for Content] throb. I'm not even saying that its ridiculous that 4 v 1 ends up with the 4 losing, I'm saying its ridiculous that we couldn't even leave a mark. "Just level out of the bracket" is not a fix, many people won't stick around long enough to do so, once they realize that they are simply gonna be farmed if they want to progress to 70. And thats a bad thing, if not to you, then definetely to SOE. </blockquote>Why are you not understanding this happens in ALL tiers? You think it's bad at t2, wait until you hit t4 and try to quest in zek/el. RE and CT were amazing gank zones as well. Hah, I remember a groupmate of mine deliberately pulling Vox in PF because this gank group would NOT leave us alone and it was the only way we could kill them (it was effective too -- a few Vox pulls and they were gone). Then get to Tenebreus Tangle at mid-50s or SoS in your 60s. You will be farmed by unbeatable people. And yes, it's frustrating to come across, but the solution is actually for YOU to take the time, harvest and harvest more, go to WC, BB, all those zones, kill the names, get the masters, etc., just like I did. Or to level and do that in another tier. But by the time I hit T4 on my first toon I was in at a minimum of MC/Ad3 -- I learned. But for real, a four man group is NOT going to be destroyed by my defiler -- if I'm lucky I will be able to get away. And maybe you will think twice before trying to gank a solo green. Edit: On further thought, another reason I did ok while leveling up on my first toon was my regular group composition. Brigand/Warlock/Warden -- and we'd occasionally add a guardian and/or coercer. But we played together always, and also were just a very powerful class combination. Some groups will work better than others, and some people you try to gank will be harder classes to actually gank. A defiler in lower tiers will be hard to kill but will eventually run oop whereas a brigand may just turn around and destroy you. This is partly because of class imbalances that the devs are apparently trying to correct now.

HerbertWalker

06-13-2007, 09:23 PM

A non-twink will find that my 38 wizard is unbeatable (green-red.)A twink? Well, now it all depends on how twinked, doesn't it?And that is the beauty of the current system. We are not all capped out at max uberness.The new caps on AA will max us all out. We will still not be defeated by a non-twink.The problem will be then that we are all the same - capped. There will be no difference between my uber wizard and another uber wizard. Both will be capped in AA, have all the same Masters, and Fabled gear. So you just made the game shallow and dumbed down for the over-achiever and yet did not solve the imbalance between twink and non-twink.So then, what is the point of capping our AA?

Norrsken

06-13-2007, 10:11 PM

I think people are a slight bit confused. On the pvp servers, full mastercrafted with a dash of legendary/fabled and ad3 with key skills m1 is the norm. The twinks run about in fabled/legendary with all masters. The ones running around in handcrafted with ad1 spells are not the norm, they are the [Removed for Content]. Just start to examine everyone you come across and you'll notice you see far fewer people on handcrafted than in mastercrafted+. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Lithidous

06-16-2007, 01:33 AM

Well, since Im new to the whole PvP scene in EQ2, I myself have wanted many times to up and quit. Most people who pvp are twinks and level locks, might not understand what is like for a new player with no money, little idea how to get AA exp quickly, feel when getting ganked over and over while trying to better their toon. I dont understand why SOE doesnt adopt a simple system to curve the ganking a little. A simple way to do is, and Im sorry for bringing this up but hey it works, is too adopt the WoW system. By that I mean not allowing pvp in newbie areas such as The Caves, The Sprawl, Oakmyst Forest, you know the T1 areas. This will allow new players time to adopt to their toons playstyle, time to harvest for Tradeskills, time to sell the rares from the harvest and use that money to buy better gear/spells, time to get some AA's, and even time to level lock to their hearts content! But by the time that toon reaches oh The Commonlands, and Ant. they hopefully should be leveled/equipped enough for pvp. Just a suggestion that Im sure will get flamed but I thought I would offer my thoughts.

Mournblades

06-16-2007, 02:23 AM

Yeah god forbid we want safe zones to level in because this is a PvP server. It's just not fair! (cried Paris Hilton)I mean I can't go to a PvE server and level in peace while dueling others to make myself feel cool and competative.Oh wait! I can...WAKE UP! You carebears need to understand the rules of the jungle. If you don't you aint cut out to play PvP. Nothing wrong with that as it is not for everyone.One last thing. If you think twinking is bad @ T2/T3 it aint getting any better as you level up. In fact it is worse... You will learn young grasshopper sooner or later.

CresentBlade

06-16-2007, 03:16 AM

The lockers are hindering others play style, hince should be removed. Lockers are causing zone distruptions. They say rush through the levels but why? Why should someone have to rush through the game because a bunch of unskilled players are abusing the system? Remove the disable and let the lockers leave. Lockers are killing the game. Its funny to see so many lockers cry about how its the same thing at t6-7 but they dont seem to have enough brains to understand they have plenty of time to prepare where as new players are getting no chance. Pure and simple lockers couldnt handle the high level pvp because it requires skill, so the lock low to kill of players that dont stand a chance. And so tired of lockers saying BS like just waiting on my friends, I only hunt oranges and red blah blah blah. At very least 75% of lockers farm greens and blues just got to the Caves or go to Dark Light Woods. Stop telling others L2P it is you lockers that lack the skill to pvp so you pick on people who stand no chance.Stop telling others to level fast past the teirs to avoid it, you are now telling people that they have to give up their play style because of the way you lockers play.Locking is disrupting the game and the zones and should be removed. And before you whine about leaving if they remove locking, bye. If the lockers leave then a whole new group of players will come to the game and many will return as well.

tiredang

06-16-2007, 03:53 AM

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>The lockers are hindering others play style, hince should be removed. Lockers are causing zone distruptions. They say rush through the levels but why? Why should someone have to rush through the game because a bunch of unskilled players are abusing the system? Remove the disable and let the lockers leave. Lockers are killing the game. Its funny to see so many lockers cry about how its the same thing at t6-7 but they dont seem to have enough brains to understand they have plenty of time to prepare where as new players are getting no chance. Pure and simple lockers couldnt handle the high level pvp because it requires skill, so the lock low to kill of players that dont stand a chance. And so tired of lockers saying BS like just waiting on my friends, I only hunt oranges and red blah blah blah. At very least 75% of lockers farm greens and blues just got to the Caves or go to Dark Light Woods. Stop telling others L2P it is you lockers that lack the skill to pvp so you pick on people who stand no chance.Stop telling others to level fast past the teirs to avoid it, you are now telling people that they have to give up their play style because of the way you lockers play.Locking is disrupting the game and the zones and should be removed. And before you whine about leaving if they remove locking, bye. If the lockers leave then a whole new group of players will come to the game and many will return as well.</blockquote>I seriously doubt that SoE is going to remove locking from the game. T2/T3 has always been a battleground, and it was worse when the level rangers were wider. SoE actively encourages level locking in t2. The faction required to get the first piece of t3 faction gear is insanely huge. 17500 faction, 35 faction per kill that you get credit for (healers have a bit harder a time on this one) means that locking is being encouraged. And if your'e going to have to do that much factioning, you're going to have time to harvest and farm for better level-appropriate gear. Instead of saying "stop locking" why not look at some of the reasons people started locking to begin wtih and address that. You never have that huge faction gap again.

Mournblades

06-16-2007, 05:06 AM

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>The lockers are hindering others play style, hince should be removed. Lockers are causing zone distruptions. They say rush through the levels but why? Why should someone have to rush through the game because a bunch of unskilled players are abusing the system? Remove the disable and let the lockers leave. Lockers are killing the game. Its funny to see so many lockers cry about how its the same thing at t6-7 but they dont seem to have enough brains to understand they have plenty of time to prepare where as new players are getting no chance. Pure and simple lockers couldnt handle the high level pvp because it requires skill, so the lock low to kill of players that dont stand a chance. And so tired of lockers saying BS like just waiting on my friends, I only hunt oranges and red blah blah blah. At very least 75% of lockers farm greens and blues just got to the Caves or go to Dark Light Woods. Stop telling others L2P it is you lockers that lack the skill to pvp so you pick on people who stand no chance.Stop telling others to level fast past the teirs to avoid it, you are now telling people that they have to give up their play style because of the way you lockers play.Locking is disrupting the game and the zones and should be removed. And before you whine about leaving if they remove locking, bye. If the lockers leave then a whole new group of players will come to the game and many will return as well.</blockquote>... Says the CAREBEAR. Most of your comments lack substance and are beyond stupid.Are you saying T7 is balanced and is not a problem when someone is fabled/mastered out and fighting lesser geared players??? Pulease! Stop insulting everyone's intelligence and get it through your thick skull it is not locking/twinking that is the problem.And for the record farming greens and blues in the lowbie zones is NOT fun. It is pretty [Removed for Content] skilless and boring. You want to know the #1 reason why people do this? It's called FACTION ITEMS. Blame SoE for making the requisites so high. Go back to PvE. You do NOT belong here.