Why I betrayed my monk to a bruiser

[omnilev]

I have several major reasons, and let me preface this by saying that I have most master crafted armor, but only one or two pieces of fabled/legendary, and I am lvl35 kerran, and only 9AA due to not purchasing the expansions until last week.  So I have decent gear, but by far not too great. 1) Bruiser's can heal themselves every 90 seconds.  As a  monk AA I had to waist 3 AA in the Kick before I can spend my AA in Heal, Bruiser I can dump immediately 5 in Heal, at 35 Bruiser healing myself for ~700 every 80 seconds.  And if I get a Master I of bruiser heal, that'll put me to 50% at my lvl. 3) This is a Huge topic for me, DPS.  As a monk, with one Master II one Adept 1 I can open a fight with close to 500dmg with two hits.......with a bruiser I can open a fight with up to 800 with one hit, and the next two over 1600dmg.  I open with hundred hand slap up to 800dmg (Master II), then apply a knock down and get behind and suckerpunch for up to 800 (master I)   then I lay waste and I usually just am getting through all my spells by the time the mob drops, and I've barely lost 10% health, this is to evenly con'd mobs.  I haven't had a chance to try harder/heroic, I just betrayed 2 days ago. 4) I've noticed I can do non stop soloing with the bruiser due to the 90 second heal and increased DPS, with the monk, soloing was defiintely no problem, but took twice as long, I had no conception it would be so much quicker with the Bruiser. 5) Bruisers have drag, Monks have no shining AA highlight I am extremely happy that I betrayed to a bruiser, now I can actually do great DPS, I can heal myself significantly, and I think I'll be much more valuable in groups.   Anyone have a counter to this?  I'd love to hear it.

[DisturbedMagg]

<p>Betrayed from a monk a long long time ago, at start of KoS i believe when this toon (now main) was an alt, at the time was like legendary/mastercrafted crap and was fully mastered out as a monk. Wasnt enjoying it at all so betrayed obviously i had the same gear but everything was adeptIII with a few masters. But the difference was insane, as i said at the time i wasnt geared well but i was doing stuff that wasnt possible to me as a monk. E.g sanctum of the scaleborn i could kill like 3 named as a monk, soon as i was a bruiser (and technicially worse off due to being adeptIII's compared to fully mastered) i was clearing all named in zone. Numerous other things that are just easier as a bruiser over a monk. One of the nice things monk had was Tsunami but they nerfed it to much so its crap now.</p><p>The heal difference between them was more due to the fact as a monk you could heal others, but personally i never did that, well not much anyway, so i dont miss that at all.</p><p>Stonedeaf is also a hell of alot better then the ward monks get, then obviously the DPS difference. </p>

[ganjookie]

Yeah I have a counter Monks are awesome, um...wait no..no argument in a bruiser forum

[Junaru]

I'll wait till the AA revamp and RoK before I decide to cross over. My Monk is fairly well geared so SoS/PP named aren't that hard. I use my heal a lot on raids to save the MT on bad pulls. Healing the MT for 5k+ is nice. Plus it's nice seeing my name on both parses. On top of that with the level increase I'll have to replace most of my masters anyways so that would be a good time to do it.

[Ganeden]

<cite>omnilev wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have several major reasons, and let me preface this by saying that I have most master crafted armor, but only one or two pieces of fabled/legendary, and I am lvl35 kerran, and only 9AA due to not purchasing the expansions until last week.  So I have decent gear, but by far not too great. 1) Bruiser's can heal themselves every 90 seconds.  As a  monk AA I had to waist 3 AA in the Kick before I can spend my AA in Heal, Bruiser I can dump immediately 5 in Heal, at 35 Bruiser healing myself for ~700 every 80 seconds.  And if I get a Master I of bruiser heal, that'll put me to 50% at my lvl. 3) This is a Huge topic for me, DPS.  As a monk, with one Master II one Adept 1 I can open a fight with close to 500dmg with two hits.......with a bruiser I can open a fight with up to 800 with one hit, and the next two over 1600dmg.  I open with hundred hand slap up to 800dmg (Master II), then apply a knock down and get behind and suckerpunch for up to 800 (master I)   then I lay waste and I usually just am getting through all my spells by the time the mob drops, and I've barely lost 10% health, this is to evenly con'd mobs.  I haven't had a chance to try harder/heroic, I just betrayed 2 days ago. 4) I've noticed I can do non stop soloing with the bruiser due to the 90 second heal and increased DPS, with the monk, soloing was defiintely no problem, but took twice as long, I had no conception it would be so much quicker with the Bruiser. 5) Bruisers have drag, Monks have no shining AA highlight I am extremely happy that I betrayed to a bruiser, now I can actually do great DPS, I can heal myself significantly, and I think I'll be much more valuable in groups.   Anyone have a counter to this?  I'd love to hear it. </blockquote><p>sure, i could give you some counters, bruisers are that much better like you say.</p><p>1) Monks can heal others, very useful in raids. Your master heal at 35 or whatever won't heal 50% not even close to it, and the recast is 90 seconds, not 80.</p><p>2) ???</p><p>3)Yes, monks are pansies. But zone wide parses at level 70 between equally mastered/fabled monks are pretty equal, with bruisers coming out around 100dps higher. (we are supposed to do  better damage)</p><p> 4)we can solo better, but not that much better then monks really, if there's that HUGE of a difference as you say you were doing something wrong as a monk.</p><p>5)drag is useful as an extra taunt in regular groups. In raids it's an extra death.  </p>

[Wunabei]

Everyone says Bruisers are so much better dps than monks, but truthfully, I don't see it compared to the monks in my guild. They regularly parse 100-200 dps higher than me on raids. I'm 4-4-8 in wis, sta, int, using both twin calamites, one relic piece (legs) and a few excarnate.

[Wunabei]

edit: sry triple post on accident.

[Wunabei]

<p>see above. ignore.</p>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

The stamina line is overrated. Most monks I run into have Crane Flock and spam that sucker as often as possible. That could be the difference in your damage right there, along with specific buffs (are you getting haste bonuses? illusory arm? cacaphony of blades?). The reason Bruisers look like they have more DPS is because about 75-80% of our damage CA's do twice as much damage... with their only downside being but cost twice the power and have twice the recast time. It's all up front. So as long as you can finish a fight in less than 30 seconds, the Bruiser will be better. As soon as the Monk's quicker recast gets it's chance to come in (35s or so), the damage becomes literally exactly the same. In this way, along with the quicker self heal (40-50% at highest level with AA), Bruisers get a slight edge in solo play. You don't normally want to have to live through a fight longer than 30 seconds, so killing fast means better for survivability in solo combat. Monk's heal is nearly as big as ours, takes longer to recast, but also cures the target of some status ailments. It's definitely more of a group oriented buff... so if you don't play groups as much, and look at the solo aspect of everything... well, the Bruiser shines in comparison.

[Cornbread Muffin]

<cite>Wunabei wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone says Bruisers are so much better dps than monks, but truthfully, I don't see it compared to the monks in my guild. They regularly parse 100-200 dps higher than me on raids. I'm 4-4-8 in wis, sta, int, using both twin calamites, one relic piece (legs) and a few excarnate. </blockquote>A lot of this is probably from the buffs you receive (or, in this case, don't receive). The monk comes pre-hasted whereas you may not have many buffs at all. On fights where they get to cycle their CAs twice (as was said above, about 35 seconds) our CA damage is almost equal, but their AA damage will be higher.

[Bumpy]

Toe-to-toe I think our CA damage is significantly higher.  What we lack is a monk's AA damage. My guild has a great monk who parses extremely well, so I know firsthand that it can be hard to keep up.  I think the myth that bruisers parse higher stemmed from the pre-eof period when we had some significant advantages.  Pre-Eof, monk's autoattack was limited by the lower haste cap.  Now, with DPS adornments, gear providing DPS/haste procs, double attack buffs, etc...Auto-attack damage keeps increasing while CA damage doesn't change much.  True we have the knockouts AA line but only two CAs: KO combo & stomp are significant upgrades.  Another advantage for monks is that autoattack is less affected by lag, which can really screw us up when we use KO combo.  In pretty much every case, a weapon you equip would do more DPS in the hands of a monk because of the haste difference - and as better weapons come out, the gap increases.  All in all though, I think the classes are fairly balanced if you play to a bruisers strength and work towards maximizing CA damage.

[Aull]

<p>Just up front my bruiser is lvl 53 not leg/fabled, mostly app iv ca's. My cousin has a monk same lvl same gear as I. We are both spect the same on aa's 4,4, & 8 strgth and 4,4,4,6, and 1. I think that I hold nothing compaired to the monk as far a dps goes. He is roughly sitting at 54 or better on haste. My bruiser is at 15 haste and 39 dps. Anytime we are in the fight I will usually pull and hope to tank since he can heal me, then if needed i can heal myself. I can only hold the aggro for about 6 secs then he is taking over. He has his passive taunt (similar to my rousing cry I think) off, and doesn't use his taunt. What can I say, he is just swinging faster and double attacking more due to the haste which just flat draws aggro to him. I don't find that a bad thing since he can avoid hits and do damage, but I have a hard time believing that bruisers are superior to monks. I really like my bruiser...very very much, but I think for damage the monks just out do me at least. I on the other hand may not doing something correct. I also feel that is takes my bruiser's ca's forever to refresh and I feel that is where the monks have an advantage over me. That is just my two coppers worth.</p>

[Bulzie]

Umm, this is exactly the thread I was looking for as I have a 44 monk and was thinking hard about switching to Bruiser because I heard they did much more dmg.  But from reading the posts above, looks like there might not be that big of a difference.  I do alot of soloing with my monk so maybe that is a good reason to betray?  Bruisers do better soloing? Also don't both classes get invisibility, FD and group FD at higher levels?  Are their any other special abilities at are useful that bruiser gets that monk does not?

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Both get FD. Monks get Invis... but draining all your power vs having to get totems is kinda iffy in calling it an "edge". Totems are far to easy to get. Ancient spells are different too. Monks get Group FD, Tsunami (12s of all autoattack being riposted/parried), a magical damage ward in the 3k area i believe, and a cone or line AE that does damage per second and stifles the target or some such. Bruisers get Sonic Fist (a "Warp to target, smack em, and warp back" ability), Close Mind (30s immunity to all things crowd control.. including stun, daze, stifle, mez, root, fear, etc), and Stone Deaf (3 hit immunity to spell damage that does more than 10% of your health). Oh, and Knockout Combination... which is 16s of adding damage and stun to every Combat Art used... as if we needed more burst damage, bwahaha. AA-wise, Bruisers get Drag, which has a number of uses in all manners of play. Like being able to pull a mob to a specific spot for people, or to pull it off others they shouldn't be on (like lost aggro). Or to pull it out of walls/floors/ceilings when they bug out... Or to combine with Sonic Fists to warp in, grab the guy you want, and warp back leaving any adds confused and having to run after you. Which leaves the option of your friends smacking the thing you dragged back and you Feigning off the adds... voila, single pulled within a social aggro situation. All within a few seconds too. I'm honestly not sure what Monks get to compare to Drag in your EoF AA's... I haven't looked at them since EoF Beta really... Bruisers also get a Mez on top of the Fear both Brawlers get.. which means even more crowd control for soloing. Umm... differences.... hmm... our Taunt Proc does damage so you have that extra little bit proc damage when soloing too (as opposed to pure taunt and thus useless when soloing). That's about all I can think of for gameplay/ability differences (other than the more useless EoF AA's). Am I missing anything guys?