could use some help =D

[Druid03]

<p>howdy, </p><p>i just started raiding with my wizard last week.....and im here looking for advice <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>i specd AGI/WIS and am going down heat/cold right now</p><p>my gear and spells are not the best (this is my 3rd alt, and i dont like spending dkp on alts =p)</p><p>average 1300dps zonewide, 2-4th spot in the raid</p><p>casting order is (on a regular solo target named):</p><p>icicles, convulsion, ball of lava, tempest, incapacitate, sunstrike, iradiate, ice nova (about time dispatch is on the mob) and repeat</p><p>doing that im at 1300-1500dps</p><p>this is the breakdown for my last raid (with trouby in group)</p><p><a href="http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z210/sapoinfinity/Sapo_FTH_6-4.png" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/...apo_FTH_6-4.png</a></p><p>any tips on how to improve my dps? thanks and sorry for the post number 10000 asking for tips =p</p><p>edit: have no clue why it doesnt let me post that pic and cuts my posts, maybe a post size thing</p>

[Nastharl]

Drop sunstrike unless you have literally NOTHING to cast.

[IllusiveThoughts]

<cite>Druid03 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>howdy, </p><p>i just started raiding with my wizard last week.....and im here looking for advice <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>i specd AGI/WIS and am going down heat/cold right now</p><p>my gear and spells are not the best (this is my 3rd alt, and i dont like spending dkp on alts =p)</p><p>average 1300dps zonewide, 2-4th spot in the raid</p><p>casting order is (on a regular solo target named):</p><p>icicles, convulsion, ball of lava, tempest, incapacitate, sunstrike, iradiate, ice nova (about time dispatch is on the mob) and repeat</p><p>doing that im at 1300-1500dps</p><p>this is the breakdown for my last raid (with trouby in group)</p><p><a href="http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z210/sapoinfinity/Sapo_FTH_6-4.png" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/...apo_FTH_6-4.png</a></p><p>any tips on how to improve my dps? thanks and sorry for the post number 10000 asking for tips =p</p><p>edit: have no clue why it doesnt let me post that pic and cuts my posts, maybe a post size thing</p></blockquote><p>ice sheild prior to pull,</p><p>drop forge of ro in pull spot prior to pull</p><p>if mob lives longer than 45s</p><p>use frigid gift</p><p>surging tempest (cast first so you get 3 ticks of damage with frigid gift 2 at initial cast 1 in 8s)</p><p>rending icicles</p><p>(mob should be dispatched by now)</p><p>freehand sorc Ice nova</p><p>If fusion is up cast fusion</p><p>fire proc buff</p><p>BOL</p><p>irradiate</p><p>firestorm</p><p>ice shield</p><p>Incapacitate</p><p>bol</p><p>rending icicles</p><p>irradiate</p><p>firestorm</p><p>convultions</p><p>ice shield</p><p>bol</p><p>irradiate</p><p>firestorm</p><p>dead.</p><p>something like that should work well.  Oh and when posting the damage chart try sorting it by the damage column first, otherwise you get a jumbled [Removed for Content] of a pie chart like you posted and makes it difficult to read.</p>

[simpwrx02]

Also cast ice shiled every time it is up... crazy damage/power/casting time ratios

[Druid03]

<p>thanks, i really appreciate it</p><p>i'll try this tonight</p><p>oh and the damage chart....nice, i never thought of sorting it by damage....it does make it easier to look at that way <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[setesh]

<p>As others have said, make sure you're always casting your highest dps spell.  There's really no alternative to knowing the average dps of each an every one of your spells.  Get yourself a spreadsheet program and compute the average damage for each spell, compensating for crits, and divide it by the casting time to compute each spell's dps.  You may find the results surprising (as IllusiveThoughts pointed out, even Firestorm, an AoE spell, is higher dps against a single target than either Sunstrike and Fiery Convulsions).</p><p>I'm currently experimenting with STR/WIS and Fire/Cold.  For me, dps spells are ranked as follows from highest to lowest, not counting Catalyst:</p><p>Iceshield, Surging Tempest, Fusion, Ice Nova, Ball of Lava, Irradiate, Incapacitate, Rending Icicles, Firestorm, Glacial Wind, Sunstrike, Fiery Convlusions, Electrifying Flash.</p><p>(Yes, I left out Protoferno and Forge of Ro because I've yet to satisfactorily determine their dps.  Others may be able to help me here.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</p><p>Now of course there can be reasons to deviate from this order.  You probably want to lead with your debuff and you might not want to drop a Freehand+Catalyst+Fusion at the start of the fight.  And when fights are close to ending, you have to consider DoTs vs DDs (note: on long fights where a DoT is guaranteed to finish, you can treat them both as DD spells, which is why I compute DPS as a function of casting time).  But generally speaking, you want to stick with this order and always pick the highest dps spell at any given moment.</p>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<cite>setesh wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As others have said, make sure you're always casting your highest dps spell.  There's really no alternative to knowing the average dps of each an every one of your spells.  Get yourself a spreadsheet program and compute the average damage for each spell, compensating for crits, and divide it by the casting time to compute each spell's dps.  You may find the results surprising (as IllusiveThoughts pointed out, even Firestorm, an AoE spell, is higher dps against a single target than either Sunstrike and Fiery Convulsions).</p><p>I'm currently experimenting with STR/WIS and Fire/Cold.  For me, dps spells are ranked as follows from highest to lowest, not counting Catalyst:</p><p>Iceshield, Surging Tempest, Fusion, Ice Nova, Ball of Lava, Irradiate, Incapacitate, Rending Icicles, Firestorm, Glacial Wind, Sunstrike, Fiery Convlusions, Electrifying Flash.</p><p>(Yes, I left out Protoferno and Forge of Ro because I've yet to satisfactorily determine their dps.  Others may be able to help me here.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</p><p>Now of course there can be reasons to deviate from this order.  You probably want to lead with your debuff and you might not want to drop a Freehand+Catalyst+Fusion at the start of the fight.  And when fights are close to ending, you have to consider DoTs vs DDs (note: on long fights where a DoT is guaranteed to finish, you can treat them both as DD spells, which is why I compute DPS as a function of casting time).  But generally speaking, you want to stick with this order and always pick the highest dps spell at any given moment.</p></blockquote>ahh yeah forgot about incapaciatate, going to re-do rotation to include that & ice shield / ri, as I did the mock up spell chain i posted rather hastily.

[Dextera]

<p>I have Fiery Convulsions ranked above Firestorm on my chart (single mob encounters of course.)</p><p>Fiery Convulsions: 1,216 Avg Dmg, 0.87s Cast Time, 0.5s Recovery</p><p>1216 / (.87 + .5) = 887 DPS Eff</p><p>Firestorm: 1535.5 Avg Dmg, 1.75s Cast Time, 0.5s Recovery</p><p>1535.5 / (1.75 + .5) = 682 DPS Eff</p><p>Descrepency may be caused by different AA specs. Agi/Wis here. Heat 24, Cold 26.</p>

[IllusiveThoughts]

Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><p>I have Fiery Convulsions ranked above Firestorm on my chart (single mob encounters of course.)</p><p>Fiery Convulsions: 1,216 Avg Dmg, 0.87s Cast Time, 0.5s Recovery</p><p>1216 / (.87 + .5) = 887 DPS Eff</p><p>Firestorm: 1535.5 Avg Dmg, 1.75s Cast Time, 0.5s Recovery</p><p>1535.5 / (1.75 + .5) = 682 DPS Eff</p><p>Descrepency may be caused by different AA specs. Agi/Wis here. Heat 24, Cold 26.</p></blockquote>what rank is your firestorm and firey convultions?

[Dextera]

Both are A3. (Can't find the Masters to save my life.)

[setesh]

Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I have Fiery Convulsions ranked above Firestorm on my chart (single mob encounters of course.)</blockquote><p>As well you should because that is correct and I am wrong.  I incorrectly entered the data for Fiery Convulsions (I mistakenly used the recast of 8s instead of the duration of 14s to compute the number of ticks and got 5 instead of <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  The correct order is now:</p><p>Ice Shield, Surging Tempest, Fusion, Ice Nova, Ball of Lava, Irradiate, Incapacitate, Fiery Convulsions, Rending Icicles, Firestorm, Glacial Wind, Sunstrike, Electrifying Flash.</p><p>Assuming I don't have any other errors.  Haha.</p><p>On the side, has anyone come up with a reasonable way to factor in resistability?</p>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<cite>setesh wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I have Fiery Convulsions ranked above Firestorm on my chart (single mob encounters of course.)</blockquote><p>As well you should because that is correct and I am wrong.  I incorrectly entered the data for Fiery Convulsions (I mistakenly used the recast of 8s instead of the duration of 14s to compute the number of ticks and got 5 instead of <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  The correct order is now:</p><p>Ice Shield, Surging Tempest, Fusion, Ice Nova, Ball of Lava, Irradiate, Incapacitate, Fiery Convulsions, Rending Icicles, Firestorm, Glacial Wind, Sunstrike, Electrifying Flash.</p><p>Assuming I don't have any other errors.  Haha.</p><p>On the side, has anyone come up with a reasonable way to factor in resistability?</p></blockquote>small side note, that computing the highest dps spells, and just blindly casting them in the order you presented will not net the best dps, you really have to decide what to use guaged on how long the mob lives(IE 2 ice novas vs 1), how much power you have, and how much hate can you generate without dieing.

[Druid03]

<p>thanks for all the info</p><p>i've been playn with this last night, and made my highest dps spells list today (i didnt think Iceshield dishd out so much dps)</p><p>i wasnt able to keep up with Illusive's spell order, Firestorm ate up my power too fast...and the troub didnt make it to the raid, so no regen for me</p><p>i'll try it again tonight and see how it goes</p>

[Dextera]

<cite>IllusiveThoughts wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>setesh wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I have Fiery Convulsions ranked above Firestorm on my chart (single mob encounters of course.)</blockquote><p>As well you should because that is correct and I am wrong.  I incorrectly entered the data for Fiery Convulsions (I mistakenly used the recast of 8s instead of the duration of 14s to compute the number of ticks and got 5 instead of <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  The correct order is now:</p><p>Ice Shield, Surging Tempest, Fusion, Ice Nova, Ball of Lava, Irradiate, Incapacitate, Fiery Convulsions, Rending Icicles, Firestorm, Glacial Wind, Sunstrike, Electrifying Flash.</p><p>Assuming I don't have any other errors.  Haha.</p><p>On the side, has anyone come up with a reasonable way to factor in resistability?</p></blockquote>small side note, that computing the highest dps spells, and just blindly casting them in the order you presented will not net the best dps, you really have to decide what to use guaged on how long the mob lives(IE 2 ice novas vs 1), how much power you have, and how much hate can you generate without dieing. </blockquote><p>But by logical math, isn't casting the highest DPS spells guarenteed to net your max DPS? DoTs are the only consideration that could be used for length of fight. Since their actual "burst" dmg is limited, their Dmg Eff is calculated assuming the entire DoT length is run. However, DDs with the highest DPS should be casted when available, since their Dmg Eff and Burst Dmg is equivalent. So you really can run down the chart and maximize DPS. DoTs need to be considered how long they'll tick. Here's a simplified chart of the one I use for clarification. (You need MS Excel to read the spreadsheet, since it's not finalized.)</p><p><a href="http://dextera.eq2.googlepages.com/DPSefficiency.xls" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://Dextera.EQ2.googlepages.com/...Sefficiency.xls</a></p><p>This is excluding factors such as hate thresholds, as this factor varies greatly by encounter and raid. </p>

[setesh]

<cite>IllusiveThoughts wrote:</cite><blockquote>small side note, that computing the highest dps spells, and just blindly casting them in the order you presented will not net the best dps, you really have to decide what to use guaged on how long the mob lives(IE 2 ice novas vs 1), how much power you have, and how much hate can you generate without dieing. </blockquote><p>I think you point out important exceptions to the rule.  If you are in danger of pulling aggro and dying, perhaps you should not be trying to maximize your dps.  Also, if a mob is near death it may be better to cast a small DD than waste time casting a DoT that won't finish.  Finally, as Druid03 discovered, truly maximizing your dps means means spending a <i>lot</i> of power.  Casting Firestorm can be very mana intensive and if you're out of power halfway through the fight then your overall damage suffers.  For long fights, efficiency can become more imporant than dps in terms of the amount of damage you do.</p><p>However, in the majority of cases, knowing the dps of your spells and always casting the best one will result in the best overall dps.</p>

[TheBu]

<p>"But by logical math, isn't casting the highest DPS spells guarenteed to net your max DPS?" no, it the easiest way to pick the spells but the spells are all just part of a puzzle u put together. sometimes when putting the pieces together u find gaps if u only use highest dps spells from the recast timmers. </p>

[Dextera]

<cite>TheBuzZ wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>"But by logical math, isn't casting the highest DPS spells guarenteed to net your max DPS?" no, it the easiest way to pick the spells but the spells are all just part of a puzzle u put together. sometimes when putting the pieces together u find gaps if u only use highest dps spells from the recast timmers. </p></blockquote> What? lol.

[IllusiveThoughts]

Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>TheBuzZ wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>"But by logical math, isn't casting the highest DPS spells guarenteed to net your max DPS?" no, it the easiest way to pick the spells but the spells are all just part of a puzzle u put together. sometimes when putting the pieces together u find gaps if u only use highest dps spells from the recast timmers. </p></blockquote> What? lol.</blockquote><p>basically, he said that casting the highest dps spells due to differences in re-cast timers, leave's gaps to fill, sometimes its more beneficial to rotate spells around casting other spells so that you aren't in a "dead" spot waiting on a refresh timer. </p><p>I'm referring to those 1.0 sec gaps that happen all to frequently...hmm do i toss on a firey convul, rending icicles, ice sheild, or wait for BOL to refresh and loose 0.5s of its recast timer.</p><p>Also AE situations, how many mobs are in the encounter (1alive and 1almost dead, 2 alive and 50% hp, full HP, 2 mobs left , 3 mobs left...adds...what buffs are on me, what are on the tank, how much agro does he have, how much agro do i have, how much power do i have...ect) there's so many situations it would take forever (or one bored mofo) to sit down and compute the best dps in every situation.  I did it the fun way, by experimenting with different casting orders until I arrived at some general casting cycles for most ae encounters and parsing my results.</p><p>Theres a point (even for me) where crunching numbers stops being "fun" and starts becomming work. </p>

[Alku]

The thing with power line is it's completely complimentary. After a manaburn on, say, a raid trash mob I can use the enhanced spells from that line to recover my power very quickly so that it's almost a non-issue. The largest hinderance on manaburn is the 5 minute recast timer, but that is reduced greatly by the agility line if you end up using it. I would never go power if you dont' have the agility line (it also helps a ton with recovering mana fast).

[Dextera]

<p>Easily Illu, from your selection, you cast Ice Shield. It's our highest DPS Eff spell on a single target encounter. Otherwise, it's easy to see in a 1s gap what you spell you should cast by looking at the descripancy in DPS Eff of the highest available spell, and the next closest to refreshing. Merely add 1s to the cast time of the spell, and do some easy rounding math in your head.</p><p>This class is more complicated than many think. lol.</p>

[Mareth]

I've found that in the middle of a fight (that is, not on, or shortly after pull), the mob will be so debuffed that I'll very rarely get all 3 hits from Iceshield, usually 1 or 2, but sometimes not even a single one. This is all on single-target, on encounter mobs I've yet to see it stay up for the duration <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And to the poster being worried about forge of ro and protoferno, the beauty of these two, is that you can cast forge of ro before the mob has been pulled, and you can cast protoferno while the mob is on the way. Obviously don't do this if it get you killed everytime <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> it depends how the tank pulls etc. You'll lose a bit of damage on each spell, since they wont be hitting the mob for the full duration, but you wont get a lot of aggro either (just the aggro from actually casting the spells), and neither can be outright resisted.

[IllusiveThoughts]

Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><p>Easily Illu, from your selection, you cast Ice Shield. It's our highest DPS Eff spell on a single target encounter. Otherwise, it's easy to see in a 1s gap what you spell you should cast by looking at the descripancy in DPS Eff of the highest available spell, and the next closest to refreshing. Merely add 1s to the cast time of the spell, and do some easy rounding math in your head.</p><p>This class is more complicated than many think. lol.</p></blockquote><p> heh its not an easy choice, we've all been there, and its more complex than simply looking at a dps calculation.</p><p>In that circumstance you have to also consider </p><p>#1 is ice shield still up on my maintained window, how many times has it procced, is refreshing it worth it if it still has 2 procs left when there are other spells to cast</p><p>#2 how many ticks left on firey convultions,  should I refresh the dot</p><p>#3 how long do I have left on RI, should I refresh the dot/debuff so that my next spell(s) will receive benefit from it and not run out while casting.</p><p>#4 how much hp is left on the mob, do I really want to cast a dot / debuff / mele proc on tank...? will it live long enough to reap the benefits from it?</p><p>The point was that its good to have an idea of what spells are high dps spells, but they are only high dps in the right sutations.  Knowing when to cast is just as important as what to cast.</p>

[duuf]

I like Ilu's casting order very similar to mine cept: I would get in a BOL before the Nova, its our best reusable spell and will almost be refreshed while nova is casting. Fusion is down further in the order for agro control.  Back to back Nova/Fusion either my wiz dies or if he is lucky enough to be amended, the pally as he fights for his life sends profane remarks about my next chance at getting amends or a rez.

[IllusiveThoughts]

<cite>duuf wrote:</cite><blockquote> Back to back Nova/Fusion either my wiz dies or if he is lucky enough to be amended, the pally as he fights for his life sends profane remarks about my next chance at getting amends or a rez. </blockquote> THATS THE BEST PART! die pallyboy die!