Everquest PVP dev team, read this.

[mgneville1]

<p>Before you read this, I know very good and well that this topic has been discussed many times. Lets just do it again. As you and every new player to a player vs player server knows, level locking ganking is out of control. As a level 17 swashbuckler with adept I spells and treasured gear, I once tried to defend oakmyst forest from a level 14 brigand slaughtering lower levels. So I get the jump on him, he destroys me before he leaves green, so I try it again, and he gets to yellow, again and again I am destroyed by a lower level player with incredible gear exploiting the rule system for the satisfaction of knowing he is frustrating many people. So what do you do to fix the problem?</p><p>Implement a system to allow higher level players to defend lower ones being slaughtered. I know the level range restrictions is supposed to be perfect, but its not. If someone has killed 5 lower level players in Antonica, he should become eligible for attack from a higher level of player, the more he kills, the more he has to watch out for. 5 kills 5 more levels, 10 kills 10 more levels. This system should be in place for any home continent zone. The way this would fix the problem is really obvious, who needs to destroy 50 people with no penalty anyway? And another way to fix ganking with the groups. Make it a dishonorable kill (reduces faction with home city) to kill anyone who has not been in a group engaged in pvp combat for the last 10 minutes. I'm sure everyone can come up with a "flaw" to my ideas, but its not as if they can't be tweaked. Other than that, if you are the a level locker who is a part of the problem (you know who you are), get a [Removed for Content] life. ================================================== ====== I have come here to <b>chew bubblegum</b> and <b>kick [Removed for Content]</b>. And I'm all out of <b>bubblegum</b>. </p>

[Novusod]

Seriously not to be rude or anything but L2P. There is no excuse to still be in treasured and Adept I's at level 17. Adept 3 spells are easy enough to get and the Legendary Dwarven Ringmail tuinic is free if you bother to do the quest. Don't expect everything to be handed to you with no effort on your part. It would be down right loony to cater to such carebear attitudes.

[ladyvengeance]

<p>Exactly. What do you expect? He's in Oakmyst. I'm a Q, but I imagine it's a bit of a pain to get there and there's almost no pvp in Oakmyst, so he better be a bit twinked if he expects to survive with all the Qs doing quests in there. </p><p>Buy better gear and then adorn your gear. Get adept 3 spells, even masters if you can find them. </p><p>And I especially love this bit:</p><p><blockquote>And another way to fix ganking with the groups. Make it a dishonorable kill (reduces faction with home city) to kill anyone who has not been in a group engaged in pvp combat for the last 10 minutes.</blockquote></p><p>This made me laugh. This has to be one of the most asanine ideas yet. How are we supposed to know if he hasn't been in a group? How about we go a step further and list the gear and stats of every Q or Freep you come across??</p>

[mgneville1]

ladyvengeance wrote: <blockquote><p>Exactly. What do you expect? He's in Oakmyst. I'm a Q, but I imagine it's a bit of a pain to get there and there's almost no pvp in Oakmyst, so he better be a bit twinked if he expects to survive with all the Qs doing quests in there. </p><p>Buy better gear and then adorn your gear. Get adept 3 spells, even masters if you can find them. </p><p>And I especially love this bit:</p><blockquote>And another way to fix ganking with the groups. Make it a dishonorable kill (reduces faction with home city) to kill anyone who has not been in a group engaged in pvp combat for the last 10 minutes.</blockquote><p>This made me laugh. This has to be one of the most asanine ideas yet. How are we supposed to know if he hasn't been in a group? How about we go a step further and list the gear and stats of every Q or Freep you come across?? </p></blockquote> Easy, they program it in to tell you. Do you think its worth faction/loot/experience/status to kill an untwinked solo character with 6 fabled out characters with ungodly AA's? <cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously not to be rude or anything but L2P. There is no excuse to still be in treasured and Adept I's at level 17. Adept 3 spells are easy enough to get and the Legendary Dwarven Ringmail tuinic is free if you bother to do the quest. Don't expect everything to be handed to you with no effort on your part. It would be down right loony to cater to such carebear attitudes. </blockquote> Are you kidding me? If I'm leveling at a below average pace, and getting ganked like I do, I would have like 10 gold max after buying/looting what I presently have. Treasured and adept I spells are fairly common until the 30's or so. And I think as a player with a few AA's, a master II spell, and average gear I should be able to knock a player three levels below me, a little under green after three or four fights. I have a few legendary items anyway, but on average, its treasured. Unless you farm or have platinum handed to you, there is no way to get gear like that unless you are level locked for hours on hours. I just want to get past those levels and advance my character like everyone else. <p> ================================================== ====== I have come here to <b>chew bubblegum</b> and <b>kick [I cannot control my vocabulary]</b>. And I'm all out of <b>bubblegum</b>. </p> <div align="right"> </div>

[ladyvengeance]

Then go to a PVE server. "Everyone else" is not doing what you do, especially on a pvp server. Just because you are a higher level than someone does not mean you will win the fight. What would be the point of pvp if that happened? Besides, you attacked this Brigand, so it was hardly a gank. I take great pleasure in killing people 4 or 5 levels above me. If I gank a guy who is 4 levels below me it's just not as fun or rewarding.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

<cite>mgneville1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> ladyvengeance wrote: <blockquote><p>Exactly. What do you expect? He's in Oakmyst. I'm a Q, but I imagine it's a bit of a pain to get there and there's almost no pvp in Oakmyst, so he better be a bit twinked if he expects to survive with all the Qs doing quests in there. </p><p>Buy better gear and then adorn your gear. Get adept 3 spells, even masters if you can find them. </p><p>And I especially love this bit:</p><blockquote>And another way to fix ganking with the groups. Make it a dishonorable kill (reduces faction with home city) to kill anyone who has not been in a group engaged in pvp combat for the last 10 minutes.</blockquote><p>This made me laugh. This has to be one of the most asanine ideas yet. How are we supposed to know if he hasn't been in a group? How about we go a step further and list the gear and stats of every Q or Freep you come across?? </p></blockquote> Easy, they program it in to tell you. Do you think its worth faction/loot/experience/status to kill an untwinked solo character with 6 fabled out characters with ungodly AA's? <cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously not to be rude or anything but L2P. There is no excuse to still be in treasured and Adept I's at level 17. Adept 3 spells are easy enough to get and the Legendary Dwarven Ringmail tuinic is free if you bother to do the quest. Don't expect everything to be handed to you with no effort on your part. It would be down right loony to cater to such carebear attitudes. </blockquote> Are you kidding me? If I'm leveling at a below average pace, and getting ganked like I do, I would have like 10 gold max after buying/looting what I presently have. Treasured and adept I spells are fairly common until the 30's or so. <b><i>And I think as a player with a few AA's, a master II spell, and average gear I should be able to knock a player three levels below me, a little under green after three or four fights.</i></b> I have a few legendary items anyway, but on average, its treasured. <b><i>Unless you farm</i></b> or have platinum handed to you, there is no way to get gear like that unless you are level locked for hours on hours. I just want to get past those levels and advance my character like everyone else. <p>================================================== ====== I have come here to <b>chew bubblegum</b> and <b>kick [I cannot control my vocabulary]</b>. And I'm all out of <b>bubblegum</b>. </p><div align="right"> </div> </blockquote><p> Ok to the first part I selected:  that's what you THINK, not how the game works.  You zerged a green, that's funny you problay made his day.  I love it when red's zerg any of my toons, its fun.  Where you have adept 1's and a master 2 and average gear, I bet he followed your advise of 'Unless you farm' and DID farm to get his gear and afford his spells, because I bet that brigand was in at least MC (probaly just mc, I personally dont buy more than that, and try to avoid even that since some of the treasured is just as good or better, this includes silver rings etc...there is far better available alot cheaper), and that he had adept 3's, more likely masters.  He also probaly has more than 'just a few aa'.  My only goal was to have the faction needed to start off in basic pvp gear, and to have the blackguard line finished by 20, when I saw I had both done, I sped up my questing.  I did not grind debt to guards after level 11, I just quested and pvp'd.  It's fun, try it and you will feel rewarded when you get to 20's and suddenly you realise, that super awesome piece of fabled someone's wearing...cost like 2 gold because he had the faction to get it on the low.  Then you loot a few crappy masters and have them xmuted, and boom, you have full adornments.  Try that and stop complaining bro, your level 17...I recommend grinding out to 25 aa to finish the STR line and become a healer killer.  After that get quested armor / jeweler, which is the bomb in tier 3. </p>

[WasFycksir]

<p>Sorry to blow up, but I am so sick of people whining about level lockers and twinks.</p><p>THEY STARTED FROM SQUARE ONE TOO AT SOME POINT.</p><p>So if they can twink, and level lock and be uber, why can't you.  I will tell you why.  Because like everyone these days you just want everything handed to you!</p><p>Play awhile and work for your gear and your AA's.  Don't drag the other guy down because he has the time, ambition, skill and tenancity to become uber.</p><p>So you got beat by a better equipped, likely more skilled player, and this suprises you why?</p><p>If you want totally equal matches go in that stupid arena thing where you use your house pets, no twinks in there, no fun either imo.</p><p>Yes, I know there are plat buyers and sellers that skew our nirvana, but most players are honest and have earned their plat the hard way.  </p><p>It may be a lev 70 earing the plat for a 14 brigand, but it's still honest.  And it's something anyone can do, but again, and here it comes, YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY SPEND TIME AND EFFORT to get to that point.</p><p>So quit whining on the forums, get back in game, earn some cash and practice.   Because frankly this type of attitude disgusts me.</p>

[XeroXs84]

pls sony devs dont waste your time reading this, there is way more important stuff Anyway if u guys would read the dev-posts now and then (theres a nice dev-post-tracker on the forum main page), u would know that in the next patch there is a change for all the twinkers... <blockquote>As part of the balancing adjustments for pvp in the next update, I am looking into some ways to hopefully curb some of the added strength level lockers gain.  More details will be provided on all of this once it goes to Test PvP but I just wanted to point out that I am working on a lot of your top complaints <img src="http://www.newdawn-eq2.eu/forum/Smileys/classic/wink.gif" border="0"></blockquote>

[Cantilena]

Do a little work.  Get some decent gear.  Or just go back to your blue server where you can win against mobs with crap gear and upgrades.

[kreepr]

Fizzie@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>pls sony devs dont waste your time reading this, there is way more important stuff Anyway if u guys would read the dev-posts now and then (theres a nice dev-post-tracker on the forum main page), u would know that in the next patch there is a change for all the twinkers... <blockquote>As part of the balancing adjustments for pvp in the next update, I am looking into some ways to hopefully curb some of the added strength level lockers gain.  More details will be provided on all of this once it goes to Test PvP but I just wanted to point out that I am working on a lot of your top complaints <img src="http://www.newdawn-eq2.eu/forum/Smileys/classic/wink.gif" border="0"></blockquote> </blockquote> <span style="color: #ff0000">How about showing a link. </span>

[Bozidar]

<cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fizzie@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>pls sony devs dont waste your time reading this, there is way more important stuff Anyway if u guys would read the dev-posts now and then (theres a nice dev-post-tracker on the forum main page), u would know that in the next patch there is a change for all the twinkers... <blockquote>As part of the balancing adjustments for pvp in the next update, I am looking into some ways to hopefully curb some of the added strength level lockers gain.  More details will be provided on all of this once it goes to Test PvP but I just wanted to point out that I am working on a lot of your top complaints <img src="http://www.newdawn-eq2.eu/forum/Smileys/classic/wink.gif" border="0"></blockquote> </blockquote> <span style="color: #ff0000">How about showing a link. </span></blockquote>dev tracker, ftw.. it's in the 384843 page thread about level locking near the top of this forum.

[XeroXs84]

<cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000">How about showing a link. </span></blockquote> Must be so hard to look into the dev tracker <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> anyway: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/listByGroup.m?group_id=122" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Dev Tracker</a> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=364269&post_id=4130662" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The quoted Post</a>

[Raaziell]

Some people work harder then others and thus become better then others. It's called competition.  And competition is what you find on a PVP server. I hate to say this, but you should return to a blue server where you can defend Oakmist from the mobs that can't kill you this easy if they are green. You want to kick [I cannot control my vocabulary]? Then follow the advice of the people and go farm. In this game  GEAR> Skill. Bad gear =  bad performance. Stop crying ot for help from the SOE team.

[Arsmaxx]

i think the OP uses the word 'exploit' in the wrong context a few times..

[convict]

<p>As you can see, level lockers who gank noobs are defending the ganker you post about. Dont think for a minute, after LV has spent 20 plat on a level 11 warden that shes not going to defend it.. It's not because she ganks noobs all day long because its easy, then runs if another twinky shows up, but she's decked out like that to defend herself.. LOL..</p><p>Easymode, thats what they want, they want to know that thier 100% sure they will win, thats why they lock, kill themselves by attacking guards over and over and if it looks like a fair fight... thier outta there, the marathon is on...</p>

[dr4gonUK]

ibtl.

[Hon]

<p>The problem that keeps getting overlooked in this whole "level locking" issue is that it discourages new players so much.  Without new players who will the level lockers have to gank?  There needs to be solution for both the old veterans who are doing the ganking and the new players looking to try EQ2 for the first time.  Otherwise, you will eventually over hunt the newbie areas and new players will stop coming to EQ2 for PvP.  </p><p>Just my take on the issue.  </p>

[tass]

lol I think they stopped coming a long time ago which was the reason they had to merge the servers to pick up the slack. And sadly in this game since there is no equipment status where you only have so much to use you can become a god on pvp. So if ya don't have MINIMUM master crafted and all adept 3 you aint gonna win even against a green.

[mgneville1]

The problem has never been about the fact that charcters with better gear beat characters with lesser gear. The problem lies with uber characters mindlessly destroying people who have had no oppurtunity to defend themselves or even run. And that should be allowed completly, I agree with what everyone who has bashed my playing style about in that department, but don't you think that those who do that should have some kind of handicap in order to restore balance in each zone eventually? Its ridiculous when a person accumulates 6% debt trying to run 200 meters in Gfay during peak hours. The players that do that should be exposed to more danger, thats how games typically work, More risk=more reward. The problem is the players who talk about great they are reduce the risk of death to such a minimum that they aren't even playing the same game as a person who hasn't had that oppurtunity. I like to pvp, and I don't like to be one shotted in the back by the same person five times sprinting towards a quest npc so I can get that sword that might bring me .01% closer to ever being able to defend myself.

[Raaziell]

<cite>mgneville1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem has never been about the fact that charcters with better gear beat characters with lesser gear. The problem lies with uber characters mindlessly destroying people who have had no oppurtunity to defend themselves or even run. And that should be allowed completly, I agree with what everyone who has bashed my playing style about in that department, but don't you think that those who do that should have some kind of handicap in order to restore balance in each zone eventually? Its ridiculous when a person accumulates 6% debt trying to run 200 meters in Gfay during peak hours. The players that do that should be exposed to more danger, thats how games typically work, More risk=more reward. The problem is the players who talk about great they are reduce the risk of death to such a minimum that they aren't even playing the same game as a person who hasn't had that oppurtunity. I like to pvp, and I don't like to be one shotted in the back by the same person five times sprinting towards a quest npc so I can get that sword that might bring me .01% closer to ever being able to defend myself. </blockquote><p> Funny, because your opening post clearly states that you jumped the guy several times, and payed for it, not that you were stalked by the griefer and killed at each opportunity. </p><p>There are better ways to remove "<i>uber characters mindlessly destroying people who have had no oppurtunity to defend themselves or even run</i>" simply by uniting with those you tryed to valiantly defend and going after him at once. Works better then whining.</p>

[natasha]

I agree with both the OP, and the second poster. It really isn't that hard for someone to harvest rares to get fully mastercrafted gear, and farm for treasured and fabled items to make adornments. Ganking happens at all levels and tiers, and level locking has very little to do with that. Even if you took level locking away you will always have higher levels ganking. Would it have been any different if it was a lvl 20 in treasured that was ganking lvl 16's? I think not. Players will always find a way to be cheap and work the system. I particularly enjoy fighting these people. I take names, I gear up...I GET EVEN!! Mwuhaha. The next time that level 14 twinker comes to kill my poor lvl 10 toon, I will call on the help of a couple others to help fight him-he will think twice next time. This is part of the whole excitement of PvP. It would be very boring if every class had the same DPS. the same strengths..if all gear was equal. That takes out the whole competitive edge for those of us who will work hard for every last AA point and piece of gear. My low level twinker did not buy plat...she farmed low level named endlessly...to get those fabled and legendary pieces of gear. Because someone else doesn't want to do that and will then be angry when I come to kill them and have a few more hit points? That doesnt' seem right either. Instead of crying foul and insisting that fabled gear be removed, perhaps people could go out and do a little bit of work themselves to get their own fabled gear. If the game gets too easy...it loses interest for alot of people. I do not believe in taking away the ability to level lock, it's my favorite part of the game and I disable combat and get debt xp on ALL my toons...the majority of them being on PvE servers. I could however, see a solution close to what the OP suggests, such as 'dishonorable kills'. I think that Hookshotting someone into the guards should be dishonorable, jumping in to kill someone who is already going down fighting mobs should be, also someone who habitually 'farms' lower levels should have less fame, less status, and eventually earn some sort of dishonorable status perhaps for not fighting closer to their level more honorably. Bottom line, let the level lockers be...everyone should play the game the way they enjoy it as we're the ones paying for the game. Ganking will not stop if they take level locking away, and neither will higher levels farming lower levels. It's part of the whole "All's fair in Love and War...or PvP"

[Echgar]

<cite>mgneville1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Before you read this, I know very good and well that this topic has been discussed many times. Lets just do it again. </p></blockquote>I understand this thread is several days old, but let's keep the "level locking" discussion to <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=364269" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">this thread</a> please. Also, as a reminder, as stated in the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=176" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">forum rules</a>, threads addressed to the developers will most likely not be responded to.