Level Locking Importance Poll

[Squishy]

<p>Here is the question:  If level locking was removed from PVP in the next patch, would you continue to play EQ2?  For those of you who solely play T7 toons, this doesn't apply obviously.  I don't need to hear about how badly you can't want for more lvl 62 fodder with less AA.   Please no flaming other peoples reasons, or other level locking opinions, there are plenty of other threads out there for that.  I just want a plain and simple Yes or No, with a reason why you answered the way you did.   I also would like to know if there are circumstances that you would be ok with, like only pvp kills give exp when locked, while pve mobs work the same.  </p><p> I for one would most likely quit.  My reason is not because I have a permanately locked toon, or because I don't plan to level up my characters up to 70.  I truly enjoy the vast pvp and gank fests that occurr throughout the lower tiers, and this would be completely lost without level locking.  I also believe it would make pvp gear, impossible to get at lower tiers.    I play a guardian...so I don't say this from a gankers point of view.</p><p> So lets here it chums, How important is it to you?  Would you quit?</p>

[CresentBlade]

<p>I dont think your allowed to do polls on the forum friend. You  could reword it and perhaps have people explain their reasons. Not sure if this would be considered under the level locking thread or no, just a heads up for ya.<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I would stay and be super happy for it!</p>

[convict]

<p>I would stay, actually, I would be more likely to stay than now.. There would still be gank fest, only difference, the people getting ganked would have a fighting chance at level 70..</p><p>Why do you think DLW is so busy with Q gank groups? Easy kills... Thats why the lower tiers have more pvp, easier kills makes people feel better I guess..</p>

[ladyvengeance]

I would definitely quit. Level locking is the most fun aspect of the game. If they took that away then you're losing low-level pvp, and then there's no point in playing, IMO. Just go to a PVE server if you don't like level locking and stop your [Removed for Content] whining.

[KniteShayd]

<p>I'd go back to VSoH, bugs and all.</p><p>Level locking allows me to access all the quests I can for lower level, allows me to get good use out of my rare armor, and allows me to be immersed for longer periods of time.</p><p>I level locked an alt and he got up to 42 that way in the begining.  You still level pretty fast doing quests and discoveries.</p><p>I would prefer to not get XP at all when I am locked. I would like to lock Tradeskill XP too.  </p><p>It would never make sense to get rid of lvl locking.  Only those who wanna rush through to top level, so as not to get ganked, are the ones that want locking to be done away with.</p><p>This is an issue of preference, not necessity.</p>

[Zacarus]

Just curious, how would you remove level locking exactly?  You mean remove the ability to disable combat xp?

[Hon]

stay

[ladyvengeance]

Bandorn@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>I'd go back to VSoH, bugs and all.</p><p>Level locking allows me to access all the quests I can for lower level, allows me to get good use out of my rare armor, and allows me to be immersed for longer periods of time.</p></blockquote><p> This is a good point too -- rare gear. I probably spent close to 15 plat twinking out my lvl 11 warden, even more with my mage and monk. I can't justify spending 20 plat on fabled boots if level locking is disabled. PVP gear, too. It took me weeks to get enough faction to get the lvl 20 pvp gear. It's a complete waste of time if they get rid of level-locking.</p><p>IMO the people who are whining about level locking are the people who suck at pvp.</p>

[CresentBlade]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bandorn@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>I'd go back to VSoH, bugs and all.</p><p>Level locking allows me to access all the quests I can for lower level, allows me to get good use out of my rare armor, and allows me to be immersed for longer periods of time.</p></blockquote><p> This is a good point too -- rare gear. I probably spent close to 15 plat twinking out my lvl 11 warden, even more with my mage and monk. I can't justify spending 20 plat on fabled boots if level locking is disabled. PVP gear, too. It took me weeks to get enough faction to get the lvl 20 pvp gear. It's a complete waste of time if they get rid of level-locking.</p><p>IMO the people who are whining about level locking are the people who suck at pvp.</p></blockquote>Your gonna say people suck and you spent how much on your character? And what at level 11? Your the type of person why there is such a debate about locking. If you where just after AA you would not need to spend that much on a level 11 your out to gank new players that stand no chance, bravo. I hope you were just joking, just kidding right?

[ladyvengeance]

<p>I'm not joking at all. Having good gear and lots of AAs gives you an advantage in pvp. One of my characters is locked at 11 so 16s can't gank me, plus a few of my guildies are at the same lvl. I don't just gank noobs (although that is fun), but it's more fun doing it to a 16 or 17 who thinks they can win. This is a great part of the game.</p><p>As to spending that much on a character, well, I'm rich. And no I did not buy plat like some losers that play this game, but I have 4 crafters. My tailor alone makes 10 plat a week. Add that to farming masters and it's not too difficult to make money in this game.</p>

[Novusod]

If they removed level locking I would not quit EQ2 but I certainly would quit PvP. In order to be good at PvP you need to have good gear at all levels and the only way to do that is to grind a lot of faction in T2 and T3. Maybe if they lowered the faction requirements by 90% I would continue to PvP. Locked lowbie PvP is part of gearing out your charactor. PvP in the other Tiers would not be possible with out it. Your success in T4 PvP is dependent on slow leveling and gearing up in T2 and T3. Your success in T5 is dependent on T4 and T6 is dependent on T5. Even T7 is impossible without successes in previous Tiers unless you have a raiding guild at your disposal and then it takes months to get geared up. With level locking new players get greifed for a day or to in T2. Without level locking new players will get greifed for six months as they level up to 70 and then gear up through raiding and if they don't like to raid then they are nothing but cannon fodder forever. It is easy to see that the cure is worse than the disease here.

[CresentBlade]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm not joking at all. Having good gear and lots of AAs gives you an advantage in pvp. One of my characters is locked at 11 so 16s can't gank me, plus a few of my guildies are at the same lvl. I don't just gank noobs (although that is fun), but it's more fun doing it to a 16 or 17 who thinks they can win. This is a great part of the game.</p><p>As to spending that much on a character, well, I'm rich. And no I did not buy plat like some losers that play this game, but I have 4 crafters. My tailor alone makes 10 plat a week. Add that to farming masters and it's not too difficult to make money in this game.</p></blockquote><p>So your attacking players that cant attack you untill you attack first, you do know first strike in PvP greatly affects how the battle will go. If they could attack you as well as you attacking them I dont think it would be so much great fun<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Being able to attack first at any time of your choosing makes a HUGE difference in pvp. </p><p>But grats to you for attacking reds but I think more green/blue are dieing to lower level lockers then anything else and if half of them put that much money into their characters new players stand less then no chance. </p>

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they removed level locking I would not quit EQ2 but I certainly would quit PvP. In order to be good at PvP you need to have good gear at all levels and the only way to do that is to grind a lot of faction in T2 and T3. Maybe if they lowered the faction requirements by 90% I would continue to PvP. Locked lowbie PvP is part of gearing out your charactor. PvP in the other Tiers would not be possible with out it. Your success in T4 PvP is dependent on slow leveling and gearing up in T2 and T3. Your success in T5 is dependent on T4 and T6 is dependent on T5. Even T7 is impossible without successes in previous Tiers unless you have a raiding guild at your disposal and then it takes months to get geared up. With level locking new players get greifed for a day or to in T2. Without level locking new players will get greifed for six months as they level up to 70 and then gear up through raiding and if they don't like to raid then they are nothing but cannon fodder forever. It is easy to see that the cure is worse than the disease here. </blockquote>Low level lockers are not even giving new players a chance to get to teir 2 before running them off. All the other teirs learning curve does no matter if they quit before then.

[TniEradani]

<p>i'd go look for another game:</p><ul><li>tradeskilling would become a totally useless occupation</li><li>with the number of quests i do, i would be lvl 70 in no time flat and not know how to play my character, my skills would be lousy, my gear would really suck</li><li>i would be doing most of the quests in the world after they were grey</li></ul><p>i don't know why some people want me to "hurry up and lvl up". i hear things like "well, you'll miss a lot of content, but". BUT I DON'T WANT to miss any content. i started playing this game in dec 2006 and i enjoy doing the quests that lead me around discovering norrath. </p><p>the first toon i made - i didn't know about disabling combat xp then. she got off the island at lvl 9, did the longshadow quest, the graveyard, and the ruins. she was lvl 21 with 5 aa's and her skills were all less than 50%. like [Removed for Content] kind of toon is that? </p><p>now, i disable my combat xp the second i wake up on the island and this suits me just fine. i have lots of room for the racial quest and town discos and quests. i can do most of the quests in the newbie zones - and i start with the ones that give me the house items i want.</p><p>i have 9 crafters just into t4 and i like to harvest, so i can mc any of my toons. speed leveling will positively destroy tradeskilling for good and i've heard there's other games that have better tradeskilling anyways.</p>

[ladyvengeance]

In terms of low-level pvp, well, you're going to get ganked no matter what. It's just a part of playing the game. How you deal with that is entirely up to you. You can whine and cry about it if you want, or you can get better. When I first started this game I got ganked all the time. It just made me want to get better. It motivated me to be the best (don't get me wrong -- i'm nowhere near the best at pvp). I realize that there are younger players on this game but if players can't deal with getting ganked in the low tiers, especially when they first start, well, that's their problem. We were all there once. How we deal with it is up to us.

[Geynos]

I'd quit without level locking. Thats what i do in this game.

[TerminalEyesore]

<b><span style="color: #ffff00">Level locking has breathed new life into this game for me. I was totally bored with this game before I tried level locking, because I had missed so much content, and leveled up to a point so fast that there really wasn't much for me to do. SOOO many quests lost to me. Yes, this is on a PvP server. I really believe that level locking gives you the ability to fine tune your character in ways that you otherwise aren't able to do, which adds a LOT of versatility to the game that was sorely missing. And it gives people that are willing to actually work on their character the ability see the fruits of their labor in a real meaningful way. By not outleveling SOOO many quests so fast, you are able to use the questing aspect of the game (which is the main purpose if EQII, btw) to develop you character, and I really like that SoE has found a way to tie questing so closely to character development. Without that, there's just camping zone points or other hot spots, and that gets old REAL fast. If you're not willing to do a few quests, and put some time into your character, how can you possibly expect your character to match up? You always have to work to be as good or better than others, and its just plain no fun when everyone is the same, or even worse, NOT the same (balance wise), with no real way to do anything about it. Yes, locking widens the gap between characters that are tuned, and those that are not, but that is called versatility. This game can use as much of that as it can get, because the old cookie cutter way gameplay of everyone being the same, aside from armor and gear, was very boring, and left you completely at the mercy of the imbalance between the classes, with no way to counter them, and no hope of SoE doing anything about it either. I work a full time job, so don't think I'm saying this with LOTS of time to spare. Even with limited time, I really prefer choice of development in my gameplay to a cookie cutter style game. And I don't have a title either. I don't play the game for a title. But I DO like the idea that I can fight back now, even with the imbalances between the classes, due to intelligent character development on my part, starting at early levels. And I like that I don't have to wait WAY into the game to do this. I don't want to miss out on quests, and I DON'T want to have to wait till close to level 70 to get a signifigant number of AAs to develop my character with. I would quit LONG before then. It just gets too boring.</span></b>

[WasFycksir]

<p>Likely quit but...</p><p>If I didn't, here is what I would do.</p><p>I would PVE like the plague, I would still grab as much AA as possible, and I would still twink out new toons as much as possible.</p><p>Guess what, the cry babies would still cry, because people like me and the even more who are better skilled and have more time than me would still come crashing in and make the less able eat dirt.</p><p>And when I got out of the tier I wanted I would delete my least favorite toon and roll another.</p><p>People are always gonna get beat, and get beat bad, disabling locking will not cure this in any fashion.</p>

[MaNiaGG84]

I'd quit - I'm simply not interested in T7. Far too much raiding then cloud hop - err - pvping.

[Bozidar]

<p>I don't know.  I think i might try T7 for a bit, but honestly.. it's not attractive at all.</p><p>There are many logical and fair changes they can make to pvp without ruining it with a game-breaking change like the removal of xp locking.  Want to know who would be the most [Removed for Content] about it?</p><p>people on the pve servers.. </p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<p>I don't disagree with level locking, I disagree with those players who I see constantly allowing guards to kill them repeatedly in order to accumulate xp debt, as a way to avoid any leveling at all!</p><p>I have several alts, the lowest being a level 9 templar ATM.  Except for my main obviously, everyone is level locked for one reason or another.  It doesn't mean I don't advance them, because when a collection or quest finishes, up they go (except the lvl 9, for reasons of harvesting t1 transmutables with pvp immunity).</p><p>Using xp debt as a way to avoid natural advances due to completions of quests/collections/fame is to me an exploit.  I personally wuold prefer this to have negative faction consequences, where too many assaults on city guards would result in an aggroable situation, thereby making these types of players 'almost' exiles, having to accomplish city writs of some sort to regain faction with their home town. <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Of course, you'd still have players going out and 'killing themselves repeatedly' in some other fashion, such as drowning or running over and over into the lava in LS, for examples, but at least that situation would entail some risk, not the stay in your city 'pvp safe' situation as it is now.</p><p>I agree with those who say pvp faction gear requirements might need an adjustment, but not by much.  After all, if a toon is just played strictly for pvp requirements, not much leveling/questing is being done at all.  With the addition of AA points/bonuses, a possible solution might be gaining a level or two upon completing x amount of aa.</p><p>10-20, one level gained per 5 AA points, limit 5 levels.</p><p>20-30 one level gained per 5 AA points, limit 4 levels</p><p>30-40 one level gained per 5 AA points, limit 3 levels</p><p>40-50 one level gained per 5AA points, limit 2 levels</p><p>50-70 one level gained per 5AA points, limit 1 level</p><p>Shouldn't the gaining of certain types of skills = an increase in level?  Before, new skills were always gained upon attaining a new level, and this would adjust the gameplay more back in line with that.  </p><p>Possibly this could be tied to the completion of an AA skill bonus, such as when you unlock the next level in an AA tree, instead.  Thus allowing a player the choice to gradually increase their skills abilities, but rewarding upon completion by the addition of a level.</p><p>Some solution is needed to remove the ability of players to be 'rewarded' for accumulating xp debt as a way to avoid leveling.</p>

[FinalOrder]

<p>Just because you level fast in a game, doesnt mean you are not going to learn how to play your character, have crappy gear, or lousy skills. Harvesting doesnt give much experience (discoveries, killing the occasional mob, and defending youself from PvP are the only experience givers). If you do that every teir, you can have full mastercrafted and adept III's as you level your toon up. Sell whatever is left, and buy adornments. Bam. You are now leveling your character with pretty good gear backed up by adornments and full adept IIIs.</p><p>As for not knowing how to play you character because you level up.. mabye your just slow? If you pay attention to what your doing, examine your skills, read around on the forums a bit and pick up some information (of course, its up to you to decide what information is good or bad) and ask experienced people.. its not that hard. Some people just suck though, that cant be helped no matter how long you stay level 14, or whatever. Besides, alot of class defining skills dont show up until later levels.. cant learn how to use those when you locked at 22, 34, ect ect.</p><p>Its really not that hard to gain AA's at low level and not locking. I can gain up to 10 AA's by the time I hit 16 without locking or dieing. Thats not bad.</p><p>Rottk</p><p>Nagafen</p>

[orehn]

I'd go back to T7 and swashmode, furiously clicking my inspiration and en garde whenever I came across one of you hugging a cloud platform.  Then you'd die and I'd repeatedly hit the "x" key while standing over your corpse until you revived.  This would all take a total of four seconds and would be the most fun I have ever had in an MMO. I kid, of course-I'd keep playing my assassin and spread good cheer for all to hear! <3<3

[Bozidar]

Harry@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>Some solution is needed to remove the ability of players to be 'rewarded' for accumulating xp debt as a way to avoid leveling.</p></blockquote><p>The problem with this is coming up with a solution that doesn't trivialize dying more than it already is, and a solution that doesn't screw with the pve ruleset.</p><p>A simple solution would be to accept that people want to level as slowly as they choose, and give someone a "disable all xp" choice.  No more dying <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I can stay exactly the level i'm at, and grind out as many quests as i'm capable of, do as many disco's, ect.. who cares?  When i want to level up.. enable xp, and grind like everyone else.. </p>

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Harry@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>Some solution is needed to remove the ability of players to be 'rewarded' for accumulating xp debt as a way to avoid leveling.</p></blockquote><p>The problem with this is coming up with a solution that doesn't trivialize dying more than it already is, and a solution that doesn't screw with the pve ruleset.</p><p>A simple solution would be to accept that people want to level as slowly as they choose, and give someone a "disable all xp" choice.  No more dying <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I can stay exactly the level i'm at, and grind out as many quests as i'm capable of, do as many disco's, ect.. who cares?  When i want to level up.. enable xp, and grind like everyone else.. </p></blockquote>Why, exactly, should you gain the rewards of quests, gain the bonus of AA's and discoveries, for free, meaning no experience gained, and then claim when you are ready to level up you will grind by killing npc's over and over?  How about if you wish to stay the same level, you avoid quests, AA's, and discoveries, avoid xp by not killing anything, and stay in the tradeskill areas?  Upgraded gear and abilities can be bought off the broker, or even crafted by yourself, as a matter of fact, and you gain no adventure xp by doing so.  This is a game, and how much more is trivializing death when you actually get to come back over and over after dying?

[convict]

Notice they say they would quit...because it takes away thier advantage they have over noobs, when they spend 20 plat on a level 11 character.. Point made... Its about the advantage.. If it was about gear/spells then worry about those in T7..

[Eybietie]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't know.  I think i might try T7 for a bit, but honestly.. it's not attractive at all.</p></blockquote> not true. you can have fun at every tier. at t7 it´s mostly generals who run for their titles and stuff at lower tiers it starts at champion title i would say.

[Bozidar]

Harry@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Why, exactly, should you gain the rewards of quests, gain the bonus of AA's and discoveries, for free, meaning no experience gained, and then claim when you are ready to level up you will grind by killing npc's over and over?  How about if you wish to stay the same level, you avoid quests, AA's, and discoveries, avoid xp by not killing anything, and stay in the tradeskill areas?  Upgraded gear and abilities can be bought off the broker, or even crafted by yourself, as a matter of fact, and you gain no adventure xp by doing so.  This is a game, and how much more is trivializing death when you actually get to come back over and over after dying? </blockquote> alls i'm saying is that if we just embrace the fact that people want to level WHEN they level, rather than trying to fix the billion and a half ways they're going to try to slow themselves down... life will be much more simple.  no tricks no techniques required, and anyone can do it.

[Hon]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Novusod wrote:</p><p>Low level lockers are not even giving new players a chance to get to teir 2 before running them off. All the other teirs learning curve does no matter if they quit before then. </p></blockquote> This is true.  I know this happened to several people.  It will eventually kill the server if new blood is not flowing in.  Anyways, if new people stop coming, who will the gankers have to gank?  I suppose they can stand in the corner and gank themselves. 

[Bozidar]

<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Notice they say they would quit...because it takes away thier <span style="color: #006600">pvp in the fun tiers where pvp isn't borked</span>, when they spend 20 plat on a level 11 character.. Point made... Its about the <span style="color: #006600">fun</span>.. If it was about <span style="color: #006600">game breaking mechanics </span>then worry about those in T7..</blockquote>Fixed..

[Bozidar]

Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't know.  I think i might try T7 for a bit, but honestly.. it's not attractive at all.</p></blockquote> not true. you can have fun at every tier. at t7 it´s mostly generals who run for their titles and stuff at lower tiers it starts at champion title i would say.</blockquote><p> When they fix the fact that you can roll out six of class A (not pointing fingers) against a well balanced group with comperable gear/aa.. and the group who only has 1 class wins... </p><p>Then i'll have a reason to go to lvl 55+</p><p>Until then, i'll enjoy fun, challenging, and balanced pvp at all other tiers of the game</p>

[tass]

eh without level locking thered be no pvp. I mean I think its not the best thing but seriosly where else would you find any pvp besides t2 and t3? Oh theres some pvp in t4 and up but no where near. You gotta go looking here and there and everywhere for it. And when you do find it its the fabled bastages of the I got 100 plat and you don't lol. Ive been up at those levels so many times with near every class and everytime it was the boredom point and Id delete and reroll. Its just boring as hell up there PLUS this game isnt like vanguard. I dont care what anyone says there is no chance in hell for most of your classes in t6 and 7 lol. Not chars fault its just the game mechanics and classes weren't set up for it. And I believe all of the pvp videos more than prove it.

[deepruntramp]

Almost any change to PvP, outside of something utterly out of touch and [Removed for Content] like buffing Scouts/Druids, would make me play PvP more often. imo they can "fix" level locking without outright removing it.  I've said this before:  Hard stat caps and an AA cap by level would defang most of the idiocy that happens in T2.  That early in the game, a twinked character should be no more than 50% more powerful than a non-twinked character. While I can't speak for the devs, I would imagine that the current state of the PvP game isn't what they intended.  I believe the intent was to be like World of Warcraft, insofar that a PvP server is about playing through the game content along with the potential to attack and be attacked by the opposing faction.  It's expected the vast majority of players want to move through the content at their own pace and reach the level cap. That's not how PvP turned out.  T7 is so broken, or pwning hapless Darklight/Gfay/Isle targets so appealing, that everyone and their mother locks in T2 or early T3.  The economy shifts to compensate, and suddenly it's more profitable to stay locked in T2 farming T2 nodes and T2 nameds than it is to advance.  A crappy Level 14 Fabled that would be used for a few hours in PvE sells for more than a T5 Fabled that might be used for days of play or more.  Mastercrafted gear is through the roof expensive for being considered the "bare minimum" for PvP viability.  Blackened Iron clusters go for anywhere from 80g to 1p depending on how lucky the roving bots were that day.  Yeah, bots farming T2 zones. Ultimately, why would any informed player want to level up on a PvP server?  All the action is in T2-early T3.  Almost every player who's made it to T7 on a PvP server will testify that T7 PvP is boring and or broken (unless they're a Rogue/Predator, then they just make PvP videos of their mad skillz at pressing Inspiration + En Garde with Reach spec).  The gossip and buzz is that late T3-T6 is a wasteland -- money is hard to come by, crafters in those Tiers are equally difficult to find, and for many classes, (cough INT cough), you're actually becoming LESS effective in PvP as you level and your targets begin to accumulate disgusting resist gear without even trying.

[Bozidar]

<p>Two things to respond to in your post, tramp</p><p>1) Sony or anyone else shouldn't force people to play the game a certain way if they don't want to.  They pay their money to play it that way.  Does it suck for the newbies?  Sure.  Is it a steep learning curve?  Sure as heck is, I would know.  Is every level from 10-70 full of pvp ready to go and allow people of various styles to fight against each other whenever they so please?  Yes... </p><p>2) The T2/T3 fabled stuff sells for more because it's harder to farm.  T4/T5/T6/T7 stuff can be farmed in instances w/o pvp, and you can just grind the stuff out.  There's no competition for instanced mobs who drop fabled.  So with the amount of people in game.. the non-contested loot at mid levels is much cheaper than the highly contested loot at lower levels.</p>

[w1]

If level locking didn't exist the t3 and probably the t4 PVP faction rewards would be pointless as well.  I have almost 600 PVP kills as a 26 level locker and still don't quit have enough faction for the t3 PVP jewelry.  Without level locking you will never get enough faction for those items before you've already surpassed the level required to use them.  STOP [Removed for Content] WHINING ABOUT LEVEL LOCKERS.  IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT PLAY OR GO "BUY" A LEVEL 70 SO YOU DONT HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT!

[Ridyen]

<p>From my perspective it's not level locking that's really the issue - it's twinking that gives established players the advantage.  Everyone can "level lock" but not everyone can twink.  </p><p>My lvl 33 Dirge has fair gear, 46 AAs, and all master spells but they have been earned by playing the game.  By playing the game I mean turning off all combat XP, questing like crazy to get AA and harvesting to get rares so I can afford master spells.  I have to admit that I have recently killed myself to get experience debt to prevent leveling but this is not generally something I have done.  I was pulling ahead of my guildys from too much questing and wanted to slow down a bit.  </p><p>By taking my time and enjoying the game I have a character that is fun to play and that can hold his own in most 1v1 PVP fights.  I don't know my exact stats at the moment but have about 510 kills to about 80 deaths.  Even at this it is still frustrating to not have enough faction to purchase PVP gear.  I have to agree with other folks here that I don't see how it is possible to get lvl 30 PVP gear at lvl 30 without level locking. </p><p>All of that being said I would have no objections if some means of preventing players from accumulating so much XP debt or limiting the number of AA that could be acquired at lower levels was implemented.  Another alternative would be that all XP earned outside of PVE combat is not applied to reducing XP debt but rather goes directly to Adventure XP.  </p><p>As far as what I see as the real problem (twinking) I'm not sure what if anything can be done about it without really upsetting a large number of Sony's customers.  Something radical like the only gear you could wear is what you quest or what is made by a tradeskiller would work.  Or perhaps some limit on the number of purchased rather than earned pieces you could wear.  </p>

[ladyvengeance]

edit

[ladyvengeance]

<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Notice they say they would quit...because it takes away thier advantage they have over noobs, when they spend 20 plat on a level 11 character.. Point made... Its about the advantage.. If it was about gear/spells then worry about those in T7..</blockquote><p> Wrong. I could care less about killing noobs. Give me a fair fight any day of the week. It's much more fun and rewarding if I win. I'll gladly spend 20 plat (and more) on a character if it means I can have a good fight when a level 10 destroyer comes along (yes, they do exist). Being twinked also helps against gank groups. It's so much fun when a group of 4 come and try to gank me and I wipe the floor with them. </p><p>Again, I don't really care about killing noobs. How the hell am I supposed to know that they're noobs, anyway? Just because they don't have a title? That doesn't mean anything. </p>

[convict]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Notice they say they would quit...because it takes away thier advantage they have over noobs, when they spend 20 plat on a level 11 character.. Point made... Its about the advantage.. If it was about gear/spells then worry about those in T7..</blockquote><p> Wrong. I could care less about killing noobs. Give me a fair fight any day of the week. It's much more fun and rewarding if I win. I'll gladly spend 20 plat (and more) on a character if it means I can have a good fight when a level 10 destroyer comes along (yes, they do exist). Being twinked also helps against gank groups. It's so much fun when a group of 4 come and try to gank me and I wipe the floor with them. </p><p>Again, I don't really care about killing noobs. <b><span style="color: #ff0000">How the hell am I supposed to know that they're noobs</span></b>, anyway? Just because they don't have a title? That doesn't mean anything. </p></blockquote><p>Because thier in the noob area trying to quest, maybe? LOL.. I know, you dont hang out in the noob area's do ya? Your all twinkied out to defend yourself against 4 man groups and your wiping the floor with them because they come into YOUR noob area looking to gank, but your there to stop them. If your wiping the floor with 4 vs 1 on that <u><b>Warden</b></u>, I dont care how tweaked you are, theres something wrong with that picture..</p><p>If you dont care about killing noobs, where do you do all your killing at? At level 11..</p>

[Abstract]

<p><b><i><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman">I would just level up to 70 and get ganked by all the lvl 70 twinks<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></i></b></p><p><b><i><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman">i will not go back to that stupid lag filled turn based combat crap of a pos game VsoH. and WoW is almost as bad as VsoH. imo anyways EQ2 combat system is way better then anything i played(which isnt much), and im staying till they disconnect the servers.<img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></i></b></p>

[ladyvengeance]

<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Notice they say they would quit...because it takes away thier advantage they have over noobs, when they spend 20 plat on a level 11 character.. Point made... Its about the advantage.. If it was about gear/spells then worry about those in T7..</blockquote><p> Wrong. I could care less about killing noobs. Give me a fair fight any day of the week. It's much more fun and rewarding if I win. I'll gladly spend 20 plat (and more) on a character if it means I can have a good fight when a level 10 destroyer comes along (yes, they do exist). Being twinked also helps against gank groups. It's so much fun when a group of 4 come and try to gank me and I wipe the floor with them. </p><p>Again, I don't really care about killing noobs. <b><span style="color: #ff0000">How the hell am I supposed to know that they're noobs</span></b>, anyway? Just because they don't have a title? That doesn't mean anything. </p></blockquote><p>Because thier in the noob area trying to quest, maybe? LOL.. I know, you dont hang out in the noob area's do ya? Your all twinkied out to defend yourself against 4 man groups and your wiping the floor with them because they come into YOUR noob area looking to gank, but your there to stop them. If your wiping the floor with 4 vs 1 on that <u><b>Warden</b></u>, I dont care how tweaked you are, theres something wrong with that picture..</p><p>If you dont care about killing noobs, where do you do all your killing at? At level 11..</p></blockquote><p>At level 11 I can't take on 4 people - there's no way. My 11 usually groups with people in CL and Ant or in the Caves -- where I try to defend freeps killing noobs. However, my lvl 20 monk and wizzie can usually take on 3 or 4 people no problem.</p><p>And what if I do kill noobs? Who cares? We were all noobs at one point and we all got ganked at some point. Get over it. </p>

[Lord Entropy]

Ya i remember the gankfest when the level gap was 8 in the commenlands and ant, then i got smart and LOCKED at lv9 to harvest rares and craft.   Saved up cash then after a few months was able to get fabled and masters for my locked characters.  With all the time and energy it took to collect all my lv10 and 20 fabled items (which is much easier at lv70 btw) i would most likely QUIT this game if they removed level locking.

[Saintedone]

<p>I think level locking has merit but for PVE servers for sure and in PVP as well But the argument is that the 100AA'd fabled level lockers ganking entire groups is rediculous and is not what level locking was intended for.</p><p>Now kill all forms of XP with level lock including faction and keep it as it was intended <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I will stay </p>

[keiro]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote> imo they can "fix" level locking without outright removing it.  I've said this before:  Hard stat caps and an AA cap by level would defang most of the idiocy that happens in T2.  That early in the game, <span style="color: #6699ff">a twinked character should be no more than 50% more powerful than a non-twinked character.</span> While I can't speak for the devs, I would imagine that the current state of the PvP game isn't what they intended.  <span style="color: #6600ff">I believe the intent was to be like World of Warcraft</span>, insofar that a PvP server is about playing through the game content along with the potential to attack and be attacked by the opposing faction.  It's expected the vast majority of players want to move through the content at their own pace and reach the level cap. That's not how PvP turned out.  T7 is so broken, or pwning hapless Darklight/Gfay/Isle targets so appealing, that everyone and their mother locks in T2 or early T3.  The economy shifts to compensate, and suddenly it's more profitable to stay locked in T2 farming T2 nodes and T2 nameds than it is to advance.  A crappy Level 14 Fabled that would be used for a few hours in PvE sells for more than a T5 Fabled that might be used for days of play or more.  Mastercrafted gear is through the roof expensive for being considered the "bare minimum" for PvP viability.  Blackened Iron clusters go for anywhere from 80g to 1p depending on how lucky the roving bots were that day.  <span style="color: #6699ff">Yeah, bots farming T2 zones</span>. Ultimately, why would any informed player want to level up on a PvP server?  All the action is in T2-early T3.  Almost every player who's made it to T7 on a PvP server will testify that T7 PvP is boring and or broken (unless they're a Rogue/Predator, <span style="color: #6699ff">then they just make PvP videos of their mad skillz at pressing Inspiration + En Garde with Reach spec</span>).  The gossip and buzz is that late T3-T6 is a wasteland -- money is hard to come by, crafters in those Tiers are equally difficult to find, and for many classes, (cough INT cough), you're actually becoming LESS effective in PvP as you level and your targets begin to accumulate disgusting resist gear without even trying. </blockquote> okay first off learn the game before you make a reply "fixing" it what your asking for with a ability cap is for gank squads geared or ungeared doesn't matter to be invincible in all lower tiers If the intent of EQ2 pvp was to be WoW then SOE should seriously just shut down the company now,  if you wanna play WoW by all means go Bots groups don't lock btw,  and harvesting/crafting bots there's tons more on pve servers than on pvp Last quote after 500k times gets old,  there's a way to kill every class by every class,  learn it and adjust,  it's called good old fashioned tactics.  people cry over every little time they get killed,  so what if it's by the same "unbalanced class"   Ever thought people are just better than you? It's quite possible imo

[Amphibia]

I would stay, but I dont think it is a good idea to remove level locking, nor change it so much that it becomes undesirable. Here's why: 1. Low level PvP is very much alive and kicking. It's a lot of fun to be had for both new and old players. Yes, ganking is a part of it... I started late on Nagafen myself, and got ganked lots. But I also won some fights, even as a complete noob. It was simply a lot of fun, and I dont think it would have been half as interesting if there hadn't been tons of people to play with and against at those low levels. 2. Low level PvP suits the casual player. Getting to 70 takes a lot of time and effort, but you can get to 14 in a day or two without even having to rush there. Got a friend you'd like to PvP with who plays less or just started on the server a bit later than you? Not a problem, just lock your XP so that he can catch up. 3. The system with PvP faction is very harsh. I dare say it is impossible to get enough faction for the early rewards without XP locking. You need 25k faction just for a level 25 ring - that's a lot of kills. To me it seems as high level horses etc is what ticks people off the most. Maybe put in a level restriction on those, and leave everything else as it is. Bottom line: To many people, low level PvP is quick and easy fun. Personally I fail to see whats so terrible with that in a computer game. I know from personal experience that it's not really a problem to level up past the gank levels if that's what you want to do. To be honest, I think all the action going on at lower levels is a great thing for this game, and it gives new players a chance to get into the fun right away.

[tass]

I really dont care but I miss the 8 lv [Removed for Content] kickings in ant and the cl's. In fact you could even have a bigger gankfest on twinkies if that baby came back. Of course noobs would be slughtered but at least id have a bigger variety of people to kill.

[Killque]

I would continue to play.

[zorros]

<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>I really dont care but I miss the 8 lv [I cannot control my vocabulary] kickings in ant and the cl's. In fact you could even have a bigger gankfest on twinkies if that baby came back. Of course noobs would be slughtered but at least id have a bigger variety of people to kill. </blockquote><p> Yep they was good times.</p><p>Extened the no pvp to lvl 20 if they have too.Noobs will have no excuse to whine as anyone and i do mean anyone can be a twink BEFORE they hit lvl 20 unless they have serious mental issues.</p>

[Novusod]

With the 8lvl rule gank squads I ran into while leveling up as a newb were horid. Though now that I am established with a powerfull fully fabled out T4 twink and 61aa I think it would be fun to go back now.

[Echgar]

<cite>Squishy wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here is the question:  If level locking was removed from PVP in the next patch, would you continue to play EQ2?</p></blockquote>I understand the topic of level locking is something that is quite important to many in the community.  I have had to moderate several of these threads now and it is clear several of you are quite passionate. Polls to ask who will quit if a change is or is not made, however, is one of the reasons the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=176" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">forum rules</a> prohibits these types of things.  It is something that just isn't very constructive and just tends to cause trouble on the forums. In addition, <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=364269" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">there is already a thread</a> discussing level locking.  If you have constructive feedback to give, please visit <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=364269" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">that thread</a>.