Help me out here

[Rudwick]

I am a true EQ2 newb as I have just started playing this weekend. I like to pvp as well as the next guy but I at least like to stand a chance. I'm playing a lvl 13 defiler and my spells are no better than app2 atm. I can barely kill a even con mob let alone some twink. I guess what I am asking is the constant ganking gonna get any better as I try and level or is this gonna be the norm with not a chance in hell of killing anyone. I wanna tough it out and earn my skills and gear but a newb can only take so much. So I guess what I am asking is are there any new players starting out on this pvp server and how they go about progessing?

[Image_Vain]

Until your lvl 70 and have full raid gear, ganking will never stop, PvP on EQ2 is [Removed for Content], and needs allot of help, best advice I can give you is, roll with groups.

[jimmythenun]

See level locking thread for details.... Level past the 20's and its gets better.   You stand no chance versus lvl locked 16 scouts with 35 aa's and all master1 spells.   No chance at all.    It's why it's tough to draw in new players. Find a nice instance and lvl up past these guys.    Then take out your frustrations on bot groups.

[Bozidar]

<cite>Rudwick wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am a true EQ2 newb as I have just started playing this weekend. I like to pvp as well as the next guy but I at least like to stand a chance. I'm playing a lvl 13 defiler and my spells are no better than app2 atm. I can barely kill a even con mob let alone some twink. I guess what I am asking is the constant ganking gonna get any better as I try and level or is this gonna be the norm with not a chance in hell of killing anyone. I wanna tough it out and earn my skills and gear but a newb can only take so much. So I guess what I am asking is are there any new players starting out on this pvp server and how they go about progessing?</blockquote><p>1) The ganking gets no better.  Either you get better, or you don't.</p><p>2) You play a defiler, a great great group toon.  get some friends around your level, get into a guild, and group and quest with them. </p><p>3) I'd actually agree with leveling out of the teens for now, and avoid darklight wood unless you have a full group.  it's too hot for pvp right now, you'll get rolled too easy (probably even in a group).</p><p>4) When you get to 18, or 19, ask a brigand or someone else to escort you into the wizard tower near the nek griff in cl.  zone into the instance there <i>with empty bags</i> and harvest till your eyes bleed.  Get all the nodes you can, you want to have:</p><p>9 steel clusters (helm, chest, shoulders, forearms, hands, pants, boots, symbol, weapon)</p><p>2 fir (shield and wand (you can substitute the wand for the steel weapon.. but imo a wand should only be swapped in when you're chasing someone))</p><p>1 cuiribolli pelt (belt)</p><p>3 dandelion fibers (2 dolls and a neck piece)</p><p>as many jasper as you can get your hands on.  you need 2 earings, 2 rings, and 2 bangles, and Jasper is also your spell rare to make adept III's.</p><p>When you empty the zone of nodes, zone back out at the top of the tower, then zone back in. and nodes are refreshed!  No pvp here, harvesting is free.. get what you need.  sell the spares and make some money.</p><p>5) This is all starting to sound boring, right?  Well.. building a good toon takes time and some good amount of boredom.  If you don't want to put the effort in.. then you are going to get rolled.</p><p> 6)Ok, so you have all your rares (assuming), you need crafters.  You either need some good friends who like to craft, guildies who will do it for free, or some good advice is to get reliable folks and use them over and over:</p><p>Jeweler, Sage, Armorer, Tailor, Woodworker, and Weaponsmith.</p><p>make one of these yourself.. i'd suggest sage. </p><p>7) Put on your new Mastercrafted Armor when you ding 22, get your group together, and go out and do some HQs, grind some more quests and get to 25 or so.  you'll need a few AA by now, imo. </p><p> Once you hit 25.. you should know your class [Removed for Content] well, be working in your group well, and be really picking up on how this game works both in terms of twinking out a toon to be tough, and fighting vs other players.</p><p>It'll take a long time before you're great at it.. but you have to decide if your'e going to go down that road or not..</p>

[deepruntramp]

Either wait for a patch or play a Predator/Rogue/Druid. All the boring harvesting/crafting in the world won't save you from overpowered classes.

[Bozidar]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Either wait for a patch or play a Predator/Rogue/Druid. All the boring harvesting/crafting in the world won't save you from overpowered classes. </blockquote> learning how to group properly, and fight well in a group.. will

[deepruntramp]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Either wait for a patch or play a Predator/Rogue/Druid. All the boring harvesting/crafting in the world won't save you from overpowered classes. </blockquote> learning how to group properly, and fight well in a group.. will</blockquote> PvP is not intended to be group-based.  Preds/Rogues wouldn't be so powerful if it were.

[Darkothe]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Either wait for a patch or play a Predator/Rogue/Druid. All the boring harvesting/crafting in the world won't save you from overpowered classes. </blockquote> learning how to group properly, and fight well in a group.. will</blockquote> /Agree.  It's called MMORPG for a reason Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Game.  The game is designed to be a social interaction with other people - much as the pencil and dice grandfather D&D was.  These games are designed to be played with people - although there are vast opportunities to solo as well.  Having been in the game now for two weeks, I'm going to have to say that PvP works much better when you're in a group...no matter how well you think you're prepared, that lvl 14 twink stealthed behind that tree is *still* going to pwn you if you're alone.  Use your social skills and meet some people...it's far less painful than getting your [Removed for Content] handed to you over and over as a solo player.

[Bozidar]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote> PvP is not intended to be group-based.  Preds/Rogues wouldn't be so powerful if it were.</blockquote><p> You contradict yourself.  Predators, Rogues and druids are very very powerful solo toons (as can others be).</p><p>In a group.. all classes find balance for pvp.</p><p>Please explain to me why you come to the conclusion that PvP is not intended to be group (or even raid) based.  Last time i checked i can /invite and still go out and kill.</p><p>This isn't counterstrike.. isn't not going to be.. and i don't believe your signature.</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

I find it difficult to believe that you are not a "sock puppet", created by someone on the "twinks suck" side of the level-locking argument. As soon as someone points to your post as "evidence" that level locking is turning away new players, we'll probably have a better idea of whose hand in inside the puppet. But, on the off chance you are sincere, I agree with the "get a group" advice.   Ignore any people calling out for members to a group that have a title or twink requirement, because they are taking themselves way too seriously.    Know your role, (in pvp) know how to follow the scout, don't be afraid to ask questions/make suggestions/have fun, and you'll always be welcomed to a group of <Sanctuary>.

[Harbringer Doom]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote> PvP is not intended to be group-based.  Preds/Rogues wouldn't be so powerful if it were.</blockquote><p> You contradict yourself.  Predators, Rogues and druids are very very powerful solo toons (as can others be).</p><p>In a group.. all classes find balance for pvp.</p><p>Please explain to me why you come to the conclusion that PvP is not intended to be group (or even raid) based.  Last time i checked i can /invite and still go out and kill.</p><p>This isn't counterstrike.. isn't not going to be.. and i don't believe your signature.</p></blockquote> Yeah, I was going to respond to that nonsense too... then I read the signature and figured he was 1) someone who loved to complain and 2) trolling with that comment. Back away slowly.

[Bozidar]

Tesar@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Yeah, I was going to respond to that nonsense too... then I read the signature and figured he was 1) someone who loved to complain and 2) trolling with that comment. Back away slowly. </blockquote><p> What boggles my mind is that in in-game chat yesterday i said that all classes find balance in pvp, and everyone in their mother flamed me nine ways till tuesday.  one even said i was one of those anti-locker people.. which didn't make any sense to me.</p><p>why people find it so difficult to accept that this is a group game and that solo pvp should mean next to nothing to devs, is beyond me.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Either wait for a patch or play a Predator/Rogue/Druid. All the boring harvesting/crafting in the world won't save you from overpowered classes. </blockquote><p> Oh yea so me getting Slayer on a Coercer at lvl 11 SOLO was just an illusion. Me getting Champ at 15 must have been wrong cos coercer's are the least powered class in T2. And yea i can't take down orange druids, well, those are a bit harder <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>If you know HOW to play the class and are GOOD with it, you can achieve SO much. The way you moan about EQ2 i dont know why you play it.</p><p>Every single class has its place in a group, and in a grp Preds/rogues/Druids arent overpowered, therefore its logical to assume that, if all classes are balanced in grouped, EQ2 pvp is based around group play.</p><p>Yes these 3 arch-types are good solo, but thats not the be-all and end-all. Any decent mage in t2 can kill a scout, same with a priest or even a fighter. Hell i cant think of a class that, if played by a pro, can kill any of these classes, xcept druids, they are teh [Removed for Content]. So scouts arent really that great when they do actually engage.</p><p>The way you moan you really need to L2P.</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>Some of the defiler forums will help you out. </p><p>You are playing a hard class to learn. </p><p>You will have a hard time winning a 1 v 1 fight in the lower tiers. ALot of classes can hit thru your wards </p><p>before you can do much about it. And you have long recast timers in comparison to other healing classes. </p><p>THis means you will get interupted alot, many deaths for you will be watching your heal recast 3 times as it tries to finish without being interupted then you will die. </p><p>Your class strenghts start to show in groups, you are bar none the best single target healer. And in the upper tiers with some AA points and full spell list , you can reduce a opponent to a weakling who is attacking at a snail pace. </p><p>With some damage shield jewelery many opponents who beat you down in lower tiers will avoid you at all costs as most will kill themselvs attacking you. </p><p>As a bonus in the raiding tiers of the game you are a God. Every guild will send you tells asking if you want to join them . You would be invited to every raid , and will never be asked to sit out. That is how powerfull your class is. Your Hitpoint buffs , wards, and mob debuffs are awsome.</p><p>If you can find a friend to play with as a duo you wil be better off. The lower tiers are not for you. Unless you are melee spec'd and convert your spell attacks into ca's. It a rough haul for you. Your path to victory lies in letting your dot's kill an opponent while you stay alive.. and in the low tiers vs scout classes .. you dont stand much of a chance. </p><p>If you have patience and want to look forward to being loved in the later game ..stick with it. </p><p>If you want to have some instant gratification in the lower tiers as a healer try a fury. </p><p>Wardens will start to shine in the higher 20's and peak out in the 50's but remain strong all the way to 70.</p><p>I would just try to level out of the teens asap. .. it has become a meeting ground for egomaniacs and gankers .. who prey on new players.. leave them behind and dont look back. Several quests can be done in relative safety. </p><p>Some guilds who want to raid will invite defilers to the guild at low levels and offer to power level them up. </p><p>You will miss alot of the middle game .. which is fun if it is your first time in the game ... </p><p>I would conider tinkering as a tradeskill , the root and snare and mez items will help. As several times when you start to win fights , you have few tools to stop an opponent from just turning and runing away. </p><p>High level PvP spec'd defilers can be beasts.. i know one who smacks down our master and overseer assasins and brigands all the time ... dont give up ! </p><p>Defiler forums are your friend ... good luck.. i leveled a defiler to 70 ... was the hardest class i ever had.. and the most rewarding at lvl 70 .  </p>

[Xaltuton]

A perspective from a new player. My rant.... I just recently made the switch from WOW to EQ2. I played UO back in the orignal version and heard EQ2 is the closet thing to UO PVP these days. So I made the switch knowing how bad and brutal the ganking can be. So I joined Nagafen, where the population is. Coming off newbie island and hitting T1/T2 is a real headache. To be honest I almost quit one weekend because the ganking was so overwhelming. Just in CL trying to kill some beetles next to the FP gate I would get rolled by a group of twinks every minute or so. It's laughable... It took me 15 mins to kill 6 mobs. I offer virtually nothing towards their titles yet they continuely camp me over and over. And then emote laugh ect. while they instagib me. People wonder why no new players are coming into their game. Well there's a good example for you. Getting ganked by 5 players at once with gear that allows them to one shot me into oblivion over and over, it gets old really quick. I'm going to keep my head up and get through this broken PVP tier and see what the upper level PVP offers. I know gear plays alot into your ability to survive PVP but to allow 20plat twinks to kill brand new players that are 2 hours into the game like this isn't a wise choice for a game needing my subscription. I see the rebuttal is, "get your own gear and get even with these twinks". Hardly an option for a new player that doesn't have alts or a year spent ingame to build that kind of disposable plat. It's all I can do to level and harvest trying to make that money while I'm killed by the minute. Some might say why join a PVP server, go to a carebear PVE. No, I join for PVP AND PVE content. My hope is the higher tier PVP will be less gear oriented and more skill based. Yes T70 PVP gear and raid gear can make a difference but all least it's avalible to everyone at that level regardless of your bank account. With end game PVP the difference in gear wont be as extreme as it is now vs BRAND NEW PLAYERS. There needs to be some kind of immunity flag option a brand new player can toggle till lvl 20 so we can at least get a foothold on the PVP servers.

[Bozidar]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Some of the defiler forums will help you out. </p></blockquote><p>Its very rare for this to happen, but i almost completely agree with you.</p><p>If you want to pvp a defiler through the lower levels it's VERY doable in the right group.  At the least you want to have a brigand and a druid.  A great pvp trio, tbh, at many levels.  In a full group of six you're going to make the whole group so much stronger... it'll be fantastic.  My buddy Ang has a champ defiler.  She generally loses when she's out solo or duo'd with an assassin.. but when we roll out our six man groups..  I honestly can't remember the last time our whole group got beat.  Defilers, as with all classes, kick [Removed for Content] at all levels if you play them right <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Bozidar]

Healboticus@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>A perspective from a new player. My rant.... I just recently made the switch from WOW to EQ2. I played UO back in the orignal version and heard EQ2 is the closet thing to UO PVP these days. So I made the switch knowing how bad and brutal the ganking can be. So I joined Nagafen, where the population is. Coming off newbie island and hitting T1/T2 is a real headache. To be honest I almost quit one weekend because the ganking was so overwhelming. Just in CL trying to kill some beetles next to the FP gate I would get rolled by a group of twinks every minute or so. It's laughable... It took me 15 mins to kill 6 mobs. I offer virtually nothing towards their titles yet they continuely camp me over and over. And then emote laugh ect. while they instagib me. People wonder why no new players are coming into their game. Well there's a good example for you. Getting ganked by 5 players at once with gear that allows them to one shot me into oblivion over and over, it gets old really quick. I'm going to keep my head up and get through this broken PVP tier and see what the upper level PVP offers. I know gear plays alot into your ability to survive PVP but to allow 20plat twinks to kill brand new players that are 2 hours into the game like this isn't a wise choice for a game needing my subscription. I see the rebuttal is, "get your own gear and get even with these twinks". Hardly an option for a new player that doesn't have alts or a year spent ingame to build that kind of disposable plat. It's all I can do to level and harvest trying to make that money while I'm killed by the minute. Some might say why join a PVP server, go to a carebear PVE. No, I join for PVP AND PVE content. My hope is the higher tier PVP will be less gear oriented and more skill based. Yes T70 PVP gear and raid gear can make a difference but all least it's avalible to everyone at that level regardless of your bank account. With end game PVP the difference in gear wont be as extreme as it is now vs BRAND NEW PLAYERS. There needs to be some kind of immunity flag option a brand new player can toggle till lvl 20 so we can at least get a foothold on the PVP servers. </blockquote><p> Allow me to help.</p><p>If you see a group of mid teens ganking you and camping you by wfp, you need to /shout for help, and ask in the lvl 10-19 channel.  Folks might not come like greased lightning, but they'll come.  T2 pvp isn't broken, it's the exact same in all tiers.  You level up, people higher level than you will kick your teeth in if you're not twinked out like they are.</p><p>What you need in game is a good guild who can help you out, group with you, teach you some of the game and increase your progress along that learning curve.</p><p>TBH, i learned EQ2, my first MMO, on a pvp server.. and it wasn't easy.  But if i'd learned on a PvE server and applied it to pvp when i got there.. i probably would have fared better and enjoyed it more, but i respect that you don't want to do that.</p><p>Send me a tell in game, Raike, Hobarth, Ximinez.  I'll help ya out a little bit with some advice on how to get yourself a foothold financially.  We're not a newby guild, and recruiting is closed, but i can point you in the right direction of some good guilds to join.</p><p>Give up on your hope about higher end about skill based.. it's not.  All MMO's are gear/spell-level based..  either you twink out, or you're going to be weak.  That's PvP.. </p><p>edit: i agree with you on lvl 20.. fyi</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>oh yeah, i forgot:</p><p>There are no rules in pvp to prevent a player from killing another guy over and over again if that player goes back out there.  It's an etiquette thing.  I don't grief exept under special circumstances.</p><p>If you aren't dropping any chest when you die.. you either have nothing on you, or you've been killed by someone who got no credit for you.</p><p>Remember these people.  Remember their guilds.  Folks who do that need to be taught a lesson, and fall under the "special circumstances" group <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Darkothe]

Healboticus@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>A perspective from a new player. My rant.... I just recently made the switch from WOW to EQ2. I played UO back in the orignal version and heard EQ2 is the closet thing to UO PVP these days. So I made the switch knowing how bad and brutal the ganking can be. So I joined Nagafen, where the population is. Coming off newbie island and hitting T1/T2 is a real headache. To be honest I almost quit one weekend because the ganking was so overwhelming. Just in CL trying to kill some beetles next to the FP gate I would get rolled by a group of twinks every minute or so. It's laughable... It took me 15 mins to kill 6 mobs. I offer virtually nothing towards their titles yet they continuely camp me over and over. And then emote laugh ect. while they instagib me. People wonder why no new players are coming into their game. Well there's a good example for you. Getting ganked by 5 players at once with gear that allows them to one shot me into oblivion over and over, it gets old really quick. I'm going to keep my head up and get through this broken PVP tier and see what the upper level PVP offers. I know gear plays alot into your ability to survive PVP but to allow 20plat twinks to kill brand new players that are 2 hours into the game like this isn't a wise choice for a game needing my subscription. I see the rebuttal is, "get your own gear and get even with these twinks". Hardly an option for a new player that doesn't have alts or a year spent ingame to build that kind of disposable plat. It's all I can do to level and harvest trying to make that money while I'm killed by the minute. Some might say why join a PVP server, go to a carebear PVE. No, I join for PVP AND PVE content. My hope is the higher tier PVP will be less gear oriented and more skill based. Yes T70 PVP gear and raid gear can make a difference but all least it's avalible to everyone at that level regardless of your bank account. With end game PVP the difference in gear wont be as extreme as it is now vs BRAND NEW PLAYERS. There needs to be some kind of immunity flag option a brand new player can toggle till lvl 20 so we can at least get a foothold on the PVP servers. </blockquote> Yar!  Keep your head up.  I've only been in EQII for two weeks now, and have been brutalized by the twinks.  I, as you have said you are doing, am keeping my head up and plowing forward.  I recently was accepted into a great guild, and have found that the pvp life is *much* healthier in groups...not quite the adreneline rush as solo pvp, but much safer.  If you're needing any armor made, I'm a 19 outfitter, and would be more than happy to help you out with any armor that you may need.  Trust me, it does get better...it's all about making friends, rolling with groups and knowing when to run - heh.

[Bozidar]

Stabberz@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Yar!  Keep your head up.  I've only been in EQII for two weeks now, and have been brutalized by the twinks.  I, as you have said you are doing, am keeping my head up and plowing forward.  I recently was accepted into a great guild, and have found that the pvp life is *much* healthier in groups...not quite the adreneline rush as solo pvp, but much safer.  If you're needing any armor made, I'm a 19 outfitter, and would be more than happy to help you out with any armor that you may need.  Trust me, it does get better...it's all about making friends, rolling with groups and knowing when to run - heh.</blockquote><p>you'd have to be on the same side of the fence to make armor for him, fyi.  but nice of you to offer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  i don't know what side EITHER of yas are on, tbh <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>and yes.. it's about making friends, and rolling in good groups.. well said, and you learned that pretty quickly.  well done</p>

[deepruntramp]

PvP is not balanced.  Not for groups or solos. -If PvP is group-based, Scouts need to be nerfed hard, because they're far too useful both in groups and solo.  In the enormous EQ2 zones, Track is king, and to have the highest PvP DPS class given Track, as well as group stealth/group movespeed/other group buffs is unbalanced and unfair in PvP.  Frankly Track just needs to be taken out of PvP altogether.  It doesn't foster fair fights, indeed it trivializes the entire "find a target" part of PvP.  Anytime Stealth from level 1 is more than enough for Scouts to be able to pick and choose their fights like PvP design demands Scout-types should be able to.  Adding Track to that is just absurd and overpowered.  Honestly, you'd have to be dumb not to choose a class that can literally GENERATE A GLOWING TRAIL TO A TARGET THEY CAN SELECT BY NAME FROM OUT OF DRAW DISTANCE, not to mention keep tabs on all players, friendly and hostile, who enter their vicinity.  It's radar combined with precision targetting, and is way, WAY overpowered in PvP. -If PvP is solo-based, every class needs to be able to perform on a Predator/Rogue/Druid level.  And I mean each class needs to be just as "easymode" as those three archetypes currently are.  A good first step is giving everyone some kind of track or some way to become untrackable.  Perhaps a T2-usable Tinkering charm called "Gnomish Radar" which grants tracking exactly like Scout track.  Perhaps a T2-usable Totem that grants immunity to tracking.  Or hell, pretty much every class has some way to see  Invisible, so why not grant the same distribution of classes the ability to make themselves or their entire party untrackable?  Spells need to be capped at, say, a 33% chance to outright resist, any more is unfair considering how reliable CAs are.  You could accomplish this by taking the player's resists and simply halving them for PvP calculations.  Maybe offensive casters would be more appealing in that case.

[HerbertWalker]

<p>We don't wonder why there are few new players, we know exactly why.</p><p>It is a difficult game.   We (the content) are tough competitors.</p><p>If I was brand new today, I would be thrilled to learn that one day I could become that powerful.  The game would not entice me to play for very long if any schmuck could join in and immediately be powerful enough to gank 50 people a day.</p><p>Please don't campaign to make the game easier.  There are a ton of easy games.  I like mine on extreme difficulty settings.  Ths is why I often attack folks 10-12 levels higher than myself.</p>

[Darkothe]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>PvP is not balanced.  Not for groups or solos. -If PvP is group-based, Scouts need to be nerfed hard, because they're far too useful both in groups and solo.  In the enormous EQ2 zones, Track is king, and to have the highest PvP DPS class given Track, as well as group stealth/group movespeed/other group buffs is unbalanced and unfair in PvP.  Frankly Track just needs to be taken out of PvP altogether.  It doesn't foster fair fights, indeed it trivializes the entire "find a target" part of PvP.  Anytime Stealth from level 1 is more than enough for Scouts to be able to pick and choose their fights like PvP design demands Scout-types should be able to.  Adding Track to that is just absurd and overpowered.  Honestly, you'd have to be dumb not to choose a class that can literally GENERATE A GLOWING TRAIL TO A TARGET THEY CAN SELECT BY NAME FROM OUT OF DRAW DISTANCE, not to mention keep tabs on all players, friendly and hostile, who enter their vicinity.  It's radar combined with precision targetting, and is way, WAY overpowered in PvP. -If PvP is solo-based, every class needs to be able to perform on a Predator/Rogue/Druid level.  And I mean each class needs to be just as "easymode" as those three archetypes currently are.  A good first step is giving everyone some kind of track or some way to become untrackable.  Perhaps a T2-usable Tinkering charm called "Gnomish Radar" which grants tracking exactly like Scout track.  Perhaps a T2-usable Totem that grants immunity to tracking.  Or hell, pretty much every class has some way to see  Invisible, so why not grant the same distribution of classes the ability to make themselves or their entire party untrackable?  Spells need to be capped at, say, a 33% chance to outright resist, any more is unfair considering how reliable CAs are.  You could accomplish this by taking the player's resists and simply halving them for PvP calculations.  Maybe offensive casters would be more appealing in that case. </blockquote><p>If you're so certain that scouts are easy mode, roll one and try it yourself.  Just because you can track someone doesn't mean that tracking is going to register them in time for them not to roll past you and discover where you're stealthed - just before the traditional Q gank begins.  I use my tracking to *avoid* pvp when I'm out questing or farming just as I use it to assist my group in tracking prey when I'm pvping.  Tell you what sunshine...how's this sound...everyone gets track, and at the same time scouts and all melee get healing...oh...and a pet...wait...we want to summon food too...could you also manage to have them put root in that patch as well...and maybe a nuke or two - I mean come on...we don't want to unbalance anything.  I think alot of you non-scouts out there have a vision of how uber track is.  It's just *one* of many class defining abilities we have that make us unique - it is not an "I Win" button.  But, if you think I'm wrong...roll one and then let's talk.</p><p>Each class has its strengths and each class has it's weakness'.  Learn to play to those, or you're just going to be miserable in pvp.  They're not going to take track away from scouts - as it's a defining aspect of the class - and I'm not suddenly going to be able to heal myself with a spell, nuke someone with an icecomet, harm touch an opponent, summon a pet, take control of someone, turn into a wolf/lion/tree etc. etc.  You want "easy mode" generic blah, blah, blah PvP...go play WoW.</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>deepruntramp wrote: </p><blockquote>PvP is not balanced.  Not for groups or solos.</blockquote><p>Indeed, it is balanced.</p><p>deepruntramp wrote: </p><blockquote>-If PvP is group-based, Scouts need to be nerfed hard, because they're far too useful both in groups and solo.  In the enormous EQ2 zones, Track is king, and to have the highest PvP DPS class given Track, as well as group stealth/group movespeed/other group buffs is unbalanced and unfair in PvP.  Frankly Track just needs to be taken out of PvP altogether.  It doesn't foster fair fights, indeed it trivializes the entire "find a target" part of PvP.  Anytime Stealth from level 1 is more than enough for Scouts to be able to pick and choose their fights like PvP design demands Scout-types should be able to.  Adding Track to that is just absurd and overpowered.  Honestly, you'd have to be dumb not to choose a class that can literally GENERATE A GLOWING TRAIL TO A TARGET THEY CAN SELECT BY NAME FROM OUT OF DRAW DISTANCE, not to mention keep tabs on all players, friendly and hostile, who enter their vicinity.  It's radar combined with precision targetting, and is way, WAY overpowered in PvP.</blockquote><p>It's not, stop hurting yourself with this one.  It's not solo.  And explain to me how, if you actually know this game, a scout is more useful in a group than a tank, a healer, a chanter, or a sorcerer?</p><p>Track is useful, and IMO required for a group -- but you only need one.  Heals are useful, and IMO you need at <i>lease</i> one, unquestionably required in a group.  A tank who can taunt correctly is useful in a grup and imo required for a group.  Crowd control that chanters give you, useful in a group.  Dps, both group and solo target, that a sorcerer gives you -- useful in a group and with the right group makeup becomes even more powerful.</p><p>Track is nice.. and every group should have one scout.. why is that NOT balanced?  Are you saying that all groups should have six scouts?  That would be unbalanced, i think.. is that what you think?</p><p>And btw.. stealth from lower levels doesn't work, nor does invis, when you're much higher level than them.  There are plenty of items and classes that provide both stealth and invisibility btw.</p><p>This whole paragraph of yours has NOTHING TO DO WITH BALANCED GROUP PVP!!! You're just on a rant about track for whatever agenda you have.</p><p>Nerf nerfers like you.. plz.. you add nothing to the conversation.</p>