The truth about templar and their DPS? [Archive]

Tash 1

06-04-2007, 03:54 AM

So what is really the truth about templar and their DPS?Some state they if they just want put out 1200 dps or more Others claim they cant do any damage at all? The debate rally back and forth and in the end all seem to be bored to death by it. I guess that the difference between the dps have some to do with the AA setup and equipment but the difference seem too big to be just be material. My guess is that we measure apple and cookies here. How about some comparable numbers? So as soon as I get home I will make one of all those writruns for 20 basilisks(67) in Bonemire. I will not use potions, totems or hammerpet and speed through them as fas as possible.Solo naturally.And then I will post my parser average, int, str, haste and dps boost. Im very sure that it will be about 450-550 dps. It would be interesting to get same test from the once that state they do 1000+ dps and from those state they don't do dps at all.Could we try this?<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />/Tash

Kendricke

06-04-2007, 08:26 AM

I'll freely admit that I'm geared out a bit better than the average Templar. Even so, I maintain a Templar on Test who is not so geared out who is still putting out significant DPS (Adept I spells, 35 Achievements, all broker/quested gear).The point is that the class is what you make of it. If you think that the class isn't able to put out very high numers, then chances are you're right. If, however, you think the class can put out good numbers, chances are you're right. It's not contradictory, but rather what I see as a reflection of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Caethre

06-04-2007, 01:52 PM

OOC.These discussions do have a habit of using un-measureable terms like "good DPS" or "significant DPS", without defining how those adjectives are being used, as in, without giving a reference frame. DPS is only "good" or "significant" (or "bad" or "pathetic" for that matter) when it actually compared to some level of expectation. For Templars who are primarily raiders or fullgroupers, the expectation might be very low, since they have little need of DPS in their preferred playstyle, whilst at the opposite end of the scale, for soloers, DPS matters hugely, so the perspectives can be very different.But as a casual player who operates in solo and small group settings for the most part, my personal quest has never been for "good" DPS (since the term has no reference frame); rather it has always been for two other things:(a) Without class comparision, DPS that is sufficient to be able to complete content for casual players in an acceptably timely fashion. This includes the solo player Templar. Example question to any casual player Templar: "Do you find you can complete solo content in a timeframe that is reasonable?". It is very subjective, but feedback has, by its very nature, a highly subjective component to it.Personally, I do not see major problems in this area as a level 70 Templar with most of my AP skills acquired and some nice equipment from the broker. I can complete writs for example, without falling asleep in every fight, like I used to! However, I still see an issue for some lower level Templars in more average gear.(b) With priest class comparison, DPS roughly equivalent to other priest classes. We are competing with other priests, make no bones about it, and class balance matters! For this purpose, my target has always been, to have DPS for all six priest classes to be within 10% of eachother. This is something that SOE Developers have specifically stated in the past is their guideline aim, so it is not unreasonable as a target for us, as players, to expect. The example question here is "Do you find that a casual player Templar can get solo DPS that is within an acceptable difference range from an equivalently geared soloing Fury, against normal solo content?" This sort of thing, can, of course, be parsed.Personally, based on my own analysis, I still feel the gap here is larger than the stated aim for casual-equipped players. However, what I will say, is that things are FAR FAR better than once they were. You can spec out and equip a Templar for melee and DPS (as mine is), and feel you are doing reasonably well. The AP design for Templars has been done pretty well by SOE, and caters well for differing playstyles, as can be seen by the very differeing builds for APs that one sees between different Templars.Infact, at level 70 as things are now, I have no serious complaints anymore about the Templar class at all, other than Smite Wrath still being broken (as in, "Disable Smite Wrath" still firing when hitting HO or when casting my Hammer Pet), and I certainly no longer feel our class is the charity case amongst the priests for casual players (as it was a year ago). However, lower level Templars still have some issues.It is for this reason, that this community is quieter than it once was. Overall, that can only be a good thing.Felishanna.

Maryk

06-04-2007, 02:29 PM

A good example is last night I tried to do the one quest in Kaladim...Diamonds for Dunfire...or something like that. I figured...it's a green quest...I should have a fair shot at getting through it. Right?Forget it. Calls for you to go mine some diamonds or gems in a room full of green mobs...probably 20 or 30 mobs. Ridiculous. Templars are very lousy with multiple mobs...The point here is I could care less about DPS...I'm a healer...that's what I like doing. But it seems a certain portion of the game is not available to me...in a solo mode...because our offensive skills are lackluster. There's no way I can do this quest...even at level 70. Same as I said in the other thread...about quests in New Tunaria.I tried a "gray" quest line in the Living Tombs...just for the fun of it. Again...I can't complete the quest because I have to kill x number of scrabaflatzes in five minutes. Without serious offensive skills...I'm at a dead end even with these gray quests.Please...I'm not complaining that Templars don't have wizard-like nukes. But the game has been designed mostly around killing things as fast as you can...either before you get killed or because you're trying to beat some goofy timer. Templars are not good at that.

Banadux

06-04-2007, 02:47 PM

>>Forget it. Calls for you to go mine some diamonds or gems in a room full of green mobs...probably 20 or >>30 mobs. Ridiculous. Templars are very lousy with multiple mobs... Have you tried thorns/spikes adornment on your shoulders and shield. They stack so everytime you get hit mob will take 56 + 56 damage (those might not be the exact right numbers but close). Get signet of light from darkness out of obelisk for the damage + heal procs. I'm sure there is other gear that can help make us an armored porcupine.

Tash 1

06-04-2007, 02:56 PM

Many interesting thoughts but its just a lot of words again. I am just interested what Templar in a given situation put out in dps.So after my run today. Haste 42% DPS 20% Str 389 Int 340Result 487 DPS average.<img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />And the movie <a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=ChylLTTvj9A" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=ChylLTTvj9A</a>That's it! <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />/Tash

Maryk

06-04-2007, 06:03 PM

I couldn't see what you were fighting...couldn't see what level they were.But those numbers are fairly similar to the numbers I typically see. You were killing things pretty fast though. What I would like to see isa movie with you going up against 58 ^^^ librarian in New Tunaria.I just want to see how long it takes you. I generally had no problem buttook longer than I expected.(watch out for the ^^^ Mistmore Servants that come strolling throughevery now and then...they're still green. I almost swallowed my tongue the first time she came strolling through...I didn't expect it.)

Kendricke

06-04-2007, 09:10 PM

Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>This is something that SOE Developers have specifically stated in the past is their guideline aim, so it is not unreasonable as a target for us, as players, to expect. </blockquote> Link?After making a point that discussions such as this are full of nothing more than words with no comparison, you back it up with your "analysis" and present no actual findings...other than your own opinion. You feel that priests should be within 10% DPS of one another (something you assert developers - plural - have stated), and yet don't provide any actual DPS numbers for yourself. To clarify, I'm all for more meaningful discourse, and have no issues with presenting opinion as supporting statement. However, if you're going to claim that such discussions "have a habit of using un-measurable terms", it might be better to provide such measurements within your own post. After all, you claim to want sufficient DPS to complete content for casual content for casual players in an acceptably timely fashion. Please define "sufficient", "casual", and "acceptably timely". You go on to use words like "any casual player Templar" and even "timeframe that is reasonable". You admit this is subjective...but apparantly that's ok in your post, but not in previous posts. I'll admit that discussions based around terms like "casual" tend to annoy me a bit. After all, every person here feels they are "casual". <a href="http://kendricke.wordpress.com/2006/09/15/casual-hardcoreor-hardcover-casual/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">I'd personally assert </a>that most self-proclaimed casual players aren't really casual at all. The fact that we're here discussing the subject of damage per second is essentially proof of that. We're able to cite numbers. We're recording movies of ourselves soloing as proof to use in message board arguments. Whether we play as seriously as some is not the issue. The fact that we're here looking for ways to improve our play pretty much defines away the concept of casual. We might solo a bit, and we might be interested in ways to take down blue ^^^ heroics faster (honestly...we suck because we don't solo kill group content fast enough!?), but that doesn't mean we're casual by any means...not in any real sense of the word.So, we can argue about whether or not our damage is high enough. We can cite numbers regarding hits, hits per second, spell damage, levels, achievements, and time spent in fights. We can discuss our ideas about what is and is not adequate, reasonable, acceptable, timely, sufficient, low, or high. But to say we're casual? At that point, you've lost me.

Caethre

06-05-2007, 05:41 AM

OOC.Kendricke wrote: <blockquote>Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>This is something that SOE Developers have specifically stated in the past is their guideline aim, so it is not unreasonable as a target for us, as players, to expect. </blockquote> Link?</blockquote>Sorry, I do not keep a list of links, nor do I remember where this was posted. But I do remember who posted it - it was Lockeye - a post made many months ago, stating that a guideline was that all priests would have DPS within about 10% of eachother. You can search for the link yourself if you wish. Alternatively, you can ask him, but he will reply only if he chooses to, of course.The rest of your post was not constructive at all, so I'll just let it pass.

Kendricke

06-05-2007, 07:12 AM

Without a link, it never happened. As much as you may think you remember this information cleary, it's entirely too possible that you're misremembering or at the very least, that you're leaving out vital context and/or only selectively remembering bits and pieces of what may or may not have been said. For example, you originally stated "developers", but now when pressed, you only recall Locke specifically. Were there other developers? It sounds trivial, but memory's funny that way.

Kendricke

06-05-2007, 08:37 AM

Tash 123 wrote: <blockquote>Many interesting thoughts but its just a lot of words again. I am just interested what Templar in a given situation put out in dps.So after my run today. Haste 42% DPS 20% Str 389 Int 340Result 487 DPS average.<img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />And the movie <a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=ChylLTTvj9A" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=ChylLTTvj9A</a>That's it! <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />/Tash</blockquote>Same Basilisks you just fought Run of 20 Haste 42% DPS 20% STR 327 INT 268 Result 723.39 DPS average (Spiked to well over 800 several times. Highest DPS was 939.17 on this run.)For this run I ONLY used:<ul><li> Spurn (Master I, Enhanced 1)</li><li>Hammer Smite (Apprentice IV)</li><li>Warring Axiom (Master I, Enhanced 5)</li><li>Judging Smite (Adept III, Enhanced 5)</li><li>Holy Strike (Adept III, Enhanced 5)</li><li>Blackscale Maul (Viral Binding)</li></ul>I did not use divine recovery, nor did I use the Unswerving Hammer of Faith. No heroic opportunities were used.

Banadux

06-05-2007, 07:38 PM

links to character profiles and maybe achievement spec overview might shed some light on the difference.

Tash 1

06-05-2007, 08:15 PM

Now it starts to get interesting. Kendricke Tashiana Haste 42 42 DPS 20 20 STR 327 389 INT 268 340 Spurn Master I, Enhanced 1 Master I, Enhanced 5 Hammer Smite Apprentice IV Apprentice IV Warring Axiom Master I, Enhanced 5 Master I, Enhanced 5 Judging Smite Adept III, Enhanced 5 Adept III, Enhanced 5 Holy Strike Adept III, Enhanced 5 Master I, Enhanced 5 Weapon Blackscale Maul (Viral Binding) Blackscale Maul (Molten Binding) Melee crit 88% Spell crit 28% Spell haste 14,4% DPS 723 487With the given setup it seem that no singel factor should be in your favor and even so you out dps me with 48%. I really dont see how this can be tha case..... Any clues?/Tash

Occam

06-06-2007, 02:14 AM

I'm assuming that you're both using ACT to parse your DPS. How do you have it set to signal the end of combat? I've noticed that if you've got it set to end after no damage is done for x amount of seconds, your DPS drops the longer it's set for. The problem is, if you set it too low it will cut off in the middle of the fight if you need to stun and heal, thus skewing the parse. I'm wondering if the discrepancy might not lie at least partially in the way you're parsing.I request that the two of you make sure you're both using the same settings and try again. I will do a round of basilisk writs myself when I get home tomorrow and see what I come up with. I've currently got it set to end combat 2 seconds after the last combat action. (On short fights like basilisks 2 seconds is fine. I was soloing nameds in Catacombs last night and Several times a single fight would get split up into 3 different parses because I had to stun the mob and heal myself.)

Antryg Mistrose

06-06-2007, 07:01 AM

Looked an interesting comparison so I dug my templar out of retirement and had a go, with some melee gear on: Haste: 42, DPS: 55 Melee Crit: 1% (Crush was only 30 something pct of my damage) Spell Crit: 24% Str 455 Int 211 Agi 44781 Int 44681 EoF: Mark 5, AmendingFate 5, InvRestore 5, UnyieldingBen 2/2, Blessings. (Only 72 points and no adornments - retired after all) Blackscale Maul and about 40 odd Basilisks. (Kept going as I was getting better once I had more practise) 398dps to start, 440dps later on average. Spikes 295-560 (a lot lower than you see presumably as stuff all melee crits) I did notice a lot of times the mob was on a smidgeon of health, wasting extra attacks, so not having enhancing Smites & Strikes & Warring Ax might be a factor. Judging Smite is Adept3, everything else I used Master (Bit of Mark, bit of Spurn, bit of Sign, WarAxiom and Smite/Strike of course I was interrupted a lot. (Yaup up the whole time). Continual HO.s Planning to up INT and try again some time. May even respec if I get really bored <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kendricke

06-06-2007, 08:36 AM

<cite>Occam wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm assuming that you're both using ACT to parse your DPS. How do you have it set to signal the end of combat? I've noticed that if you've got it set to end after no damage is done for x amount of seconds, your DPS drops the longer it's set for. The problem is, if you set it too low it will cut off in the middle of the fight if you need to stun and heal, thus skewing the parse. I'm wondering if the discrepancy might not lie at least partially in the way you're parsing.I request that the two of you make sure you're both using the same settings and try again. I will do a round of basilisk writs myself when I get home tomorrow and see what I come up with. I've currently got it set to end combat 2 seconds after the last combat action. (On short fights like basilisks 2 seconds is fine. I was soloing nameds in Catacombs last night and Several times a single fight would get split up into 3 different parses because I had to stun the mob and heal myself.)</blockquote> Good call, Occam. I actually use "X has gained experience" since I'm not quite at 100 achievements yet, AND "Stop combat after 6 seconds". That said, I believe Aditu could confirm that even if combat ends so many seconds after combat, that those extra seconds aren't calculated in to the DPS totals.

Kendricke

06-06-2007, 09:26 AM

Tash 123 wrote: <blockquote>Now it starts to get interesting. Kendricke Tashiana Haste 42 42 DPS 20 20 STR 327 389 INT 268 340 Spurn Master I, Enhanced 1 Master I, Enhanced 5 Hammer Smite Apprentice IV Apprentice IV Warring Axiom Master I, Enhanced 5 Master I, Enhanced 5 Judging Smite Adept III, Enhanced 5 Adept III, Enhanced 5 Holy Strike Adept III, Enhanced 5 Master I, Enhanced 5 Weapon Blackscale Maul (Viral Binding) Blackscale Maul (Molten Binding) Melee crit 88% Spell crit 28% Spell haste 14,4% DPS 723 487With the given setup it seem that no singel factor should be in your favor and even so you out dps me with 48%. I really dont see how this can be tha case..... Any clues?/Tash</blockquote> Presuming we have ACT set up the same, it's going to come down to additional achievements, gear, and skill (what we actually do during the fight). I actually have an entire set of gear (much of it not my fabled raid gear, mind you) which is built around ways to increase damage. For example, I follow Marr and use a Cloak of Valor while soloing. I also switch out for the Planar Orb of the Wanderer (for the damage proc). I put on the Belt of Sinister Creation to stifle targets. I put on the Relic Breastplace for the additional focus on Warring Axiom. When I get into the fight itself, I concentrate only on what's going to help me through the fight. I don't heal, I don't drop additional debuffs, I don't even use Heroic triggers anymore (disables my Smite Wrath). I use Spurn, Warring Axiom, then get into the Smite/Strike/Smite rhythm, casting an additional Warring Axiom every other set. From time to time, if the fight is particularly brutal regarding interrupts (it rarely is), I'll use Divine Recovery or or a daze/stun. Otherwise, I tend to stick to the same general order.It's different against Heroics, but that's for another post. Right now, I'm focusing on basilisks as a baseline, and on why you and I seem to have different DPS rates against them.

LowfyrWildforge

06-06-2007, 09:50 AM

There's two different directions that you can go to use DPS. 1) The Yaulp/Melee approach It's not as good as nuking, no matter how you try to rig it. Yaulp is a waste of time. 2) The Nuke Approach Nearly everyone reporting the higher DPS numbers is using nukes, has proc items like the Bone-Clasped Girdle and Grizzlefazzle's Mace, and Smite Wrath and the Proc increase percentage AA. Those people reporting the 1600 DPS are fighting vampires, and usually have the moons of Saturn in exact alignment with other class buffs. I'm pulling about 550 dps roughly, at the moment, although I haven't put a huge effort into optimizing my gear.

Mabes

06-06-2007, 11:19 AM

<cite>LowfyrWildforge wrote:</cite><blockquote>There's two different directions that you can go to use DPS. 1) The Yaulp/Melee approach It's not as good as nuking, no matter how you try to rig it. Yaulp is a waste of time. 2) The Nuke Approach Nearly everyone reporting the higher DPS numbers is using nukes, has proc items like the Bone-Clasped Girdle and Grizzlefazzle's Mace, and Smite Wrath and the Proc increase percentage AA. Those people reporting the 1600 DPS are fighting vampires, and usually have the moons of Saturn in exact alignment with other class buffs. I'm pulling about 550 dps roughly, at the moment, although I haven't put a huge effort into optimizing my gear.</blockquote>I would say the best dps comes from a combination of both, with timing melee swings between nukes. As far as yaulp goes, yeah the loss of focus and power drain make it poor for when solo'ing mobs near or higher than you're level, but it's nice for dps'ing when in group/raid.As for any other advice, for solo gear I'd suggest loading up on +focus, damage procs, and damage shields. Also, make sure you're getting melee swings in, so never put nukes in queue, give a moment to get the melee swing off between casts. I personally have the melee combat damage in chat for when dps'ing, so I can time it to get most melee swings in while still nuking a lot. And while blackscale maul isn't bad, there's better options out there if you raid, which can add a significant amount of damage.

Kendricke

06-06-2007, 01:20 PM

<cite>Mabes wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LowfyrWildforge wrote:</cite><blockquote>There's two different directions that you can go to use DPS. 1) The Yaulp/Melee approach It's not as good as nuking, no matter how you try to rig it. Yaulp is a waste of time. 2) The Nuke Approach Nearly everyone reporting the higher DPS numbers is using nukes, has proc items like the Bone-Clasped Girdle and Grizzlefazzle's Mace, and Smite Wrath and the Proc increase percentage AA. Those people reporting the 1600 DPS are fighting vampires, and usually have the moons of Saturn in exact alignment with other class buffs. I'm pulling about 550 dps roughly, at the moment, although I haven't put a huge effort into optimizing my gear.</blockquote>I would say the best dps comes from a combination of both, with timing melee swings between nukes. As far as yaulp goes, yeah the loss of focus and power drain make it poor for when solo'ing mobs near or higher than you're level, but it's nice for dps'ing when in group/raid.As for any other advice, for solo gear I'd suggest loading up on +focus, damage procs, and damage shields. Also, make sure you're getting melee swings in, so never put nukes in queue, give a moment to get the melee swing off between casts. I personally have the melee combat damage in chat for when dps'ing, so I can time it to get most melee swings in while still nuking a lot. And while blackscale maul isn't bad, there's better options out there if you raid, which can add a significant amount of damage. </blockquote>Actually, most of the players reporting 1500+ DPS are discussing group or raid situations...where group composition and multi-class debuffs make a huge difference.What's going on here is a discussion on Templar only DPS (or at least that's how I see it). No outside resources. Facts. Parse runs. Links. Information.I realize that in your world, one requires exceptional gear and "the moons of Saturn" to be aligned. In my world, successful factors and strategy can be quantified, measured, shared, and repeated....Toward that end, I'll be running a new set of tests later this week (booked up tonight through Friday) where I'll run parses that show only autoattack (with and without Yaulp, using different achievement builds, and with a variety of weapons), with spellcasting only (with different acheivement builds) and a combination of the two. I'll do my best to come to some level of quantitative conclusions regarding what is and is not the best route for a soloing Templar. I both challenge and welcome other Templars to do the same.

Antryg Mistrose

06-07-2007, 02:38 AM

Ok, getting a bit silly now (didn't properly work out how many points I needed to save for INT line so nobody in their right mind would use this build, but still) : Haste: 42, DPS: 20 Double Attack: 20 Melee Crit: 101% Spell Crit: 27% Str 427 Int 255 Sta 44881 Int 4478(oops) EoF: Mark 5, AmendingFate 5, InvRestore 5, UnyieldingBen 2/2, Blessings 490dps (With Yaup) after a bit of practise, spiking 360-602 Spurn to pull (and set /autoattack 1 and Divine Providence in a macro), Axiom, then HOs. Hammer Smite when up. (dropping Yaup looked to lose about 70dps but my sample size was small)

Kendricke

06-07-2007, 09:31 AM

Antryg Mistrose wrote: <blockquote>Ok, getting a bit silly now (didn't properly work out how many points I needed to save for INT line so nobody in their right mind would use this build, but still) : Haste: 42, DPS: 20 Double Attack: 20 Melee Crit: 101% Spell Crit: 27% Str 427 Int 255 Sta 44881 Int 4478(oops) EoF: Mark 5, AmendingFate 5, InvRestore 5, UnyieldingBen 2/2, Blessings 490dps (With Yaup) after a bit of practise, spiking 360-602 Spurn to pull (and set /autoattack 1 and Divine Providence in a macro), Axiom, then HOs. Hammer Smite when up. (dropping Yaup looked to lose about 70dps but my sample size was small) </blockquote> Actually, my build is STA 44881 INT 44781. So, except for that fact that you took Divine Aura over Divine Recovery, we're using an identical build on that end.

Antryg Mistrose

06-07-2007, 11:04 AM

<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually, my build is STA 44881 INT 44781. So, except for that fact that you took Divine Aura over Divine Recovery, we're using an identical build on that end. </blockquote>Not sure I follow = STA44881 INT44781 isn't possible. I ended up with STA44881 INT44780 as I got a bit enthusiastic clicking during the respec. I think if I keep something similar it would be STA44871 INT44681 as when I was raiding as a Templar, I'd try to melee, but wouldn't waste much power on hostile spells. It certainly looks very nice for soloing, as Shield Ally is obviously ineffective. Weird how different classes operate - on the basilisks I'd grab as many as I could find on my ShadowKnight and just AoE them down, and with Troubador charm one and set it on another. 1plat respec now, so thats the end of my testing. I can see with these particular mobs if my Nukes were a fraction bigger the DPS would step change up (due to the frequent sliver of health while I waited for a nuke to recharge, or maul to hit at the end of the fight) so Smite Wrath for soloing certainly looks attractive (at least against mobs like these that don't require any healing). Add in adornments, and I can see where literally hundreds of dps more could come from How far we have come. Now, Anyone know where I can buy a Vraksakin Club, cheap?

dragontamer619

06-07-2007, 12:28 PM

I just read all this at work and want to join in the fun. I have a purely melee spec'd Templar, and before I add my inputs to this I have a question. I will post all my Templar's stats later when I get home. I know some of them but I would rather post them all at once. =) But I look forward to seeing how my Tempy stacks up to the rest of you all. edit: I got home and here are my Templar's stats: Haste: 42 DPS: 64 Double Attack: 20 Melee Crit: 101% Spell Crit: 1% Str 335 Int 213STA 4 4 8 AGI 4 4 8 STA 4 4 8EoF - Blessing and Cures are pretty much maxed out Weapon is the Blackscale Maul with Molten Binding Average was 434.59. My highest DPS was 592.18 My lowest DPS was 319.35I pulled with Spurn, HO, Axiom, Symbol of Corruption, hammer smite, I would time my melee swings between castings. Rinse and repeat.I will play with my gear somemore to see if I can get my STR and INT higher. I don't think I am doing too bad though. I want to change my EoF AAs because the cure line is less than stellar IMO.

Tash 1

06-08-2007, 04:58 AM

I have done another run.The 2 changes I have done is a) Stopped using heroic opportunities since I was not aware that this disables my Smite Wrath. b) I changed the parser to end combat 3 sec after last combat action instead of 10 sec as beforeThe most difference was the change of the parser.This run ended up with an average of 618 with highest 923 and lowest 432. It might be that a faster closing of parser might result in a better dps number. The difference between 723 and 623 is about 16% and might very well be a result of the different parsing settings.So hmm well atm we have that Templar do about 434 - 723 dps against this special mob. 723 Kendricke 623 Tashiana 490 Antryg 434 SilverThe biggest difference in parser results seem to be in the way the parser is set up as I see it./Tash

Occam

06-08-2007, 07:14 PM

<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote>That said, I believe Aditu could confirm that even if combat ends so many seconds after combat, that those extra seconds aren't calculated in to the DPS totals. </blockquote> Yeah, that's what I had originally thought when I started using ACT, but after playing with it for awhile I noticed a definite difference depending on how it's set. Aditu, you're the pro here, any insight about this?One other thing to be aware of is that the basilisks have a DoT that they'll hit you with during the fight. If you've got the DoT on you and it fires off after the basilisk dies but before the time runs out signaling the end of combat, your parse will suffer because it adds that time (when you were doing no damage because your target is already dead) to the calculation. To get a "clean" parse, keep your finger hovered over your cure hotkey and mash that sucker the instant combat ends.So many freakin' variables... :p

Occam

06-08-2007, 07:17 PM

I still plan to throw my parse into the mix as well, but it looks like it's going to have to wait until after the weekend. Man, this whole "RL" thing really gets in the way of my gaming. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

EQAditu

06-09-2007, 07:36 AM

<cite>Occam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote>That said, I believe Aditu could confirm that even if combat ends so many seconds after combat, that those extra seconds aren't calculated in to the DPS totals. </blockquote> Yeah, that's what I had originally thought when I started using ACT, but after playing with it for awhile I noticed a definite difference depending on how it's set. Aditu, you're the pro here, any insight about this?One other thing to be aware of is that the basilisks have a DoT that they'll hit you with during the fight. If you've got the DoT on you and it fires off after the basilisk dies but before the time runs out signaling the end of combat, your parse will suffer because it adds that time (when you were doing no damage because your target is already dead) to the calculation. To get a "clean" parse, keep your finger hovered over your cure hotkey and mash that sucker the instant combat ends.So many freakin' variables... :p</blockquote> When relying only on the timeout method of ending combat, the Unknown combatant will not reset the countdown but the data will still be recorded. In this way you can have X seconds after the mob has died that you are still damaged by the DoT. This can affect the encounter duration. Though considering this is a solo test, I see no need to use the encounter duration(ExtDPS) at all. Using your own personal duration(DPS) should be the most relevant and is not affected by the DoT... unless you heal yourself. Healing will affect your personal duration, though it will not affect the encounter duration(any longer). I suppose if you wish a fool proof method without having to avoid healing yourself or making sure you are cured, you can use full selective parsing with only yourself included, enemy combatants excluded and then you will be safe to use ExtDPS. Since ACT will refuse to record any data about the basilisks or whatever and healing will not affect ExtDPS.

Kendricke

06-09-2007, 01:26 PM

I just spent 3 hours parsing on Basilisks with multiple Cleric achievement builds (yes, it was expensive). I did not touch Templar builds for these runs. By and away, the best builds were those which included a combination of melee criticals (STA line) and spell haste (INT line) and which used Yaulp. In fact, even the direct spellcaster builds were made better by using Yaulp. I'll post more of the actual data and screenshots later, but the quick version of my conclusion on the "best" cleric build for purposes of DPS:<ul><li>Cleric: STA 448 AGI 448 INT 4445 (Templar: Smites/Blessings, Enhanced Spurn)</li><li>Use Yaulp</li><li>Use Spurn (and no other debuffs)</li><li>Do not use Divine Castigation</li></ul>Why am I recommending that build? Because, without using any tricks, potions, damage shields, unswerving hammer, miracles, or blessings, this was the general result using the above build:Total Fights per Run: 33 Fight Duration: Range: 8 to 18 sec Median: 12 sec Average: 12.59 sec Highest Hit: Range: 1330 to 1917 Median: 1480 Average: 1555.69 DPS: Range: 537 to 1214 Median: 793 Average: 835.54

Teaerd

06-11-2007, 12:41 PM

Ok...new to Templar and cannot for the life of me figure out how you get 42% haste. I get 20% from Yaulp but I don't see where the rest comes from. Please enlighten me! Thanks

dragontamer619

06-11-2007, 01:18 PM

Yaulp gives you the 20% haste. If you equip your Flowing Black Silk Sash, that will give you an extra 15% haste. My Templar uses the Gauntlest of Glorious Speed, which gives a 22% haste. You can get them from the first Mark of Awakening Trial, or off the broker. That is how I get my 42% haste. Also, there is a quest you can do in Tenebrous Tangle to get an item that gives you extra haste for 5 minutes. It has 3 charges on it though, and I think it's repeatable. If memory serves correctly, you can only have Yaulp, 1 spell haste, and 1 equipment haste on you. You can't have your FBSS and the Gauntlets of Glorious Speed on because they don't stack like that. I want to give my parse another round. I think I can get it higher than what I have it at now, without changing a whole lot. I might use a different hammer other than my Blackscale Maul. The only other 2 hander I have is my Velium Shard hammer from Deathtoll. Nonetheless I will see what it can do for me.

Goozman

06-12-2007, 01:26 PM

I did this test last october on EoF beta with a Templar in relic gear and some crappy one hand hammer. Because of the crappy weapon, I didn't melee spec at all. I went all spells, INT line, and Smites. So you can imagine how much higher it would have been with melee.(00:51) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 27225 - [533.82] (01:03) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 36853 - [584.97] (01:03) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 36853 - [584.97] (00:47) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 33817 - [719.51] (00:51) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 27544 - [540.08] (00:57) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 33945 - [595.53] (00:51) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 33830 - [663.33] (00:46) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 27008 - [587.13] (00:47) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 33671 - [716.40] - By this time I was starting to get in the groove (00:45) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 33747 - [749.93] (00:38 ) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 33218 - [874.16] (00:45) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 28130 - [625.11] (00:41) Damage - [DPS] Lukemia 33453 - [815.93] (01:36) Damage - [DPS] - This was a named, the only one that was up unfortunately. (It dropped wood btw) Lukemia 58732 - [611.79]These were all Green/Blue Heroics in SoS, no solo mobs included. I pretty much spam casted with no HO's and that was my only trick.

Oakum

06-12-2007, 03:41 PM

Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>OOC.(b) With priest class comparison, DPS roughly equivalent to other priest classes. We are competing with other priests, make no bones about it, and class balance matters! For this purpose, my target has always been, to have DPS for all six priest classes to be within 10% of eachother. This is something that SOE Developers have specifically stated in the past is their guideline aim, so it is not unreasonable as a target for us, as players, to expect. The example question here is "Do you find that a casual player Templar can get solo DPS that is within an acceptable difference range from an equivalently geared soloing Fury, against normal solo content?" This sort of thing, can, of course, be parsed.Felishanna.</blockquote>Acutally, as a warden who reads dev post religously I do not remember the dev's saying that at all. I remember them saying that all priest will heal roughly equally though and we do. I also remember when they buffed cleric and shaman DPS so that they could solo adequately. Class balance for all priest classes lies in other areas basically. Armor quality versus dps ability, all DH verus regens and efficiency, melee/ca vs nuke for those who can choose, and buffs/debuffs/utility comparisons. As a priest/dps hybrid I traded leather armor for the ability for dps when I started my druid in dec of 2004. It personally irritates me when chain and plate priest can out dps me. Well maybe not irritates as much since I am getting used to that imbalance, but is sadly dissappointing. Now as far as my warden DPS goes, soloing a 65 3up in catacombs(after dieing twice to it) I had a dps of around 450. In a raid on trash I once did a burst for low 800's but 4 to 550 normal (if not healing). I think the dev's did a good job of raising cleric and shaman dps so that they can solo adequately now. Unfortuneately, they forgot to raise the warden DPS for class balancing reasons. Druids should still do more dps since we still wear leather.

Gagla

06-12-2007, 04:19 PM

Don't forget utility. I'd like to be able to port to any druid ring.

Occam

06-12-2007, 05:08 PM

Oakum wrote: <blockquote>F<a href="mailto:Felishanna@Antonia" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">elishanna@Antonia</a> Bayle wrote: Now as far as my warden DPS goes, soloing a 65 3up in catacombs(after dieing twice to it) I had a dps of around 450. In a raid on trash I once did a burst for low 800's but 4 to 550 normal (if not healing). I think the dev's did a good job of raising cleric and shaman dps so that they can solo adequately now. Unfortuneately, they forgot to raise the warden DPS for class balancing reasons. Druids should still do more dps since we still wear leather. </blockquote> I hate to say it, but if you as a warden are only doing that much DPS, the issue is with you and not with the game. I obviously can't say where your shortcoming is, but it could be your equipment, AA setup, whether your spells are adepts or masters or simply your skill level.I know a warden who I used to raid with regularly who is NOT fabled out or mastered out. When he goes DPS on raids he often parses above everyone except the wizzies and swashies. I have managed to spike to his level (1200-1400 range), but he does this regularly and spikes for much higher.I'd suggest you look at your setup before saying that clerics are too easily out parsing you.