Raiding: Adept III's vs. Master I's

[Eskio]

Fellow Wizards, Background: I have been raiding alot recently and working on increasing my zonewide parse as much as I can.  I typically raid with two fellow wizards, who are both fully mastered and have quite a bit of fabled gear.  Personally, I have pretty much all legendary gear, 700 int, and 7500 power with all Adept III spells and agi/wis/fire/ice AA specs.  When I began raiding, I would typically parse around 800-1000 on raids depending on where we went and have increased that to 1000-1400 pretty easily, with it usually being 1200-1400.  One of the other wizards I raid with is usually in the 1500-1800 range, and the other in the 1600-2200 range depending on the raid.  After each raid, I always compare my ACT numbers with their and see where I lacked or excelled at for the raid.  My casting and hit numbers are typically very similar to theirs, however their dps is usually much higher.  Obviously alot of it has to do with timing, i.e. casting the big spells when int. buffs and debuffs are called out by fellow raiders.  However, my usual conclusion after comparing the parses, is that 80 percent of their dps increase is coming from BoL, Fusion, Irradiate, Ice Nova, and Firestorm even though our casting numbers are virtually identical.  I know I still have alot to learn, but is the majority of this do to them having master I's instead of adept III's, or is it just skill or am I missing something? Question: How much of a dps increase do Master I's provide us over Adept III's for our top damage spells? PS: And yes, I've skimmed through the parse thread.

[SacDaddy420]

a noticable increase

[Dextera]

Master Is do increase DPS, but a majority of the total DPS comes from spell casting orders and queues.

[IllusiveThoughts]

<cite>Griffon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fellow Wizards, Background: I have been raiding alot recently and working on increasing my zonewide parse as much as I can.  I typically raid with two fellow wizards, who are both fully mastered and have quite a bit of fabled gear.  Personally, I have pretty much all legendary gear, 700 int, and 7500 power with all Adept III spells and agi/wis/fire/ice AA specs.  When I began raiding, I would typically parse around 800-1000 on raids depending on where we went and have increased that to 1000-1400 pretty easily, with it usually being 1200-1400.  One of the other wizards I raid with is usually in the 1500-1800 range, and the other in the 1600-2200 range depending on the raid.  After each raid, I always compare my ACT numbers with their and see where I lacked or excelled at for the raid.  My casting and hit numbers are typically very similar to theirs, however their dps is usually much higher.  Obviously alot of it has to do with timing, i.e. casting the big spells when int. buffs and debuffs are called out by fellow raiders.  However, my usual conclusion after comparing the parses, is that 80 percent of their dps increase is coming from BoL, Fusion, Irradiate, Ice Nova, and Firestorm even though our casting numbers are virtually identical.  I know I still have alot to learn, but is the majority of this do to them having master I's instead of adept III's, or is it just skill or am I missing something? Question: How much of a dps increase do Master I's provide us over Adept III's for our top damage spells? PS: And yes, I've skimmed through the parse thread. </blockquote><p>a difference that large is primarily due to buffs, if player skill is equal. </p><p>Masters dont account for that large a gap, neither is gear, or AA set up, put them together, and you wont get a 50% difference like you're seeing. </p><p>What kind of buffs / support do you generally get when you compare these parses? what about the other two wizards?  with 3 on a raid its very difficult to optimize all 3, generally 1 gets the most support the other gets a hate reduc buff, and the 3rd gets left out in the cold.</p>

[TheBu]

<p>I think with masters u can expect around a 15% increase in damage.. . <b>and</b> less resist. you should be able to compare on the broker.. ps. . u really need the masters BoL,  Ice Nova, Firestorm, Fusion and Irradiate are all great spells. when looking at the parse they may use ther masters over some of ther other spells...  but those u said really are great spells. if ther usin ther debuff it may not allow u to cast urs.. giving them increase dps as well..</p><p>700ish is what my wizzy has. . but he a bit old schold from kos and wimpy on the resist.. no crit line and no manaburn...  ( this is where he really lacks..  and apears u also?) But another wiz in the guild is a bit over 900 int ( with same fury buffs) and well off the top of my head they wer purhaps around 10-20% above me... in exdps..  with about the same spells and they prob have 40 more aas than me. allthough i died a few times.. from sucky resist.. </p><p>1. The masters about 15%? 2. u said they have better gear?  prob + to crits and +disruption      [also gear that allows faster casting of some of the spells]      [ note the procing gear as well] 3. I would bet they have crits( another 15%?) and manaburn.... 4. Also try using the procs friged gift and surge. 5. adornments? what u got? those + to damage and +to int add up</p><p>I would not be suprised if a fully mastered/ 100 aa procing wizzy could double the parse of another wiz.</p><p>You talking ext dps? and wer u raiding? u have fury trub? what about a warlock?  Also u got the master2 cold ae? also use the iceshield if ther not. . </p><p>Any way.. i recomend getting the masters. . as any wizzy worth anything should not be out parsed by someone who does not have them...</p>

[Eskio]

Thank you for youre responses Illusive and Buzz.  You both asked a lot of questions so I'll try and address them the best I can. Illusive: You're exactly right about optimizing the raid.  We typically raid with three wizards, and recently four.  Unfortunately, myself and another wizard get left out on a majority of the buffs.  The two wizards who i was referring to earlier usually get the majority of the buff's (VIM, and TC).  I usually get one int buff (which puts me around 770 or so) and will usually get a trouby/dirge for power regeneration.  However, they usually get a a majority of the int buffs (which usually puts them around or over 900) and usually a power regen type. Buzz: You asked quite a few questions.  In regards to the crit/manaburn aa spec you were talking about.  All three of us are specc'd the same: agi/wis/fire/ice.  Most raiding wizards will tell you that manaburn isn't the way to go for raiding, and the agi/wis and str/wis spec's are completly debatable.  So I'll leave those debates out of this thread.  In regards to your crit and disruptions questions, you bring up excellent points.  Obviously those are the other two huge factors outside of int. that effects a wizards dps.  Personally, selfbuffed, i have 10 percent crit and 380 disruption, and I believe that is very similar to theirs.  And lastly, adornments.  I'm not fully adorned, but I do have alot of the treas/legendary ones (+int, +power, +disrup, etc.). The whole point of this post was to try and determine if master's were worth the plat.  And since I've posted, I have purchased a few masters: including BoL, Irradiate, and Iceshield ( originally had M2 Iceshield, but found it cheap so i bought it and respecced to Glacial Winds ).  I have seen a bit of an increase in dps with them which is nice.  Also prior to the last couple weeks, I have never really used Frigid Gift and Inferno Surge, so I'm still learning how/when to use them etc. On a side note, we raided Lyceum last night and I parsed around 1600 zonewide.  So not horrible, but not great for a wizzy either.  One thing I did notice was that my single target dps sucks in comparison.  For almost all the aoe fights, I would be over 2000, and typically around 2200-2500.  However for single target fights, usually around 1000-1200 while one of the other wizard was usually 2000+.  That wizard does have a fusion and ice nova masters which I think was helping her alot, but I did notice that she was casting a couple more BoL's and less DoT's than I was.  Regardless, the whole point of a raid is to help us all get better, and I think I have a good idea what I need to work on. Additionally, it appears that the general consesus for my original question is around 100-400 dps depending on the skill of the player.

[Dextera]

<p>First off, Time Comp/Syn is a HUGE boost to DPS. Depending on the person, with both it can rocket your DPS by nearly 800-1000.</p><p>Second, your bread and butter spells (the top5) are ABSOLUTELY worth the plat. The others are worth it imo, but it's a case by case basis, as every little amount of damage helps.</p><p>Third, I've found that a good barrier for a Wizard tends to be around the 2.2k DPS mark, single target, with just a Troub/Fury. This is without any of the crazy Avatar/Contested loot. So try to aim for that. It's all about improving your spell queue.</p>

[azraphaels]

<p>i am now almost fully mastered (1-70) and i think the main thing you notice is the resist rate decreasing more than anything. I can also attest to the fact your dps is largely down to your spell order and what debuffs you are getting and who is in your group.</p><p>For example with frigid gift, freehand sorcery then fusion (with the added bonus of the proc from your plasma wand) you can do massive damage (esp. if someone has just dispatched the mob for you)</p><p> High DPS is easy, keeping away from the resultant hate you gain is less so ! And remember Iceshied (and all its counterparts across the levels) is your best friend as you get dps for doing nothing !!!</p>