Question about Hate from DM

[Naithachal]

<p>Hi,</p><p>Can someone explain me the following.</p><p>We were in EH and fought Sarik the Fang. Me as OT and a Guard as MT. Now as Sarik spawn his ADD's i switched target cast Sacrilege, DM and my AE's but still fail to pull Agro. I had to use Single Taunt and all i have to get at least one of em. Then with big trouble i had to Taunt one by one from the MT and later in fight from our DD's. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This happend all the time when he spawn his ADDs and DM was up. It was as DM had absolutly no agro effect.</p><p>I never had such Agro trouble.</p><p>It's the first time i fought Sarik as OT but as i last used DM this early in a fight on other encounters, i had all MOBs on me. Well beside the MOB the MT had on target maby.</p>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>They can be a bit resistant....it also depends on what kinda aggro transfer the MT has going on him....and what he's using right when they pop too. I've had the same thing happen a couple times...a taunt or 2 later, or 1 lifetap and they came round.</p><p>Not a bad idea for OT to have 1 aggro transferer on him there as well if you want it to be smoother. They don't hit particularly hard though, so you have a few seconds to control em really...I've seen em beating on some rather weak armored toons for a good bit before OTs controled em...without killing the toons, or even dammaging em bad.</p>

[Naithachal]

<p>Hmm, well i had aggro transfer on me. And yes they didnt Hit hard so it was'nt such a big problem for the Fight. But what surprises me is that DM obviously had no agro effect at all. I pulled Agro the same on the ADD's while DM was not up, no diffrence. </p>

[AziBam]

Well, I'm thinking about the mechanics of DM and your situation.  We know it doesn't have a direct hate component but instead it is a super buff of all the members of your group.  That buffing generates threat.  So, if DM is cast before anyone in your group has gotten onto the hate list of the adds it wouldn't have any effect at all I believe.  If you and at least several of your groupmates have engaged the mob in some way it should provide quite a bit more aggro.  I know you said you cast Sacrilege first so at least you were on the list.  If I understand DM correctly though, if nobody else in your group had engaged the adds you were generating quite a bit less hate as only you were the recipient of the buffs as far as the mobs were concerned for hate purposes.  I think that part of the reason DM is so strong for aggro in a normal fight is that the buff will generate hate to you from all six members of your group since all have engaged the target.  Same would apply if you are OT and the MT dies.  You hit DM and the whole group is already engaged so it generates a ton of hate.  Perhaps in your case if only you had engaged the adds yet it just didn't have enough oomph to pull them your way.  I'd love to hear if someone else views the hate from DM differently but that is how I've understood it to work. 

[Tasmai]

<p>Az is 100% spot on. DM isn't a taunt. It's the best short term buff in the game. It's best to wait until more of your group mates get on the hate list before using it.</p><p> Maybe one day, SOE will make it a raid wide buff. I can dream.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Tasmai wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Az is 100% spot on. DM isn't a taunt. It's the best short term buff in the game. It's best to wait until more of your group mates get on the hate list before using it.</p><p> Maybe one day, SOE will make it a raid wide buff. I can dream.</p></blockquote>If they do, then SKs better step up for MT roles, because poppingt hat baby raid wide will rip aggro like nobodys buisness. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[holypaladin28]

<p>throw a group taunt then do dm </p>

[Giral]

<cite>Naithachal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hi,</p><p>Can someone explain me the following.</p><p>We were in EH and fought Sarik the Fang. Me as OT and a Guard as MT. Now as Sarik spawn his ADD's i switched target cast Sacrilege, DM and my AE's but still fail to pull Agro. I had to use Single Taunt and all i have to get at least one of em. Then with big trouble i had to Taunt one by one from the MT and later in fight from our DD's. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This happend all the time when he spawn his ADDs and DM was up. It was as DM had absolutly no agro effect.</p><p>I never had such Agro trouble.</p><p>It's the first time i fought Sarik as OT but as i last used DM this early in a fight on other encounters, i had all MOBs on me. Well beside the MOB the MT had on target maby.</p></blockquote><p> when they first tweaked death march it use to pull Mass agro, back when people were just raiding Labs,Loa,Dt.</p><p>now that our raid force is pretty geared up, i find that i can cast Dm alot earlier then i could previously,  i think the reason that Dm isn't pulling as much agro anymore is that Sk's are not as high up on the hate list anymore in EOF raid's. </p><p>say if Death march moves you up 6 places on the Agro list (i heard someone say thats what it does when cast) most Sk's are at the tail end of the Dp's list in 8th place if they make parse at all, especialy if your MA in Defensive with sword and Board your probably wont even make top 10 on the dp's list </p><p> a simple way to see that Death march still rip's Great snap agro is in a group setting, 9times out of 10 in a group casting death march Anytime even at the very end of a battle i will get Agro back  ,   in a group there is nly 6 spots on the agro position, and normaly even when tanking in a group your in the top 3 postions of dp's if not 1st or 2nd, so your already at the top of the agro list with your dp's+tuant's , if someone gets agro they moved up the hate tree beyond you , in a riad there are probably 8 people way ahead of you on the Hate tree raiding EOF content unless your totaly Dp's specced Sk doing 2 k damage constantly , then im sure Death march would get you agro alot more in raid's as you would be in a higher position on the hate listfrom your Dp's </p><p>if your casting Death march on the pull nobody is on the hate tree yet so that initial Move up the hate list is lost,becuase DM isnt a Tuant , its a Buff , a very huge buff that pisses mobs off when cast,  when you cast death march 5 seconds into a fight even in a raid in EOF i will get agro 90 % of the time becuase im on the hate list, and other;s havent had time to build up as much hate as they do 1/2 way thru the fight </p><p>these all just my opinions and what i have noticed about using DM. so who knows lol </p>

[Mr. Dawki]

<p>i think it all boils down to SK's having the must awfull taunts out of any tank class, honestly tot taunts (taunt over time) if i taunt something i want it to look at me NOW, not two or three ticks down the road, NOW!!!! </p><p>i have all but stopped grouping with my SK and reserved him for solo farming only UNLESS i know the group has a coercer/dirge/swashy/assassin . this because even a monk (without taunts or agro buffs ) will pull agro from me even after i burn a deathmarch. "well your not taunting right bla bla" whatever SK's have HUGE agro problems and the devs gave us crappy aa's to "try" and help IE 3% group hate transfer, PSSHHHHH. try 10 to 25% then it MIGHT be close to amends, the sole BEST agro helper spell for a tank EVER!</p>

[Kelkirra]

<cite>Tasmai wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Az is 100% spot on. DM isn't a taunt. It's the best short term buff in the game. It's best to wait until more of your group mates get on the hate list before using it.</p><p> Maybe one day, SOE will make it a raid wide buff. I can dream.</p></blockquote> Just be glad that it effects the group as it does now. If you'll remeber back a few months ago, the spell had to be PROCED from the death of a mob. In a raid situation, this was a useless spell unless you were in a high DPS group and could learn to time the death of the mob with DM. As far as having the worst taunts out of all of the fighters . . . go ahead and tell everyone here that they should play another tanking class. With EoF we because the 2nd best tank in the game thanks to the AA's EoF brought with it. DM itself generates a TON of hate, but you have to use it right. You're going to gain hate based on the amount of ppl in your group that are engaged in an encounter. If you're a MT in a group/raid, it's best to wait untill someone grabs agro and you know your enitre group is engaged, or just wait a little while untill your raid/group is going to be pumping out the damage and pop it off. The key that I've found with it is to ENSURE that your group is engaged so you can get the max hate from it ^.^

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

Just to clarify, Death March is not a taunt and does not provide set hate gain or threat position increases. It is a very powerful short term group buff. In addition to the standard damage, taunt and heal hate there is debuff and buff hate which is not nearly as transparent. Check the Brigand forum if you want to know more about debuff hate and the Mystic forum regarding buff hate. Buff hate works very much like heal hate. It is hate for all mobs you (or your targets) are engaged in. Group buffs generate particularly high levels of hate because it is essentially six buffs all in one. While Deathmarch only lasts a very short time, duration of the buff has no bearing on hate generation and the hate does not diminish when the buff wears off. Ever wonder why our group buffs have such long recast timers? Because with they make pretty effective in-encounter taunts.