A message from your friendly neighborhood Enchanter...

[Bluu]

Hi everyone! So I have been playing several different Enchanter characters since I started here on EQ2. I love em to death... I love to CC! But I swear, more often than not, my mezzing powers become obsolete in the groups I join as everybody seems to have this thing about going hogwild with AoE's and not assisting the MT. You see, I can understand forgoing the CC if you are in an overpowering group who's players never get below green health. I'm totally with ya there if you want to AoE like mad in a group like that. But I'm talking about groups where people are almost dying or have died due to the difficulty of the encoutners faced. Like last night, I was in SH with a group... we had a good healer but STILL many players were getting in the yellow / red health area, and almost died. Why? Because we would get adds, and every time we got adds, some 'hero' in the group would go try to off tank it. Heck, we had an add and I, the enchanter, was under attack and in the process of casting mezz... but our lovely hero tank decided that he was gonna run over and taunt it off of me. Okay, that's a standard good tank tactic right there... IF THERE IS NO ENCHANTER IN THE GROUP. Look at it this way. Enchanters are essentially healers. Because since we mezz the adds that would be normally wailing on you, you never take the damage you normally would. I'm just putting this out there because I am seeing a big trend on this particular game when it comes to the lack of assisting, allowing enchanters to mezz, and cautiousness with AoE's. So please, if you're grouped with an enchanter. If you remember nothing from what i've said here... remember this... ONE TARGET! Thank you!

[interstellarmatter]

90% of my groups, trying to mez is a waste of time.  It's easier to burn a mob down as fast as possible rather than stick to one at a time.  I was never happy at the way SOE designed combat in EQ2.  The mezzer was such an integral part of the group in EQ1.

[Zodiak]

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>The mezzer was such an integral part of the group in EQ1. </blockquote>That was a negative issue in itself though.  When you have 24 classes, you can't really afford to have 1 or 2 be as integral as the enchanter was in EQ2.  Having a chanter in your group should make things a bit safer, be a good thing to have - but shouldn't be required.  There doesn't need to be any barriers to grouping, i.e. waiting to get a particular class that you need.  We see that enough with healers, why add another static class into the mix? EQ1 enchanters were a brilliant class because of how required they were for a lot of XP group areas and raids.  However, I don't think that particular element of EQLive was one you'd want to bring over to EQ2.  Its fun to be the overpowered needed class, but its pretty much crap for the other classes who are left out.

[Dasein]

If you have an enchanter in your group, the entire group strategy has to be based around mezzing for the chanter to be of any use beyond limited DPS and a manabattery. However, a well-equipped tank and a couple of effectively healers means mezzing is useless and even counter-productive. Simply, EQ2 is not a game that has much use for CC.

[Iseabeil]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you have an enchanter in your group, the entire group strategy has to be based around mezzing for the chanter to be of any use beyond limited DPS and a manabattery. However, a well-equipped tank and a couple of effectively healers means mezzing is useless and even counter-productive. Simply, EQ2 is not a game that has much use for CC. </blockquote> I cant really agree on that. 9 times out of 10, the only CC I use is dazes, stuns and stifles, and focusing on DPS, and althou coercers are a bit more limited, an illusionist can put out very impressive DPS when played right. When mezzing is not needed, illusionists are a DPS class and a good one at that. That said, the OP has a point. There are occassions when mezzing is important, unless in very well equipped and coordinated groups, nizara and mistmoore castle being prime examples, and Ive seen my fair share of group wipes due to differing members of the group couldnt contrain themselves (In my case, the most common cause is summoner mage pets, the summoners themselves generally have wits to not cast AE DoTs before mez is on, but the pets doesnt care if I get resists or not). With so little content needing that type of CC tho, the issues that comes when its needed will probaly stay around.

[Mistletoes]

Maybe not much use for mez, but plenty of use for CC. CC includes many tools, such as root, stun, silence, daze, and of course, mez. Mez is great for when the group needs it, but like has been said before, that's fairly rare. In most cases, the other CC abilities fare well. As a coercer, I can help tremendously by stunning an add and silencing another while we burn down the one we're on. I can AE stun when the tank starts to drop a bit too low. And if a mob is on a healer (or me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, and nobody is picking it up, and everything else is lost, I can root it and back off, or if there are no DoTs on it, I can *try* to mez it. Heck, it might even work. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[mighty-mouse3872]

I have a question for the OP. Have you found a way to limit your chat box to just the text which states who awoke the mob?

[Bawang]

<p>I have both a 70 Illusionist and a lower Coercer.  I have stopped blaming players for using area effects which break mezz.  The fact is SOE knew from the beginning that enchanters would not be a workable class given that they gave so many other classes the ability to break mezz just by playing the way they NORMALLY play.  You can't expect people to suddenly change the routines use by rote just because you're in the group.  </p><p>I also played an enchanter as my main in EQ1 and we didn't have this problem.  One might ask, why did SOE go ahead and include enchanters in EQ2 anyway even knowing full well that they wouldn't work.  My answer to that is that games have constituencies, and SOE wanted every EQ1 constituency to buy into EQ2.  So, with the exception of the beastmaster, which was a latecomer to EQ1 anyway, they gave each EQ1 player a class in EQ2 that would be similar to the one they loved.  So we got suckered into playing enchanters.  But might as well accept that preaching to players isn't going to change things.  I tried that approach myself until I finally saw the light and laid blame on SOE's door.</p>

[FaeDesi]

70 coercer here.. Enchanters should never, ever, ever, ever, ever mez encountered mobs.  Your mez should ONLY be used for adds.  Period.  The only exceptions are some named mobs and if your tank really sucks at holding aggro.

[Eriol]

<cite>FaeDesi wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only exceptions are some named mobs and <b>if your tank really sucks at holding aggro.</b> </blockquote> So about 75% of the Pick-up-groups (PUGs) out there then?  <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bawang]

<cite>FaeDesi wrote:</cite><blockquote>70 coercer here.. Enchanters should never, ever, ever, ever, ever mez encountered mobs.  Your mez should ONLY be used for adds.  Period.  The only exceptions are some named mobs and if your tank really sucks at holding aggro. </blockquote> You seem to be assumming that the enchanter is in a full group.  IF the enchanter is soloing, does your ever, ever, ever, ever still hold? How about in a duo? does your ever, ever, ever, ever still hold? How about in a trio?......

[baguetteovenfresh]

this is kind of preaching to the choir - most people reading this are smart enough to.. well.. read, and dont break mez like you are describing. this message would be for the people too clueless to find this post on the forums anyway. and those are the ones off tanking non-encounter mobs or my personal favorite repeatedly breaking mez on the named while the group is taking out the weak adds (and it was stated by the tank in group!)

[ganjookie]

Bawang wrote: <blockquote> You seem to be assumming that the enchanter is in a full group.  IF the enchanter is soloing, does your ever, ever, ever, ever still hold? How about in a duo? does your ever, ever, ever, ever still hold? How about in a trio?......</blockquote> [Removed for Content]-monkey

[Dannan]

<p>I have a mid level Illusionist and while mezz is useful its not the cornerstone ability of either enchanter so I wonder why everyone here is treating it like it is.</p><p>Sure Its useful for setting the pace when you solo, but when your in a group you should be only using it if the tank/healer is getting overwhelmed, to lock down adds, or your going after things that are a real challenge to the group .  In most cases if everyone knows what they are doing its faster to let the AoE characters do their thing rather than slowing the group down.</p><p>Just remember its only 1 ability in your lineup, the others are still useful you know. </p>

[Windowlicker]

<p>Warlock chiming in here:</p><p>If you ever, ever mez mobs in one of my groups .. you will be looking for another group.  One of my biggest pet peeves in this game are over enthusiastic Enchanters that feel they need to Mez on every pull.</p><p>Your lowering DPS, and your slowing down the group.</p><p>Mezzing has it's time and place, but that time and place is not in an AE heavy group on Encounter based mobs.</p>

[Quda]

<p>I duo and group with a Illusionist all the time, and she gets frustrated when she controls an add, and a tank/off tank decides to save the day and go wake the mob up.  </p><p>We usually tell the tank in the beginging, and during the group to not worry about adds, to stick to one mob he wants to kill and that is it.  And if the group wipes, it is because of the enchanter, and not the tank.</p><p>But yes, I do agree that the enchanter class in eq2 is broke when working with others.  Some AOE's won't break mez, but others will, why is that?</p><p>As a corcerer, I just simply charm the add, to keep others from beating on it, we would pick up some extra dps to kill the mobs quicker, and then I would release it when the group was ready to handle it.</p>

[Iseabeil]

<cite>Quda wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I duo and group with a Illusionist all the time, and she gets frustrated when she controls an add, and a tank/off tank decides to save the day and go wake the mob up.  </p><p>We usually tell the tank in the beginging, and during the group to not worry about adds, to stick to one mob he wants to kill and that is it.  And if the group wipes, it is because of the enchanter, and not the tank.</p><p>But yes, I do agree that the enchanter class in eq2 is broke when working with others.  <span style="color: #ff0000">Some AOE's won't break mez, but others will, why is that?</span></p><p>As a corcerer, I just simply charm the add, to keep others from beating on it, we would pick up some extra dps to kill the mobs quicker, and then I would release it when the group was ready to handle it.</p></blockquote> No AE's will break mez unless the person AE'ing is targeting a mezzed mob, and then it will only wake that one. What usually may look as AE breaking mez is AE DoTs applied before the mez, as soon as it ticks, mez goes bye bye.

[NiteWolfe]

 Personaly i really rather not group with a mezzer. Most of them feel the need to mezz every single pull. theres a lot each mezzing class can bring to a group with out mezzing. But when they feel the need to constantly mezz if just greatly limits a groups dps. Now give me a illy that can keep there finger off the mez and iam a happy swashy.

[SisterTheresa]

<p>Well, though I am not an Enchanter myself, I can only give a suggestion of making a macro announcing what you are mezzing.  Make sure the DO NOT ATTACK is in capital letters.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I also really haven't played much with Enchanters, but when I did, the few had macros for mezzing only when necessary.  They normally attacked by assisting the MT.</p><p>But I can see how annoying it can get.</p>

[Azzikai]

<p>Having Enchanter experience from EQ I know what it is like to get a mob mezzed only to have that mez broken. It gets frustrating but, more often than not, it isn't any one persons fault.</p><p>I am now playing a Warlock and I make sure to send a tell to the mezzer asking them if they are going to try and mezz any encounter targets. I like to get that little bit of info as soon as possible so I know whether or not I get to have my AE fun or if I'm going to be grouped with a micro-manager who doesn't realize how much dps we lose by sticking to single target stuff only. Either way, I've made sure to communicate ahead of time so there are no misunderstandings later. </p><p>The biggest problem I've run into, so far, is that people don't use /assist. Instead, many just target the tank and go from there. That is great but tanks sometimes switch targets to taunt which means some of the dps switches as well. In a group where there is a lot going on (many adds) I've found that the mezzer will usually just pick whatever mob the tank doesn't have targeted at that particular second and mez it. That sounds all well and good except when that mob happens to be the initial target that a person or two are still actually trying to kill. Things get awoken, angry words get said but, in the end, it wasn't really the fault of anyone in particular just a lack of communication.</p><p>I suppose what you expect as a player with regards to mezzing and group dynamics in general depends on the games you are used to. When I'm doing content that isn't that hard it doesn't really matter but when stuff is yellow to the bulk of the group I'm still expecting "assist" calls from a tank, "mezzed" messages from the mezzer and for people to not just keep the tank targeted and go from there. </p><p>Maybe I'm weird but I think the whole implied targeting thing causes more problems than anything else. It has its uses but it often causes far too much chaos.</p>

[azekah]

I hate those mezzers who feel they need to mezz on EVERY pull...as though if they weren't there the group would wipe at every encounter. If any of you enchaters who do that are reading this (though it is unlikely because you've probably never even tried learning anything about your class) PLEASE STOP. You make us all look bad and give us a bad rep! The problem is, there are so few chanters out there that people group without them the majority of the time. So they get strageties down to tackle adds and such as trying to offtank them or going all out with aoe attacks. Then, when they get an enchanter in the group and adds start coming in, out of instinct from all the hours of playing without you they do those things which make CC impossible... Start rolling more chanters and reach out to the community!!! No experience = no understanding = useless class...well mezz useless On the lighter side, my coercer has dps mod/power regen/great spells like stifles!!! and not to mention if you can't use mezz, you can always coerce it!!!

[redde]

<cite>FaeDesi wrote:</cite><blockquote>70 coercer here.. Enchanters should never, ever, ever, ever, ever mez encountered mobs.  Your mez should ONLY be used for adds.  Period.  The only exceptions are some named mobs and if your tank really sucks at holding aggro. </blockquote> This assumes a lot. It <b>strongly</b> depends on the group that you have. Granted if you have a fabled out tank and a mastered up healer it's going to slow you down if you mez encounters, particularly if your group is largely AE based. But if you healer and tank can't handle a group of 4 or 5 yellow heroics in CMM, then it's not a crime to help them out by mezzing some adds. It makes things slower and easier. If its already manageable, then don't slow it down. <i> [And for the few who don't know - <b>mez prevents AoE </b>spells hitting the mezzed mob, unless you've got that mob targetted. <b>AoEs will never break your mezzes unless it is a DoT AoE that was cast BEFORE the mez landed OR the player breaking the mez has the wrong mob targetted.</b>]</i>

[Iagan the Swart]

<cite>redders wrote:</cite><blockquote> <i>[And for the few who don't know - <b>mez prevents AoE </b>spells hitting the mezzed mob, unless you've got that mob targetted. <b>AoEs will never break your mezzes unless it is a DoT AoE that was cast BEFORE the mez landed OR the player breaking the mez has the wrong mob targetted.</b>]</i> </blockquote> This is good to know.  I rarely play with an enchanter, and am always unsure as to what spells I can cast in those situations.

[liveja]

<cite>FaeDesi wrote:</cite><blockquote>70 coercer here.. Enchanters should never, ever, ever, ever, ever mez encountered mobs.  Your mez should ONLY be used for adds.  Period.  The only exceptions are some named mobs and if your tank really sucks at holding aggro. </blockquote>QFE.

[Bawang]

<cite>redders wrote:</cite><blockquote><i> <b>mez prevents AoE </b>spells hitting the mezzed mob</i></blockquote><p>That's precisely the problem though.  Classes that have AoEs WANT them to hit all mobs around.  In EQ1, AoE capabilities were given out sparingly to classes.  In EQ2, SOE went crazy giving out AoE spells and CAs to just about every other class, thus making it impossible for mezz to work in most situations.  That's why most people HATE mezz and see it as something that gets in the way of their playing style.</p><p>For those who argue that mezz is not essential to the enchanter class, I'd say I don't know what realm of reality you're living in.  An enchanter is all about crowd control, and mezz is their primary tool.  Enchanters are not DPS, healing, or tanking, which only leaves crowd control as their raison d'etre.</p><p>I'm still waiting for the game where we can have a REAL crowd control class as it's my favorite play style.  EQ2, due to either SOE's incompetence or deviousness, just ain't it.</p>

[Trepan]

I play a coercer.  I understand that Mezzing will drop AoE damage and normally don't bother with linked groups.  I fire off a group stun at the start of the encounter- gives the healers a chance to get their feet under 'em and get the reactives a chance to land and the HoTs to catch up a bit.  If the tank's health continues to fall throughout the fight and drops below 50% again and nothing has dropped, I'll throw a group mez.   Kick me out of your group if you want at that point, Zahne, but make sure to explain to the group why. Adds I mez.  Once.  Someone wake's 'em up, too bad.   The group wipes?  No problem.  I'm used to dying.  I already have a picture of the Mender's kids framed in my apartment.   If the primary encounter is still going, I'll remezz the adds when it wears off - but not if it breaks. I'm there to help the group.  If the group doesn't want help, no worries.  I can go find another group to help.

[Wrapye]

I have a 70 guard and a 70 coercer, the latter being my main but I've picked up playing the guard again.  When grouped with an enchanter, my assumption is that any adds will be mezzed and I don't have to worry about them.  If it looks like they aren't, then I will act and attack/taunt the adds to make sure they stay off others. Playing more than one class gives you insight into how to play with other classes..

[Noaani]

<cite>redders wrote:</cite><blockquote><i><b>AoEs will never break your mezzes unless it is a DoT AoE that was cast BEFORE the mez landed OR the player breaking the mez has the wrong mob targetted.</b>]</i> </blockquote><p>This is the reason I have said many times that both chanter classes need a short duration, single target mez with a cure/dispel all attatched to it. If an enchanter can remove all DoTs from a mob and mez it at the same time, it would go some way to giving chanters other mez spells a bit more of a use.</p><p>A good chanter would know when/how to use it, a bad one will macro it before every mez they cast. </p>

[Kaalenarc]

<p><span style="color: #ffff00">I think the OP needs to realize something about tanks. We arent mind readers. You state that  you're in the process of casting a mez while a mob is on you - attacking you. He comes over and takes the mob off of you. Great. Job well done. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00"> Here's the thing.  Tanks dont know what spell you are casting Or for that matter what target u are casting it on. We watch who is getting hit and then thats the next mob we taunt  - assuming we can find it. The tank has no way of knowing if you're being hit by one, two , or more mobs until he targets one and gets it off you. Once thats done he has to see if u are still being hit, if so - he taunts that - and checks again.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">Mezzers have their place in combat and in some zones - I wouldnt want to enter into them without one. However, you cannot expect everyone to adapt to one class. Use a voice server, or set teh ground rules BEFORE the fight starts and you will have fewer issues. And if a tank pulls a mob off you, the correct response is.. thank you.</span></p>

[Zard]

<p>Here is a tip for enchanters grouping with members that persist on using their Blue AE DoT spells/CA's (warlocks, shadowknights, others?) when crowd control might be necessary to avoid a wipe;  Castle Mistmore comes to mind. . .</p><p>If your mez insta-breaks due to a pre-existing DoT on the target try following up with a <b>stun</b> which is not affected by the DoT. When the stun is about to expire try re-mezzing as the DoT may have expired as well. Ideally, the originally caster will have cancelled their DoT so the 2nd mez will stick but I would not count on it; they might not even know they <i>can</i> cancel it.  <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Zard]

<p>Something I always announce when joining a group, "Please do NOT try to save me if something is attacking me. If I can't handle it, let me die."</p><p>And, if grouping with young tanks, "Please taunt before breaking mez"</p>

[azekah]

I wrote: You should never mezz the encounter when first pulled, UNLESS it is going to be a very tough pull, or you know from past pulls that the healer is having trouble keeping the tank alive. If you ecounter mezz every time, you are just slowing down the kill rate and offering nothing positive. All that does is aggravate everyone in the group! DO NOT mezz unless it is necessary.... (edited to remove bad quote)

[Jesdyr]

Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffff00">set teh ground rules BEFORE the fight starts and you will have fewer issues. </span></p></blockquote> I normally let the group know exactly what I am planning on doing "for most fights" and then also let them know what I will do when "something goes wrong" Normal mode - No mez. I use stuns and roots. I tell the casters that if they get aggro I will use a stun followed by a root if they still have aggro after the stun goes away (meaning, slowly move away from the mob <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ).  I also let the tank know I will root if they get low on HP (so they can step back a little so the healers can get their HP back up. "something wrong" - I will use mez. if the mez is broken I will stun and root  like above. I also do not use a pet for most groups with more than 2 other people in it. Having a charmed pet while grouped with people who are not use to being with a coercer that is using a pet can often cause more problems than it does good.

[Jesdyr]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trepan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I play a coercer.  I understand that Mezzing will drop AoE damage and normally don't bother with linked groups.  I fire off a group stun at the start of the encounter- gives the healers a chance to get their feet under 'em and get the reactives a chance to land and the HoTs to catch up a bit.  If the tank's health continues to fall throughout the fight and drops below 50% again and nothing has dropped, I'll throw a group mez.   Kick me out of your group if you want at that point, Zahne, but make sure to explain to the group why </blockquote>This is PRECISELY what a bad coercer does. You should never mezz the encounter when first pulled, UNLESS it is going to be a very tough pull, or you know from past pulls that the healer is having trouble keeping the tank alive. If you ecounter mezz every time, you are just slowing down the kill rate and offering nothing positive. All that does is aggravate everyone in the group! DO NOT mezz unless it is necessary.... Sheesh... </blockquote> read his post again .. he said open with a stun .. not a mez ... they are not the same thing and an opening stun can help greatly.

[azekah]

<cite>JesDer wrote:</cite><blockquote>read his post again .. he said open with a stun .. not a mez ... they are not the same thing and an opening stun can help greatly. </blockquote>woops... <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Mistletoes]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trepan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I play a coercer.  I understand that Mezzing will drop AoE damage and normally don't bother with linked groups.  I fire off a group stun at the start of the encounter- gives the healers a chance to get their feet under 'em and get the reactives a chance to land and the HoTs to catch up a bit.  If the tank's health continues to fall throughout the fight and drops below 50% again and nothing has dropped, I'll throw a group mez.   Kick me out of your group if you want at that point, Zahne, but make sure to explain to the group why </blockquote>This is PRECISELY what a bad coercer does. You should never mezz the encounter when first pulled, UNLESS it is going to be a very tough pull, or you know from past pulls that the healer is having trouble keeping the tank alive. If you ecounter mezz every time, you are just slowing down the kill rate and offering nothing positive. All that does is aggravate everyone in the group! DO NOT mezz unless it is necessary.... Sheesh... </blockquote><p> Huh? Did you quote the right message?</p><p>Trepan says he drops a stun instead of a mez, and only mezzes if the healers aren't keeping the tank up, and the mobs aren't falling. Granted, I will usually lay out a range of other options before resorting to mez (except for adds in a case described like this), but I wouldn't call someone a bad coercer for testing the water and making a judgment call when it looks like the tank is going to go down. That seems more like a good coercer to me.</p><p>The bad coercer to me would be the one that AE mez'd on inc, or mez'd everything that added right away, without testing the waters first. In most pickup groups I join, I will sometimes let group members die in the beginning, just to see what kind of group I've got. If I can see that adds are going to be a problem, I may resort to mez. I will generally let the group know why I'm doing it though, and it will be after someone dies, or nearly dies.</p>

[Mistletoes]

Bah, I type too slowly.

[azekah]

<cite>Mistletoes wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bah, I type too slowly.</blockquote>lol...you type too slow...I type too fast... and I can't spell...that's why you usually see the edited message on all my posts : )

[Trepan]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Trepan wrote: You should never mezz the encounter when first pulled, UNLESS it is going to be a very tough pull, or you know from past pulls that the healer is having trouble keeping the tank alive. If you ecounter mezz every time, you are just slowing down the kill rate and offering nothing positive. All that does is aggravate everyone in the group! DO NOT mezz unless it is necessary.... (edited to remove bad quote) </blockquote> Whew, I thought I was losing my mind there for a bit - but I still didn't write that  lol  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[azekah]

<cite>Trepan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whew, I thought I was losing my mind there for a bit - but I still didn't write that  lol  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>haha...woops again... fixed it...

[Fasci]

New coercer here (low 30's). I've been soloing mostly so far, but I'm starting to do more groups with guildies. When soloing, I usually open with a group mez. (I'd been doing it in groups at times, too; I hadn't realized it actually blocked ae's. My bad! Thanks for the tip!) Playing in groups is different. What I'm reading here mostly is: "Know your group" and "Know the encounter" and "Communicate". Part of the challenge of this class (and the reason I enjoy playing it so much) is that you actually have to pay attention! <i>(Not to say that other classes <b>don't</b> have to pay attention, LOL; just that they seem to have a greater margin for error.)</i> If I expect to have any sort of control over the mob, I need to know how my tank is planning to taunt, and how the other classes in the group are planning to burn down the mob. Seems to me it's no good trying to force four or five other players to play the way that I would solo. Instead, I should be able to be flexible and adapt to the given situation. This class has enough variety (root, stun, stifle, daze, mezz) to be very flexible, if played skillfully. And that's the fun of it! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jesdyr]

Fasci@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote> Playing in groups is different. .... skip to the end .... This class has enough variety (root, stun, stifle, daze, mezz) to be very flexible, if played skillfully. And that's the fun of it! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>  Realizing that is the key to becoming a great coercer.  The truth is that we dont need to group for much aside from raiding (shock). However grouping is much more fun that soloing and we do add a great deal to any group. However, depending on the size and type of a group, our playstyle can change greatly here as well. It is this versatility that makes me love the class.  We can make an ok group a great one .. but we can also turn a great group into a good group if we overuse mez <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cathars]

To take it one step further ... roots.  CC is the responsibility of *anyone* with a tool for it, including all mages and druids with roots.  Parties not only are not used to a mezzer handling adds, but someone else rooting adds.  Without fail, every time, either the tank will come over and break the root even if a mob is standing there hurting no one, or one of the dps will stay next to the mob instead of moving 5 feet away.

[tracheaspider]

Auric@Oasis wrote: <blockquote><p>(snip) Castle Mistmore comes to mind. . .</p><p>If your mez insta-breaks due to a pre-existing DoT on the target try following up with a <b>stun</b> which is not affected by the DoT. (snip)</p></blockquote><p> Now, if only half the vampires in CMM, trash included, weren't <i>outright immune to stuns</i>, that might work out a little bit better.  The rest just resist it instead.  (Yeh, my subj sucks, but damned if I'm speccing down wis just to CC in one zone.)</p><p>I will mez on pull in CMM when I have to in order to keep spike damage from splatting the tank.  I don't necessarily expect the mez to stay up long (depends on the tank/healer/dps situation) or hit more than 2/5 mobs, but it's very useful and much more reliable than stuns in that zone.  It also works on most raid mobs and to better effect since it wears off faster.  (Yeh, it's a casual guild so I CC a bunch on raids where others wouldn't.)</p>

[Erithorn]

<p>* wipes his brow *</p><p> Whew !  Fortunately I will NEVER be in one of your groups....</p><p> Mid level Coercer here, and yes... mezzing in groups is for crowd control usually.  Though in most groups, there are usually some "A" types that are hell bent on maximum experience over time.  Heck, if that is their fun, more power to 'em I say.  But some groups are well matched and those running them are into using all the abilities at the disposal of that particular group.  These groups do VERY well,, and usually have an enjoyable time together to boot.</p><p>Just my opinion of course...</p><p>*  winks *</p><p>Edjodeth </p>

[chily]

Get your level 62 mastercrafted armor do oob and cov and say that these zones are not hard and don't need to mezz Or find a level 66 mentor him and then do it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Many ppl are fabeled or legendary equpiped from raid's who gives you the right to exepct that from everyone?

[Ijiamee]

<p>Communication.</p><p>Tell your group you will be mezz'n the adds. If you don't, then there may be a chance one will attempt to off-tank them. And, likewise, the rest of the group should let the CCer know if they prefer to off-tank the adds.</p><p>Communication.</p>