I love the Templas Class - so why does SOE make us pay such a heavy price?

[Rothgur]

<p>Hi Guys</p><p>This is my first post on this board, Ive got a lv 31 templar, I love the class to bits, the spells, the armour, basically the general ethos around the class and what it stands for.</p><p>I've read in detail many of the posts/replies in this forum so I'm up to speed on the general chat/issues/ideas that players have.  But here's is the thing:</p><p>Does anyone know if the issues around the woeful soloing ability are under review by the devs?</p><p> I wont regurgitate the already clearly expressed feedback from many players about the terrible soloing ability which is so much hassle/time needed that it is definetly not 'fun'  I think I have actually lost all commmon sense, I cant stand the soloing ability - its a disgrace but yet I log on and contine to play cos there is enough of the class that when I'm ina  group it makes me forget for that time about the soloing and suddenly the class shines again. </p><p> Although I'm only lv 31, I am a dreamer and out of shear madness believe that SOE will make some changes to improve our soloing just a bit to make it managable.  But are they?</p><p>Hope this didnt sound like a rant - its just sheer frustration coming out and who else can I turn to if not my fellow templars.</p><p>Korgin</p>

[Krymson]

I still feel that letting the templar (and inquisitor) class wield a Kite Shield or smaller would be appropriate and while not beef up any dps issues that we may think we feel from time to time, it would help with our abysmal avoidance while soloing. ...but then I think the shamen should be able to use round shields, too.

[Delaya]

I love my templar too. We have great buffs and good heals, I dont miss any DPS, because I want to play a healer and nothing else. I'll hope, that the templar wont be changed, because I like it to play a class that not anybody has! Many players I met, didn't know exactly the skills of us, and wonder about the amount of my buffs (nearly 2.500 HP at Lvl 66). Just play your way and enjoy it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bjerde]

The Templar has DPS options via AA's. It is your choice which way you would like to go. It has been expressed many times in these forums that with the correct AA choices your DPS can be fairly good. You can dps as well as any other priest class, save the Fury, with AA's. I hope they don't change anything about the Templar, they gave us variation through AA's and you really can go more DPS or more healing.

[Kendricke]

<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=178144" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">*sigh* </a>

[Rothgur]

HI Kendricke Ive read many of your posts throughout the forum, after reading the detials in your link (thx for that) the playe at lv 44 your helping..where is he putting his/her dozaen AA points. Many of your posts show build susing many points..but I dont understand where the first 12 would do to match this players prowess. I love the templar and I'm one of those players that wants to constantly improve and learn more so if you could fill in some more details of this plaerys build that would be greatly apprecaited. Korgin

[Maryk]

<p>Kendricke why the heavy sigh?  I log on here routinely to hear your wise counsel and I think you're going to say that a Templar can solo just fine.</p><p>Well I finally made 70...a slow process.  Where the Templar is usually a welcome sight in a group I still do get razzed at times for our slow heals.</p><p>As far as DPS...forget it.  I got to the point where if everything is right I might be able to defeat a triple up green.  Anything higher...forget it.  Multiple green triple ups...forget it.   I think the highest I ever took down was a yellow...no arrows.  But that was rare.  Normally you get mobbed and Templars do not do good taking on multiple mobs.</p><p>I solo 80% of the time so you just develop your own playing style...and pick your fights very carefully.</p>

[Kizee]

You should have played a templar before they gave them all the dps options.

[Kendricke]

<cite>Marykim wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Kendricke why the heavy sigh?  I log on here routinely to hear your wise counsel and I think you're going to say that a Templar can solo just fine.</p><p>Well I finally made 70...a slow process.  Where the Templar is usually a welcome sight in a group I still do get razzed at times for our slow heals.</p><p>As far as DPS...forget it.  I got to the point where if everything is right I might be able to defeat a triple up green.  Anything higher...forget it.  Multiple green triple ups...forget it.   I think the highest I ever took down was a yellow...no arrows.  But that was rare.  Normally you get mobbed and Templars do not do good taking on multiple mobs.</p><p>I solo 80% of the time so you just develop your own playing style...and pick your fights very carefully.</p></blockquote><p>The sigh was a link to a post on the subject showing how Templars who learn the class can do very, very well soloing or grouping.  </p><p>I have a Templar on Test I've built up just to prove the point.  90% of his spells are just Adept I and he only has 35 achievements.  Nothing he wears comes from raids, and in fact, I haven't played him all that much in the past year.  </p><p>The other night, I took him into Kaladim just to see how he'd do.  He DESTROYED the green ^^^ heroics and had no problems at all with many of the blue heroics.  These were non-undead.  I took him to Loping Plains and he did just fine there against groups of blue no-arrow heroics, and the blue ^^^ wisps.  </p><p>Frankly, I don't think it's a problem with the class.  </p>

[Rothgur]

Hi Kendricke Thanks for replying, I dont believe there's anything wrong with the class, I love it. But what I am trying to really get to a fine level of detail is from your(and others) high lv templars experience on what exactly you guys are choosing for those 35 AA points and how a typical fight would pan out. What would be your typical combination of spells during those fights? what would you start and end with for example. The reason I'm asking is that lots of forums sugest great things about soloing...but the real specifics sometimes I'm missing as a new templar.

[Maryk]

<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Marykim wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Kendricke why the heavy sigh?  I log on here routinely to hear your wise counsel and I think you're going to say that a Templar can solo just fine.</p><p>Well I finally made 70...a slow process.  Where the Templar is usually a welcome sight in a group I still do get razzed at times for our slow heals.</p><p>As far as DPS...forget it.  I got to the point where if everything is right I might be able to defeat a triple up green.  Anything higher...forget it.  Multiple green triple ups...forget it.   I think the highest I ever took down was a yellow...no arrows.  But that was rare.  Normally you get mobbed and Templars do not do good taking on multiple mobs.</p><p>I solo 80% of the time so you just develop your own playing style...and pick your fights very carefully.</p></blockquote><p>The sigh was a link to a post on the subject showing how Templars who learn the class can do very, very well soloing or grouping.  </p><p>I have a Templar on Test I've built up just to prove the point.  90% of his spells are just Adept I and he only has 35 achievements.  Nothing he wears comes from raids, and in fact, I haven't played him all that much in the past year.  </p><p>The other night, I took him into Kaladim just to see how he'd do.  He DESTROYED the green ^^^ heroics and had no problems at all with many of the blue heroics.  These were non-undead.  I took him to Loping Plains and he did just fine there against groups of blue no-arrow heroics, and the blue ^^^ wisps.  </p><p>Frankly, I don't think it's a problem with the class.  </p></blockquote><p>You know I totally missed your link...I'll go back and read it.  I  really would like to become better at soloing as you suggest.  I remember back a ways...you recommended a Blackscale Maul (and some other things)...well...I just picked up the Maul so I'm anxious to try it out and see how it feels.  What adornment would you recommend?  I've been looking at them all...and just can't decide.  My WIS is over 500...INT and STA are very high.  Just not sure.</p><p>...and to the OP...don't get me wrong...I am not complaining.  I love playing this class...nothing makes my day more than someone inviting me to group...and then at the end complementing me on my healing...keeping the tank alive.   For AA...I personally went down the blessings line and the cures line.</p>

[StevusX]

<p>okies - now firstly i will say that i still love playing my templar -  i log in pretty much every day.</p><p>BUT in a game where dps really is so important (ie killing mobs) why should healer dps be so low ?</p><p>Why should healers have to sacrifice healing specs just to get a rise in their dps to make it less painful ?</p><p>How many scout/fighter/mage classes have to spec for heals to solo well ?  none probably - they all spec for MORE dps or whatever their prime characteristic is of course.</p><p>so, despite the improvements soe have already made i still believe our BASIC dps needs increasing - like other classes specing for dps should be the icing on the cake.  </p><p>We are not alone in this of course, most healing classes are in the same situation, except probably for furies i guess.</p><p>An increase in basic dps by increasing our "nuke" spells, faster casting, maybe another aoe to go with our pretty sad one we have would NOT overpower us - our prime role in groups and raids will always be to heal and cure, increasing our dps will not alter that one jot.</p><p>What it WILL do is make soloing less painful and feeling less useless in many groups where you barely need to heal.</p>

[Kendricke]

Grimheart@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote><p>okies - now firstly i will say that i still love playing my templar -  i log in pretty much every day.</p><p>BUT in a game where dps really is so important (ie killing mobs) why should healer dps be so low ?</p></blockquote><p>For one thing, we're pretty hard to kill.  Healing is really the most powerful concept in the game.  Damage dealing certainly helps, but if you can't keep the tank (or yourself) standing, then DPS simply doesn't matter.  Another way of putting it: you could have the best Quarterback in the league, but if there's no defensive line keeping him standing, you'll simply end up with a flattened quarterback every time.  </p><p>On a different note, I'm curious what your own DPS is that you claim it's low.  </p>

[StevusX]

<p>Ken i wasnt disputing that in a team as a healer we are great.</p><p>BUT for other times when we are NOT part of a team - or part of a team with 2 healers etc where heals are barely needed.. then we have a problem, particularly when soloing.   Yes we can solo, but like most healers its too slow.   Just because we are healers doesnt mean our dps should suffer quite so much imo. </p><p>There are plenty of other classes that can self heal while soloing - pallys, necros etc -  and yet they have much better dps - why do they need heals then ?  for the same reason that WE need dps..........</p><p>Now i am not talking huge shakeups here - compared to say LU13 (urgh) our class has come a long way and i thank soe for that.</p><p>But i do believe that in a combat / dps centric game like this that the range of dps from the lowest to the highest should be a little narrower.</p><p>How many templars have completed the tower quest in Fallen Dynasty where killing mobs fast is essential ? none ?</p><p>What quests do healers have that other classes CANT do ?   none ?</p><p>so a few more improvements to templar dps is all i ask - and for that matter any other healer classes that need it as well.</p><p>It will not overpower any of us.</p><p> FYI - i also play a Necro, an SK, a ranger and a new Dirge so i have some experience of how other classes work and what they are capable of...</p><p>FYI - most of my spells are Masters and i have a decent mix of gear, some fabled, some class armour etc. </p>

[Kendricke]

Grimheart@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote><p>Ken i wasnt disputing that in a team as a healer we are great.</p><p>BUT for other times when we are NOT part of a team - or part of a team with 2 healers etc where heals are barely needed.. then we have a problem, particularly when soloing.   Yes we can solo, but like most healers its too slow.   Just because we are healers doesnt mean our dps should suffer quite so much imo. </p></blockquote><p>You keep saying it's too slow to solo.  I solo groups of 68 heroics in no time flat.  I solo named in Mistmoore Catacombs and Kaladim.  When I'm really trying, I'm kicking anywhere from 1,000 to 1,200 DPS.  Even when I'm lazy, I'm still putting out 800+ DPS without really trying.  Bottom line, the Templar class you keep complaining about sounds nothing like the Templar class I play every night.  </p><p>You want to talk about slow soloing?  Go start up a Troubadour, Dirge, Illusionist (the ones that don't understand or care about DPS achievements), Mystics, Defilers, Guardians, Berserkers (the ones not specced for DPS), or more.  </p><p>Seriously, there's a ton of options available to you as a soloing Templar that can dramatically increase your soloability.  Templars are NOT hurting for ways to increase damage.  </p>

[Maryk]

<p>Picked up a new quest line...Liberating the Cavaliers...looks like an interesting quest that starts in the Commonlands...and currently has me in New Tunaria.</p><p>New Tunaria is filled with triple ups...mostly gray but some still green to me at level 70.  So I got me a new Blackscale Maul...and to make a long story short...got completely owned by a level 60 triple up.   Three times.</p><p>I'm not complaining about lack of a Templar's DPS necessarily.  But I hit spots in quest lines where I just cannot go any further and that makes this whole wimpy Templar thing pretty frustrating.   The fights generally go for a long time...I get them down to about 20-25% and then just run out of power...and I'm toast.</p><p>  </p>

[Tof]

I'm a level 31 Templar - and I just picked up the game after about a 2 year hiatus. My AA's so far have been spent in the INT line and I've just started the STA line.  I haven't spent any points on DPS, and while I admit to having a problem in my teens with soloing, maybe I've just gotten better or maybe things get better as you level up - but I have no issues whatsoever soloing at my level now.  Aside from a few major fights, I've completed three heritage quests from my early 20's on, numerous quests, I can handle heroic even cons with ease and handle groups of 2-3 ^^^ blues just fine. Sure, I solo slower than my friend, a fury at the same level, does - but the trade-off to me of what I can do in a group is worth it.

[Giallolas]

<p>On this one, I'm going to have to agree with everyone that says the Templar class is fine.  I've played a Templar for a very long time now.  I remember when we truly did suffer from DPS issues.  It is so much better now.  So much.  Sure, we'll never be Assassin or Swashie dps, but we really weren't meant to be nor did I make this class to be.  We seem to be right in the middle on dps rather than scraping the bottom which is where we were a year ago.</p><p>I do not see a whole lot of problems soloing.  I was bored outside FTH just this week before any of my guildees arrived.  There was the 68 named ^^^ dude, C something or other just outside the doors.  Being bored and figuring I could mend back in town before raid started, I decided to take it on.  I smashed it and had it dead in less than 2 minutes.  Oh wait, I am also a top healing class.  My point is that I am very happy with where we're at right now.  There are too many other classes out there that I can out dps and still keep myself standing in a good fight.</p>