Promised Balanceing....

[Bakasen]

<p>Back in the nearly forgetten times of the EoF beta, people were kicking up their heels and getting quite upset over the Fae Racial ablity set, saying it was beyond broken, and completely negated the promise of the begining of EQ2 that stated Races would never play that large a part in your characters power.</p><p> Suddenly onto the scene comes the Fae.. A race that was acknowleged by the Dev staff as being overpowered in compairison to the other races. At this time, they said they were doing a race revamp that would make all races more powerful and add a bit more meaning than the ablity to summon Near Beer. Needless to say this has not happened. I still have the same more or less meaningless choices for racial ablititys I had when the game came out.</p><p>GU 35 brings us the Arasai. Their racial options are even nicer than the Fae's. That being said I would dearly love to see that balace that we were told would happen oh so long ago to quite the grumbleing masses. I know it's not a compitition, but it does feel kind of like we are being penalized for haveing high level characters that we don't want to abandon in favor of these new and 'improved' races.</p><p> That being said, I love Neriak, I love DarkLight Woods. This is what a newbie zone should look like. I love EoF, not so fond of the boat rides, but love EoF. I'm not going to threaten to discontinue my account or fold up my guild or throw any other kind of tantrum over this issue. I would just like to see it addressed.</p><p> Thank you for looking into this. Here's hopeing Half-elves will be as cool as little winged balls of fluff by the time RoK comes out.</p>

[StormCinder]

<p>Changing traits, be it class or race based, in the name of "balancing" is wrong.  Races and classes should not be balanced.  Races and classes should be different.  They should each bring different skills to the table.  And some should be easier than others to play.  </p><p>SC</p>

[Bakasen]

<p>I never said that they should all be the same. Sameness is boreing, I agree that an Iksar should be different than a Dark Elf, and a Brigand should be different than a Guardian. On the other hand no race/class should be flat out better. When makeing up your group you look at the classes in the game and it should be a matter of pondering tradeoffs since every class brings something to the table and none are so weak that you don't want them.</p><p>The same logic should apply when makeing your character, each Race should bring something new to the table. As it stands now there are clear choices about what is better. A fae is better than a dwarf, An Arasai is better than Dark Elf. This should not be the case. Each race should bring something to the table, tradeing off different ablitys that make each stand out. Thats balance, when all choices have to be considered rather than simply knowing newer is better.</p>

[StormCinder]

<p>While you claim to not want "sameness" you are looking for mediocrity.  You want the races/classes to be different...but not too different.  You want them all in the center of the bell curve.  Nothing at the extreme ends of the spectrum.  Perhaps there should be a class or race that just brings nothing to a group or raid that isn't covered by another, more powerful race/class.  </p><p>But think of the sense of accomplishment some of the more die-hard players will feel leveling that toon.  Finding ways to make that toon useful.  Most MMOs end up being played much differently than intended in original game design documents.  Believe it or not, there are some players that prefer not to group or play with other players.  How better to feed that anti-grouping mentality than creating an "outside" class/race that nobody wants to play?  Or that few people play?  </p><p>I remember back to "barbarians" back in my D&D days.  These were a class of characters that shunned magic.  No magical enhancements at all on weapons or armor.  No spells.  Pure melee.  How popular would said class be in EQ2?  Not very.  But imagine sitting in QH and seeing a lvl70 toon walk by that got to where it is with those prohibitions.  It would be quite impressive and rightly so.  Instead we see degradization of the game through normalization in the name of "balancing." </p><p>But instead, players prefer the same "beige" races and classes that every other game has.  </p><p>SC</p>

[Josgar]

As long as High Elves get something allowing us to be MORE arrogant <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[tass]

eh to me the only thing a fay can do is glide and drop off a mountain. Of course while the reg classes had looks going for them compared to those freakish fays, the new evil fays are awesome with a better noob zone and city that connects to both the cl's and nek.

[Norrsken]

<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>eh to me the only thing a fay can do is glide and drop off a mountain. Of course while the reg classes had looks going for them compared to those freakish fays, the new evil fays are awesome with a better noob zone and city that connects to both the cl's and nek. </blockquote>And a 5% incombat runspeed buff, which, unless you are on a pvp server aint much.

[Polywogus]

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>As long as High Elves get something allowing us to be MORE arrogant <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Dark Elves get the claim on cranky!  Or other words that will get the mean ol' bracketed [no one can see this dirty word!]

[Raveller]

The OP has a very valid point. They completely borked up races in this game. There really isn't enough difference between the races other than the way they're rendered on screen. SOE should deliver on the promise to give us racial traits that are worth something. This does not require a complete redesign of the races, and the new traits do not have to be something earth shattering. Fairy parachute, Glide, and 5% runspeed boost might not be game breakers, but they're a hell of a lot better than anything most of the other races get. I would play a Fae or a Recolored Fae if only I could pluck their [Removed for Content]' wings off (or at least hide them like helmets and illusions).

[Naubeta]

<cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>While you claim to not want "sameness" you are looking for mediocrity.  You want the races/classes to be different...but not too different.  You want them all in the center of the bell curve.  Nothing at the extreme ends of the spectrum.  Perhaps there should be a class or race that just brings nothing to a group or raid that isn't covered by another, more powerful race/class.  </p><p>But think of the sense of accomplishment some of the more die-hard players will feel leveling that toon.  Finding ways to make that toon useful.  Most MMOs end up being played much differently than intended in original game design documents.  Believe it or not, there are some players that prefer not to group or play with other players.  How better to feed that anti-grouping mentality than creating an "outside" class/race that nobody wants to play?  Or that few people play?  </p><p>I remember back to "barbarians" back in my D&D days.  These were a class of characters that shunned magic.  No magical enhancements at all on weapons or armor.  No spells.  Pure melee.  How popular would said class be in EQ2?  Not very.  But imagine sitting in QH and seeing a lvl70 toon walk by that got to where it is with those prohibitions.  It would be quite impressive and rightly so.  Instead we see degradization of the game through normalization in the name of "balancing." </p><p>But instead, players prefer the same "beige" races and classes that every other game has.  </p><p>SC</p></blockquote> DnD is a role playing game. You have weaker and stronger characters. You play them for thier role not their uberness. Eventually they die (permanently)... it's even the mark of a good campaign that this happens. MMORPGs are different. Everyone starts out with the expectation that their character will be just as powerful (in it's own way) as any other.

[Kaalenarc]

<cite>Bakasen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Back in the nearly forgetten times of the EoF beta, people were kicking up their heels and getting quite upset over the Fae Racial ablity set, saying it was beyond broken, and completely negated the promise of the begining of EQ2 that stated Races would never play that large a part in your characters power.</p><p> Suddenly onto the scene comes the Fae..<span style="color: #ff0000"> A race that was acknowleged by the Dev staff as being overpowered in compairison to the other races</span>. At this time, <span style="color: #ff0000">they said they were doing a race revamp that would make all races more powerful and add a bit more meaning than the ablity to summon Near Beer</span>. Needless to say this has not happened. I still have the same more or less meaningless choices for racial ablititys I had when the game came out.</p><p>GU 35 brings us the Arasai. Their racial options are even nicer than the Fae's. That being said I would dearly love to see that balace that we were told would happen oh so long ago to quite the grumbleing masses. I know it's not a compitition, but it does feel kind of like we are being penalized for haveing high level characters that we don't want to abandon in favor of these new and 'improved' races.</p><p> That being said, I love Neriak, I love DarkLight Woods. This is what a newbie zone should look like. I love EoF, not so fond of the boat rides, but love EoF. I'm not going to threaten to discontinue my account or fold up my guild or throw any other kind of tantrum over this issue. I would just like to see it addressed.</p><p> Thank you for looking into this. Here's hopeing Half-elves will be as cool as little winged balls of fluff by the time RoK comes out.</p></blockquote>Could you provide info as to where and when the DEVs said this?

[Drewx]

<p>Stuff like this scares me...mainly because I fear they will bring forth the second coming of the Vana'diel plague.</p><p>Vana'diel plague is one of the HUGE problems with FFXI. Pretty much...it restricts you the player to play a SPECIFIC race in order to play SPECIFIC jobs even though you can be whatever you want. If you are not the race & job combo that is the norm/accepted/everyone says you should be than you will never get a group, and you will forever be frowned upon.</p><p>Now when EoF came out...yeah Fae are pretty overpowered racial trait wise, yes only on PvP servers are racial traits truely game breaking. However...dispite the wings that push some people from Fae/Arasai(Thy are same race so I will just call them Fae for the sake of length) the Fae are just extremely convient and downright easy to play. Obviously there are gamers who want ot be the best of the best, I bet if you told them about all the races and their powers, and asked what they'd be...it'd be a Fae _________. I do remember SOE saying racial balancing is coming, but I honestly do not remember where, I don't read the forums that much. I'm all for racial balancing, not because it nerfs the overpowered Fae or anything, but because it'll make each race SIGNIFICANTLY different. Some people have said in this thread that "you want sameness" or for everything to be the same is mediocre...well um...have youhonestly looked at our current none EoF races? Seriously...THEY ALL ARE THE SAME. Aside from little fluff racials, and some very very very mior stat changes all the non-fairy races move the same, fight the same, have the same skeletal structure for the most part, and have racials that barely divide them. Which brings up the question? What TRUELY made Fae so much fun to play? Maybe it was the fact they are so much different than the other races? They move differently, they fight differently(kinda pathedically IMO), they can jump high and float/glide across great distances with so much ease, you could go places you could never go with another race. That is why Fae multiplied like rabbits and seemed to pour out of every nook and cranny of Norrath. PvP or PvE...the glide trait are what changed alot gameplay wise, the 5% in-combat move speed only effects PvP combat truely...</p><p>So unique racials are definately the way to go. It'd make every race much more unique and it'd not only make people put some thought into their race selection, but also make playing a new race & class combo much more refreshing and new. /ranton</p><p>Can anyone on these forums give an in-depth description of the extreme gameplay difference between a lets see what is a neutral class everone can be...aha Dirge! Between a Dark Elf Dirge, High Elf Dirge, Wood Elf Dirge, Half Elf Dirge, Kerra Dirge, Froglok Dirge, and Human Dirge can anyone give in-depth feedback, descriptions, and info on the game changing differences the race makes? I doubt it. Now compare them to a Fae Dirge...class wise...no change...racial wise...oh my...</p><p>/rantoff</p><p>So yeah...unique racials for all the races is badass, as long as they stay unique and different. However...its a rough road doing that because, if one race gets something that is very very cool/useful/game changing then it will lead to a major upsurge of that race. So either they all get a major game changing triat or none do. My fear is that lets say Erudites get eh..."Warp" and it allows them to warp between um...the islands and continents...I see alot of Erudites popping up, Frogloks who can have super jump can jump to the top of a building, Kerra that can climb any surface like a [Removed for Content] kitten, vice-versa. Only races I see getting the shaft are Humans, Halflings, and Barbarians...as they are the most normal of em all. Gnomes and Dwarves being next... I just don't want the changes to make people be like: If you are a High Elf you have no business being a Berserker, there trait to absorb magic and refill their power makes them a gcaster/healer race! We need High Elves we can use! If you are a Gnome you are a caster race, don't even think of being a Ranger! If you are a Troll then you have no business being anything but a berserker! After all Trolls get beserk rage and that combined with the berserker class triples their damage!</p><p>Stuff like the above frightens me...Cause in FFXI being unique or playing what you wanted was a bad idea and a handicap, mainly because of how drastically different races were and how they took to jobs. Honestly they did all jobs just fine, but the playerbase looks at traits and etc and noticed those small lil differences were significant enough to apparently dictate what jobs you should be if your race is ___.</p><p>Well I'd say thats my 2 copper but this post is more like 10 silver... *shrugs*</p>

[AdamWest007]

<p>Remember at the beginning of the game, the Iksars said 'hey, we are reptiles!  Shouldn't we be able to swim better/faster?'.  Hardly a game-breaking request, but the answer was 'no, race shouldn't matter'.</p><p>Now FFwd to a few years later, the game is in trouble and in need of new blood.  Suddenly b/c Fae have wings, they can glide?</p><p>Which is more powerful, being able to swim faster, or never having to worry about falling to you death (an ability scouts get, btw)?</p><p>Fae Glide is a slap in the face to all of the original players still in the game.  </p>

[Twoboxer2]

<p>Hehe, all very interesting . . . but a different thought stirkes me . . .</p><p>SOE is pulling the old Detroit/Tokyo approach to sales . . . "new and improved".</p><p>Given the level imbalance weighted heavily to 70, how can SOE maintain play levels and revenue without that messy and relatively expensive innovation called "New High-Level Content"?</p><p>Answer: Implement a "better race", provoke the /drool response, and induce a repeat of existing content. The $X spent to develop (good) new content 10 to 20 is leveraged by the fact that you will then RE-PLAY 21 to 70. Plus, the double attraction to newcomers . . . giving them a "marketing" reason to join now, and some people they can actually play with!</p><p>SOE can re-balance the races later . . . "Yet Another Improvement"</p><p>How can you top that lol?</p><p>PS: Not a complaint, just the observations of a bored cynic.</p>

[tass]

lol nothing else is drawing customers. God forbid a display ever be bought and placed in a store lol. So why not try something in game to get an extra 15 bucks.

[Skua]

<cite>AdamWest007 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Remember at the beginning of the game, the Iksars said 'hey, we are reptiles!  Shouldn't we be able to swim better/faster?'.  Hardly a game-breaking request, but the answer was 'no, race shouldn't matter'.</p><p>Now FFwd to a few years later, the game is in trouble and in need of new blood.  Suddenly b/c Fae have wings, they can glide?</p><p>Which is more powerful, being able to swim faster, or never having to worry about falling to you death (an ability scouts get, btw)?</p><p>Fae Glide is a slap in the face to all of the original players still in the game.  </p></blockquote>QFE we still wating for a racial revamp and skeleton models revamp......RoK is coming ....

[Jureska]

<cite>Drewx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Stuff like this scares me...mainly because I fear they will bring forth the second coming of the Vana'diel plague.</p><p>Vana'diel plague is one of the HUGE problems with FFXI. Pretty much...it restricts you the player to play a SPECIFIC race in order to play SPECIFIC jobs even though you can be whatever you want. If you are not the race & job combo that is the norm/accepted/everyone says you should be than you will never get a group, and you will forever be frowned upon.</p><p>Now when EoF came out...yeah Fae are pretty overpowered racial trait wise, yes only on PvP servers are racial traits truely game breaking. However...dispite the wings that push some people from Fae/Arasai(Thy are same race so I will just call them Fae for the sake of length) the Fae are just extremely convient and downright easy to play. Obviously there are gamers who want ot be the best of the best, I bet if you told them about all the races and their powers, and asked what they'd be...it'd be a Fae _________. I do remember SOE saying racial balancing is coming, but I honestly do not remember where, I don't read the forums that much. I'm all for racial balancing, not because it nerfs the overpowered Fae or anything, but because it'll make each race SIGNIFICANTLY different. Some people have said in this thread that "you want sameness" or for everything to be the same is mediocre...well um...have youhonestly looked at our current none EoF races? Seriously...THEY ALL ARE THE SAME. Aside from little fluff racials, and some very very very mior stat changes all the non-fairy races move the same, fight the same, have the same skeletal structure for the most part, and have racials that barely divide them. Which brings up the question? What TRUELY made Fae so much fun to play? Maybe it was the fact they are so much different than the other races? They move differently, they fight differently(kinda pathedically IMO), they can jump high and float/glide across great distances with so much ease, you could go places you could never go with another race. That is why Fae multiplied like rabbits and seemed to pour out of every nook and cranny of Norrath. PvP or PvE...the glide trait are what changed alot gameplay wise, the 5% in-combat move speed only effects PvP combat truely...</p><p>So unique racials are definately the way to go. It'd make every race much more unique and it'd not only make people put some thought into their race selection, but also make playing a new race & class combo much more refreshing and new. /ranton</p><p>Can anyone on these forums give an in-depth description of the extreme gameplay difference between a lets see what is a neutral class everone can be...aha Dirge! Between a Dark Elf Dirge, High Elf Dirge, Wood Elf Dirge, Half Elf Dirge, Kerra Dirge, Froglok Dirge, and Human Dirge can anyone give in-depth feedback, descriptions, and info on the game changing differences the race makes? I doubt it. Now compare them to a Fae Dirge...class wise...no change...racial wise...oh my...</p><p>/rantoff</p><p>So yeah...unique racials for all the races is badass, as long as they stay unique and different. However...its a rough road doing that because, if one race gets something that is very very cool/useful/game changing then it will lead to a major upsurge of that race. So either they all get a major game changing triat or none do. My fear is that lets say Erudites get eh..."Warp" and it allows them to warp between um...the islands and continents...I see alot of Erudites popping up, Frogloks who can have super jump can jump to the top of a building, Kerra that can climb any surface like a [I cannot control my vocabulary] kitten, vice-versa. Only races I see getting the shaft are Humans, Halflings, and Barbarians...as they are the most normal of em all. Gnomes and Dwarves being next... I just don't want the changes to make people be like: If you are a High Elf you have no business being a Berserker, there trait to absorb magic and refill their power makes them a gcaster/healer race! We need High Elves we can use! If you are a Gnome you are a caster race, don't even think of being a Ranger! If you are a Troll then you have no business being anything but a berserker! After all Trolls get beserk rage and that combined with the berserker class triples their damage!</p><p>Stuff like the above frightens me...Cause in FFXI being unique or playing what you wanted was a bad idea and a handicap, mainly because of how drastically different races were and how they took to jobs. Honestly they did all jobs just fine, but the playerbase looks at traits and etc and noticed those small lil differences were significant enough to apparently dictate what jobs you should be if your race is ___.</p><p>Well I'd say thats my 2 copper but this post is more like 10 silver... *shrugs*</p></blockquote> Actually, FFXI only worked that way to an extent. My best BLM/WHM duo in a group was a couple of Galka, god they owned. <3 And my favorite Paladin was a Taru. Most MMOs work this way nowadays eh? Early game, races mean a lot, but by endgame, gear gives enough benefits as so any race can accomplish any role.

[Lilj]

Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bakasen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Back in the nearly forgetten times of the EoF beta, people were kicking up their heels and getting quite upset over the Fae Racial ablity set, saying it was beyond broken, and completely negated the promise of the begining of EQ2 that stated Races would never play that large a part in your characters power.</p><p> Suddenly onto the scene comes the Fae..<span style="color: #ff0000"> A race that was acknowleged by the Dev staff as being overpowered in compairison to the other races</span>. At this time, <span style="color: #ff0000">they said they were doing a race revamp that would make all races more powerful and add a bit more meaning than the ablity to summon Near Beer</span>. Needless to say this has not happened. I still have the same more or less meaningless choices for racial ablititys I had when the game came out.</p><p>GU 35 brings us the Arasai. Their racial options are even nicer than the Fae's. That being said I would dearly love to see that balace that we were told would happen oh so long ago to quite the grumbleing masses. I know it's not a compitition, but it does feel kind of like we are being penalized for haveing high level characters that we don't want to abandon in favor of these new and 'improved' races.</p><p> That being said, I love Neriak, I love DarkLight Woods. This is what a newbie zone should look like. I love EoF, not so fond of the boat rides, but love EoF. I'm not going to threaten to discontinue my account or fold up my guild or throw any other kind of tantrum over this issue. I would just like to see it addressed.</p><p> Thank you for looking into this. Here's hopeing Half-elves will be as cool as little winged balls of fluff by the time RoK comes out.</p></blockquote>Could you provide info as to where and when the DEVs said this? </blockquote>It has been said in a few places, but the one I could find is here: <a href="http://eq2.stratics.com/content/hoclog/hoclog9.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.stratics.com/content/hoclog/hoclog9.php</a> This chat is from December 12, 2006 What is being said is this: <span style="font-size: small; font-family: Arial,Helvetica"><span style="color: #0000a0"><b>Preston -</b></span> *dragonarmy1004* This question regards Racial Changes, will theyre be a race revamp to balance with the Fae or will the race's stay the same? <span style="color: #800000"><b>Dymus -</b></span> Yes, we are planning at looking at other races and giving them some abilities that are more geared for the race and more meaningful than what we have now. The Fae were the first race which shows a bit of the new direction we've been taking with the game and trying to look at what is unique and fun.</span>

[Drewx]

Jureska@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Drewx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Stuff like this scares me...mainly because I fear they will bring forth the second coming of the Vana'diel plague.</p><p>Vana'diel plague is one of the HUGE problems with FFXI. Pretty much...it restricts you the player to play a SPECIFIC race in order to play SPECIFIC jobs even though you can be whatever you want. If you are not the race & job combo that is the norm/accepted/everyone says you should be than you will never get a group, and you will forever be frowned upon.</p><p>Now when EoF came out...yeah Fae are pretty overpowered racial trait wise, yes only on PvP servers are racial traits truely game breaking. However...dispite the wings that push some people from Fae/Arasai(Thy are same race so I will just call them Fae for the sake of length) the Fae are just extremely convient and downright easy to play. Obviously there are gamers who want ot be the best of the best, I bet if you told them about all the races and their powers, and asked what they'd be...it'd be a Fae _________. I do remember SOE saying racial balancing is coming, but I honestly do not remember where, I don't read the forums that much. I'm all for racial balancing, not because it nerfs the overpowered Fae or anything, but because it'll make each race SIGNIFICANTLY different. Some people have said in this thread that "you want sameness" or for everything to be the same is mediocre...well um...have youhonestly looked at our current none EoF races? Seriously...THEY ALL ARE THE SAME. Aside from little fluff racials, and some very very very mior stat changes all the non-fairy races move the same, fight the same, have the same skeletal structure for the most part, and have racials that barely divide them. Which brings up the question? What TRUELY made Fae so much fun to play? Maybe it was the fact they are so much different than the other races? They move differently, they fight differently(kinda pathedically IMO), they can jump high and float/glide across great distances with so much ease, you could go places you could never go with another race. That is why Fae multiplied like rabbits and seemed to pour out of every nook and cranny of Norrath. PvP or PvE...the glide trait are what changed alot gameplay wise, the 5% in-combat move speed only effects PvP combat truely...</p><p>So unique racials are definately the way to go. It'd make every race much more unique and it'd not only make people put some thought into their race selection, but also make playing a new race & class combo much more refreshing and new. /ranton</p><p>Can anyone on these forums give an in-depth description of the extreme gameplay difference between a lets see what is a neutral class everone can be...aha Dirge! Between a Dark Elf Dirge, High Elf Dirge, Wood Elf Dirge, Half Elf Dirge, Kerra Dirge, Froglok Dirge, and Human Dirge can anyone give in-depth feedback, descriptions, and info on the game changing differences the race makes? I doubt it. Now compare them to a Fae Dirge...class wise...no change...racial wise...oh my...</p><p>/rantoff</p><p>So yeah...unique racials for all the races is badass, as long as they stay unique and different. However...its a rough road doing that because, if one race gets something that is very very cool/useful/game changing then it will lead to a major upsurge of that race. So either they all get a major game changing triat or none do. My fear is that lets say Erudites get eh..."Warp" and it allows them to warp between um...the islands and continents...I see alot of Erudites popping up, Frogloks who can have super jump can jump to the top of a building, Kerra that can climb any surface like a [I cannot control my vocabulary] kitten, vice-versa. Only races I see getting the shaft are Humans, Halflings, and Barbarians...as they are the most normal of em all. Gnomes and Dwarves being next... I just don't want the changes to make people be like: If you are a High Elf you have no business being a Berserker, there trait to absorb magic and refill their power makes them a gcaster/healer race! We need High Elves we can use! If you are a Gnome you are a caster race, don't even think of being a Ranger! If you are a Troll then you have no business being anything but a berserker! After all Trolls get beserk rage and that combined with the berserker class triples their damage!</p><p>Stuff like the above frightens me...Cause in FFXI being unique or playing what you wanted was a bad idea and a handicap, mainly because of how drastically different races were and how they took to jobs. Honestly they did all jobs just fine, but the playerbase looks at traits and etc and noticed those small lil differences were significant enough to apparently dictate what jobs you should be if your race is ___.</p><p>Well I'd say thats my 2 copper but this post is more like 10 silver... *shrugs*</p></blockquote> Actually, FFXI only worked that way to an extent. My best BLM/WHM duo in a group was a couple of Galka, god they owned. <3 And my favorite Paladin was a Taru. Most MMOs work this way nowadays eh? Early game, races mean a lot, but by endgame, gear gives enough benefits as so any race can accomplish any role. </blockquote> You got lucky as a galka lol.  However you were a blm/whm if that had been a blm/rdm you'd never have made it. Race ment alot period in FFXI unless you had top of the line gear. I was frowned upon because I was a Elvaan DRG/WAR without "Sniper Rings"

[Skua]

actually the best blm subjob is RDM , why? fast cast trait , + bonus traits , + dispel + gravity whm is the best subjob in partys when your party has a smn or lacks dps anwyay blm post lvl 60 are "crap" , TP burns in the expansion zones killed the skillchains + MB .... i played FFXI as taru , and my main is smn , but rolled rng to 75 and blu , GEAR means all at high lvls ... hell no1 can outdps me in sky with  my taru rng <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> hell i know a lot of humes galkas rdm blms whm smn that are amazing a galka smn in my server had more MP than my taru smn , why? uber gear...+ mp - hp , while my taru was wearing HQ bomb ring hp+75 sometimes just to avoid death in the 1 aoes.... in FFXI gear > skill > race  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> edit : just notice u were DRG ...well the HATED job ...drg/war works ok until 60 , drg/thf works better imo post 60...... snipers are amazing yep , but as drg u have Acc traits...u missed a lot? SE added a lot of gear A LOT 10-70 , with my blue i bought 2 acc rings 30k each  ( dunno name but was a bit worse than Snipers) ....and thats enough .... +1 str in eq2 means? nothing... +1 str in FFXI means a lot ...

[Novusod]

Pretty much all the old races are the same: Dark elf = high elf = Iksar = Human = Half elf.... Ratonga does get a nice racial ability with there snare but that is about it for the old races. Fae/Arsai can fly and get places no one else can. Fae also get a miniture form with faster runspeed. Were the Fae racial abilities game breaking? No. But I would like to see the other races get something rather then the nothingness they offer now. It was mentioned Iksars should have faster swimming. What is wrong with that? Maybe Froglocks should get underwater breathing. I suggested in another thread that dark elves be given underworld levitation like the drow have in D&D. The half elf ability called Ayar-dal assault should be changed to a passive good until canceled buff rather than 3 minutes of worthless buff on a 30 minute recast. I selected it at level 50 and never once used it. Come on throw some of these other races a bone too. Maybe wood elves can climb trees or something.