you people are crazy. [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

TerabithianWhisperwi

05-25-2007, 10:02 PM

I don't get it. I don't GET it. I do not understand.So I started my wizard. Great. He's 15th level. Go me. I've got him in the best possible armor from head to toe. I have him with every single spell at Adept 3, with the exception of his main nuke, which is at Master 2. He's got great stats, and I am an intelligent player. I spend weeks reading this board before I made him. I am quite proud of him, and I am thinking we'll go far.there's just one problem.I AM DYING ALL THE FARGING TIME!!! ALLLL THE TIME.My nuke, my MASTER II nuke gets resisted constantly. My casting skills are all maxed (disruption, etc). My intelligence is through the roof. My one root spell (arcane binding Adept 3) holds for one hit only. It is almost always resisted, but when it does hold, it lasts ONE CAST. I am using the stun. I am using every single trick I have read on this board, and yet, I am dying A TON.Just now, just before I came to write these words, I died in solo combat to a GREEN. A GREEN!!!!!!!!! Individual green. Nothing special. Killed literally dozens without losing health before it. Then....resisted. resisted. resisted. resisted. resisted. resisted. resisted. BAM. resisted resisted resisted me dead.I have everything possible maxed out. This should not be happening....and yet, it is. And with regularity. I understand the "glass" part of the glass cannon, but COME ON.So please, someone give me some hope here. Someone tell me that this gets better. Someone tell me that I'm not going to go through the rest of this guy's career watching my roots do nothing, my nukes get resisted, and watching me get 2-hit by the local tavern-wench. This is AWFUL!!All I can do is keep channeling the hatred for this crap into my Nerian toon here and let it feed his fire to kill more, which will in turn make him die more, etc etc. Seriously though. What is the secret here? What am I missing? what the farging heck is going ONNNN here?! I did FAR better with my bards for god's sake. that's just wrong. lol.-Morticandarius of Mistmoore.

D-DevilK

05-26-2007, 05:45 AM

All I can tell you, is we suck until Ball of Fire. I noticed that I would get resisted alot in my early days, but not as much as you proclaim. Try waiting it out until around 26. It gets better with time, you haven't seen a fraction of what we can do yet. (Also, try a INT hex doll before you pull.)

ggage

05-26-2007, 09:34 AM

hmmm, i remember when i first started my wiz.....was the best decision i ever made.Well to help you out as i leveld i only upgraded my roots and biggest nuke. Yes i said roots as in more than one. It gets way better, especially when you get that encounter root. A couple things i can think of, dont go after mobs that are white or higher until you get to the higher level ranges. Even then in your best gear you will die, sometimes in one hit. The Key is persistence, root, root, root some more, dont let that mob get close to you. lots of runnin, you get hit you're dead. Power is kinda key at lower levels also, its the reason i only upgraded one nuke. highest damage to power ratio. (i think its ball of fire as said above)Also int, if by best gear you mean highest mitigation, throw it away. int gear is what you need, i used a level 30ish robe til i was level 62 just for the int and power increase. at which time i saved enough for the rare int based crafted stuff.Jewelry items are probably the best upgrades money can buy for you....most int and power per tier.Resists are huge, i always use my doll to debuf after i get the root laid down. You wont be able to kill named mobs early on by yourself, you can try but you will most likely run out of power. So stick to green and blue con soloish mobs (they drop quick, so more xp over time) Today i kill named ^^^ heroic mobs in 2 to 3 spells solo.thats about all i can think of, stick to it. Wizard is a fun class, you may not end up with best dps, but you will deffenitly have the highest hits. I hope this helps you out. good luckAkarri-Nektulos server

Pyzon

05-26-2007, 11:31 AM

I'm somewhat new to the game. I just started a wizard. I got him to 19 last night. What I did was when I got that upgrade option to upgrade a spell to master 2, I upgraded my ae spell (don't remember the name...mabey conflag) and I'm barely dressed, mostly quest gear although I try to upgrade my spells when I can. Anyway, I can kill 4-6 2 or 3 arrow down at the sametime. I don't worry about root, I just nuke one and ae the rest. I did the last 4 or 5 levels doing that. Only died a few times. I'm sure in the higher levels I'll have to play a little smarter but for now it's ok. I do have a question, I have noticed that I can't kill elites very well if at all. Does that change as I level?Matchead <Fabled> Oasis server

TerabithianWhisperwi

05-26-2007, 01:01 PM

Yeah, I'm all int-gear. Power is not an issue at all.I don't know anything about hex dolls...I've never played a tailor. If there's a hex-doll (or anything else for that matter) I can do to help debuff those farging resists, I'd be better off. I will look into dolls immediately.Yeah, I'm hoping the root times get longer, or something. Holding a creature for 1 hit is useless. I had thought that it was breaking, but it really just is very short.I can kill yellow's if they have an arrow down. I can do blue ^'s most of the time, but white ones chew right through me by resisting everything. As I said, I've made a very hateful wizard here, with the idea that the deaths would fuel his fire....I just didn't expect to be this gimpy out of the gate. But I'm hoping it pays off if I have the patience to get to the upper levels.thanks for the input. Keep it coming. lol

buzzmeier2

05-26-2007, 02:13 PM

It definitely gets better. It is always rough at the lower levels and does not in anyway reflect how the character is at higher levels. On my Wizard i can solo the Nest of the Great EGG. I do it every day without any help. The only guy that gives me fits is the last one and only cause i get low on power. I use a God spell on him to make it doable. Wizards are a great class and although we are not the best solo class we can still do it with alot of patience.Prima-70 Wizard Kithicor

hammerfil

05-26-2007, 07:15 PM

first off just by reading these forums isnt going to make you instantly good at your class. secondly u need to play your class and learn him. yes it does get better. wizards are one of the top dps in game if you can play your class well. i wouldnt waste my money buying the best gear at lvl 15 though. it gets better with time most effective once you hit 50 because you have Ice Comet. keep going

Mareth

05-26-2007, 08:13 PM

Yeah, it's kind of crap in the earlier levels, it'll only get better. As for the dying though, get used to it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

IllusiveThoughts

05-26-2007, 10:31 PM

<cite>Mareth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, it's kind of crap in the earlier levels, it'll only get better. As for the dying though, get used to it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> +1once you get ball of fire M2 at 24 it gets much easier, because then you can just root + bof / wait for root, then bof until root breaks and repeat.

TerabithianWhisperwi

05-26-2007, 11:23 PM

yeah. I'm lvl 18 now, and zipping along, questing and dying, but progressing.I gotta tell you, what I'm REALLY looking forward to, even more than BOF at 24, is a root that holds longer than arcane bindings. It'll be like Christmas. In most of my fights, it's a battle to simply get a nuke off, and that is if the root has landed successfully!(I'm kinda proud that I soloed this spider-filled cave in Darklight Wood, and killed the 2 named in there that I found, being all of 17. *flex* that was a number of deaths right there...lol)I took a look at hex dolls on the broker, and I'll certainly pick one up at 20. I've been working the wisdom tree and I'm 3 points into the ward. My plan is to get to the end ability, then respec it over to AGI. Then I'll work toward manaburn, and after that comes the STR tree. I'm tempted to shoot for the STR tree first....but I figure manaburn will be a bigger plus in my 40's. Once I get ice comet, I'll hopefully be working the STR tree, but if not I can always respec to STR, and work the AGI tree instead.but yeah, resists. wow. so. many. resists.

deKoven

05-27-2007, 10:11 AM

<cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote>yeah. I'm lvl 18 now, and zipping along, questing and dying, but progressing.I gotta tell you, what I'm REALLY looking forward to, even more than BOF at 24, is a root that holds longer than arcane bindings. It'll be like Christmas. In most of my fights, it's a battle to simply get a nuke off, and that is if the root has landed successfully!(I'm kinda proud that I soloed this spider-filled cave in Darklight Wood, and killed the 2 named in there that I found, being all of 17. *flex* that was a number of deaths right there...lol)I took a look at hex dolls on the broker, and I'll certainly pick one up at 20. I've been working the wisdom tree and I'm 3 points into the ward. My plan is to get to the end ability, then respec it over to AGI. Then I'll work toward manaburn, and after that comes the STR tree. I'm tempted to shoot for the STR tree first....but I figure manaburn will be a bigger plus in my 40's. Once I get ice comet, I'll hopefully be working the STR tree, but if not I can always respec to STR, and work the AGI tree instead.but yeah, resists. wow. so. many. resists.</blockquote>Sorry ta bust yer bubble; next above AB's is Manacles. I'm running Adept I Manacles and get them busted like they was paper all the time. I've found a few things though; first thing is that animals at your own lvl are harder to take out than a baddie (or goodie if you're playing that way) at the same lvl. Second thing is that yer gonna die a lot. Keep enough cash to fix up and remember the path to the mender. If you're soloing at lower levels then Named mobs are a no-no. Named monsters are also a no-no (for the most part). <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

suroktheslayer5

05-27-2007, 01:29 PM

Level 15? Sorry but I can level any toon to level 15 in one day. One day's worth of playing a class isn't enough to understand it or even remotely come close to mastering it. You can have the best gear plat can buy but you still gotta learn the ins and outs of your spells, casting order, when to root etc. You can button mash a mob to death with some other classes but with a wizzy you gotta use your head to stay alive. And yes, you will die alot. Dying alot is what comes with the class. We don't have pets, heals, or armor to protect ourselves. All we have is our roots, nukes and good old wizzy ingenuity. <img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b344/suroktheslayer/Suroksig.jpg" border="0">

JohnDoe058

05-27-2007, 03:06 PM

The biggest thing that changes as u lvl is resists. As of EoF (LU24, I think), resists are totally crazy at lower levels. Not so once you get up there. I only get resisted more than 1% of the time, by yellows.At 70, with fabled gear, I solo heroics without even troubling myself to root them. Yeah, it gets WAY better.

TerabithianWhisperwi

05-27-2007, 03:19 PM

thanks for the continued feedback.Level 19, and I got the upgraded bind spell, manacles, which holds for 15 seconds as opposed to 10 seconds. Quite an improvement, and I killed a couple of white ^'s, and a green ^^ group today with it.Surok, I'm not sure when I ever said that I was mastering anything. I can also level a toon to 15 in a day. My point wasn't that I would know all that the wizard is in a day, but that root/nuke in the early levels is almost ridiculous due to a 10-second root, and 75% or higher resist rate. I knew dying was going to happen, I just didn't realize it would be a way of life. (err kinda zen...)I'm certainly glad to hear that resist rates get better. getting 4 to 6 of them in a row is frustrating, and my frustration was centered on the fact that I had everything maxed on myself, so I simply cannot account for why so many are happening. It has gotten better though, and the whites and yellows I am fighting seem to be about what greens and blues were at lower levels with regards to resists. This is to be expected....they are whites and yellows! But in the 1-15 bracket, blues and greens had resisted the crap out of me. looking forward to the next big nuke....-Morticandarius of Mistmoore

Goldom111111111

05-27-2007, 03:42 PM

That's interesting you said resists at low lv are high since EoF. I just thought mobs in Gfay were crazy-resisty, and was going to say darklight seems that way too. But maybe it's just cause I haven't started a new old-city character since EoF. And yeah. Ball of Fire = you win. Even if you die, come on - massive red numbers in the thousands is great. (Make your crit color red. It's more dramatic that way).

Alku

05-28-2007, 03:51 AM

Wait, you're going to get Wis tree and then respec to Agi and then add in Str? ...and not use Wis in the end? I strongly urge you to reconsider this path... Wis is hands down the best line we get, the debate is between Str and Agi.

Thumatos

05-28-2007, 08:18 AM

it gets better. Given im only 27 atm. But i went to solo in el. was able to take and kill turtles ( 30-32 ) at level 26 and DID NOT DIE. although the 32's came real close <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Make sure your root is highest ya can get. ad3 at least. root, freehand sorcery, nike, nuke, root. is my pattern. now just fyi the xp gain wasnt worth it. got same xp from a blue. but still made me feel good.

TerabithianWhisperwi

05-28-2007, 12:55 PM

Why so Alkure?The way I'm looking at it is this...let's start with the benefits.WIS gives me freehand sorcery, a ward, an 8% (max) boost to all damage, and a 12% power savings.AGI gets me an interrupt, a boost to in-combat speed, a boost to casting times, and a 12% reuse savings.STR gets me an attack I won't use, parrying, spell crit improvement, and a guaranteed crit.Now, from my play so far (I'm currently all of 21, so my experience isn't worth diddly), I do alot of rooting, praying, and nuking. My root breaks alot, and I do alot of backing up.EVERYTHING I do screams at me to cast faster. Faster casting times and faster recast timers = me being able to do what I want, when I want to. To me, the AGI tree is a complete must-have. As it is right now, the monster is able to get a hit or two in before the re-root is successful (in a break situation). 12% will go a long way to making that "almost a hit". The interrupt is great (I tend to rush casters anyhow. let them have my damage shield...), and the run speed is obviously handy.I have found Freehand Sorcery disappointing, and I'll show you why. Let's say that my FH is giving me a 25% boost. And let's say that I have a spell that does from 100-500 points of damage. I can cast this thing with FH and hit for 125, or anywhere in between. It is not enhancing the top available damage, but rather enhancing the damage I am randomly doing.The added crit bonus of the STR tree is helpful, but the real (and only) reason to go STR is that Catalyst ability. Now, with that same spell, I am doing 500, guaranteed, which rocks all over FH. Plus, with my AGI tree in place, those things will be made available to me again 12% faster.Power has yet to even come close to being an issue for me, as a soloist.This is clearly based on only 21 levels of experience and spells, so if I'm waaay off-base here, I'd love to be educated as to why. I've read the forum enough to see the parses and the hooplah. But what I do is think of 2 wizards of exactly the same stats, spells, gear, and playstyle (they'll toss the same spells in the same order at each other). The player with AGI wins hands down due to being the faster draw, and the person with STR is going to hit the hardest. I want to be that guy.-Morticandarius of Mistmoore.

JohnDoe058

05-28-2007, 02:38 PM

suroktheslayer5

05-28-2007, 10:47 PM

Wis AA is over played. I was in a pick up raid today, had all types show up...uber guild fabled claymore pimps, this is my alt I outfit him with table scraps, solo fabled loners...and me. I'm not in an uber raiding guild, most of my gear I've gotten through group instance/soloing efforts. My guild raids twice a week and I only am able to show up once a week for the crap raids. Given that, somehow the uber raid guild necro and I were neck and neck on the dps count. The solo fabled wizzy clocked out about 2/3's of my dps even though I think he had much better gear than I had. Skill and knowing your class is under played alot, if you want to be good at your class then you're gonna have to invest some time and effort to get to know your class. I don't play too many alts. I think playing alts distracts you and water down your playing skills. There is soemthing to be said for learning how other classes are played but I don't think you'll ever excel at a particular class if you don't pin down a main and stick with it. I'm a Str/Agi power/shielding manaburn wiz. I'm not saying this particular combination will give the best dps but it works for me. I think uber dps has to do with 50% skill, 20% aa choice and 30% gear. Every time you cast you gotta think "ok which spell can I cast that will give me the most dps (the trusest sense of the phares) rigth now". Trying to squeeze every ounce of dps out of your spell inventory is the the game you gotta play. Thats what gives you the uber dps, not the gear (sure it helps) and not the AA choice. It comes down to skillz. <img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b344/suroktheslayer/Suroksig.jpg" border="0">

JohnDoe058

05-29-2007, 04:36 PM

<cite>suroktheslayer5 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think uber dps has to do with 50% skill, 20% aa choice and 30% gear. </blockquote> I wouldn't even give AA choice and gear that much credit. In my experience, it would be more like 70 skill, 10 AA, 20 gear. Unless you can get Avatar gear...most of us will never see that. Void where prohibited.And don't get me wrong about Wis AA...I think that it's best OVERALL for dps, and much safer than STR. You could possibly get better DPS from the STR line if aggro control is excellent, and you really maximize the use of Catalyst. To many of us, that's just too many "if"s.

BungFoo

05-29-2007, 05:54 PM

<cite>suroktheslayer5 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wis AA is over played. I was in a pick up raid today, had all types show up...uber guild fabled claymore pimps, this is my alt I outfit him with table scraps, solo fabled loners...and me. I'm not in an uber raiding guild, most of my gear I've gotten through group instance/soloing efforts. My guild raids twice a week and I only am able to show up once a week for the crap raids. Given that, somehow the uber raid guild necro and I were neck and neck on the dps count. The solo fabled wizzy clocked out about 2/3's of my dps even though I think he had much better gear than I had. Skill and knowing your class is under played alot, if you want to be good at your class then you're gonna have to invest some time and effort to get to know your class. I don't play too many alts. I think playing alts distracts you and water down your playing skills. There is soemthing to be said for learning how other classes are played but I don't think you'll ever excel at a particular class if you don't pin down a main and stick with it. I'm a Str/Agi power/shielding manaburn wiz. I'm not saying this particular combination will give the best dps but it works for me. I think uber dps has to do with 50% skill, 20% aa choice and 30% gear. Every time you cast you gotta think "ok which spell can I cast that will give me the most dps (the trusest sense of the phares) rigth now". Trying to squeeze every ounce of dps out of your spell inventory is the the game you gotta play. Thats what gives you the uber dps, not the gear (sure it helps) and not the AA choice. It comes down to skillz. </blockquote>Quoted for truth. Understanding your spells is the key to doing bomber dps. Second is having enough power to keep you going through the fight. Third is knowing how to control your agro because if you die your dps = 0 (or seriously reduced if you get an in combat rez). My wiz has AA's in the WIS and STA lines. On my guilds raid sunday I was third in dps behind a necro and someone else (I can't remember which class but it was a scout). My wiz is only level 62. The other two were 70. I don't have particularly great gear. I just started raiding a few weeks ago but my wiz is over two years old.

Raiwa

05-30-2007, 02:44 PM

One of the biggest points about AA setup and gear use is what you want to do.. If you are leveling up and doing solo small heroic group runs... You will want to look at your AA differently than say some one in there 60s and starting to raid or some one that is 70 and raiding full time. My AA set up presently puts me at the top group of our Raid DPS ... Our Assian, conjy , necro and me... all depends on our group set up and who gets what buffs. never enough dirges, troubs and illus, furys and templars to go around. Im set with a Agi, Wis with Fire to BOL and ice shape and friged gift max. This gives me the best dps for my raid group make up. If i wanted solo or heroic group I would be Str, Wis manaburn with Iceshape, I had this for a long while. But my raid parse was not high enough for me so I changed over to my new line and my group dps droped and my Raid dps jumped 300 xdps on zone wide, thats on a typical raid is anouther 1mill dmg per hour. Also in the last 7 raids since i change over I cast non stop with out having to use my deagro spells and i have only pulled agro 2 or 3 times with a F bomb and lived threw those compared to always fighting agro to get high dps, with my old AA set up i was alway top 4 in our raids but was never competing for the top spot I am now. In a group my AA setup is sub par to others that are set for big numbers when heroic fights only last 10 to 20 sec and names die in under 30 sec, speed on your reuse timers and casting speed actully are ousted by being able to do 25k F bomb or a 20k ice nova. and a 50k plus manaburn. But this is what it takes to make high DPS on the parse you haft to look at what you are doing, Set your aa for it, Also look at your gear and make the correct choices there. and work on your casting order use the best dmg spells you can and use them in a effeciant manner to get the most damage in in the time the mobs alive. But there are already several threads on casting orders out there already and which spells are the most effcient and which one to use only if you have nothing else to cast. All this is just my opinion on What works for Me. and that is it in a nut shell Practice, work at it, experiment and figure out what works for you and if you are grouped with a wizard that is smaking you down on the parse look to see what gear he has ask his AA and check his buffs and try it out to see if it works for you.

TerabithianWhisperwi

05-30-2007, 05:08 PM

I now have BOF, and, I am in Love.I'm going to chew through the 20's. egad.-Morticandarius Rathbourne of Mistmoore

IllusiveThoughts

05-31-2007, 02:40 AM

<cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote> I now have BOF, and, I am in Love.I'm going to chew through the 20's. egad.-Morticandarius Rathbourne of Mistmoore</blockquote> horde all your aa points and get manaburn(21 needed) as early as possible, and it will completely OWN solo until you get to 50 with ice comet.

StarEquate

05-31-2007, 09:34 AM

Ball of Flame is great in the early twenties but be aware that it won't upgrage for 14 levels. In the 30s you won't be 2 shotting mobs with ball of flame. Also the mobs hitpoints seems to be small in the 20's and but in higher levels you don't get as much bang for the buck with BOF and its upgrades. Meaning that the spell wont be taking half or more of the mobs health when you use it. Are you using the debuff dot that wizards have. The dot can make resists lower but it can also break the root early. This is one area where warlocks have the better debuff ability as it is one shot and also debuffs the whole encounter.

TerabithianWhisperwi

05-31-2007, 09:42 AM

yeah. I'm already kicking myself, because I started off in the sorcerer tree. I figured I'd start on manaburn next, but honestly, 21 more points is going to take me probably until my mid-40's anyhow. I'm level 23 with 16 points in the WIS tree. I should probably just stop progressing in the KoS tree and start immediately toward manaburn, but I feel kinda bad leaving the tree undone. Hrm. Decisions. Did my first altar quest, am working on my trials quests in Nek forest, while also working various beach-side quests in Butcherblock. having a blast. I wonder how long it would take me to gain the additional 21 points if I started right now...that would put me at 37 points total... -Morticandarius is going to need a signature if he's gonna roll on this forum.

simpwrx02

05-31-2007, 12:03 PM

I would say that is you do every solo quest you can find you will get AAs really fast I think i hit 37 AA around lvl 33-35 with my illusionist, doing mostly solo quests, then doing a dungeon in a group once to get the AA from killing named and discos.

Alku

05-31-2007, 12:20 PM

<cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why so Alkure?The way I'm looking at it is this...let's start with the benefits.WIS gives me freehand sorcery, a ward, an 8% (max) boost to all damage, and a 12% power savings.AGI gets me an interrupt, a boost to in-combat speed, a boost to casting times, and a 12% reuse savings.STR gets me an attack I won't use, parrying, spell crit improvement, and a guaranteed crit.Now, from my play so far (I'm currently all of 21, so my experience isn't worth diddly), I do alot of rooting, praying, and nuking. My root breaks alot, and I do alot of backing up.EVERYTHING I do screams at me to cast faster. Faster casting times and faster recast timers = me being able to do what I want, when I want to. To me, the AGI tree is a complete must-have. As it is right now, the monster is able to get a hit or two in before the re-root is successful (in a break situation). 12% will go a long way to making that "almost a hit". The interrupt is great (I tend to rush casters anyhow. let them have my damage shield...), and the run speed is obviously handy.I have found Freehand Sorcery disappointing, and I'll show you why. Let's say that my FH is giving me a 25% boost. And let's say that I have a spell that does from 100-500 points of damage. I can cast this thing with FH and hit for 125, or anywhere in between. It is not enhancing the top available damage, but rather enhancing the damage I am randomly doing.The added crit bonus of the STR tree is helpful, but the real (and only) reason to go STR is that Catalyst ability. Now, with that same spell, I am doing 500, guaranteed, which rocks all over FH. Plus, with my AGI tree in place, those things will be made available to me again 12% faster.Power has yet to even come close to being an issue for me, as a soloist.This is clearly based on only 21 levels of experience and spells, so if I'm waaay off-base here, I'd love to be educated as to why. I've read the forum enough to see the parses and the hooplah. But what I do is think of 2 wizards of exactly the same stats, spells, gear, and playstyle (they'll toss the same spells in the same order at each other). The player with AGI wins hands down due to being the faster draw, and the person with STR is going to hit the hardest. I want to be that guy.-Morticandarius of Mistmoore.</blockquote> Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread, I completely forgot and will check more. First off, you are extremely underestimating the 8% increased damage from the 4th ability in the wis line. That's 8% base damage to every single nuke. This is easily (proven by both math and parses) our best dps increasing AA. Throw in Freehand and the wis line has two great abilities that increase DPS in a large way. It's completely up to you if you if you want to experiment with other lines of course, I'm just telling you what will give you the best results but experimentation is always good. As for the other two lines, strength and agility... this is pretty borderline for soloing, probably leaning towards agility in the earlier levels and switching to strength as your nukes get larger as the guarantee'd critical from catalyst will have the biggest return on the biggest nuke... the less return you get from this, the better agility's benefit is (longer fights also favor agility over strength which is why more raiders use agility). I also don't think you made a mistake by going sorcerer tree before the wizard tree as this is also widely accepted as the standard... mostly because the 20 points before manaburn are wasted (power regen) at those levels.

TheBu

05-31-2007, 01:09 PM

ok... now wer is ilu and his sig...something about dieing alot right?we are wiz and we die.. .its all about groups..and group buffsps The beginer may need to make sure his disruption and subjegation is up..

IllusiveThoughts

05-31-2007, 06:46 PM

<cite>Alkure wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why so Alkure?The way I'm looking at it is this...let's start with the benefits.WIS gives me freehand sorcery, a ward, an 8% (max) boost to all damage, and a 12% power savings.AGI gets me an interrupt, a boost to in-combat speed, a boost to casting times, and a 12% reuse savings.STR gets me an attack I won't use, parrying, spell crit improvement, and a guaranteed crit.Now, from my play so far (I'm currently all of 21, so my experience isn't worth diddly), I do alot of rooting, praying, and nuking. My root breaks alot, and I do alot of backing up.EVERYTHING I do screams at me to cast faster. Faster casting times and faster recast timers = me being able to do what I want, when I want to. To me, the AGI tree is a complete must-have. As it is right now, the monster is able to get a hit or two in before the re-root is successful (in a break situation). 12% will go a long way to making that "almost a hit". The interrupt is great (I tend to rush casters anyhow. let them have my damage shield...), and the run speed is obviously handy.I have found Freehand Sorcery disappointing, and I'll show you why. Let's say that my FH is giving me a 25% boost. And let's say that I have a spell that does from 100-500 points of damage. I can cast this thing with FH and hit for 125, or anywhere in between. It is not enhancing the top available damage, but rather enhancing the damage I am randomly doing.The added crit bonus of the STR tree is helpful, but the real (and only) reason to go STR is that Catalyst ability. Now, with that same spell, I am doing 500, guaranteed, which rocks all over FH. Plus, with my AGI tree in place, those things will be made available to me again 12% faster.Power has yet to even come close to being an issue for me, as a soloist.This is clearly based on only 21 levels of experience and spells, so if I'm waaay off-base here, I'd love to be educated as to why. I've read the forum enough to see the parses and the hooplah. But what I do is think of 2 wizards of exactly the same stats, spells, gear, and playstyle (they'll toss the same spells in the same order at each other). The player with AGI wins hands down due to being the faster draw, and the person with STR is going to hit the hardest. I want to be that guy.-Morticandarius of Mistmoore.</blockquote> Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread, I completely forgot and will check more. First off, you are extremely underestimating the 8% increased damage from the 4th ability in the wis line. That's 8% base damage to every single nuke. This is easily (proven by both math and parses) our best dps increasing AA. Throw in Freehand and the wis line has two great abilities that increase DPS in a large way. It's completely up to you if you if you want to experiment with other lines of course, I'm just telling you what will give you the best results but experimentation is always good. As for the other two lines, strength and agility... this is pretty borderline for soloing, probably leaning towards agility in the earlier levels and switching to strength as your nukes get larger as the guarantee'd critical from catalyst will have the biggest return on the biggest nuke... the less return you get from this, the better agility's benefit is (longer fights also favor agility over strength which is why more raiders use agility). I also don't think you made a mistake by going sorcerer tree before the wizard tree as this is also widely accepted as the standard... mostly because the 20 points before manaburn are wasted (power regen) at those levels. </blockquote>free hand and brainstorm are good choices that is not what is debatable.However you have to consider the OP has been doing lots of soloing (hence his reference to dieing from root resists ect)manaburn is THE best solo tool for a wizard pre ice comet. we get 0 nukes of that calibur until 50. while 8% more dmg and 28% more on a ball of flames/fire/lava ect is nice, its not enough to 2 shot named caster mobs that he could be soloing for loot.then pair manaburn up with ice comet at 50 and stuf just melts away. It isn't until up 60's when ice comet/manaburn no longer two shot named mobs. but then you can use wrath of the burning prince + bol + ice nova + manaburn to 3 shot them <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Alku

06-01-2007, 12:50 AM

IllusiveThoughts wrote: <blockquote>free hand and brainstorm are good choices that is not what is debatable.However you have to consider the OP has been doing lots of soloing (hence his reference to dieing from root resists ect)manaburn is THE best solo tool for a wizard pre ice comet. we get 0 nukes of that calibur until 50. while 8% more dmg and 28% more on a ball of flames/fire/lava ect is nice, its not enough to 2 shot named caster mobs that he could be soloing for loot.then pair manaburn up with ice comet at 50 and stuf just melts away. It isn't until up 60's when ice comet/manaburn no longer two shot named mobs. but then you can use wrath of the burning prince + bol + ice nova + manaburn to 3 shot them <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> I agree with you if his goal is to solo named for loot. If he is wanting to just solo and level up for now as the primary goal I stand by the sorcerer tree but given that, as you said, we don't get a big nuke until 50, perhaps the wis, agi, and str lines will not have such a large impact. I suppose that for the first 50 levels, the stamina line would be best until the larger nukes come since stamina will have more of an effect on any level due to the resist reductions, which fits the mold of the OP's problem anyways. Either way, my main point was about wisdom vs. strength. I don't think there's much to debate there... they both shine better with larger nukes and have less of an effect on smaller ones. The truth is though that the wisdom line is just flat out better dps than the strength line so there is really no reason to get strength before wisdom or to respec to strength like the OP said. If named solo'ing is the goal then yes, IT has a point and MB is the best tool we have, but once you're locked into the sorc. tree my other points hold true.

TerabithianWhisperwi

06-01-2007, 12:55 AM

which is exactly why I've planned it out the way I have. I'm a soloist.I have, with 16 points in the Sorc tree, started putting points into the Wiz tree towards manaburn. I'm actually going to do this via 10 points into the ward, 10 points into spells, and then respec on the 21st point. If I time it right, I should hit level 35 about the time I get manaburn, and I'll already have 16 points in the WIS tree.That being said, I would then work towards the end WIS ability, and then immediately respec into the AGI tree. The faster cast and refresh times are going to save my life. I'll pick up the STR line later on, for Catalyst in my 50-70 career, though once I raid/group I'd go WIS over STR most likely.why? Look at it this way. Let's say I have a monster to kill. To kill it requires 1000 points of damage, which I am going to do by casting a 100 damage spell 10 times. (Just for easy math purposes.)If I had the WIS line all maxed out, these spells would all be hitting for 108 points of damage, meaning at the end of my 10th cast, I'll have done 1080 points of damage. With the AGI line all maxed out, these spells would be hitting for 100 points of damage, meaning at the end of my 10th cast, I'll have done 1000 points of damage. WIS seems to have the edge here.However, with the AGI line maxed out, I am actually able to cast 11 (maybe even 12, but 11 is a definite) sets of this spell in the same amount of time 10 took me with the WIS line. So, in reality, I've done 1100 points of damage in the same amount of time. (The AGI tree grants 12% faster refresh, coupled with a roughly 10% faster casting time, with a 2% refresh bonus from my familiar. This is not taking ANY gear bonuses into account).So it seems to me, a lowly rookie, that AGI has a DPS edge here by the benefit of added castings over time. I would think the same principle would hold true in grouping or raiding, but I've done neither of those, so I wouldn't know. I would think an AGI/WIS combo would be a very lethal combo, if the temptation of Catalyst could be resisted.I myself will go the Catalyst route for awhile because I want to see ridiculous hits from my main nukes. But I'm sure the logic of the AGI/WIS combo will bring me back that way. Who knows? I gotta get there first!!!!Level 24 and counting,-Morticandarius Rathbourne of Mistmooreps. No wrath of the burning prince for me. I'm an Innoruuk man through and through.

Alku

06-01-2007, 03:30 AM

You have a few issues in your post. 1. You are factoring in the familiar when talking about agility benefits. That is a static value that will be there no matter what path you choose, there's no point in factoring it in. 2. You factored in multiple abilities in the agility line but for some reason choose to only factor in one ability from the wisdom line. What about Freehand sorcery? Surely if you're talking about a fight where you'll get in 10 nukes, you might even have time for a second freehand for a 30% damage increase twice. If you want to compare ability to ability, do it like this... here's Spellshaping vs. Brainstorm using my current stats. In this example I didn't factor in Spellshifting or Freehand, just the two ability's on the same level of the AA tree. Sunstrike: Spellshaping (Rank 8: 14.4% increased casting speed) 4.75 Casting cycle (casting time + refresh) 818 average damage 172.21 DPS Sunstrike: Brainstorm (Rank 8: 8% base damage increase) 5 Casting cylce 883 average damage 176.6 DPS The difference is larger the larger the nuke is. To go by your example quickly of a 100 damage nuke... Sunstrike: Spellshaping (Rank 8: 14.4% increased casting speed) 4.75 Casting cycle (casting time + refresh) 100 average damage 21.05 DPS Sunstrike: Brainstorm (Rank 8: 8% base damage increase) 5 Casting cylce 108 average damage 21.6 DPS So the difference is small but even with small numbers you gave in your example the difference favors Brainstorm. Just for good measure, let's try something with a longer casting time. Ice Nova: Spellshaping (Rank 8: 14.4% increased casting speed) 43.7 Casting cycle (casting time + refresh) 5955.5 average damage 136.28 DPS Ice Nova: Brainstorm (Rank 8: 8% base damage increase) 49 Casting cylce 6431.94 average damage 131.26 DPS So you can see here that yes, longer casting times do benefit more from the faster casting times but that's also the ones that benefit the most from freehand sorcery, which I might type up a comparison of later (involving the full tree of both). Though if you are going manaburn my argument is even stronger as it is effected by both freehand sorcery AND brainstorm. The agility line will help the 5 minute refresh timer (taking it to 4:28) but it will not help during the fight. After some thinking on this, if I was level 20ish again and had manaburn, I would do the following: Wisdom Line: 4/8/0/0/0 (12 pts) Respec 13th point Stamina Line: 4/4/4/8 (20 pts) Wisdom Line: 4/8/4/0/0 (36 pts) Respec 37th point Stamina Line: 4/4/4/8/0 (20 pts) [same as before] Wisdom Line: 4/4/4/8/0 (40 pts) Wisdom Line: 4/7/4/8/1 (45 pts) Of course this is just pre-50 which might not last while you hit 45 AA points.

TerabithianWhisperwi

06-01-2007, 08:02 AM

I forgot to figure in Freehand. This is true. Blargh. As I said, clearly an AGI/WIS build seems the way to go for a soloist like myself. The best of both.I will go: AGI 4,4,6,8,1 and WIS 4, 6, 4, 8, 1, but not before trying STR for awhile to play with Catalyst!(wouldn't a Catalyst-like ability on the Epic be a great thing?!) (poke poke poke)STA is horrid. horrid. You couldn't pay me to take that tree.Currently I'm WIS 4,4,4,4,0 and 3 points in Magi's Shielding, working toward manaburn.I thank you Alkure and others for your continued tutorance. It is helping a ton!-Morticandarius Rathbourne of Mistmoore.

Alku

06-01-2007, 10:19 AM

<cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote>I forgot to figure in Freehand. This is true. Blargh. As I said, clearly an AGI/WIS build seems the way to go for a soloist like myself. The best of both.I will go: AGI 4,4,6,8,1 and WIS 4, 6, 4, 8, 1, but not before trying STR for awhile to play with Catalyst!(wouldn't a Catalyst-like ability on the Epic be a great thing?!) (poke poke poke)STA is horrid. horrid. You couldn't pay me to take that tree.Currently I'm WIS 4,4,4,4,0 and 3 points in Magi's Shielding, working toward manaburn.I thank you Alkure and others for your continued tutorance. It is helping a ton!-Morticandarius Rathbourne of Mistmoore.</blockquote> No problem. I think that's a good AGI/WIS build that you outlined. And there's nothing wrong with toying around with STR, I did so myself as well, but the time it really shines is short fights when you fire off one and only one big nuke before the fight is over (groups). Yeah it's nice on heroics but not as nice as AGI. One other comment... "STA is horrid. horrid." Fair enough if you don't want to try it, it sure looks ugly. Battlemage's fervor, though, would solve your biggest problem -- resists.

TerabithianWhisperwi

06-01-2007, 11:45 AM

yeah, "horrid" a bit extreme of a word, but I was thinking that the 8 points spent for a .8 increase in disruption was fairly icky, especially when compared with 8 points spent almost anywhere else. I see what you mean though. I'll go AGI/STR for awhile, and AGI/WIS for awhile, and see how I feel. AGI is a must for me though. My new goal in achievement-land is getting manaburn by level 35. As I mentioned earlier, I currently have 16 points in the wisdom tree, 3 in the Wizard tree, and am level 24. We'll see how it goes. Resists are starting to bite me again, but this is now because my leveling is outpacing my skillups of my spell spheres. I'll catch them up eventually. Meanwhile, I have dwarves to help in Butcherblock, the Trials to undergo in Nek Forest, doing writs and quests for my home city of Neriak, and building my faction and points with my deity, Innoruuk.....not to mention a ton of harvesting and scribing and transmuting to do...along with working the market to make enough money to buy the gear I covet. Who says soloists are less busy? sheesh. -Morticandarius Rathbourne of Mistmoore needs a signature.