Criticism [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

deplorable

05-25-2007, 06:44 PM

The bad: The game box set for the next expansion. For gawd sake INCLUDE THE MANUAL. I mean i bought the game plus 3 expansions - no manual, and the manual in pdf format was OUTDATED and didn't even mention the expansions. I had to literally download the manual from the site to read. Have the decency to include it in the next box set... please.The guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the early 2003, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist.The ability to increase your stats (apprentice - adept etc) is good, except for the new player it's overwhelming, considering most abilites overplace other abilities you just upgraded. (you can tell - they share the same cooldown) Why in gawds name is that FUN?The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.The threat levels are bizare, i actually managed to pull mobs 3 levels below me by passing them, but could dance with the mobs my same level without them glancing in my direction unless i walked right up to them. Plus the fact they seem to chase you across the entire zone.The experiance debt - i actually like, but when you fall off trees (it's normal considering how fast the faes move and... how laggy a crowded city can get) or worse when your a wood elf and you fall 2 feet and die. You still get the debt. It's just so EQ..... i thought we had past the whole exp debt thing, only other MMO that does it now is CoH/CoV and i think i've only died twice in that game.The good -The games a lot of fun in parts, amount of content, nice players, incredible lore and story. Quests that actually make you want to further yourself.it's all let down - it's not fun. It's auto assault without the cars but more races than you can shake a stick at. Even if the character selection screen is bizare, are assassins rogues... no.. they're not. And of course being in europe according to our latest updates (after the login), the servers have been down since 27th April. Genius.Start living in 2007, new MMOs are coming out with half a brain between them - the new guild wars expansion looks swanky (even if GW isn't technically an MMO in the traditional sense) but neither is this at times because since it's zoned unlike WoW you can have different zones (darklight forest 1, 2 and 3) rather an all in one.

BungFoo

05-25-2007, 07:13 PM

You make some specific suggestions but your tone is probably going to rub people the wrong way. All I can saw about the spells (and combat arts) is that you need to use it and understand it before you criticize it. Over-all I think that EQ2 has a great system. Spells of the same school share the same timer and there is a global timer. IE you can't cast two spells at once. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Learn how to use the legend on the maps. There's an icon that indicates banker as well as many other types of merchants and locations. Also, use EQ2 Map. It rocks. I'm not a big fan of crafting either but a lot of people really like it and a lot of people complained when the simplified it a while ago. Ask a crafter that's been playing since launch about sub-combines <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The threat levels are excellent! You have your color system, all this indicates is the mobs level relative to you. Gray = no xp, green = easy, blue = harder, white = same level as you, yellow = difficult, orange = very difficult, red = likely you will die. You have your heroic system. A mob can be "normal", heroic and epic in addition to having a color con. A red non-heroic will probably still kill you but so will a gray epic because, non-heroics are for soloing, heroics are for groups and epics are for raids. Then you have the arrow system. Range is from three down to three up. This indicates the relative difficulty of a mob given it's level and heroic status. Three down arrow mobs are push overs. Three up arrow mobs are tough [Removed for Content]. Roll it all together and you get a very nuanced and flexible con system that scales from mobs that are easy to solo to mobs that eat raid groups alive. At first this can be very confusing but as you play the game and actually get a feel for what these cons mean you will really appreciate what this system brings to the game. You just *always* have to check the con before you get within range. Oh yeah, red outlined means the mob is agro and will attack you if you breach its agro radius. XP debt is no big deal. It's adds some thrill but it's super easy to work off. Be glad they took out spirit shards. If you died and couldn't recover your shard you suffered lowered status for 24 hours. Guild wars isn't an MMO. Comparing it to EQ2 is apples and oranges. Have fun!

Dyse

05-25-2007, 07:31 PM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The game box set for the next expansion. For gawd sake INCLUDE THE MANUAL. I mean i bought the game plus 3 expansions - no manual, and the manual in pdf format was OUTDATED and didn't even mention the expansions. I had to literally download the manual from the site to read. Have the decency to include it in the next box set... please. -- I've never read a manual for a game yet, but I have peeked at it and I have the exact same November 2004 paperback manual from the collectors edition. Yes, it's very outdatedThe guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the early 2003, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist. -- EQ2 Maps solves that. And coming near the same time as release of Kunark for EQ2, the map system is supposed to be revamped.The ability to increase your stats (apprentice - adept etc) is good, except for the new player it's overwhelming, considering most abilites overplace other abilities you just upgraded. (you can tell - they share the same cooldown) Why in gawds name is that FUN? -- Yeah, pretty repiticious. Maybe a new original spell every 10 levels, but the rest is Bigger of the same for monsters bigger but the same.The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW. -- It's actually a lot easier than launch. At Launch in 2004, you couldn't make an item from raws, you had to make parts for parts then put the parts together. It was no fun then. Now it's easy. We don't need things just handed to us.The threat levels are bizare, i actually managed to pull mobs 3 levels below me by passing them, but could dance with the mobs my same level without them glancing in my direction unless i walked right up to them. Plus the fact they seem to chase you across the entire zone. -- Each Race or Species has different Ranges of Aggro. Some have no Aggro. Makes things interesting, not same for everything. Evil eye's have Long aggro range and can see invisible. Some Kobolds are downright nearsigted and can sneak by pretty easy.The experiance debt - i actually like, but when you fall off trees (it's normal considering how fast the faes move and... how laggy a crowded city can get) or worse when your a wood elf and you fall 2 feet and die. You still get the debt. It's just so EQ..... i thought we had past the whole exp debt thing, only other MMO that does it now is CoH/CoV and i think i've only died twice in that game. -- If falling out of a tree because of neglegence and getting no XP debt would be an easy way out if you want to avoid XP debt in a failing fight. It's be exploited somehow. Personally, XP Loss or corpse retreival would be nice to have back. The good -The games a lot of fun in parts, amount of content, nice players, incredible lore and story. Quests that actually make you want to further yourself.it's all let down - it's not fun. It's auto assault without the cars but more races than you can shake a stick at. Even if the character selection screen is bizare, are assassins rogues... no.. they're not. And of course being in europe according to our latest updates (after the login), the servers have been down since 27th April. Genius. -- Can't argue with ya there. They have no reliable PR. The Test server didn't even have the last Live Update on it (In the US). Server Up/Down messages are NEVER reliable... since the launch. Figure a bunch of programmers could do like DAoC and show LIVE TIME w/o Human required input for it.Start living in 2007, new MMOs are coming out with half a brain between them - the new guild wars expansion looks swanky (even if GW isn't technically an MMO in the traditional sense) but neither is this at times because since it's zoned unlike WoW you can have different zones (darklight forest 1, 2 and 3) rather an all in one. -- I've been playing MMO's since Kunark was released. EQ1 back then, you had REAL time travel. No ringing a bell and poof you're there. too Insta Gratifying now. Ever take a run from Freeport to Qeynos on EQ1? All day event for a young one. There was fear of death back then. DAoC has a good fun factor when it comes to the Capture the flag. I played that until SWG came out. That was fun back before the big nerf and we all left it for a ghost town. Cities built wherever, Roleplaying was at it's best whether your were a Star Wars fan or not. Left that during the big nerf and waited for City of Heroes. That had the BEST fun factor as far as powers and abilities. But every mission was the same and got super boring, but the kiddies still like it. Came to EQ2 on launch and found it to dumbed down, but have stuck with it. Yes, You can level WAAAY too fast in this versus EQ1. No H e ll levels. No working a week or more for just 1 level. Now you can get to 70 within a month... I don't know where's the retention when you can max out so fast. But now it's getting to the point of dumbing down that all you have to do is think about what you want to do and it's done for you without thinking about it. But quests are original and plenty. Lotro, during beta, found it, too... well, I didn't stay past beta. Maxed 4 characters to 15 in the first 2 days of their last open beta. It was a bigger time sink.</blockquote>

Lakaah

05-25-2007, 07:40 PM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The game box set for the next expansion. For gawd sake INCLUDE THE MANUAL. I mean i bought the game plus 3 expansions - no manual, and the manual in pdf format was OUTDATED and didn't even mention the expansions. I had to literally download the manual from the site to read. Have the decency to include it in the next box set... please.Not a bad idea to include a short manual, as long as its updated, not just the original with a new cover. The guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the early 2003, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist.I thought you could ash a guard for a Banker, or Mender etc. Never tried it though. There is an awesome custom UI map available, yes the basic one is not that helpful. The ability to increase your stats (apprentice - adept etc) is good, except for the new player it's overwhelming, considering most abilites overplace other abilities you just upgraded. (you can tell - they share the same cooldown) Why in gawds name is that FUN?I like the system and don't ever recall it feeling overwhelming. I don't like the way it automatically throws new spells/abilities on your hotbar when you level though. The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.It takes 2-4 different materials + 1 fuel to make an item. How is that complicated? <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The threat levels are bizare, i actually managed to pull mobs 3 levels below me by passing them, but could dance with the mobs my same level without them glancing in my direction unless i walked right up to them. Plus the fact they seem to chase you across the entire zone.Threat levels, as you call them, seem pretty standard to me. If you can just start to see the mobs name without having it targeted, you are just about too close. Most mobs don't seem to chase very far at all. It is common practice to just outrun mobs you have aggro'd while traveling, rather than stop and fight. The experiance debt - i actually like, but when you fall off trees (it's normal considering how fast the faes move and... how laggy a crowded city can get) or worse when your a wood elf and you fall 2 feet and die. You still get the debt. It's just so EQ..... i thought we had past the whole exp debt thing, only other MMO that does it now is CoH/CoV and i think i've only died twice in that game.The debt is so incredibly small that it may as well not exist at all. 0.5% of a level. Since it seems you haven't played past the lower levels, you were probably getting 5-10% of a level per mob kill.You can run off the edge of a tower that is probably 6 times taller than the average character without taking any damage at all, let alone dying from it. The good -The games a lot of fun in parts, amount of content, nice players, incredible lore and story. Quests that actually make you want to further yourself.it's all let down - it's not fun. It's auto assault without the cars but more races than you can shake a stick at. Even if the character selection screen is bizare, are assassins rogues... no.. they're not. And of course being in europe according to our latest updates (after the login), the servers have been down since 27th April. Genius.Yeah, the server status webpage could use a little help, to say the least. Start living in 2007, new MMOs are coming out with half a brain between them - the new guild wars expansion looks swanky (even if GW isn't technically an MMO in the traditional sense) but neither is this at times because since it's zoned unlike WoW you can have different zones (darklight forest 1, 2 and 3) rather an all in one.There are things about EQ2 that I am not the most fond of, but most of your complaints are pretty baseless IMO. </blockquote>

The_Cheeseman

05-25-2007, 08:39 PM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The game box set for the next expansion. For gawd sake INCLUDE THE MANUAL. I mean i bought the game plus 3 expansions - no manual, and the manual in pdf format was OUTDATED and didn't even mention the expansions. I had to literally download the manual from the site to read. Have the decency to include it in the next box set... please.The guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the early 2003, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist.The ability to increase your stats (apprentice - adept etc) is good, except for the new player it's overwhelming, considering most abilites overplace other abilities you just upgraded. (you can tell - they share the same cooldown) Why in gawds name is that FUN?The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.The threat levels are bizare, i actually managed to pull mobs 3 levels below me by passing them, but could dance with the mobs my same level without them glancing in my direction unless i walked right up to them. Plus the fact they seem to chase you across the entire zone.The experiance debt - i actually like, but when you fall off trees (it's normal considering how fast the faes move and... how laggy a crowded city can get) or worse when your a wood elf and you fall 2 feet and die. You still get the debt. It's just so EQ..... i thought we had past the whole exp debt thing, only other MMO that does it now is CoH/CoV and i think i've only died twice in that game.The good -The games a lot of fun in parts, amount of content, nice players, incredible lore and story. Quests that actually make you want to further yourself.it's all let down - it's not fun. It's auto assault without the cars but more races than you can shake a stick at. Even if the character selection screen is bizare, are assassins rogues... no.. they're not. And of course being in europe according to our latest updates (after the login), the servers have been down since 27th April. Genius.Start living in 2007, new MMOs are coming out with half a brain between them - the new guild wars expansion looks swanky (even if GW isn't technically an MMO in the traditional sense) but neither is this at times because since it's zoned unlike WoW you can have different zones (darklight forest 1, 2 and 3) rather an all in one. </blockquote> Paper manuals are an outmoded concept. For a game that requires an internet connection just to play, why waste money on printing a book that most people won't even read, when you can simply make a PDF available for download? I cannot think of any other MMOs where you can locate any NPC you need just by typing its name in a box. Heck, you even get a morker on your map, and a nice little glowing trail that literally leads you directly to the person in question. I cannot think of any way to make it more convenient, other than making the entire city little more than a series of context menus. You have to replace spells and combat arts every some-odd levels for the same reason you have to replace your gear: to keep the economy healthy. Otherwise, you just get a master skill from level 10 and use it for the rest of your character's career. You can't get entirely new, original abilities at every level, there simply aren't enough abilities to go around. You'd end up with every class doing everything, otherwise the multitude of minor variations on existing abilities would cause an outcry. Crafting I cannot comment on, as I have never really enjoyed it in any game, and therefore I don't do it. I have never had a problem with aggro, but then I played a monk in EQ1, so I am an expert at recognizing and exploiting aggro ranges. However, that is hardly a flaw with EQ2, as every game I can think of uses the same concept. I have a feeling that you will find this problem vanish as you continue to experience the game more, and get used to the "feel" of aggro. Complaining about exp debt for random deaths is pointless. The terrain features are just as dangerous as MOBs, and the devs are not going to hold people's hands simply because they like to run dangerously close to the edges of treehouses. There is a skill called Safe Fall, as well as the fae racial traits that can help you if you find yourself plumetting to your death on a regular basis, so I would suggest taking advantage of them. EQ2 has the most forgiving death system I have ever experienced, to the point where I have used character death as a means of fast travel in the past. If you can't handle 0.5% exp debt and a few silver for repairs, I suggest finding a new hobby, as you are in for a lot of frustration with MMOs. Having 3 versions of Darklight Woods is far superior to a single instance with 300 people in it, all competing for the same 20 MOBs. I don't know if you played at release, but overcrowding sucks, and only serves to create tension and undue stress for players who are forced to compete for simple trash MOBs, let alone named.

Baccalarium

05-26-2007, 11:15 AM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the early 2003, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist.</blockquote> You haven't typed "banker" into the "find NPC box" on a guard? Being from Qeynos, I do this regularly when I'm in Kelethin and I'm often looking for the banker, broker, or mender. It pops a nice little X on the map where I need to go and that and the map usually gets me there. Most the times if I'd follow the rope it provides, the rope would get me there to. In Qeynos I had to learn my way around to find these things, in after the updates to include this I can just ask a guard every time. Eq2map extension provides thousands of clickable way points on the map all with mouse over information. Don't know where the link is but its was posted once long ago that Soe doesn't consider eq2map a license violation.

Polywogus

05-26-2007, 11:26 AM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The game box set for the next expansion. For gawd sake INCLUDE THE MANUAL. I mean i bought the game plus 3 expansions - no manual, and the manual in pdf format was OUTDATED and didn't even mention the expansions. I had to literally download the manual from the site to read. Have the decency to include it in the next box set... please.The guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the early 2003, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist.The ability to increase your stats (apprentice - adept etc) is good, except for the new player it's overwhelming, considering most abilites overplace other abilities you just upgraded. (you can tell - they share the same cooldown) Why in gawds name is that FUN?The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.The threat levels are bizare, i actually managed to pull mobs 3 levels below me by passing them, but could dance with the mobs my same level without them glancing in my direction unless i walked right up to them. Plus the fact they seem to chase you across the entire zone.The experiance debt - i actually like, but when you fall off trees (it's normal considering how fast the faes move and... how laggy a crowded city can get) or worse when your a wood elf and you fall 2 feet and die. You still get the debt. It's just so EQ..... i thought we had past the whole exp debt thing, only other MMO that does it now is CoH/CoV and i think i've only died twice in that game.The good -The games a lot of fun in parts, amount of content, nice players, incredible lore and story. Quests that actually make you want to further yourself.it's all let down - it's not fun. It's auto assault without the cars but more races than you can shake a stick at. Even if the character selection screen is bizare, are assassins rogues... no.. they're not. And of course being in europe according to our latest updates (after the login), the servers have been down since 27th April. Genius.Start living in 2007, new MMOs are coming out with half a brain between them - the new guild wars expansion looks swanky (even if GW isn't technically an MMO in the traditional sense) but neither is this at times because since it's zoned unlike WoW you can have different zones (darklight forest 1, 2 and 3) rather an all in one. </blockquote>~I agree a manual that is updated when the content is released is something very necessary, despite .pdf's & all that stuff. ~Hmm, as for the guards, usually if I just type in description (like 'Mender'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, I'm pointed in the right direction. Perhaps some widening of the search would help, because when it says 'type the name' the impression is you should already know the name of the person you're trying to find, which you likely don't know *unless* the name is in the quest journal. Yay to me for run-ons! ~Crafting could use a better explanation, IMO. The counters in particular - about 4 or 5 people I know that have recently joined or returned after a 'left @ launch' hiatus have specifically questioned about the "pictures that come up while crafting." I feel it takes too long, as well, but I don't enjoy WoW's method either. Crafting just isn't for me. ~Experience debt is fine, it doesn't take a lot of xp'ing to earn it back, even w/ combat XP off (like I am all the time). I'd much prefer that than running back to my corpse or summoning it. Additionally, the vitality bonus is there practically non-stop (bah!). ~I agree w/ the 1st reply in that you're gonna rub peeps the wrong way in your wording.

Josgar

05-26-2007, 01:44 PM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The game box set for the next expansion. For gawd sake INCLUDE THE MANUAL. I mean i bought the game plus 3 expansions - no manual, and the manual in pdf format was OUTDATED and didn't even mention the expansions. I had to literally download the manual from the site to read. Have the decency to include it in the next box set... please.The people on the newbie isles, in DLW, and in the nursery should be sufficient enough to to teach you how to play... but it would be nice to update those manuals. The guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the late 2004, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist.Im pretty sure you can type banker in the window and it will show you the nearest banker. Oh and there is a rumor going around that says that the map will be updated around the time ROK comes out. The ability to increase your stats (apprentice - adept etc) is good, except for the new player it's overwhelming, considering most abilites overplace other abilities you just upgraded. (you can tell - they share the same cooldown) Why in gawds name is that FUN?The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.Sometimes I would rather give my cat a bath than craft... but I still beleive that getting the individual items is a good part of the crafting system. For the lazy people, you can just buy the itmes off of the broker. Crafting is a job, because it makes your characters money. The threat levels are bizare, i actually managed to pull mobs 3 levels below me by passing them, but could dance with the mobs my same level without them glancing in my direction unless i walked right up to them. Plus the fact they seem to chase you across the entire zone.Are you playing EQ2? All mobs are leashed to a spot, and after a certain distance (usually short) the encounter breaks and they turn around and run home. Theres some weird bug though, where if a mob cannot see your feet, then they won't aggro you. (Like if you stand behind a rock they won't attack you even if over half your body is showing.) The experiance debt - i actually like, but when you fall off trees (it's normal considering how fast the faes move and... how laggy a crowded city can get) or worse when your a wood elf and you fall 2 feet and die. You still get the debt. It's just so EQ..... i thought we had past the whole exp debt thing, only other MMO that does it now is CoH/CoV and i think i've only died twice in that game.<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> we are past the exp debt thing... when EQ2 first came out it was 20% debt! The good -The games a lot of fun in parts, amount of content, nice players, incredible lore and story. Quests that actually make you want to further yourself.it's all let down - it's not fun. It's auto assault without the cars but more races than you can shake a stick at. Even if the character selection screen is bizare, are assassins rogues... no.. they're not. And of course being in europe according to our latest updates (after the login), the servers have been down since 27th April. Genius.Start living in 2007, new MMOs are coming out with half a brain between them - the new guild wars expansion looks swanky (even if GW isn't technically an MMO in the traditional sense) but neither is this at times because since it's zoned unlike WoW you can have different zones (darklight forest 1, 2 and 3) rather an all in one.The darklight 1,2,3 is because zones can really only hold 100 people at a time... it is rather annoying to me too, but if they didn't it would be mega lag. </blockquote>

tass

05-26-2007, 01:51 PM

you never used to need a manual with the original noob isle. They explained everything on the boat ride to the island and on the island. Then they changed it for some unknown reason. lol probably because some people found it to hard. Now you head there 5 min ur level 8 and ready to leave

Cele

05-26-2007, 04:03 PM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.</blockquote> [Removed for Content]!!!!! I literally laughed out loud when I read this. To the OP, I assure you, crafting is so simple compared to when the game first came out, it is downright scary.We used to have interdependacy ( I am sure I spelled that wrong) and refining abouta zillion products befor eyou could actually craft the final item. THAT was fun. Now, many of us feel it is dumbed down to nutton mashing.

Raveller

05-27-2007, 02:01 PM

SOE does not share game information with its paying customers. To obtain any information about this game, you will have to visit these forums, or better yet non-SOE websites dedicated to EQ2. It sucks, but that's just the way SOE has always treated its customers.

Raveller

05-27-2007, 02:02 PM

<cite>Celena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.</blockquote> [Removed for Content]!!!!! I literally laughed out loud when I read this. To the OP, I assure you, crafting is so simple compared to when the game first came out, it is downright scary.We used to have interdependacy ( I am sure I spelled that wrong) and refining abouta zillion products befor eyou could actually craft the final item. THAT was fun. Now, many of us feel it is dumbed down to nutton mashing.</blockquote>It was dumbed down from day one. Only players with IQs below 50 don't realize that.

Finora

05-28-2007, 12:39 PM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The game box set for the next expansion. For gawd sake INCLUDE THE MANUAL. I mean i bought the game plus 3 expansions - no manual, and the manual in pdf format was OUTDATED and didn't even mention the expansions. I had to literally download the manual from the site to read. Have the decency to include it in the next box set... please.Manual would be nice, not required, the game isn't that hard but it would be nice of them to include one.The guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the early 2003, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist.I find this guard guide system FAR more useful than any other game I've played (and i've played a lot). I'm betting you didn't reallize all you have to do to find a type of NPC is to type like banker, or city merchant or bowyer or whatever in the name field if you think WoW half arsed poc system is better.I personally didn't find the maps bad. I did however get EQ2 maps a year or 2 ago and they are quite nice.The ability to increase your stats (apprentice - adept etc) is good, except for the new player it's overwhelming, considering most abilites overplace other abilities you just upgraded. (you can tell - they share the same cooldown) Why in gawds name is that FUN?That's about the same in every game, the old abilities eventually get replaced by the new. In the first few levels it can come a bit quickly (like I think something you get at level 1 is replaced by level 7) after the newbie levels it goes to a 14 level cycle though. Pretty predictable.The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.I'm guessing you'd be REALLY surprised how many of us enjoy the EQ2 crafting system and have fun doing the crafting, harvesting etc. From what I saw (unless it changed from beta) the LOTRO system was very similar to WoW's.The threat levels are bizare, i actually managed to pull mobs 3 levels below me by passing them, but could dance with the mobs my same level without them glancing in my direction unless i walked right up to them. Plus the fact they seem to chase you across the entire zone.Different type of mob, different agro radius. No different from other games here as well. Some creatures just have a larger agro radius. Mobs also have a line of sight thing too it seems.The experiance debt - i actually like, but when you fall off trees (it's normal considering how fast the faes move and... how laggy a crowded city can get) or worse when your a wood elf and you fall 2 feet and die. You still get the debt. It's just so EQ..... i thought we had past the whole exp debt thing, only other MMO that does it now is CoH/CoV and i think i've only died twice in that game.Vanguard does. And EQ1 didn't have debt, they had actual xp loss. If you die you die. I don't see any reason it should be different because you fell out of a tree or if you get stepped on by a giant. Death is death.The good -The games a lot of fun in parts, amount of content, nice players, incredible lore and story. Quests that actually make you want to further yourself.it's all let down - it's not fun. It's auto assault without the cars but more races than you can shake a stick at. Even if the character selection screen is bizare, are assassins rogues... no.. they're not. I can assure you that little 'feature' was complained about long and hard when they first introduced the new char creation screen. But it wasn't changed /shrug.And of course being in europe according to our latest updates (after the login), the servers have been down since 27th April. Genius.Start living in 2007, new MMOs are coming out with half a brain between them - the new guild wars expansion looks swanky (even if GW isn't technically an MMO in the traditional sense) but neither is this at times because since it's zoned unlike WoW you can have different zones (darklight forest 1, 2 and 3) rather an all in one. Remember, this isn't WOW. Many MMO's are and have been zoned, not a new concept with EQ2. The reason WoW can do it so easily is that their graphics are really lower in quality (speaking specifically in system requirements not in how they actually look so don't get all defensive about it's artistic quality). </blockquote>

Image_Vain

05-28-2007, 12:53 PM

1 + 1 makes 2? HOLY COMPLICATED MATH BATMAN!<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Lilda

05-28-2007, 04:06 PM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The game box set for the next expansion. For gawd sake INCLUDE THE MANUAL. I mean i bought the game plus 3 expansions - no manual, and the manual in pdf format was OUTDATED and didn't even mention the expansions. I had to literally download the manual from the site to read. Have the decency to include it in the next box set... please.Agree The guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the early 2003, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist.Pretty sure this is already possible. Agree on the map. I use an addon for more usefulness. The ability to increase your stats (apprentice - adept etc) is good, except for the new player it's overwhelming, considering most abilites overplace other abilities you just upgraded. (you can tell - they share the same cooldown) Why in gawds name is that FUN?I agree with Lakaah, the only bad thing is the way it automatically puts abilities on your hotbar. The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.Crafting: I like needing raw materials (several) and fuels. What I can do without is the "interactive" button mashing. It was neato for about 2 minutes. Now it's just an annoyance that keeps me from being able to chat with friends while crafting. The threat levels are bizare, i actually managed to pull mobs 3 levels below me by passing them, but could dance with the mobs my same level without them glancing in my direction unless i walked right up to them. Plus the fact they seem to chase you across the entire zone.I have noticed odd threat levels myself. Some mobs seem to have a wider radius of agro than others, which alone makes sense. However, the bigger radius does not seem to correspond to level or anything else. It's not what I would call anywhere near game breaking, though. The experiance debt - i actually like, but when you fall off trees (it's normal considering how fast the faes move and... how laggy a crowded city can get) or worse when your a wood elf and you fall 2 feet and die. You still get the debt. It's just so EQ..... i thought we had past the whole exp debt thing, only other MMO that does it now is CoH/CoV and i think i've only died twice in that game.Exp penalties for dying is a good thing. The more pain free "death" is the more people play like idiots, it seems. The good -The games a lot of fun in parts, amount of content, nice players, incredible lore and story. Quests that actually make you want to further yourself.it's all let down - it's not fun. It's auto assault without the cars but more races than you can shake a stick at. Even if the character selection screen is bizare, are assassins rogues... no.. they're not. And of course being in europe according to our latest updates (after the login), the servers have been down since 27th April. Genius.Start living in 2007, new MMOs are coming out with half a brain between them - the new guild wars expansion looks swanky (even if GW isn't technically an MMO in the traditional sense) but neither is this at times because since it's zoned unlike WoW you can have different zones (darklight forest 1, 2 and 3) rather an all in one. </blockquote>

Elk

05-28-2007, 04:19 PM

And... all dorfs are stupid.

Teircen

05-28-2007, 04:34 PM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.</blockquote> It's a good idea to try and aviod guessing what other people will like. I know a lot of people who liked even the older harder crafting implementaitons on EQ2 and some left because they feel it's been oversimplified already.As has been posted a couple other times the crafting system at launch was significantly more complex and personally I liked it. The original crafting system required nearly every crafting class to work with others to make pretty much anything. Within days I actually was part of a community of people I wouldn't otherwise have met, talked with, or worked with in a game simply because we needed each other to finsh crafting.Then it was simplified... and simplified again.Does the current system take work? yes. Does it seem slow and sometimes cumbersome to some people, of course. You want easy? Go play Warcraft. Crafting means virtually nothing there. You just harvest all day (like nearly any other system with crafting) and then you click a button and combine as many items as you want. I played WoW for a while and I was sorely unimpressed with crafting. I'd collect a lot, click combine, walk away for 5 minute and come back several skill levels better with no effort. I was one of the first high level WoW engineers on my server but it meant nothing. Now playing EQ2 my level 70 crafting means something.In fact before the last simplification or two for crafting I used to make lots of money on crafting. I still make a fair bit but before if you wanted high level items you either went to someone actually worked at it (or someone who botted it). If I wanted high end armor I had to either work at playing to be big enough to raid for it or pay large sums of money for it. Why NOT have a crafting system that requires actual work to make it worth the reward? The more SOE has simplified crafting the less it means, the more people have high end crafters, and the less those who actually worked at it make. It's alot like when they simplify encounters and increase drop rates for a raid mob and the prices come down. About the only real argument I can see making is should everyone have access to all the content in the game? I think it comes down to either personal opinion or what they want to do for the sake of improving their market share of the MMO playerbase. On a personal level I don't think everyone should have access to everything easily. Aside from value assigned by the game itself items only have value in as much as you have to work for them. Need proof, compare the price of any rare harvest ? item to the price of common drop items of comparable level.

Drewx

05-28-2007, 06:01 PM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The game box set for the next expansion. For gawd sake INCLUDE THE MANUAL. I mean i bought the game plus 3 expansions - no manual, and the manual in pdf format was OUTDATED and didn't even mention the expansions. I had to literally download the manual from the site to read. Have the decency to include it in the next box set... please.I won't lie...this has bothered me for all the expansions. All games have a manual, and considering that alot of the expansions have something to try and pull new players in...some new to MMOs period...not having a manual is bad news bear.The guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the early 2003, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist.Eh...if you go to a guard and type: Broker, Banker, etc they will point you to them.The ability to increase your stats (apprentice - adept etc) is good, except for the new player it's overwhelming, considering most abilites overplace other abilities you just upgraded. (you can tell - they share the same cooldown) Why in gawds name is that FUN?Its not overwhelming...its pretty good to be honest. It allows you to increase your strength and battle skill. True most people just go for an adept version, but considering some spells don't update until many levels later (after lvl 20 anyways) being able to update them and make them strong sure helps. Also it makes you different from another player.The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW.COMPLICATED?! By the gods! When this game launched to make anything took 3 to 4 to even 5 crafting sessions/encounters. Hell I was a alchemist when the game started (any old players from back then probably know my pain, hearing I was an alchemist) in order to make an Apprentice III I had to make a lesser spell, and an ink, to make an ink I had to refine roots and various other items, then combine those refines into an item to combine with a lesser spell...then do a good job with the counter to make an Apprentice III.All there is to crafting now is the encounter, let me guess pushing a button is complicated too? I think it's awesome, it pretty much makes sure that bots can't sit in a tradeskill instance and chain craft for hours and flood the market with an item.The threat levels are bizare, i actually managed to pull mobs 3 levels below me by passing them, but could dance with the mobs my same level without them glancing in my direction unless i walked right up to them. Plus the fact they seem to chase you across the entire zone.They onyl hase you across an entire zone if you keep rooting, snaring, attacking them as you run. otherwise they give up fast. Aggro wise it depends on the mobs, some mobs don't see well, others don't see behind there back! GOD FORBID no eyes in the back of the head! Some wil lhear you even. For the mostp art aggro is easy unless ou shoot a social mob and pull the whole camp.The experiance debt - i actually like, but when you fall off trees (it's normal considering how fast the faes move and... how laggy a crowded city can get) or worse when your a wood elf and you fall 2 feet and die. You still get the debt. It's just so EQ..... i thought we had past the whole exp debt thing, only other MMO that does it now is CoH/CoV and i think i've only died twice in that game.Debt is nothing now. When thegame launched, you took an armor durability hit, 20% xp debt (no vitality to help it dry up), group xp debt, and soul shards. Without a soul shard you were crippled stat wise by like 20%, and if you didn't retrieve the shard you had to wait 24 hrs for it to auto return. Hell you could have up to 8 shards scattered across the world. Thats a big stat penalty. Having no death penalty makes the game like WoW, where you honestly ouldn't give two squirrel farts about dieing. "OMG I died! Big deal I'll respawn." *respawns* Atleast having some debt ives you some reason to want to avoid death!The good -The games a lot of fun in parts, amount of content, nice players, incredible lore and story. Quests that actually make you want to further yourself.Agreed.it's all let down - it's not fun. It's auto assault without the cars but more races than you can shake a stick at. Even if the character selection screen is bizare, are assassins rogues... no.. they're not. And of course being in europe according to our latest updates (after the login), the servers have been down since 27th April. Genius.Agreed...I have no idea what is up with our server status page...Start living in 2007, new MMOs are coming out with half a brain between them - the new guild wars expansion looks swanky (even if GW isn't technically an MMO in the traditional sense) but neither is this at times because since it's zoned unlike WoW you can have different zones (darklight forest 1, 2 and 3) rather an all in one. WoW doesn't require a strong pc to play, its graphics are very basic. Which seriously there is nothing wrong with. I liked WoWs graphics, but one of the things EQ II prides itself on is its graphics. i have not seen many other MMOs that have armor as detailed as EQ II, down the the loops of chain in chainmail EQ II has very destinct sleek and detailed armor and graphics Hell set your game up a few notches and you can see individual strands of Gnoll fur waving in the air as they lunge at you, you can see the froth building up in a wargs mouth as it oozes over its lips and to the floor below. WoW doesn't focus on making every peice of armor look glorious. I remember when i set eq II on max, its like a CG game, thus having alot of character and partical effects in one area equals lag. Hell wow suffers lag in the main cities with tons of characters gathered around.So saying everyone shold be in one zone is crazy. Im sure you've been in a raid of 4 groups...thats some crazy lag...so imagine being in a zone with 200-400 other people. Qeynos Harbor comes to mind suddenly...</blockquote>

Griffinhart

05-29-2007, 12:12 PM

<cite>deplorable wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bad: The game box set for the next expansion. For gawd sake INCLUDE THE MANUAL. I mean i bought the game plus 3 expansions - no manual, and the manual in pdf format was OUTDATED and didn't even mention the expansions. I had to literally download the manual from the site to read. Have the decency to include it in the next box set... please. I agree to a point. But, in defense of SOE, the game has changed dramatically since it was released. Most manuals would be out of date anyway. It's the nature of the beast. Fortunately, EQ2 has a great tutorial system in place for new characters which works pretty well. The guards; it's nice to type in an NPC name and be told where to go. But since you know this is 2007 and not the early 2003, it'd be nice to have an option to ask the guard where the nearest BANKER or A banker is. We won't even talk about the map system.. i mean it looks awful and about as helpful as a crosseyed dentist. I agree that you should be able to ask the guards questions like where the banker is. But, the map system isn't that bad. It's even better if you use EQ2Maps, which is very, very good. The ability to increase your stats (apprentice - adept etc) is good, except for the new player it's overwhelming, considering most abilites overplace other abilities you just upgraded. (you can tell - they share the same cooldown) Why in gawds name is that FUN? I personally like the complexity of the system. But, I can see where it would be a bit overwhelming to a new player. The crafting is overly complicated, i doubt even the RP player enjoys it "yeah i need to make some tin armour, gotta get some loam, a few branches, some coal and a dozen other seperate materials before i start"; it's a game.. it's not an actual JOB ! The LOTOR system (although itemisation needs balancing) seems to work a lot better, especially away from the really simplified WoW. I think the EQ2 crafting system is pretty great right now. They already made it a lot easier than before. Not so long ago you had to do many more combinds for a finished project. For a back pack you needed buckles which was created seperately, finished leather, which was another recipe, plus a few more componants. Now you just need the raw materials. The threat levels are bizare, i actually managed to pull mobs 3 levels below me by passing them, but could dance with the mobs my same level without them glancing in my direction unless i walked right up to them. Plus the fact they seem to chase you across the entire zone. Threat isn't that complex, it's pretty similar to EQ1. Some mobs will attack you on sight, some will not. It depends on how they con to you. It's simply because some mobs are inherently hostile while some are not. Others become hostile/friendly depending on faction. Mobs will not chase you across the entire zone unless you have engaged in combat. They will lose interest in a short time. If you are running after fighting you need to /yell to break the combat. They will then break off after a short persuit. The experiance debt - i actually like, but when you fall off trees (it's normal considering how fast the faes move and... how laggy a crowded city can get) or worse when your a wood elf and you fall 2 feet and die. You still get the debt. It's just so EQ..... i thought we had past the whole exp debt thing, only other MMO that does it now is CoH/CoV and i think i've only died twice in that game. EXP dept is actually relatively new. Older generations of these games involved EXP loss w/ the ability to lose your level, Spawning naked at your bind point and having to run to where you died to collect your belongings. EXP debt actually doesn't mean a whole lot. It's a minor sting at best. It's trivial at lower levels. It only takes a kill or two to get rid of it 50 or below. It also goes away on its own over time when you are logged out. The good -The games a lot of fun in parts, amount of content, nice players, incredible lore and story. Quests that actually make you want to further yourself. it's all let down - it's not fun. It's auto assault without the cars but more races than you can shake a stick at. Even if the character selection screen is bizare, are assassins rogues... no.. they're not. Assasins are not rogues. They are scouts and predators. The rogues are Brigands and Swashbucklers. I'm not sure what you mean about the character selection screen being bizzare though. And of course being in europe according to our latest updates (after the login), the servers have been down since 27th April. Genius.I agree that they need to update that screen more timely. It never seems to be correct. Start living in 2007, new MMOs are coming out with half a brain between them - the new guild wars expansion looks swanky (even if GW isn't technically an MMO in the traditional sense) but neither is this at times because since it's zoned unlike WoW you can have different zones (darklight forest 1, 2 and 3) rather an all in one. Zones like Darklight have multiple instances because of demand. The zone would just be too laggy and over crowded if they didn't do that after 100+ people are in the zone. It would also really bring most peoples computers to their knees if they didn't. WoW can handle it a bit better because it's graphical requirements are a lot lower than EQ2. Btw, EQ2 and WoW are only a couple months apart in age. </blockquote>