Not all "Raiders" are what you stereotype

[smb10041972]

<p>Ya know I have read a ton of posts on here about people who quite simply hate raiders but have never really raided.  Let me assure all you non-raiders out there that there are MANY MANY raiding guilds out there that are civil, respectful and mature.  The problem is, those guilds dont come here to flame or complain, they dont spam people in level chat and they dont throw tantrums if they dont get their way.</p><p>I am in a guild that has 35 real life people.  We have a total of 76 toons that are all level 70.  We raid 4-5 nights a week, from 8:30 EST til about 12:00ish (give or take an hour).  Now, of those 35 people I have known about 18 of them for over 6 months.  We talk on Ventrillo every night and have got to know each other well.  We have 5 married couples that play, 3 other females and the rest males.  The average age is about 30.  Our youngest is 18 while the oldest is 58. </p><p>We are all basically looking for the same thing : A Challenge.  Thats pretty much it.  We don't bother anyone else.  We form our raid up, go into raid zones and have fun.</p><p>I started playing EQ1 and I never raided once.  I kind of assumed all raiders were unemployed 20 year olds with bad attitudes that just screamed at each other.  So when I came to EQ2 I had NO intention of raiding.  After hitting 70 I logged on 4-5 nights a week for a couple hours looking for groups...occasionally getting a decent instance group.  It got old.  No real challenge, hard to find a good group every night and hard to communicate.  So I grouped with this 70 Druid who was geared AMAZING, was an incredible healer and was the nicest person I had met.  She asked me if I was interested in raiding and I was like "No freakin way, that is just not my style."  but she talked me into giving it a try.  What I saw was 24 people all working together to accomplish a goal, helping each other and having a BLAST.  I havent looked back since.</p><p>I am employed, I am a dentist in southern Florida.  I have 2 kids, 16 and 14.   I own a beutiful home in a nice neighborhood.... why am I telling you this?  Because I met about 5 people from my guild and they were all adults and all relatively successful career people.  </p><p>My point is this : Not every raider comes here calling everyone names and demanding more raid zoned and less group content.  The majority of us are quiet and keep to our guilds.  The problem is, the ones that do come here and complain go way out of line and that puts us in a bad light.  For those of you that do not raid and are getting bored with the content you are seeing let me make a few suggestion.</p><p>1.  Find a good raid guild and ask them to come along for a raid to see if you like it.</p><p>2  Make sure it is NOT an open raid for anyone and everyone.</p><p>3.  Make sure the guild is somewhat established. </p><p>4.  Make sure the raid leader is skilled and communicates well.</p><p>5.  Make sure you know exactly what your "job" is.</p><p>I know not everyone can spend 4-5 nights a week+ raiding for 3-6 hours a night, but if you get some extra time give it a shot.  A lot of guilds allow casual raiders.  Raiding is a very rewarding experience that really can test your skill level, teamwork, patience and leadership abilities.  </p><p>Good luck!</p>

[Valdaglerion]

Nicely put. It's almost a shame you didnt include the name of your server and guild. That was one of the best guild recruiting messages I have seen, makes me want to hang our with your guild.

[jagermonsta]

Not sure why it was necessary to post that but... great for you! <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[McDohl]

Give me a friendly raider/raider-guild that is kind and helpful, and I'll recommend them to anyone I know that raids. Give me one that spouts obsenities, employs cheep tactics to steal named from other raids already there waiting, and does all they can to disrupt RPing, then the only opinion of raiding I'll have is that they're jerks. Don't get me wrong, there's going to be quite a few good mannered raiders around, but go to any server and you'll come into contact with at least one Jerk-of-all-jerks raiding guild. It's all about who's the most vocal.

[smb10041972]

I posted this because I have seen a lot of posts that hate Raiders.  They are very cruel and assumptive.  I just want those people to know that those type of people that they think they know are the minority in my findings.

[phoenixshard]

Its unfortunate, but the ones that leave the lasting impressions in the long run are the obnoxious ones.  That goes for everything though, it seems.

[Valdaglerion]

<p>Well, I think it goes both ways. I remember the players in game that are as much an enjoyment as the ones who are a pain. </p><p>Unfortunately, most people dont come to the forums to talk about the good things. Its a place to talk about the things that arent working or can be improved on. The only "good stuff and thanks" are the responses after the thing, item, idea, etc originally complained about is fixed /shrug</p>

[TheSource123]

How many Bruisers/Monks you got? lol

[Foretold]

<cite>TheSource123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>How many Bruisers/Monks you got? lol </blockquote><p> Heheheheehehehehehehehheh</p><p> *sniff*</p>

[kenm]

Liana@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Give me one that spouts obsenities, <b>employs cheep tactics to steal named from other raids already there waiting</b>, and does all they can to disrupt RPing, then the only opinion of raiding I'll have is that they're jerks. </blockquote> They're called contested mobs for a reason.

[TheSource123]

Kenman@Najena wrote: <blockquote>Liana@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Give me one that spouts obsenities, <b>employs cheep tactics to steal named from other raids already there waiting</b>, and does all they can to disrupt RPing, then the only opinion of raiding I'll have is that they're jerks. </blockquote> They're called contested mobs for a reason. </blockquote>QFT

[McDohl]

Kenman@Najena wrote: <blockquote>Liana@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Give me one that spouts obsenities, <b>employs cheep tactics to steal named from other raids already there waiting</b>, and does all they can to disrupt RPing, then the only opinion of raiding I'll have is that they're jerks. </blockquote> They're called contested mobs for a reason. </blockquote> Ah yes.. So next time we see a level 70 run and attack a level 50 epic while we're just about to get it ourselves, and then drags it over us in an attempt to --by himself-- make the epic AoE us to death while his guild runs from all corners of thr world to wait for our death.. At least we know it's a perfectly allowed and respectible move, and not cheap as 'eck griefing.. Thanks ^^.

[miaeih]

So, where exactly are these guilds at?  Yes, would have been helpful if server and guild was listed. I'm on a PVP server and almost everyone seems to fit that stereotype whether or not they raid. I've been on PVE servers too and the only people that I've come across who do not fit that stereotype play very little. Make me want to quit sometimes, too bad I have no life. I'd move servers for a nicer environment.

[JohnDoe058]

<p>Finally, a regular raider who came to post something OTHER than "the game should cater to us!  Leave the level cap at 70, so we can stay on top!!!"</p><p>I also consistently raid 5 times a week (or more), and find it to be simply shameful how many raiders seem to beleive that the game should be custom-made to them.  Other people, with other playstyles, do exist.  And it's high time that they be acknowledged by the "leet" community.</p><p>Despite being a serious raider, I beleive that the game should NOT center around raiding, or gear for that matter.  That's a very 1-dimensional gameplay style, and would be very very boing IMO.</p>

[kenm]

Liana@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Kenman@Najena wrote: <blockquote>Liana@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Give me one that spouts obsenities, <b>employs cheep tactics to steal named from other raids already there waiting</b>, and does all they can to disrupt RPing, then the only opinion of raiding I'll have is that they're jerks. </blockquote> They're called contested mobs for a reason. </blockquote> Ah yes.. So next time we see a level 70 run and attack a level 50 epic while we're just about to get it ourselves, and then drags it over us in an attempt to --by himself-- make the epic AoE us to death while his guild runs from all corners of thr world to wait for our death.. At least we know it's a perfectly allowed and respectible move, and not cheap as 'eck griefing.. Thanks ^^. </blockquote>For one, a person soloing an epic mob is most certainly totally unrelated to raiding.  No raiders give a rats [Removed for Content] about t5 contesteds let alone gray ones. For two, an engaged mob won't AOE other raids.  Heck, they don't even AOE their own raid as long as people don't engage it.  The situation you present is only possible under one of two conditions: 1. The mob was aggroed via KOS, which a level 70 can not do to a t5 raid mob unmentored.  or 2. The mob was pulled, yelled off, and then the t5 raid started attacking it afterwards. Lastly, I was just pointing out that it's 100% impossible to steal a named in this game.  Contested mobs come down to who can pull it and kill it first, they don't belong to anyone!

[Asif]

<p>Very well put message <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Our guild is just starting to raid as we get bigger and have more 70's and i am having a blast with it .</p><p>I have not really raided to much but man i can see where the excitment is in it dont think we will be doing Emerald halls tho its just out of our league.</p><p>But anyway my hat goes off to the hardcore raiders i dont think we could do that all the time,but we have learned alot from reading on just how they do it.</p><p>But to peps who bash raiders without ever trying it dont know what they are missing it can be one heck of a rush !!!</p>

[Twoboxer2]

<cite>Asif wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Very well put message <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Our guild is just starting to raid as we get bigger and have more 70's and i am having a blast with it .</p><p>I have not really raided to much but man i can see where the excitment is in it dont think we will be doing Emerald halls tho its just out of our league.</p><p>But anyway my hat goes off to the hardcore raiders i dont think we could do that all the time,but we have learned alot from reading on just how they do it.</p><p>But to peps who bash raiders without ever trying it dont know what they are missing it can be one heck of a rush !!!</p></blockquote><p>Equally well put lol.</p><p>A lot of us raiders are simply players who have grown alongside people we like to compete with (like any team sport), found a game we like to compete against, and have the time to do it. At some point the base content isn't challenging or interesting, and so a different game - or raiding - is just a natural progression . . . as you have found.</p><p>We're on the PvE servers because we don't enjoy the PvP environment, and aren't interested in direct competition against other players. More like golf than paintball lol.</p><p>And we raiders have no monopoly on griefers, loudmouths, and corpse-humpers. They are *everywhere* and *anywhere*.</p><p>But there are some inherent aspects of raiding that are turn-offs for people. </p><p>There's a lot to learn about 4-group contests that 1-grouping doesn't teach you. Raids also expose weaknesses that people never knew they had. Finally, there's often no place to hide - the 500 dps Level 70 Swashbuckler will quickly learn that 1500 DPS is not only possible, but "necessary". </p><p>Many people do not want to be challenged in those ways, and so raiding probably isn't for them.</p><p>Then there's the planning and discipline. Grouping, you pretty much do what you want, how you want to do it. In raids, you do as you are assigned, when it is necessary to do it. It can take time to plan and hand out assignments, and some people just get bored not pushing buttons. </p><p>Many people do not want to be challenged in those ways, and so raiding probably isn't for them.</p><p>When you have just lost a fight with D'Morte that you waited a week to get back to (lock-out), spent 10 minutes carefully killing according to the requirements of the script, and then lose the fight because someone fired an AE and blew up a coffin (/raises hand) . . . well, you can expect there will be some investigation of the cause, 23 disappointed people and 1 red face . . . how the 24 people react is crucial.  Finally, the unpaid social directors (ie, Raid Leaders) are not always the most patient and diplomatic. Even the best of them have limits to their patience, and can make mistakes.</p><p>Many people do not want to be challenged in those ways, and so raiding probably isn't for them.</p><p>Raiding is a team sport; weaknesses need to be determined and strengthened; misteaks need to be eliminated <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> . . . many people do not want to be challenged in those ways, and so raiding is probably not for them.</p><p>The key is to find 24+ people who can take the good with the bad and revel in the progress they make together. </p><p>Not always easy to find.</p>