Why oh why.. Final Fantasy swords on Dreadguards :( [Archive]

Lasai

05-24-2007, 10:37 PM

One of the things I really love about this game is the visual style. I hope this does not indicate a trend towards the oversized, overdone, retardedly cartoonish elements prevalent in other games.Quite frankly it ruined Neriak for me, I don't want to see that horrid crap every time I pass a guard. It is too jarring, so much looks so nice, and then I see a group of guards holding "Clouds" sword and the contrast is just too much. Unoriginal, tired anime cliche's are not good art. Just making something huge does NOT make it "kewl".How soon before those become loot drops. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.and how long after that do we get to hear "wtb flaming enchant for sword PST".Sad. Particularly sad as this is the so-called "Asian/Anime" look, despite the fact that Asia developed some of the most graceful, interesting and beautiful edged weaponry ever made.Please stay unique.

Skua

05-24-2007, 10:46 PM

Lasai

05-24-2007, 10:57 PM

<cite>SkuaII wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>One of the things I really love about this game is the visual style. I hope this does not indicate a trend towards the oversized, overdone, retardedly cartoonish elements prevalent in other games.Quite frankly it ruined Neriak for me, I don't want to see that horrid crap every time I pass a guard.How soon before those become loot drops. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.and how long after that do we get to hear "wtb flaming enchant for sword PST".sad. Please stay unique. </blockquote> some ppl like that swords , i love them ^^ 2h claymore ? awesome!!!! we play the game and raid or quest to get a cool armor / weapon... i would love to "enchant" my staffs or swords to get a cool flaming effect or a dark effect .... i would love to see more weapon types....4 example the little katanas (dunno the real name) if u played ninja in ffxi u will know the weapons that i am talking about... did u see some T8 bows? oh and any1 have some screenshot of dreadguards? =s didnt see neriak yet (LAG no thx).... </blockquote> Katana are elegant and cool, and there are some in game. A 200 lb slab of a chunky blade with a teeny hilt stuck on it as an afterthought is not.Cool is one thing. Oversized spikes, oversized weapons, flaming effects and WOW junk are just the hackneyed old way to emphasize something without having to come up with an original idea or interesting art.

TheSource123

05-24-2007, 11:26 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>One of the things I really love about this game is the visual style. I hope this does not indicate a trend towards the oversized, overdone, retardedly cartoonish elements prevalent in other games.Quite frankly it ruined Neriak for me, I don't want to see that horrid crap every time I pass a guard. It is too jarring, so much looks so nice, and then I see a group of guards holding "Clouds" sword and the contrast is just too much. Unoriginal, tired anime cliche's are not good art. Just making something huge does NOT make it "kewl".How soon before those become loot drops. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.and how long after that do we get to hear "wtb flaming enchant for sword PST".Sad. Particularly sad as this is the so-called "Asian/Anime" look, despite the fact that Asia developed some of the most graceful, interesting and beautiful edged weaponry ever made.Please stay unique. </blockquote>I could never understand the whole big sword thing myself, either. On paper it looks mildly intriguing, but it also destroys any sense of an actual "weapon" since such a huge blade would be completely ineffective and dumb. I think the reason it has become popular is because if you make the aspects of the sword very, LARGE, it makes the weapon easier to observe and thus making it look...better? I dunno about some people but a small, subtly curved weapon w/ designs on it looks much better to me. The problem is that some games don't know which side to lean to, the borrow things from the realism bin and the fantasy bin. Lineage 2 knows exactly where it's at, with armor that offers about 20% body covering and large flaming swords that probably weigh about 250 pounds, and yet you can swing them at the same speed as a normal sword (which I think looks very dumb) Everquest 2 has simple yet, decent enough, weapons & armor that look realistic to a degree. And I do agree that the "LOL ANIMEZ" look seems to betray actual Asian weapons, which are small, effective, and elegant.

DiatribeEQ

05-25-2007, 12:28 AM

Adding in *anything* that helps in giving us a variety of new looks (not just slight variations on the old) is what I'm 100% in support of. Perhaps adding in other "Looks and Styles from other Games" is something to help. Besides....who are you to complain? Would you have been just as quick to complain about the "Same Old, Same Old" if nothing new had been added? I bet you would've....at least eventually.

Zyphe

05-25-2007, 02:01 AM

Cusashorn

05-25-2007, 02:19 AM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>I see a group of guards holding "Clouds" sword</blockquote> <img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/DRCEQ2/Cromartiefacepalm.jpg" border="0">It's topics like these that makes me lose faith in humanity.First off, they're called Buster Swords. 2nd: Cloud didn't invent the style. Actual human beings in the middle ages did. 3rd: Neriak was designed by SOGA studios in Taiwan. Dont like it? Dont play any characters in that area of the game. Avoid Neriak altogether or deal with it.

Lasai

05-25-2007, 02:55 AM

Wow, Cusahorn, didn't expect the vitriol from our very own smug, self rightious Lore forum troll.Put up or shut up. Post a reference to a human wielding, using or carrying a sword of the mammoth Size, shape and scale of the "Buster" Sword in the Medieval era. Perhaps I missed the Busternian Empire in world history.Pardon me for not knowing its actual name. Pardon me for not having an Anime Sig, or instant access to anime images for illustrative trolling. I am positive now the Human Race IS in danger from lack of Anime Knowledge, thanks for pointing that out to me.And, in fact, I plan to not live in or use the zone, thanks.

Zyphe

05-25-2007, 05:52 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>I see a group of guards holding "Clouds" sword</blockquote> First off, they're called Buster Swords. 2nd: Cloud didn't invent the style. Actual human beings in the middle ages did. 3rd: Neriak was designed by SOGA studios in Taiwan. Dont like it? Dont play any characters in that area of the game. Avoid Neriak altogether or deal with it.</blockquote> 4th: Cancel subscription

MadTexan3

05-25-2007, 06:06 AM

So long as they don't bring in gunblades I can live with what they have now.

adolf102

05-25-2007, 08:21 AM

Current armor, weapon models skins are dull. And ...dull. It has been mentioned countless times on Look&Feel forum. And as said above anything that adds to variety is highly welcome.

Tid

05-25-2007, 08:25 AM

<cite>adolf102 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Current armor, weapon models skins are dull. And ...dull. It has been mentioned countless times on Look&Feel forum. And as said above anything that adds to variety is highly welcome. </blockquote>/Agree, More big [Removed for Content] weapons are more than welcome. Playing a 20 stone tank in the phattest armour and Im weilding a stick with an small axe head on it.......

MysidiaDrakkenbane

05-25-2007, 08:47 AM

"Why oh why.. Final Fantasy swords" Because FF is a hugely successful series, whether you personally like it or not. And since this game borrows from other concepts and ideas, it was bound to happen. If you don't like it, you don't have to stick around in that particular area.

sayitaintso

05-25-2007, 08:58 AM

liveja

05-25-2007, 10:00 AM

<cite>sayitaintso wrote:</cite><blockquote>HMMM WoW has swords like this too </blockquote>Which is part of the problem he suggested.The score is 7 million to 2.I'd like to make something clear: that while I don't care for the ginormous swords, their presence doesn't "ruin" Neriak for me. There's far too much cool stuff going on in Neriak for me to worry about one little detail, & I don't pay much attention to useless NPCs anyway.I just didn't & don't care for them.

Polywogus

05-25-2007, 10:04 AM

<cite>adolf102 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Current armor, weapon models skins are dull. And ...dull. It has been mentioned countless times on Look&Feel forum. And as said above anything that adds to variety is highly welcome. </blockquote> Pretty much sums it up right there. I also enjoy SOGA. Clearly I am the devil >=)

jagermonsta

05-25-2007, 10:10 AM

7 million to 3.

Ealthina

05-25-2007, 10:10 AM

I too support the OP idea.

NiteWolfe

05-25-2007, 10:37 AM

Actually i think your over doing the weight guess. Also very large swords were actually used and did not wieght as much as you may think they did. <a href="http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html</a> That site has some very fine specs on actual swords and some very nice photos showing the size in relation to a real person. Granted none are as wide as those i seen on the guards but even then i would put those at maybe 15 to 20 pounds if doing a really life guess at the weight. Not the was it 250 pounds some one said here?. Personally add me to the list of those who like this look.

Allisia

05-25-2007, 10:41 AM

7 million to 4. They look utterly absurd.

liveja

05-25-2007, 10:42 AM

<cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote> Also very large swords were actually used and did not wieght as much as you may think they did. </blockquote>The length doesn't bother me; it's the width, which IMO just looks lame.Historically, claymores & flamberges were as much as 6' long, but I've never seen one with a blade 4-5 hands wide.

Guy De Alsace

05-25-2007, 10:53 AM

Sadly EQ2 is going the sheep way and trying to be anime when it clearly had its own distinctive style on release. The stupid huge steel girders the Dreadguards are using look totally out of place with the nice EQ2 fitting armour the guys are wearing. Its like someone stapled an aircraft wing to their backs. Its just totally absurd.The pseudo-anime Fae with unblinking, expressionless, plastic eyes and plastic hair are just so lame. I spent about an hour in the Isle of Maara before the attack of the plastic people from mars really started to grate.They gave us a choice with SOGA. Now we're getting it rammed down our throats. Ugh.

phoenixshard

05-25-2007, 10:58 AM

<cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote> Actually i think your over doing the weight guess. Also very large swords were actually used and did not wieght as much as you may think they did. <a href="http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html</a> That site has some very fine specs on actual swords and some very nice photos showing the size in relation to a real person. Granted none are as wide as those i seen on the guards but even then i would put those at maybe 15 to 20 pounds if doing a really life guess at the weight. Not the was it 250 pounds some one said here?. Personally add me to the list of those who like this look. </blockquote>I like the look too, but judging from the formula that the page you put up says, a sword like Cloud used (somebody earlier called it the Buster Sword, that was the name of it in FF VII, there is no historical weapon like that), it would weigh close to at least 35-40 pounds, far heavier than anyone would be able to wield with any effectiveness.

Besual

05-25-2007, 10:58 AM

I'm against the anime style of weapons / armor in EQ2. They might fit into WoW or some anime movies but not into EQ2. And the whole SOGA models are ugly as hell. When I look at the hair styles I'm not sure if 2hours in RL would be enough to get the hair styled in such way. I had a beer yesterday (well, actualy it was more then one and I got drunken enough) and opened the character creation screen and click on the Arasai. But when I scrolled through the options and saw the eyes / hair styles... I can't drink enough alcohol to get drunken to roll one for real.

trainzebra

05-25-2007, 11:03 AM

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Historically, claymores & flamberges were as much as 6' long, but I've never seen one with a blade 4-5 hands wide. </blockquote>You've never seen a walking frog summon a giant rock man and go rampaging through a giant beehive of bizarre woman bees while throwing fire all the way either, but that doesn't seem to bother you <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> To be on topic I'd welcome anything to add some variety to the look of the game. Some may like it, but for me seeing armor and weapons with the same shape but a slightly different texture just gets old after a while. It doesn't necessarily have to be over the top, but things like the eye in the Coercer class hat add a ton of flavor to what would otherwise be a bland item.

Guy De Alsace

05-25-2007, 11:06 AM

The crazy thing is the amount of detail on those dreadguards is really impressive with the new class helm graphics and other touches. And then they put a blank steel plate on the back with no colour coordination or link to the guys using them whatsoever. At least the completely atrociously bad bugbears had outsize swords that fitted the stone-age culture look. In this the Dreadguards seem to have got some old steel trays from ebay and randomly flattened them for weapons. So so ugly. If they had used the two handed katana model and coloured it blue, purple and black now THAT would have fitted. Come on guys. Do better.

liveja

05-25-2007, 11:08 AM

<cite>trainzebra wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Historically, claymores & flamberges were as much as 6' long, but I've never seen one with a blade 4-5 hands wide. </blockquote>You've never seen a walking frog summon a giant rock man and go rampaging through a giant beehive of bizarre woman bees while throwing fire all the way either, but that doesn't seem to bother you <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>No, I've never seen those things, but I do think the "it's magik!" explanation is tired & over-used.I agree with the variety thing, tho. So why couldn't the Dreadguards be carrying two-handed swords with wavy, kris-like blades? They even existed in real life; lots of flamberges, for example, had such blades. IMO, that would have looked much more sinister, elegant, & cool than something that looks like it was ripped out of a console game.

Dutchgrrl

05-25-2007, 11:11 AM

Guy De Alsace wrote: <blockquote>Sadly EQ2 is going the sheep way and trying to be anime when it clearly had its own distinctive style on release. The stupid huge steel girders the Dreadguards are using look totally out of place with the nice EQ2 fitting armour the guys are wearing. Its like someone stapled an aircraft wing to their backs. Its just totally absurd.The pseudo-anime Fae with unblinking, expressionless, plastic eyes and plastic hair are just so lame. I spent about an hour in the Isle of Maara before the attack of the plastic people from mars really started to grate.They gave us a choice with SOGA. Now we're getting it rammed down our throats. Ugh.</blockquote> If you look at the size of the game, the few minor items you take issue with are less than a single drop of water in an ocean...How can something be "pseudo-anime" when anime is not a rigidly defined style and encompasses artistic styles that range from ray trace to crayon?!I was in a bookstore once and this woman came in and asked the clerk for a book on valuation of African Art. I made the comment that there is no such thing as African Art and the woman called me a racist [Removed for Content] - johnny on the spot, did not care to understand what I was talking about, just unloaded a yard of hostility on me. When she was done, I rolled up to her and looked up in to her eyes and said - there are more than 500 seperate and distinct cultures in the history of the continent of Africa, some of which lived and died before that name was ever applied to that region. Civilization originated there, several times, and grouping all of the varied art and art styles together is like saying that anything with paint on it is Italian Art.Now let me see if I understand YOU correctly... EQ2 is eating grass and being herded by low slung noisy but very intelligent dogs so that it does not eat the grass in a particular area down to the roots and kill it?Kat

Lasai

05-25-2007, 11:17 AM

<cite>sayitaintso wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>One of the things I really love about this game is the visual style. I hope this does not indicate a trend towards the oversized, overdone, retardedly cartoonish elements prevalent in other games.Quite frankly it ruined Neriak for me, I don't want to see that horrid crap every time I pass a guard. It is too jarring, so much looks so nice, and then I see a group of guards holding "Clouds" sword and the contrast is just too much. Unoriginal, tired anime cliche's are not good art. Just making something huge does NOT make it "kewl".How soon before those become loot drops. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.and how long after that do we get to hear "wtb flaming enchant for sword PST".Sad. Particularly sad as this is the so-called "Asian/Anime" look, despite the fact that Asia developed some of the most graceful, interesting and beautiful edged weaponry ever made.Please stay unique. </blockquote>HMMM WoW has swords like this too...and about 7 million people LOVE WoW...maybe taking a page from Blizzards play book isn't such a bad think...So you might not like them...looks like the score is 7 million to one... </blockquote>Actually, silly and rediculous fits the whole campy style of WOW. Those swords fit there, right along with the "Barmans Shanker" which was a broken off beer bottle, the "Board with Nail" you could get from murlocs, the Rolling Pin crush weapon, and my favorite, the "Razor Axe" which was a huge Gillette style double edged razor with a handle on it. I also had duel wield Fish. This fit in with NPCs who used Men At Work lyrics as quest dialog, dancing the Macerena, and all of the 80s pop culture tidbits scattered throughout the game. The devs didn't do a single thing in game on the basis of realism, and never cared how utterly silly something was, the sillyness was planned and was game wide. The cartoony exaggerations FIT the game.Same with Final Fantasy, they had a look and feel that was, and is, identifiable and identified with thier game, characters, and overall feel.Scabbing bits and chunks of "kewl" graphics from other games, regardless of how popular, fails because they don't fit in with the majority of the game. Its funny, horses can't back fast in order to have "realism", most of our armor and equipment is dinged, dull and gritty for "realism", so much is done in that original theme of what the game was to look like.. and introducing something so far out of whack is just jarring and out of context. Add in that it is unoriginal and uninspired lazyness to just drop in a graphic shamelessly pulled from another highly identifiable game. May as well bring in a Light Saber, its kewl, popular AND a sword also.Things have to fit together. I love Banana Creme Pie. I love a good Steak. In spite of that, the concept of a Steak and Banana Cream Pie makes me ill.

Guy De Alsace

05-25-2007, 11:24 AM

I say pseudo-anime by the fact that the art displays themes common to anime using the tools that EQ2 has at its disposal. Minimalist colour, lack of detail, exaggerated facial features and so on. Maybe I'm being racist or some orther "ist" i've not found out about yet but I was rather fond of EQ2's distinctly European style before SOGA came along. The original art had a unique style and the faces had expressions I could relate to. In Maara, my first encounter with the 'new style', I was really put off by the blank, plastic and totally expressionless faces of the people in that expansion. I'm equally disposed towards the blank, expressionless faces of the Fae. Its a shame. I hope that EQ2 rediscovers its original style soon.

liveja

05-25-2007, 11:30 AM

Guy De Alsace wrote: <blockquote>I was rather fond of EQ2's distinctly European style before SOGA came along.</blockquote>So was I.I don't think that the amount of Oriental-tinged artwork in the game is "excessive". But in some cases -- like the Dreadguards we're talking about -- it's somewhat jarring to me.I'm not sure why some people have even brought up "racism" at all. IMHO, the word doesn't fit with this discussion.

Dutchgrrl

05-25-2007, 11:46 AM

Guy De Alsace wrote: <blockquote>I say pseudo-anime by the fact that the art displays themes common to anime using the tools that EQ2 has at its disposal. Minimalist colour, lack of detail, exaggerated facial features and so on. Maybe I'm being racist or some orther "ist" i've not found out about yet but I was rather fond of EQ2's distinctly European style before SOGA came along. The original art had a unique style and the faces had expressions I could relate to. In Maara, my first encounter with the 'new style', I was really put off by the blank, plastic and totally expressionless faces of the people in that expansion. I'm equally disposed towards the blank, expressionless faces of the Fae. Its a shame. I hope that EQ2 rediscovers its original style soon.</blockquote> Guy...I don't think you are being racist - I too am curious why you would interject something that heavy into this conversation... If you somehow gethered the idea that *I* was referring to racism, than you got it wrong completely. The point to that anecdote was to suggest that in a world with so wide and varied a set of civilizations, some differences in art and artiface are to be expected. It does not strike me as unreasonable that the guards in that zone could have the weapons that they do, for all we know those are ceremonial weapons of an exaggerated design so as to be easier to see, and the guards in question are - ceremonial - like the Beefeaters that stand in front of Buckingham Palace.Speaking of which, the pair of guards standing outside the palace gate in their beefeater uniforms are ceremonial, but I understand that hidden inside the guardhouse there is an entire squad of HK wielding soldiers who are anything but ceremonial...What I do not understand is why you insist that these swords represent a downward spiral to the game... It seems to me that the true heart of the problem is that people keep imprinting real world definitions on in game content. Because the game content has elements that are based upon oriental design or art, there is this assumption that the people and things in the game ARE oriental - when all I see is a style of influence, and not a direct link to the real world.Kat

Lasai

05-25-2007, 11:47 AM

<cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote> Actually i think your over doing the weight guess. Also very large swords were actually used and did not wieght as much as you may think they did. <a href="http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html</a> That site has some very fine specs on actual swords and some very nice photos showing the size in relation to a real person. Granted none are as wide as those i seen on the guards but even then i would put those at maybe 15 to 20 pounds if doing a really life guess at the weight. Not the was it 250 pounds some one said here?. Personally add me to the list of those who like this look. </blockquote> Yes, 200 lbs may have been a bit over. Doing a search for "replica" Buster Swords, the carbon steel model I found wieghed in at 25 lbs, and was no thicker than my Chef's knife. Given the thickness of the in game models, I don't think I was far off at all. Most of the replicas I found were skeletonized, wood, or foamcored plastic, because of the wieght issue.I would love to see someone actually swinging and controlling even a 25lb sword for any length of time.Sure, I may be over-reacting, but this is just such a step away from what they have always done graphically in this game.. and I fear a tip of the iceberg situation. Whatever, I'm done.

Allisia

05-25-2007, 11:48 AM

Though I prefer the mostly occidental flavor of Norrath, the oriental touches they gave to Neriak just seem to fit. So why they chose not to give a race with a petite body structure weapons that would seem to play on their strengths (katana, nodachi, and wakizashi) and complement the theme they gave them I have no idea. Those weapons they did give them looks like they came from a Warhammer Orc Boys weapon sprue and would look more appropriate in the hands of an ogre. I think the dread guards would have looked fantastic with a nodachi (or katana if mounted).

Tricit2

05-25-2007, 12:06 PM

For those of you who don't know that Vikings successfully used oversized giant swords, go take a history lesson or don't talk. No one has to prove anything on the internet to anyone. You can just go look it up yourselves. Giant Claymores, while not the pivot of the Viking success, was a part of their fear factor and wild rage tactics which worked well being taller and more freighten-looking in their crazy accessories. And btw for Internet "PROOF OR SHUT UP"ers, proving stuff on the internet is pretty stupid as no internet source should be trusted regardless of what anyone tells you. All one can do is suggest to you and then you must varify any claims on the internet for yourself offline.The modern giant sword style in terms of fantasy settings is indeed an overexaggeration of the Katana used in Japan. One thing we should note, however, is that the Katanas and Great Katanas used in Final Fantasy XI (11) are not exaggerated at all. They all look very realistic. Now, I can see how they are oversized in the other series of games, but I highly doubt that EQ2 and their graphics designers stole anything from any other game to create Neriak. Now maybe they barrowed some ideas. There is a difference. Barrowing is not copying, but using the same idea rather than the same "thing" to create a new "thing". On the subject of one leaving for such a silly reason. For every person that leaves, many more that sign up, try and eventually discover Neriak will stay for the exact same reason... as opposed to leaving out of boredom from the same graphic style prevelant in EQ2. Simply put, graphic diversity is good.

Allisia

05-25-2007, 12:10 PM

<cite>Tricit2 wrote:</cite><blockquote> Simply put, graphic diversity is good.</blockquote> Not always. I wouldn't want them to add a shield with a great big yellow smiley face (like this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) on it, nor would I have wanted them to add those pieces of starcruiser shrapnel the dread guards have slapped on their backs.

Themaginator

05-25-2007, 12:25 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>I see a group of guards holding "Clouds" sword</blockquote> <img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/DRCEQ2/Cromartiefacepalm.jpg" border="0">It's topics like these that makes me lose faith in humanity.First off, they're called Buster Swords. 2nd: Cloud didn't invent the style. Actual human beings in the middle ages did. 3rd: Neriak was designed by SOGA studios in Taiwan. Dont like it? Dont play any characters in that area of the game. Avoid Neriak altogether or deal with it.</blockquote> HAHAH QFT /PalmFace for the win

Lasai

05-25-2007, 12:29 PM

<cite>Tricit2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>For those of you who don't know that Vikings successfully used oversized giant swords, go take a history lesson or don't talk. No one has to prove anything on the internet to anyone. You can just go look it up yourselves. Giant Claymores, while not the pivot of the Viking success, was a part of their fear factor and wild rage tactics which worked well being taller and more freighten-looking in their crazy accessories. And btw for Internet "PROOF OR SHUT UP"ers, proving stuff on the internet is pretty stupid as no internet source should be trusted regardless of what anyone tells you. All one can do is suggest to you and then you must varify any claims on the internet for yourself offline.History Lesson? Ok, lets. Claidheamh Mor, or "claymore" was a Scottish two hand longsword perfected around the 16th Century, Renaissance, approximately 5 centuries after the glory days of the Viking raiding era. Viking era metal was scare, rare and valuable, and many were Iron or Bronze requiring thicker and heavier construction. I don't know of a museam or documented example of the later Two Hand, [Removed for Content] or Hand and a half sword created and used by the Nordic countries at that time.BTW, crazy accessories.. let me clue you in on the fact that they have yet to find a period Horned "Hagar the Horrible" Viking helm. Im sitting in a library of reference books, and history is my hobby.. don't even go there.The modern giant sword style in terms of fantasy settings is indeed an overexaggeration of the Katana used in Japan. One thing we should note, however, is that the Katanas and Great Katanas used in Final Fantasy XI (11) are not exaggerated at all. They all look very realistic. Now, I can see how they are oversized in the other series of games, but I highly doubt that EQ2 and their graphics designers stole anything from any other game to create Neriak. Now maybe they barrowed some ideas. There is a difference. Barrowing is not copying, but using the same idea rather than the same "thing" to create a new "thing". On the subject of one leaving for such a silly reason. For every person that leaves, many more that sign up, try and eventually discover Neriak will stay for the exact same reason... as opposed to leaving out of boredom from the same graphic style prevelant in EQ2. Simply put, graphic diversity is good.</blockquote>Its all a matter of opinion. I would happily accept you telling me to "Shut up, I like buster swords". Don't even try to create some historical precedence for a silly comic book style of weapon, you fail at it.

MysidiaDrakkenbane

05-25-2007, 12:39 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tricit2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>For those of you who don't know that Vikings successfully used oversized giant swords, go take a history lesson or don't talk. No one has to prove anything on the internet to anyone. You can just go look it up yourselves. Giant Claymores, while not the pivot of the Viking success, was a part of their fear factor and wild rage tactics which worked well being taller and more freighten-looking in their crazy accessories. And btw for Internet "PROOF OR SHUT UP"ers, proving stuff on the internet is pretty stupid as no internet source should be trusted regardless of what anyone tells you. All one can do is suggest to you and then you must varify any claims on the internet for yourself offline.History Lesson? Ok, lets. Claidheamh Mor, or "claymore" was a Scottish two hand longsword perfected around the 16th Century, Renaissance, approximately 5 centuries after the glory days of the Viking raiding era. Viking era metal was scare, rare and valuable, and many were Iron or Bronze requiring thicker and heavier construction. I don't know of a museam or documented example of the later Two Hand, [I cannot control my vocabulary] or Hand and a half sword created and used by the Nordic countries at that time.BTW, crazy accessories.. let me clue you in on the fact that they have yet to find a period Horned "Hagar the Horrible" Viking helm. Im sitting in a library of reference books, and history is my hobby.. don't even go there.The modern giant sword style in terms of fantasy settings is indeed an overexaggeration of the Katana used in Japan. One thing we should note, however, is that the Katanas and Great Katanas used in Final Fantasy XI (11) are not exaggerated at all. They all look very realistic. Now, I can see how they are oversized in the other series of games, but I highly doubt that EQ2 and their graphics designers stole anything from any other game to create Neriak. Now maybe they barrowed some ideas. There is a difference. Barrowing is not copying, but using the same idea rather than the same "thing" to create a new "thing". On the subject of one leaving for such a silly reason. For every person that leaves, many more that sign up, try and eventually discover Neriak will stay for the exact same reason... as opposed to leaving out of boredom from the same graphic style prevelant in EQ2. Simply put, graphic diversity is good.</blockquote>Its all a matter of opinion. I would happily accept you telling me to "Shut up, I like buster swords". Don't even try to create some historical precedence for a silly comic book style of weapon, you fail at it. </blockquote>Horns were more than likely used by the Celts since it was a fear tactic making them appear "demonic" in nature.

archimidesX

05-25-2007, 12:44 PM

this thread is funny...

aardda

05-25-2007, 12:46 PM

The swords in question can't be too bad as i didn't even notice them as i did a tour around neriak when it arrived. However, i will say this tho - anime is the work of the devil, mmkay <img src="/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

StrollingWolf

05-25-2007, 12:47 PM

Please remember to keep the discussion civil.Thanks.

theplayer0670

05-25-2007, 12:50 PM

Have at thee, COSPLAY!I agree, looks dumb on EQ Dark Elves...but I mean, its SOGA artists so I guess they are allowed to do what they want since they are looking over the art direction. His Power Level is definately 9000!

KBern

05-25-2007, 12:58 PM

I have not seen the swords in question yet but are they really that different then the Qeynos Claymore model from the Statues and the Claymore Quest reward?

Hannalynn

05-25-2007, 01:20 PM

I absolutly love these swords and hope my sk can get one! I am happy to seem them around, and cheer that they are here. EQ2 can't caiter to one specific type of player, and so in that, they add different elements that will satisfy other types of players and not always one kind. There will never be the perfect game where 100% of the population in it agrees on every style and inch of the game. p.s. I also love final fantasy, and have every game for every machine, even if I don't have that machine. (even mystic quest! >_&lt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Deadrus

05-25-2007, 05:04 PM

Ok for the Record Last i checked we were playing "Everquest 2" not "The Histricly Acurate Middleages Adventures online" That being said Orcs arent real... nor are I'd say over 90% of the player characters or NPCs Cept for maybe the human ones and animals we have here on earth. So Guess what lots of stuff that we dont have such as orcs dragons and the like ok that makes this a Fantasy game. Every one with me so far? OK good. Haveing Fantastic weapons is not that far off. If we can't have fantastic weapons then why do we have fantastic creatures? Sure as of now the game armor and weapons have had a more realistic look to them. But then agian the Devs are limtied because they dont have the new armor system implimented in the game so most of our armor looks like the T1-6 equivilants just a differnt color and there for the styles is the same and looks realistic. I for one am hopeing to get more fantasyish armor and weapons when they get the new model system done. I would just like to see more variety in the game cuz lets face it thats EQ2s biggest downfall right now. (that and only 7 charater slots) What I want to see is more armor and weapon veriety and havieng a mix of Fantasyish armor with real is a good mix. Real to a point but haveing a complement of more exotic stuff that is pushing the edge of relistic but still and fun and most of all fantasy. Each race should have its own set of armor plane and simple. There shold be things about it that look Human or that looks Elven or that looks like a troll made it. Right now everything is rooted in realism (witch isnt a bad thing but this IS a fatnasy game) and its caterd to Human realism. There is Very little armor rght now in the game that looks like it has come from a civliaztion other then Human. Id love to see Racialy disctinct armor for the different races. Not to say the armor is excluseive to one race but It be nice to see Elven armor, Darkelven armor, Iksar armor, and so on that is identafyable by culture or past culture since the races are lumped togeather in citys now. But surely they have passed down there culture and have relics of what armor would be like for their race. Another thing sure yeah an average person would have a hard time swinging around a 25 pound sword for any lenght of time. But once agian you forget this is a Fantasy game And RPG. We gain levels and are consequently much srtonger then average people. We dont stay static. Thats why you dont see 24 lv 1's raid dragons cuz they just cant because they aren't srong enough. You level up you get stronger. Being lv 70 and being as strong as in your self as 70 people (probably more then 70 people) pluss the fact that your armor is magical and aguments and streghtens you even more then your normal lv 70 self would be. And then some guards in Neriak are EPIC witches means they are as strong as 2-4 6 person groups of that particular level. I dont care if the weapon looks HUGE on them they will be able to swing it like it was a tooth pick. People are screaming for real but This is a fantasy game and you must take into acount that we are equivlant to level 1 and I dont think you can get a sword that looks that big. One person said earler people would have complained if it was same old same old and he's right people would have. I'm gald to see veriety in this game. This game NEEDs some veriety in styles of clothing and armore in a bad way.

Guy De Alsace

05-25-2007, 10:21 PM

I think my original generalised outburst against anime was wrong. Its not that its anime, its just the styles simply do not fit together at all. If the Dreadguards had been fully SOGA and the full gamut of anime design influences were in there, coupled with the sword too I probably wouldnt have noticed. What immediately was jarring were the complete absence of any fluidity of design from the Dreadguard to their weapons. Like a Challenger tank painted bright pink. It just doesnt work at all. Although I found the Bugbear models in EoF laugh-out-loud funny, they still were fluid in design if terrible in execution. Meh, its just a game in the end but you know when something just puts a bad taste in your mouth...

Salox

05-26-2007, 12:31 AM

This thread has become beyond ridiculous. Remember that you can shove every piece of history in our faces, act like you know everything, and insult people, but in the end, the shots are up to SOE. Duhhh, right? Well, the majority of you are too busy trying to prove how big your historically accurate [Removed for Content] is, that you've completely forgotten what this thread is about. It's about creativity and being able to come up with something that's truly your own. At this point in time, with weapons and armor being absolutely dull, this game needs all it can get. If this means implementing Giganto Swords of [I cannot control my vocabulary]-kicking, then so be it. Remember that THIS IS A FANTASY GAME. We play it to avoid the real world and have fun.

Lasai

05-26-2007, 08:27 AM

Ignius@The Bazaar wrote: <blockquote>This thread has become beyond ridiculous. Remember that you can shove every piece of history in our faces, act like you know everything, and insult people, but in the end, the shots are up to SOE. Duhhh, right? Well, the majority of you are too busy trying to prove how big your historically accurate [Removed for Content] is, that you've completely forgotten what this thread is about. It's about creativity and being able to come up with something that's truly your own. At this point in time, with weapons and armor being absolutely dull, this game needs all it can get. If this means implementing Giganto Swords of [I cannot control my vocabulary]-kicking, then so be it. Remember that THIS IS A FANTASY GAME. We play it to avoid the real world and have fun. </blockquote>"Creativity and being able to come up with something that's truly your own"Yes, and they failed on both counts. Dumping in a blatant copy of something from another game is neither creative nor unique.Artistically, the ridiculous thing doesn't even mesh in with or fit the theme of the rest of what they did. The city is high Art compared to Freeport or Qeynos.. and dumping in a gigantic exacto knife blade doesn't work on any level.Creative would be the weapons they put on the Dead Faction guards, or the armor and fittings on the Warg mounts.The "omg its fantasy" argument gets old. Yes it is "Fantasy". So is the work of Frazetta vs the average 10year old fanfic art done in MS paint. Fantasy can be artistic, or just lazy exaggeration. The Buster Sword is the latter, and always has been.

Zaelicor

05-26-2007, 10:47 AM

Just as a side-note, there is a player-usable weapon in game that uses the graphic...and even pays tribute to the refrence the thread title mentions <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I know everyone's going to have their own opinion about everything (that tree is too tree like!) but personally I like the look. A vast variety of styles and looks of weaponry (and armor) not only makes for a better game, but role-play wise shows a diversity in the styles of each region and race. I'm just sad that when I get the sword it'll scale down to my gnome berserker <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ...hey if she can carry a house full of stuff in her backpacks, she should be able to swing a sword 3 times her size!

Wyrmypops

05-26-2007, 11:05 AM

I ain't even seen the swords yet, and now, not sure I want to. When I get there I'll try to remain objective, but I'm kidding myself, I'm too much of a human to be able to approach something similar to something I dislike and judge it on its own. Didn't like SOGA, looks amateurish and doesn't fit the rest of the imagery as far as I'm concerned. Can't stand the Fae, with their SOGA hair an all. Didn't care for Mara, it was dull and the quest progression left a lot to be desired, but at least the imagery fit itself - it wasn't one thing here and another thing there.I'd rather the game realised its strengths and played to them. The imagery is a significant aspect. It's different to other games, and that's a good thing. Variety is great. But that doesn't neccesarily make it a good idea to lump a load of graphic variety into one game - rather, have that variety spread over multiple games. That is, retain the integrity of EQ2's imagery and enjoy the variety of imagery present in other games. Rather than considering something that works elsewhere and slap it into Norrath.That doesn't suggest a limited array of visuals either. The weapon graphics we've seen so far are hardly so exhaustive they've run out of options in presenting new weapons that do fit the remaining imagery. Two handed swords could be done single or double edged, short or long hilts, extended or curved quillons, have loads of different varieties of basket hilt or wiggly quillons going on, different lengths of blade, the edge started at different places down the blade length, gems whererever, engraving and loads of other adornments. There's no need to replicate examples of other genres, it's jarring, and in context somewhat non-sensical. Hehe, even if it does. I dunno. It might be OK. Will have to go for a look myself eh. Oh, and the Beefeaters guard the Tower of London. The chaps in red jacket and busby hats that mooch around Buckingham Palace are something else entirely, Coldstream Guards or something.

Polywogus

05-26-2007, 11:45 AM

<cite>Zaelicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>A vast variety of styles and looks of weaponry (and armor) not only makes for a better game, but role-play wise shows a diversity in the styles of each region and race.</blockquote>Very well put <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The reason I choose SOGA models is because I find the original doughy / clay-like, & many look cross-eyed. The hair, for the most part, is very good, their sizes are good, & the extra customization of the original models = all good. But the skin & eyes are enough for me to go w/ SOGA & live w/ less customization & worse hair. I picked what I felt was the lesser of 2 evils. The Vampire illusion out of the Bloodlines adv. pack seems to have nailed the eyes & skin well & very much seems more like the original models than SOGA. The hair is atrocious, but...I run around in Vamp form all day <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I don't know the history of the buster sword or what not, but as long as it doesn't dominate every single facet of our game, & there are many more choices (butter knife? =p ), then it's all good IMO

Wyrmypops

05-26-2007, 02:09 PM

Now I've seen them, I don't mind them. I don't like them, but I don't mind them. They look a lil silly. Like, ceremonial, impossible to use, silly, but not the worst design that could have been made. A blade like that, should come with an equally massively haft, and be a pole arm. But still, I'd rather they weren't the way they are. It could be a start of things to come. A slippery slope, ending up in a messy pit of freaky looking stuff that doesn't fit existing imagery or any kind of common sense. The "it's magic" argument doesn't really apply to the physics of a character and the weapon they carry - and we know it, so when we look at it we can't help but think it's weird.

vyr

05-27-2007, 03:24 AM

I honestly don't see the point of guards in great looking armour, wielding a giant razorblade (and yes I have seen these weapons). Nothing against oversized swords and such (Qeynos Claymore looks great, and variety is more then welcome) , but those weapons are just bland and without any detail whatsoever. And I have to say apart from that and the star-wars red-robed guards, Neriak is a great looking city. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

selch

05-27-2007, 09:08 PM

While I enjoy animes / mangas themselves a lot, I really hate to see character / art / item in game. Beside as you can see from my signature, not all animes has lack of sword taste

angrytroll1

05-30-2007, 03:53 PM

If I had a 40 lb sword I would definately want something big to wield it. Maybe an Ogre or a Troll? I could visit someone and have my strength augmented.....I'd need a wizard for that. Wow, I guess that all that stuff exists in this game. Huh. Realism? Maybe you should look to the SCA. A few models is not game breaking. WoW makes me physically ill as well but we are frankly very far from that point.Get over it.

Vatoreus

05-31-2007, 06:13 AM

So, to all the people complaining about realism and how these weapons would be completely ineffective: Do you make your character lie down every night and wait a few hours so your character can sleep? Do you refuse to carry housing items in your back pack? Do you force walk your character everywhere and only jog it every so often? The point I'm making, is you cry out for realism in one department and completely ignore it and say, "Oh, that's ok" in others. If your character has no problem running around all day with armoirs and beds in his backpacks, why couldn't he wield a 60lb sword effectively? Also, stop spouting your opinions like they are the most important thing anyone on Earth has ever said. It's YOUR OPINION, not everyone has to agree with you, get over yourself.

selch

05-31-2007, 06:35 AM

<cite>Vatoreus wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, to all the people complaining about realism and how these weapons would be completely ineffective: Do you make your character lie down every night and wait a few hours so your character can sleep? Aye, he sleeps with me. Do you refuse to carry housing items in your back pack? Yeah, there is my house for that.Do you force walk your character everywhere and only jog it every so often? I have a car, so I dont force my character everywhere, I use my horse. The point I'm making, is you cry out for realism in one department and completely ignore it and say, "Oh, that's ok" in others. If your character has no problem running around all day with armoirs and beds in his backpacks, why couldn't he wield a 60lb sword effectively? Also, stop spouting your opinions like they are the most important thing anyone on Earth has ever said. It's YOUR OPINION, not everyone has to agree with you, get over yourself. And that is your opinion. If you dont mind then don't interfere just to make a post </blockquote>

Wyrmypops

05-31-2007, 11:49 AM

<cite>Vatoreus wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, to all the people complaining about realism and how these weapons would be completely ineffective: Do you make your character lie down every night and wait a few hours so your character can sleep? Do you refuse to carry housing items in your back pack? Do you force walk your character everywhere and only jog it every so often? The point I'm making, is you cry out for realism in one department and completely ignore it and say, "Oh, that's ok" in others. If your character has no problem running around all day with armoirs and beds in his backpacks, why couldn't he wield a 60lb sword effectively? Also, stop spouting your opinions like they are the most important thing anyone on Earth has ever said. It's YOUR OPINION, not everyone has to agree with you, get over yourself. </blockquote>Those issues are wholly different. They are not visually jarring. Whatever someone has or doesn't have in their backpacks doesn't impact upon the imagery at all, we don't see backpacks. Whatever a character does when it isn't online is quite obviously not impacting upon the visuals by dint of it not being present at all. One could argue about the existence of animated skeletons being unrealistic, but I don't recall that ever being brought up - with that, "it's magic" will suffice, whereas "it's magic" is less satisfactory at waving away the the visually jarring out of place weapons with oversized blades and tiny hilts weilded by peoples that to all visual purposes obey the laws of physics and conflict with the imagery of the rest of the game. The issue is not a holistic damnation of gameplay over realism, this one is limited to this issue, and it wouldn't do anyone any favours to mix up different issues. As to the spouting opinions part - that's kind of the point of forums like these. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Allisia

05-31-2007, 12:28 PM

Ignius@The Bazaar wrote: <blockquote>It's about creativity and being able to come up with something that's truly your own. At this point in time, with weapons and armor being absolutely dull, this game needs all it can get. If this means implementing Giganto Swords of [I cannot control my vocabulary]-kicking, then so be it. Remember that THIS IS A FANTASY GAME. We play it to avoid the real world and have fun. </blockquote>No, it's about some of us not liking the graphics of a weapon. Check the thread title in case you've forgotten. You think the weapons and armor are dull, I think they're fine, albeit limited in number. Now we all know why you play the game, but try to refrain from speaking for others or making assumptions about their motives. I'm not here to "avoid the real world" and no MMO I've ever found has been immersive enough to accomplish that.

varilite

05-31-2007, 01:19 PM

I like the huge swords, I think they look great, original, maby not. Then again, aside from the paradigm, it's all been done before. I would argue that FF7 did the huge sword first, as a visual style that is. Some peeps are gonna think it kills immersion, some don't.I play a plate wearing zerk. Half-elf at that. I can do round house kicks, while wearing said plate. That's always bugged me, but then again, it's SOE's take on physics, so whatever.Just ignore the swords and move on.

Themaginator

05-31-2007, 02:22 PM

its sad that theres such a long thread on this...i mean who cares...its just a big [Removed for Content] sword. Why are people so butt hurt by it?

Iagan the Swart

05-31-2007, 02:26 PM

While they don't ruin the new zone and city for me, I do think they look ridiculous. The first time my wife and I saw them, we thought they were a bug in the game . So I guess that makes it 7,000,000 to 6.

LordPazuzu

06-01-2007, 03:56 AM

<blockquote>hope that EQ2 rediscovers its original style soon</blockquote>EQ2 had an original style? When EQ2 launched it was graphically very very very bland. As phenominal as the graphics were from a technology standpoint, they were panned across the board by critics and users alike as being flat out ugly and boring. I'm glad that SOE is finally putting some kind of stylistic flare into the game.

Rabid-Othmir

06-01-2007, 10:32 AM

Those swords look ridiculous. Here's to hoping they don't start popping up elsewhere.

Themaginator

06-01-2007, 07:45 PM

i hope theres more of these swords just so it pisses more people off lol.. i think they look cool i mean...whats not cool about a huge sword...jeeze

Ryus

06-08-2007, 05:07 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, Cusahorn, didn't expect the vitriol from our very own smug, self rightious Lore forum troll.Put up or shut up. Post a reference to a human wielding, using or carrying a sword of the mammoth Size, shape and scale of the "Buster" Sword in the Medieval era. Perhaps I missed the Busternian Empire in world history.Pardon me for not knowing its actual name. Pardon me for not having an Anime Sig, or instant access to anime images for illustrative trolling. I am positive now the Human Race IS in danger from lack of Anime Knowledge, thanks for pointing that out to me.And, in fact, I plan to not live in or use the zone, thanks.</blockquote> The 斬馬刀, Zhanmadao, or chopping horse saber was 150 centimeters in length, or 59.6"; the blade itself was 114 centimeters. It was a Chinese sword used during the the Song Dynasty (960 - 1279 AD). As the name implies it was a weapon used against cavalry. Regardless, I welcome the "huge" swords on the Nerian (sp?) guards, nice addition to add to diversity in the game.

Themaginator

06-08-2007, 05:11 PM

<cite>Ryushi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, Cusahorn, didn't expect the vitriol from our very own smug, self rightious Lore forum troll.Put up or shut up. Post a reference to a human wielding, using or carrying a sword of the mammoth Size, shape and scale of the "Buster" Sword in the Medieval era. Perhaps I missed the Busternian Empire in world history.Pardon me for not knowing its actual name. Pardon me for not having an Anime Sig, or instant access to anime images for illustrative trolling. I am positive now the Human Race IS in danger from lack of Anime Knowledge, thanks for pointing that out to me.And, in fact, I plan to not live in or use the zone, thanks.</blockquote> The 斬馬刀, Zhanmadao, or chopping horse saber was 150 centimeters in length, or 59.6"; the blade itself was 114 centimeters. It was a Chinese sword used during the the Song Dynasty (960 - 1279 AD). As the name implies it was a weapon used against cavalry. Regardless, I welcome the "huge" swords on the Nerian (sp?) guards, nice addition to add to diversity in the game. </blockquote>we have a winner! Lasai on the other hand has some anger issues...he is the loser of this thread, i never thought id see a day when people didnt like a huge [Removed for Content] sword, its sad really.

Ryus

06-08-2007, 05:45 PM

Sashtan@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote>we have a winner! Lasai on the other hand has some anger issues...he is the loser of this thread, i never thought id see a day when people didnt like a huge [I cannot control my vocabulary] sword, its sad really. </blockquote>It is arrogant to assume that just because a "huge" sword did not exist in Europe doesn't mean one did not exist at all. I just wanted to point out that their were several large swords used in China during several of the dynasties, not just the song, in fact the Zhanmadao was used in a few other dynasties outside of the Song Dynasty. I believe the Changren Dadao was longer than the Zhanmadao, mind you not in blade size, but in length. The Zhanmado is better documented than the Changren Dadao, in my opinion at least

Naubeta

06-08-2007, 06:08 PM

It looks crappy. But that doesn't mean longer swords would look bad in general. I'd love to see my Ratonga weilding a claymore or something <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

selch

06-08-2007, 07:13 PM

@Lasai:Topkapi Palace Armory: May be you can compare two handed weapons' sizes in the background to helmet and body armor there to compare. As you can see it IS an European sword (and cross) that was looted during Crusades. Following weapons are in showroom in Istanbul, Turkey. Not to mention, as someone with 183 cm's tall myself, that armor is actually above my height. PS: The middle weapon there actually is small compared to some others in showroom. So as last word, Lasari, PLEASE oh PLEASE, do not show yourself like you have lived in Middle Ages or have any idea about those ages just with your knowledge from computer games. Museums are your friend, use them.<img src="http://ejmas.com/jwma/articles/2005/dawson_Topkapi.jpg" border="0">

Wyrmypops

06-08-2007, 09:09 PM

Ah, the Neriak sword looks nothing like a Zhanmadao. And yeah, Europe had large weapons anyway. As has the game. Large weapons, wielded with two hands, weighted and with hilts of appropriate length to use them effectively. Can't really point at the Zhanmadao as a reason for the Neriak sword to exist. Could just as well say Europe had frying pans in the middles to justify it. <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The Neriak sword looks weird because we see it and know it's an impossible weapon. It's just poor design. And not on the weaponsmiths part.

Ryus

06-09-2007, 03:51 AM

<cite>Wyrmypops wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ah, the Neriak sword looks nothing like a Zhanmadao. And yeah, Europe had large weapons anyway. As has the game. Large weapons, wielded with two hands, weighted and with hilts of appropriate length to use them effectively. Can't really point at the Zhanmadao as a reason for the Neriak sword to exist. Could just as well say Europe had frying pans in the middles to justify it. <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The Neriak sword looks weird because we see it and know it's an impossible weapon. It's just poor design. And not on the weaponsmiths part. </blockquote> I never claimed that they looked anything like the Zhanmadao. Someone said earlier in the thread that he wanted proof that swords as large as the ones the Nerian Guards existed somewhere in the world, I just gave him the information he desired. Nor did I claim that the Zhanmadao was a reason for the Nerian Swords to exist. To be honest we can't say the swords that the guards use are impossible to wield, simply because they don't exist. You can call it poor design, which is your opinion, but the thread wouldn't be this long if people didn't disagree.

Wyrmypops

06-09-2007, 06:21 AM

<cite>Ryushi wrote:</cite><blockquote>To be honest we can't say the swords that the guards use are impossible to wield, simply because they don't exist. You can call it poor design, which is your opinion, but the thread wouldn't be this long if people didn't disagree. </blockquote>Fair enough. Though, I'm not sure physics is just an opinion. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's a matter of the business end needing to be made of something solid, weighty, and the whole weapon ( blade+crossguard, hilt and pommel) balancing approximately around the optimum point (with one handed swords it's about a couple of inches down the blade)I ain't one to get hung up on science and realism, I'm more of a look and feel kinda bloke - It's just that, when something is so wrong it stands out and looks wrong, we can see its wrong, we can't then not see it, and thus a sword like that is jarring. We don't need to know all about swords to see that weapon could not work, our brains do more calculations a minute for us automatically than I've had occasions where I wished I could come with an amusing simile. It couldn't be controlled like a sword. Hell, the placement of weight would be all wrong for an axe or club too. A blade that size needs a much longer hilt and to be weilded with two hands. I'm just hoping this ain't the thin end of a wedge, an indication of a change to the forseeable look and feel, I'm hoping this is an aberation, like, a dev that normally does trees got to try their hand at a weapon for a change and now has to make the coffee for a whlile before even being let back onto even making withered branches. Er, or something. <img src="/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Themaginator

06-09-2007, 02:57 PM

all this comes down to is this...Its a big sword, big swords are ALWAYS cool, it doesnt matter if you could physically wield it or not, its a big sword and it kills things, its really that simple, its not ugly its not Final Fantasy. This...is a big sword and big swords have always been cool and anyone who disagrees, well id question their manliness lol...so why did this thread start again? Oh and these swords have been in game since Fallen Dynasty, but no one pays attention to that.

Ryus

06-09-2007, 09:49 PM

<cite>Wyrmypops wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ryushi wrote: Fair enough. Though, I'm not sure physics is just an opinion. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's a matter of the business end needing to be made of something solid, weighty, and the whole weapon ( blade+crossguard, hilt and pommel) balancing approximately around the optimum point (with one handed swords it's about a couple of inches down the blade)I ain't one to get hung up on science and realism, I'm more of a look and feel kinda bloke - It's just that, when something is so wrong it stands out and looks wrong, we can see its wrong, we can't then not see it, and thus a sword like that is jarring. We don't need to know all about swords to see that weapon could not work, our brains do more calculations a minute for us automatically than I've had occasions where I wished I could come with an amusing simile. It couldn't be controlled like a sword. Hell, the placement of weight would be all wrong for an axe or club too. A blade that size needs a much longer hilt and to be weilded with two hands. I'm just hoping this ain't the thin end of a wedge, an indication of a change to the forseeable look and feel, I'm hoping this is an aberation, like, a dev that normally does trees got to try their hand at a weapon for a change and now has to make the coffee for a whlile before even being let back onto even making withered branches. Er, or something. <img src="/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Well, we don't know how the principles of physics work in Norrath, unless you happen to be the Isaac Newton of Norrath. This isn't necessarily aimed at you, but I hate how people pick and choose what realism they want in the game. For example, Big swords can not exist, because the gravitational forces of our world would not allow it. However, it is fine for the any sword to emit a magical aura, regardless of the fact that it is impossible in the real world. I'm not trying to turn this into a realism vs fiction, but do not try to justify your answer by saying it is impossible in the real world. This thread boils down to what people prefer as a look, basically an opinion. You don't like the style, which is your opinion, you are entitled to that. Then there are people who like the style, which they are entitled to as well. I sit somewhere in the middle.. I welcome the style because it brings diversity, but at the same I think they went a little overboard as far as the size goes.

Guy De Alsace

06-09-2007, 10:21 PM

I dont think realism is the issue here, its the jarring style mix. The Dreadguards are an extension of Neriak - the colour scheme of which is predominantly purple, blue and black. The style doesnt extend to the completely out of place swords which are big, wide and bright silver. It feels like the Paladin huards in Qeynos wearing jet black armour. It just doesnt fit at all. The Dreadguards should have, by all means big, black or purple two handed katanas to fit. I could see the big steel plates they currently wield being used by an unsubtle race like Orcs or somesuch.

Cynziel

06-09-2007, 10:34 PM

I haven't even been to Neriak yet, but now I think I'm going to roll a baddie there to check it out. Just wanted to chime in and say that the one reason I thought EQII was playable in the first place to me was because of the SOGA head models. Now that I've just learned SOGA is also responsible for Neriak I'm pretty excited! So yes, 'anime' style is a personal choice and is evidently pretty popular, it might be sad for some people that they are taking this direction with the game but I for one I'm happy they are. And yeah big swords are everywhere in both eastern and western fantasy.. I'm francophone and quite vividly remember reading french comics taking place in the Conan era, with HUGE swords, hammers, axes and girls in chain thongs. /shrug

Guy De Alsace

06-10-2007, 06:37 AM

So long as we are given a choice then thats good. Personally I hate the SOGA models and look so I much prefer the more western models. If the choice is there however, I dont see a reason to complain.

ArivenGemini

06-11-2007, 01:08 AM

Tidel@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote><cite>adolf102 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Current armor, weapon models skins are dull. And ...dull. It has been mentioned countless times on Look&Feel forum. And as said above anything that adds to variety is highly welcome. </blockquote>/Agree, More big [I cannot control my vocabulary] weapons are more than welcome. Playing a 20 stone tank in the phattest armour and Im weilding a stick with an small axe head on it....... </blockquote> I agree.. I would rather have the occaisional really large sword or whatever new variant than yet another Rock on a stick mace or Table leg mace..

Ixalmaris

06-11-2007, 10:32 AM

Oh please no more rediculous anime things. All those SOGA models, weaponts, etc. can go to hell if you ask me. If SOE wants tu turn this game into an asia/anime looking game than without me. Those things are just butt ugly.

Emerix

06-11-2007, 11:54 AM

Everquest was always supposed to be in a high (western) fantasy setting . I really dislike the SOGA/Anime things . Thats just my personal oppinion though . I prefer westish fantasy . The SOGA models look like badly drawn comics on a horrible mesh to me. While the Scenery in the Falled Dynasty is very pretty i dislike the character models . I like the realism of the original models over the SOGA art . People who say original models look like made of rubber and SOGA is real should go out more in my oppinion . And try to turn their textures to max . The original models actually have quite realistic scil. That quite iperfect and thus more real than the 20 layers of makeup SOGA stuff . Then again . As long as we have the choice not to see them im fine with it . Some people like that stuff and thats totally ok .Now back to topic : I've seen 7' two hand swords in a museum . The blades weren't that broad though . Still they were used to crush bones . And that they did quite well .

DanaDark

06-11-2007, 12:20 PM

I am fine with large swords so long as the delay is somewhat realistic. I like the idea of huge hunking swords that take forever to swing, but can cause massive damage. But swinging something the size of the Titanic faster than a swashbuckler can jab with a dagger is rather iffy.

Bloodfa

06-11-2007, 12:35 PM

Even Ahnuld had a rough time swinging that mammoth blade in Conan, and keeping it under control. But, at the Metropolitan Museum of Art you can see some behemoths that were used in actual combat. Beauties, to be sure, but graceful and fast? I've got a saber and a [Removed for Content] sword, and the saber's definitely easier to wield. I can't imagine trying to actually hit something with a flamberge or claymore unless it was essentially stationary. But hey, in EQ you can get knocked on your armor-plated rump and just get right back up, and that sure as hell ain't historically accurate. Full plate + knocked down = turtle-on-back waiting for light infantry to insert knife into armor gap at neck, armpit or groin. The game's not about realistic physics. And to add to the above comment about people needing to increase the texture detail, I concur. When you turn the graphics all the way up, it's stunning. But if you expect to be bowled over on an FX5200 graphics card .... well, that just isn't gonna happen. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><a href="http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewHigh.asp?dep=4&viewmode=0" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_A...&viewmode=0</a>

Nakaru-Nitepaw

06-11-2007, 01:09 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unoriginal, tired anime cliche's are not good art. Just making something huge does NOT make it "kewl".</blockquote> Yis true. Everyone knows smaller is cuter. XD <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4txCYUK7E-0" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4txCYUK7E-0</a>

Deadrus

06-11-2007, 04:08 PM

Being able to swing the sword of such size argument is really a buch of BS. This is an RPG. You get stats and get MUCH MUCH stronger then a "normal" person. The added streagth you get from leveling up and from stats from your armor would let you be able to swing something so large like its easy for you or I to swing around a butter knife. It may not look realistic but leveling up and haveing amor that gives us stats isnt real either maybe we should cut things like that out too?

Siogai

06-12-2007, 09:43 PM

<blockquote>Being able to swing the sword of such size argument is really a buch of BS. This is an RPG. You get stats and get MUCH MUCH stronger then a "normal" person. The added streagth you get from leveling up and from stats from your armor would let you be able to swing something so large like its easy for you or I to swing around a butter knife. It may not look realistic but leveling up and haveing amor that gives us stats isnt real either maybe we should cut things like that out too?</blockquote> Too true. My tiny Teir brigand can carry nearly 800 pounds worth of stuff. I can fit fireplaces into my backpack. Heck, I can fit *bathtubs* in my backpack. And someone worries that a giant sword is hard to swing? Sheesh, maybe it's got a magic anti-inertia stone in the pommel, it's light as a feather and sharp as a razor, cuts tomatos as easily as plate steel, mows the lawn, walks the dog and keeps the neighbours' kids in their own [Removed for Content] yard!

ganjookie

06-13-2007, 10:54 PM

Kalyria@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Everquest was always supposed to be in a high (western) fantasy setting . I really dislike the SOGA/Anime things . Thats just my personal oppinion though . I prefer westish fantasy . The SOGA models look like badly drawn comics on a horrible mesh to me. While the Scenery in the Falled Dynasty is very pretty i dislike the character models . I like the realism of the original models over the SOGA art . People who say original models look like made of rubber and SOGA is real should go out more in my oppinion . And try to turn their textures to max . The original models actually have quite realistic scil. That quite iperfect and thus more real than the 20 layers of makeup SOGA stuff . Then again . As long as we have the choice not to see them im fine with it . Some people like that stuff and thats totally ok .Now back to topic : I've seen 7' two hand swords in a museum . The blades weren't that broad though . Still they were used to crush bones . And that they did quite well .</blockquote>Hmmm no. I turned it up all the way and it still looks liek I have play-doh for hair. SOGA is far superior! go BIG [Removed for Content] SWORDS!

Naubeta

06-14-2007, 05:27 PM

It's not realism it's that it looks wrong because your mind has an innate sense of proportions. It's the equivalent of typing /cutemode for weapons.

Themaginator

06-14-2007, 05:59 PM

this thread died i thought, well darn, any Big Swords are always cool thats it.

Wyrmypops

06-15-2007, 03:31 AM

Naubitzi@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>It's not realism it's that it looks wrong because your mind has an innate sense of proportions. It's the equivalent of typing /cutemode for weapons. </blockquote>Yeah, that's it summed up more succintly than I expressed. <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I dare say I was too wordy, perhaps that's why people just read the word realism and replied "it's an RPG", as if that's an answer to anything. Armour made from banana skins, why not, it's an RPG. Razor sharp two handed swords made from moulded goat poo, why not, it's an rpg. Pfsh.Hehe, and I'd be fine with a /cutemode for weapons. It's an option. I wouldn't use it, but it's an option. But just as non-sensical oversize heads aren't the norm', neither should non-sensical oversize weapons be. Large kewl weapons and attractive weapons that would work are not mutually exclusive either. Big swords are cool, but they don't have to look counter to the internal rationale the rest of the games imagery suggests. There's already some cool large weapons in the game, but a great deal more dull looking large weapons, and that Neriak sword. The issue of strength has been brought up, and viewed askance. The strength of my 70zerker is over ten times that which he started with. But, he is not ten times stronger really. He's still human. That kinda strength is the kinda strength that affects weapon damage - it's what his experience has taught him, he has learnt to bring greater damage to bear when striking a blow. After all, he can't leap small buildings in a single bound or anything. Similarly with hit points, our characters don't have more than the eight pints of blood they started with or grown skin like boiled leather, they've just learnt to move with blows and not take the crippling damage they would have done when they started. It's one of them quirky perspective problems thrown up by using levels for advancement, this at least does it better than the crusty D&D, but our carrying strongboxes instead of a backpack does make it weird to appreciate.