Cataclysmic Mind Revisited – Again

[Panzerschrek]

I realize that this topic has been discussed several times on this board, but I would still like some clarification.  I realize that mobs do not use power in order to execute their CA's and spells.  So I was wondering, is it now a verified fact that this spell does nothing in PVE?  If this is the case, is there any plan for the developers to change it in some way (I know we can’t answer this question <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).  It would seem asinine to have a spell that is not only upgraded several times throughout the leveling process but also part of our AA line to have no effect on game play what so ever.  If anyone has parsed this spell and can confirm its uselessness I think it would be great if you could post here.  It would save new coercers the money and AA investment in this apparent waste of a spell. Thanks

[Sydias]

It does work in PvE.  However, it does nowhere near as much damage as Spell Scourge and it seems that if you have both Spell Scourge and Cataclysmic mind on at the same time, only Cataclysmic mind works.

[Obsidiann]

<cite>Sydias wrote:</cite><blockquote>It does work in PvE.  However, it does nowhere near as much damage as Spell Scourge and it seems that if you have both Spell Scourge and Cataclysmic mind on at the same time, only Cataclysmic mind works.</blockquote> Huh? Okay then explain this: There's an assassin mob in Vaults that uses an AOE every 20-30 seconds. If I ONLY cast Cataclysmic Mind, Spell Scourge and Auspex, when the mob casts its AOE all 3 hit and go off at the same time. I also see this on other mobs that use melee AOEs. I think that's BS that Cataclysmic mind doesn't work when Spell Scourge is on.

[Balrok]

<p>Please do not touch this Spell... you have no idea how much it owns in PvP.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Exur - 70 Coercer</p><p>Venekor</p>

[Panzerschrek]

Agreed!  I have no doubt that it's great in PVP, but I know that the devs have changed spells in PVE and left them untouched in PVP in the past, I suggest it been done again in this case. 

[Wrapye]

The spell line was useless well before PvP existed, per se.  With the revamp to epics and mobs in general that took place around LU13, many mobs either don't use power or use very little power in order to curb the impact of power drain spells and abilities.  Almost every class has at least one power drain ability.  We have four, I think. The consequence of that was to make the cataclysmic line all but worthless.  I remember testing it by attacking a corpse flame, casting CM (master 1) on it and letting it attack me.  The parse showed it was taking 200-250 points of damage each time it cast.  Ooh - Aah. LU13 changed the way that a fair number of our spells operate for the worse.  Lockeye has had plenty of time to think of something for these abilities to do in a PvE environment (better than 1.5 years).  I haven't seen anything yet so I'm guessing he just doesn't care.

[Alaeth]

The underlying problem for PvE use of this spell is that mobs don't receive upgraded versions of their spells/CAs--so, for example, a level 70 wizard mob is still going to cast Lightning Burst for 5 power, as opposed to a PC wizard who would cast Sunstrike for 93 power.  The damage from mob spells is scaled to be level-appropriate, but power usage remains the same as the original spell.  Also, when it comes to mob spells which have no PC-castable counterparts, the power usage is usually just 0.  Granted, the disparity between player and mob health pools--not to mention the programmed delay between mob ability uses, where players tend to spam abilities--makes it so that Cataclysmic Mind would never be as useful in PvE as it is in PvP, but making mobs actually consume power in amounts appropriate for their level would help somewhat.

[Momolicio]

So I was talkin with a friend of mine who has a Coercer alt he 2 boxes with his Wiz. I mention Cata, Tyranical for him, and Scourge do not mix. He tells me I am wrong. I was in labs and couldnt find an instance where Cata and Convuslions went off together. So afterwards I checked logs. Looks like itt is working, at least now. I wouldnt blink at all if it didnt work yesterday, or before the patch. Things seem to just start working an stop working sometimes. (118014471<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Fri May 25 18:58:38 2007] a fetidthorn horror's Fire hits YOU for 105 heat damage. (118014471<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Fri May 25 18:58:38 2007] YOUR Convulsions hits a fetidthorn horror for 1094 mental damage. (118014471<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Fri May 25 18:58:38 2007] A fetidthorn horror convulses in agony! (118014471<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Fri May 25 18:58:38 2007] You writhe in pain! (118014471<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Fri May 25 18:58:38 2007] YOUR Cataclysmic Mind hits a fetidthorn horror for 429 mental damage. (118014471<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Fri May 25 18:58:38 2007] A fetidthorn horror can move again. (118014471<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Fri May 25 18:58:38 2007] YOUR Perilous Gaze hits a fetidthorn horror for 202 mental damage. (118014471<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Fri May 25 18:58:38 2007] YOUR Perilous Gaze confounds a fetidthorn horror draining 61 points of power. (1180144721)[Fri May 25 18:58:41 2007] a fetidthorn horror tries to crush YOU, but misses. (1180144723)[Fri May 25 18:58:43 2007] YOUR Perilous Gaze hits a fetidthorn horror for 190 mental damage. (1180144723)[Fri May 25 18:58:43 2007] YOUR Perilous Gaze confounds a fetidthorn horror draining 61 points of power. (1180144723)[Fri May 25 18:58:43 2007] A fetidthorn horror clears Its mind. (1180144724)[Fri May 25 18:58:44 2007] Elemental energy begins to coalesce about A fetidthorn horror. (1180144726)[Fri May 25 18:58:46 2007] YOUR Convulsions hits a fetidthorn horror for 1220 mental damage. (1180144726)[Fri May 25 18:58:46 2007] A fetidthorn horror convulses in agony! (1180144726)[Fri May 25 18:58:46 2007] You are ensnared by grasping roots! (1180144726)[Fri May 25 18:58:46 2007] YOUR Cataclysmic Mind hits a fetidthorn horror for 573 mental damage. (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] a Doomwing firedrake's Wild Swing hits Cannonfauder for 1536 slashing damage. (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] Haothi's Vengeful Faith heals Cannonfauder for 404 hit points. (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] Cannonfauder feels the effects of a vengeful faith. (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] YOUR Convulsions hits a Doomwing firedrake for 2319 mental damage. (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] A Doomwing firedrake convulses in agony! (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] A Doomwing firedrake takes reprisal damage! (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] Cannonfauder's Thornstorm hits a Doomwing firedrake for 40 piercing damage. (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] Cannonfauder is struck with a well executed attack. (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] Arshai's Lore's Euphuistic Romp confounds a Doomwing firedrake draining 27 points of power. (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] Arshai's Lore's Euphuistic Romp hits a Doomwing firedrake for 27 mental damage. (1180146436)[Fri May 25 19:27:16 2007] YOUR Cataclysmic Mind hits a Doomwing firedrake for 503 mental damage.

[redde]

I agree that this spell needs some looking at for PvE purposes. As far as I'm concerned, this spell is a more expensive version of auspex that triggers less frequently for less damage. Looking at some recent parses I see that the torment line of spells accounts for about 2% of my damage.. <b> One suggestion I have is to change the spell from "whenever target spends power points" to "whenever target loses power points" so that power drain spells would also trigger the spell. The benefit of this would be 2 fold - our useless cataclysmic mind spell will have a use, and the (mostly useless) power drain components of some of our other spells would start to mean something! </b> I'm not sure how this would affect balance, perhaps the % should be modified as a result? What do you guys think?

[madha]

<p>I would realy like this spell looked at as well. only thing its good for is killing wizards in duels.. Fun as heck when they MB with it up =P.  Changing it to anytime the mob looses power would be good enough for me to put it back on my hot bar, maybe add a debuff to it like slows cast timers. SInce every ability we have is negated by another ability I dont see a prob with the debuff.</p>

[Sydias]

<cite>Obsidiann wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sydias wrote:</cite><blockquote>It does work in PvE.  However, it does nowhere near as much damage as Spell Scourge and it seems that if you have both Spell Scourge and Cataclysmic mind on at the same time, only Cataclysmic mind works.</blockquote> Huh? Okay then explain this: There's an assassin mob in Vaults that uses an AOE every 20-30 seconds. If I ONLY cast Cataclysmic Mind, Spell Scourge and Auspex, when the mob casts its AOE all 3 hit and go off at the same time. I also see this on other mobs that use melee AOEs. I think that's BS that Cataclysmic mind doesn't work when Spell Scourge is on. </blockquote> I have never noticed the damage from Spell Scourge when I have Cataclysmic mind active.  This is while I was out working solo.  I will have to try it again and see.  If I'm wrong then yay!