Hybrid??? Please Explain.

[Controlor]

I dont play a bruiser (have only a lvl 30 monk) but i tool around the servers and you brawlers constantly say your hybrids. DO explain what your a hybrid of please. I should say people keep commenting that your the true hybrids and everyone else is just hybrid # so and so.... Now where i am coming from (and you prob see as ignorance) is this. The true and original hybrids are crusaders and bards. And that monks are a pure class. <b>Crusaders: </b> Paladin = templar / warrior (hybrid) Shadowknight = necro / warrior (hybrid) <b>Bards:</b> Troubador = illusionist / rogue (hybrid) Dirge = coercer / rogue (hybrid) This was the case in EQ1 and is the case in EQ2 where those 2 classes were the original true hybrids (rangers in eq1 were also a hybrid but are now a pure class they were druid / rogue). And later in EQ1 BL were a hybrid class of shaman / monk mix but they dont exist here so i dont care about them. Now to add to the hybrids in EQ2 other than crusader and bards we have. <b>Rogues:</b> Swashy and Brig are warrior / assassin (hybrid) I can even see the argument as a druid being a hybrid in EQ2 a mix between healer and wizard or warlock what have you but really they still are a pure class. Now down to the point. A hybrid is a class that is mixed between 2 main archtype (or pure) classes. In EQ1 monks were a pure class they were not hybrids. They posess pretty much same skills that defined the class in EQ2 as they did in EQ1 (FD, mend, hand to hand, leather wearers). However in EQ1 they were support and here they threw em as tanks thats the ONLY thing i may consider it being as a hybrid. But as i see it brawlers are a pure class and not a hybrid. What are you mixed with??? Warrior and what??? No pure archtype i can see that you have been mixed with to get skills from both types of trees. Where as the true hybrids get them. So please explain to a non brawler how you consider yourself hybrids.

[Novusod]

A Bard is not a hybrid they are staight utility. A bruiser is a hybrid because it is tank, healer, and dps all in one.

[Controlor]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>A Bard is not a hybrid they are staight utility. A bruiser is a hybrid because it is tank, healer, and dps all in one. </blockquote>So it is not hybrid in the sense of what a hybrid is truely as a mixture of 2 seperate pure classes. But is hybrid in the sense that you can do diff things and thus are a hybrid. Thing is brawlers dont really sacrafice much to dps vs tank sept switch stance (again this could be ignorance talking) where a crusader to boost dps is more than switching stances (whole seperate aa's and even seperate gear). And bards are a hybrid. Going by the fact that a hybrid is a mix between two class types. Look at their skills. Just because they can buff doesnt mean they are a pure class. Their skills are lesser than that of the 2 classes they stem from. Take dirges they can later on charm (from coercer). Have hate transfer (from coercer). Have stealth attacks and back stabs (from assassin). All of which are to a lesser degree than the original pure classes. They are hybrids. Still dont see how a brawler is. I agree they should have high dps and be able to tank (at least have the highest dps vs single target of the tanks). But being able to dps and to tank doesnt qualify hybrid. Again 1 heal doesnt make healer. Necros have more than 1 heal and would never call them healers.

[Bobbette]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>A Bard is not a hybrid they are staight utility. A bruiser is a hybrid because it is tank, healer, and dps all in one. </blockquote>So it is not hybrid in the sense of what a hybrid is truely as a mixture of 2 seperate pure classes. But is hybrid in the sense that you can do diff things and thus are a hybrid. Thing is brawlers dont really sacrafice much to dps vs tank sept switch stance (again this could be ignorance talking) where a crusader to boost dps is more than switching stances (whole seperate aa's and even seperate gear). And bards are a hybrid. Going by the fact that a hybrid is a mix between two class types. Look at their skills. Just because they can buff doesnt mean they are a pure class. Their skills are lesser than that of the 2 classes they stem from. Take dirges they can later on charm (from coercer). Have hate transfer (from coercer). Have stealth attacks and back stabs (from assassin). All of which are to a lesser degree than the original pure classes. They are hybrids. Still dont see how a brawler is. I agree they should have high dps and be able to tank (at least have the highest dps vs single target of the tanks). But being able to dps and to tank doesnt qualify hybrid. Again 1 heal doesnt make healer. Necros have more than 1 heal and would never call them healers. </blockquote>I wouldn't call bruisers a real hybrid.  My SK is a true hybrid, and you can tell this because she has 2 distinct pages in her skill book -- one for spells and one for combat arts.  My bruiser only has a page for combat arts.  I would imagine that bards also have the two pages, spells and combat arts. As for the comment about AAs, every class has AAs that support various functions of their class to further define them.  Even the guardians/bezerkers have AAs that further support dps or further support tanking and they are clearly not hybrids.

[Madmoon]

<p>Yes, in the real sense of the word, we are not hybrids.  People who say we are do not understand the term.  Paladins, bards, shadowknights are all hybrids - a melding of two classes.  No two classes, nor their ethos, went into the concept of a brawler.  Since the beginning there has been a leather-clad martial arts fighter in EQ.  You can argue wether that fits into a fantasy realm or not, but that is not germane.</p><p>People have mistakenly looked at the abilities of a brawler and seen aspects of other classes, and thus considered them hybrids.  But the same can be done to any class, if you reduce it far enough.  For example, a Templar has the healing power of a druid, the plate wearing ability of a guardian and the undead offensive powers of a Necromancer... thus a hybrid.  Which is, of course, hooey.</p>

[RustyB]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont play a bruiser (have only a lvl 30 monk) but i tool around the servers and you brawlers constantly say your hybrids. DO explain what your a hybrid of please. I should say people keep commenting that your the true hybrids and everyone else is just hybrid # so and so.... Now where i am coming from (and you prob see as ignorance) is this. The true and original hybrids are crusaders and bards. And that monks are a pure class. <b>Crusaders: </b> Paladin = templar / warrior (hybrid) <b><span style="font-size: small">Shadowknight = necro / warrior (hybrid) </span>Bards:</b> Troubador = illusionist / rogue (hybrid) Dirge = coercer / rogue (hybrid) This was the case in EQ1 and is the case in EQ2 where those 2 classes were the original true hybrids (rangers in eq1 were also a hybrid but are now a pure class they were druid / rogue). And later in EQ1 BL were a hybrid class of shaman / monk mix but they dont exist here so i dont care about them. Now to add to the hybrids in EQ2 other than crusader and bards we have. <b>Rogues:</b> Swashy and Brig are warrior / assassin (hybrid) I can even see the argument as a druid being a hybrid in EQ2 a mix between healer and wizard or warlock what have you but really they still are a pure class. Now down to the point. A hybrid is a class that is mixed between 2 main archtype (or pure) classes. In EQ1 monks were a pure class they were not hybrids. They posess pretty much same skills that defined the class in EQ2 as they did in EQ1 (FD, mend, hand to hand, leather wearers). However in EQ1 they were support and here they threw em as tanks thats the ONLY thing i may consider it being as a hybrid. But as i see it brawlers are a pure class and not a hybrid. What are you mixed with??? Warrior and what??? No pure archtype i can see that you have been mixed with to get skills from both types of trees. Where as the true hybrids get them. So please explain to a non brawler how you consider yourself hybrids. </blockquote><p>would sk is more like a warlock/  warrior hybrid, but that's beyond the point.    like it's been said in previous posts  we can heal, tank and dps and even a tiny bit of crowd control  even though  soe nerfed the crap out of it when KoS was released. </p>

[Controlor]

Sorry to post this reply Rusty but waaaaaa?????? SK's get to summon an undead pet, fd, invis, lifetap, have a bunch of spells that have death dieing and what not in the name. Thats necro teritory not warlock. sure sk's get aoes but so do paladins but anyways. Ty madmoon for the reply (and all of those who replied) i just kept getting baffled at it and couldnt explain to myself as how they were a meld of 2 classes /shrugs. I shall leave you all alone now sorry for anny annoyance.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>A Bard is not a hybrid they are staight utility. A bruiser is a hybrid because it is tank, healer, and dps all in one. </blockquote>So it is not hybrid in the sense of what a hybrid is truely as a mixture of 2 seperate pure classes. But is hybrid in the sense that you can do diff things and thus are a hybrid. Thing is brawlers dont really sacrafice much to dps vs tank sept switch stance (again this could be ignorance talking) where a crusader to boost dps is more than switching stances (whole seperate aa's and even seperate gear). And bards are a hybrid. Going by the fact that a hybrid is a mix between two class types. Look at their skills. Just because they can buff doesnt mean they are a pure class. Their skills are lesser than that of the 2 classes they stem from. Take dirges they can later on charm (from coercer). Have hate transfer (from coercer). Have stealth attacks and back stabs (from assassin). All of which are to a lesser degree than the original pure classes. They are hybrids. Still dont see how a brawler is. I agree they should have high dps and be able to tank (at least have the highest dps vs single target of the tanks). But being able to dps and to tank doesnt qualify hybrid. Again 1 heal doesnt make healer. Necros have more than 1 heal and would never call them healers. </blockquote>Hybrid, as you describe it as a mixture of 2 classes, does not exist in EQ2.  Every class has unique abilities instead of watered down abiltiies from other classes.

[tt66]

Normally you mostly see bruisers called "hybrids" in reference to Raiding,  and I think part of it is a holdover from other MMOs. "Hybrid" really refers to the bruisers role in a raid. (cf: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=360574" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">At What Point Are We Going To Get Fixed</a>) Most Bruisers don't tank epics as well as plate classes (so not a "tank" class), nor do they dps as well as a scout class (so not a "DPS" class). "Hybrid" is merely shorthand for "not as good as a pure class, but we've got space to fill in the raid and it's better than nothing and hey.. I hear they have <i>drag</i> now".

[Sir_Halbarad]

Hybrid • n. a thing made by combining two different elements Bards aren't hybrids <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Never were. I remember the outcry from the bards when the class tree was released in early 2004. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> "We ARENT Scouts! We are BARDS!"... hehe The old meaning of hybrid is from EQ1 where you have 4 (and not more) hybrids: Paladin - Warrior / Templar SK - Warrior / Necromancer Ranger - Warrior / Druid Beastlord - Mong / Shaman Brawlers aren't hybrids in the EQ1 meaning of the way. They are hybrids in a Raiding way though, being a mix of a tank and a dps. They can fill both roles but need a good/perfect grp setup compared to a pure tank or a pure dps.

[eyes007]

<p>Yes there is misrepresentation of the word "Hybrid" but in this case the fault lies with the EQ1 hardcore.</p><p>As this is a far different game than EQ1, you have to think in EQ2 terms rather than EQ1 legacy. The combat is different, the class make up is different and overall the whole balance is much different. Do not forget that EQ1 lore had race and divinity decide what class you could play, where as EQ2 it is much different, it's the base alignment and class that determined the character, race and divinty had no input into that decision at creation, a aesthetic choice.</p><p>So while in EQ1 Hybrid = Multi-Class</p><p>Hybrid in EQ2 = Multi-Skillset</p><p>A paladin in EQ1 = Warrior/Templar</p><p>A paladin in EQ2 = Tanking/Healing</p><p>A monk in EQ1 = Pure class, not a mixture of any two or more classes = Pure</p><p>A monk in EQ2 = DPS/Tanking = Hybrid</p><p>Try not to think of this game in EQ1 terms, you will just get confused. Nowadays lore and roleplaying has been put aside for flexibility and support roles. The true hybrids in EQ2 were in the first year of EQ2, Warriors, Brawlers, Crusaders, Summoners, Enchanters, Elementalists, Predators, Bards, Rogues, Clerics, Druids and Shamans. This determined whether you wanted to play an offensive or defensive inclined version of your class, except alignment limitations meant some classes could only choose the good or evil version. that's why hybrids in EQ2 deserves it's own meaning.</p>

[Madmoon]

Dredonvani@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote><p>Yes there is misrepresentation of the word "Hybrid" but in this case the fault lies with the EQ1 hardcore.</p><p>So while in EQ1 Hybrid = Multi-Class</p><p>Hybrid in EQ2 = Multi-Skillset</p><p>A paladin in EQ1 = Warrior/Templar</p><p>A paladin in EQ2 = Tanking/Healing</p><p>A monk in EQ1 = Pure class, not a mixture of any two or more classes = Pure</p><p>A monk in EQ2 = DPS/Tanking = Hybrid</p></blockquote><p>Don't want to start a flame-war here, but that's not at all what hybrid means.  You can, I suppose, say that, "Well, in EQ2 we are going to define the word this way," but pretty soon each game will have it's own defintion of the same word, which is a bit impractical, to say the least.  Imagine the conversation: "Do you mean an Eq1 hybrid, an EQ2, a WoW, a DAoC or a Vanguard hybrid?"  A hybrid is two things into one.  I am not going to say categorically which classes comprise the definition, but most would list paladins and shadowknights in EQ2.</p><p>EQ1, the monk was a tank, too, with pretty much the same limitations as here.  We always picked up a monk as a fighter when we needed one, behind the plate classes in certain situations.  But we never sat at Chardok or Karnors saying, "Well, we can't go in, we've only got a monk." And I disagree with the idea that we are hybrids even with your definition.  We are tanks.  Pure tanks, as much as guardians, berserkers, paladins and shadowknights.  We may not be the best for a given situation, but those situations are few and far between.  I don't think it's an issue on raids, but I will grant that one <i>can</i> have the discussion.  However, in small groups and full groups, there is NO content where a bruiser or a monk cannot be the lead fighter.  There's not an instance or dungeon where I have not been the only fighter, and we have done well, very well.  And <i>that</i> content, coupled with all the outdoor/duo-trio content, makes up the vast, vast majority of the game.</p>

[Karlen]

I think of my Paladin as a hybrid since I can be main tank for my group or I can join a group and be main healer (although really more like half a healer -- trying to be main healer for a group of more than 3-4 can be tough). Generally, any priest class will be a better healer than me, but pretty much no other class comes close.