Tanking T7

[Ivellious]

Hello, I've played Guardian on/off for 2 1/2 years, most of that was afk due to money and time problems, rl getting in way sucks doesn't it.  My question is, since I'm currently capped at 60, have been for very long time, does the tanking get better in t7.  Let me explain this, awhile back while I played many many times I was stated as one of the best tanks people have seen, I was even offered a main tank role in a big raiding guild if I can ever get to 70, which if walmart hurries won't be long, but off topic.  Anyway, I notice the wizards/locks/necros/any dps starts getting huges hits, alot bigger then I'm used to in the t6 area, the only thing i have to worry about now is pulling a mob with arrow and wiz starts casting ice comet on pull, short story short either my rescue is used, retaliation, or thats a dead wiz.  I know how to use my skills, the only thing i have a problem with is power conservation.  does the skill upgrades help the hate control so those dps's aren't just pulling it clear off me, or do I have to rethink how I tank.  Do the AA's help me enough, I was thinking on heading down str/wis for my AA's for increased hate and Mit.  Just asking you end game guardies on you're opinions.

[Yourbestfriend]

Sta/Str lines for keeping agro. R E I N F O R C E M E N T and burn E G O

[salle]

If some dps-class is stupid enough to do major damage on pull, let him/her die. "Agro management" is and always will be a group effort. From t6 to t7 I'd say what has changed (atleast in how I tank) is that I think more about doing damage now, both increasing auto attack and getting more power regen so that I can use more CAs. This might be because we didn't get much in the form of taunt increases with AA's. I went STR and INT on my warrior AA, don't l ike the idea of tanking with a buckler. 

[forge32]

<p>str/intel lines the way to go if not going str /stam line with buckler. i myself dont really want to go with buckler so use str/intel agro control very good.Also mit is a thing of the past eof is all about  avoidence less bout mit not like it used to be. Mit has a soft cap now atm dont recall the correct amount  but self buffed im like near 5 k mit raid buffed and 30 sec buff way over 8 k which is  plenty. with my self buffed avoidence hitting 8500 + i take alot less dmg.</p><p>70 guard  100 aa on everfrost.</p>

[Ivellious]

<p>Thanks for the advice guys, I do like the way STR/INT look, I myself didn't want to go sta, I'm a guardian give me a tower, I'll settle with a kite, leave the bucklers to priests =D, anyway, I use reinforcement alot now, so that won't be hard, anyway, thanks again guys.  Got EoF today, so I'll be able to figure all this out for myself now, let the new adventure begin!</p>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<cite>Ivellious wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thanks for the advice guys, I do like the way STR/INT look, I myself didn't want to go sta, I'm a guardian give me a tower, I'll settle with a kite, leave the bucklers to priests =D, anyway, I use reinforcement alot now, so that won't be hard, anyway, thanks again guys.  Got EoF today, so I'll be able to figure all this out for myself now, let the new adventure begin!</p></blockquote>I am sorry if I bust your bubble about the "I wield a tower shield - I am a Tank" illusion. The duty of the tank is to stay alive while keeping aggro. Every Tank can stay alive with a half balanced group, so I take this as a given. If you can't stay alive on yellow content, you need to check your gear. What makes a group a splendid experience or a tiring crawl is tank's aggro. For aggro, a tank can't rely on his taunts. At the moment, taunts are good to pop during positioning and when mobs get loose. During normal fights, hate is generated through damage. Whether you like it or not (I personally hated it), Buckler spec is the best way to keep aggro without losing any survivability. Sure, I have to be more aware now what I pull... Do I pull it in Off Stance - Def Stance. with Tower of Stone?. But after that pull is done, I tank everything I can in off stance with buckler.... So far there are only a few exceptions... Vyemm combined Alzid Prime... Treyloth in FTH Velktath (spelling) in MIS We didnt get through all EoF Content.. but in KoS, I think the only mobs I cant tank in offensive with buckler are Vyemm and Alzid together and of course Vilucidae in his last stance. The essential meaning: Tanking isn't about looking good - it is about getting the job done. STA AA gets the job done better than everything else. Join the Dinner Plates <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[danmuntz]

Halbarad@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>Ivellious wrote: Whether you like it or not (I personally hated it), Buckler spec is the best way to keep aggro without losing any survivability. </blockquote>Wow, you can go buckler spec and not lose ANY survivability?  Impressive <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Sir_Halbarad]

Anap@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Halbarad@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>Ivellious wrote: Whether you like it or not (I personally hated it), Buckler spec is the best way to keep aggro without losing any survivability. </blockquote>Wow, you can go buckler spec and not lose ANY survivability?  Impressive <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Not really. For hard mobs you pull with tower of stone and switch to buckler after the encounter is debuffed. And you don't need the few block %'s from the tower for a debuffed mob. Maybe if you are standing at the broker and compare the numbers in your persona window, you of course see your avoidance higher with a tower shield. But avoidance means nothing on an epic when pulled. Ask the dead Brawlers... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I think that after debuffs your survivability actually is higher with buckler... -> You do more dps -> Your aggro is better -> The Raid can do more dps -> the mob is dead faster. I said it before, but will say it again. If you do 15% more dps the raid can do 15% more which means the mob swings 15% less (dead sooner). These 15% are REALLY uncontested avoidance <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Mechase]

Tower shields are no longer the end all be all for tanking. I tank in offensive stance with a buckler all the time now with the exception of named pulls in zones like EH, then I just wait for the mob to be debuffed and switch back to the plate, easy enough. The difference in holding aggro with a buckler is very noticeable because the dps boost is huge. Since your not in t7 content, the first thing that comes to mind is going to PoA and getting yourself an Ironplate Shielding buckler if you should decide to go that route. It's easily attainable and one of the best bucklers you can get as you level up. Oh and anyone opening up on the pull with something like Ice Comet should be flogged, Reinforcement might keep them alive but thats asking for trouble.

[HomeChicken]

yah im a big fan of offensive stance + buckler there are only a handfull of mobs that i bother switching out of that to tank and thats just because well i just recently started sticking with that setup so my healers need a few raids to adjust, but so far all of mmis / fth / almost all of EH (used def stance / towershield for rumbler and treah until the adds were dead) tanked in off stance with a crappy buckler (flesh buckler) not realy noticing a HUGE difference tbh in damage, but definitely diggin the agro control

[Ep]

you can still tank w/ a tower shield while your raid "goes all out" my guild raids are 25-30k, and believe me, they do not want to hold back on trash. i can hold aggro over mostly all but the most over zealous, lucky crit warlocks. just asking them to wait 2seconds to plant is too much heh, but who wants to wait forever clearing trash. however i put on my taunting gear when we do trash mobs, not the "get hit, and taunt" kind, but the newer, do melee hit and encounter taunt kind, sash of spurned, vikot cloak, mayong earing, cheldrak legs(not encounter but better than trying to get hit). You can basically shelf the hurri bp and hurri bracers if you have em, cuz if your tanking w/ a tower, then you most likely have so much avoidance they won't even proc. I'd even want the trash tower off of fth, but why is that so rare(comes off 2nd named too). in short, you can tank w/ tower, but why would you, if you get parry adorns and go defensive spec sta(4/4/8/<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> your 95% better off w/ a buckler for aggro/avoidance.

[rubels]

<p>The true diffrence in the specs tower vs buckler is aggromanagment at the cost of survivability. </p><p>The buckler spec provides a decent guardian the ability to hold a 21 - 25 k parse with ez. The trade off being the higher avoid and mit factors. On the other hand Tower specs retake the lead with the proper hate gear to make up for the aggro control bonus. Examples of gear that puts tower ahead of buckler spec with the bonus over the buckler being. Codex Greeves , Cape Of Vikomot (sp) , Tower Shield Of Strife , Grimm Earring Of Night etc.</p><p>The above will allow the tank to maintain that 21 - 25 k parse aggro control and retain the beenys of a tower spec. Just my 2 cent</p><p>- Krovax</p>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>The fundamental thing is;</p><p>A buckler-specced Guard can pull a tower shield and get all the benefit.</p><p>A tower-specced Guard cannot pull a buckler and get any benefit.</p><p>If there was some kind of tower shield AA line that offered genuine survivability increases then there'd be room for debate. But there ain't.</p>

[Snorm]

<p>Nearly, but not quite all. While buckler specced, if you put on a tower, you're basicaly tanking like you're missing however many AA's you put into the sta line. Well, you keep the Sta itself, but who cares.</p><p> If you were actually specced for a tower build, that's 10% raw hate, some crit chances, more parry, etc. that you could have while wearing a tower that you don't,  depending on how you wanted to allocate those points and what other line you went down with Sta.</p><p>Snorm -- 70 Guard</p>