Possible good idea for tell filtering

[Derrmerth2]

<p>And so gose the epic struggle of player vs spammer. I don't know if my idea has been suggested, but I don't think it has. Time after time someone has thrown out the idea of a world wide chat filter. But this idea had a bit too many holes in it like server clog and spammers working around it. But a few days ago a modification of this idea struck me and it just might be a really good idea. So I'll need some objective review here.</p><p>This idea hinges on the theory that the bad language filter is done client side. If so would it be a better idea to give the player the tools to use and manage thier own client side chat filter based off the bad lang filter software? This would take care of the two big issues that a general filter fell to. One would be no load on the server. Your tells are delayed a bit or more as the text comparison is done on your PC and not on the whole worlds server. Next this really hurts the issue of word modification from spammers. Since there won't be a "golden rule" to act against, thier ability to adapt is virtually destroyed. Each player will also be in control of thier own filter so they can do what ever they wish and this of course would take a bit off the backs of the Devs. Lets face it, I'm sure they'd be all for moving some of the control resposibilities to the players.</p><p>Tell me what you think and be fair.</p>

[Lilj]

It sounds complicated to me. I wouldn't even know where to start as a user of this system and I know myself enough to know I will refuse to read a manual to understand such a system. I'm sure some players will like this and will have a good use of it. But I can't help thinking it is too complicated and will alienate lots of players, so they won't use it. And it won't ruin the plat sellers business. Those people that want to buy plat will still be able to do it. So nothing has changed other than some players will be able to avoid some spam. I guess the question is, is it worth it?

[Derrmerth2]

Nope, it would't be that complicated. It would be very much like the ignore list is now. You would type in a text word like you add a name and when a tell is sent containing that text it would be truncated in the same manner. Opertaion and coding of the tool should be reletively simple if I recall my C++/C.

[erin]

Something like "add_to_filter www.spammersite.com" or something equally simple.  Then if you get a tell with that exact wording in it, regardless of capitalization, it never gets to you. I see lots of holes, but shoot, at this point I'm up for anything.  I literally can't log in without getting hit by these people.

[ArivenGemini]

<cite>Derrmerth2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And so gose the epic struggle of player vs spammer. I don't know if my idea has been suggested, but I don't think it has. Time after time someone has thrown out the idea of a world wide chat filter. But this idea had a bit too many holes in it like server clog and spammers working around it. But a few days ago a modification of this idea struck me and it just might be a really good idea. So I'll need some objective review here.</p><p>This idea hinges on the theory that the bad language filter is done client side. If so would it be a better idea to give the player the tools to use and manage thier own client side chat filter based off the bad lang filter software? This would take care of the two big issues that a general filter fell to. One would be no load on the server. Your tells are delayed a bit or more as the text comparison is done on your PC and not on the whole worlds server. Next this really hurts the issue of word modification from spammers. Since there won't be a "golden rule" to act against, thier ability to adapt is virtually destroyed. Each player will also be in control of thier own filter so they can do what ever they wish and this of course would take a bit off the backs of the Devs. Lets face it, I'm sure they'd be all for moving some of the control resposibilities to the players.</p><p>Tell me what you think and be fair.</p></blockquote> I dont think a client side/player controlled one would be as good a help as a server side one.  Simply because it wouldnt be used by the people succeptable to buying gold from ads, nor would it be applied on anyone who doesn't know about it.. i.e. anyone who doesnt read the patch notes.. And yeah, there are enough people who dont read em to make it noticibly different in effect.

[ArivenGemini]

oh another thing..  obviously these people have to hit quite a few people to make it worth their time before they get banned. So, why not a /tell throttle?  Maybe one that goes into effect below say level 20. IRC has a message throttle, so do other chat mediums..  if they cant chat more than a few times a minute, then it will make it harder on them.

[Derrmerth2]

<p><b>Erin</b></p><p>Agreed, it isn't perfect. But I don't think we can find a solution that dose not affect the gameplay of legit players negatively. Either by loss of server speed or reduced gameplay. This idea shoudn't do either which is great but it may not be perfect. But I think its a far cry better then nothing.</p><p><b>ArivenGemini</b> </p><p>A server side chat filter would cut down on pefromance for all. A client side moves those processing cycles to the player preventing chat lag for all. As for the people that are succeptable to buy gold adds, I'm pretty sure they aren't the ones complaining on the forums every day. Nuts to them. It may also take some time for evry one to learn about it cause they can't read, but once the tools are in place we can all just say "Read teh patch no3ts n00b!"</p><p>Just like that in fact.</p><p>As for tell throttling that very well could be a good idea, but I bet good gold there would be legit player complaints. Something I'd like to advoid but perhaps the community at large may over rule them.</p>

[Derrmerth2]

As annoying as it possibly might be, I thought a one time pop up in game would be a good way for every one to find out that it is there for the non patch notes readers.

[Tanan]

I think that if this were to be used then it should be for all channels.  Once they figure out that /tells aren't getting to the people, the spam would just go to the world channels.  I have already seen the plat sellers doing this and I surprised that it doesn't happen more often.  Everyone sees it and they only have to hit a few channels.  The crafting, traders, and level 1-9 chat would cover almost everyone from each town in less than a minute.  I certainly don't want them to spam those channels all the time.

[Derrmerth2]

<p>Good idea for a feature. All chat channels and a 1 - 9 check mark box setup to apply filter to. That way you cover all your bases. Shouldn't be too hard.</p>

[Lilj]

<cite>Derrmerth2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nope, it would't be that complicated. It would be very much like the ignore list is now. You would type in a text word like you add a name and when a tell is sent containing that text it would be truncated in the same manner. Opertaion and coding of the tool should be reletively simple if I recall my C++/C.</blockquote>I am talking about the useability. The difficulty is perhaps not so much in actually typing the word that should be filtered (although my guess is, it will be difficult for some), but deciding what word/words that should be typed in. Could you come with concrete examples of words you would put in such a filter that would not interfere with your gameplay?

[Derrmerth2]

<p>Pretty much text only involved with spam tells. Generally varitions of thier web site address. So <a href="http://www.whoever.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.whoever.com</a> or net would be the starter. That way anything containing that/those web address(es) you wish to block would be stopped. As time gose on the user could add variations of the website or others words they feel are safe enough to add to the list. It all depends on how the user feels, but for example I've never gotten a legit tell containing "Powerlevel", "Coupon", or perhaps "bonus points". I'd so put those on my list.</p><p>Using good string storage with tolerance to white space, one should be able to program in the ability to do maybe two word phrases and let the words themselves be let by.</p>

[aardda]

<p>Filters are very easily bypassed by determined people using a little bit of creativity with spacing and spelling.</p><p>What i would rather have is a game option allowing you to configure who can contact you by either tell or by mail. Maybe something along the lines of -></p><p>Options -> Chat -> Deaf Mode</p><p>Once enabled you could configure it to allow certain sections bypass the block, such as</p><p>friend list guild members levels 1-10 levels 11-20 levels 21-30 etc</p><p>By doing it clientside they would still be able to send their spam and assume its getting through. By blocking it at the source they're more likely to realise they aren't welcome.</p>

[Derrmerth2]

<p>Yes chat filters can be easily bypassed, this is why I would rather have it client based. As I mentioned (I think I did) when you do a filter, you do a "golden rule". A standard that goes for everyone. The two issues are that some people may not like it and that spammers know exactly what to do to get around it. Putting said filter client side makes it harder to adapt to (not impossible) and the big things is allows players thier own regulation. That is the biggest thing I like. Giving each player the ability to cutomize thier preferences so every ones happiness is in thier own hands.</p><p>As for if they know it is blocked, an automated reply like an AFK messgae could say something informative to the vilolater. You used bad words or blocked text. Something clear and consise.</p>

[Lilj]

<cite>Derrmerth2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Pretty much text only involved with spam tells. Generally varitions of thier web site address. So <a href="http://www.whoever.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.whoever.com</a> or net would be the starter. That way anything containing that/those web address(es) you wish to block would be stopped. As time gose on the user could add variations of the website or others words they feel are safe enough to add to the list. It all depends on how the user feels, but for example I've never gotten a legit tell containing "Powerlevel", "Coupon", or perhaps "bonus points". I'd so put those on my list.</p><p>Using good string storage with tolerance to white space, one should be able to program in the ability to do maybe two word phrases and let the words themselves be let by.</p></blockquote> You never talk about real life in tells with friends and then perhaps mention coupons (from grocery shopping)? and you never mention power levelling or talk about it? You see, that was why I asked you, because when I see a plat tell/post, it consist of normal words. Words I would not like to filter, because they can occur in other talks over level channel/guild channel/tells/group. I guess the only one I could imagine would be the actual url of a plat selling site. Besides there is nothing wrong with power levelling, you can do it 'legal' within the game, so I don't see why anyone would want to filter out that word. I have never seen or heard about a word filter that was succesful in keeping the bad stuff away and letting the good stuff get through (I am thinking of email here) and that's why I don't believe in this idea. But I can see a lot of incomming CS tickets because of problems with a user-controlled wordfilter. As I said before a filter will not stop the platsellers, in fact it would very well make it easier on them. If all the legit players (those that don't buy plat) will be filtering the tells and mails, who are then left to report the plat sellers? If the legit people ignore them, the sellers have free rein and there will be no risk and no more bannings. I realise this is a bit crudely put, but I hope you see my general meaning.

[interstellarmatter]

<p>It is possible to use a chat filter to stem the tide of tells.  In the other game that I play *cough* WoW, I was getting 5 to 10 tells a hour from plat spammers.  They have a more open API/macro type interface in the game.  I downloaded one of the more popular 3rd party plat tell stoppers.  Basically, it's a filter type system.</p><p>It has stopped 95% of plat tell spams.  I may get one tell in a 5 to 6 hour play period now.</p>

[YummiOger]

<p>OR give me a Level Based tell filter, like the 60-69 world chat. give me the option to turn off all tells from a source under lv 60. by god.. ill make them level to talk to me! besides .. why would a normal lv 4 toon want to talk to a lv 60+?. i have no clue. </p><p>if i had a level based tell filter i could manually toggle the levels just as the world channels. and sending/reciveing tells would be just as EZ... /(60-69) 70 zerk LFG, send me a tell in 60-69.</p><p>that way .. a Ban would mean something to the Plat Seller cuz they had to invest the time to Lv the toon. even if it took 1 month to get to lv 70 (80 here soon), that would be 1 month quickly lost due to swift banning after the tells start. The only peeps who would buy Plat would be the Buyers who are hell bent on it by making a appropriate level toon to chat with the Seller.</p>

[Derrmerth2]

<p><b>Liljna wrote:</b></p><p><b>You never talk about real life in tells with friends and then perhaps mention coupons (from grocery shopping)? and you never mention power levelling or talk about it? You see, that was why I asked you, because when I see a plat tell/post, it consist of normal words. Words I would not like to filter, because they can occur in other talks over level channel/guild channel/tells/group. I guess the only one I could imagine would be the actual url of a plat selling site.</b></p><p>No I don't. Thats the wondeful thing I'm trying to explain. Each user can customize thier filter to thier topics. I promise you I have never talked legit conversations about coupons in game and I am very convienced I use the word powerlevel so little it wouldn't bother me to can it. If you do use the word, then don't filter it. Your choice. The sites would be basic but any one could add any word you want. In theory this could develope in a parental language control also but lets stick to topic. <b>Besides there is nothing wrong with power levelling, you can do it 'legal' within the game, so I don't see why anyone would want to filter out that word.</b></p><p>Never said there was. I just don't want to get tell about it or talk about it in general. My filter, my choice. This is also based on the fact that all the mentions of the words and its forms that I have recieved in a really long time is from spammers as a service offer in their tells. I wouldn't miss the word. <b>I have never seen or heard about a word filter that was succesful in keeping the bad stuff away and letting the good stuff get through (I am thinking of email here) and that's why I don't believe in this idea. But I can see a lot of incomming CS tickets because of problems with a user-controlled wordfilter.</b></p><p>True. Never claimed this was perfect. Just the best possible implementation of the idea I can see. Each person can decide what they think is "bad" or "good". No one is held to some one elses standard. I don't see thier would be that many CS tickets becuase the underlying thing would be "It's in your hands, take the word off if it's a problem. Leave it on if you don't care". Educating the user might be hard, but most of us are smart people and are capable of controlling such a tool. <b>As I said before a filter will not stop the platsellers, in fact it would very well make it easier on them. If all the legit players (those that don't buy plat) will be filtering the tells and mails, who are then left to report the plat sellers? If the legit people ignore them, the sellers have free rein and there will be no risk and no more bannings. I realise this is a bit crudely put, but I hope you see my general meaning.</b></p><p>At this point in time, we can't really stop plat sellers. This issue has been around for going on years now. SOE has banned so many accounts it ain't funny and they seem to be chugging along just fine, [Removed for Content] most of us off every day. But there is a different picture here. If a plat spammers spams in the game and no one legit is bothered, dose he really spam at all? (Tree in the woods type thing). We can not stop them from buying and creating accounts. Ms Cleo dose not have the time to assist SOE with predicting spammers. We can only stamp them out as they pop up, like weeds in a garden. But if we can't get rid of the weeds, maybe we can just keep them away from the flowers. </p>

[drkthings]

You people all make things so complicated. What do we want to stop? SPAM How can we identify spam? <ul><li>Level of player? NO</li><li>Content of tell? NO</li><li>Combination of difficult to code ideas from the forums? NO</li></ul>Let's consider what the "spammer" is doing. A list of recipients is referenced to send and advertisement to. Any of use that use act know there is a limit on the length of a tell. There also happens to be a time based limit on commands/tells, I think around 14 before I get cut off using the command to run a text file of commands. These two limitations are not enough to prevent the companies from spamming advertisements at players. I propose a unique recipient limit on tells. X number of unique recipients every X amount of time. Who really needs to send a tell to more than say 10 different people in a minute. I think this targets the way they abuse the game system to deliver thier advertisements, is effective, transparent to the average user, and easy to code. Thanks, <ul><li> </li></ul>

[Lilj]

I think I am afraid the game as a whole will suffer if we (the players) all cover us in cotton and set us up so we will only hear 'happy news'. You have already written you would like to filter other things than plat sellers tells (as you said 'my filter, my choice'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but I don't see a user-defined chat filter as a healthy thing for the game as a whole. In my opinion it is important that the in-game community is healthy and communicates, a user-defined chatfilter will risk impede the in-game communication. I realise you just want to be left alone and use your filter and remove all the 'nonsense'. And in some ways it is not a problem, as long as we look at it at a small scale. But for the game community I doubt it is healthy. Imagine a day in the future where you try and gather a group and you never receive a tell back from the people you invited, because the other players had your tells filtered out for some reason or another. Since all our filters are user-defined, we have no idea if our tells are ever received or not. For some reason I see a tower of Babel for my inner eye <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Norrsken]

Id love for soe to start filtering all the traffic with GMworker and the other URLs in them. Just flat out not allow those tells to go anywhere.

[Derrmerth2]

<p>Liljna wrote: Imagine a day in the future where you try and gather a group and you never receive a tell back from the people you invited, because the other players had your tells filtered out for some reason or another. Since all our filters are user-defined, we have no idea if our tells are ever received or not. For some reason I see a tower of Babel for my inner eye.</p><p>I would hope no one gets that crazy on thier filter, but thats a risk we run. Maybe people can stick to web addresses. It's the only thing I can think of to try and stave off the madness. Put send limits on tells would slow them, but if used properly this might put them out of your life forever.</p><p>Something > Nothing </p>

[DngrMou]

<cite>aarddave wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Filters are very easily bypassed by determined people using a little bit of creativity with spacing and spelling.</p></blockquote> A client side filter that returns no data to the sender of tell is not easy to bypass.  They won't know if they're filtered or not....they get nothing back.  Something else that compounds that problem, (for the spammers), they're not trying to defeat one larger server side filter...they have to individually defeat one for each player that's using the filter.

[aardda]

Youris@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>aarddave wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Filters are very easily bypassed by determined people using a little bit of creativity with spacing and spelling.</p></blockquote> A client side filter that returns no data to the sender of tell is not easy to bypass.  They won't know if they're filtered or not....they get nothing back.  Something else that compounds that problem, (for the spammers), they're not trying to defeat one larger server side filter...they have to individually defeat one for each player that's using the filter.</blockquote><p>Well yes, but that requires the burden of updating placed on the player. My way of thinking is that as a paying customer i shouldn't be subjected to this spam which clearly breaks the eula but having said that i'd be willing to try almost anything.</p><p>I suppose its the angry midget gnome living inside of me trying to escape, wants them to know their tell wasn't delivered, preferably with an automated response of 'f'off and leave me alone' <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Derrmerth2]

<p>Youris stated one of my points exactly. Now an automated message letting know they suck is still possible, I think I'd be for it. Let them know I hate them so much or something.</p><p>Now as for placing a burden on players, I don't see it like that. I look at it as customizable protection. You have control over how much you hate those tells. A lot of people go through the trouble of putting names on ignore or adding friends. It would be just as much burden (or effort) as that. In theory, no one should be bale to complain. They should also be able to choose to not use it at all. With the control completely in your hands, you can only complain to yourself. (But yes, someone somewhere will whine probably)</p>