Spell Order vs Timing

[zerothbase]

A little background: New wizard here. I've been playing since opening day of EQ2, but this is the first time I've leveled up and played a sorcerer class. My 2 mains characters are a 70 coercer and 70 conjuror. I raid about 3-4 times per week. I've noticed (though it's pretty obvious) that skill in this game plays a far larger part than any equipment/loot/spell quality (though the later certainly helps). For example, we have a very skilled swashy in our guild that is in mostly treasured/adept 3's (except for his weapon) that tends to top the parses (or get close to it), whereas we have fully fabled/mastered wizards that can't even make the parses (makes me sick). So I've decided to see how I fair as a wizard - and see if I've got what it takes to make the big parses. I do pretty well as a conjuror (I think anyway), but I wanted a change and to see what a T1 dps class is like. My highly subjective question is this: <b>Do you find that spell order or spell timing is more important for a Wizard to make the high parses? Assuming spell quality and equipment being equal.</b> (in case I'm not being clear about my definitions) <b>Spell Order</b> = cast spells A and B (in that order) before pull, C and D on pull, and then spells E through R in a cycle/pattern for the entire fight (and only cast Sunstrike err....spell S when you have nothing left to cast). <b>Spell Timing</b> = mash buttons as they repop (don't worry about order), but time your Fusions for aoe fights because you are smart about pull order in a zone and what mobs come up next. Time your manaburn's for certain fights that you know you have a few seconds of running time til the next pull to regen some power. Time certain spells for the beginning of a fight and others for the end. I assume that mastering both skills creates a synergy that really perfects the dps parse to get those 3k+ Lyceum zw's, but which do you see as more important for a wizard? For my conjuror, I find that spell order is more important, since all the spells are small dps, with fast cast and fast reuse. So I don't usually have to worry about whether or not a spell is going to be up in the next fight or not. It's pretty much just spell order, and then cycle in an order to minimize spells being available and waiting. DOTs first so they have more time to tick, and pet buffs before pull/on pull. Basically, does a wizard absolutely need to learn the layout of a zone and the order of pulls to get those 2k+ zw parses, or can just spell order get you pretty far? I have my own opinions, but I wanted to get some other thoughts on the subject. Thanks for any help on the issue. --70 Conjuror/Coercer and now new and improved with Wizard-goodness!

[JohnDoe058]

<cite>zerothbase wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>Spell Timing</b> = mash buttons as they repop (don't worry about order), but time your Fusions for aoe fights because you are smart about pull order in a zone and what mobs come up next. Time your manaburn's for certain fights that you know you have a few seconds of running time til the next pull to regen some power. Time certain spells for the beginning of a fight and others for the end. </blockquote><p> First off, you can never just mash buttons.  Ever.  Even the furies, bruisers, and brigands will beat you, if you do.  Maybe you can get away with that junk as some other classes, but never as a sorc.</p><p>As far as Manaburn, it's very gear-dependent.  If you have good power proc gear, you can use it every time it's up (at the tail end of the fight).  Otherwise, you have you figure out when there's gonna be a short break before the next fight.</p><p>As far as fusion...it's all about raid setup with regards to aggro control.  I often find myself using it on a single target as soon as it pops, because a sudden 18k dmg on 3 mobs, just doesn't fly, if all the right classes for aggro control don't happen to be present that day.  Kind of pisses me off, that no matter how long i postpone using it within a fight, it almost ALWAYS draws aggro.</p><p>And yes, this will be a good excercise for you...to see that getting good DPS with a wizard, in a raid setting, is easier said than done.</p>

[SacDaddy420]

many wizards on AB and these forums have asked me and other wizards the same question.   I believe the best answer is this> Practice.   It takes alot of this.   Every fight is different, every raid setup is different.  What one wizard does will not neccessarily be the best for others.  Your gonna suck at first in a raid.   there is no easy button.  many stop there and never progress to the upper teirs of what the class is capable of becoming.  But then again, many take it to the next level.  After a raid, look at your parser.  DL ACT if you havent allready.  It will be your best tool.  Study what you cast, how often it hit, and for how much.   Use this data to assist you on the next raid.  I will help you this much by offering an overview of what I have learned:  Firestorm, Nova, Fusion, BoL.   These are your "Big 4"  Always have them Master, and use them wisely and often ( I nova VERY early in the fight, for instance, in hopes i can get another in).  These 4 should always be AT LEAST 12% of a zonewide each.  Nova and fusion are very often in the 20% range for me.  Irradiate, fiery convo, incap, GW, iceshield, proto, ice lash, icicles, surge...these and most of the rest are your "bread and butter" The best wizzies never stop casting, start to finish.  keep pushing it.  keep trying.  if you put in the work and the dedication you will be rewarded.  Its that simple.   And never be afraid to cast ANY spell.   push your tank.  push your healers to become even better than they are.  I believe my role as a wiz is to drive the DPS into the mob like a stake to a coffin.  Never relent   You may die.  You may die often.  Never stop pushing the limit.

[Wilko1981]

<cite>SacDaddy420 wrote:</cite><blockquote>many wizards on AB and these forums have asked me and other wizards the same question.   I believe the best answer is this> Practice.   It takes alot of this.   Every fight is different, every raid setup is different.  What one wizard does will not neccessarily be the best for others.  Your gonna suck at first in a raid.   there is no easy button.  many stop there and never progress to the upper teirs of what the class is capable of becoming.  But then again, many take it to the next level.  After a raid, look at your parser.  DL ACT if you havent allready.  It will be your best tool.  Study what you cast, how often it hit, and for how much.   Use this data to assist you on the next raid.  I will help you this much by offering an overview of what I have learned:  Firestorm, Nova, Fusion, BoL.   These are your "Big 4"  Always have them Master, and use them wisely and often ( I nova VERY early in the fight, for instance, in hopes i can get another in).  These 4 should always be AT LEAST 12% of a zonewide each.  Nova and fusion are very often in the 20% range for me.  Irradiate, fiery convo, incap, GW, iceshield, proto, ice lash, icicles, surge...these and most of the rest are your "bread and butter" The best wizzies never stop casting, start to finish.  keep pushing it.  keep trying.  if you put in the work and the dedication you will be rewarded.  Its that simple.   And never be afraid to cast ANY spell.   push your tank.  push your healers to become even better than they are.  I believe my role as a wiz is to drive the DPS into the mob like a stake to a coffin.  Never relent   You may die.  You may die often.  Never stop pushing the limit. </blockquote><span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva"> Agree 100%</span>

[Lyasa]

1 correction. "you will die. you will die often." once you figure it out, then you can cut it down to "you might die. you might die often"

[enrond]

Proc gear, spell order, positioning and knowing what spells are worth using is a huge part of the dps.  Raid group set up is the other part! Enrond - t7m

[IllusiveThoughts]

<cite>SacDaddy420 wrote:</cite><blockquote>many wizards on AB and these forums have asked me and other wizards the same question.   I believe the best answer is this> Practice.   It takes alot of this.   Every fight is different, every raid setup is different.  What one wizard does will not neccessarily be the best for others.  Your gonna suck at first in a raid.   there is no easy button.  many stop there and never progress to the upper teirs of what the class is capable of becoming.  But then again, many take it to the next level.  After a raid, look at your parser.  DL ACT if you havent allready.  It will be your best tool.  Study what you cast, how often it hit, and for how much.   Use this data to assist you on the next raid.  I will help you this much by offering an overview of what I have learned:  Firestorm, Nova, Fusion, BoL.   These are your "Big 4"  Always have them Master, and use them wisely and often ( I nova VERY early in the fight, for instance, in hopes i can get another in).  These 4 should always be AT LEAST 12% of a zonewide each.  Nova and fusion are very often in the 20% range for me.  Irradiate, fiery convo, incap, GW, iceshield, proto, ice lash, icicles, surge...these and most of the rest are your "bread and butter" The best wizzies never stop casting, start to finish.  keep pushing it.  keep trying.  if you put in the work and the dedication you will be rewarded.  Its that simple.   And never be afraid to cast ANY spell.   push your tank.  push your healers to become even better than they are.  I believe my role as a wiz is to drive the DPS into the mob like a stake to a coffin.  Never relent   You may die.  You may die often.  Never stop pushing the limit. </blockquote>preach on brother!

[Lakespookie]

<p>Wizard played correctly equals death or its not a raid.... </p><p> Example we were doing the prince in EH and i had not died all raid so i proceded to burn all my power and suicde to use my book and MB</p><p> after that it was officially a raid. </p><p>p.s. it was my only death that run.</p>

[Timbers]

<cite>Lyasa wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 correction. "you will die. you will die often." once you figure it out, then you can cut it down to "you might die. you might die often" </blockquote> <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Could be said better then this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And as other siad.. many raidforces doesnt count it as a raid until they have a dead wizard (even tho I think a dead Assain *cough*karel*cough will make it count as well )

[simpwrx02]

<p>I may be way off base here, but personally I use irradiate almost as soon as it pops up, fast casting around 2 sec base cast time, big up front damage followed by a few ticks, in a raid it averaged around 750 per hit or about 3500 per casting, however firestorm only hits for an average of 2500.  To me irradiate is a better spell to use than firestorm, but maybee that is just me.  Now on an AoE fight there is no question firestorm rocks.</p><p>I guess all I am really saying is that on single target I will pick irradiate over firestorm every time. The numbers above are from my expierence on raids, I didnt use base calcuations that is what ACT shows me.  Also I have irradiate at master 1 and firestorm at adept 3, maybee if firestoem was at master 1 it would be higher, but I dont expect that big of a jump in damage from adept 3 to master 1.</p>