Good vs Evil, the Non Event.

[Lasai]

<p>Someone posted they could never play an "evil" side character, and it got me thinking.</p><p>Really, besides neighborhoods, whats the difference?  We fight the same orcs, goblins, aviaks, whatever.  We do the same things basically for city tasks.  We wear the same armor, use the same weapons, buy freely from whoever, whenever.   </p><p>I went to visit Kelethin and the silly Fae guards saluted me??  I'm EVIL you twits!!</p><p>I can recall 2 missions where I was sent out to kill Qeynosians.. the old Froglock unlock, and some minor thing in Nektulos forest where I had to kill some goodies on Behemoth.  Im just level 60, but, is that it?</p><p>Granted, we have a few professions unique to one side or the other, and thats about it, besides a few unique mounts.</p><p>I guess, If I am going to be labeled "Evil" I want to DO "Evil" stuff.  I would love writs requiring me to kill Qeynos guards, or extort money from widows and orphans, or just bash haflings for being halflings.  Perhaps a collection writ involving Fae Wings?</p><p>I love the game.. but Factional tension and content is pretty non-existant, and I think it would be fun to have more of it.</p><p>Yes, I could roll on a PvP server, but, SWG and WOW burned me out of PvP forever possibly.. I don't care for the PvP mindset. (just my personal observation, I'm 51 and far past enjoying the wtfpwnbbq-ing stuff)</p>

[Tyrion]

<p>I defenitely see where you're coming from, and I empathize. In theory, one of the best changes they could make would be to implement the old SWG overt/covert PVP system, but many problems would hamper and probably stop it outright. There are enough PVP changes in combat to really make it awkward (moving backwards slowly anyone?), and unless the player base embraced the penalties of being PVP in their PVE world, it would never work.</p><p>What would be better I think would be a WoWish type battlegrounds implementation. Not seperate instances, but have points of control on a large map (think G-Fay size), where combined efforts by players could destroy an opposing faction's outpost (all NPCs) and then players of that faction would recieve a decent combat buff while in that territory for maybe a half-hour until the outpost was re-populated.</p><p>Finally, I think revising the old sabotage quests to have less, but more complex and challenging ones with good stories could be an excellent solo avenue, especially if it incorporated a string of instances tied in to exploring certain parts of the world.</p><p>Just my thoughts.</p>

[Solaran_X]

<cite>Tyrion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I defenitely see where you're coming from, and I empathize. In theory, one of the best changes they could make would be to implement the old SWG overt/covert PVP system, but many problems would hamper and probably stop it outright. There are enough PVP changes in combat to really make it awkward (moving backwards slowly anyone?), and unless the player base embraced the penalties of being PVP in their PVE world, it would never work.</p><p><b>What would be better I think would be a WoWish type battlegrounds implementation. Not seperate instances, but have points of control on a large map (think G-Fay size), where combined efforts by players could destroy an opposing faction's outpost (all NPCs) and then players of that faction would recieve a decent combat buff while in that territory for maybe a half-hour until the outpost was re-populated.</b></p><p>Finally, I think revising the old sabotage quests to have less, but more complex and challenging ones with good stories could be an excellent solo avenue, especially if it incorporated a string of instances tied in to exploring certain parts of the world.</p><p>Just my thoughts.</p></blockquote>That was one of the few decent things about WoW. Most of the expansion zones and a few older zones had PvP objectives (Even on the non-PvP servers? I played on PvP - worst PvP ever when you got L70s in T3+ raid gear camping lowbie ~20ish Contested areas [everyone is PvP Flagged] and ganking them and quest givers) in them, that resulted in a buff when one side or the other had control of them. And the expansion PvP "games" also rewarded a type of no-trade currency you could use to purchase some semi-decent blue and purple gear.

[NiteWolfe]

 If there was some way to design a DAOC like pvp area with goals and rewards seperate of the pve side of this game i probly be in hevean.  The only problem i dee really is class balance becomes a nightmare. what works well in pve could be  way OP in pvp. This could lead to nerfs to classes that would effect there pve abilities. Which btw is one of the factors thats killing daoc.  i spent over 4 years in daoc and at one point it was the best game on the marker due to its unique separation of pve and pvp. They also keeped the sides completely separate without communication between the 2.

[Norrsken]

<cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote> If there was some way to design a DAOC like pvp area with goals and rewards seperate of the pve side of this game i probly be in hevean.  The only problem i dee really is class balance becomes a nightmare. what works well in pve could be  way OP in pvp. This could lead to nerfs to classes that would effect there pve abilities. Which btw is one of the factors thats killing daoc.  i spent over 4 years in daoc and at one point it was the best game on the marker due to its unique separation of pve and pvp. They also keeped the sides completely separate without communication between the 2. </blockquote>But in eq2 the pve and pvp aspect of skills are separate most of the time, so they can utterly nerf a skill in pvp and leave it untouched in pve. See the brig debuffs for reference. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Solaran_X]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote> If there was some way to design a DAOC like pvp area with goals and rewards seperate of the pve side of this game i probly be in hevean.  The only problem i dee really is class balance becomes a nightmare. what works well in pve could be  way OP in pvp. This could lead to nerfs to classes that would effect there pve abilities. Which btw is one of the factors thats killing daoc.  i spent over 4 years in daoc and at one point it was the best game on the marker due to its unique separation of pve and pvp. They also keeped the sides completely separate without communication between the 2. </blockquote>But in eq2 the pve and pvp aspect of skills are separate most of the time, so they can utterly nerf a skill in pvp and leave it untouched in pve. See the brig debuffs for reference. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>You mean like during that two week period when Necromancer pets weren't taunting at all in PvE because SOE nerfed their pets taunts in PvP?

[Controlor]

The reason that the person you mentioned refused to play and "evil" toon is this..... ROLE PLAYING. Really it was not about the content of anything if you read what they had posted "i like being the hero". People choose what side they play from a role playing standpoing after all this is a MMORPG. EQ has always kept pvp seperate from pve... (well you could actually go pvp in pve if you did the discord quest but you could only kill other pvpers not pvers and there were at most 10/server so was no point in doing that as it was a pain to get back to non pvp). EDIT: Oooh if you want you CAN still kill the oposing factions guards. It used to be that if a guard saw you you were booted from the city w/ no death or penalty. They removed that. And i find it very enjoyable to walk into FP and annialate the guards grey green blue and white con ^^^. Did this in front of 2 FPians and just can see as they turned from the guard to me and they prob thought [Removed for Content] he is killing our guard. Afterwards i commented how feeble your guards are and moved on to kill the next. (Only ones i cant kill are the epic ones). So if yah wanna be more evil go kill qeynosian guards even if there is no quest for it you can do it

[Norrsken]

Vaeamdar@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote> If there was some way to design a DAOC like pvp area with goals and rewards seperate of the pve side of this game i probly be in hevean.  The only problem i dee really is class balance becomes a nightmare. what works well in pve could be  way OP in pvp. This could lead to nerfs to classes that would effect there pve abilities. Which btw is one of the factors thats killing daoc.  i spent over 4 years in daoc and at one point it was the best game on the marker due to its unique separation of pve and pvp. They also keeped the sides completely separate without communication between the 2. </blockquote>But in eq2 the pve and pvp aspect of skills are separate most of the time, so they can utterly nerf a skill in pvp and leave it untouched in pve. See the brig debuffs for reference. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>You mean like during that two week period when Necromancer pets weren't taunting at all in PvE because SOE nerfed their pets taunts in PvP? </blockquote>Do they still not taunt in PvE, otherwise that is a pretty invalid argument. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lasai]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason that the person you mentioned refused to play and "evil" toon is this..... ROLE PLAYING. Really it was not about the content of anything if you read what they had posted "i like being the hero". People choose what side they play from a role playing standpoing after all this is a MMORPG. EQ has always kept pvp seperate from pve... (well you could actually go pvp in pve if you did the discord quest but you could only kill other pvpers not pvers and there were at most 10/server so was no point in doing that as it was a pain to get back to non pvp). EDIT: Oooh if you want you CAN still kill the oposing factions guards. It used to be that if a guard saw you you were booted from the city w/ no death or penalty. They removed that. And i find it very enjoyable to walk into FP and annialate the guards grey green blue and white con ^^^. Did this in front of 2 FPians and just can see as they turned from the guard to me and they prob thought [I cannot control my vocabulary] he is killing our guard. Afterwards i commented how feeble your guards are and moved on to kill the next. (Only ones i cant kill are the epic ones). So if yah wanna be more evil go kill qeynosian guards even if there is no quest for it you can do it </blockquote><p>First off, I referenced no post, thread, or person.. I stated that a comment "got me thinking".  I started a new thread, on this topic, not a reply to any particular thread at all.</p><p>Ooooh!  ROLEPLAYING!!  in CAPS.. omg I am so chastized.</p><p>I'm not talking about PvP, nor am I talking about ganking grey city guards for no purpose but pretending to have content that doesn't exist.</p><p>Here.. A simple example.  I can go to Zek.  I can do a bunch of quests, and, eventually "Rescue the Green Hoods"</p><p>Pretty heroic stuff, a hero to the "Green Hoods" and all that.. except, anyone can do it, and I don't work for the "Green Hoods".  Its a generic hero mission that means nothing to anyone but the "Green Hoods".  Hooray, I have maxed my "Green Hood" faction.. um.. w/e.</p><p>What is missing is the same sort of content for my alignment.   PvE.  For me, a Freeportian, a chance to invade a Qeynosian fort and cause mischief.. and for Qeynosians, a chance to invade a Freeport facility and "Rescue the Frolicking Wood Elves" or whatever.   </p><p>We have tons of instances where we can be generically heroic.. fighting stuff that is generic to both sides.  Orcs, Vampires, Goblins, Djinn, whatever.  No Good or Evil to any of it.   I think it would be nice to have a few instances that are able to be done from an Evil perspective.. or from Good.. with consequences to our city and factional standing.</p><p>Yes, we have separate paths in Bloodlines and Feerott.. but why.  Kill the same stuff for the same rewards with different dialog.. but no City rewards, no city tension.  </p><p>I would do a ton of Freeport "Evil" quests for no more reward than to eventually see the Floating Citadel.. from the inside.  This is what I am talking about.. a chance to be MORE of an Evil Freeportian, not working my tail off on generic quests for rewards from a faction I care little to nothing about.</p><p>It can be done..just look at the new questlines from LU24 that allow you to work for Freeport and earn city faction points.  Sadly, still going after Orcs and such, but, a start.  I honestly think they could be expanded upon and offered at higher levels, and actually include killing your factional enemy.</p>

[sayitaintso]

In theory the evil versus good factions that the lore produced was a great idea...but because the players whined so much about shared brokers, shared mail and other faction breaking changes, in practice the evil versus good in EQ2 has all but been destroyed. About the only place within game mechanics it still exists is in the shared bank which is rediculous considering that the shared bank idea came from EQ1 where any of your toons can access it. good versus evil only exists in the mind of the roleplayer...and I think he's on vacation this week...<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And wouldn't it be Freeporter not Freeportian?

[liveja]

<cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote> If there was some way to design a DAOC like pvp area with goals and rewards seperate of the pve side of this game i probly be in hevean. </blockquote><p>I would sell my soul to have DAoC/WoW-style pvp zones on Mistmoore, so I could go & PvP when I want to, & turn it off when I want to just play. </p>

[Xev]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote> If there was some way to design a DAOC like pvp area with goals and rewards seperate of the pve side of this game i probly be in hevean. </blockquote><p>I would sell my soul to have DAoC/WoW-style pvp zones on Mistmoore, so I could go & PvP when I want to, & turn it off when I want to just play. </p></blockquote>I would love for them to do this too.  Honestly, I think if they added this, the game would be second to none as far as MMO's go right now.

[Valsehna]

<p>I would love to see the kind of thing you brought up Lasai (and well said, I might add).</p><p>I even took a swipe at the Sabotage line of questing while it still existed but, it just didn't give the feeling.</p>

[DragonMaster2385]

There are still six months until RoK, maybe they will suprise us in a couple of months and announce battle grounds.  Balancing isn't an issue since there is already PvP, so I don't think it would be that much of a problem.