Cons of Rise of Kunark Expansion !!!!!!!! [Archive]

seemoon

05-20-2007, 06:12 AM

Ok!!!! guys here is a deal, Rise of Kunark is coming out., but guess what. there will be new PvP gear, meaning you need to spend more time (gambling) to kill more for tokens for new level 80 pvp gear. As far as spells i have to tell you all that we are screwed. because after spending all that money on masters for 50-70, most of em will be offered as an upgrade for 70-80. meaning that you got some spells for 50-60 that were not offered again for 60-70, , In my case, i got all amsters, now i have to spend more plats to get the same spells for 70-80 again? after 4 month again? while the game was based on max level of 70. eq1, vanguard, wow, I think sony is screwing us up and we need to complain . level 80 guilds and AAs are good, but adventure level should stay 70. give me your openions plz, I wanna see what you think about it.

MaNiaGG84

05-20-2007, 06:25 AM

Well, i guess you bought your acc at ebay and are too lazy to level up another ten levels?Increase the max level, bring new spells and content to the game - SOE HOW DARE YOU?!?Seriously...whats wrong with you, lol

CresentBlade

05-20-2007, 06:32 AM

SoE stated that the they where looking to take characters up to level 200 or something like that. If going to 80 is bothering you this much then grab a drink cause your gonna go completely bonkers.<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Eybietie

05-20-2007, 08:44 AM

using three or more "!" is a sign of insanity.

Greeen-_-Ranger

05-20-2007, 08:47 AM

As long as they allow people with PVP armor to 'exchange' it for credit towards the new pvp set I'd be cool with it. None of my toons have PVP armor, but I think it would be unfair to jack the people who do.

Norrsken

05-20-2007, 10:05 AM

Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>using three or more "!" is a sign of insanity.</blockquote>Actually, three ! at the end of a sentance is proper english, in case you really, really wanna put an emphasis on that sentance.

Arsmaxx

05-20-2007, 11:13 AM

to the OP....no [Removed for Content] shirlock, i think more of us gathered that already

Uilamin

05-20-2007, 11:33 AM

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>using three or more "!" is a sign of insanity.</blockquote>Actually, three ! at the end of a sentance is proper english, in case you really, really wanna put an emphasis on that sentance. </blockquote>He was quoting Terry Pratchett... As for the level upgrade - it gives people something to do

Greenion

05-20-2007, 11:47 AM

<cite>seemoon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok!!!! guys here is a deal, Rise of Kunark is coming out., but guess what. there will be new PvP gear, meaning you need to spend more time (gambling) to kill more for tokens for new level 80 pvp gear. As far as spells i have to tell you all that we are screwed. because after spending all that money on masters for 50-70, most of em will be offered as an upgrade for 70-80. meaning that you got some spells for 50-60 that were not offered again for 60-70, , In my case, i got all amsters, now i have to spend more plats to get the same spells for 70-80 again? after 4 month again? while the game was based on max level of 70. eq1, vanguard, wow, I think sony is screwing us up and we need to complain . level 80 guilds and AAs are good, but adventure level should stay 70. give me your openions plz, I wanna see what you think about it.</blockquote> personally ive seen other posting along these lines elsewhere on the internet...its so frigging audacious ive personally come to believe it most likely a counter public relations campaign via net spam by competiting interests.ya, i can see how we should complain about the game we play continueing to unfold and go forward...for our characters to have futures instead of running around in a stagnant circle. games like this, as you say, are so much better when there is nothing at all left to strive for...sheesh.edit> go back to wow poon. (they wont be expanding that game for a long time)edit> btw vg seems to have had quite a bit of change just in the last couple days...im betting they continue to add to it...there is a such a vast potentiality there, its amazing.soe is doing a fine job with their games. all of them.and......actually last year when i breakfasted with Dymus... (edit> @ fanfaire) ... he told me that eqii could possibly go up to 400 levels...edit> i almost forgot, welcome to the official eqii pvp forum.

CresentBlade

05-20-2007, 01:52 PM

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>using three or more "!" is a sign of insanity.</blockquote>Actually, three ! at the end of a sentance is proper english, in case you really, really wanna put an emphasis on that sentance. </blockquote>I never knew that!!!<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

CresentBlade

05-20-2007, 01:53 PM

<cite>Greenion wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seemoon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok!!!! guys here is a deal, Rise of Kunark is coming out., but guess what. there will be new PvP gear, meaning you need to spend more time (gambling) to kill more for tokens for new level 80 pvp gear. As far as spells i have to tell you all that we are screwed. because after spending all that money on masters for 50-70, most of em will be offered as an upgrade for 70-80. meaning that you got some spells for 50-60 that were not offered again for 60-70, , In my case, i got all amsters, now i have to spend more plats to get the same spells for 70-80 again? after 4 month again? while the game was based on max level of 70. eq1, vanguard, wow, I think sony is screwing us up and we need to complain . level 80 guilds and AAs are good, but adventure level should stay 70. give me your openions plz, I wanna see what you think about it.</blockquote> personally ive seen other posting along these lines elsewhere on the internet...its so frigging audacious ive personally come to believe it most likely a counter public relations campaign via net spam by competiting interests.ya, i can see how we should complain about the game we play continueing to unfold and go forward...for our characters to have futures instead of running around in a stagnant circle. games like this, as you say, are so much better when there is nothing at all left to strive for...sheesh.edit> go back to wow poon. (they wont be expanding that game for a long time)edit> btw vg seems to have had quite a bit of change just in the last couple days...im betting they continue to add to it...there is a such a vast potentiality there, its amazing.soe is doing a fine job with their games. all of them.and......actually last year when i breakfasted with Dymus...he told me that eqii could possibly go up to 400 levels...edit> i almost forgot, welcome to the official eqii pvp forum.</blockquote>That most of been fun. Who payed you or Dymus?<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

The_Real_Ohno

05-20-2007, 01:57 PM

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>SoE stated that the they where looking to take characters up to level 200 or something like that. If going to 80 is bothering you this much then grab a drink cause your gonna go completely bonkers.<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Wasent characters up to lvl 200, what the dev said was, 100 Adv 100 Tradeskill. That being 200 lvls. 80 is gettin quite close.

CresentBlade

05-20-2007, 02:02 PM

Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>SoE stated that the they where looking to take characters up to level 200 or something like that. If going to 80 is bothering you this much then grab a drink cause your gonna go completely bonkers.<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Wasent characters up to lvl 200, what the dev said was, 100 Adv 100 Tradeskill. That being 200 lvls. 80 is gettin quite close.</blockquote>AH! Well that will give plenty of time to balance everything out, hopefully. I wonder what the new level locking spots will be with the level raise, or if it will even affect it. Got to hurry up and level bet T7-T8 pvp is going to be jumping.

Norrsken

05-20-2007, 02:21 PM

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>using three or more "!" is a sign of insanity.</blockquote>Actually, three ! at the end of a sentance is proper english, in case you really, really wanna put an emphasis on that sentance. </blockquote>I never knew that!!!<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>¡¡¡

XeroXs84

05-21-2007, 04:37 AM

Borias

05-21-2007, 06:04 AM

I wouldn't worry about endgame content. This is after all the same company that added new end game content to EQ1 for how long now?I can't wait to see the new breed of token lockers- those sitting at 69. I think I remember that about 100/100, but I'm sure they can expand it out if they find they have the need to. It can even be called 200_2K. I wonder if they will change KoS zones to be 10 levels like they did with SS. It makes me wonder how low we will be able to take Nagafen down to when only down 20 levels. Or if he will still be able to parry all my attacks. :/

Norrsken

05-21-2007, 09:55 AM

Fizzie@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>seemoon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok!!!! guys here is a deal, Rise of Kunark is coming out., but guess what. there will be new PvP gear, meaning you need to spend more time (gambling) to kill more for tokens for new level 80 pvp gear. As far as spells i have to tell you all that we are screwed. because after spending all that money on masters for 50-70, most of em will be offered as an upgrade for 70-80. meaning that you got some spells for 50-60 that were not offered again for 60-70, , In my case, i got all amsters, now i have to spend more plats to get the same spells for 70-80 again? after 4 month again? while the game was based on max level of 70. eq1, vanguard, wow, I think sony is screwing us up and we need to complain . level 80 guilds and AAs are good, but adventure level should stay 70. give me your openions plz, I wanna see what you think about it.</blockquote>Omg thats one silly post The game never was made for level 70, it came out at 50, then got increased to 60 and then to 70.. only cos there was one expansion without a level increase it doesnt mean it will never happen again. I personall always liked leveling up, and i think its pretty important they add new content otherwise people run away... so i am all up for that addon... theres alot of time till that exp comes out so u can start collecting plat for masters.. or RL money if u buy it at ebay lol The only question for me is.. will they be able to add enough content for endgame again? atm with the 2 expansions we have alot of endgame content which is nice... i have a feeling it gonna be much less with kunark then tho <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>If they hold true to the next exp being larger than EoF, it being pure t8, its gonna be a [Removed for Content] lot of content. Probably more t8 content than there currently is t7.

Cantilena

05-21-2007, 04:50 PM

So...An MMORPG is going to release an expansion that will raise the level cap and require players to earn more levels and upgrade their gear?!?!I'm shocked! This is definitely a brand new precedent in the genre! We should all be outraged that they are providing new content and stuff for us to do!

Ameniel

05-21-2007, 05:33 PM

Feroce@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>So...An MMORPG is going to release an expansion that will raise the level cap and require players to earn more levels and upgrade their gear?!?!I'm shocked! This is definitely a brand new precedent in the genre! We should all be outraged that they are providing new content and stuff for us to do!</blockquote> Well you're only seeing the pve side of the picture...people that go 'hey new content yaay' etc...but what about pvp? Look at what EoF did to it, killed pvp especially in the lower populated servers, with Kunark they'll basically have to merge all servers to Naggy probly unless everybody on the other servers would prefer to just quest & so on in a basically blue server.

Shinnar

05-21-2007, 05:51 PM

There will be one very important change with that new expansion.....Sinking Sand dock area will not be camped by lev 70´s anymore.............It will be camped by lev 80´s <img src="/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

lllo0o0ol

05-21-2007, 06:08 PM

Your mom drinks out of toilets on youtube.

Cantilena

05-21-2007, 07:23 PM

<cite>Ameniel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Feroce@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>So...An MMORPG is going to release an expansion that will raise the level cap and require players to earn more levels and upgrade their gear?!?!I'm shocked! This is definitely a brand new precedent in the genre! We should all be outraged that they are providing new content and stuff for us to do!</blockquote> Well you're only seeing the pve side of the picture...people that go 'hey new content yaay' etc...but what about pvp? Look at what EoF did to it, killed pvp especially in the lower populated servers, with Kunark they'll basically have to merge all servers to Naggy probly unless everybody on the other servers would prefer to just quest & so on in a basically blue server. </blockquote>Character development is still character development. MORE so on a PvP server. PvE you will probably do just fine to simply grind to 80. It's the PvP server where your gear and spell upgrades actually MATTER. (A trained monkey could play this game PvE -- it's pathetic.)The point is that levelling and equipping your toon is a lot of what the game is about -- ESPECIALLY on a PvP server.EoF did indeed ruin this game for PvP. But NOT because of added content, new AAs etc. There's ONE thing that went in with EoF that ruined it, and one thing only...ZONING IMMUNITY

Saintedone

05-22-2007, 12:56 AM

I see the BIGGEST issue on pvp server being the complete lack of resist to Combat Arts...Right now at T7 we already have to role the dice when casting spells and while we do a lot of damage when we hit were (casters) deffinately at a didsadvantage in pvp without a group.RoK will undoubtedly come out with great new spells and combat arts - the CA's will be on short timers were our spells will be on even longer timers than they are now...WE NEED TO HAVE CA RESIST GEAR and in porportion to the resist gear we already see for are damage spell resist, we dont need anymore cracked up stupid nerfs for ballace we need gear ballance...WE ALSO NEED TO HAVE AA's inline for pvp and not pve...this will bring ballance as well as fair play IMOIf this IS NOT implimented asap you will kill every class except the CA based fighters/scouts and a couple healer classes.

Borias

05-22-2007, 01:46 AM

<cite>Ameniel wrote:</cite><blockquote> Well you're only seeing the pve side of the picture...people that go 'hey new content yaay' etc...but what about pvp? Look at what EoF did to it, killed pvp especially in the lower populated servers, with Kunark they'll basically have to merge all servers to Naggy probly unless everybody on the other servers would prefer to just quest & so on in a basically blue server. </blockquote> I will have to disagree with you on this one. Speaking only from a T7 perspective here(it may be different in lower tiers, I won't even try to speak for those) 90% of the pvp is still in SS, and up in KoS. Sometimes you get a fight in Kaladim or in Loping Plains, and once in awhile in MMC or CMM, but rarely. I fully predict that unless there is another easy to get to location for both cities or with easy to get away from locations, it will stay there. Although this won't happen while people are leveling, rather when most of the people that are leveling hit 80 and search for pvp. Although there could be a new spot for bots, and people would flock there too.*Edit* there is a resist system for CA's. It's called not getting hit. Throw away the int gear and get stuff with +defense on it. There are AA specs for it too. Do CA's hit too often? Yes I will give you that, however if they are nerfed down to like 50% or so, it will become a casters world. It's easy enough to channel through an interrupt or stun now, but if they all miss a lot, then nothing can stop you from just nuking people in the face and not caring except for big timers.

Saintedone

05-22-2007, 02:28 AM

LOl, throw away our pvp gear... I guess from yr perspective scouts are the only classes that matter. this thread if Im not mistaken is about RoK. As we go into T8 how do figure yr gonna balance without CA resist gear???CA's still hit at 70-90% of the time when you guys are in offensive stance and scouts for the most part get the jump on every class in the game.. Regular auto attack based on MIttigation Vrs Clothe, comon - its the hole reason its so messed up right now.Casters get no real defence as is - whats gonna happen when you guys do more damge faster in T8 while our nukes are on even longer timers, not to mention the new resist gear to resist our new spells.My Master spells right now only hit 30-40% of the time while yr CA's are hitting 70-90% of the time ADP 3, Im not whining to nerf you guys Im saying give us the same chance to resist you all have to resist our spell casting. Your example to get all +defence gear means nothing with the new MIT system ( we wear clothe ) and anyone can tell you that - just look at your recent pvp fights vrs any caster class.Everytime they've nerft casters weve always been able to find a way to fight (change AA's, diferent spell sets, more potions), this time however its simply rediculas on the resist in T7.The only answer to the caster PVP is CA resist gear on PVP servers or to nerf the heck outta all you guys in pvp and NO ONE WANTS MORE NERFS.

Valdar

05-22-2007, 07:15 AM

I can't wait to get those new levels!As for the new expansion, I hope they make the zones easy to get to (no 5 minutes standing at a spire please, and definately no running through BB/GF) and I hope they will be completely different from Kos with all it's cliffdiving / cloud hopping.This means it will probably be the Cliffs of Kunark <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Borias

05-22-2007, 10:08 AM

I think you misunderstand me bud- I should have clarified. When I said get gear with +defense, that adds to your defense skill, which boosts your evasion, not your mit. The mit is + to crush/pierce/slash. I do agree though about CA's needing a tweak. When I was sitting at almost 60% evasion I'd still get hit on the front side with about 75-90% of all attacks, without debuffs on me.On a different note, after having about eleventy thousand bruisers run from my group tonight- make Close Mind put you in combat, or snare you or something. It might as well be an evac with a 3 minute timer since all they do is hit that button, and with their avoidance and sprint, they're gonna make a cloud. More cloud hopping Bruisers than Assassins now these days.

Leorange

05-22-2007, 05:42 PM

rofl!!!Three words for the OP: Ig No RantI also add a picture from SOEs EQII site I copied back in 2004:<img src="http://groenedraeck.com/images/stories/newcontent.jpg" border="0"> New content = new eq accounts = new flesh to slay (with).. Yup, I'm always positive !!!

ailen

05-22-2007, 05:57 PM

<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOl, throw away our pvp gear... I guess from yr perspective scouts are the only classes that matter. this thread if Im not mistaken is about RoK. As we go into T8 how do figure yr gonna balance without CA resist gear???CA's still hit at 70-90% of the time when you guys are in offensive stance and scouts for the most part get the jump on every class in the game.. Regular auto attack based on MIttigation Vrs Clothe, comon - its the hole reason its so messed up right now.Casters get no real defence as is - whats gonna happen when you guys do more damge faster in T8 while our nukes are on even longer timers, not to mention the new resist gear to resist our new spells.My Master spells right now only hit 30-40% of the time while yr CA's are hitting 70-90% of the time ADP 3, Im not whining to nerf you guys Im saying give us the same chance to resist you all have to resist our spell casting. Your example to get all +defence gear means nothing with the new MIT system ( we wear clothe ) and anyone can tell you that - just look at your recent pvp fights vrs any caster class.Everytime they've nerft casters weve always been able to find a way to fight (change AA's, diferent spell sets, more potions), this time however its simply rediculas on the resist in T7.The only answer to the caster PVP is CA resist gear on PVP servers or to nerf the heck outta all you guys in pvp and NO ONE WANTS MORE NERFS.</blockquote>It's the age old argument. What you ask for is something that I think would be fair, yet totally unfair. I got hit by a wizard today .. on my ranger, hit me for 95% of my hitpoints in 1 spell cast. And I know for a fact it wasn't full strength... what you describe is the ability for wizards to one shot someone 80-90% of the time. that's not even close to fair.The flip side to that is to allow spells to land more frequently, but with less potency. This would again, be an issue because then there'd be more time for a scout type to annihilate you with their combat arts. Then theres the issue with flat out resisting spells. You can recast a resisted spell, yet you can't recast one that hit for crap damage. You either have to give up the aiblity to hit on that roll, OR.. give up damage... which do you prefer?This is why the resists system is so jacked up right now. it's very very complicated.... Combat with mages is funky. The only thing I need to say to all of this, is be careful what you wish for, because you can't have super powerful nukes and the ability to hit with the same consistency as combat arts, AND, balance it so you can take hits... What other classes would be on the server then?See the dilemma?

Groma

05-22-2007, 06:24 PM

I'm a mage, and i would MUCH rather do less damage in pvp, and never have my spells resisted, than have it the way it is now. The absolute WORST way to design a pvp system is one where the outcome vs. a certain class is based 100% on the luck of resists. As it stands now, if my spells weren't resisted and the fight started from range, there is not a class in game that could kill me without a 1shot ability. As it stands now, more than 50% of my spells are resisted every single fight, be it bots with garbage gear or raid fabled players wearing equipment specifically for the fight. I don't want to be the guy running around killing everyone at will, but what i do want is balance. If my spells did less damage but were never resisted, at least i could learn how to kill people with it that way. As it stands now, you cannot learn how to handle a fight when the combat log goes: "resist, resist, resist, resist, nuke, resist, nuke, nuke, you have died from pain and suffering."

Groma

05-22-2007, 06:28 PM

Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote> The only thing I need to say to all of this, is be careful what you wish for, because you can't have super powerful nukes and the ability to hit with the same consistency as combat arts, AND, balance it so you can take hits... What other classes would be on the server then?See the dilemma? </blockquote>One question though, why couldn't mages have super powerful nukes and the ability to hit with the same consistency as CAs? CAs hit pretty darn hard and are WAY more consistent than spells, why would mages have to give up what little punch we have for more consistency? I thought the down side of being a mage was supposed to be the cloth armor........

ailen

05-22-2007, 06:53 PM

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>The only thing I need to say to all of this, is be careful what you wish for, because you can't have super powerful nukes and the ability to hit with the same consistency as combat arts, AND, balance it so you can take hits... What other classes would be on the server then?See the dilemma? </blockquote>One question though, why couldn't mages have super powerful nukes and the ability to hit with the same consistency as CAs? CAs hit pretty darn hard and are WAY more consistent than spells, why would mages have to give up what little punch we have for more consistency? I thought the down side of being a mage was supposed to be the cloth armor........ </blockquote>How on earth would that promote good PvP in any way to give a class the ability to one shot nearly every class in the game 90% of the time? Sure it'd be fun for a mage, but for everyone else... NOT.I feel ya. May main is a berserker, and my brigand has nearly the same mit and avoidance in percentages. SAD isn't it?

Groma

05-22-2007, 09:39 PM

Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>The only thing I need to say to all of this, is be careful what you wish for, because you can't have super powerful nukes and the ability to hit with the same consistency as combat arts, AND, balance it so you can take hits... What other classes would be on the server then?See the dilemma? </blockquote>One question though, why couldn't mages have super powerful nukes and the ability to hit with the same consistency as CAs? CAs hit pretty darn hard and are WAY more consistent than spells, why would mages have to give up what little punch we have for more consistency? I thought the down side of being a mage was supposed to be the cloth armor........ </blockquote>How on earth would that promote good PvP in any way to give a class the ability to one shot nearly every class in the game 90% of the time? Sure it'd be fun for a mage, but for everyone else... NOT.I feel ya. May main is a berserker, and my brigand has nearly the same mit and avoidance in percentages. SAD isn't it?</blockquote>How would that be giving a class the ability to 1shot nearly anyone? Fusion? If you are dumb enough to stand around for 5 seconds within 7 meters and let a wizard cast it on you, its high time you died. Ice Nova? Would be a hard push, but i agree it would need to be adjusted for pvp if it did lead to 1shots of moderately geared players. I'm a warlock, i have no 1shot abilities. At best, i can 2shot a very poorly geared green con.

Saintedone

05-23-2007, 02:29 AM

I can 1 shot with my master fusion but it gets resisted 40-70% of the time its a 5 sec cast (you can see it coming and get out of the range easy) and I only use it on cloud platforms, rolling the dice!! Average damage on T7 however is between 4-6k AT MOST, more like 4k average. Ice nova is a wizzy staple nuke and it's a 3 sec cast very interuptable and gets resisted 40-70% of the time, hits for arond 2k average. Most fights in T7 dont last 10 sec's so that gives me a couple dots and a nuke at distance all being resisted with the Mit system at 40-70%. Up close its a bloodbath and Im usually taking a dirt nap in under 5 secs, manna shield only serves as a prolonged death (dont get me wrong its a life saver but 23 AA points to get and you can get interupted trying to cast it).I hope that gives you a better understanding of what were up against vrs Combat Arts.Im also ONLY TAKING ABOUT T6+ were the CA's really take off and the casting timers get long. In a PVP server the new zones, content, zones, only serve to empower the CA classes in pvp. There resist keep getting stronger and they hit with bonuses to there CA's through AA's making it even harder for us. As we go into T8 the way things are, the balance issue will only become worse and casting classes will be doomed to raid and instance only game play. The game is developed with for PVE but the devs really need to think about PVP as well. EVERY CASTER IN T7 PVP WILL TRADE DAMAGE FOR RESIST TO CA's and AA lines for CA resist.