Change the fame system [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Necodem

05-18-2007, 10:34 AM

Currently for exemple when you killing Champion when you're a Slayer, you're aint getting any fame. And this sounds like to be really stupid. Why would a lower rank get no fame from an higher one?So it'd be great if this fame system change, and able us to get fame by killing higher ranked's player.

Wytie

05-18-2007, 10:51 AM

IMO that would just lessen pvp even more....... As it is now that titles will atleast stay and fight maybe since they think theres not fame on the line, but if it changes your way they will definatly run cause thers nothing to gain for winning and loss of fame for loosing. Very bad idea IMO do not give titles anymore of a reason to not fight! Just be glad you ownd him and move on cause if fame had been on the line that fight prob would not have happend ~fact~

CresentBlade

05-18-2007, 11:11 AM

They should just remove titles or give the ability to hide. I have been to Slayer and back as a mostly solo Coercer and would rather not have a title at all, I do not need to give people more reason to come after me in full groups just to farm me for a sad little title. All titles do is:Make people run from fights unless they out number 4 to 1 or out level you alot.Make people bail on their groups just to save their title.Make people zone hop alot (have seen some zone hop even without a title /cough Props /cough).Encourage guard hugging.People with titles will run from anything even and sometimes blue out of fear of title loss.Titles are not helping this game at all. With titles removed there would be more pvp, and I hear titles encourage pvp (they dont) and if you are on a pvp server you shouldnt need to be encouraged to play pvp.Gaining a title on a Scout is like breathing air, everyone can do it....

Bauer

05-18-2007, 11:25 AM

As much as I agree that the Rank system promotes self preservation, and most of points are valid Ogreman, I think that the titles that come with pvp are what drive many to hunt, and even PVP at all. I think it would be getting rid of a central tradition to EQ2 PVP, and it would not be the same game anymore. The fact is, that titles shouldn't overly encourage grouping, as you get greater fame/infamy/notoriety gain while hunting solo (it just carries more risk of being outnumbered). The ones who group 24/7 tend not to actually have very high ranks, and the ones that do have good, established, regular groups that are well played; and in the end, why shouldn't they be winning?

kaboom7

05-18-2007, 11:29 AM

Actually it's the other way around of what wytie mentioned. Having titles does infact lessen pvp . I have been pvping for a long long longgg time with several different classes and so far what i've seen ppl with higher titles , mostly General and above, will try to stand and fight less often in a 1v1 unless they have a clear cut advantage over the opponent, it could be a class advantage , level or number of people. Infact i've seen a lot more people with lower titles trying to start or pick a fight with another class of opposing faction with a better title. They do need to strip off titles so people can fight without having to worry that they're gonna lose fame .

Bozidar

05-18-2007, 11:45 AM

Ok, can we have this debate, for real? Let's finish this, once and for all..Fame DOES NOT LESSEN PVP. People, in general, DO NOT LIKE DYING AND MAKING THEIR OPPONENTS STRONGER IN THE PROCESS! It's human nature, 101. You want to win, regardless of what's at stake.Find me someone with a high rank and a very low pvp kills number. I'm not talking about destroyers... champion or better, and they've only got, 200 kills.I'm not saying you can't get champ in 200 kills, it's actually quite easy.. what i'm saying is people don't get a title and then go hide in the city forever. people with titles, in general, have much higher kill rates than other players.How, i pray tell, do you think that those players are reducing pvp by getting those titles? How is it that these players that have what you say lessens pvp, and yet they have so very many kills?<a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=602250121" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=602250121</a>I have dreadnaught on that toon, he's close to general. He's retired now as he's on a blue server, but do you think i was hiding in instances and city zones protecting my title? Titles don't reduce pvp, people not wanting to die makes them run away from an obvious loss. This is human nature. I've seen people with "hunter" fame run from groups that would never take that fame, HACK to get away from us... it's not fame.. and it wasn't the 10 silver he dropped off his misty either.So pretty please, with sugar on top, explain to me how fame reduces pvp while the players who have it generally pvp the most.

kaboom7

05-18-2007, 12:16 PM

You're way too less informed to make those comments.Firstly there're a handful of people who do have titles such overseers and masters with a very few kills . There are reasons how they got that and some have been banned for it. Some desperate enough will buy a toon off an exchange market with a title and farm it for fame. I've personally known some guys who later ended up doing that and getting into trouble later on if not right away. That does not include all other people who've worked hard and pvped their [Removed for Content] off to defend their titles with l33tness; but there are some douchebags who do that eventually. Another easy way to get fame easy is when people go out to pvp in groups and raids and some leecher will just sit in immunity while his buddies are killing ppl around and he's pretty much just leeching fame sitting duck. As for why people with higher titles have high number of kills ... well fame is divided first of kinda like status points after killing ur opponent. More people you have in a pvp group .... the less fame you'll get from a kill. If you 1v1 a guy with a title u can leech u'll pretty much get a full point of fame which is about equal to the fame you loose to someone else who'd kill u in a duel. That's another reason why more people complain about gaining titles slower than losing it. People in groups or out of grp toon killing ur opponent with u will also get part of the fame. As for hiding in cities and never coming out to defend titles... i'm sure without a doubt there are tons of people like that . Tons and they're usually those people with Masters or Overseers who really feel like they dont have any other reason to pvp now that they have the Uber end title. I can name a handful of people on my server who u can lookup on eq2players check their pvp history and it's not as many kills as what others with overseers will have maybe a fraction of it. Those guys will come out in raids or groups leech fame and not show up for another week or two... some go upto the extent of a month. I've made frp toons asking those guys for a duel and they clearly flat out said no inspite of knowing they have a class advantage over me. You can't generalise ppl on how youuuu pvp. Fine you might be an honorouble pvp guy who's always on the move doesn't hide & is able to make good use of the character's skills but that doesn't stop others from making decisions and using exploits of any sort just to get titles and forget about pvping and the real purpose of having a pvp server. I've seen conjurers troubadors dirges and classes as such that're not too good as a pvp class with dreadnaughts and general and i've usually seen them with group settings. Again such classes with good titles might be good even at dueling but you can't deny the fact that there's also a good number of them who will gain pvp titles with outside help. Titles have pretty much messed up pvp in this game. I believe everyone would be happy and willing to engage if they were not present at all. It only gives a fake sense of superiority which u can gain by pretty much grouping with good classes.

Bozidar

05-18-2007, 12:24 PM

I don't generalize on how I pvp, i generalize on what i see. And i see titled players out there on the battlefield all the time. If i didn't, and i was stuck at the fame levels i was at, i'd be bored. I can kill untitled noobs all day, i get no satisfaction from it, and from talking to a broad spectrum of players on both sides of the fence -- that's generally the rule.People want good pvp fights, they want to go at it vs tough opponents and win and take their fame. They want to make that next level of fame.Do SOME people sit around in immunity or exploit to get fame on vox because it's a blue server now and no one pvps there? Sure, yes, obviously. But they're not the general rule out there in pvp. The vast majority (and by that i mean 99.9%) of players with titles are out there looking to get more.Maybe you'll find in the very small sample size of overseers that players have reached what they consider to be "end Game" as far as pvp goes. I might feel that way if i ever make overseer. come on, if you make that title, and then retire a toon, more power to ya. But those guys aren't quitting the game because they don't pvp a guy who they feel "finished" the pvp game... Titles are a motivation, granted one that many whiners think hurts the game, but they ARE a motivation and they're a lot of fun. They CREATE pvp, and they make it interesting.If everything were just K v D like on the blue servers with how many mobs you killed... come on? who cares how many bots you farmed in pvp? But if your'e out there getting and risking titles like the vast majority of good players, then you're going to get your good share of kills in, you're going to be out there creating pvp and making the game better for it.

Wytie

05-18-2007, 12:25 PM

<cite>kaboom786 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually it's the other way around of what wytie mentioned. how so?Having titles does infact lessen pvp. Yes and no I have been pvping for a long long longgg time with several different classes and so far what i've seen ppl with higher titles , mostly General and above, will try to stand and fight less often in a 1v1 unless they have a clear cut advantage over the opponent true if fame is involved if not they think they are better and will mostly likely fight you and not have much toy worry if you do get lucky and win, it could be a class advantage , level or number of people. Infact i've seen a lot more people with lower titles trying to start or pick a fight with another class of opposing faction with a better title. They do need to strip off titles so people can fight without having to worry that they're gonna lose fame. Titles dont promote ganking anymore than faction, people are always gona go for whats easier 9 times outa 10 its natural</blockquote>Everyone has opinion on this matter but if you see what the OP is says and stay on topic, he is suggesting a slayer gain something for killing a champ but the champ receive no fame for killing the slayer. Do you think that champ will fight that slayer if that was the case NO, why? cause he doesn't have anything to gain only something to loose. People with titles run still when they do have something to gain dont ya think they will defiantly run when they can loose fame and not gain it in that situation, hell yea of course and IMO thats not something EQ2 pvp needs atm.Your opinion about titles is general is irrelevant to the topic and there has been too many threads on that issue already I think SOE will never take them away why [Removed for Content] a player base that have worked to get something only to completely take it away you and other may want that but thats logically a bit unrealistic, if you dont like title simply dont precipitate in the fame process if you stay unranked im sure without a doubt not nearly as many will run from you.

Bozidar

05-18-2007, 12:32 PM

kaboom786 wrote: <blockquote>I've seen conjurers troubadors dirges and classes as such that're not too good as a pvp class with dreadnaughts and general and i've usually seen them with group settings. Again such classes with good titles might be good even at dueling but you can't deny the fact that there's also a good number of them who will gain pvp titles with outside help. </blockquote>Let me address this subject seperately. It's obvious to me that you think titles should mean 1v1 pvp. To that, i say you are..... {ok, i'm going to censor myself and be as nice as i possibly can}You don't understand, at the fundamental level, the nature of EQ2. This isn't, at it's core, a soloist game.This IS a group game. Classes like troubadors, inquistor, defiler.. these are INCREDIBLY powerful group toons. Dirge, guardian.. the list goes on. These classes are DESIGNED to be grouped. That's not to say they can't solo, and do well, it's that they're meant to be IN a group. GAH! I get wood when i think about what a coercer can do in pvp when he has a good group around him, it's like watching someone kick a pupy they're so powerful. So if someone makes dreadnaught on a troubador (i pvp'd with 2 of em), or an inquisitor (pvp'd with 1)... then AWESOME! They figured out it's a group game, got a good group together and made awesome group toons to support it, and kicked a whole lot of titled arses in order to make dreadnaught or general.Again.. this is CREATING pvp. Why do you see "outside help" (grouping) as BAD?This isn't Everquest 2 Players Duel. This is a group based game..

kaboom7

05-18-2007, 12:48 PM

First of all i never mentioned 'outside help' as bad ... try not to twist things around plz. We all know pvp is supposed to be group based in everquest and it's hard for more than half of the classes to duel or solo around zones looking for tokens and pvp. Yes i was stressing more on higher titles but that can also be applied to people with low titles, be it hunter slayer or destroyer champion whatever .... you will find people using tactics and whatever way they can to get to the point of a higher title faster and eventually. As for me not liking the fame thing.... at least try to ask more... i've got a lvl 70 monk in full pvp gear with a Master title. And i know a lotta classes who do give an excuse from a duel. I could very well say and act happy having that title but in all honesty i just dont appreciate how SOE uses the fame based system in order to push pvp. There're several other ways they can but i guess they're only trying to be original here which isn't helping much. And wytie he's giving an 'example' of slayer and champion ... he's not trying to stress on ONLY those two particular titles. My comments were based on how title leeching works in general.

Bozidar

05-18-2007, 12:55 PM

I'm sorry if your comments were misleading, but are you trying to say that guys with group classes with high titles are generally leechers?Yes.. there are title leechers.. *gasp*.Is it in any way a popular thing? Is it rampant? Do you think that's how most people fight, and it's reducing pvp?

Wytie

05-18-2007, 01:00 PM

<cite>kaboom786 wrote:</cite><blockquote>And wytie he's giving an 'example' of slayer and champion ... he's not trying to stress on ONLY those two particular titles. My comments were based on how title leeching works in general. </blockquote>I understand that but he was also refering to a lower title gaining something from killinga higher title, but the higher title not getting a thing for winning. Not promoting that fight at all, the satifaction of just winning isnt enough.You should know how folks run i bet you get ran from constantly seeing you be a monk and a nice title, most prob wont fight you unless they definatly have an advantage titles arent everything but either gained in a cheesy style or fashion or not its a definate stament of some serious ars kicking along the way.

kaboom7

05-18-2007, 01:15 PM

there you (bozidar) go assuming that most people do that lol... anywayyyy .... those were just examples of how it's affecting pvp in a bad way that stops others from pvping too . I've seen nukers use the locket from hidden cache , forgot the name, to drop themselves below 50% in immunity and then fusion or rift whataver to avoid fame loss incase they die. I've seen the transition ... others learning from others and people just getting [Removed for Content] becoz of the number exploits people use just to avoid a fame loss. There's also a drag exploit by buisers on the palace of awakened suspended platform right outside of it . Seen them shoot themselves up in air 100 feet above with drag and throw person down and parachute safely to ground ... why? just for fame and those guys have only picked ppl with titles they can leech. well those are just a few examples of things ppl can do that makes them desperate to get fame and not really give others the real fun of it . i'm not gonna debate more on it ..i pretty much laid out my point of view ... others who did too was a good thing i appreciate it no hate plz =) . I hope soe reads this and caters to it ... there won't be any changes we all know but at least they should know they could've done better.

Bozidar

05-18-2007, 01:35 PM

your point is that people do what you consider exploitive and cheap things to get fame. Right?Is it affecting pvp as a whole?

kreepr

05-18-2007, 05:01 PM

No don't change it, it's fine the way it is. The only change I see needed is to let us know either what the %'s are win or lose or give us a bar to Gage it.LOL It does not prevent PVP in most cases, yes there are some but I know from experience and threw seeing it most don't run because of fame. They run to survive. I know I do I don't run because of my title, I run cause I know I will die lol and if any of you think I am going to stick around to get killed all I can do is laugh at you. Not letting you see my corpse laying on the ground is winning in this game, loser is usually a corpse last time I checked. So I play to win. What about you? If you wanna play to lose that's fine you pay for your subscription it's your choice to play how you want to. People have the right to play how they want as long as there not exploiting or hacking. Get over it people on the average DONT WANT TO DIE.By the way Boz lol I dont wanna hear about the whole blue server thing LOL

Bozidar

05-18-2007, 05:11 PM

<cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote>By the way Boz lol I dont wanna hear about the whole blue server thing LOL</blockquote> Whatever do you mean? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Tatate

05-18-2007, 07:32 PM

How about titles just get REMOVED! People won't have a reason to run then except for a death and maybe a couple silver (or platinum) depending on whether they remember to bank or not...

Xova

05-18-2007, 08:24 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, can we have this debate, for real? Let's finish this, once and for all..Fame DOES NOT LESSEN PVP. People, in general, DO NOT LIKE DYING AND MAKING THEIR OPPONENTS STRONGER IN THE PROCESS! It's human nature, 101. You want to win, regardless of what's at stake.Find me someone with a high rank and a very low pvp kills number. I'm not talking about destroyers... champion or better, and they've only got, 200 kills.I'm not saying you can't get champ in 200 kills, it's actually quite easy.. what i'm saying is people don't get a title and then go hide in the city forever. people with titles, in general, have much higher kill rates than other players.How, i pray tell, do you think that those players are reducing pvp by getting those titles? How is it that these players that have what you say lessens pvp, and yet they have so very many kills?<a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=602250121" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=602250121</a>I have dreadnaught on that toon, he's close to general. He's retired now as he's on a blue server, but do you think i was hiding in instances and city zones protecting my title? Titles don't reduce pvp, people not wanting to die makes them run away from an obvious loss. This is human nature. I've seen people with "hunter" fame run from groups that would never take that fame, HACK to get away from us... it's not fame.. and it wasn't the 10 silver he dropped off his misty either.So pretty please, with sugar on top, explain to me how fame reduces pvp while the players who have it generally pvp the most.</blockquote>Boz, I have to somewhat disagree with you here. I know, I'm shocked too, but it's ok. I still like ya.It's not so much the titles that hinder PvP as much as it is LOSS. You're right when you say that people don't like dying (and really dear, no need to put it in caps) and that people also don't like to lose. Well fame loss is included in that. Many people may say "I don't care about my title", but I guarantee that most people feel quite differently when they see "your death has decreased your notoriety/infamy" in their chat box. So yes having a title can, and does, have the effect of limiting PvP. It always has.I don't really like dying in PvP. I don't think any of us do. But I have an easier time dying and accepting defeat on my untitled or low-ranked toons, than I do on my titled toons. My wizard twink has been to Slayer and back more times than I can count, and it's never bothered me. My Dirge has bounced between Hunter and Slayer a few times, and even though I get a little peeved when she dies it doesn't prevent me from PvP'ing with her. My Defiler and My Fury? Forget it. I have General on one, and am about a kill or two away from General on the other (earned 100% legit thx.) I hate dying on them, and it's largely due to their titles. Bad enough I take a death but when there is also infamy loss associated with that death, it's 10x more frustrating. So which toon do you think I play on most of late?It's human nature to not want to lose; it's human nature to not readily accept loss or defeat. So PvP deaths are bad enough on their own, but when you add the additional loss of "fame" or "notoriety" it's even more frustrating and in that respect yes it can limit if someone PvP's. I realize it's not that way for some people, like yourself, but that doesn't make you the norm. In this case I'd say you are the exception. Coin and item loss can be controlled by banking. Fame loss can only be controlled by not dying or not PvP'ing. And since it's human nature to take the easier path, what do you think most people will do?Honestly, and the boyfriend and I disagree on this big time, I would prefer that titles either be removed, or be distributed through an honor system like WoW's. Tie it into faction earned, total killcount, KvD ratio, etc.I don't see it happening, but it would be nice. That's be my solution at any rate.(Oh and stop badmouthing Vox and calling it a blue server. Just because you jumped ship for the Naggy gankfest doesn't mean it's a bad server to play on. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)

Bozidar

05-18-2007, 09:53 PM

Alright.. you have a point, as usual <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />People care about infamy, but do you think that it reduces pvp? does your general toon(s) have under 1k kills? I agree with you, it IS different when you lose infamy..i know it bugs me. But it doesn't keep me from fighting tough fights to try to get that infamy back.And sorry.. vox isn't blue, i recant <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> it's just a little purple...

FlickerFlak

05-19-2007, 07:31 PM

I know a bunch of players that run like the wind because of their precious titles. They wont fight at all unless they can win. FACT!They should just change the system so you wont loose your title so quickly, You can be 5 or 6 kills in a title and blame one kill, it's gone. The higher the rank the harder it is to replace. RUN RUN RUN, keep that title girls.....

Fonrian

05-19-2007, 08:36 PM

Give me a master title! It's the only reason I rolled a character named Splinter in the first place!

Alycs

05-19-2007, 08:58 PM

On the topic of the OP's post. Okay...I can see where she/he calls for someone of a lower rank who kills a much higher ranked person getting more fame/infamy off that person. Hunter Beta kills off Destroyer Alpha....and gets little to no fame. You know, if you think about it...that would be akin to .... Lowly farmhand Jeb takes on the great Wyatt Earpp and kills him right fairly in a gunfight. Now...EVERYONE would know Lowly Farmhand Jeb's name now. So...going on the OP's post...someone takes down say Ackron(don't know his rank..sorry...I really don't pay attention to those)...then...others would hear of it and their fame would go up...substantially. In EQ2 PvP...it doesn't. If that person was say untitled or just hunter..what does he get? Next to nothing or zip. Whereas...it SHOULD be a much greater amount. I can see where the OP is coming from. Let's keep the arguments about that please, instead of the title system as a whole. If Hunter Chai takes out Destroyer (Insert name here), I'd like to see her get more infamy than she would now. /shrug THAT would make more sense than it does right now.

Radigazt

05-19-2007, 09:18 PM

I'd like there to be no titles. I find that the higher the title the more wussified the players tend to be. I come from a different background, I'm a "FPS" (First-Person-Shooter) player at heart, so FPS style fast and furious combat is something I really enjoy. Spending an hour at a time just to find a person to fight just suuuuuuuuuuuuuckz. Then to have that person run because you're a Dreadnaught suuuuuuuckz even more. I also played a couple of years of City of Heros/City of Villains. There, whenever you enter a PvP zone, everyone is auto-mentored down to the level of the zone (and mentoring doesn't make you uber in CoH, it makes you ... normal for that level). That means everyone is attackable, nobody is a green con or orange con, you just fight. If that level 70 guy is late to his raid ... he might not ever make it there. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm all for eliminating the titles. But, if that's not an option, then just change it to give titles based off of # of kills, and eliminate the penalties for dying. As it is now, everyone is so scared of dying even once that finding PvP is just too much unneccessary drudgery.

CresentBlade

05-19-2007, 09:44 PM

Just remove titles! I was in Gfay CITY flagged and the only ones that would attack me where 50+ Qeynos players. All the even cons and blues all with titles and many from Cannon Fodder would not attack me. SOLO CARNAGE FLAGGED, they just follow me around. This is reason the titles dont encourage pvp all these people afraid of losing a fight.Makes me really mad cause I heard all these things about how much pvp cannon fodder does etc etc. They only stood watched/camped or ran off. Titles are killing pvp in the game. Only time I see players with titles above slayer is by a zone, in a city, or in a x2 raid. (or hugging a guard)I took the fight to them in their OWN CITY and nada, this is very very sad. I was expecting someone on Q side to pvp guess I was wrong.Come on people grow some, this is a pvp server lets pvp....PLEASE!/rant off<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ZhouYu

05-19-2007, 09:44 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>kaboom786 wrote: <blockquote>I've seen conjurers troubadors dirges and classes as such that're not too good as a pvp class with dreadnaughts and general and i've usually seen them with group settings. Again such classes with good titles might be good even at dueling but you can't deny the fact that there's also a good number of them who will gain pvp titles with outside help. </blockquote>Let me address this subject seperately. It's obvious to me that you think titles should mean 1v1 pvp. To that, i say you are..... {ok, i'm going to censor myself and be as nice as i possibly can}You don't understand, at the fundamental level, the nature of EQ2. This isn't, at it's core, a soloist game.This IS a group game. Classes like troubadors, inquistor, defiler.. these are INCREDIBLY powerful group toons. Dirge, guardian.. the list goes on. These classes are DESIGNED to be grouped. That's not to say they can't solo, and do well, it's that they're meant to be IN a group. GAH! I get wood when i think about what a coercer can do in pvp when he has a good group around him, it's like watching someone kick a pupy they're so powerful. So if someone makes dreadnaught on a troubador (i pvp'd with 2 of em), or an inquisitor (pvp'd with 1)... then AWESOME! They figured out it's a group game, got a good group together and made awesome group toons to support it, and kicked a whole lot of titled arses in order to make dreadnaught or general.Again.. this is CREATING pvp. Why do you see "outside help" (grouping) as BAD?This isn't Everquest 2 Players Duel. This is a group based game.. </blockquote>I totally agree. I'm a SK, with out Pt/Da i lsoe some fights, I win some. However the core of my class abilitiesare leading groups. I love that role, I have been successful with it, and enjoy it a lot. People flame me for always grouping ..well liek oyu said man, it is a group game. Only classes that can solo effectively are preds and rouges. Aside from them the rest all have to group to make up for their weaknesses.

CresentBlade

05-20-2007, 05:51 AM

<cite>ZhouYu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>kaboom786 wrote: <blockquote>I've seen conjurers troubadors dirges and classes as such that're not too good as a pvp class with dreadnaughts and general and i've usually seen them with group settings. Again such classes with good titles might be good even at dueling but you can't deny the fact that there's also a good number of them who will gain pvp titles with outside help. </blockquote>Let me address this subject seperately. It's obvious to me that you think titles should mean 1v1 pvp. To that, i say you are..... {ok, i'm going to censor myself and be as nice as i possibly can}You don't understand, at the fundamental level, the nature of EQ2. This isn't, at it's core, a soloist game.This IS a group game. Classes like troubadors, inquistor, defiler.. these are INCREDIBLY powerful group toons. Dirge, guardian.. the list goes on. These classes are DESIGNED to be grouped. That's not to say they can't solo, and do well, it's that they're meant to be IN a group. GAH! I get wood when i think about what a coercer can do in pvp when he has a good group around him, it's like watching someone kick a pupy they're so powerful. So if someone makes dreadnaught on a troubador (i pvp'd with 2 of em), or an inquisitor (pvp'd with 1)... then AWESOME! They figured out it's a group game, got a good group together and made awesome group toons to support it, and kicked a whole lot of titled arses in order to make dreadnaught or general.Again.. this is CREATING pvp. Why do you see "outside help" (grouping) as BAD?This isn't Everquest 2 Players Duel. This is a group based game.. </blockquote>I totally agree. I'm a SK, with out Pt/Da i lsoe some fights, I win some. However the core of my class abilitiesare leading groups. I love that role, I have been successful with it, and enjoy it a lot. People flame me for always grouping ..well liek oyu said man, it is a group game. Only classes that can solo effectively are preds and rouges. Aside from them the rest all have to group to make up for their weaknesses. </blockquote>I can group and solo well. One on one and two on me I can handle problem is always like four on one. My weakness is other players to afraid to pvp with out overwhelming numbers even if they are yellow or orange.

Bozidar

05-22-2007, 10:02 AM

<cite>FlickerFlak wrote:</cite><blockquote>They wont fight at all unless they can win. FACT!</blockquote> *gasp**pauses for shocked Captain Kirk face*But... surely.... you.... think.....they.....should.....stay.....around....a nd.....die when... it's obvious.... they'll.... LOSE!!!?!? KAAAAHHHHN!N!!!!!!

Bozidar

05-22-2007, 10:04 AM

<cite>Alycs wrote:</cite><blockquote>On the topic of the OP's post. Okay...I can see where she/he calls for someone of a lower rank who kills a much higher ranked person getting more fame/infamy off that person. Hunter Beta kills off Destroyer Alpha....and gets little to no fame. You know, if you think about it...that would be akin to .... Lowly farmhand Jeb takes on the great Wyatt Earpp and kills him right fairly in a gunfight. Now...EVERYONE would know Lowly Farmhand Jeb's name now. So...going on the OP's post...someone takes down say Ackron(don't know his rank..sorry...I really don't pay attention to those)...then...others would hear of it and their fame would go up...substantially. In EQ2 PvP...it doesn't. If that person was say untitled or just hunter..what does he get? Next to nothing or zip. Whereas...it SHOULD be a much greater amount. I can see where the OP is coming from. Let's keep the arguments about that please, instead of the title system as a whole. If Hunter Chai takes out Destroyer (Insert name here), I'd like to see her get more infamy than she would now. /shrug THAT would make more sense than it does right now. </blockquote>Problem is that Wyatt Earpp only died one time.. in a game like this, we revive <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />