Wizz and PVP (the death of a class) [Archive]

Saintedone

05-17-2007, 04:46 AM

For you solo PVP wizzies = you are a token machineIn T7 PVP the wizzy is the most resisted of all classes simply because the equiptment is out there to make you nothing more than a punching bag for any other class out there.On Vox server almost all T7 PVP'rs generally dont go out without SUPER resist gear on... I have Masters and AD 3 spells across the board. Maxxed out my wards and shields and go with free hand to boost my damage.Root -- useless Stuns -- resisted - cold based and long cast timesCold based spells -- resisted (most gear also includes Heat resist)Heat Based spells -- resisted (most gear also includes Cold resist)vrs ANY other classCombat arts -- ALMOST NO RESIST GEAR in the game and we wear clothPossibility of an UBER 3 adorns and 3 pcs of PVP gear = 300 token min of corse, and that will only get you to a level playing field with other classes, they still resist 2-3 out of 5 spells if not more and by that time Im being stunned and bashed (no evac) and handing out another token.Its to the point were I have to be in a group or in a raid to leave Q We have some very nice spells and we can do a lot of damage but unless i camp a cloud platform (in a group) or get into a fair 1 v 1 - It seems all I do is give out tokens lately.I do my best in PVP - I dont run from fights and have a good 2-1 kill ratio still, but Iv noticed the resist of all my spells going WAY up lately. For a class thats supose to be the CANNON of the game were slowly becoming nerfed ( roots-evacs-resist) into raid deligated only class and thats no good for the game..

Killque

05-17-2007, 05:20 AM

To be really honest, its hard to take a class that can one shot 3 people with 1 spell seriously with complaints like this.Resists aside, how many spells does it take to kill an average player at lvl 70? Please tell me that.Please list the spell and the dmg...

Eybietie

05-17-2007, 06:02 AM

how about accepting that certain classes only excel at group play?

CresentBlade

05-17-2007, 06:09 AM

Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>how about accepting that certain classes only excel at group play?</blockquote>If we can accept that casters need help with all the resists then I will accept your terms.<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />My debuffs that are suppose to make my other spells not get resisted so much, get resisted ALOT.

Saintedone

05-17-2007, 06:50 AM

To be honest lately my Master 1 Fusion gets resisted as much as it hits. I only use it spamming cloud platforms simply because its A - 5 sec cast timerB - close in spell 10-15 feet in game ( you can see it coming and get outta the way ) C - recast timer is almost 3 mins between castIn a perfect world (for a wizzy) it would hit 3 targets in range and 1 shot um, but my average damage PVP with fusion is between 5500-7k max with a nice knockback (cloud platform). Most T7 classes have more than 5500 HP's going into any fight so my best bet with my ultimate spell is that i hit someone coming into a cloud platform and take down more than 50% of there health and hope they cant evac or glide to a chain and die and then maby I get a token before the rest of his group comes in and wacks me.ROOTS dont stick and even if they do its for around 5 secs Next big spell Ice Nova A - 4 sec cast time - very nice range spellB - if it lands 3k- 4k damage with a knockback in pvp highly resistedC - 30 sec recast We have some nice debuffes and stuns but they are also cold based and highly resistableMy point in this thread is to show our comunity that our wizzard class is becoming nerft into a raid only class with no hope of good fights with anyone other than other wizzards - come now you didnt start playing on a pvp server and not want a good fight from a wizzard - no matter what class you are fighter priest scout even other mages.Oh did I fail to mention my Focus (how we cast spells in combat) is over 400 yet time in and time out almost any Combat Art that lands will interupt our spells.Next were looking forward to a great new exspansoin ROK with all new gear that will undoubtedly make it even harder for a wizz to hit with any kind of consistancy in PVP.Lastly, my wish here isnt to cry nerf and wallow a way in sorrow its that every time some class gets nerft it hurts every other class out there in the game - now if you want a solution get the devs to create real mage PVP gear and get some more gear out there that resist COMBAT ARTS and bring some balance back!!Forgot to answer the question posted on how many spells at lvl 70 = 2-5 would be a good average base to look at.

Killque

05-17-2007, 07:27 AM

Does it not upset you that you are a class that is capable of dishing out (in pvp mind you) 3-4k dmg every thirty seconds to a single target and 5500 -7500 dmg to three targets and your crying that it gets resisted half the time? That is INSAINE dps and if they "fixed" what you wanted them to, the wizard class would surpass every class in the game 10 fold!!!If you want to see what playing a wizard would be like with the fixes you want, go to the Arena and duel someone... No seriously, go and try it. Find someone who can beat you! I dare you.What casting skills have you + stats for? Your getting resisted, great. You do know you yourself can do something about it right?....

sprogn

05-17-2007, 07:30 AM

<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote>To be honest lately my Master 1 Fusion gets resisted as much as it hits. I only use it spamming cloud platforms simply because its A - 5 sec cast timerB - close in spell 10-15 feet in game ( you can see it coming and get outta the way ) C - recast timer is almost 3 mins between castIn a perfect world (for a wizzy) it would hit 3 targets in range and 1 shot um, but my average damage PVP with fusion is between 5500-7k max with a nice knockback (cloud platform). Most T7 classes have more than 5500 HP's going into any fight so my best bet with my ultimate spell is that i hit someone coming into a cloud platform and take down more than 50% of there health and hope they cant evac or glide to a chain and die and then maby I get a token before the rest of his group comes in and wacks me.ROOTS dont stick and even if they do its for around 5 secs Next big spell Ice Nova A - 4 sec cast time - very nice range spellB - if it lands 3k- 4k damage with a knockback in pvp highly resistedC - 30 sec recast We have some nice debuffes and stuns but they are also cold based and highly resistableMy point in this thread is to show our comunity that our wizzard class is becoming nerft into a raid only class with no hope of good fights with anyone other than other wizzards - come now you didnt start playing on a pvp server and not want a good fight from a wizzard - no matter what class you are fighter priest scout even other mages.Oh did I fail to mention my Focus (how we cast spells in combat) is over 400 yet time in and time out almost any Combat Art that lands will interupt our spells.Next were looking forward to a great new exspansoin ROK with all new gear that will undoubtedly make it even harder for a wizz to hit with any kind of consistancy in PVP.Lastly, my wish here isnt to cry nerf and wallow a way in sorrow its that every time some class gets nerft it hurts every other class out there in the game - now if you want a solution get the devs to create real mage PVP gear and get some more gear out there that resist COMBAT ARTS and bring some balance back!!Forgot to answer the question posted on how many spells at lvl 70 = 2-5 would be a good average base to look at.</blockquote> You'll find you're interrupted because the CA's that people with any braincells choose to use on a caster will be interrupts/stuns/stifles - most CA's won't stop you casting, it's just your opponents (correct) choice of them.And doing 5500-7000 PVP damage in PVP will flat out kill any other mage, most druids and a good portion of scouts. What it doesn't kill will start crapping their pants and running in the opposite way from you. No fighter except a brawler and possibly a berserker is going to even dent you. Furies, well we won't go there, everyone wants them to stop the pre-rege+vortex+pact combo. Rogue? Join the club, they're the anti-caster - pretty much anti-everything.But you have a 550 point regenerating ward in magi's shielding, another one in the KOS trees, and Manashield. Manashield alone can give you near 15K effective hitpoints- and with a possible 35% mitigation and 40% avoidance being very easily achievable I don't see you have anything to worry about.Yes it's annoying getting hit from behind with a decap - try playing a conjurer where our strongest nuke is about 900 PVP damage and agros everything around us. Oh the pets are sweet yes, but you have to count on getting the snare off and running around like a hopeless chicken while your pet tries to kill them.

Bozidar

05-17-2007, 10:16 AM

Wizards are alive, well, and pwning all over faces like they're original Pollock's.But T7 is broken for pvp.. accept it.

Norrsken

05-17-2007, 10:18 AM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizards are alive, well, and pwning all over faces like they're original Pollock's.But T7 is broken for pvp.. accept it. </blockquote>Which is one reason I am really glad they are upping the lvl cap. I am hoping that they will mend some of the wrongs with itemization we currently have. T7 gear will get outdated, and the new can be made with balance between spells/CAs in mind.

Bozidar

05-17-2007, 10:21 AM

Killque

05-17-2007, 10:53 AM

Upping the level cap just means that deminishing returns will make the +50agi +50str +50Wis gear acutally +1agi +1str and +1Wis <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Pumancat

05-17-2007, 12:13 PM

Sprognak wrote - You'll find you're interrupted because the CA's that people with any braincells choose to use on a caster will be interrupts/stuns/stifles - most CA's won't stop you casting, it's just your opponents (correct) choice of them. And doing 5500-7000 PVP damage in PVP will flat out kill any other mage, most druids and a good portion of scouts. What it doesn't kill will start crapping their pants and running in the opposite way from you. No fighter except a brawler and possibly a berserker is going to even dent you. Furies, well we won't go there, everyone wants them to stop the pre-rege+vortex+pact combo. Rogue? Join the club, they're the anti-caster - pretty much anti-everything.But you have a 550 point regenerating ward in magi's shielding, another one in the KOS trees, and Manashield. Manashield alone can give you near 15K effective hitpoints- and with a possible 35% mitigation and 40% avoidance being very easily achievable I don't see you have anything to worry about.It seems the main problem of imbalance is between Resists and Mitigation. While all classes have nice resist gear and wards, Mages have almost absolute 0 mit vs CA's. As a 70 wizard, I can state that most CA interrupt, and I have no defence because I'm busy waiting 4- 6 seconds trying to see if my nuke will cast/hit for even half the dmg it's supposed to.I had an awsome fight with a 70 Mystic the other day and he only beat me by one resist, was best fight I've had.And NO, what our nuke doesn't kill flat out (have never one shotted or even 2 shotted anyone) does NOT run away crapping their pants, they run right up to you and slash the bejesus out of you before you can cast the next spell.I once caught a 70 Swashy AFK, and started casting on him, had to be over a minute of spamming Fusion, IN, Ball, Debuffs, and dots. Finally after only 3 spells got him down to red, this person came back to his character and immediately ran up and hacked me to pieces with only 12% health left. And Manashield is THE WORST ward that can be done to a wizard. While fighting a monk the other day, I hit MS as he started pounding me, guess what?,,I was OOP before I could try to cast IN on him. So there I was, beaten down by my own ward/shield.As I said, the main problem with mage pvp is imbalance of mit vs CAs, and resists.Don't NERF anyone,,,,,Just give us Mages the love we deserve so we can stand bold and put up a fight with at least a hope of winning. Till then, YES, we are token bots.If you want to flame and tell me how YOU are an awsome wizard and can own almost everyone, or tell me to L2P, then I suggest first to prove your boasts, then show me and advise on how to do these things, cause I also am very tired of being the token bot.Nyarlath - 70 wizardVenekor server

Bozidar

05-17-2007, 12:35 PM

<cite>Pumancat wrote:</cite><blockquote>It seems the main problem of imbalance is between Resists and Mitigation. While all classes have nice resist gear and wards, Mages have almost absolute 0 mit vs CA's. </blockquote>You have low mitigation and high avoidance. It's not just mit that's protecting you from CAs, and unlike a resisted spell, a CA that "misses" takes it's full reuse timer to come back.

yellowbelly08

05-17-2007, 01:03 PM

I strongly dissagree. For example Krokorouge soloed mainly to be one of the 1st toons on server in legitimate full pvp gear. He can one shot scouts easily and i have only seen a monk and conjuror beat him in arena. Manashield makes a wiz one of the toughest pvp oponents. Ok they may be resisted the first two nukes but then the 3rd 1 shots you...working as intended imho...move along.Galoro

Elephanton

05-17-2007, 01:09 PM

40% avoidance is nothing, just forget about it, 9 out of 10 combat arts would still hit you.Remember that it's a 40% chance to avoid attack same level opponent w/out any attack skill buffs. While all melee fighers will PVP in offensive stance, which adds 10+ levels as for attack skills.Mitigation is all that matters for survivability.

Bozidar

05-17-2007, 01:12 PM

sprogn

05-17-2007, 09:13 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>40% avoidance is nothing, just forget about it, 9 out of 10 combat arts would still hit you.Remember that it's a 40% chance to avoid attack same level opponent w/out any attack skill buffs. While all melee fighers will PVP in offensive stance, which adds 10+ levels as for attack skills.Mitigation is all that matters for survivability.</blockquote> It's my understanding that if you're wearing cloth, and your avoidance isn't approaching that of a brawler, you're doing something wrong.</blockquote> Your sig says enough mate. Your understanding is flawed.

Saintedone

05-17-2007, 09:25 PM

For you trollers who are not T7 step away from the keyboard beause you have no I dea what your talking about...( sorry has to be said) T7 is the tier in wich PVP takes an unholy vengence upon any wizzard in the game plz dont be afraid to check out Manch on Vox or Shook on Vox ( IMO the best 2 PVP wizzies in the game). Both completely AA'd and PVP or Fabled out, they are at the TOP of the game period. Niether wizzy and i know and play with Manch and see Shook all the time will leave the safty of the evac without clear fair PVP 1v1 or in a group, not because there week but because its a crap shoot if your spells are gonna even hit and ANY class in the game has an advantage over you period the way things are currently in PVP.In PVE wizzies are still an extreamly awsome class to play but every couple months by gear or by nerf the high end wizzy has been nerfed and soon IMO will be a raid only toon in the grand sceeme of the game..At mid tiers wizzies are still effective in PVP but at T7 they are week.We wear cloth and as I stated in the OG post to the thread Combat Arts make us token machines because they land on us far more and faster than we can cast (remember a wizzy must stand still to cast). Our so called UBER avoidance doesnt make up for any kind of attack from Combat Arts. I've also stated I dont want ANY CLASS NERFED ( as a Wizz I know how it feels ) I want more CA resist gears and maby an ADjustment to our class's ability to defend ourselves in PVP.You say Manna Shield lol, while it has saved my butt from time to time its a 3 sec cast and very interuptable vai any Combat Art and once cast its only a matter of seconds to get away somehow and set and cast or the damage taken eats away ALL our power. A wizzy without power is a dead wizzy..

HerbertWalker

05-17-2007, 09:43 PM

I posted a thread about one week ago titled "36 champ wiz vs 43 dread brigand".Read it if interested. Wizard is the brigand killer in T2-T5, no doubt about that. Yeah, I'm the wizard that kills red con scouts solo every day.I don't see the problem with a class being overpowered solo from levels 1-60, and then becoming underpowered solo in T7. Why is that a problem?Do you have a problem with how gimped Guardians are SOLO from levels 1-70?If not, why not? Don't you think that is a worse problem? I do. No one plays guardian, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TOKEN MACHINE IF THERE EVER WAS ONE. So what, you are a token machine in T7. Big woop. Go play a token machine through 7 tiers then come crying here.To come on here and get all huffy about your character's lack of relative strength solo to other T7 soloers sure seems PETTY, when some classes are [Removed for Content] solo throughout their entire lifetime. You had T2-T6. Hope you enjoyed it.

Droka

05-17-2007, 09:50 PM

Its pointless to even try to get others to see why a wizzy is so gimped in pvp. There have been countless threads about resists for wizzys, there have been countless threads about how we have no way of staying alive.The only thing that people remember is the one time Ice Nova took them from 80% to death. Thats all they will remember. People ask me how many kills I have, and I tell them roughly 1700. They tell me thats not bad. Then we all start comparing our deaths, and I have 900. People say OMG DUDE [Removed for Content]!! You must suck or something! Well, that may be, but atleast I don't run. You will always get a fight from me even if it lasts 3 seconds. I actually feel bad for scouts, tanks, and some healers. I mean what satisfaction is there from killing things by time the first stun wears off. Yes I said the FIRST STUN.Anyways, I advise you to give up. SOE has not listened, and the majority of the player base only remembers the one time you killed them.Until they play a T7 wizard, they will not know. Yes we can kill.... see you almost got me to try and convince others. Enough said.

Saintedone

05-17-2007, 10:14 PM

The game was never created for level lock and theres a HUGE amount of content to explore that the level lockers miss out on..The reason Im saying the death of a class is because ALL other classes at T7 have an advantage over 1 class, a class that by all rights is suppose to be the big cannon of tyhe game..I consider myself as much a gamer as any of you - I pay to play just like any of you and Im not sitting here screaming plz nerf this class and that class because i cant win in PVP. What I am saying is I love playing a wizzard and have lived through all the nefs thrown my way and will somehow manage to continue to play a toon I've play from level 1 all the way through enjoying the content and all the game has to offer.There is a HUGE hole in the game and its the lack of any substantial CA resist gear for PVP while theres a huge abundance of resist gear for any elemental damage, now as described ther are 3 pcs pvp gear get at plus +300 vrs pierce/slash/crush 300 minimum T7 tokens ( a monumental task for a wizz in todays PVP)3 adorns get ya +67 to pierse/slash/crush @ lvl 60maby another 3-10 pcs out there through the tiersAnd these dont address real CA resist at all because the PVP gear for all the other classes (priest excluded) enhance your CA skills as well as your AA linesThis is why I came to discuss this topic - it needs to be addressed and for the entire game not just wizzies and magesIMO wizzy PVP gear should not enhance spells it should enhance CA resist, AA's (on PVP servers) should also enhance CA resist and not all the damage we can do.Look at this thread for the game and not for the wizzies and mages you will see it makes sence - NO NEW NERFS

HerbertWalker

05-18-2007, 12:13 AM

I think that they should address the solo guardian issue, then if there is time left after bringing certain other classes out of solo [Removed for Content] mode, go ahead and make the corrections necessary to address the solo T7 wizard concerns.What would make someone think that a T7 wizard was ever intended to be a solo PvP powerhouse, or even viable solo in T7 for that matter? Many classes are not viable solo in T7. I don't see the problem, especially when the wizard is an extremely overpowered class in T2-T4 due to manashield. You had your peak as a solo PvP wizard and surpassed it long ago - it was T3.My T1-7 guardian accepted his solo gimpness for 70 levels. Why can't a wizard accept solo gimpness for 10 levels?

Saintedone

05-18-2007, 03:38 AM

The point is that NO class should be gimped in a pvp world, and at T7 especially.. You grind to the pinnicle of the game to become a joke..Now that being said Im sorry you feel the guardian is a gimped class but my T3 Guardian does his job in PVP just fine - not a strong solo'r but still hard to kill.. The new mit system on him makes him even harder to kill then he was before... Unfortunately its doing the same for all the classes except cloth wearers who got shafted IMO on the deal.Not the point and not this thread...This is about wizzies and why at T7 they are a token machine and becoming harder to get groups and enjoying the content in the game..SOE is constistantly hurting a class with updates nerfs exspansions and gear when it isnt nessisary and is only hurting the gameplay for everyone...

sprogn

05-18-2007, 03:58 AM

<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote>For you trollers who are not T7 step away from the keyboard beause you have no I dea what your talking about...( sorry has to be said) T7 is the tier in wich PVP takes an unholy vengence upon any wizzard in the game plz dont be afraid to check out Manch on Vox or Shook on Vox ( IMO the best 2 PVP wizzies in the game). Both completely AA'd and PVP or Fabled out, they are at the TOP of the game period. Niether wizzy and i know and play with Manch and see Shook all the time will leave the safty of the evac without clear fair PVP 1v1 or in a group, not because there week but because its a crap shoot if your spells are gonna even hit and ANY class in the game has an advantage over you period the way things are currently in PVP.In PVE wizzies are still an extreamly awsome class to play but every couple months by gear or by nerf the high end wizzy has been nerfed and soon IMO will be a raid only toon in the grand sceeme of the game..At mid tiers wizzies are still effective in PVP but at T7 they are week.We wear cloth and as I stated in the OG post to the thread Combat Arts make us token machines because they land on us far more and faster than we can cast (remember a wizzy must stand still to cast). Our so called UBER avoidance doesnt make up for any kind of attack from Combat Arts. I've also stated I dont want ANY CLASS NERFED ( as a Wizz I know how it feels ) I want more CA resist gears and maby an ADjustment to our class's ability to defend ourselves in PVP.You say Manna Shield lol, while it has saved my butt from time to time its a 3 sec cast and very interuptable vai any Combat Art and once cast its only a matter of seconds to get away somehow and set and cast or the damage taken eats away ALL our power. A wizzy without power is a dead wizzy..</blockquote>I have two L70's - a Conjurer and a Berserker. The point I am trying to make is that out of all the mage classes, Wizzie has the most defences. You may say manashield and regenerating wards suck, but it's a hell of a lot more than others have. I agree, something needs to be done - but it needs to be on a global mage scale. Something like 50% PVP mitigation on Magi's Shielding...

Saintedone

05-18-2007, 04:21 AM

One of my best budds in the game is a zerker and we used to go at it in the areana - and I know a very good conj.Unfirtunately from yr post our defences as you say are way better than yrs Zerkers - I dont need to tell you, you have a +10 to there CA's in PVP making them a serious force in T7 considering the CA's vrs cloth wearers is one of the main problems in pvp. I dont know your play style but I can tell you simply an end game zerker can own any cloth wearer in the game.. dont really need to go farther into it.Conjies - if set up right are almost unstopable in pvp - there pets use the CA's and hit pritty damb hard interupting the heck outta everything i throw at um..I dont need to defend wizzies to every class in the game as mentioned above the problem with the game is the gear nerfs and AA's in pvp Btw - that zerker owns me in pvp these days when in T3-T6 we traded off regullarly and had a blast with the game.so - back to the issue at hand CA's land at a huge dissadvantage to any cloth wearer, gear out there is specificaly geared against wizzies go to your broker type in legendary cold or heat resist then see if you can find any CA resist gear, same for fabled, same for pvp gears enhancing the CA's while wizzy pvp gear simply enhanses our spells that are alrdy being resisted and will continue to be resisted 2-3 time outta 5 cast the average in todays pvp game..

sprogn

05-18-2007, 06:36 AM

<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote>One of my best budds in the game is a zerker and we used to go at it in the areana - and I know a very good conj.Unfirtunately from yr post our defences as you say are way better than yrs Zerkers - I dont need to tell you, you have a +10 to there CA's in PVP making them a serious force in T7 considering the CA's vrs cloth wearers is one of the main problems in pvp. I dont know your play style but I can tell you simply an end game zerker can own any cloth wearer in the game.. dont really need to go farther into it.Conjies - if set up right are almost unstopable in pvp - there pets use the CA's and hit pritty damb hard interupting the heck outta everything i throw at um..I dont need to defend wizzies to every class in the game as mentioned above the problem with the game is the gear nerfs and AA's in pvp Btw - that zerker owns me in pvp these days when in T3-T6 we traded off regullarly and had a blast with the game.so - back to the issue at hand CA's land at a huge dissadvantage to any cloth wearer, gear out there is specificaly geared against wizzies go to your broker type in legendary cold or heat resist then see if you can find any CA resist gear, same for fabled, same for pvp gears enhancing the CA's while wizzy pvp gear simply enhanses our spells that are alrdy being resisted and will continue to be resisted 2-3 time outta 5 cast the average in todays pvp game..</blockquote> Again, I agree CA's vs Spells are at difference here, but from the sounds of it, your tactics are shot too. If a Conj has a scout pet on you, you can one shot it with one of the lesser nukes quite easily. Or simply root it. A conj without his pet is a weak arsed wizard at best.Yes zerkers can be formidable, but there's plenty of classes out there to hand their arses to them. And with the right setup a Wizard who see's one coming should have no difficulty taking them down.My point is, any scout can rip through a conj in under 2 seconds with a good stalking/jumping tactic, - you get manashield and the wards so you're probably at 6 seconds. It still isn't right, but it's still by far the best of the mages.And while we're on the subject of this, what the F*** is going on with Shadowknights? Sorry to derail, but just had a duel against a SK on Naggy - I had immunity ticking down so stacked up blazing avatar, elemental vestament, planar shift. Fight starts and I stoneskin his harmtouch and first couple of hits, I'm loading him up with every dot/nuke/stun/daze combo known to man and frog and he's standing there nuking me back. He didn't melee once. I die, he's at 98% health.ACT showed me doing 8K damage, SK healing 7.7K and hitting me for 10K over 26 seconds.

XeroXs84

05-18-2007, 06:51 AM

<cite>yellowbelly08 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I strongly dissagree. For example Krokorouge soloed mainly to be one of the 1st toons on server in legitimate full pvp gear. He can one shot scouts easily and i have only seen a monk and conjuror beat him in arena. Manashield makes a wiz one of the toughest pvp oponents. Ok they may be resisted the first two nukes but then the 3rd 1 shots you...working as intended imho...move along.Galoro</blockquote>Well i wouldnt use the Arena as any proof for pvp, as the ruleset is completely different. Manashield indeed is a big help, which is why i am having it, but then again... dont forget scouts always get the jump (talking about 1v1 here) due to tracking.. a mage will never get the jump on a scout, unless the scout is afk or not paying attention. So what happens is.. any scout jumps me, stuns me, gets a few big hits off, then i might be able to get manashield off (usually it works very close to 0 hp).. ok that gives me a bit of time... As warlock, if i am not in a place with 125 adds, i can port the scout then away.. well, if its a ranger .. bad idea, if its a swashy, doesnt matter really due to reach aa, if its brig/assasin it COULD (as the port is in random location he could also end up just behind me waiting with decap lol) help... but yes, manashield gives me alot of extra hp.. but like a assasin can easy get me OOP then with 2-3 hits.. same for any other scout. so yes i live longer usually (which is why this is nice if u wait for backup), but usually it wont save your ... Then again, i am ofc no uber warlock, but thats how i see it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

DarkRenown

05-18-2007, 07:18 AM

As a Warlock, I would like to add my two penneth.The thing about Locksa and Wizzies, is that they are meant to be the big cannons. As with any big cannon, you are supposed to have a major flaw, and that is oru weakness in melee.We are like the Artillery. We should be a long way back, with a lot of meat shields in front of us doing huge damage. What we shouldn't be is up close and personal.That said, 2 of our biggest damage dealers (Rift and Fusion) have a ridiculously short range. But that's to stop us doing exactly what classes like the Ranger can do.But, we do have Wards (they can be dispelled annoyingly). We have good avoidance if specced correctly, and we have some nice abilities which can save us in a pinch.The problem is that we have slow cast times (in PvP this is the killer imo. It just takes us too long to do damage. When we do damage however, boy is it pretty). We have to stand still (which again in PvP makes us the token machine). We wear cloth (duh!).I know people will go on about resist gear, and how any class can easily get 60-70% resist for our spells. This is true. However, EoF also gave us lots of nice gear to add to our spell casting levels (ie disruption) meaning we cast at an effective level of something like 75 now. This also means that for those people with 70% resist, this pushes it way down. So resists aren't the answer.However, wards are. The fact you can buy wards to protect you against all forms of damage, is a killer if you are a caster. We can't do that against a melee class.But at the end of the day, we shouldn't be close enough to be hit by melee. We just need to find a way to stop them getting to us. We have roots, and teleports which give us distance. It is a case of SOE haven't quite got the balance right for most casters in solo PvP. But then again, we are an artillery class. We should be in a group. We should be behind a shield, with a healer, wiping out swathes of foes, while they try to pick us off.We will always be at a disadvantage solo. I hate solo PvP, I die a lot. But in a group, oh boy, oh pretty pretty damage!

Saintedone

05-18-2007, 11:33 AM

I agree with warlocks having some up close ports and such giving them that extra little inclose defence wich is why a worlock still has a good shot at PVP while wizzies do not. In a pvp 1v1 contest I have a chance but as you say most classes brag about being able to resist 50-70% of our spells - our wards also put us into combat slowing our movement - we can also chain in a couple potions to remove stunns and stiffles, I also agree that worlocks got some nice pvp gears but the fact remains without any CA resist gear were are still taking a lot of dirt naps when we fight. I can gear up to fight locks but i cant gear up to fight any scout / fighter or priest class that uses CA's. No T7 pvp'r that see's a wizzy is running its easy enough to avoid the fusion cone if not interupt it all together and then if we do get the 5 sec cast off there chances of resisting ( master 1) it are better than 60% while a simple shield bash lands 90% of the time because there no gear out there to resist it or enhance our avaiodance from these attacks, our roots have been useless for a while now landing 20-30% of the time and getting wiped off with a 2 sec cast potion hotkey'd in. I like some of the stuff they did with the locks - but Iv been a T7 wizzy for a while now and all that i have seen is us moving in the wrong direction, while every update, exspansion, helps scouts fighters and even some priest become imune to our class.

HerbertWalker

05-18-2007, 08:36 PM

To sum up, wizards & warlocks shine in groups much like some other classes.They also have some low tiers in which they also shine solo. Not the death of a class. Rather a shift out of the realm of effective solo PvP once reaching T7. Or... the sky is falling, you decide.

Valdar

05-18-2007, 09:58 PM

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizards are alive, well, and pwning all over faces like they're original Pollock's.But T7 is broken for pvp.. accept it. </blockquote>Which is one reason I am really glad they are upping the lvl cap. I am hoping that they will mend some of the wrongs with itemization we currently have. T7 gear will get outdated, and the new can be made with balance between spells/CAs in mind. </blockquote>Wizards will be even weaker in T8. The scouts will get more combat arts, that will in all likelyhood be on short cast timers which will further increase their burst dps. Wizards will get some new spells that will probably be on long cast timers, which means that they won't get them off. Also for all the people that seem to think that the wizard is just fine and merely played by noobs, I'd suggest you consider the following just so you have an impression of how small the odds are of a wizard winning a 1vs1. Imo the following spell line would have the highest chance of success of winning. Personally I wouldn't bother trying to root as it can be cured or a potion to get immunity can be used. Also no fusion as it has 5m range and a casting time of 5s, so odds of firing off that spell while someone is melleing/stunning/interrupting you are close to zero. 1st Debuff with Rending Icicles 1s casting time 2nd Stun for 3s with Incapacitate 2s casting time 3rd Nuke & Stun for 1.5s with Ice Nova 4s casting time 4th Nuke with Ball of Lava 3s casting time Total combat time = 10s. Let's assume most classes resist at least 50% of all spells. That would mean that the odds that this series of events required to win will happen equals 0.5^4=6.25%. You might be able to increase these odds with aa's by skipping the stun and using catalyst before Ice novahoping that it will be enough to burn your opponent down, but I wouldn't put too much thrust in that. And it would only increase your odds to 0.5^3=12.5%. In reality the odds will be lower as not only will you have to deal with resists, but also with interrupts. Also there is virtually no margin for error. If your opponent gets in close you die.

Saintedone

05-18-2007, 11:33 PM

Fanally someone else who has the vision to see whats on the horizon for the wizzy class, Great post...If you think in terms of game progression and pvp at the rate weve been at for a bit almost a 1 1/2 by the time RoK comes out the wizzies will be a raid only class as stated in the origonal post..Problems as I see them..A - Most gear drops (with elemental resist) consist of not only cold but heat resist ON THE SAME piece -Most players at T7 right now have between 6-7k resist to both wizzy based spells, this will only increace as newer gear becomes available.B - Casting timers right now favor the CA's, another HUGE disadvantage to any mage (not just wizzies)Catsing spell timers will only go up in the future spells while the CA's will remain the same or get even faster...C - The lack of CA resist via Gear - AA - Buffs - Wards - Adorns (anyway we can get it)1 good decap and my wards are down and I stack 3 in pvp right now..Also once the wards take damage Im ingaged in combat..D - none of our power can really be brought to the pvp game (except fusion on a platform)resistability and casting rules mean its a complete crap shoot ( 40%-70% resist plus the fact we have to stand still to cast) my most realiable spells mean nothing in pvp while CA's get bonuses to hit) This also means our UBER avoidance means nothing as well. SOE has missed the boat so far as the wizzy class one of the strogest classes for EQ1 is now a joke in EQ2. Smeadly always speaks about the players making the game what it is - the only problem with that is SOE's rules sets for PVP favors certain classes while making others weaker in the same wave of an upload. I was an avide SWG player as well until the day they came out with the NGE. This is a much more painfull slower death because it has taken a year and a half to get here. I know you devs know exactly what is happening to the pvp game and the wizzy class is just the first staple class in game to get the death penalty. As CA based classes with continue to get stronger and the rest of us will get weaker untill you have scout based servers and everyone leaves PVP for the regular game with no PVP other than the areana. SOE had a huge boost when they brought PVP into the game only to see it falling apart day by day and upload by upload, the reason is simple - PLAYERS WANT BALLANCE NOT NERFS - untill SOE can figure this out and deliver it to your PVP comunity, the community will continue to shrink and continue to leave the game.

Eybietie

05-19-2007, 01:09 AM

the real problem i see is this :let´s assume no spell gets resisted. that´s what you kind of want i think. stiffle ( 0,5 sec cast back on my pve days dunno if that changed.. ) in case the enemy is near - aoe slow. autoslay should easily be warded for the first 5 sec.stun - root ( just in case ) - nuke nuke nuke etc etc. how would one stop that?giving the mage more mitigation would make pve farming even more easier than it is now. i think the whole idea of *gandalfs* running arround in pvp does not work. that´s just imo of course <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Saintedone

05-19-2007, 01:54 AM

IM not looking for a gandalf wizzard class in the game unless its an NPC we can raid for some AA and loot, lolWere in a PVP world - gear that drops ehances 3/4ths of the players and leaves a 1/4 out in pvpCA's vrs Spell castingThe way the game is set up in PVE beniffits the group the way things are now.THIS DOES NOT WORK ON PVP SERVERSIts not just mages, no one IMO wants to see a scout based EQ2 game (unless maby your a scout class and you think that way), but thats exactly where were heading on all the PVP servers. Hasnt anyone noticed quite a few hardcore players leaving lately..PVP is broken because it continues to help out CA based classes while at the same time KILLING spell based classes. As the game progresses into tier 8 were only going to see the same thing effecting more and more classes untill you dont see anyone but scouts out there. This is already happening by way of fairwell post, hardcore players not logging in except to raid, ppl retiring classes and rerolling scouts just so they can enjoy pvp.There are other issues in the game effecting PVP but IMO the biggest one we face is the CA's vrs Casting spells, the gear and the nerfs. There new fix all for pvp mittigation just took out a class in one foul update while at the same time made CA based classes even stronger. Remember a year ago when we all opened up pandoras box in EQ2 pvp and we saw every class enjoying the game again with its new feature, then came the nerfs and the whining (I didnt post any). Now were a year and a half older and the devs have managed to try and fix PVP for all and instead have managed to mess the game up because they develop for PVE and then try and manage PVP with the same content ultimately taking us to were we are now. My plee to the devs isnt to make wizzies all UBER and Gandalfish, its to add drops/quest/adorns/AA's on PVP servers that benifit casters Vrs CA's and at the same time bring more balance to the game.

Oidan

05-19-2007, 04:20 AM

Cant really compare spells to Ca's. If a CA does not hit, melee types have plenty more where that came from with very short casting times. The only time a CA will get interrupted is if a interrupt type spell is casted (and not resisted). Spells are resisted on a way greater level than CA's. Spells take longer to cast. The fantastic damage that Wizzy's can do take a lot of time to cast. The wiz can be dead before 1 spell can get off. Casters are reactive not proactive unless in a grp. Unless you catch someone with their pants down or they are stupid, hopefully root or stun will work and you can get some nukes in. People see fantastic damage and think they have to be careful. Only mobs have to be careful. Pvp scene does not = Pve.The Arena = different ruleset. You cannot even remotely get any real perspective when comparing to pvp ruleset.Resist Gear vs mitigation gear = almost non existant. Adornments are crap to make any real difference.Pvp leans heavily towards scouts especially Brigands with their stun lock I win, you lose you suck abilty. Swashy's are equally good. SK's and their beloved Harm Touch (not really a touch when it has a great range...)Healers can be very tough, especially druid classes.Mages have it the hardest. The only thing I would like to see changed is the resists problem and add more vs slashing, piercing and crushing damage to cloth gear. Be imaginative.

Eybietie

05-19-2007, 08:57 AM

<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote>IM not looking for a gandalf wizzard class in the game unless its an NPC we can raid for some AA and loot, lol...My plee to the devs isnt to make wizzies all UBER and Gandalfish, its to add drops/quest/adorns/AA's on PVP servers that benifit casters Vrs CA's and at the same time bring more balance to the game. </blockquote> na i didn´t mean you want to be gandalf but all you mages would be if there was no resist. imo. i could live even with that. hell i don´t care if a solo swash engarde/inspiration wtfpwnz me <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> there will allways be a class of the month <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but from my experience - i really like to have a wizard in my group because a mage can be ultimative pain in group vs group pvp. to the above poster : atm it is swash > brig - big times. swash don´t even need a stun lock to tear through anything when shorttimes are up but that is totally offtopic so forget it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i just wanted you to imagine how it can turn out if they give the wizard class a significant enhancement...

Norrsken

05-19-2007, 10:09 AM

<cite>Valdar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizards are alive, well, and pwning all over faces like they're original Pollock's.But T7 is broken for pvp.. accept it. </blockquote>Which is one reason I am really glad they are upping the lvl cap. I am hoping that they will mend some of the wrongs with itemization we currently have. T7 gear will get outdated, and the new can be made with balance between spells/CAs in mind. </blockquote>Wizards will be even weaker in T8. The scouts will get more combat arts, that will in all likelyhood be on short cast timers which will further increase their burst dps. Wizards will get some new spells that will probably be on long cast timers, which means that they won't get them off. Also for all the people that seem to think that the wizard is just fine and merely played by noobs, I'd suggest you consider the following just so you have an impression of how small the odds are of a wizard winning a 1vs1. Imo the following spell line would have the highest chance of success of winning. Personally I wouldn't bother trying to root as it can be cured or a potion to get immunity can be used. Also no fusion as it has 5m range and a casting time of 5s, so odds of firing off that spell while someone is melleing/stunning/interrupting you are close to zero. 1st Debuff with Rending Icicles 1s casting time 2nd Stun for 3s with Incapacitate 2s casting time 3rd Nuke & Stun for 1.5s with Ice Nova 4s casting time 4th Nuke with Ball of Lava 3s casting time Total combat time = 10s. Let's assume most classes resist at least 50% of all spells. That would mean that the odds that this series of events required to win will happen equals 0.5^4=6.25%. You might be able to increase these odds with aa's by skipping the stun and using catalyst before Ice novahoping that it will be enough to burn your opponent down, but I wouldn't put too much thrust in that. And it would only increase your odds to 0.5^3=12.5%. In reality the odds will be lower as not only will you have to deal with resists, but also with interrupts. Also there is virtually no margin for error. If your opponent gets in close you die. </blockquote>You really completely missed the point of my post.

Saintedone

05-19-2007, 10:23 PM

I beleave in resist as well I've never once in this thread said to nerf anyone or there gear....My hope would be to see new gear for casters not focused on spells rather focused on resisting Combat Arts in PVP. I mean our mighty all powerful EoF pvp gear robe gives us a casting time boost on Ice Nova ( granted its nice but if ice nova gets resisted 50% of the time in pvp then what good is it in pvp).Were as if we got the same robe with a bonus vrs any CA bash it then becomes REAL CASTER PVP GEAR.You can all think of your own kind that was just a general example I threw out there. If every class weres gear to resist your class then why cant wizzies wear gear that resist those classes (right now if your a fighter class your pvp'n in Offence Stance and at T7 thats what a +10 to your CA skills again just a general example, I dont think I really need to bring scout classes into it.Have to edit the pvp gear lol - take the Ice Nova bonus OFF the robe and replace it with a CA resist (you choose) Lol, just got in 2 fights -scouts resisted 2 spells couldnt get manna shield off - dead in no more than 8 secs each fight.CA's landing 70-90% of the time, spell resist total 100%, no chance to even fight. 'oh by the way have a token'.

Saintedone

05-22-2007, 03:22 AM

bumped because of new edit...^^^

Rabbitoh

05-22-2007, 04:13 AM

Guys/girls, i would have to say from a ranger/assasin, brig/swash point of view, all cloth wearers are walking tokens.My main char is a ranger and i would gladly take on a group of casters if i ever saw it. My resists for cold/heat are over 5500 when i go out pvping without changing up my gear. Ice Nova if it ever hits me, is for only around 1000-1550k and there is no way ever a wizzie will be around long enough to have another shot at me. Mana sheild just delays my kill and if someone is stupid enough to wait for fusion to cast, then you can be assured they bought their character.My 3rd biggest hit (veil of fire) will take a caster into deep orange/red and my next ca completes the kill. Warlocks pose no problem either, I just have to wait 10 secs for their sheild to burn off to kill them. Conjies/necros are just as easy, if not easier to kill, as i just root their pets for 7 secs, go stealth when i see swarm pets.A life of a caster imo would be a sad existance and anyone that says ILP to T7 caster should shutup. In group pvp a caster should ALWAYS be the 1st to die (and is in my groups), not much fun once again being the main target.For all of the noobs who said go to the arena and try it, shut up as well. The arena has nothing to do with pvp in the wild, completely different set of rules.I agree that casters in general need another twink, the attempt to help you guys the 1st time was good, but not enough. I take my hat off to all clothies and i really appreciate you guys for playing your class as, your essential for raid mobs.If a Dev reads this thread, give clothies another twink as they need it.Ranger Molok of the guild Vigilante.

HerbertWalker

05-23-2007, 12:41 AM

<cite>Rabbitoh wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guys/girls, i would have to say from a ranger/assasin, brig/swash point of view, all cloth wearers are walking tokens.</blockquote> Do you really believe that a level 20 wizard with 50AA and Fabled/Masters is a walking token for anyone?If so, you are uninformed, and thus to make a universal statement like that you've made a foolish post. How would you know about all cloth wearers? You cannot open your post with a universal statement like that, and then go on and on about T7 (not a universal tier, and one which many of us never care to reach again.)Since I play a 90% solo champion wizard that solos red/orange/yellow brigands/assassins daily, I know that you are plain wrong - that ALL cloth wearers are walking tokens. It's the people that attack me solo that are the token, and oh how surprised they ALWAYS are. Like you, apparently they have never fought an uberly twinked out locked battlemage in the lower tiers.I have made plenty of posts describing my battles. No one believes the stories until they actually fight this green/grey con wizard in question. Oh, there are plenty of upcoming battelmages, but it takes a lot of AA, spells, and gear to get uber. That is a lot of time that many folks will give up halfway through.There are classes that are the bane to my twinked out locked T4 wizard (locked at 18, currently 38 and rising super slowly), but those classes are definately not scouts, fighters, mages, nor clerics. I'm sure you know what I mean, even though you are wrong about this particular wearer of cloth.

Saintedone

05-23-2007, 01:56 AM

TY Rab for seeing the truth of T7 pvp as a caster and not being a caster... /bowmy hope isnt a nerf on anyone - my hope is some kind of CA resist gear and CA resist proc gear some AA's that match pvp and PVP gear that instead of spell procs give us accual CA defence..If your not a T7 pvp'r then this post has nothing to do with level lockers, Its an honest assessment of the game as it is right now in pvp T7 and what would not only help out casters but the pvp game as well... The reason this needs to be addressed is becasue we have new things coming on the horizon and if this issue (spell casting vrs CA's) doesnt get resolved there can be no future for casters other than raids on a pvp server...

Rabbitoh

05-23-2007, 04:29 AM

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rabbitoh wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guys/girls, i would have to say from a ranger/assasin, brig/swash point of view, all cloth wearers are walking tokens.</blockquote> Do you really believe that a level 20 wizard with 50AA and Fabled/Masters is a walking token for anyone?If so, you are uninformed, and thus to make a universal statement like that you've made a foolish post. How would you know about all cloth wearers? You cannot open your post with a universal statement like that, and then go on and on about T7 (not a universal tier, and one which many of us never care to reach again.)Since I play a 90% solo champion wizard that solos red/orange/yellow brigands/assassins daily, I know that you are plain wrong - that ALL cloth wearers are walking tokens. It's the people that attack me solo that are the token, and oh how surprised they ALWAYS are. Like you, apparently they have never fought an uberly twinked out locked battlemage in the lower tiers.I have made plenty of posts describing my battles. No one believes the stories until they actually fight this green/grey con wizard in question. Oh, there are plenty of upcoming battelmages, but it takes a lot of AA, spells, and gear to get uber. That is a lot of time that many folks will give up halfway through.There are classes that are the bane to my twinked out locked T4 wizard (locked at 18, currently 38 and rising super slowly), but those classes are definately not scouts, fighters, mages, nor clerics. I'm sure you know what I mean, even though you are wrong about this particular wearer of cloth.</blockquote>I don't give a crap lvl locked twinks who are too lazy to experience the end game. Not much skill killing people leveling up and you being mastered/fabled (blah blah blah).I was talking about t7 noob, maybe if you pulled you finger out and levelled up you would know what it is like to play a real caster with all of his skills, compared to the rest of the server.Put a t7 ranger/assasin, swahie/brig against any caster and i would bet on the scout.Level locked players imo are a waste of space. Don't post here if you only play half of the game.

Eldril

05-23-2007, 05:10 AM

Maybe what they should do is give wizzards a new line of spell like in EQ1 called lures...low casting speed low dmg unresistable nukes. 2s casting time and around 1000-1500dmg. I think this would solve a lot of problems. If a wizzard wants to risk for 1 gazillion hps but resistable nuke then it is his choise. Or he could actually use a lower dmg unresistable nuke for more standard results.

Soulhunt

05-23-2007, 05:40 AM

the way i see it....people remember this was a pve group environment game to start?...pvp was an after thought...so some classes will have their problems soloing. not all classes are as effective soloing as others.paper ,rock ,sissors ....scouts own mages, fighter own scouts, mages own fighters, healers unique and fall in all catagories. we all know that there is always an exception to the rule but this is a general statement.clothies if u find urself as token bait for scouts then go find a group....ur a glass cannon...find some one to protect ur fagile butt and all will be well. everyone knows that mages in a group are very effective.SOULHUNTER , destroyer of clothies

Oneira

05-23-2007, 08:00 AM

Soulhunter@Vox wrote: <blockquote>the way i see it....people remember this was a pve group environment game to start?...pvp was an after thought...so some classes will have their problems soloing. not all classes are as effective soloing as others.paper ,rock ,sissors ....scouts own mages, fighter own scouts, mages own fighters, healers unique and fall in all catagories. we all know that there is always an exception to the rule but this is a general statement.clothies if u find urself as token bait for scouts then go find a group....ur a glass cannon...find some one to protect ur [I cannot control my vocabulary] butt and all will be well. everyone knows that mages in a group are very effective.SOULHUNTER , destroyer of clothies</blockquote> Wrong. Fighters do not own scouts. Just ask any swashie or brigand about that. Ask any ranger how much they fear guardians and zerkers, lol. Ask bruisers how they fare against swashies. The rock paper scissors argument is bogus when it comes to the 3 main rogue/predator classes.

Pumancat

05-23-2007, 11:08 AM

Lanilarithis@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Maybe what they should do is give wizzards a new line of spell like in EQ1 called lures...low casting speed low dmg unresistable nukes. 2s casting time and around 1000-1500dmg. I think this would solve a lot of problems. If a wizzard wants to risk for 1 gazillion hps but resistable nuke then it is his choise. Or he could actually use a lower dmg unresistable nuke for more standard results.</blockquote>Point 1: there's no such thing as an unresistable spell, as most in T7 have resists in the 5K+Point 2: wizards have 3 2second cast mini nukes, and guess what? they're easily resisted, or even interrupted by a swashy's instant casted CAs, or a ranger's multi instant shots.No offence personally Lanilarithis, but your posting is totally obsurd, and seems that it is coming from a very noob player who is probably a low lvl locked scout. The main problem always has been and always will be, that mage classes have a very bad disadvantage of mitigation vs resist ( wizards especially). While all classes have very high resists obtained through everything on game, we have extremely little that provides us with any defence vs CAs.A T7 ranger can multi shoot me with 4 - 7 kinds of attacks and kill me in 4 seconds, where as I'm supposed to be able to do same amount of dmg in one casting of same amount of time, but cannot even finish that one casting due to the multi attacks that interrupt as well as dmg, and are resisted most of the time.Make Ice Nova the same casting time, and resisted as Rain of Arrows, and I show you alot of people SCREAMING for nerfs and imbalances.Or better, give the scout and tank classes resists equal to the mit of mage classes and see how fast people will call for nerfs still. None of this "diminishing return" BS. that got ninja nerfed a week later. The PVP aspect of this game is primarily based on CA/mit not on magic/resists.Nyarlath - 70 wizardVenekor server

Soulhunt

05-23-2007, 11:19 AM

Wrong. Fighters do not own scouts. Just ask any swashie or brigand about that. Ask any ranger how much they fear guardians and zerkers, lol. Ask bruisers how they fare against swashies.well as i said before there are exceptions...brig and swashies are overpowered as we all know. they are set up in a way that gives them an advantage over most any class. guardians need more dps or permenant mitigation buffs. some changes in all classes are needed of course to balance things out.there is a class out there that every other class has a hard time in pvp.some have more then others.SOULHUNTERps... mages have it tough when it comes to being resisted....we all know it.resists need to be changed but not so they land every hit. also swashies/brigs in offensive mode interup is 25% chance every swing or ca i beleive.

Microbolt

05-23-2007, 11:43 AM

If you as a wizard are having problems you are doing something wrong <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I've killed plenty of every class as an ranger. And been killed by every class too. As a wizard if all you do is nuke you will never win. In PvP wizards are not strait up DPS. You need to use all your ablitles and not just cast Ice Nova and hope its not resisted <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />There have been plenty of wizards I've fought that handed my butt to me. And I would run into them later and they would STILL beat me =D. So, if your having any problems you probably ought to looking into your stradegy.Also, on a side note. This game was not designed for ever class to be able to beat every class. This game would be very boring if so. Just because you can't win against certain classes doesn't mean you need to scream nerf. Try different things like before you engage, cast your damage shield on you, stifle them when almost at melee range, ese your AA to guarentee next hit is critical, ice nova, stun, ball of lava, etc.

Bozidar

05-23-2007, 11:46 AM

Gah, don't tell them things like that!!Nerf common sense!!!

Skeptycal

05-23-2007, 01:22 PM

Are the wizards dead yet so we can quit seeing this thread pop up =)Try playing a necro in pvp if you think wizards are hard. You'll have NO wards or manashields and your highest nuke of all time will be 3-4k on a crit with a perfect group.Go ahead ... try that first then come say wizards cant kill anyone =P

tass

05-23-2007, 01:37 PM

naw necroes have a bigger survival rate in the early levels over wizards. Just for the amount of dmg and life sucked out of a person at 1 time. However come t7 pet classes are just screwed.

KannaWhoopass

05-23-2007, 02:01 PM

All drama aside I believe the OP needs to consider.What can my class do vs what do i want it to do .If you want a class who will press 2 buttons and kill every class on the server ..you are out of luck.I would ask that you consider that Wizards alone should die 80% of the time.If you can accept that then i think the class will live up to your expectations.When in a duo grp however you will start to destroy groups of 2 or 3. if you are being kept safe you can unload hell.in a group you are amazing .. with tanks keeping others from hitting you , and a healer keeping you alive thru hits. you can unleash massive dps .. and in the confusion of battle fussion can be cast in the middle of a fight for devastating effect.In a Raid of x2 or more ... you are godly.. It becomes the goal to kill the cloth wearers fast cause they are going to win the fight. PvP raids start ignoring healers and burn down the cloth wearers. There is a reson for this .. they are going to blow up members of your raid.2 wizards who cast on a healer will drop him in PvP 2 wizards with a troub in the grp will drop a tank. The thing with Wizards is this ...On a blue server they are massive DPS and one of the best farming classes because they can root nuke root nuke orange ^^^ names if they have enough power and skill. They are solo gods.On a PvP server they are TEAM players ..they add greatly to a group. Rangers and Assasins brigands swashies are better at solo.They start to loose power in groups. They are still good dont get me wrong but in grp PvP or Raid .. if wizzies are not beating up scouts in DPS ... you are doing something wrong. One of the most common things said by PvP groups when they loose is"Ok guys revive and lets fight them again. This time kill the caster first!"

Bogenbroom123

05-24-2007, 07:29 PM

I play a 70 wiz on nagafen. This post is pretty accurate. Wizzies are meant for group pvp at t7 and not solo (unless it's vs other casters) it seems. Even with stun potions, a wiz is hard pressed to win in pvp vs a melee class. The spell resist nerfs hurt the class a lot, and when you Ice Nova M1 a lvl 70 player and you're lvl 70 as well, and it's after you've landed the cold/heat resist redux on him, and the nova only hits for 1200 dmg, it's not going to go well for the wiz. As for the posts on using fusion...HA! FUSION IS NOT A SOLO PVP SPELL...unless, of course, you're fighting bots, who stay in one tight group. Fusion is the easiest of all spells to avoid, as it only has a 60% radius and 15meter range with a 5 second cast time (even with the spell haste aa's it is slower than toast.) How many people in the game can cast a 5 second spell vs any class and not get interrupted? It's possible vs bots, but vs real player...nope. Anyway, I've just become used to getting wasted by 95% of every player I see at T7 when I'm out soloing or harvesting. In groups, I have no complaints, as a group with a few wizzies a tank and a healer can get the job done quickly enough in a pvp situation. I guess SOE wanted to pay us back for the millions of scouts we wasted from lvl 10-60. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Droka

05-24-2007, 10:00 PM

Every day I play I end up asking myself why the heck do I keep trying to play this wizard.Then I think, why would I want to be swashy #438762, which makes me feel better...for a bit, until I find something else that makes me as why.....until I think why do I want to be swashy #438762....unti..Its a viscious cycle!I still miss my pve assassin and how he plays....<must fight the cycle>My worst fear is that a few more masters and 100 aa will make no difference. Please do not tell me the answer to that rhetorical question.

Saintedone

05-25-2007, 01:44 AM

I see really good points of view coming from all classes....The problem remains however there is a need for CA resist armor and AA's on a pvp server, for wizzies and casters.Look at the facts CA's hit more often and a lot faster - everyone knows the resist to spells is CRAZY, look at your fight logs!!!Wizzies and casters take a nose dive at level 50 when it comes to pvp, with every update/exspansion it becomes more and more unballanced to the point of obscurity at lvl 70.I DONT WANT NERFS - simpley if im gonna miss/resist 40-70% of the time because someone has gear to resist my spells then I should be able to avoid 40-70% of CA attacks with proper gear, not to mention the AA's that also give mele classes the ability to hit hit more often and do more damage with CA's.The next exspntion to level 80 will make casters completely obsolete outside group instances and raids because while our spells will undoubtedly do more damage they will most likely be on longer cast timers - while CA based classes will do even more damage with short cast timers, and newer better gear to resist our spells even more.

Microbolt

05-25-2007, 07:17 PM

<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem remains however there is a need for CA resist armor and AA's on a pvp server, for wizzies and casters.</blockquote>One big diffence with CA's though. If you as a caster get a spell say Ice Nova resisted, you get to try again 1 sec later. If an CA misses (same as resisted) we have to wait the ENTIRE recast. Which is usually 30-120sec.

Pumancat

05-25-2007, 09:37 PM

But how many other instant cast CAs do you have that can just as easily finish off a mage before he can cast another spell?And NO, when my spells get resisted, the recast timer is halved, not 1 sec, usually 10 - 25 seconds, and by half that time I'm dead.Nyarlath - 70 wizardVenekor server

dr4gonUK

05-25-2007, 11:04 PM

Every class is a token-dispenser solo. FACT.

deepruntramp

05-26-2007, 12:34 AM

except non-bard scouts. and druids.

D-DevilK

05-26-2007, 05:59 AM

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote>I posted a thread about one week ago titled "36 champ wiz vs 43 dread brigand".Read it if interested. Wizard is the brigand killer in T2-T5, no doubt about that. Yeah, I'm the wizard that kills red con scouts solo every day.I don't see the problem with a class being overpowered solo from levels 1-60, and then becoming underpowered solo in T7. Why is that a problem?Do you have a problem with how gimped Guardians are SOLO from levels 1-70?If not, why not? Don't you think that is a worse problem? I do. No one plays guardian, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TOKEN MACHINE IF THERE EVER WAS ONE. So what, you are a token machine in T7. Big woop. Go play a token machine through 7 tiers then come crying here.To come on here and get all huffy about your character's lack of relative strength solo to other T7 soloers sure seems PETTY, when some classes are [Removed for Content] solo throughout their entire lifetime. You had T2-T6. Hope you enjoyed it.</blockquote>Because if you don't lock for 999 years, you will spend the MUCH larger portion of your time in T7. By your logic, Rangers should be completely [Removed for Content] in T7. Oh wait--

HerbertWalker

05-26-2007, 08:48 AM

Of course I know that. But I killed the universal argument put forth in this thread by describing where it fails.All it takes to defeat a universal argument like this thread - "the class is dead", is to demonstrate one example where the argument is untrue. I have done so with a lot more than one example, and no one has a counter. Therefore, the universal statement must not be true. (It needs to be edited accordingly so that it is true. Perhaps something like "T7 wizards - the death of 10 levels of a class. Oh and guardians have been dead for a year, but who cares lets talk wizards."I ignore the entire T7 conversation, because it very well may be correct what is being said here. I don't know nor care. I learned that my choice to stay locked is a good one for me. I want to kill thousands of people solo with a wizard and be an in-your-face surprise to all I come across, and I learned that it would be near impossible to do so without locking.It's hardly the death of a class if there are hundreds of locked wizards running around. I would argue that the guardian and cleric classes died a year ago, if you want to have that discussion - which would be a way more legitimate debate to have imo.

D-DevilK

05-26-2007, 08:56 AM

Firstly, thousands is a terrible exaggeration. Second, my Wizard is eternally locked at 44. Whereas my Warlock is 70, so I can relate to this thread, and what you are saying. But you must understand, alot of people like to experience the high-end content, wear gear with particle effects, kill unholy massive raid bosses, see the arguably most creative zones in the game, feel challenged. But the T7 Sorcerer community is being penalised for experiencing this, as they cannot indulge in Solo PvP effectively. You didn't nullify the "Universal Argument". It doesn't fail. Those 10 levels of this class are in GENERAL the most time spent playing, as after 70 you cannot go any higher. If there were infinite levels, then you would be making sense, but your not. I'm not going to try and pull a bad analogy out of my [Removed for Content] to justify my argument, for it needs no justification. Templars and Inquisitors can self heal, and do very nice DPS and solo PvP effectively, with their new AA lines. Guardians can-- to some extent, solo PvP, but they have to be in very good gear. With a wizard, no matter how good our gear is, no matter how many masters we have, no matter how [Removed for Content] we are over our AA's, no matter how many hours, days, and years, you look at ACT to try and make the "ultimate strat", People can still resist up to 80% of your damage, and that, is ridiculous. (I've seen a coercer with 70% Heat resist, self buffed, that is ludicrous.) Either give us a massive heat and cold debuff, or, fix resists. The latter would be smarter.

HerbertWalker

05-26-2007, 09:18 AM

We can disagree.You do not agree with my take that 60 levels of solo uberness is an acceptable tradeoff for T7 solo gimpness.You do not agree that in T7 alone, being uber in a group/raid is an acceptable tradeoff for being [Removed for Content] solo.We disagree probably because I value T1-T6 a lot more than you do, it sounds like. I value the lower levels more because I already have a T7 character to experience that content. I accept the fact that my wizard will never reach T7 - I don't want him to level up. I want a more rich T3-T5 experience, which I am getting since I locked at 18 and am currently 38 (yes tons of AA of course.) Thousands of kills is not an exaggeration at all. I will get the kills, mostly solo, and with a good healthy amount of solo red con brigand kills - something that people here believe to be impossible because they are ill-informed and grew out of these tiers back when there were no uber battlemages out there.

Splintered

05-26-2007, 11:55 AM

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote>Does it not upset you that you are a class that is capable of dishing out (in pvp mind you) 3-4k dmg every thirty seconds to a single target and 5500 -7500 dmg to three targets and your crying that it gets resisted half the time? That is INSAINE dps and if they "fixed" what you wanted them to, the wizard class would surpass every class in the game 10 fold!!!If you want to see what playing a wizard would be like with the fixes you want, go to the Arena and duel someone... No seriously, go and try it. Find someone who can beat you! I dare you.What casting skills have you + stats for? Your getting resisted, great. You do know you yourself can do something about it right?....</blockquote> Your not lvl 70, so how can you know? A lvl 70 ranger friend of mine can successfully two shotted a lvl 70 bruiser who was all fabled and had self buffed 8800 hp's. Do you know what its like trying to cast a 4 or 5 second spell in pvp!?

Pumancat

05-26-2007, 10:36 PM

Virii wrote - This game was not designed for ever class to be able to beat every class. No it wasn't. It was obviously designed for scouts to be the number one uber class period. And all the points you've been making are pretty moot seeing as you're the second rung class for both all PVP and scouts.The most successful and only uber PVP wizard I ever met was Riddicks, and I still don't believe he solo'd as much as he claims to have, no offence to him.While I was leveling up, it was never " take out the healer first", it was the clothie first, and insta killed by groups of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 or 4 scouts. I remember doing raids at QG and all or most defenders were zone hugging scouts, who would pop into zone, quick shot the clothies and zone back (dishonorably of course).I have a lvl 14, and all the Qs I see in CL are scout/druid combos. I have a mid 50s and all I see in SS are scout/druid combos, or scout groups with a fury for the cheetah. Most times I group and run into PVP, all they are are scouts 3 shotting me in as many seconds while my group tries to find where the attacks are coming from.We DON'T get a 35% increase to attack speed, we DON'T get a 65% in combat run speed, we DON'T get a 7 - 9k resistance to CAs as scouts and some fighter classes do, we DON'T get 5 - 7 attacks in less seconds, the list can go on with tracking, longer range, terrein abilities, movement while casting,,,etc.The diminishing return patch was a complete bust for all classes and was changed back within a week in a ninja patch. And ALL patches, expansions, quick fixes were done making the scout class (Q classes especially) more advantaged while the mage classes (especially wizards) more gimped to the scout classes.Plain and simple any scout on this or any other thread claiming that wizards or mages in general are uber, and they have any kind of hard time beating any, are either liars or complete noobs, and I'm sick of hearing the BS about scouts being no better than any other class, when all the numbers and a year's worth of playing a wizard produce the opposite FACT.Nyarlath - 70 wizard

Saintedone

05-27-2007, 02:58 AM

Were are the Devs on this subject?THEY HAVE TO KNOW whats going on with the casters vrs CA's - Anyone know?

Pumancat

05-27-2007, 09:29 PM

They're too busy playing their rangers and swashies.

Saintedone

05-28-2007, 04:04 AM

Doh!!

brambo2

05-29-2007, 02:31 PM

dude..one thing, your spells are adp 3..get masterssecond..WIZZIES CAN ONE SHOT PEOPLETrue, heat and cold are two of the highest resisted magical spellsbut IF you hit them, they are screwedso stop complaining you whiny baby

Microbolt

05-29-2007, 04:53 PM

<cite>Pumancat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Virii wrote - This game was not designed for ever class to be able to beat every class. No it wasn't. It was obviously designed for scouts to be the number one uber class period. And all the points you've been making are pretty moot seeing as you're the second rung class for both all PVP and scouts.</blockquote>I also play a wizard, dirge, templar, and conj. Have no problem on any of them. Just because my sig shows my main as a ranger doesn't mean its the only thing I play :) Also, I've had plenty of wizards kill my ranger. L2P your class :)

Microbolt

05-29-2007, 04:54 PM

<cite>brambo2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>dude..one thing, your spells are adp 3..get masterssecond..WIZZIES CAN ONE SHOT PEOPLETrue, heat and cold are two of the highest resisted magical spellsbut IF you hit them, they are screwedso stop complaining you whiny baby</blockquote> Just force crit on Ice Nova... FTW =D

Microbolt

05-29-2007, 04:57 PM

<cite>Pumancat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Plain and simple any scout on this or any other thread claiming that wizards or mages in general are uber, and they have any kind of hard time beating any, are either liars or complete noobs, and I'm sick of hearing the BS about scouts being no better than any other class, when all the numbers and a year's worth of playing a wizard produce the opposite FACT.Nyarlath - 70 wizard</blockquote>Get one to 70 and see if you have same opinion

Microbolt

05-29-2007, 05:00 PM

<cite>Splintered wrote:</cite><blockquote> Your not lvl 70, so how can you know? A lvl 70 ranger friend of mine can successfully two shotted a lvl 70 bruiser who was all fabled and had self buffed 8800 hp's. Do you know what its like trying to cast a 4 or 5 second spell in pvp!? </blockquote> That's some lucky crits/poison procs there. That is not typical. Thats like trying to compare how awesome a wizard is because they can one/two shot with ice nova/fusion. There is alot more to it than just that.

Ozgood

05-29-2007, 06:32 PM

I know wizards are extreme burst damage classes, but wouldn't giving them an AA change from Manaburn, that is now capped in PvP to like something called Sorceror's will, with unresistable damage spells make more sense?For instance; while active all damage spells will do 30% of the original value, cast 30% quicker, cost 30% more power and will be unresistable.Make it like a energy vortex type AA.Anyways, instead of making classes rely on one shotting people, they need to focus on more skills that will give them a chance to fight.IMHO.

Microbolt

05-29-2007, 06:59 PM

Ozgood@Vox wrote: <blockquote>I know wizards are extreme burst damage classes, but wouldn't giving them an AA change from Manaburn, that is now capped in PvP to like something called Sorceror's will, with unresistable damage spells make more sense?For instance; while active all damage spells will do 30% of the original value, cast 30% quicker, cost 30% more power and will be unresistable.Make it like a energy vortex type AA.Anyways, instead of making classes rely on one shotting people, they need to focus on more skills that will give them a chance to fight.IMHO.</blockquote> Think that would be a good change. I think every wizard would like that. Has to be agrovating always hearing the resist sound so much.

Norrsken

05-30-2007, 04:47 AM

Ozgood@Vox wrote: <blockquote>I know wizards are extreme burst damage classes, but wouldn't giving them an AA change from Manaburn, that is now capped in PvP to like something called Sorceror's will, with unresistable damage spells make more sense?For instance; while active all damage spells will do 30% of the original value, cast 30% quicker, cost 30% more power and will be unresistable.Make it like a energy vortex type AA.Anyways, instead of making classes rely on one shotting people, they need to focus on more skills that will give them a chance to fight.IMHO.</blockquote>Dont they already have one like that? half the casting, more damage and shortened reuse. Think its called focused casting. And o, yeah, immune to interrupts.

Izzypop

06-02-2007, 05:12 AM

I play a guardian. When wizzies start to have it half as rough as guards in solo pvp I'll feel bad for you. Until then deal with it. Wizzies are much needed group and raiding class. Yes your die easy solo your a glass cannon, deal with it. Only a few select classes can solo pvp well and they are all overpopulated. Wizzies are one of the best classes in a small group. Stop trying to PvP when solo. You are level 70 and know better.

Bawang

06-03-2007, 04:08 AM

<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote> I play a guardian. When wizzies start to have it half as rough as guards in solo pvp I'll feel bad for you. Until then deal with it. Wizzies are much needed group and raiding class. Yes your die easy solo your a glass cannon, deal with it. Only a few select classes can solo pvp well and they are all overpopulated. Wizzies are one of the best classes in a small group. Stop trying to PvP when solo. You are level 70 and know better.</blockquote> LoL you're being ridiculous <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. A guardian KNOWS he's pathetic at DPS. No disappointment there when he can't do damage. But at least you can take a hit. The problem with casters is that we can't take a hit, and we can't do damage either. No, we're in a much worse situation than guardians by far.

shagr1414

06-04-2007, 07:29 PM

<cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote>To be honest lately my Master 1 Fusion gets resisted as much as it hits. I only use it spamming cloud platforms simply because its A - 5 sec cast timerB - close in spell 10-15 feet in game ( you can see it coming and get outta the way ) C - recast timer is almost 3 mins between castIn a perfect world (for a wizzy) it would hit 3 targets in range and 1 shot um, but my average damage PVP with fusion is between 5500-7k max with a nice knockback (cloud platform). Most T7 classes have more than 5500 HP's going into any fight so my best bet with my ultimate spell is that i hit someone coming into a cloud platform and take down more than 50% of there health and hope they cant evac or glide to a chain and die and then maby I get a token before the rest of his group comes in and wacks me.ROOTS dont stick and even if they do its for around 5 secs Next big spell Ice Nova A - 4 sec cast time - very nice range spellB - if it lands 3k- 4k damage with a knockback in pvp highly resistedC - 30 sec recast We have some nice debuffes and stuns but they are also cold based and highly resistableMy point in this thread is to show our comunity that our wizzard class is becoming nerft into a raid only class with no hope of good fights with anyone other than other wizzards - come now you didnt start playing on a pvp server and not want a good fight from a wizzard - no matter what class you are fighter priest scout even other mages.Oh did I fail to mention my Focus (how we cast spells in combat) is over 400 yet time in and time out almost any Combat Art that lands will interupt our spells.Next were looking forward to a great new exspansoin ROK with all new gear that will undoubtedly make it even harder for a wizz to hit with any kind of consistancy in PVP.Lastly, my wish here isnt to cry nerf and wallow a way in sorrow its that every time some class gets nerft it hurts every other class out there in the game - now if you want a solution get the devs to create real mage PVP gear and get some more gear out there that resist COMBAT ARTS and bring some balance back!!Forgot to answer the question posted on how many spells at lvl 70 = 2-5 would be a good average base to look at.</blockquote> You'll find you're interrupted because the CA's that people with any braincells choose to use on a caster will be interrupts/stuns/stifles - most CA's won't stop you casting, it's just your opponents (correct) choice of them.And doing 5500-7000 PVP damage in PVP will flat out kill any other mage, most druids and a good portion of scouts. What it doesn't kill will start crapping their pants and running in the opposite way from you. No fighter except a brawler and possibly a berserker is going to even dent you. Furies, well we won't go there, everyone wants them to stop the pre-rege+vortex+pact combo. Rogue? Join the club, they're the anti-caster - pretty much anti-everything.But you have a 550 point regenerating ward in magi's shielding, another one in the KOS trees, and Manashield. Manashield alone can give you near 15K effective hitpoints- and with a possible 35% mitigation and 40% avoidance being very easily achievable I don't see you have anything to worry about.Yes it's annoying getting hit from behind with a decap - try playing a conjurer where our strongest nuke is about 900 PVP damage and agros everything around us. Oh the pets are sweet yes, but you have to count on getting the snare off and running around like a hopeless chicken while your pet tries to kill them.</blockquote>But the on the other hand it is ok for a ranger to do almost 9k in less than 2 seconds with a mage having almost zero to CA resists? Lets not forget how overpowered scouts can also be. but when we try to explain how it works, all scouts do is whine saying that mages would be way too powerful IF the devs aligned the abilites correctly.

shagr1414

06-04-2007, 07:32 PM

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizards are alive, well, and pwning all over faces like they're original Pollock's.But T7 is broken for pvp.. accept it. </blockquote>Coming from the master of lvl locking under lvl 70....[Removed for Content] and get a lvl 70 char then you can speak otherwise your uneducated via experiance in T7.

HerbertWalker

06-04-2007, 07:37 PM

Change the thread title then, if you are limiting the conversation and complaints to T7 only.My wiz kills red cons of everything (except druids.)

shagr1414

06-04-2007, 07:39 PM

<cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite><blockquote>40% avoidance is nothing, just forget about it, 9 out of 10 combat arts would still hit you.Remember that it's a 40% chance to avoid attack same level opponent w/out any attack skill buffs. While all melee fighers will PVP in offensive stance, which adds 10+ levels as for attack skills.Mitigation is all that matters for survivability.</blockquote>Excellent point, also look at resists....say u got 5k in all, thats is average about 60% resists to one given spell type....yet we see nothing but 100% resists. If it says 60% shouldnt we at least see a partial hit? we don't we see a flashy RESIST sign pop over heads most times. It makes no sense how they coded the resists from mages. Someone with 40% resists is supposed to simply as its stated (if you hover your cursor over the number in the persona window) should ABSORB 40% of the dmg not fully 100% not take any dmg. Yet it doesnt work the way it says.

Aeralik

06-04-2007, 07:48 PM

The higher levels should see an improvement in the resist rate of spells with the next updates balance changes. If you haven't yet, use /testcopy to copy your character to Test PvP so that you are copied before the changes go to test. Once the changes are on test feel free to feedback how resists are and any otherfeedback you might want to give on the upcoming changes.

Groma

06-04-2007, 08:00 PM

Music to my ears man, this made my month.

Saintedone

06-06-2007, 03:26 AM

I like the diffrent views all around here.. I am a Lvl 70 wizz and I know my char, heres the problemEVERY NERF SO FAR HAS BEEN AIMED RIGHT AT THE CASTER CLASSES NerfedRootsEvacsDamageAdded SUPER RESISTABILITY Every exspansion/update with armor has added even more between the nerf to our damage and the resistability to our spells weve been shamed. I havent been logging in except to raid or craft and Im sure I'll get bored with that soon enough.Look at my account I've been around since beta - left the game for a bit because it got boring on the normal servers - came back for PVP leveled up a toon I love to play and had my toon messed up by developers who dont care to make the best MMO out there have the best PVP out there. You see the list of stuff out there Lvl lockers (while very fun) prevent new players from enjoying the game, we all know it.No real CA resistability gear gives CA based classes an entirely HUGE advantage over other classes in PVP (over T5)AA and PVP gear are not made for PVP there made for PVE.I can go on but most of us realist already know the issues and so do the devs, until they decide to take a serious look at PVP and the game the servers will loose more pop and the only players out there will be twink out lvl locked scouts.

HerbertWalker

06-06-2007, 11:08 PM

You forgot twinked out level locked wizards - the bane to any twinked out level lockled scout. Now perhaps you are starting to understand why it's so fun to be me. Lots of easy targets that think they are super duper awesome.

Saintedone

06-07-2007, 05:15 AM

THANK YOU CHRIS for your responce to my thread, it shows...A - your here B- you care C- you want a great gameIm with Groman I can almost hear the music, lets hope /crosses fingers and logs in...

shagr1414

06-07-2007, 02:16 PM

Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote>IM not looking for a gandalf wizzard class in the game unless its an NPC we can raid for some AA and loot, lol...My plee to the devs isnt to make wizzies all UBER and Gandalfish, its to add drops/quest/adorns/AA's on PVP servers that benifit casters Vrs CA's and at the same time bring more balance to the game. </blockquote> na i didn´t mean you want to be gandalf but all you mages would be if there was no resist. imo. i could live even with that. hell i don´t care if a solo swash engarde/inspiration wtfpwnz me <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> there will allways be a class of the month <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but from my experience - i really like to have a wizard in my group because a mage can be ultimative pain in group vs group pvp. to the above poster : atm it is swash > brig - big times. swash don´t even need a stun lock to tear through anything when shorttimes are up but that is totally offtopic so forget it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i just wanted you to imagine how it can turn out if they give the wizard class a significant enhancement...</blockquote>Resists are broken, we're not calling for a completely unresistable environment. Look at how resists are supposed to work. If you have 5k resist in lets say Fire. That estimates around 60% of the spell will be absorbed. Yet this is not what happens. A mage casts the fire nuke and we see a 100% resist, not the 60% its stating. Last I checked if a spell simply normally does 100 points of dmg and you have a 60% resist rate against it, you will take 40% or 40 points of dmg, not zero.

shagr1414

06-07-2007, 02:25 PM

<cite>Skeptycal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are the wizards dead yet so we can quit seeing this thread pop up =)Try playing a necro in pvp if you think wizards are hard. You'll have NO wards or manashields and your highest nuke of all time will be 3-4k on a crit with a perfect group.Go ahead ... try that first then come say wizards cant kill anyone =P</blockquote>Rofl as much as I hated Bel Vaka, I can 100% agree with Quest here....You also forgot no evac, or port abilities. No 1 shot "I win" attack except maybe you can claim Lifeburn as a huge hit but that 60% max of a players health while we go down to 1 hp. Not to mention the spell itself is broken cause it says you are immune for the duratio of the spell yet I've died to many scouts while the spell was effective. Hell the thing is a disease based attack that with the pooched resists we see get's resisted 100% on many encounters rendering it useless. People claim our pets rule....Pfft...Tank pets taunt is turned off in PVP, I've casted master 1 undead tide, master 1 blighted horde, and master 1 awaken grave on healers and other mages and they don't even slightly interupt anyone, even with a Nightshade slicing away at them. Caster pet is fairly useable but also runs intot he same resist trouble we see on our actual characters. Needless to say we also have to deal with being dropped to dead in less than 2-4 seconds by most other classes, so nothing we even attempt matters much anyways.

Jayingsoo

06-07-2007, 05:47 PM

All masters. 457 disruption (2 points above cap). Maxed out AA's for ALL cold spells. STR/STA spec'd with both catalyst and Manashield. Glacial Wind - Target Encounter AE: Might hit one person in a group of 6. 4 second cast. Electryfing Flash - Target Encounter AE: Might hit one person in a group of 6. 2 second cast. Ice Nova: Single Target DD: Resisted more than half the time. hits between 2-4k. 4 second cast. Ball of Lava: Single Target DD: Resisted more than half the time. 1-2k if lands. 3 second cast. Fusion: Cone AE, Maximum 3 targets: Resisted so much it makes me sick. 2-5k. 5 second cast. (Has hit for 9k on bots tho) Firestorm: Blue AE, Maximum 8 targets: lol...... 3 second cast. 1k for me if it hits. ALL of this can be interrupted. When somebody sees a wizard.. the ONLY thought going through their head should be "Gee.. I wonder who he's dropping." Don't even get me started on warlocks. A class that can obliterate a full group by themself. We can't even threaten a single target. Doing 4k on Ice Nova is cool... but you forget we can't follow up with it. Ball of Lava with Ice Nova can in fact kill someone. But since I've never pulled both off one after the other, the heals go off and wards go up before I can finish someone off. I read to about page 2 and then skipped here just to put my 2 cents in. I've been playing for a year now on this server, with this character, and yes T7 is so broken it's convincing just to start another character. But I know SoE pays attention to these things and will look at it. Wizards are the Assassins of magic damage. Sure assassins have 0.5-1 second cast times. Thats fine. But if we're going to spend 75% of our time standing still being stupid and 25% of our time repositioning... please... make our [Removed for Content] land. and for decent amounts, too. I want to see disgusting chunks of HP fall off of my target. Not a fuggin' 2k ice nova. Garbage system. And for those of you that defend against wizards... please try to understand this. Shoot I'll let you play Willthik for a day. You'll take me down to Hunter even after practicing in instances for a few hours. Then you'll feel bad for us. But as we wait, we hope for something to better us. Gogo Wizards and just keep going. We'll get the help we deserve. Just need a bit longer.

Pumancat

06-13-2007, 01:50 AM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>The higher levels should see an improvement in the resist rate of spells with the next updates balance changes. If you haven't yet, use /testcopy to copy your character to Test PvP so that you are copied before the changes go to test. Once the changes are on test feel free to feedback how resists are and any otherfeedback you might want to give on the upcoming changes. </blockquote> improvement in the resist rates of spells? What about resist rates of CAs?Sorry Aeralik, but I don't want to hear about improvements on resists. Mages NEED an improvement on mit vs CAs. THAT'S where the imbalance is! Melee classes have had enough IMPROVEMENTS on their resists rates of spells.I get shot by a ranger and look at my health bar and see 7 different types of dmg and effects on me. I try to cast ONE spell in the same time and IF it lands I see ONE magic effect symbol on their name. I see my combat log with 3-5 different attacks dropping me in less than 4 seconds, while I see my one chance of hitting him, with my one spell that can do the same amount of dmg, being 100% resisted.You've seen all the proof that we can show you ( GMs and devs). We've explained it in as many ways as we can articulate. And still you all deny that there's any imbalance between melee and mage classes. This thread and obviously Mages vs melee have become a dead horse to real PVP devs and GMs. Typical SoE with dealing with the REAL issues, IGNORE IT, and IT WILL GO AWAY.Nyarlath - 70 wizardVenekor server

Pumancat

06-13-2007, 02:44 AM

Reduced the damage of Fusion and Ice CometSorcerer<ul><li>Starter - Summon Familiar: The type of familiar is no longer determined by weapon; Instead it is determined by casting a different ability. </li><li>Stamina 2 - Static Shield: Removed first rank parry bonus, but no longer requires a symbol. </li><li>Stamina 3 - Battlemage Armor: Increased physical mitigation bonus. </li><li>Stamina 4 - Battlemage's Fervor: Also increases Subjugation and Ordination skill. </li><li>Stamina 5 - Manashield: Improved damage to mana consumed ratio from 1:1 to 2:1. </li><li>Wisdom 2 - Freehand Sorcery: No longer requires no weapon equipped, but reduced bonus to begin at 10% at rank 1. However now it stacks with Brainstorm and other spell damage increase achievements. </li><li>Wisdom 3 - Ward of Sages: No longer requires no weapon equipped. Only protects against non-physical damage. </li><li>Wisdom 4 - Brainstorm: No longer requires no weapon equipped, but reduced bonus to 0.5% per rank. However now it stacks with Freehand Sorcery and other spell damage increase achievements. </li><li>Wisdom 5 - Sagacity: Effect stacks with other achievements that reduce power cost. </li><li>Intelligence 2 - Confounding Staff: Renamed Confounding: Also added ranged distance of 35 meters to attack using your weapon. </li><li>Intelligence 4 - Kinetic Avoidance: Hate percent reduction improved from 1.25% to 2%. </li><li>Intelligence 5 - Concussive Blast: Spell is now an area effect that instantly drops hate position instead of adding a hate reduction proc.</li></ul>Wisdom 3 - So now our best defence vs CAs has become defence against NON physical damage only.Nyarlath

Saintedone

06-14-2007, 04:44 AM

Are the devs even looking at CA resist gear for pvp server mages?Does anyone know??I see they are improving our manna shield in pvp NICE (thank you devs) - will effect still land through the mana shield??I have to look at a combat log but i seem to remember effects like interupt and stun CA's keeping me from casting while mana shield is up?If thats the case then all we have is a longer death - still have the issues of resist becasue the CA classes are just gonna boost there resist that much more maby choose fire or cold but heck half the resist gear out there has both fire and cold resist on each piece anyway.WE NEED CA RESIST GEAR please - I still have hope - they are looking at the class at least and any improvement is appreciated by us wizzies.

Pumancat

06-19-2007, 02:09 AM

your Magi Shielding absorbs 363 points of damage from being done to yourself.You have entered into combat by using the ward, Ward of Sages on 1.0 while fighting Ranger Y ( not writing his name)Your Ward of Sages absorbs 264 points of damage from being done to yourselfYou are critically hit by Veiled Fire for 1127You are hit by Storm Arrow for 70You are critically hit by Quick Shot for 371Ranger Y hits you for 1575You resist Ranger Y Ranger Y's Rain of Arrows critically hits you for 2382Ranger Y has killed youAll I heard was thunk, thunk, in the time it takes for a person to say it, I was deadThis is NOT pvp. This is NOT balance. I'm lvl 70 and full EOF legendary Al'kabor's gear with high resist items. All my resists are over 5k.Can a Dev or GM please try to explain why I died before I could even try to click one of my spell icons and still think there's nothing wrong ? Can a Dev or GM try to explain why our ward is still bugged and puts us into combat?Oh well, guess I'm retired till someone with some kind of sense figures out where the REAL problems with mages in PVP are.OH WAIT! there are no problems with mages, they're overpowered with their nukes! Guess you have to nerf them so they can't do big damage anymore.Good night EQ2, and FU ranger Devs and GMsNyarlath - 70 wizard (retired, waiting to find the next monster class so I can PVP)Venekor server