Assassin AA question

[seigwahrheit]

I know i could have put this on the AA page but i figured you guys would know more... Someone said that its possible to configure your EoF endlines to get 3 endline abilities, i've looked into it and the trees dont really crossover theyre one or the other, but maybe im just doin it wrong. Please enlighten me.

[seigwahrheit]

HELP ADELPHI!!! PLEASE

[-=Hoss=-]

I misundersood that post too.  What they said was they could get Repeated stabbing, Excessive bleeding, and the hemotoxin upgrade, with is just the second ability in that line.  I originally thought they'd said they got EB, RS and frontload. 

[seigwahrheit]

Oh... figured i might be able to upgrade my poor [Removed for Content] attempt at raid DPS... My raid leaders on at me all the time to respec my AA but I refuse to change my pvp setup. I have to work my [Removed for Content] off to get top 5 in the parse. Aaah well looks like a migraine every raid it is then.

[Brimestar]

<p>Depending on who you are up against, it should still be possible to be Top 5 for DPS and maintain a decent pvp AA setup...I did however recently give up STA for the INT line recently...First time I went down the int line...Not bad so far, but i do miss my extra 500+ HP</p>

[Siclone]

<p>to answer your question.</p><p>you can't get 3 end abilities, cause you need to spend 20 points in each to get the last one and you only get 50 points to spend.</p><p> I understand your raid leaders frustration.  Predators bring nothing to a raid, but dps and their dps can be matched by a handful off other classes, with much more to offer.  Not to mention they are one of the worst solo and pvp classes too.</p><p>I look at assassin's as a filler class, need DPS and already got the classes you need that is where assassins come in, and yea you have to work hard for the DPS.</p><p>I am hoping there will be major changes on how preadtors are looked at with the RoK.  They just dont work and need an overhaul.  There is no reaons for preadtors in the game ATM with Rouges avaiable.  </p><p> I think they need to come up with a predator only line of abilities or jut let us betray to a rouge if we wish.  </p>

[Darlordofthesith8969]

<cite>Siclone wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>I am hoping there will be major changes on how preadtors are looked at with the RoK.  They just dont work and need an overhaul.  There is no reaons for preadtors in the game ATM with Rouges avaiable.   </p></blockquote> <p>When I first started playing eq2 a couple of years back Assassins rocked they out dps all classes no matter what. What changed that was the pvp rule set nothing could come close to a solo assassin and survive, then SOE in their wisdom ( and lots of whining from Q's ) nerfed the assassin class to being one of the worst solo characters. I doubt  with the new expansion RoK that this will change, unfortunately a class that ruled the roost in dps without the need of legendary or fabled gear will be not changed and will stay nerfed. </p>

[Shikamaru]

<cite>seigwahrheit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh... figured i might be able to upgrade my poor [I cannot control my vocabulary] attempt at raid DPS... My raid leaders on at me all the time to respec my AA but I refuse to change my pvp setup. I have to work my [I cannot control my vocabulary] off to get top 5 in the parse. Aaah well looks like a migraine every raid it is then. </blockquote> Stamina spec is just a crutch that assassins use who can't PvP with the intelligence spec <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Come on Adelphi, you can raid AND PvP, can't you?

[Vydar]

I'm always top 3 in our guild raids with my setup. Up the Str line to the end, looks like... 4-4-6-8 (Blademaster) Up the Int line looks like... 4-4-6-8 (Nightshade) This gives you faster reuse timer and more damage on Decap and I think Killing Blade, may be wrong on Killing Blade.  Been so long that I forget if its timer is longer lol. So now you get increased melee crit and spell crit (spell crit= procs and poisons) = much more DPS over raid fights (since they run for a few minutes at a time.)  This means that even when you have to use Vit Breach or Mental Breach instead of Caustic, you still get an ok damage output.  Also, the Nightshade poison drops 300-600 on average damage with a decent amount of int every 8 seconds for 48 seconds, meaning 6 times, so roughly 3k extra damage.  I've seen it crit up to 900 damage, and with the bonus to spell crit... you get the point.  In the Assassin tree, go with Bleed and go with Stabbing.  This means you can string your attacks together faster (important for PvP) and all your tricks are upgraded (important for PvP, stifle and roots important for raids).  Bleed increases all your damage on  your bleed attacks, as well as reducing the target HP (the HP reduction doesn't show up in parse unfortunately).  ALWAYS use Caustic.  It = more damage, because it procs about 5x a minute rather than hemotoxin which procs like twice.  Caustic is much more damage, and if you're lucky enough to have a Dirge with Luck of the Dirge buff on, all your procs/poisons hit more often.  Other than that, you just have to know when/how to use your CA's and temp buffs.  When to use ranged, when to use melee, etc.  Experiment with your ca's in what order.  Once you get the hang of it, you should always be top 5.  In our guild, it's usually Famine first, either me or a Necro second, then me or a Necro third lol.

[-=Hoss=-]

For the record, if you put 1 point into the hemotoxin upgrade you'll get almost twice as much damage from hemo than caustic.  I'm pretty sure I've only got 1 point in, possibly 2.  -h

[Shikamaru]

Vydar@Vox wrote: <blockquote>I'm always top 3 in our guild raids with my setup. Up the Str line to the end, looks like... 4-4-6-8 (Blademaster) Up the Int line looks like... 4-4-6-8 (Nightshade) This gives you faster reuse timer and more damage on Decap and I think Killing Blade, may be wrong on Killing Blade.  Been so long that I forget if its timer is longer lol. So now you get increased melee crit and spell crit (spell crit= procs and poisons) = much more DPS over raid fights (since they run for a few minutes at a time.)  This means that even when you have to use Vit Breach or Mental Breach instead of Caustic, you still get an ok damage output.  Also, the Nightshade poison drops 300-600 on average damage with a decent amount of int every 8 seconds for 48 seconds, meaning 6 times, so roughly 3k extra damage.  I've seen it crit up to 900 damage, and with the bonus to spell crit... you get the point.  In the Assassin tree, go with Bleed and go with Stabbing.  This means you can string your attacks together faster (important for PvP) and all your tricks are upgraded (important for PvP, stifle and roots important for raids).  Bleed increases all your damage on  your bleed attacks, as well as reducing the target HP (the HP reduction doesn't show up in parse unfortunately).  ALWAYS use Caustic.  It = more damage, because it procs about 5x a minute rather than hemotoxin which procs like twice.  Caustic is much more damage, and if you're lucky enough to have a Dirge with Luck of the Dirge buff on, all your procs/poisons hit more often.  Other than that, you just have to know when/how to use your CA's and temp buffs.  When to use ranged, when to use melee, etc.  Experiment with your ca's in what order.  Once you get the hang of it, you should always be top 5.  In our guild, it's usually Famine first, either me or a Necro second, then me or a Necro third lol. </blockquote> Bleeding line is worthless, and I have no clue where you got the idea that caustic is better than hemotoxin after you get the AA points into it. Getaway is probably one of the best EoF AAs you can get for a PvP assassin that also raids, bleeding line hardly adds any damage and you are wasting tons of AA points if you even decide to go down that line. Tricks and Physicality are the two lines you should get if you are a raid/pvp assassin

[seigwahrheit]

Naah done a few tweeks now and im regularly the raid one DPS; had a bit of a think about it. As for the PvP crutch with 'STA' line; its not so much of a crutch as the INT endline root and runoff tactics you employ; thats just weasely. At least you can see me when you die. STA ensures im gonna last longer in a fight its the exact opposite of crutch as im not trying to make a Gank class. Well thats the way i see it.

[Brimestar]

<p>/nod</p><p>STA was fun to play cos I'd outlast the guy I would fight solo, and in grps, it just meant I'd live longer for a healer to get to me...And it was nice to see if I can have move HP than the tanks....11k HPs were nice in the right grp set up.</p><p> For the EOF AAs, I personally thought tricks was a waste, I went down physicallity and some of the abilities were nice, but Getaway got nerfed prior to what it once was, and is a waste imo.</p>

[Malicorp]

<p>It really will be impossible for you to "eat your cake and have it too" in this case. There simply is nothing in the EoF lines that can rectify the DPS damage done by chosing the Sta Line over the Int Line. Whilest I will concede that the Sta line is better for solo PvP [as I've witnessed in our 1v1s], you'll simply never see the DPS numbers that an Str/Int Assassin can do in a raid or even group or greater PvP setting. You certainly can improve your DPS to a respectable level with a few decent EoF AA enhancements and better raid groups & ability comboing.</p><p>Gear also plays a significant role as Shax has shown me in many a parse <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Shikamaru]

<cite>seigwahrheit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Naah done a few tweeks now and im regularly the raid one DPS; had a bit of a think about it. As for the PvP crutch with 'STA' line; its not so much of a crutch as the INT endline root and runoff tactics you employ; thats just weasely. At least you can see me when you die. STA ensures im gonna last longer in a fight its the exact opposite of crutch as im not trying to make a Gank class. Well thats the way i see it. </blockquote> You are playing the wrong class if you're trying to make your class not a "gank" class. You can also pull a Queklain and go swashbuckler. Face it Malicor, it isn't all about the gear, you have to chock some of it up to skill my dear buddy. Tricks is possibly the best PvP AAs you can get, with the root and stifle, Getaway is still one of the best AAs with Stabbing because of the fact it's an incombat stealth, plus you get the run speed, and it's cool for raids when you know a AoE is coming up.

[Tass]

<p>Stamina is a crutch....</p><p>Agility....you're not a ranger.</p><p>Either of those would be nice to have but if you want to raid you need str and int lines.  Assassin AAs suck....Yes the pvp ones are nice to have if you aren't raid spec'd wish I still had my points in root can't afford it. I don't even have the bottom tier line (bleeding, stabbing, ...etc).  Yes repeated stabbing is nice in pvp in a raid you miss autoattacks using it and getaway would be nice without our bard's blade dance in a raid.  Bottom line though except for the physicality buffs and hemotoxin the others really make no huge impact on your parse.  Bleeding's 1% IIRC debuff on raid mobs HP isn't alot if you think about it.  I had it have noticed no difference in parse although some say it wont show in parse.  I would like to show hard numbers cause I still am not satisfied with the way i have the assassin line spec'd.  Its hard to make up your mind and test it out with the 10 gp, 1 pp, 10 pp respecs every 30 days [Removed for Content].  But generally unless some necro pulls the mob away from tank and having to chase it, someone turns it and and too tired to find back of mob, or am distracted and not even putting much effort into it......I'm usally #1 or #2 on parse.  Only one that may beat me in certain situations is necro or another assassin.  Personally get outparsed cause Through up exacting or honed reflexes late in fight instead at beginning which basicly means I need to get into habit of following the same routine more.  Kaix is only necro that I've ever seen that does an awesome 2300+ parse constantly but at the same time he pulls aggro alot.  I twinge when I see a necro outparse me but who cares it means the encounter is going down faster.   Spec however you want according to your playstyle.....however, newb assassins (not saying you are one) that show in raids makes our class look bad make raid leaders not want us in a raid tbh.  Personally I wouldn't allow you in the raid except to fill a spot if your not spec'd to do high dps IMO.</p>

[Malicorp]

<cite>Shikamaru wrote:</cite><blockquote> Face it Malicor, it isn't all about the gear, you have to chock some of it up to skill my dear buddy. </blockquote> Maybe 10% experience, 90% gear. Player skill, however, is not the issue. Anyone who can not get over their uberleetness enough to get some freaking adornments on their relatively good gear is leaving themselves very open to be caught and surpassed.

[Shikamaru]

I don't think it's the fact of "uberleetness" rather than "uberlazynessdontcareneoughness"

[Shikamaru]

Tass@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Stamina is a crutch....</p><p>Agility....you're not a ranger.</p><p>Either of those would be nice to have but if you want to raid you need str and int lines.  Assassin AAs suck....Yes the pvp ones are nice to have if you aren't raid spec'd wish I still had my points in root can't afford it. I don't even have the bottom tier line (bleeding, stabbing, ...etc).  Yes repeated stabbing is nice in pvp in a raid you miss autoattacks using it and getaway would be nice without our bard's blade dance in a raid.  Bottom line though except for the physicality buffs and hemotoxin the others really make no huge impact on your parse.  Bleeding's 1% IIRC debuff on raid mobs HP isn't alot if you think about it.  I had it have noticed no difference in parse although some say it wont show in parse.  I would like to show hard numbers cause I still am not satisfied with the way i have the assassin line spec'd.  Its hard to make up your mind and test it out with the 10 gp, 1 pp, 10 pp respecs every 30 days [Removed for Content].  But generally unless some necro pulls the mob away from tank and having to chase it, someone turns it and and too tired to find back of mob, or am distracted and not even putting much effort into it......I'm usally #1 or #2 on parse.  Only one that may beat me in certain situations is necro or another assassin.  Personally get outparsed cause Through up exacting or honed reflexes late in fight instead at beginning which basicly means I need to get into habit of following the same routine more.  Kaix is only necro that I've ever seen that does an awesome 2300+ parse constantly but at the same time he pulls aggro alot.  I twinge when I see a necro outparse me but who cares it means the encounter is going down faster.   Spec however you want according to your playstyle.....however, newb assassins (not saying you are one) that show in raids makes our class look bad make raid leaders not want us in a raid tbh.  Personally I wouldn't allow you in the raid except to fill a spot if your not spec'd to do high dps IMO.</p></blockquote> You're in "I Like Pie" though, and KoS zones are last expansion.

[Tass]

<cite>Shikamaru wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tass@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Stamina is a crutch....</p><p>Agility....you're not a ranger.</p><p>Either of those would be nice to have but if you want to raid you need str and int lines.  Assassin AAs suck....Yes the pvp ones are nice to have if you aren't raid spec'd wish I still had my points in root can't afford it. I don't even have the bottom tier line (bleeding, stabbing, ...etc).  Yes repeated stabbing is nice in pvp in a raid you miss autoattacks using it and getaway would be nice without our bard's blade dance in a raid.  Bottom line though except for the physicality buffs and hemotoxin the others really make no huge impact on your parse.  Bleeding's 1% IIRC debuff on raid mobs HP isn't alot if you think about it.  I had it have noticed no difference in parse although some say it wont show in parse.  I would like to show hard numbers cause I still am not satisfied with the way i have the assassin line spec'd.  Its hard to make up your mind and test it out with the 10 gp, 1 pp, 10 pp respecs every 30 days [Removed for Content].  But generally unless some necro pulls the mob away from tank and having to chase it, someone turns it and and too tired to find back of mob, or am distracted and not even putting much effort into it......I'm usally #1 or #2 on parse.  Only one that may beat me in certain situations is necro or another assassin.  Personally get outparsed cause Through up exacting or honed reflexes late in fight instead at beginning which basicly means I need to get into habit of following the same routine more.  Kaix is only necro that I've ever seen that does an awesome 2300+ parse constantly but at the same time he pulls aggro alot.  I twinge when I see a necro outparse me but who cares it means the encounter is going down faster.   Spec however you want according to your playstyle.....however, newb assassins (not saying you are one) that show in raids makes our class look bad make raid leaders not want us in a raid tbh.  Personally I wouldn't allow you in the raid except to fill a spot if your not spec'd to do high dps IMO.</p></blockquote> You're in "I Like Pie" though, and KoS zones are last expansion. </blockquote>And that means precisely what? That I got tired of waiting 2 weeks to get any indication that I could join Onyx after I applied and got tired of waiting and joined another guild?  Yes I see recruiting Udee over me was obviously a brilliant idea.  So since I didn't join or was accepted into Onyx we're not as uber as you?  Or I didn't want to exile and have easy mode?  Most of most of the top tier assassins that were in kraken/overlords/onyx have quit the game or rolled swashy.  I was wanting to be ready for eof expansion over a year ago so I guess its my fault those guilds chose poorly on their assassins since friends like bleed and others have left but poor old Snoopy Tass still here. /shrug

[Tass]

<cite>Malicorp wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shikamaru wrote:</cite><blockquote> Face it Malicor, it isn't all about the gear, you have to chock some of it up to skill my dear buddy. </blockquote> Maybe 10% experience, 90% gear. Player skill, however, is not the issue. Anyone who can not get over their uberleetness enough to get some freaking adornments on their relatively good gear is leaving themselves very open to be caught and surpassed. </blockquote> Any shrub assassin with str/int lines wearing all strength adornments, god pet, and strength food can get their strength above 500 and outparse or parse even with another assassin with all fabled or mostly fabled gear with the exact same raid group buffs if the fabled assassin doesn't ahve the adornments.  That assassin just wont survive raid AOEs so yes he can catch you napping but he'll be broke.

[Malicorp]

Tass@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Malicorp wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shikamaru wrote:</cite><blockquote> Face it Malicor, it isn't all about the gear, you have to chock some of it up to skill my dear buddy. </blockquote> Maybe 10% experience, 90% gear. Player skill, however, is not the issue. Anyone who can not get over their uberleetness enough to get some freaking adornments on their relatively good gear is leaving themselves very open to be caught and surpassed. </blockquote> Any shrub assassin with str/int lines wearing all strength adornments, god pet, and strength food can get their strength above 500 and outparse or parse even with another assassin with all fabled or mostly fabled gear with the exact same raid group buffs if the fabled assassin doesn't ahve the adornments.  That assassin just wont survive raid AOEs so yes he can catch you napping but he'll be broke.</blockquote>Tass, you're wrong here. My weapons are Dirk of Negativity and Talonscreach. His weapons are GDoH and Dirk of Nightfall. We have approximately the same number of master spells. I seem to more regularly fall into the main tank group, whereas Shax seems to more consistently end up in a DPS or "mixed" group, so it often makes it tough to compare outputs. I don't parse badly and I think Shax would agree with that. He will consistently beat me by 200-400 DPS (we're talking the difference between 1800-2000 and 2000-2400). I certainly need to improve my use of cooldowns, Constriction, timing Concealment backstabs with CoB, allowing swings between CAs, etc, etc. I certainly won't allow gear to allow me to be a crutch when people post parses, but the simple fact is that gear and groups matter a lot.

[Shikamaru]

Malicor may be the worst assassin ever, but he's better than all the other assassins on the server, besides Shax that is.

[Shinnar]

<cite>Shikamaru wrote:</cite><blockquote>Vydar@Vox wrote: <blockquote>I'm always top 3 in our guild raids with my setup. Up the Str line to the end, looks like... 4-4-6-8 (Blademaster) Up the Int line looks like... 4-4-6-8 (Nightshade) This gives you faster reuse timer and more damage on Decap and I think Killing Blade, may be wrong on Killing Blade.  Been so long that I forget if its timer is longer lol. So now you get increased melee crit and spell crit (spell crit= procs and poisons) = much more DPS over raid fights (since they run for a few minutes at a time.)  This means that even when you have to use Vit Breach or Mental Breach instead of Caustic, you still get an ok damage output.  Also, the Nightshade poison drops 300-600 on average damage with a decent amount of int every 8 seconds for 48 seconds, meaning 6 times, so roughly 3k extra damage.  I've seen it crit up to 900 damage, and with the bonus to spell crit... you get the point.  In the Assassin tree, go with Bleed and go with Stabbing.  This means you can string your attacks together faster (important for PvP) and all your tricks are upgraded (important for PvP, stifle and roots important for raids).  Bleed increases all your damage on  your bleed attacks, as well as reducing the target HP (the HP reduction doesn't show up in parse unfortunately).  ALWAYS use Caustic.  It = more damage, because it procs about 5x a minute rather than hemotoxin which procs like twice.  Caustic is much more damage, and if you're lucky enough to have a Dirge with Luck of the Dirge buff on, all your procs/poisons hit more often.  Other than that, you just have to know when/how to use your CA's and temp buffs.  When to use ranged, when to use melee, etc.  Experiment with your ca's in what order.  Once you get the hang of it, you should always be top 5.  In our guild, it's usually Famine first, either me or a Necro second, then me or a Necro third lol. </blockquote> Bleeding line is worthless, and I have no clue where you got the idea that caustic is better than hemotoxin after you get the AA points into it. Getaway is probably one of the best EoF AAs you can get for a PvP assassin that also raids, bleeding line hardly adds any damage and you are wasting tons of AA points if you even decide to go down that line. Tricks and Physicality are the two lines you should get if you are a raid/pvp assassin </blockquote><p>Exactly ..... and the last 8 points to 5debuff - 3hemo or 3dot - 5 assassin mark</p>

[Tass]

<cite>Malicorp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tass@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Malicorp wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shikamaru wrote:</cite><blockquote> Face it Malicor, it isn't all about the gear, you have to chock some of it up to skill my dear buddy. </blockquote> Maybe 10% experience, 90% gear. Player skill, however, is not the issue. Anyone who can not get over their uberleetness enough to get some freaking adornments on their relatively good gear is leaving themselves very open to be caught and surpassed. </blockquote> Any shrub assassin with str/int lines wearing all strength adornments, god pet, and strength food can get their strength above 500 and outparse or parse even with another assassin with all fabled or mostly fabled gear with the exact same raid group buffs if the fabled assassin doesn't ahve the adornments.  That assassin just wont survive raid AOEs so yes he can catch you napping but he'll be broke.</blockquote>Tass, you're wrong here. My weapons are Dirk of Negativity and Talonscreach. His weapons are GDoH and Dirk of Nightfall. We have approximately the same number of master spells. I seem to more regularly fall into the main tank group, whereas Shax seems to more consistently end up in a DPS or "mixed" group, so it often makes it tough to compare outputs. I don't parse badly and I think Shax would agree with that. He will consistently beat me by 200-400 DPS (we're talking the difference between 1800-2000 and 2000-2400). I certainly need to improve my use of cooldowns, Constriction, timing Concealment backstabs with CoB, allowing swings between CAs, etc, etc. I certainly won't allow gear to allow me to be a crutch when people post parses, but the simple fact is that gear and groups matter a lot. </blockquote>Personally I wouldn't worry about 200 difference if your parsing 1800 regularly and top2 zone wide parse.