Can we get some protection in the caves?

[Deancs]

<p>I pvp on both sides of the house, so there is no bias as to which faction I am with. I pvp to pvp if that makes sense. The thing that bothers me is that when a q goes into the ruins there are guards everywhere. In the caves there is one guard. The rest of the zone is wide open. This makes it nearly impossible for new people to the pvp server to get anything accomplished there. I sat there one night and watched 2 groups of freeps own everyone and everything. The guard just stands there. Explain to me how this is fair. </p><p>Since you are not gonna turn off the level locking then at least give the new guys in the caves a little protection. This is a bit ridiculous. </p><p>But I still stand by the first fix which is turn off the level locking and it will solve it. Really theres no need for it since everyone can mentor for the low level content, but thats beside the point.</p>

[Cantilena]

<p>They can mentor for the low level content, and then be completely defenseless when attacked.  There is no problem with level locking.  As for the Caves being easy pickins compared to the Ruins, you are 100% correct.  It's also WAY easier to zone out of the Caves from just about anywhere in the zone compared to zoning out of the ruins when help does arrive.</p><p>Removing level locking is not the answer.  The answer is to get help from your Q friends and kill the Freeps, or spend the whopping 30 minutes it will take you to do your little quests in the caves and outlevel the place some other time when there aren't so many Freeps there.  Taking away the only mechanism friends with varying play times have to be able to PvP together (combat xp lock) would ruin things in a lot more places than just the Caves.</p>

[Badaxe Ba]

I Don't think its such a bad idea, one extra guard probably wouldn't hurt, the simple fact of the matter is that a good player practically knows to a whit where the guards boundary lies.  Truthfully, guards aren't really the best shield at that level against pvp, as ranged attacks of many kinds can inflict damage on a player who's standing on top of a guard.  There are the oakmyst forest and the old ruins to switch off to when the freeps overwhelm the Q's numbers and levels.  Its sadly true that many times I've seen more freeporters than qeynosians in the caves.  Help isn't always available, and asking someone to mentor down in a contested zone is tantamount to suicide for that player.  Even when reinforcements arrive, the down below is a warren of many exits only one click away for the freeporters.

[zorros]

Feroce@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>They can mentor for the low level content, and then be completely defenseless when attacked.  There is no problem with level locking.  As for the Caves being easy pickins compared to the Ruins, you are 100% correct.  It's also WAY easier to zone out of the Caves from just about anywhere in the zone compared to zoning out of the ruins when help does arrive.</p><p><span style="font-size: x-small"><span style="color: #3300ff">Removing level locking is not the answer.  The answer is to get help from your Q friends and kill the Freeps, or spend the whopping 30 minutes it will take you to do your little quests in the caves and outlevel the place some other time when there aren't so many Freeps there.  Taking away the only mechanism friends with varying play times have to be able to PvP together (combat xp lock) would ruin things in a lot more places than just the Caves.</span></span></p></blockquote>QFE

[Cocytus]

<p>I donn't really have any problems with the way it is. We can get to all of the Freeport yards un-carnaged...So I don't mind that we only have 1 guard in the caves.</p>

[Tatate]

<p>I have played both sides also. At level 17 as a swashbuckler I had no problem taking out the guards in the ruins solo if a couple aggroed me. All the guards in the ruins are around level 14 and are ^^ and if you have a buddy or two they are not a problem for the most part. In the caves you have one guard, yes, but it is a level 25^^^ Also you mentioned it is easy for Freeportians to zone out of the caves, well, it is also easy for Qeynosians to do the same considering there is two bells right next to each other...and what do ya know, there is the level 25^^^ guard right by the bells. I'm hoping soon though that SOE implements the no zoning policy where as after you engage someone you won't be able to zone, so no more zoners in caves..or anywhere else..for both sides, Qs and FPs.</p>

[lllo0o0ol]

Considering the difficulty involved in getting to the caves vs getting into ANY of the FP lowbies zones, I think one guard is more than fair.

[PeaSy1]

Difficulty? It just takes a lil more time no guards hinder going into the caves save the lvl 20 one that wanders the line through the entire peat bog. Theres guard at the entrance into the sprawl then more guards ayt every gate plus at the ruins zone in. Then ruins is flooded with 14-16 ^^^ fp militia. The caves do have other guards though there are some lvl 10 and 11 non heroic guys by the holes on the top floor =/. And ok you can take out some of the militia but with fp on you also your at a disadvantage.In caves as soo as you get to second lvl you are in a sactuary save if a hookin ranger is waitin on the tent for you to come too close.

[lllo0o0ol]

<cite>PeaSy1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Difficulty? It just takes a lil more time no guards hinder going into the caves save the lvl 20 one that wanders the line through the entire peat bog. Theres guard at the entrance into the sprawl then more guards ayt every gate plus at the ruins zone in. Then ruins is flooded with 14-16 ^^^ fp militia. The caves do have other guards though there are some lvl 10 and 11 non heroic guys by the holes on the top floor =/. And ok you can take out some of the militia but with fp on you also your at a disadvantage.In caves as soo as you get to second lvl you are in a sactuary save if a hookin ranger is waitin on the tent for you to come too close. </blockquote> To get to lowbie zones in Freeport-->spires to commonlands-->spires drop you about an 1/8th of the zone away from GY zone in-->zone into GY/Sprawl; both lead to either ruins/sunken city. You die, you revive in CL and simply need to run to the zone in again. Qeynos lowbie zones -->Spires to Ant, all the way from NE corner of ant all the way down to SW corner, at lvl 10-12 most everything on half that run is red or deep orange-->jump in water, swim to Peat Bog zone in, dodge the 2 lvl 25^^^ guards who path there, zone into vermins snye, zone into down belwo, zone into caves. You die, you revive out at TS griff and have to do it all again. And this si not even bringing up Oakmyst or Forest Ruins which are extremely difficult to impossible for unseasoned players. So yeah, I say its more difficult.

[Magius789]

Just make a ranger, deck him out, get him the hook arrow aa and then laugh your sorry little [Removed for Content] off as one person creates carnage for a whole group!  <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I don't do this but if I were to start my ranger again you bet your behind I'd be all up for it.  I've even camped my little monk in the caves on venekor so when I hear the caves need help I jump on him and try to do what I can to clear the place out.

[Deancs]

One other thing I noticed about the guards is the freep guards will aggro if you use a ranged attack while the freep your trying to kill is next to him. Guards on Q side do not. Explain this one.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>lllo0o0olll wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PeaSy1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Difficulty? It just takes a lil more time no guards hinder going into the caves save the lvl 20 one that wanders the line through the entire peat bog. Theres guard at the entrance into the sprawl then more guards ayt every gate plus at the ruins zone in. Then ruins is flooded with 14-16 ^^^ fp militia. The caves do have other guards though there are some lvl 10 and 11 non heroic guys by the holes on the top floor =/. And ok you can take out some of the militia but with fp on you also your at a disadvantage.In caves as soo as you get to second lvl you are in a sactuary save if a hookin ranger is waitin on the tent for you to come too close. </blockquote>To get to lowbie zones in Freeport-->spires to commonlands-->spires drop you about an 1/8th of the zone away from GY zone in-->zone into GY/Sprawl; both lead to either ruins/sunken city. You die, you revive in CL and simply need to run to the zone in again. Qeynos lowbie zones -->Spires to Ant, all the way from NE corner of ant all the way down to SW corner, at lvl 10-12 most everything on half that run is red or deep orange-->jump in water, swim to Peat Bog zone in, dodge the 2 lvl 25^^^ guards who path there, zone into vermins snye, zone into down belwo, zone into caves. You die, you revive out at TS griff and have to do it all again. And this si not even bringing up Oakmyst or Forest Ruins which are extremely difficult to impossible for unseasoned players. So yeah, I say its more difficult. </blockquote>Haha, I saw a Ranger hit Champ doing nothing but "hooking" in the caves.  Funny [Removed for Content] to watch.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Deancs wrote:</cite><blockquote>One other thing I noticed about the guards is the freep guards will aggro if you use a ranged attack while the freep your trying to kill is next to him. Guards on Q side do not. Explain this one.</blockquote>Freeport guards never did that to me. They do charge in on you if you use pets, but so does the Q guards.

[Bozidar]

<p>Done it on both sides, it's way easier for the Qs, that's why i like to hunt for them in CL <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Making it a little less easy for them makes me giggle.. </p><p>concerning Teen pvp here</p><p>Qeynosians:</p><p>If yer smart, come in through Nek.  Run to the nek griff, fly to the Hidden Canyon griff.  Then fly to the freeport griffon, and jump either: A) just past the bloodskulls, a short ways from the sprawl.  This gives you the chance to track/kill any lowbies doing Bloodskull quests or bots working on the names in this area.  B) Just past the dog pond, for a short ride to the Graveyard.</p><p>Sprawl-Ruins: Ok, if you go into the sprawl there are two guards outside the zone there that can screw you up.  Once you figure out just to sprint and spam the zone line, you won't die again.  If an unfriendly engages you in this area, you have a nice easy instance to jump into to gain immunity back (which allows you to get to the sprawl unmolested).  Once in the sprawl you can gank away.. kill names.. and if things get dicy you can zone out to cl or the serpent sewer.  I wouldn't recommend zoning into the Ruins if things get dicey <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I don't know WHY qeynosians come to the ruins.  I know the guards aren't that tough, but once someone starts kicking your tail in you're not going to get away w/o taking a few hits from the guards.  If you start kicking someone's face in.. they can very easily find a mob to help them out.  I've gotten plenty of fame in here from rangers and others who thought they could sneak in and pick off the weak ones.  I acutally was around 15th lvl and saw a group of oranges were being reported.  I shouted for someone to invite me, and we'll wipe em.  Someone did.. and i didn't pay attention to who.. and i started going to town on them.  We lost 2 or 3, but we wiped 4 of them and chased 2 out.  I didn't noticed till later that i'd been grouped with a bunch of lvl 10 doods <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Ruins just ISN'T where you want to pvp as a qeynosian w/o a full group, or a raid.  So sorry for you Q boys.. 1 out of 4 of our lowbie zones is very unfriendly for you.</p><p>Graveyard-Sunk City: The ultimate gankers paradise.  Roll out a lvl 12 swashy, and park him in the graveyard.  You will -- literally -- never ever die.  Get immunity, and scout out the GY.  If you see it's clear of unfriendlies, kill a named or two, or gank a few schmucks.  If it's too hostile.. zone into SC.  More immunity.  You can't be touched.  Gy, same thing.. scout it out. and if it's hostile, don't leave the zone line, just camp till later.  Trust me, there will be kills there later with zero risk.  There are no *real* guards in these zones except by the zone line to Stonestair in the GY and the bells in Sunk.  Gankers paradise.. fact.  </p><p>This is not my toon, btw, but i'm making a point:</p><p><img src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=574129121" border="0"></p><p>Ok, now as a freeporter, you basically have one lowbie zone you can pvp in, the caves.  To get there, if you're smart, you come in from TS and get on that griff asap.  Name the greatest hot spots for pvp in CL...?  Nek gate? No.  Area between nek gate and nek griff?  no.  Ok, now name the hottest spots for pvp in Ant?  TS griff?  Uhm.. yes.  Area between TS door and griff?  Uhm.. yep.  As a freeporter you may think that spiring in and going to OT is a better idea.. except that the spire in CL is yet ANOTHER pvp hot spot you'd have to stand around waiting at. Last night, died 3 times there just trying to get to ant.</p><p>So once you get on the griff (harder for a fp in ant than a q in cl), you're pretty much home free to get to the caves.  You griff to Qgate, griff to Ot, and jump not too far from the caves entrance.  You get to the caves w/o losing immunity but -- you do have to go through 2 zones that are 8 level ranges.  So if for some reason you break immunity... you're very exposed.  I won't mention Black and Moor in peat bog, they're too easy to avoid, it's silly to think they offer any protection.  Ok, so you get to the caves, and there is a guard there, you run up and away, and you're away from him.  Now you can pvp and gank lowbies to your hearts content.. but.  Unlike as a qeynosian in CL, you must remain a very VERY safe distance from the guards at all time.  However safe you think the distance is.. double it, triple it.  The qs there will bring in a ranger to hook-shot you, and you will die to a guard, and have to run all the way back from Ant (seriously, this isn't hard, but it is annoying).   Caves are easy to pvp in, and easy to get away in (IMO).</p><p>But that's it.  You can't get to a single other lowbie zone to pvp w/o a carnage flag.  edit - i didn't mention peat bog as a pvp zone because you so VERY rarely see a Q there.  It's a viable zone.. but rarely used in my experience, by anyone at lvl 10 or higher.</p><p>Gfey is a different matter though.. as will the new zone be later this month, i'm sure</p>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Like the Caves needs adapting when Freeporters can't even enter any of the other newbie zones without almost dying to guards and getting Carnaged. Jesus. --_--''...

[Fonrian]

Just ask Lisse on Nagafen. All she does is camp the guard in the caves all day hook arrowing. Saw her leave the guard's side one time and I killed her....rangers can't see stealth muahahaha.  Anyway, yeah....dreadnaught from spamming hook arrow while hugging guards.  No zones should have any protection....it is PvP after all.  I say remove all guards, the players should be the ones protecting eachother, not NPC's. 

[Bozidar]

Splinter@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Just ask Lisse on Nagafen. All she does is camp the guard in the caves all day hook arrowing. Saw her leave the guard's side one time and I killed her....rangers can't see stealth muahahaha.  Anyway, yeah....dreadnaught from spamming hook arrow while hugging guards.  No zones should have any protection....it is PvP after all.  I say remove all guards, the players should be the ones protecting eachother, not NPC's.  </blockquote>Hmm... know what?  I'm on board with this idea.  No guards aggro.  Revive immunity and various other immunity timers are enough.  Let the actual city zones be protected.. the rest shouldn't aggro to anyone. (but keep them there so that if someone hits an aoe they get screwed.. )

[Spag]

<cite>lllo0o0olll wrote:</cite><blockquote>To get to lowbie zones in Freeport-->spires to commonlands-->spires drop you about an 1/8th of the zone away from GY zone in-->zone into GY/Sprawl; both lead to either ruins/sunken city. You die, you revive in CL and simply need to run to the zone in again. Qeynos lowbie zones -->Spires to Ant, all the way from NE corner of ant all the way down to SW corner, at lvl 10-12 most everything on half that run is red or deep orange-->jump in water, swim to Peat Bog zone in, dodge the 2 lvl 25^^^ guards who path there, zone into vermins snye, zone into down belwo, zone into caves. You die, you revive out at TS griff and have to do it all again. And this si not even bringing up Oakmyst or Forest Ruins which are extremely difficult to impossible for unseasoned players. So yeah, I say its more difficult. </blockquote><p>Are you actually complaining that its hard to get to the caves?   Try going to the griff tower and fly to qeynos gates.  If by chance you don't make it and a big bad PvE mob kills you, guess what?  you revive right next to where you were headed.  Run up the griff tower under immunity, and fly to qeynos gates, then fly to oracle as soon as you land, drop off in the water right next to the zone in for the peat bog.  The rest of the trip can be done under immunity as well.  You have only to watch out for the roamer in the peat bog,  oh no that was tough.  Once you are inside you dont even have to get past the guard, as you are out of agro range. Yet in Ruins you have to get past multiple guards, and freeport malitia to even get to the place were freeport players are.  </p><p>You seriously have issues if you think its tough to get to the caves.  There is almost constant pvp action in the caves.  The ruins?  not so much.  Hmm wonder why that is?  Consider that you need stealth or invis to even have a chance in ruins. </p>

[Fonrian]

<cite>Spag wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>lllo0o0olll wrote:</cite><blockquote>To get to lowbie zones in Freeport-->spires to commonlands-->spires drop you about an 1/8th of the zone away from GY zone in-->zone into GY/Sprawl; both lead to either ruins/sunken city. You die, you revive in CL and simply need to run to the zone in again. Qeynos lowbie zones -->Spires to Ant, all the way from NE corner of ant all the way down to SW corner, at lvl 10-12 most everything on half that run is red or deep orange-->jump in water, swim to Peat Bog zone in, dodge the 2 lvl 25^^^ guards who path there, zone into vermins snye, zone into down belwo, zone into caves. You die, you revive out at TS griff and have to do it all again. And this si not even bringing up Oakmyst or Forest Ruins which are extremely difficult to impossible for unseasoned players. So yeah, I say its more difficult. </blockquote><p>Are you actually complaining that its hard to get to the caves?   Try going to the griff tower and fly to qeynos gates.  If by chance you don't make it and a big bad PvE mob kills you, guess what?  you revive right next to where you were headed.  Run up the griff tower under immunity, and fly to qeynos gates, then fly to oracle as soon as you land, drop off in the water right next to the zone in for the peat bog.  The rest of the trip can be done under immunity as well.  You have only to watch out for the roamer in the peat bog,  oh no that was tough.  Once you are inside you dont even have to get past the guard, as you are out of agro range. Yet in Ruins you have to get past multiple guards, and freeport malitia to even get to the place were freeport players are.  </p><p>You seriously have issues if you think its tough to get to the caves.  <b><u>There is almost constant pvp action in the caves.  The ruins?  not so much.  Hmm wonder why that is?</u></b>  Consider that you need stealth or invis to even have a chance in ruins. </p></blockquote> Because that would require Q's to group up and hunt for Freeps?  Instead of running to the guards in the caves when there's even a hint of PvP action.

[Bozidar]

<cite>Spag wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Are you actually complaining that its hard to get to the caves?   Try going to the griff tower and fly to qeynos gates.  If by chance you don't make it and a big bad PvE mob kills you, guess what?  you revive right next to where you were headed.  Run up the griff tower under immunity, and fly to qeynos gates, then fly to oracle as soon as you land, drop off in the water right next to the zone in for the peat bog.  The rest of the trip can be done under immunity as well.  You have only to watch out for the roamer in the peat bog,  oh no that was tough.  Once you are inside you dont even have to get past the guard, as you are out of agro range. Yet in Ruins you have to get past multiple guards, and freeport malitia to even get to the place were freeport players are.  </p><p>You seriously have issues if you think its tough to get to the caves.  There is almost constant pvp action in the caves.  The ruins?  not so much.  Hmm wonder why that is?  Consider that you need stealth or invis to even have a chance in ruins. </p></blockquote><p> The problem isn't that it's hard to get to the caves.. the point is that it's hardER than it is for Qs.</p><p>On top of that, they can pvp in all 4 lowbie zones of ours, only 1 of them is very unfriendly (but still very possible), meanwhile as a freeporter i have essentially one lowbie zone i can go to.  I can't move around hop in between, and do a nice little circle from sunk, gy, wfp gate, sprawl, ruins and back.. all the while knocking off names along the way.</p><p>Trust me.. i racked up 500 kills easily on the original Raike on vox, making 20 plat in about 2 weeks of this.  It's a piece of cake for a Q.  Look at that image linked above, and tell me that you could do that while pvping in the Caves.</p>

[Spag]

<p>How many lvl 10+ player hang out in the other T1 zones?  In Qeynos the caves is where the 10+ content is, and in FP Ruins is where the 10+ content is.  </p><p>So yeah you can get to graveyard and sunken city and the sprawl, walk around and watch people ding from 5 to 6 and from 6 to 7.  But any FP with half a brain will be in ruins when they ding 10 or immediately after.</p><p>In Qeynos, unless you want to grind on solo lvl 9 and 10 mobs, you move into the caves to get the lvl 10+ quests, and good luck with that, as there is constant pvp action.</p><p>Who really cares whats going on in forest ruins, and oakmyst forest, you can't attack players under lvl 10 anyway.  As for the peat bog, you can get there, but same thing goes, nobody lvl 10+ there.</p>

[kreepr]

<cite>Spag wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How many lvl 10+ player hang out in the other T1 zones?  In Qeynos the caves is where the 10+ content is, and in FP Ruins is where the 10+ content is.  </p><p>So yeah you can get to graveyard and sunken city and the sprawl, walk around and watch people ding from 5 to 6 and from 6 to 7.  But any FP with half a brain will be in ruins when they ding 10 or immediately after.</p><p>In Qeynos, unless you want to grind on solo lvl 9 and 10 mobs, you move into the caves to get the lvl 10+ quests, and good luck with that, as there is constant pvp action.</p><p>Who really cares whats going on in forest ruins, and oakmyst forest, you can't attack players under lvl 10 anyway.  As for the peat bog, you can get there, but same thing goes, nobody lvl 10+ there.</p></blockquote><p> <span style="color: #ff0000">LOL your so full of it, you can camp all those areas till low 16 and farm and level, try again and you are not doing anything in the ruins solo at level 10. As far as forest ruins and oakmyst go yeah you Q's would love to keep those your little secret. I have camped Ghila and Mukblud in there and killed my share of toons from level 10 to 17 so dont try and tell me there is no action in there cause your full of [Removed for Content]. alot of you guys hide in there and level up unristricted cause its a PAIN IN THE [Removed for Content] for freeportes to get in, then they have to deal with being carnage flagged ounce in there.. Whens the last time you got carniged going in to one of the freeport T1 zones??????</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">You guys have it easy mode leveling threw T1 so go cry your river some where else. </span></p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Spag wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So yeah you can get to graveyard and sunken city and the sprawl, walk around and watch people ding from 5 to 6 and from 6 to 7.  But any FP with half a brain will be in ruins when they ding 10 or immediately after.</p></blockquote><p> What part of 500 kills, 2 weeks, 20 plat did you miss?  Those zones are a TREASURE trove for both freeps and qs alike.  To dismiss SC and Graveyard as non-pvp zones the way that Oakmyst and Forest ruins are, it's just being ignorant.</p><p>I'd be all over those zones, on a regular basis farming and ganking for faction, if i could GET to them.</p><p>But as a Q you don't have that problem.. you're free to do as you like.. </p><p>If anyone's <i>seriously</i>asking for anything here, i'd like to ask that oakmyst and forest ruins be opened up as zones we can get into directly from Ant.</p>

[Fonrian]

One of my favorite things to do is run into Forest Ruins or Oakmyst, the only problem is getting carnage flagged.  Then you have two lvl 16's come in grouped with some lvl 30 somethings to help kill one carnage flagged 16 brig.  Always makes for a good time. 

[Bozidar]

Splinter@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>One of my favorite things to do is run into Forest Ruins or Oakmyst, the only problem is getting carnage flagged.  Then you have two lvl 16's come in grouped with some lvl 30 somethings to help kill one carnage flagged 16 brig.  Always makes for a good time.  </blockquote> The trick is to camp for 15 minutes to let carnage go away, and come back carnage free.  Annoying as hell, and Qs don't have to do it to get to our zones..

[kreepr]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spag wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So yeah you can get to graveyard and sunken city and the sprawl, walk around and watch people ding from 5 to 6 and from 6 to 7.  But any FP with half a brain will be in ruins when they ding 10 or immediately after.</p></blockquote><p> What part of 500 kills, 2 weeks, 20 plat did you miss?  Those zones are a TREASURE trove for both freeps and qs alike.  To dismiss SC and Graveyard as non-pvp zones the way that Oakmyst and Forest ruins are, it's just being ignorant.</p><p>I'd be all over those zones, on a regular basis farming and ganking for faction, if i could GET to them.</p><p>But as a Q you don't have that problem.. you're free to do as you like.. </p><p>If anyone's <i>seriously</i>asking for anything here, i'd like to ask that oakmyst and forest ruins be opened up as zones we can get into directly from Ant.</p></blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000">To add to this I know the direct route to both so any Freeporter wanting to go send me a tell in game on Mukblud or Ghila and I will be glad get you in there. You will be carnage flagged so you can either camp there for a bit or there are a few some what safe places to hide for long enogh to drop the carnage flag. </span>