Wireless internet

[branvil]

<p>Hey Folks,</p><p>I'm a bit of a technical idiot so I appologize in advance.  I've recently moved to an area that does not have much in the way of broadband available and I'm hating it!   No cable, no DSL or anything like that.  There is a company B2X that offers a wireless internet 768 kbps up and down.  </p><p>My question is.. is that very much faster than dial up?  and also will the game play ok on that type of connection?</p><p>Also...   they say I can only use 25gigs per month?  I guess they mean downloading?  Is that going to present a problem playing EQ2 a few days a week??</p><p>Thanks in advance for any advice on this matter.</p><p>Ban</p>

[Nulad]

<cite>branvil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hey Folks,</p><p>I'm a bit of a technical idiot so I appologize in advance.  I've recently moved to an area that does not have much in the way of broadband available and I'm hating it!   No cable, no DSL or anything like that.  There is a company B2X that offers a wireless internet 768 kbps up and down. </p><span style="color: #cc0000">768kbps up? I think it's likely to be less although I could be wrong.</span> <p>My question is.. is that very much faster than dial up?  and also will the game play ok on that type of connection?</p><p><span style="color: #cc0000">Dial up is 56kbps, so it's substantially faster, eq2 should play just fine but a lot will depend on the additional latency generated by the wireless connection. So long as it's been setup well it should cause no issues.</span> </p><p>Also...   they say I can only use 25gigs per month?  I guess they mean downloading?  Is that going to present a problem playing EQ2 a few days a week??</p><span style="color: #cc0000">That's plenty of bandwidth and I don't think you'd ever be able to break through that just by playing eq2 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span> <p>Thanks in advance for any advice on this matter.</p><p>Ban</p></blockquote>

[branvil]

<p>Hey, thanks for the reply...</p><p>I could very well be wrong on the 768 up. ...  like I said, i'm a technical idiot hehe..</p><p>I figured anything had to be better then the old Netzero dial up Ha!  </p><p>I find raiding very hard now without broadband..  and being a healer that seriously effects my friends.</p><p>Hey, one more question if you all don't mind...   </p><p>I have an old Rad X700 vid card.  it worked well enough when I had a good broadband connection.   Do you think upgrading to a decent card would help with some of the lag im getting in places like POA and HOF or evening in raids zones for that matter?</p><p>Thanks again..</p>

[Wingrider01]

Talk to the local phone provider, ask if they have ISDN available, lot les then broadband, but a lot better then dial up. At least it is digital and stable. The drawback is ISDN requires a special modem that the phone provider should be able to supply and they should be able to supply the ISP serivce also. ISDN shold be able to be obtained in one ot two BRI - each being a total of 64KB each, 4 KB being dedicated to phone, 2 KB for a piggy back channel, so actual usable bandwith will be 58KB per BRI. Slightly faster then a 56KB modem, but it is not a variable bandwidth delievery - it is what you actually get, in addition it also has the ability to make stock voice calls, while you are using the data line and not lose bandwidth. Used ISDN for a number of years before broadband became available to my area. I still use it for telephone and hot backup when my cable modem goes belly up - which recently has been every other day

[branvil]

<p>Hey thanks.   I'll check into that as well.  </p><p>Thanks!</p>

[Bramwe]

My parents use a similar wireless internet but theirs is only 256 down and up(I tried talking them into the faster one but they wouldn't go for it).  When I go home I can play EQ2 as well as on my 6meg cable service.  I never go LD or anything on it and there doesn't seem to be any lag.   Also even though dial up is technically 56k that is under extremely good circumstances so going to a reliable 768kps will be like night and day.  The only restriction on wireless internet is that it takes direct line of site from the antenna they will give you to the tower to work.  So it isn't like a cell phone.  Trees will interfere.  Their techs will come out and check before installing the antenna on your house or barn to see whether it works or not. Just make sure you aren't getting satellite internet because it may be just as fast as cable or DSL on paper for upload/download but you would have a 1-2second lag on EVERYTHING you do so it is not really very good for gaming. As for the video card, I would do one upgrade at a time lol <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  You never know what  better internet or a better video  card may do for you and if you do both at once which one really helped more? There are two types of lag people get confused by.  If you are having video lag(usually choppiness; but when you type, messages still appear instantly and when you cast spells the spell goes off instantly but causes a lot of choppiness and stuttering) then a new video card could help.  If you are having only internet lag(chat messages delayed and spell casting is delayed after pushing buttons, or perfectly smooth video with a sudden 1-2second or more pause followed by everything seeming to move at warp speed to catch up) then the internet connection needs upgrading.

[branvil]

<p>ya, the whole "line of site" thing is what i'm worried about.   The person I talked to on the phone says the signal goes through trees and that type of thing but i don't know.   I no for sure that I don't have a line of site on it.  </p><p>She said the techs would come out and check it out..   not getting my hopes up at this time.  Thats the main reason I'm asking about the Video card.  Its just another option in case they tell me I can't have it.</p>

[antwar]

<p>the short answer to if it will go through trees is NO!!. any major obstruction between the antenna and tower such as a tree or building can, and WILL, block your signal. they only say that so that people will sign up to at least have the location tested for it. then when the tech goes out and checks and says it is a no-go, the customers get all upset saying that the phone rep said it would work. </p><p>phone reps know JACK-SQUAT when it comes to the actuall installing of wireless bradband internet. I know this because i WORK for a a company that installs wireless broadband internet, and they are the ones that have to deal with irate customers because of what the phone reps told them to get them to sign up to test it.</p><p>they DO require a line-of sight connection, so if you are in a valley, and the tower is not sitting right on the top of the side of the valley, then you wont get a signal, period. they work similar, but not exactly the same as satelite internet in that both reqire direct line of sight between the antenna and the provider.</p><p>isdn is a viable alternative, but alot of telephone companies are phasing otu that equipment. there has also been alot of expansion recently into rural areas by cable providers. you could check into seeing when/if they might be installing a trunk line in your area. if you happen to live within a 10ish block area (i dunno how many feet that is) from the telephone companies C/O building, you might be able to get DSL. the longer the distance and the poorer quality of the line between your house and the C/O will have an impact on your actual bandwidth you recieve.</p><p>hope you have good luck.</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

I use a wireless connection to play EQ2 and I'm pretty knowledgeable about rf data in general, so I'm gunna weigh in on this.  I haven't ever installed wireless "internet", but I've designed and installed a lot of wireless data networks (both IP and serial) over the last 10 years as part of my job.  First off, I have a very marginal signal.  If this had been a system I put in, I would have done quite a bit more to reduce loss.  But anyway, I get tons of lag due to the latency of the radio.  If you have a stronger signal you might not have as much trouble.  My radio is actually having to retry appx 25% of the time.  That 768 number you threw out is probably what the company is advertising, thats what I'm supposedly paying for (768 burst mind you which means its not guaranteed, and in fact will only happen under perfect circumstances), but you should know its a lie.  Its one of those things where if you send just the right data packet, it can theoretically travel that fast.  But, try to fill up the old pipeline, and it slows way down.  You see that in almost all types of internet connections, but with a radio, its much worse.  See, there are physical limitations on how fast data can be transmitted on a given radio wave.  If the radios they use are 900MHz spread spectrum like the one i use, I think the real limit is like 128k or 512k.  To get any faster, they have to use mega data compression, and probably a few other cons, err tricks that I don't even understand.  Now, if the Radios use DSS or direct sequencing, then they automatically (theoretically) get 8 times faster (and for the record mine does not).  The drawback there is that the signal is 8 times weaker.  2.4G and 5.4 GHz radios are also much faster.  The physical limitations of the radio wave i mentioned earlier allow data to travel faster at higher frequencies.  But once again, its tougher to get signals through with higher frequencies because they dissipate so much faster.  In case anyone is wondering at this point, the wireless routers you have in your home (802.11X) are typically 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz and use direct sequencing, but at much lower power than what we are talking about here.  So, they are kinda the top end for how fast the internet can work over RF.  So, I hope i didn't get too technical and bore you.  Or if I did, hopefully you've skipped down here to read the summary.  When they do the radio survey (which I hope will be free) listen if they say something like 'your signal is marginal'.  If they even know what a signal to noise ratio is (my installer didn't) ask em what it is.  That is the difference between the received signal strength and the strength of the noise.  You need at least 10 (or is it 12) dB for the radio to work right, and you'd ideally like 20 or more so you have a fade margin.  (Mine is around 10).  And finally, when they run their data test, see if they have anything that tells them how many retries the radio was doing.  Over 10% is bad.  One more thing to remember, when they do their test, they probably wont have their antenna as high as they will put yours, and they might not even have as strong of an antenna.  So its possible the installer will tell you he got a marginal signal, but your signal will be better , and he won't just be trying to sell you a bill of goods.   But, If you have a bad radio survey, get ISDN.  I wish I'd done that.  It may max out at 256k, but its an honest 256k.  When you see internet speeds for cable modems or DSL, realize that they all tend to give you best case scenarios, because your speed depends on who else in your neighborhood is online.  With an ISDN, your speed is always 256k to the phone company unless you make a call, in which case its 128k.  Course, even when cable or DSL is dogged down, its still usually faster than ISDN, but thats not true for RF internet connections.  I'm not sure if ISDN is being phased out by phone companies around the country, but the phone company told me that in Texas it was the law that they had to provide at least ISDN access to every square inch of the state.  So, even if they didn't have lines out to me, they had to get them here.  May be different on other states.  And another thing, Radios CAN shoot through trees.  As a general rule, higher frequencies can shoot through things while lower frequencies will go around.  (Lower frequencies means like 150MHz, you wont be using anything that low).  It depends on a lot of things, but the most important one is how close the ISP's radio is to you.  If its less than a mile away trees shouldn't be a problem (mine is like 7 IIRC).  But, just put the antenna above the treeline and it won't be an issue.  If thats impossible, will you be able to keep the trees trimmed?  -h

[Wingrider01]

-=Hoss=- wrote: <blockquote>I use a wireless connection to play EQ2 and I'm pretty knowledgeable about rf data in general, so I'm gunna weigh in on this.  I haven't ever installed wireless "internet", but I've designed and installed a lot of wireless data networks (both IP and serial) over the last 10 years as part of my job.  First off, I have a very marginal signal.  If this had been a system I put in, I would have done quite a bit more to reduce loss.  But anyway, I get tons of lag due to the latency of the radio.  If you have a stronger signal you might not have as much trouble.  My radio is actually having to retry appx 25% of the time.  That 768 number you threw out is probably what the company is advertising, thats what I'm supposedly paying for (768 burst mind you which means its not guaranteed, and in fact will only happen under perfect circumstances), but you should know its a lie.  Its one of those things where if you send just the right data packet, it can theoretically travel that fast.  But, try to fill up the old pipeline, and it slows way down.  You see that in almost all types of internet connections, but with a radio, its much worse.  See, there are physical limitations on how fast data can be transmitted on a given radio wave.  If the radios they use are 900MHz spread spectrum like the one i use, I think the real limit is like 128k or 512k.  To get any faster, they have to use mega data compression, and probably a few other cons, err tricks that I don't even understand.  Now, if the Radios use DSS or direct sequencing, then they automatically (theoretically) get 8 times faster (and for the record mine does not).  The drawback there is that the signal is 8 times weaker.  2.4G and 5.4 GHz radios are also much faster.  The physical limitations of the radio wave i mentioned earlier allow data to travel faster at higher frequencies.  But once again, its tougher to get signals through with higher frequencies because they dissipate so much faster.  In case anyone is wondering at this point, the wireless routers you have in your home (802.11X) are typically 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz and use direct sequencing, but at much lower power than what we are talking about here.  So, they are kinda the top end for how fast the internet can work over RF.  So, I hope i didn't get too technical and bore you.  Or if I did, hopefully you've skipped down here to read the summary.  When they do the radio survey (which I hope will be free) listen if they say something like 'your signal is marginal'.  If they even know what a signal to noise ratio is (my installer didn't) ask em what it is.  That is the difference between the received signal strength and the strength of the noise.  You need at least 10 (or is it 12) dB for the radio to work right, and you'd ideally like 20 or more so you have a fade margin.  (Mine is around 10).  And finally, when they run their data test, see if they have anything that tells them how many retries the radio was doing.  Over 10% is bad.  One more thing to remember, when they do their test, they probably wont have their antenna as high as they will put yours, and they might not even have as strong of an antenna.  So its possible the installer will tell you he got a marginal signal, but your signal will be better , and he won't just be trying to sell you a bill of goods.   But, If you have a bad radio survey, get ISDN.  I wish I'd done that.  It may max out at 256k, but its an honest 256k.  When you see internet speeds for cable modems or DSL, realize that they all tend to give you best case scenarios, because your speed depends on who else in your neighborhood is online.  With an ISDN, your speed is always 256k to the phone company unless you make a call, in which case its 128k.  Course, even when cable or DSL is dogged down, its still usually faster than ISDN, but thats not true for RF internet connections.  I'm not sure if ISDN is being phased out by phone companies around the country, but the phone company told me that in Texas it was the law that they had to provide at least ISDN access to every square inch of the state.  So, even if they didn't have lines out to me, they had to get them here.  May be different on other states.  And another thing, Radios CAN shoot through trees.  As a general rule, higher frequencies can shoot through things while lower frequencies will go around.  (Lower frequencies means like 150MHz, you wont be using anything that low).  It depends on a lot of things, but the most important one is how close the ISP's radio is to you.  If its less than a mile away trees shouldn't be a problem (mine is like 7 IIRC).  But, just put the antenna above the treeline and it won't be an issue.  If thats impossible, will you be able to keep the trees trimmed?  -h </blockquote>One of the better writeups I have seen - one thing missed - environmental interferance, wireless can be affected by the environment conditions also, heavy thunderstorms, sunspots, etc. Anything that can disrupte radio communications will also disrupte your wireless connection

[-=Hoss=-]

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>One of the better writeups I have seen - one thing missed - environmental interferance, wireless can be affected by the environment conditions also, heavy thunderstorms, sunspots, etc. Anything that can disrupte radio communications will also disrupte your wireless connection </blockquote> Oh you bet, and thanks.  Thats why the fade margin is so important.  Fade actually *mostly* refers to rain fade, but includes all of that.  For the record, when I get heavy rain, I don't notice much difference on my crappy connection.  -h

[antwar]

well i stand corrected about the trees, but i must admit that the company i work for rarely installs if there are trees in most of the signal cone coming off the tower. most, meaning that the treesblocks 60% or more of the area that the cone can provide. cone being vertical, not horizontal, that is another matter entirely. if we cannot get the antenna sufficiently out of the tree linein line of sight tot he tower, it just wont work. the company we contract for has an error rate restriction on installs where if we have under a 20 error rate, we install, if we cant get that, it does not go in. i do not know the details of the signal itself as i am not an installer, but the installers i have talked to all have stated that trees can indeed be an issue with the equipment we are forced to use, so i am going by what they say here.

[branvil]

<p>well sorry for the delay but here is the update..    the tech from B2X (wireless company)  said I can't get it due to the location of my house... to much crap between my house and the tower..</p><p>Now, B2X says they are a "line of sight" wireless company..    what about something like Verizon or Sprint wireless... isn't that like cell phone technology?  wouldn't line of sight not be a factor in this?  Laptops seem to work on the move as long as they are in a coverage area..  </p><p>could I not get a wireless card adapter for my home PC and try that?</p><p>oh, and thanks for all the in-depth write ups guys! great info,,, the man is always tring to rip off the Tech Noob! </p>

[batsu3]

I know your pain. I live in the country, and I only have 56k and satellite available. I have satellite TV and had to cut down several trees so I would not lose my signal in heavy rain storms, because the trees were just enough in the way to cause the signal to fade below the acceptable level when the clouds rolled in. My satellite company confirmed that satellite internet operates in burst transmissions that are fine for browsing, but give you up to a 3 second delay in online gaming. I'm not sure what Verizon and Sprint could dp for you. I have good cell phone reception where I live, but cell phone singals do not equate to wireless availability. I am about 7 miles from the nearest wireless internet availibility.I have no wireless providers even though I have cell service. A wireless card won't do anything if it doesn't have a signal that it can negotiate with. I unfortunately live 2 miles outside of ISDN range. Definitely check with your local phone company. ISDN only has a range of about 3 miles from whatever substation the phone company puts in for ISDN (usually at imajor ntersections) due to the limitations of the wiring (think of coxial cable losing its signal as the cabe gets longer). Your phone company should be able to ping your phone and tell you if you can get it in about 5 minutes. It would definitely be better than 56k, since 56k is really only pushing 5 to 6 kbps on transmissions, with some varience depending on how good your line is. Still with 56k I find my latency is only around 250-400 ms, since MMOs seem to only push about 1.5 to 2 kbps, unless you are in raids or places with a lot of players.

[ganjookie]

What I am about to suggest, I dont suggest you try.  It worked for a uhh friend of mine while he didnt have $$ to pay for the internets. buy a wireless card with a nice antennea.  See if you can join an unsecured neighbor connections.  My friend found 5 in his complex and was able to connect for months. or if they are secure, ask if you can mooch of thiers for a fair trade.  $$, car washing(lol), and/or phat loots etc.

[batsu3]

hehehe....that's definitely been done. If you have a friend with a laptop that is set up for wireless, have him come over and see if he is able to find a wireless network when he is at your place. Depends on if you have any close neighbors, hotels, or businesses with wireless access. Some people who live next to hotels get free wireless because the hotel offers it to all guests, and the neighbors live in the wireless range. A friend of mine works construction, and he frequently checks e-mail by parking close to a hotel or coffee shop and jumping onto their wireless network. Not exactly fair for the wireless company....kind of like stealing cable by splicing into the neighbor's TV line in my opinion, but I am not sure if there are any legal issues with doing this, since the wireless subscriber (the hotel, coffee shop,or neighbor) could require a password to keep people off the network if they wanted to. Usually the range on these wireless networks is extremely limited, so I don't know how much success someone would have in jumping onto a network unless they were within a couple hundred yards of the network source.

[branvil]

<p>Well, when I go on the verizon website and enter my address to find out if I am covered under their wireless area it says I am... so...   Maybe that's an option..   </p><p>Someone told me they let you try it for 30 days before giving them your first born child so maybe I will give it a try.</p><p>should be a pretty good upgrade from dial up I would imagine...</p>

[branvil]

<p>ok, I went and talked to a person at Sprint..  they told me that for a desktop comp that my best bet was using the lastest USB plug in modem/card gizmo...   They sell it for 50 bucks and the monthly is like $60...   they told me I wouldn't need to replace my dial up modem with a wireless one..   all I have to do is plug this gizmo into a USB port and im on....</p><p>Has anyone tried this??  is it gonna be much faster then my dial up?  I guess its cellular based instead of the line of site we talked about earlier in the post...</p><p>thanks for any insight...</p><p>Technically challenged...</p>