Please SOE randomize Set-Item drops [Archive]

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Echozar

05-11-2007, 05:53 AM

after comparing a few ingame databases and my own memories, I would like to know why there is now chance for a rogue or predator to get an setitem an FTH?I mean SOE changed the set drops to classes which are in the raid thats a good solution, but they dont change the loottable for the mobs so that a mob which dropps gloves can drop it for ANY class in the raid, instead they check which class of its 4 possible set gloves is in the raid and drop it for one of them...Yesterday we cleared FTH and got the 7th time the Templer underarms the 5th time the defiler gloves, I mean which guild does have so may Templers or defilers?Same in MMIS with every named. Enity will drop caster cuffs over and over again, cg to the transmuter. The Emnity will NEVER ever drop a set underarm for a Tank/Scout for instance. I mean all you can do is to force people which have the wrong class to log out, or dont invite them to the raid, but I want to raid with my frieds see them gear up and at least have an chance to see a set item drop for my class from EVERY named which is able to drop them. - Ekapia LVL 70 Brigand / Valor

KBern

05-11-2007, 10:40 AM

I am not sure what you are saying.The drops are itemized from the loot tables of the mobs you kill.Some mobs dont have certain classes loot on them.Are you asking for better randomizing of the CURRENT loot tables, or do you want all 24 classes set armor to have a chance of dropping from the same mob (ie all cuffs, all gloves, etc.)

Ranja

05-11-2007, 11:33 AM

Saurakk@Guk wrote: <blockquote>I am not sure what you are saying.The drops are itemized from the loot tables of the mobs you kill.Some mobs dont have certain classes loot on them.Are you asking for better randomizing of the CURRENT loot tables, or do you want all 24 classes set armor to have a chance of dropping from the same mob (ie all cuffs, all gloves, etc.)</blockquote> I highlighted the part I believe he is saying. And he does have a point. Some of the mobs dropping certain class items are really easy compared to some of the mobs that drop other class items. It would be nice if everytime we killed a named that dropped a set item, any one of us in the raid has a chance of getting their class item.

SourChikn

05-11-2007, 12:04 PM

cant randomize what the mobs dont drop...

KBern

05-11-2007, 12:32 PM

<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote>Saurakk@Guk wrote: <blockquote>I am not sure what you are saying.The drops are itemized from the loot tables of the mobs you kill.Some mobs dont have certain classes loot on them.Are you asking for better randomizing of the CURRENT loot tables, or do you want all 24 classes set armor to have a chance of dropping from the same mob (ie all cuffs, all gloves, etc.)</blockquote> I highlighted the part I believe he is saying. And he does have a point. Some of the mobs dropping certain class items are really easy compared to some of the mobs that drop other class items. It would be nice if everytime we killed a named that dropped a set item, any one of us in the raid has a chance of getting their class item. </blockquote>The main issue I see with that is that they do not put 24 items in most mobs loot tables. Most.You would also run into the problem of certain mobs not dropping any set armor, unless they had 2-3 cuff mobs, 2-3 glove mobs etc.People complain now about the drops when certain mobs only drop for 7-10 classes, can you imagine the complaints if the chances of your drop was even worse?The system is not perfect, but at least now if you go hit a certain mob, you can expect a smaller range of items to drop and have better odds at getting them. If they added all class loots to certain mobs, the odds would only get worse.

Echozar

05-11-2007, 01:18 PM

Ok in one sentence: Please let the rest of the nameds in EOF which drop set items drop them like Wuoshi or Mayong. 1 item for 1 slot for 1 class in the raid.

Noaani

05-11-2007, 02:17 PM

<cite>Echozar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok in one sentence: Please let the rest of the nameds in EOF which drop set items drop them like Wuoshi or Mayong. 1 item for 1 slot for 1 class in the raid. </blockquote>I'm very glad you dont represent all players in the game, because this is a [Removed for Content] stupid idea!Do you REALLY waht one mob dropping all 24 classes cuffs? with another dropping all 24 classes shoulders?I mean, REALLY?You do know, I assume, that if they did this, only one mob in the game would drop items for each slot, right?Think about how long its going to take your guild to get pants for everyone, and multiply that by at least 2, this is how long your guild can expect it to take to get everyones set cuffs (more than 2 times as long, as with a longer time fram you can expect a lot more duplicates).Is this REALLY what you want?I mean, REALLY?I am very glad you do not speak for the whole player base, and I am glad SoE is aware you do not speak for the whole player base, because that is some really stupid thinking up there.

Faelen

05-11-2007, 02:27 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Echozar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok in one sentence: Please let the rest of the nameds in EOF which drop set items drop them like Wuoshi or Mayong. 1 item for 1 slot for 1 class in the raid. </blockquote>I'm very glad you dont represent all players in the game, because this is a [I cannot control my vocabulary] stupid idea!Do you REALLY waht one mob dropping all 24 classes cuffs? with another dropping all 24 classes shoulders?I mean, REALLY?You do know, I assume, that if they did this, only one mob in the game would drop items for each slot, right?Think about how long its going to take your guild to get pants for everyone, and multiply that by at least 2, this is how long your guild can expect it to take to get everyones set cuffs (more than 2 times as long, as with a longer time fram you can expect a lot more duplicates).Is this REALLY what you want?I mean, REALLY?I am very glad you do not speak for the whole player base, and I am glad SoE is aware you do not speak for the whole player base, because that is some really stupid thinking up there. </blockquote> lol. I agree with Noaani. Take a look at Tarinax, I think he drops something like 17 items except that he drops 2 items from his loot table at a time. Ask any Ranger how hard it is to get Bazkul to drop! And you want mobs to have loot tables with 24 items on them and then only drop ONE of those items? Wow, thats some pretty crappy odds to actually see the piece you want. So... if odds are in your favor, you'd have to kill that mob 24 times to see YOUR piece. At one shot per week thats like 6 months of raiding to get your item!!!

KBern

05-11-2007, 02:32 PM

Judist

05-12-2007, 12:26 PM

Basic math no longer a requirement in school? The OP has a valid point. 24 set pieces on a name makes alot of sense, expecially if you've been raiding EoF since release. Lets take mobs who drop cuffs/bracers (yes I know these mobs drop other items, even set items for other slots).Enynti in MMIS drops sorcerer, summoner, enchanter cuffs. Othysis in FTH drops bard, crusader, cleric, shaman, druid cuffs.Treah in EH drops predator, rogue, warrior, brawler cuffs.How would having these 3 named drop cuffs for every class be worse than dividing it up like so? If your killing any one of these named alot more than another, you'll eventually be transmuting the majority of its drops.The OPs proposed change wouldnt be a 1 in 24 chance per week. Theres "multiple" mobs who drop items for the same slot, so in this case (of class cuffs/bracers) it would be 3 chances a week for cuffs. When you do the math its the same ratio, its more fair to classes who have pieces that only drop in EH, and no 1 named would become a mute farm.Many guilds wont see this a problem anytime soon, but remember we have all summer/fall to raid (RoK isnt coming out anytime soon). With many guild already seeing alot of items muted, eventually you will too. And someday instead of looking foward to killing Othysis each week, you will dread getting your 15th pair of shaman bracers when your predator classes need their bracers.On the down side, the OP's suggested change would mean non-class-specific loot (example Vampiric Axe) would be too hard to get with such large loot tables. And while it would prevent named from becoming osolete, it wouldnt guarentee your not gonna get a repeat/worthless drop.

Noaani

05-12-2007, 01:16 PM

Judist wrote: <blockquote>On the down side, the OP's suggested change would mean non-class-specific loot (example Vampiric Axe) would be too hard to get with such large loot tables. And while it would prevent named from becoming osolete, it wouldnt guarentee your not gonna get a repeat/worthless drop.</blockquote>This is the reason I said in my other post that if they changed it to be all 24 items on one mobs loot table, that would be the only place those items drop. If every mob in the game that 'could' drop a particular set piece had all 24 on their loot table, some of the best drops in EoF would never be seen (as a wizard, the best drops are anything I can equip that are not set armor [sans pants]).Take Treah Greenroot as an example (since it is a mob you named). Currently, if this mob is even up, rangers have an okish chance to get the chain forearms with +ranged crit and +ranged. If the proposed system (if it can even be called that) was to go in place, the same ranger would have to contend with 24 class cuffs, as opposed to 8, 24 class heads, as opposed to 2, and the other 4 non set gear items on this mobs loot table. So the chances of this item dropping (arguably the best item in that slot for rangers) goes from 1/15 to 1/53. Nice going there cowboy!On top of that, this is asking for a whole rewrite of the loot table of almost every instanced epic named in EoF. Thats a massive undertaking in itself. I mean, what if they forget to put one classes set on any mobs? (monks, they have no place in a raid as is...). The best idea is to look at what mob drops what class items, work out who needs what in your raid, and set it up so the class that needs an item is the most likely to have it drop. I mean, if your guild has the DPS for it, and your illusionists do not have cuffs, go up against Enynti without any summoners, sorcerers or coercers. The mob is still not going to be a challange if you have decient scouts (or DPS fighters and/or healers), and you are basically setting yourself up to get the drops you want.As you said, basic math.

Judist

05-12-2007, 02:58 PM

Some were complaining that the OPs suggestion would make it harder to get set pieces... it wouldnt. If you only want set pieces then the OP's suggestion is the way to go.As for me, I'm happy with the way it is now for the same reason you stated. Class gear is sokay, but I dont wanna raid only to get spiffy matching armor for everyone. Unless the class-set holding mobs dropped 1 set piece from a table of 24 and 1 generic loot, it wouldnt be a good idea.And having anything but boss mobs dropping 2 fabled is wrong, so it should stay as is now.

TerriBlades

05-12-2007, 07:59 PM

<cite>Judist wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some were complaining that the OPs suggestion would make it harder to get set pieces... it wouldnt. If you only want set pieces then the OP's suggestion is the way to go.As for me, I'm happy with the way it is now for the same reason you stated. Class gear is sokay, but I dont wanna raid only to get spiffy matching armor for everyone. Unless the class-set holding mobs dropped 1 set piece from a table of 24 and 1 generic loot, it wouldnt be a good idea.And having anything but boss mobs dropping 2 fabled is wrong, so it should stay as is now.</blockquote>Sorry Judist, but Im going to have to disagree with you. It would in fact make it harder to get your set pieces. As Faellen pointed out Faellen wrote:<blockquote> lol. I agree with Noaani. Take a look at Tarinax, I think he drops something like 17 items except that he drops 2 items from his loot table at a time. Ask any Ranger how hard it is to get Bazkul to drop! And you want mobs to have loot tables with 24 items on them and then only drop ONE of those items? Wow, thats some pretty crappy odds to actually see the piece you want. So... if odds are in your favor, you'd have to kill that mob 24 times to see YOUR piece. At one shot per week thats like 6 months of raiding to get your item!!! </blockquote> Tarinax has a fairly good sized loot table. 17 pieces. I know for a fact that my guild, whos killed that [Removed for Content] thing more times then I wish to count, has never seen Bazkul (the bow), a few weeks go we got our first Sheath off of him... Face it, the RNG sucks, but it is what it is. Changing a mob, or several mobs to have larger loot tables, will only increase your chances of not seeing that piece. Because now, instead of checking to see if 7-8 classes on the loot table are in the raid, and roll on that... you more then double the odds against if its rolling against 20-24 classes.

Judist

05-13-2007, 01:54 AM

<cite>TerriBlades wrote:</cite><blockquote>Changing a mob, or several mobs to have larger loot tables, will only increase your chances of not seeing that piece. Because now, instead of checking to see if 7-8 classes on the loot table are in the raid, and roll on that... you more then double the odds against if its rolling against 20-24 classes. </blockquote> If only 1 mob had all 24 pieces then yes. But remember, it would be more like 3 mobs in EoF with 24 pieces for the slot. So if you raid all three zones once a week then, 3/24 = 1/8 = Same thing.But the change wouldnt matter anyways because the RNG is broken like you said. In MMIS alone, Enynti has dropped atleast 2 darkpendants in a row (might of been 3), 2 kindred cloaks in a row from Viswin, 2 troub hats in a row from tactician and 2 swashy arms from V.K if im not mistaken. That makes for nearly an identical run to the week before which is like a 1 in 10,000 chance.I still wouldnt want a change tho, and I doubt many would.Small tables makes it easier for other types of loot to drop which only come from only 1 mob. It's already hard enuf to get a Vampiric Axe, Rapier of Darkness or a Band of Darkness. The side effect is eventually your gonna mute 80-90% of a loot table when only a few of your classes have their pieces from a specific mob.Unless your in a big guild or have plenty of alts. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

kenm

05-13-2007, 04:27 AM

This game would be so much better if SOE would simply fix the random number generator, because the problem is in no way limited to set items, it's just more obvious than ever when only one class in the entire game can use an item. I've seen 3 pairs of SK shoulders drop, never a pair of zerker ones. (Zerker shoulders suck, throw me a bone here SOE!) I've seen three pairs of SK forearms drop off of Othysis in four runs. (Why so much SK crap?!) I've seen Malkonis drop a pair of SK boots two runs in a row. (What's with shadowknight crap?!) One night I've seen both SK set pieces drop in FTH and rot. (Great, both shadowknight crap in one run! Awesome RNG.) Another night I've seen both mystic set pieces drop in FTH and go to an alt. (Yes, in a single night an alt has gotten more set gear than I have since EoF launched. Woot.) I've seen both Cheroon and Viswin drop necro gloves in the same run, and I've still never seen a pair of zerker ones. (What's up with zones dropping two set pieces for the exact same class?) I'm pretty sure I've seen the tactician drop that crappy symbol two weeks in a row. (Granted this is minor, but he's got 13 items on his loot table and two weeks in a row he gives us basically the worst piece of crap ever? Crappy odds.) Mayong dropped a Coercer vest two weeks in a row. (Did I mention the first time we got the coercer vest it was a server discovery? Absolutely none on the server and viola, two in two weeks. Go figure.) I've seen Zylphax drop like everything on his loot table 2-4 times except the buckler, which I've seen drop once and only very recently. (Why must SOE hate me so?!) Herald of Wuoshi dropped brigand helmets two weeks in a row. (And then we got kicked out of EH the next two weeks before killing gardener. Unrelated, but still neat.) I've seen Chel'drak drop the dagger of arcane rite twice in one chest, and one of them again on two other occasions.... in about a month. I've seen the shard drop once in the entire time I've been killing him, checking Xanadu I see I've also absolutely never seen Earthen Boots of the Codex drop. (I know the mage dagger is one of his better drops and all, but I hate mages, they need to die. I still use a crappy weapon from HoS, gah.) I've seen Tender drop the crappy [I cannot control my vocabulary] cloth pants two weeks in a row. (My issue with this one is mainly because the pants suck. Can't they just be removed from his loot table altogether? >.> ) And for KoS fun: I can't even begin to count the number of times I've seen Fitzpitzle drop the leather boots, pride's edge, or the doll. I've seen a hover platform drop once. I also can't recall ever seeing a ring of supremacy drop. I'm fairly sure I've never seen Yitzik drop the Ascendant, although maybe he did once. I know for a fact that I've never seen Doomrage Sabatons drop in god knows how many clearings of lab. Not that I want them, but sheesh. I've seen Uncaged Alzid drop around 5 necro helmets, three of the nemesis hoods, and three nightchord ones... in streaks. I've seen the doomrage one drop once. I always recall seeing relic chain gloves dropping nearly twice as frequently as any other relic mold in all of KoS, while leather was incredibly rare. I've seen Tarinax's Spine drop either three or four weeks in a row, I've still never seem him drop the plate boots. I've seen the Shadow Axe drop either four or five weeks in a row. I've seen the Fists of Bashing drop so many freaking times, and if it doesn't it's always the bangle of the overlord. I don't think I've ever seen the other three items listed on Xanadu as being on the Overlord's loot table. Although I suppose I'm glad I've never seen a hate proccing two hander drop. Honestly I could go on and on about crap like this. I don't except a random number generator to evenly distribute loot around, but some of this is flat out ridiculous. It's completely amazing that so many people have won the goblin lottery for instance. At any rate, I'd expect having a few oddities, a few streaks, but practically every mob in the game has had some sort of weird streak or oddity in all the time's I've killed them. In my case, mobs loved dropping shadowknight set pieces up the [I cannot control my vocabulary] until SOE did their "fix", which did nothing to fix the RNG. Now it's just shifted to dropping pretty much any set pieces people already have, forcing over 50% of the loot to get transmuted. You've gotta some really crappy odds to have all that happen, and from the sound of it other people have even worse luck than I with loot. Simply fix the RNG to be less predictable and there'd be no need to screw with loot tables on mobs. =

Noaani

05-13-2007, 06:47 AM

Judist wrote: <blockquote>If only 1 mob had all 24 pieces then yes. But remember, it would be more like 3 mobs in EoF with 24 pieces for the slot.</blockquote>And this, right here, is another case of players asking Devs for /easy mode.No thanks. Please do not cheapen the raiding accomplishments of me and my guild, as well as hundreds of other guilds in the game, just because YOU want your loot made even easier than it is now.If you want it that easy, seriously, go play WoW.If they put every piece of class armor for a particular slot on to one mob, thats fine. If you want more than that, maybe you should ask the Devs to beta buff you to 70/70/100/350 and give you a full set of class armor.Either come right out with it and ask for /easy mode or get in and do the work for the drops.

Noaani

05-13-2007, 06:50 AM

Kenman@Najena wrote: <blockquote>And for KoS fun: I can't even begin to count the number of times I've seen Fitzpitzle drop the leather boots, pride's edge, or the doll. I've seen a hover platform drop once. I also can't recall ever seeing a ring of supremacy drop. </blockquote>I saw my first ever Ring of Supremacy drop 3 weeks ago. I went all in and got it. We have had 2 more drop since then.Still waiting on seeing my first ever Breath of the Destroyer or Insulated Cuffs drop too...

Judist

05-13-2007, 12:31 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>Judist wrote: <blockquote>If only 1 mob had all 24 pieces then yes. But remember, it would be more like 3 mobs in EoF with 24 pieces for the slot.</blockquote>And this, right here, is another case of players asking Devs for /easy mode.No thanks. Please do not cheapen the raiding accomplishments of me and my guild, as well as hundreds of other guilds in the game, just because YOU want your loot made even easier than it is now.If you want it that easy, seriously, go play WoW.If they put every piece of class armor for a particular slot on to one mob, thats fine. If you want more than that, maybe you should ask the Devs to beta buff you to 70/70/100/350 and give you a full set of class armor.Either come right out with it and ask for /easy mode or get in and do the work for the drops.</blockquote> Not counting Wushi or Mayong, there are already 13 mobs in game who drop set pieces, most (if not all) of these 13 mobs drop pieces for 2 different slots instead of just 1 slot. Add in the fact that a few of these 13 are boss mobs who drop double and you can see its already /easy mode.The OP asked for a shift in loot, nothing to cheapen your raid experience, something to keep the easy mobs from becoming mute farms.Either your reply was not thought out, or maybe you didnt know so many mobs drop set pieces. And I'll say it again anyways, I personally dont care for a loot shift because it will cause tables to grow as a side effect. This is bad unless you only want set gear, which I doubt any do.The wow /easy mode beta buff comment was quite funny tho. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Vorlak

05-13-2007, 03:37 PM

/shrug since the change to allow what drops based on whats in the raid, I cant complain i went from 0 items to 4 in under two weeks.

KBern

05-14-2007, 11:09 AM

<cite>Judist wrote:</cite><blockquote>Basic math no longer a requirement in school? The OP has a valid point. 24 set pieces on a name makes alot of sense, expecially if you've been raiding EoF since release. Lets take mobs who drop cuffs/bracers (yes I know these mobs drop other items, even set items for other slots).Enynti in MMIS drops sorcerer, summoner, enchanter cuffs. Othysis in FTH drops bard, crusader, cleric, shaman, druid cuffs.Treah in EH drops predator, rogue, warrior, brawler cuffs.How would having these 3 named drop cuffs for every class be worse than dividing it up like so? If your killing any one of these named alot more than another, you'll eventually be transmuting the majority of its drops.The OPs proposed change wouldnt be a 1 in 24 chance per week. Theres "multiple" mobs who drop items for the same slot, so in this case (of class cuffs/bracers) it would be 3 chances a week for cuffs. When you do the math its the same ratio, its more fair to classes who have pieces that only drop in EH, and no 1 named would become a mute farm.Many guilds wont see this a problem anytime soon, but remember we have all summer/fall to raid (RoK isnt coming out anytime soon). With many guild already seeing alot of items muted, eventually you will too. And someday instead of looking foward to killing Othysis each week, you will dread getting your 15th pair of shaman bracers when your predator classes need their bracers.On the down side, the OP's suggested change would mean non-class-specific loot (example Vampiric Axe) would be too hard to get with such large loot tables. And while it would prevent named from becoming osolete, it wouldnt guarentee your not gonna get a repeat/worthless drop.</blockquote>It is not just the ratio that makes it more difficult....you are right in that regard, the basic odds are the same.BUT if you had 1:24 chance per mob you cannot reduce those odds down by much if you exchanged some classes in and out of the raid.Some guilds cannot do this, some can.However if you 1:8 chance, and actually camp out some of the players of classes that you dont need, you can increase your chance of getting the loots you want to better odds with the recent drop changes.

Noaani

05-14-2007, 11:50 AM

Judist wrote: <blockquote>The OP asked for a shift in loot, nothing to cheapen your raid experience, something to keep the easy mobs from becoming mute farms.</blockquote>I hate to say it, but this statement and your idea of changing loot tables are mutually exclusive. The simple act of changing the loot tables of mobs that anyone can walk up to and kill with 24 random people is, by defination, /easy mode. This is cheapening the accomplishments of my guild, and every other guild that has been killing these mobs for months. It makes loot some loot easier to get, while making other loot near much much harder to get.All up, I think the OP is complaining because his guild is killing only able to kill a few mobs in FTH, and all the classes that have drops on those loot tables have their set gear. I would then hazard a guess that he is NOT one of those classes, and his guild is not capable/willing to kill mobs in MMiS/EH. The fact that someone in a guild like this is asking for a change also says to me that such a change is cheapening the accomplishments of many guilds.Also, there are only 2 mobs in the game that have a chance of dropping 2 sets of class set gear per kill, Wuoshi and Mayong. Malkonis D'Morte drops 2 items, but only 1 piece of set gear per kill.The way it is now, every raid has the option to increase their chances of a given piece of loot dropping. If your guild is missing templar cuffs, it IS possable to kill Othysis with no healers other than templars, no bards and no crusaders. Its not even making it hard if you have some decient DPS and a few necros to res people... and should the RNG roll up a set item, you are guarenteed to get templar cuffs (same can be said for any healer, bards and crusaders are screwed in this particular example however). Enyenti can be killed with only 1 type of mage, should you want a particular mage cuff.Should the suggested change go ahead (which it wont) this option, the ability for a guild to increase its chance at a particular piece of loot dropping, will be taken away from those smart enough, and with the resources to take advantage of an in game mechanic that has been described in detail by devs.

Judist

05-14-2007, 05:41 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>Judist wrote: <blockquote>The OP asked for a shift in loot, nothing to cheapen your raid experience, something to keep the easy mobs from becoming mute farms.</blockquote>I hate to say it, but this statement and your idea of changing loot tables are mutually exclusive. The simple act of changing the loot tables of mobs that anyone can walk up to and kill with 24 random people is, by defination, /easy mode. This is cheapening the accomplishments of my guild, and every other guild that has been killing these mobs for months. It makes loot some loot easier to get, while making other loot near much much harder to get.Huh? What? Get off this easy mode trip. Cheap is YOUR suggestion below. Balanced raids are smart, and no one should be left out because YOU want to increase a drop %. If you wanna deny players a slot on a raid so you can get gear thats fine, but we never will.All up, I think the OP is complaining because his guild is killing only able to kill a few mobs in FTH, and all the classes that have drops on those loot tables have their set gear. I would then hazard a guess that he is NOT one of those classes, and his guild is not capable/willing to kill mobs in MMiS/EH. The fact that someone in a guild like this is asking for a change also says to me that such a change is cheapening the accomplishments of many guilds.Re-read the OP's post about what theyre killing and dont assume its a lie.The way it is now, every raid has the option to increase their chances of a given piece of loot dropping. If your guild is missing templar cuffs, it IS possable to kill Othysis with no healers other than templars, no bards and no crusaders. Its not even making it hard if you have some decient DPS and a few necros to res people... and should the RNG roll up a set item, you are guarenteed to get templar cuffs (same can be said for any healer, bards and crusaders are screwed in this particular example however). Enyenti can be killed with only 1 type of mage, should you want a particular mage cuff.This is the definition of cheapening a raid experience. If anyone wants /easymode please use this tactic to gear up asap. And once youve sucked up everything in FTH and MMIS I hope EH can keep you happy all summer long until the next expansion.Should the suggested change go ahead (which it wont) this option, the ability for a guild to increase its chance at a particular piece of loot dropping, will be taken away from those smart enough, and with the resources to take advantage of an in game mechanic that has been described in detail by devs.The mechanic you fail to comment on is the fact that very soon alot of guilds (not just the hardcore guilds) will be transmuting 80-90% of a mobs loot tables.</blockquote>

Noaani

05-14-2007, 05:54 PM

Interesting theory there, adding every classes set armor to multiple mobs is not making things easier, but increasing your guilds chances at loot they actually want by using current in game mechanics is... that makes sence!If there are three mobs in the game that can drop wizard cuffs, and these mobs only drop cuffs of classes that are present, wizard cuffs will be common. The same can be said for every piece of class armor. If you put items on loot tables of more mobs, it makes the drops easier to get. This is basic common math, and something anyone with a 3rd grade education should understand.This is not something I (nor hundreds of others who raid but no longer use these forums) want for this game. This is not something that is worth developer time to implement. Is there any actual reason for them to do this except for guilds that can kill in FTH but not EH? Do those guilds deserve to have all the loot that this would bring them?Seriously!Edit: yeah, i know what guild the OP is in, I know what they are and are not able to kill. I also know what guild you are in, and what you are and are not able to kill, which makes me more understanding of why you are continuing this tirade and he is not.RotEW?Seriously!

Judist

05-15-2007, 04:11 AM

So the basis of argument is you do EH and the OP and I dont. Why didnt you just say so?If they reorganized loot (which I'm glad they wont), they could have slots drop only in EH for all I care. That solves your "we do EH" argument and we wont get bard hats or druid boots week after week. We both win. Heck, it sounds fair to me if those who raid FTH and MMIS are entitled to the 3 set bonus, those who do EH get a 5 set bonus, and those who can kill it all get a 7 piece bonus. But fair or not thats not even the argument here...A 3rd grade education might teach you that increasing the amount of set-pieces on a mob would lessen the chance of other drops. This means in the long run you get set-pieces more and other drops less (this is bad imo). This is called fractions. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You also have less chance of getting the same drops week after week (when RNG isnt broken) which in turn allows for an even drop rate over time. This is called probability. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Your overthinking a simple mechanic in an attempt to find a loophole in a basic math argument. You wont find a loop hole, run the numbers, windows comes with a free calculator. If you raid with the same makeup (even if your heavy in a class) each player has the same % chance to get a slot item.Of course this is all moot when the RNG dosent seem to work anyways.I'll go ahead and let you know what our guild raids. Everything but Mayong/Contested/EH. Why am I continuing to post here? Because someone talking about 3rd grade educations, WoW, /easymode and Dev Beta buffs stuck their head in this thread before understanding the argument... ...an argument you have for the 4th time failed to address. Mobs in FTH and MMIS are becoming mute farms with no fix in sight.P.S. I correct myself, you did suggest a short-term fix. Stack raids (so we can hasten the problem), nice.

Echozar

05-15-2007, 04:47 AM

noanni: Why discuss with you? All you do is attacking me my guild or other posters. (Goto WoW, ask for a beta buffer, learn some math, ask for easy mode, OP is complaining because he is not able to clear FTH .... )All I said was that was to randomize the drops, not give them away like cookies. You dont like that (and like you said all other raiders dont like it, because you´re speaking for them), no problem for me. I´ll not quit raiding, or leave eq2. I´ll just play on get pain in my a... everytime a set item get transmutet, but with the good feeling that you and your "accomplishments" are satisfied with this system.Lets speak again in 2 month when 90% of your set items drops get trasmutet or handled to a twink about your accomplishments, while you´re waiting for the last drop of your set items on the 3rd floor of EH. Would be nice to know how you like raiding FTH and MMIS then. - Ekapia LVL 70 Brigand / ValorEdit: Who said that we´re not raiding EH? So far we´ve cleared all raidzone but that dont makes me say: "yeah, uba uba bla bla... system is good bla bla...."

SinIsLaw

05-15-2007, 06:20 AM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>The way it is now, every raid has the option to increase their chances of a given piece of loot dropping. If your guild is missing templar cuffs, it IS possable to kill Othysis with no healers other than templars, no bards and no crusaders. Its not even making it hard if you have some decient DPS and a few necros to res people... and should the RNG roll up a set item, you are guarenteed to get templar cuffs (same can be said for any healer, bards and crusaders are screwed in this particular example however). Enyenti can be killed with only 1 type of mage, should you want a particular mage cuff.</blockquote> You are wrong!! SoE said they have placed a mechanism into the game where they will prevent such senario. - I read somewhere else a quite good description on this change regarding to class loot was implemented ( in short Item are rolled as normal, if class is not present the roll is done once again) - So there are still some chances to see loot of a class which is not present! The way i see it the RNG is way off, like Kenman posted earlier, their guild kept seeing SK loot over and over, for us it was Monk stuff before the class change drop, now we see the same class loot over and over! 2 weeks in a row Othisis Defiler bracer, Malkonis zerker boots & templar gloves! Herald of wushi in the last 5 weeks 1x cunning, 2x wayward, 2x cunning ... our guilds alt assasins got the BP, yet we haven't seen zerker, guard, sk or brigand yet ... This change has not fixed anything, it only delayed a problem which is still in game! And as it stands now, Key classes and these alts will be [Removed for Content] out far before mains how alter/ sit raids will wait even longer for their stuff ... There is no easy way to solve this, having molds would possible speed up things to much - not that it really matters anymore with RoK coming out in 6 month, making most gear usless! But the current way the game works, is not right either - far to much stuff get's transmute as their drop rate seems to be more common then others ....

Triste-Lune

05-15-2007, 10:52 AM

I dont give a flyin ratass where class armor drop. i just want to see more than 2 items from the mobs loot table. we have FTH IS and half of EH on farm status but we are always getting the exact same loot every week. FIX THE GODFORSAKEN RANDOMNESS OF YOURS.

Groma

05-15-2007, 12:27 PM

I'm on board for more randomization, nothing like killing malkonis d'morte and having 2 templar gloves drop, when both of our templars have had them for weeks.

Noaani

05-15-2007, 01:51 PM

<cite>SinIsLaw wrote:</cite><blockquote> You are wrong!! SoE said they have placed a mechanism into the game where they will prevent such senario. - I read somewhere else a quite good description on this change regarding to class loot was implemented ( in short Item are rolled as normal, if class is not present the roll is done once again) - So there are still some chances to see loot of a class which is not present! </blockquote>Yeah, i know that, but trying to explain that to the people in this thread would have been pointless and futile. And besides, if you pulled 9 items from a loot tabled that has a total of 15 items, the chances of you getting the one you want are still much higher.The other thing to remember is that the RNG (for loot at least) is about to undergo an overhaul. Until this change sets in, no one can really comment on how the new system is working out for them.Asking for a change now is rather stupid when a change is in the works, even if it is not hte one these people seem to think they want.

TerriBlades

05-16-2007, 12:44 AM

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm on board for more randomization, nothing like killing malkonis d'morte and having 2 templar gloves drop, when both of our templars have had them for weeks. </blockquote>While I will agree that the above does suck. This has been a long standing issue with the RNG, not an issue with the way loot checks now. They said that class set pieces drops would check for classes in raid before dropping the set piece for that class. They never said anything about checking to see if the class(es) had that set piece already. Slightly off topic. Theres really only one set piece that I want, and maybe 2 other pieces I would wear over my current gear, but have better items in mind for those slots as well. The fact that I only have 1 set piece doesnt bother me in the least, because I dont wear them anyways, and that pretty much how I feel about the rest of the ranger set gear. Its just lacking imo.