Bestestestest Shaman?

[Broe]

Ok, just a quick question that i need answered if anyone knows it. Which is a better healer? Mystic or Defiler, and of course its for end game t7 raiding.

[e4rayd2]

<p>Re-define? Best healer in what category?</p><p>DPS: Mystic (Mystic best dueling class if 100AA spec dps, adorned and geared right)</p><p>Buffs: Defiler (Adds the most HP's to a MT)</p><p>De-buffs: Mystic</p><p>Healing Capability: Draw</p><p>Take your pick </p>

[Greggthegrmreapr]

<p>supposedly defilers make better MT group shamans.  I have yet to see it, but thats because I'm on PvP, and we don't get defilers in Qeynos.</p><p>Spiritual circle beats the snot out of our heal pet. </p>

[e4rayd2]

<p>I'm the MT in my guild and I prefer having a Defiler/Templar/Druid combo in my group. I like seeing my HPs above 14.4k.</p><p>I love playing my mystic tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Sandain666]

<p>If your are strictly concerned with end game raiding most raiding guilds want a Defiler in group because they give raw HP to the tank.  But mystics are also highly sought after in raids due to our debuffs. </p>

[Zeliedog]

The skill and spell level of your shaman matters much more than defiler vs. mystic.  Both have strengths; defilers have the advantages already mentioned, but mystics have Oberon, which is a group-only regenerating ward that is huge if it is Master I and its enhance AA is maxed.  IMO any raiding mystic should also have Ancestry, which increases the trigger of all procs on a single (in-group) ally by 3%.  This is great on zerkers, if your MT is a zerker, or can also be used on the templar for stoneskin.  But, main point is, having upgraded spells and a shaman who is properly speced and knows their class is what matters.

[Greggthegrmreapr]

<p>Put ancestry on a dirge in MT group with luck of the dirge, and blessings, Stoneskin at M1 is 21%  well worth the dirge getting it just for that.  anytime I'm grouped with a dirge for anything they get ancestry</p>

[knightofround]

The nice thing about EQ2 is that the way encounters are designed, its best to have one of every class along. That being said, some classes stack better than others. Both a Mystic and a Defiler are desirable in a raid setting, although Defilers tend to be more sought after because 1. their buffs are better for a MT group 2. they are much less common than Mystics. Out of curiousity...what good debuffs do Mystics have? I know as a mastered defiler AA specced into our debuff line, I have: 1. Our basic DD spell. Reduces poision & disease by 944 in addition to 500-600 nuke. 2s cast, 3s recast, 10s duration. 2. Malignacy, -48 all stats. Largely worthless. 1.3s cast, 13.3 recast, 1min duration. (AA enhanced) 3. Abhorent Seal, -76 STR, AGI, WIS. Largely worthless. 1.3s cast, infinite recast, can only be maintained on one mob. (AA enhanced) 4. Abasement. -27% attack speed, -19% dps. 1s cast, 6s recast, 36% harder to resist. Our bread and butter debuff. (AA enhanced) 5. Umbral Trap. -16.5% dps. 1.3s cast, 1m recast, 31% harder to resist. Our bloodlines spell. (AA enhanced) 6. Fulginous Dominion. -13% attack speed plus about 1k total damage DoT over 16s. 15s recast. 33% harder to resist. 7. Putrefy. -126 WIS plus about 1.2k total damage DoT over 24s. 6s recast. 33% harder to resist. 8. Bane of Protection. Places proc on enemy that causes them to ward, on average, their target by 1400 points. This can proc on AE attacks, resulting in massively higher amounts. 1min duration, 2s cast, 9s recast, 21% harder to resist. 9. Caligurlous Corruption. Only ad3, but decreases poison/disease mit of encounter by 840 and deals on average 800 total damage DoT to each member of the encounter over 18s. 10. Tendrils of Horror. Places a proc on a group member. If the group member is damaged, there is a 13% chance they will place a -27% attack speed, -38% dps debuff on their attacker. This is our best debuff. Does not require concentration, but can only be maintained on one ally at a time. (M2 spell selection and AA enhanced) 11. Dire Invective. Places a proc on a group member. Gives them a 1.4k total damage DoT proc over 1 min, as well as places an impairment that deals a mob that damages them every time they use power. (damage=80% of power cost) 12. Hexation, an EoF AA ability that increases the resistability of the opponent's spells. The spell itself is easy to resist though, so its hardly worth it. I'm curious to see how the Mystics match up. I'm looking thru the Mystic spell list I don't see anything that shouts "this is an awesome debuff" to me. The green AE debuffs are kinda nice; but honestly for raids single-target debuffing is far more important. What are the numbers on slothful spirit, shrieking haze, and lamenting soul at M1? Do you get any good debuffs on your EoF tree?<a href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/ability.html?eq2ability=2539" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"> </a>

[Eugam]

<cite>knightofround wrote:</cite><blockquote> I'm curious to see how the Mystics match up. I'm looking thru the Mystic spell list I don't see anything that shouts "this is an awesome debuff" to me. The green AE debuffs are kinda nice; but honestly for raids single-target debuffing is far more important. What are the numbers on slothful spirit, shrieking haze, and lamenting soul at M1? Do you get any good debuffs on your EoF tree?<a href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/ability.html?eq2ability=2539" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"> </a></blockquote>The green AE is "Wail of the Ancients".M1 =  -128 STA, 1088 debuff on poison, disease and heat/cold is nice enough. It lasts 1 min 22 secs and increases the damage of any warlock, necro, conjy or wizzy. Cast time is 2 secs, recast is 30 seconds. On a long fight i have to cast it maybe 3 times. Thats ok and still powerefficient. No matter if ST or group encounter. Only this debuff is, depending on raid setup, a huge DPS bringer. The more mages, the more it does. I dont have the numbers of the other spells atm. But i honestly think a mystic is almost (not quite but almost) on par with the defiler.

[e4rayd2]

<p>Defiler de-buffs are single target limits them vs. encounters with sub-bosses.</p><p>Mystics de-buffs have 2 AoE debuffs, Lethargy and Wail of the Ancients. Plus these stack with our single target debuffs.</p><p>How do I know? I double box and I dueled my own mystic and watched all de-buffs land and stack on each other.</p><p>Umbral trap 16.5 + Lamenting Soul 39 = minus 45.5 dps</p><p>Shrieking Haze 27 + Lethargy 26 = minus 53 attack speed </p><p>Edilon -100 str/sta + Wail of the Ancients -100 sta/-1088 resistances = minus 200 sta 100 str and 1088 debuffs on resistances</p><p>They didn't give us any enhance de-buffs because we would be overpowered. They gave us dps line on EoF tree, 0.5 casting times on 4 offensive spells with fairly quick recast times. I eat swashies and beserkers up =P</p><p>Don't get me wrong I still love Defilers in my MT group but Mystic rules on de-buffs over Defilers.</p>

[Munter78]

Sarev@The Bazaar wrote: <blockquote><p>Re-define? Best healer in what category?</p><p>DPS: Mystic (Mystic best dueling class if 100AA spec dps, adorned and geared right)</p><p>Buffs: Defiler (Adds the most HP's to a MT)</p><p>De-buffs: Mystic</p><p>Healing Capability: Draw</p><p>Take your pick </p></blockquote><p>Defiler can maintain 1200hps, and yes, Ive seen this happen on a fight over 7 minutes long.  Spiritual Circle owns....</p><p>Mystic, well...cant ae heal to save its life, nor do we have Soul ward....Defiler owns a mystic in heals.  </p>

[Greggthegrmreapr]

<p>Mystics can debuff a mobs attack speed by more than half and its attack damage by close to that.</p><p>Wail of the Ancients: (Master 1)  128 Sta debuff and massive Nox Elemental resist debuff.  (This spell is wonderful in group or raid PvP)</p><p>Lethargy: (Master 1) Decreases the attack speed of the encounter by 26.</p><p>Shrieking Haze: (Master 1) Decrease the attack speed of the target by 27.</p><p>Lamenting Soul: (Master 1)  Decreases the targets Attack Damage by 39.</p><p>Eidolon: (Master 1) Decreases the targets STR and STA by 100.</p><p>Umbral Trap (Adept 3) Decreases the targets attack speed by 16.9</p><p>There is also the AA ability that I used to have called Crippling Bash.  When used, it was a shield bash where it would put an effect on the target and if you or your dog hit it within the next few seconds it would have all its resists lowered by another 988 or something (been a long time since I had this ability so do not recall the exact stats.  Defilers can get it as well).</p><p>Mystics may not heal as much as defilers, but we can stop the damage before it ever happens better than anyone.</p><p>As far as the comment about mystic debuffs stacking.  They show the icon of 2 instances of the spell on the mob, but the effect will not stack.  Its just like having a group with 2 mystics.  You will have 2 icons showing for our buffs up, but they won't have the effect.</p>

[SonnyA]

<p>There's a cap on debuffing. Max 50 haste and 50 dps. So you can't debuff more than half its dps.</p><p>So nerf defilers!! no wait. Boost mystics instead.</p>

[dieschatten]

Mus Du abschätzen vom Mob. Bolster ist ein netter spell der dich kurz gut da stehen läßt. Als gegen part haste den Soulward der aber halt sehr gefährlich für den Schänder ist. Debuffen können sie recht gleich.

[e4rayd2]

<p>Soul ward is a pretty nice save azz spell. I must admit I would have to give advantage healing to defilers.</p><p>But last night in Freethinkers our defiler was on break and I decided to put a mystic in his place and he rocked. We cleared it NP.</p><p>Big key was EoF line Ancient Ancestry. I had him put it on the Templar and his stoneskin buff went up from 16% to 19% and it was going off like crazy.</p><p>He may not have given me my 14,000+ hit points but he did a great job in the zone. Goes to show is all about skillz.</p>

[Munter78]

any shaman should be able to MT group FTH though, place one in IS for the duo sk-type mobs by Mayongs room...and then compare that to the healing that a defiler would do.  The difference is about 700hps, which is like adding another healer into the raid just to make up for the mystic...even more.

[e4rayd2]

<p>Question is which is the best shaman end game raiding.</p><p>Which all depends on your play style.</p><p>Defilers mainly heal and debuff during a raid = very dull (especially clearing trash)</p><p>Mystic (DPS type) heal, debuff and can dps during a raid = never dull (especially clearing trash)</p><p>I choose Mystic =P</p>

[Eepop]

Really the best answer would be: Whichever your raid force needs. If your raid force already has a defiler, a mystic is better. If your raid force already has a mystic, a defiler is better. If your raid force already has a mystic and a defiler, but is missing a different type of healer, play the other kind of healer. If your raid force already has one of each healer, if you really want to be a healer, I'd say Mystic.  But considering a DPS class would probably benefit the raid force more. If however you are leveling a character without knowing what raid force you will be working with, you have to consider a few things: 1) How important is being in the MT group to you?  If its important, Defiler. 2) What does your server need?  Post on your server board asking which seems to be in more demand.

[iduckie]

<p>Why do you think Defiler is better then Mystic or Mystic is better then Defiler?</p><p>They both have awesome buffs, heals, debuffs and I'm in love with both of there wards!</p><p>It's a matter of personal option really.. lol</p>

[Sandain666]

Anyone know what the original poster decided to go with?

[Jadewolf]

<p>Both Mystics and Defilers are great, but when you are talking about the MT group I agree that the best shaman should be in there.  It has more to do with quick reaction times and well timed cures/heals than raw hps or buffs.</p><p>My guild has great healers and in any given fight you can succeed with either a defiler or a mystic in the MT group.  That being said, Mystics have oberon, ancestry, avatar and buff more power on the MT than defilers. Also, don't forget defilers require health in order to actually heal. </p><p>There are, of course, advantages to the defiler as well. But in the end both are equally capable of MT healing even the hardest encounters as I have done so on a mystic for Mayong and Wuoshi and everything in between.</p><p>I will say this, one of the advantages of defilers is canni... To make up for my lack of canni I have acquired many pieces of power proccing gear that proc both off my hostile casts and my healing spells.  This has helped my power pool on fights tremendously and I see the defilers running low on power before I do even with full power regen groups.  I have also seen defilers use poorly timed canni and canni'd themselves to death from AE.  </p><p> It's all about being the best shaman you can be and bringing everything you got !!</p>