New Mount, Game Design & the Price of Tea in China

[Dutchgrrl]

<p>The following post contains the opinion of the author.  It is not an official anything, it does not speak for SOE, and I am pretty sure some of you will not like it.  You have been warned...</p><p>88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888</p><p>A new mount was added to the game recently - and people are happy.  I know I am happy.  I have not actually gone and done the quest for the mount, but I will get around to it eventually.  The reason that I have not gone and done the quest yet is because I am still completing the content in the base game and DoF as well as Splitpaw and Bloodlines.  The reason that I am completing the content in those areas instead of, say, moving on to the newer areas is because they are the game, and jumping to the new areas without finishing them seems to me to be... Well... Dumb.</p><p>Today I was hanging out near the docks in Qeynos waiting for some of my guildies when a group came past and stopped, and one of them said "Where did you get that title?"</p><p>The title that she asked me about is an arena title - the Gladiator - and I told her that.  This is what she said to me:</p><p>"Arena?  What is that?"</p><p>She knows where carpet to the Sinking Sands are, has been to the DoF zones including Maj'Dul, but none of the people in her party knew what the arena was or how it worked let alone that you could get pets and titles - and trophys(!) there.  I mentioned all of that to them, and they thanked me.  Then they asked what kind of elf I was - I was wearing the vampire illusion you see.  I told them that it was the illusion charm from Bloodlines.  You can probably see where this is going, right?</p><p>She told me that they had done the Bloodlines quests, did the ring thing, went in and killed the vamps, and collected the collection items, and they never got an illusion charm.  I asked her if they did the 11 quests that you get from the good or bad camps near the waterfall.</p><p>"What are you talking about?" she asked.</p><p>So I explained to them that there were more than just the quests that come from examining the ring...</p><p>After just a few questions I discovered that none of her group has actually done the content in any one area before moving on to a new area/expansion.  Mostly it seems they hit the high points - the HQ's, the quests and areas that drop specifically desireable items, and some of them did collections.  It wasn't so much that they were not interested in the other content, it was that they either didn't know that there was a lot more to do, or - and this one applied to most of them - they followed whatever their guild and/or group was doing, which generally meant jumping all over the place for this or that end.</p><p>Lately there have been people vocal on the boards about how they are disappointed with how easy it is to get the new mount, though I wonder if they understand that the reality is that it was easy for THEM, not easy for all.  Most of the people who posted complaints, when I looked at their toons page, appear to be the sort that level as fast as they can, and who leverage their guild or other toons for gear, weapons, plat and etc.  IOW these are the same sort of people who do not do all of the content in an area before moving on to the next area.  Content that is rich, well crafted and entertaining.</p><p>They don't bother doing most of that content because it is not in the path that they are following, which may be to cap their toon so that they can raid, or maybe so that they can do something else.  Whatever their plan, they are near or at it, and now they are upset because the mount quest was not set up as end-game content.  Tunnel vision does not begin to describe the reality for some of these people.</p><p>What I have to ask, when I encounter this sort of thing, is "Why do you play the game?"  I don't mean how did you learn about it, or what class you play.  I mean why do you bother playing at all if it is so disappointing to you?  Is there no other game or activity that you could do that would be more satisfying?  I am not saying that you should not play, and I am not saying that you do not have a right to an opinion - please understand that.  No, I am saying something completely different.</p><p>I am saying - this game was not created to satisfy YOU.  This game is not crafted to meet YOUR wants, YOUR expectations.  Obviously the vast majority of players like what they have here - they stay don't they?  You know that the game is not about YOU, right?  The reason I am asking is that most of the people that are constantly complaining do it in a voice that pretty much spells out their self-importance.  After all they are letting the rest of us know that they are not happy, which I can only assume means that they think we should care.  Why else would they bother posting their discontent?</p><p>I don't have the answers to the questions that I asked, and really if you consider it they are rhetorical questions anyway.  But I do have something to say about the spectrum of the issue.</p><p>Thank You SOE.  Thank You Dev's.  Thank You Bug Squashers.  Thank You GM's.  This is an incredible game, and in the over a year I have played it I am still only through a fraction of the wonderful content that you have created.  Thank you for the golden sunsets and the red sunrise - thank you for the green grass and the rain, the lightening and the thunder.  Thank you for creating a world that I can go to when the real world has got me worn to a nub.</p><p>Thank you for the quests, and thank you hugely for the lore and the storyline and all of the little hints and relics and bits of information that help fill in blanks that are there.  Thank you for the new zones, and hey!  Thank you for adding a mount!  I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate what you do.</p><p>I am looking forward to the new areas and the new content that you are busy working on now.  I promise not to insult you by comparing YOUR game to WoW, and I promise that as long as you are willing to put in the effort, I am willing to enjoy it.  Thanks too for the new L&L books, and the tweaking you did to the horses and to the motion graphics.  Thanks for not making our toons look like... Well... Toons.</p><p>That's what I really wanted to say.</p><p>Kat</p><p>NB: Tea is not really that expensive in China, you can order it on the net too.</p>

[Nordy]

<p>Very nice post! This covers exactly how I feel about the game in a lot of ways, and I'm happy to see that other people share my enthusiasm for old content. I truely do love and enjoy this game, and I'm very thankful for the developers who have created it. I don't want to skip over anything, and a lot of that means hanging around those old forgotten zones doing quests nobody has heard of for rewards which will never be used. I have a blast doing it though, and can only hope that more people discover how fun it can be. I feel sorry that content seems to expire after a time, and all the hard work the developers put into it seems to go to waste because there's just so very few people left to explore and take advantage of that section of the world.</p><p>At the same time, there is something to be said about busting through all the new and exciting stuff right away. I currently use two characters, one to take my time and go slowly, and another to jump right in there and mix it up with the latest and greatest things. The only reason I have that second character is because I find it fun to keep up with the fast pace everyone else seems to have set for this game. The community is a major reason to love this game, and it's all the more fun to try to keep up with it than to let it leave you behind. It's an interesting mix playing the game from both angles, slow and fast. It also seems to confuse a lot of people, and they wonder why on Norrath I would do such a thing like that.</p><p>Anyway, thank you devs for creating this wonderful world, and I hope you know that everything you do will continue to make at least a few of us happy, even if the majority has moved on.</p>

[MadTexan3]

<p>I think you'll find that most of those complaining are upset that such a fast mount requires so little effort to get, when for the mounts they had just before that they had to do arduous quest lines or grind their guild level up with tons of writs. Simply put, they want the reward to reflect the effort. Or course, this is on servers where you don't just slap down your credit card and buy a bunch of plat.</p>

[Xova]

<cite>MadTexan3 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think you'll find that most of those complaining are upset that such a fast mount requires so little effort to get, when for the mounts they had just before that they had to do arduous quest lines or grind their guild level up with tons of writs. Simply put, they want the reward to reflect the effort. Or course, this is on servers where you don't just slap down your credit card and buy a bunch of plat.</p></blockquote><p> Spoken like someone suffering from the delusion that all Exchange players do is "slap down their credit card to buy plat". Step out of the tunnel dear - just because the service is there doesn't mean we all use it. In fact, more than a few of us don't, and those that do, do so legally (unlike people on your server.)</p><p>To the OP:  /cheer   What a great post. Playing on a PvP server, I admit that I blitz by a lot of content in the rush to have the edge over my competition. And honestly I think my gameplay suffers for it. So I've tried to slow it down some and take my time to savor as much of the content as this wonderful game has to offer. It's not easy, but it is fun, and I come out a better player for it.</p><p>/bookmarked</p>

[MadTexan3]

<cite>Xova wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MadTexan3 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think you'll find that most of those complaining are upset that such a fast mount requires so little effort to get, when for the mounts they had just before that they had to do arduous quest lines or grind their guild level up with tons of writs. Simply put, they want the reward to reflect the effort. Or course, this is on servers where you don't just slap down your credit card and buy a bunch of plat.</p></blockquote><p> Spoken like someone suffering from the delusion that all Exchange players do is "slap down their credit card to buy plat". Step out of the tunnel dear - just because the service is there doesn't mean we all use it. In fact, more than a few of us don't, and those that do, do so legally (unlike people on your server.)</p></blockquote><p>Maybe I was a bit too harsh with that statement, but you have to admit that on an exchange server you can easily (and legally, without possibility of having your account banned) get the plat to buy high end mounts where those on non-exchange servers (when they do it legally) have to go through significant effort to get that money.</p><p>To be honest I couldn't care less about the mount in question since I won't ever get one because of the looks, I was simply pointing out the reasons I have read posted by those that truly are bothered.</p>

[redde]

I very much respect the opinion of the OP and can see a large number of very well put points. This is my viewpoint: People play the game for different reasons - I am one of those people who will click click click through the top answer to every dialogue, falling for the few times when the game designers (rightly) decide to penalise you for skipping through their carefully thought out content and dialogues! (Paid 50g accidentally on ivy shrouded orb quest, had to restart SBS, etc..). There are a few quests whose dialogues & storylines I will read and enjoy, but thanks to the large number of walkthroughs available online, I don't often find the need/desire. So.. why do I play? I always play with a goal in mind, and get bored VERY quickly if I find myself in a group that is killing just for xp. If I find or hear of a zone that I haven't been to - I will set up a group and go through it, if I know or hear of a quest that will give me some equipment that I will be able to use and improve my character with, I'll do it. However, having reached 100AAs, I personally have little motivation to do quests that will reward me with an item for which I have no use, as I am uninterested in the lore of the game, and without reading this, most involve the same sequence: speak to X, kill Y number of Zs, visit A, run to B, kill some more Zs and speak to X again for your reward! I am currently playing 2 characters: a 70 pally with 100AA and a 43 coercer with 48AA. AA is something I enjoy a lot about the game - I'm interested in how each class is different, what function each performs. Having played both EQ1 and EQ2, and rolled one of each class at some point (most get deleted at around level 20!) I have seen a large amount of each spell line, and feel like I comfortably know the role of each. AAs introduce yet another dimension into this - I particularly like the "final" abilities that are unlocked after a certain number of points have been spent. I play quite a large number of hours a week, and as of yet have not gotten bored with the game. I play to group and am really enjoying finding the right group combinations to take on the harder zones and upgrade my gear (which is still not great). Ultimately I'd like to raid - but I am currently in a guild with whom that is very unlikely to be possible. I know that I have only seen a fraction of the game content, but I am happy playing how I do. Ultimately - I simply don't have TIME to complete every quest in the game, and I know that when I have completed the quests I am currently working on, more will be released with better, more up to date content and rewards than what working on older content would give. People bring me the variety and fun that I need to keep this game interesting for me. P.S. I have heard of the arena many a time, yet never been there. Maybe I will soon!

[Sydias]

<p>The original post sums up my feelings exactly.  My first character I had to rush through in order to keep up with my RL friends.  Once I reached 70, did raiding, HQs, epic quests,etc.  I found myself to be very bored and burned out.</p><p>When I created a new character I started doing it at my own pace doing quests and following story lines.  I have come nowhere near completing everything in the game and is the main reason why I have so many characters on the go, all progressing slowly and deliberately.  It is also the reason why I will continue to create characters as there is a large percentage of the game's content that I still have not even touched.</p>

[rubels]

<p>OP :</p><p>I sort of agree with you to a extent. I believe alot of what your saying is also SOE own fault. In there effort to make the game easier they removed the road blocks that allowed people to bypass content , power level other people, fully master and fable out alts with vary little trouble. </p><p>In the start of the game each zone had access quests for example Zek. If you wanted to go to Zek you needed access. This prevented people from basicly flying through content by saying ok the next hot spot is EL after Rov for instant. They also had to find people there own level to do these quests since well mentoring was not in the game and you where unable to group with someone over x level.</p><p>I really miss those sort of time sinks in honesty. I know that they where a pain in the [Removed for Content] but in all honesty. There was alot less plat farmers in end zones (they had to flag and yes there where a few but not really that many) and alot less "noob" type people that didnt take there time to .... play there class instead of buying collections and grinding through to what was the next "hot" spot.</p><p>As for content ... I personally play one character , no alts I do everything thats related to my class and like I said I see your point. </p><p>Theres also this point though. This game has no replayability. I dont want to go back and redo speak like a dragon and all that other crap I have done once already. This game is vary step by step in progression and I see that as a long term problem honestly. So I hope you understand where the level 70 100 aa raid type players are comming from when we say we are bored at times. Its not the fact that most of didnt do content but more along the lines of we burnt that content up a long long time ago and are basicly now down to a vary few options. For example Krovax is my character lvl 70 guard , 100 AA basicly only upgrades in the game currently for me are raid  EoF drops. There is no quest progression in eof either so .... I dont have any quests to do besides grey ones that equal 0 Exp and no reward that is a upgrade so hence like 75 % of the long time level 70s I log into Raid for 2 - 3 hrs a night and farm masters and cash for the next expansion. Because well behonest I dont have [Removed for Content] to do.</p><p>- Krovax</p>

[Themaginator]

AHH YES! QFE OP... QFFE

[Xova]

<cite>MadTexan3 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Maybe I was a bit too harsh with that statement, but you have to admit that on an exchange server you can easily (and legally, without possibility of having your account banned) get the plat to buy high end mounts where those on non-exchange servers (when they do it legally) have to go through significant effort to get that money.</p><p>To be honest I couldn't care less about the mount in question since I won't ever get one because of the looks, I was simply pointing out the reasons I have read posted by those that truly are bothered.</p></blockquote><p> /minithreadjack</p><p>Fair enough, however try looking at it this way.</p><p>I'm a single mom. I work a full-time job that takes a lot of my time and energy. I work pretty hard at that job and I often am not compensated for all the work I do. I get paid twice a month, and after taking care of bills, rent, groceries, daycare, etc., I have some extra spending cash that I worked very hard to earn. You might take your extra spending cash that you worked hard to earn and use it to pay for a movie, or buy a new CD, or go out to dinner, etc. I like to take mine and use it legally on the server I play on to pay for virtual goods/coin so that I can enjoy my time ingame.</p><p>I get enough of "work" at my actual job; I don't need to "work" in a game where I am trying to have fun. If given the choice between working in a game to earn 5 plat for a wolf mount, <b><u>OR</u></b> using my RL money that <i><b>I worked hard to earn</b></i> to buy plat legally from another player so I can get my warg mount and enjoy watching my avatar ride around on it....well yeah, I'm going to go with option #2.</p><p>Different strokes for different folks.</p><p>/minithreadjackend</p><p>Still a great thread, and still very true. I started doing the SoD questline after never starting any of the other "prismatic" quests, and even though this quest is a pain in the neck to get through sometimes, I am having fun. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[MadTexan3]

Xova wrote: <blockquote><p>I get enough of "work" at my actual job; <i><b><u>I don't need to "work" in a game where I am trying to have fun</u></b></i>. If given the choice between working in a game to earn 5 plat for a wolf mount, <b><u>OR</u></b> using my RL money that <i><b>I worked hard to earn</b></i> to buy plat legally from another player so I can get my warg mount and enjoy watching my avatar ride around on it....well yeah, I'm going to go with option #2.</p></blockquote><p>I can appreciate your viewpoint, and like you I certainly work enough IRL and accordingly I don't get as much play time as I'd like.</p><p>Please note the bolded, underline and italicized part of your text I quoted. Based on your viewpoint, and considering your statement, do you feel that the high end fabled items that raid guilds 'work' for should be made available to those like us who spend more time working IRL than in game?</p><p>The mount in question poses just that sort of quandary, giving easy access to items that players previously had to 'work' in game for. A warg is at least equal to a 30th guild level mount for roughly half the cost in PP and without any SP cost.</p><p>I don't know your guild experiences, but getting a guild to 30th level isn't anything to sneeze at, takes dedication on the part of its members and is certainly more involved than running around in a zone for an hour.</p>

[Juravael]

A very good post and I agree with you Kat on all of your points and observations. I have been playing since launch, Nov 8th 2005 and I am still very happy with the game in all respects. Yes, thank you to all of the EQ2 team for everything - they are doing a fantastic job and I look forward to the game growing and expanding over the next several years.

[Xova]

<cite>MadTexan3 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Xova wrote: <blockquote><p>I get enough of "work" at my actual job; <i><b><u>I don't need to "work" in a game where I am trying to have fun</u></b></i>. If given the choice between working in a game to earn 5 plat for a wolf mount, <b><u>OR</u></b> using my RL money that <i><b>I worked hard to earn</b></i> to buy plat legally from another player so I can get my warg mount and enjoy watching my avatar ride around on it....well yeah, I'm going to go with option #2.</p></blockquote><p>I can appreciate your viewpoint, and like you I certainly work enough IRL and accordingly I don't get as much play time as I'd like.</p><p>Please note the bolded, underline and italicized part of your text I quoted. Based on your viewpoint, and considering your statement, do you feel that the high end fabled items that raid guilds 'work' for should be made available to those like us who spend more time working IRL than in game?</p><p>The mount in question poses just that sort of quandary, giving easy access to items that players previously had to 'work' in game for. A warg is at least equal to a 30th guild level mount for roughly half the cost in PP and without any SP cost.</p><p>I don't know your guild experiences, but getting a guild to 30th level isn't anything to sneeze at, takes dedication on the part of its members and is certainly more involved than running around in a zone for an hour.</p></blockquote><p>I just recently dinged my guild lvl32, exclusively through PvP, so yes I'm aware of the work involved in getting a guild to that level (and higher.) I also have a Nightmare on one toon, a War-Barded on another, and a Sprit Steed on a third.</p><p>To answer your question - I have mixed feelings about it. I think mounts in this game are horribly slow. I think the reward for the carpet quest is ridiculous considering the effort you put out to get it. I think the Warg quests are a little simplistic, but then you also have to pay out some plat for it. I think guild level reward mounts should be faster and have better stats than what they currently offer.</p><p>Here's the thing with MMO's, and if you've played them for any length of time then you should know what I am talking about: they change. Constantly. The developers make modifications to the game that in some cases make things easier, and in some cases present more challenge. Previously you had to be in a high-level guild or shell out a ridiculous amount of plat for a mount with above 40% speed. Now you can do a simple quest series and pay a low amount of plat to get a neat-looking mount that doesn't give you any stats, but does run at 45% speed.</p><p>You seem to see the Warg quest as being an injustice against players that previously had to "work" to earn a comparable mount, as though it somehow invalidates the effort put out by players previously to earn the high-speed guild reward mounts. I see it as the developers making the effort to add some more "fun factor" to the game, and that it is possibly a pre-cursor to additional mount improvements and/or guild rewards.  I suspect that we have very different viewpoints in other areas as well. But that's probably a subject better left for a different thread as we've derailed this one quite enough I think. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Seraki]

<p> Personally I feel like when players are feeling violated by new improved content, that's when the gray area of what part of the game is real and what isn't goes too far.    The only thing real in these games is how we treat each other, what we pay for them and technical issues.    I know some task are very long, tedious and costly in terms of time and what goes into them but any MMO that does not progress its content is basically winding down.   </p><p> This year a record number of MMO games will go live and I don't think that is going to change with even bigger entertainment companies taking steps to get on the MMO bandwagon and rake in some of the insurmountable profit potential.  That being said its important for a game that wants to stick around long enough to gain the loyalty of fans that comes with legendary status for an MMO to keep them entertained, and to do that content must be progressive and responsive to the frustration vs fun factors felt by its players.   </p><p> As much as I sympathize with people who have effort wise made almost a second job out of progressing and enhancing their characters, for the health and welfare of the game as a whole things must move on and rewards must improve.   If there has been a lot of feedback suggesting frustrations on certain issues then that is where the frustration factor need to lighten up.  </p><p> No matter how proud I might be of figuratively walking 10 miles barefoot in the snow to reach my destination, I would not wish that same stress on those who come after me.   I would rather wish that my feedback made things better for others.   ... but that's just me</p><p>.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[MadTexan3]

<p>You're all probably right. I think I'll start a movement to get all fabled loot that normally require raids to acquire moved to soloable or at least heroic encounters. I mean, just because raid guilds have to organize for and overcome those challenges doesn't mean I should have to suffer the same trials, right?</p><p>The same for faction-specific rewards like titles and furniture that others have had to grind for. It's just titles and furniture, the people who actually ground faction out to get them are only being selfish if they oppose others getting those things for an hour's questing, right?</p>

[Bhagpuss]

MMOs should never have fallen into the trap of calling themselves "games". In the world we players inhabit, no-one is expected to do "everything", let alone to do it in order. I don't expect my characters to do everything in their world either, nor do I expect them to start at the beginning and work through to the end. Norrath is a fairly good Virtual World, in which it is reasonable to pick and choose what you, or your character, wishes to do. There's no right or wrong way to do this, and no way to win or lose. Therer is a "game" element if you choose to focus on it, but I wouldn't say it was in any way central to the playing experience, let alone essential to it. "Content" is simply there to be used or ignored as you see fit, in the order you choose to use it or in no order at all. As in life, there are certain things it is very hard to avoid doing, but generally feedom of action is pretty good. I "play" all MMOs that way anyway, regardless of whether they are designed to be played thrugh in some kind of order or with some kind of purpose. The point, insofaras there is one, seems to me to be to inhabit the character and try to see the world from his or her perspective.

[Tash 1]

<p>I am really impressed by those who can keep on doing all quests in an area before moving to the next. And those who can keep reading through all the dialogs. I have to admit I got bored since I felt that 95% of the quest was in the manner. "Random text... kill X of Y and return to me" Or "Random text go to spot X, Y, Z and return to me." I love quests but I get easily bored and I don't enjoy grey quests. I have often hoped to get some more thinking quests...  like when one pushed crates around on the ship. Or quests with more with more feeling. As the first time in Unrest. I loved to get the letter when I got back <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But if I could wish, it would be fewer quests but more brain stimulating. I love quests where you don't have to kill anything just stalk think and eh well be clever? And I do understand those who were upset about the warg quest. People wanted to feel a bit cool to have done the quest and when it turned out it was 10 minutes work. It wasn't very cool anymore. I did the quest but didn't buy the warg. Most since I am afraid it will tip on the nose since he has all his weight in front of the front legs.</p><p>/ash</p>

[Noaani]

Dutchgrrl wrote: <blockquote>After just a few questions I discovered that none of her group has actually done the content in any one area before moving on to a new area/expansion.  Mostly it seems they hit the high points - the HQ's, the quests and areas that drop specifically desireable items, and some of them did collections.  It wasn't so much that they were not interested in the other content, it was that they either didn't know that there was a lot more to do, or - and this one applied to most of them - they followed whatever their guild and/or group was doing, which generally meant jumping all over the place for this or that end. <p>Lately there have been people vocal on the boards about how they are disappointed with how easy it is to get the new mount, though I wonder if they understand that the reality is that it was easy for THEM, not easy for all.  Most of the people who posted complaints, when I looked at their toons page, appear to be the sort that level as fast as they can, and who leverage their guild or other toons for gear, weapons, plat and etc.  IOW these are the same sort of people who do not do all of the content in an area before moving on to the next area.  Content that is rich, well crafted and entertaining.</p></blockquote><p>All up that was a very good post, but I'd like to focus on the part above for a minute.</p><p>It is human nature to want the best. To be the best. To experiance the best. This aspect of human nature carries over in to all aspects of it, gaming included. </p><p>For some, this means finding the best items in this game for their level, and going out and getting them. For others it means doing as many quests as possable, and soaking themselves in the lore, stories and characters involved in that. For some it means following a select group of in game or RL friends around, just doing whatever. For others it means PLing it to the level cap and raiding the biggest baddest mobs in the game. None of these are the "wrong" way to play this game. There are diffrent styles for diffrent people, and for the most part this game does a very good job of catering to them all.</p><p>In order for content to be experianced by the largest portion of the population as possable, it needs to cater to the gaming habbits of as many of the above as is possable (as well as any other gaming style that may exist). In the specific case of The Bloodline Chronacles, one needs to remember that the "high end reward" for that adventure pack was limited to one per server. Once that item had been looted on the server, there ceased to be any reason for a large majority of the population to even think about those zones, even though they had some great quests. </p><p>If SoE wanted to bring people back to Bloodlines, it would be as simple as making that 11 quest series reward players with their level 35 class specific spell master. While it almost sounds like bribing, something as simple as that (the items exist in game, are no trade already, yet have only been discovered on one server, under very suspect circumstances) would attract a very large majority of players that had not already done those quests to that part of the world. Future characters would have The Tomb of Night as a required stop over on the way up to the level cap, and no doubt those players that are here for the social aspects of the game would stop in to see what all the fuss is about.</p><p>Point is, the majority of players will stick to content that provides them with a feeling of accomplishment. For a lot of people, in order to feel like they accomplised something of note, they need to have a badge of this success on display to others. This is why areas in the game that drop legandary or fabled items are popular, and indeed why people want legandary and fabled (there are certian treasured items that are better than anything fabled or legandary in game for some classes, yet people will wear fabled over the better item simply because it is "fabled&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p>I would hazard a guess that SoE are more than aware of this, and as such have come to two conclusions about that particular part of the game.</p><p>1, it was 2 years ago, it is old content, it is not worth changing anything in here. While this is quite possable, I would be supprised if it was true. A change like this would take maybe an hour of Dev time (I would assume, add an NPC to the game, have a check to see if either of the last quests have been completed, reward one of 12 spells if one has), yet would add so much play time for so many people, as eeryone would do those quests to get a master of a spell that has no upgrade (the brawler spell may need looking at I guess if this were to happen).</p><p>2, they are aware of how little some content is being used, and aware that an upgrade of rewards would see its use increase. The reason they are not upgrading those areas is to leave those lore rich parts of the game for those people that want to explore and discover the lore of the game, without the hassle of other people that are there for OMG! Uber l00t!</p><p>Unfortunatly, if you are chosing to continue on content that was released years ago, you will come accross that quite often. If you were to go to EoF, however, I would be t the same people have a very good idea of what is avalible for them to do, where it is, what it involves, and what rewards can come from it. A few people may even be able to tell you the basic story of what is happening there.</p>

[NightGod473]

<cite>MadTexan3 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You're all probably right. I think I'll start a movement to get all fabled loot that normally require raids to acquire moved to soloable or at least heroic encounters. I mean, just because raid guilds have to organize for and overcome those challenges doesn't mean I should have to suffer the same trials, right?</p><p>The same for faction-specific rewards like titles and furniture that others have had to grind for. It's just titles and furniture, the people who actually ground faction out to get them are only being selfish if they oppose others getting those things for an hour's questing, right?</p></blockquote>You already can-all you need to do is wait a year or three and you'll be able to get equal-to/better-than loot in comparison to what is available today. And the top-end bar will be raised yet again. I left for a year-when I came back, loot that was "OMG UBER" when I left is now vendor trash/god food, because the level cap has increased and tons of new zones have opened up. It's called mudflation, and it happens to every MMO that lasts more than a couple of years. Being able to acquire a 45% run speed mount for 30 minutes of running and a couple hours of farming loot is just another example of it. Fighting against it in all but the most egregious situations is futile and makes you start sounding like the old man sitting on his front porch yelling at kids for using I-pods and cell phones. For the record, they have already made a change that applies to the faction ground titles/furniture-when the system was first put into place, you would get negative hits for the other three factions for every positive hit you got-they changed it so that you now only get positive hits, making it much easier to acquire all the titles and house items. The flip-side to mudflation is the existence of status items-things that will still require some level of effort, usually in the form of vast amounts of time, to acquire, no matter how far down the line we get. While that time requirement may be altered as time goes on (ie-removal of negative faction hits, possible increase in faction hits for higher level quests at some future date), there is always going to be a sub-set of items that will require that extra bit of work and dedication-in this case we could point to the Level 60 guild mounts with unique particle effects and a 5% increase in speed or hard to acquire titles and furniture as a couple examples of those. Not game changing items, to be sure, but still a mark of that extra bit of effort for those who wish to strive for them.

[MadTexan3]

<cite>NightGod473 wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's called mudflation, and it happens to every MMO that lasts more than a couple of years. Being able to acquire a 45% run speed mount for 30 minutes of running and a couple hours of farming loot is just another example of it. Fighting against it in all but the most egregious situations is futile and makes you start sounding like the old man sitting on his front porch yelling at kids for using I-pods and cell phones. </blockquote><p><-- Is sitting on his rocker right now, shaking his cane at the kids.</p><p>Hmm... Maybe EQ2 needs cheat codes. You know, so you can skip all the questing/levelling/raiding by just hitting A A W D S S on your keyboard and then you unlock special characters, all at 70th level and at full fabled raid gear and 10k plat.</p>

[NightGod473]

I'd highly advise you to never play another MMO past the two year mark then, because mudflation exists in every single one of them (except for maybe WoW, but that's only because they take two years to make expansions-give them a decade or so <span style="font-size: xx-small">(and yes, that's meant as a joke-WoW has it, as well)</span>). The issue is so well known and a part of gaming that the name itself comes from the days of Multi-User Dugeons/Dimensions (MUDs), the original text-based pre-cursors to the graphical MMOs of today.

[Dutchgrrl]

<p>Hi!</p><p>Thank you all for your participation in this thread - and I am happy that there are other people like myself who have an established love for the lore!</p><p>I hope nobody thought I was saying that there was only one playstyle that was right, because I do not believe that in any sense.  I think that we should all make the choices that are best for us and the choice that I made was to take it slow and enjoy the experience.</p><p>I read with interest the many replies on the new mount, and I believe that they all have merit.  My opinion in it differs slightly in that I do not see it as the easy to accomplish task that some of you do.</p><p>I remember being a low level toon - and when I say low level I mean under level 50.  When I was below level 50, 5 plat was a LOT of money.  A very LOT.  And it was not a matter of a few hours farming for me to acquire that, it was more like weeks.  Now at level 61 I know I can accumulate 5 plat in a days farming in the clefts or POF.  So yes, that is not as big a deal as it would be if I were below 50... But as for the quest being easy..</p><p>I do not believe that for a toon of less than 50 it is easy.  Maybe it is not hard for a group of toons that are level 50, but a group that is, say, level 40 or below?  Yes, hard.  I thought that the reason that the devs did the mount quest the way that they did is that it was a token effort to add to the fun of the process.</p><p>What I thought it was really was that they could just as easily have put the mount in the stable menu and the players would have just purchased it there.  Instead of that, they put in what some see as a trivial quest as a means of making it funner than it would be if you just bought it from the stable NPC.</p><p>Let's face it, the only low level toons that are going to be able to get that thing are alts from established toons.  Anybody else will have to really work for it IMO.</p><p>Now that does not mean that I am saying you are wrong if you disagree - this is just my own opinion.</p><p>Be well...</p><p>Kat</p>

[NightGod473]

There's also the fact that, in order to even get the quest, you need to be mid-50s or so. Might even be 60ish, but don't quote me on that. I know there is a definite level requirement on it, however.

[Tash 1]

Well not to spoil the quest but it goes like this. - Talk to person. - Run outside town use object on a mob. - Run back Do this three times and you done. If you just a tiny bit clever and use maybe a totem you will be home free. In less than 10 minutes. Only thing that can hinder you is if you happened to aggro a lot of mobs and are a low level like 55-65. At level 70 one can just train back and forth. And the 5 plat… A well its money but nothing heroic with having that I say. So this quest is to me boring and easy. A fun quest involves some thinking planning and a little element of luck. /Tash

[SinIsLaw]

yepps the Mount quest has a lvl restriction, and you will not get the quest until you have reached the higher 50th! I can on one hand understand a lot of people whining about the quest beeing to easy. having one of the fastest mounts without much effort is imho lame! I would have loved a challenging quest line for the lvl capped players or at least for the once being 65+. Anything which could have been comparable to the DoF carpet quest. Man I remember when DoF was coming out and we lvled up to get a [Removed for Content] crapet and on the final fight the djin it as a real challange and u felt like having achieved something! Sure when it was done I had a HUGE dept bar as we did whipe a several times, but in it's 1st instance it was an awesome quest! Unfortunately it was dumbed down in updates over the time that it was rendered meaning less of "owning a carpet" back then ... I have voice my opinion about EoF beeing a disaster for lvl 70 toons, and in a way i can understand why people complain and leave! There is to little & to easy stuff for the High Lvl population which  in most cases has been around since day 1. Sure SoE has revamp a lot of Zones, but really does no good for lvl 70 to move back and do gray quest! In order to enjoy these zone you do need to have a mentor friend or a second account, and trust me not all want to by just that! I have been lucky and can mentor down to a friends toons, to re vistit zone  - DFC was a real thumbs up! But without having that chance it wouldn't have been possible on my 1st toon. Well to the Op, I have plaid since the launch -  I had completed the HQs & main story lines before each new expansion - Bloodlines & Sp done back then on my main toon (xept the raids, as i was one of few ready to do em).  My quest count is not overly abnormal 1,5k+, the SK is 70,70 Armorer with 100 AA and 272 transmuting. And on top of that i have 2 other 70th with 100 AA and 70/67 crafters, one a 350 tinker. So I would say I'm someone who has plaid this game a fair bit ... And while I still have the luxus to mentor down and redo stuff, not everyone has or does even want to roll another toon ... And I think I'm one of many, at least I know a fair bit of people with similar toons/stats And for these people the game has really little to offer and when new stuff comes it really apears to be trival for them - like the warg mount, or the steps for the SoD questline - so it is really understandable why they are voicing out their opinions! This is one of the reason why I see a loooot of people leaving the game right now! The missing content for the 70 population and the change raid content (it is finally a more script based, and more challenge to learn the encounters then it ever was in DoF) - has caused a lot of frustration, and makes people quit, and guilds crumble ...