The proper raid setup - non tank groups

[HuskerFootball]

<p>Got a question for those raiders out there for the 3 non tank groups</p><p>I have heard 2 different theories.</p><p>1.  Make all the other groups have one of each class (Fighter, scout, healer, caster) for HO's</p><p>2.  Put all scouts in 1 group with Dirge or Coercer and 1 healer and put all nukers in one group with Troub and/or Dirge and a healer.</p><p>and make the last group just whatever is left over.</p><p> Anyone add anything?</p>

[Controlor]

Generally the group set up is MT group then a MA group (some ares yah could use 2 tanks) then scout group and mage group. If you have an abundances of dirges / coercers then throw one in scout group (i dont see that often). Troub or illy AND a fury in nuker group. Fury boost int and have nice dps mods for casters. Believe thats the general set up for raids it also depends who you have in each raid sometimes you have more scouts sometimes more fighters and sometimes more nukers but yah.

[Macross_JR]

Controlor, I'm sorry, but if you put all your mages and scouts in one group you are not using the classes to their full capabilities.  You do know that mage melee proc's stack right(not the same classes proc's but the others do).  Those add up when put on the right scout classes or some fighter classes.  So I really don't see making groups just of mage's with a troub and fury, that is a waste.

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

Githil@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote>Controlor, I'm sorry, but if you put all your mages and scouts in one group you are not using the classes to their full capabilities.  You do know that mage melee proc's stack right(not the same classes proc's but the others do).  Those add up when put on the right scout classes or some fighter classes.  So I really don't see making groups just of mage's with a troub and fury, that is a waste. </blockquote> Why's a troub a poor choice to stack the procs on? They have a lot of self haste, high int and spell crit chance. Okay so they're maybe not the #1 choice across the game but would you really sacrifice troub/illu buffs on casters to give some random scout some procs (when he'd get more DPS from a dirge / fighter buffs)?

[Novusod]

A mage can only DPS so much before they end up pulling agro and dying. With a troubador in the group using hate reduction the mage group can do a lol more DPS simply because they will not pull agro. Procs, buffs, and AoE immunity are just some other things troubs bring to raids.

[SacDaddy420]

I would not build a raid force with HOs as a foundation.   Heroic Opportunities in my experience are just a bonus, nothing that can make or break an encounter, like DPS most certainly can.   So go with something  like controller mentioned.   Or maybe something like :  wiz, necro , fury, illusi, troub, ranger.   that group would be kickin on the parse  As far as what macross is thinkin....PhoenixBlade is a very weak proc.  And mine is master.  The warlocks' one pwns its face.  And PB ALWAYS overwrites the locks, so if your a wizard with a lock in group dont even cast it.   And as far as that goes, you arent going to want EITHER sorcerer in with a scout heavy group since without hate reduction you're gimpin your raid DPS.  Dirges are for scouts.  I suppose you could put a conjy in there, for ember seed, but trust me, that conj is far better off with a troub as well.  not so much for the hate, but for aria and PotM.   From macross' post it seems he is the one who has more to learn on class capabilities.

[Macross_JR]

If you need that much hate reduction in each group you might want to take a look at your mt group set up. I never said you shouldn't put a troub in with mages, yes, it help, troubs also help hate reduction of scouts as well, dirges just have better buffs for scouts to increase their dps. And as far as what you think about PB, it might not seem like a lot of damage, but overall it really adds up. anyway, these are just my opinions.

[Bewts]

<p>G1: Guard Dirge Coercer Templar Warden Mystic</p><p>G2: Zerker Inquis Assassin Swash Brigand Bruiser</p><p>G3: SK Fury Illy Troub Wizard Warlock</p><p>G4: Pally Defiler Ranger Conj Necro Monk</p><p>G1 is standard setup, addresses hate and keeping MT alive</p><p>G2 applies dps mods to the fast swinging scouts to maximize their damage</p><p>G3 addresses the big hitting mages, gives the SK more int for their hybrid casting skills (and I think they get a hate syphon as well for the group?)</p><p>G4 allows amends to be put on the conj, and monk can keep the necro alive through a lifeburn with the proper AA choices and siphon threat from them that will be removed through de-hate AA choices <read can go all out></p><p>This setup allows all debuffs to be put in on epic targets, puts one of each class in the raid, and allows the biggest hitters to maximize their damage without tipping the scales in the aggro management department.  Theres no point in getting one person in the raid up to 3k dps when everyone else suffers a 2-300 dps loss due to the setup.</p><p>You could switch the warlock with the conj in this setup although I feel the conj would give more to G4 than the extra DPS the warlock would get with amends on them.  I don't see the advantage of putting amends on a manaburn wizard - just give them a repair kit and hope they know better than to stand at the back of the raid when they launch manaburn at 50% (they hurt every melee's dps for the sake of manaburn in that position).</p><p>I rarely use HO's or see them used consistently in raids.  Typically I see them as a loss of DPS as you end up paying more attention to advancing the HO wheel than you do focusing on min/maxing your own dps.</p><p>I also believe that there are better choices to min/max in regards to taking one of each class compared to multiples of others.  There really isn't a reason to have a Monk on the raid when you could easily substitute a second Brigand in their place to add another 17.5 seconds of Dispatch per encounter.  In no way does the Monk do as much dps as you'd see from what a Brigand would bring themselves plus what their Dispatch would do for everyone else.  I just chose to select one of each class to maximize the raidwide available debuffs on an epic target to accomplish a full 'debuff'.  This same arguement could be applied to several classes in my setup compared to what others would bring.</p><p>Take it as you will folks, thats my 'ideal' setup if I had to use one of each class in a raid.</p>