The current development cycle is a mistake...

[Kaalenarc]

<p> And here's why:</p><p> Currently we are getting little bits and pieces of content with each patch. According to the recently mailed out SOE letter we got last week - they are trying to patch in content "normally reserved for paid expansions"  - This is only partially true, however, as we are not getting the volume of new material to do at once. </p><p> I believe 2 full expansions per year, not one, are really the way to go. My evidence? Anecdotal of course, but I think many will agree that once you hit 70, do most of the major questlines, and raid till you're fully fabled - theres just not much else to do. Look at the way we are currently getting content. New mount? GREAT. AWESOME. But how starved are we for content that literally half the server was there the day teh quest came out? I'd MUCH rather have had them launch, say 8 new mounts, with a new expansion I pay for, than send em out one at a time and lag everything to heck. Another example? Unrest - Amazing zone - but really should have been rolled out with EoF or been released in unison with another expansion. Not necesarily to make folks wait but because when you release em one at a time, everyone does it immediately and then a day later are right back feeling like there is nothing to do.</p><p> When EoF was released, with a bunch of zones of all levels, and multiple instances, it was a few months worth of content. As it currently stands, each month now we get anywhere from one hour to two days worth of content and thats supposed to tide us over till the next patch. More and more Im seeing folks becoming a bit bored. And, as we all know, thats not a recipe for success.</p><p> Bottom line - I dont think anyone here will say that all of the material combined since EoF launch equals the content of any of our previous expansions. Simply put - we are getting less. I dont forsee Kunark coming out before the end of summer at the absolute earliest, and I doubt it will contain as much content as the two expansions we received last year. </p><p> The key to the success of these games is immersion, particularly with regards to seeing your character grow and develop. Yes, we can make alts, but I think once you lose the ability to discover new things (as many of feel we have) - then boredom can set in.</p><p>So yeah, I'll take the unpopular stance and say give me two paid for expansions every year vs the slow trickle of stuff we have gotten thus far. Dont get me wrong - a lot of the stuff released in patches so far has been cool (particularly the new mount) and some was just tedious (cough 50frakkingstatues!! Cough) - but its not adding up to the same amount of content. </p><p> Yes it takes time and money to develop new content, thats why I prefer to pay for it -and get more of it. </p><p>Just my .02 copper</p>

[Aera]

Have you ever played EQ Live?  It runs in the 6 month expansion plan and the content in their expansion packs--especially the higher-end stuff, usually--is broken.  No, thanks.  I'd rather wait longer for bug-free content.

[Polywogus]

Hehe, Aera, was just gonna say - over in EQLive, you see people begging for 1 well done expansion as opposed to the 6 month cycle. Regarding Unrest, wasn't that promoted as part of the EoF package anyway? Now it's considered 'free content'? Bleh, if it was supposed to be in EoF to begin with..

[Kaalenarc]

<p>This isnt EQLive, and as far as I know most of EOF was bug free. Regardless of whether its released one small thing at a time , or all at once, bugs happen. And I would agree with you if I honestly thought we would get as much content in the next expansion as we did in the previous two. We wont.  So you arent waiting for bug free. You're waiting for less.</p>

[Kaalenarc]

<p> btw - my post isnt there to take a shot at the DEVs or SOE, its to say that - they have made this mistake before...this is frighteningly similar to the path taken on SWG. And while what happened there may not happen here, it was the fact that players were slowly trickling out, complaining of boredom, that led to the NGE. Read the letters from Torres and Smedley when it rolled out - they flat out said they werent taking in enough new people to retain the ones who were getting bored and cycling out of the game. Given that SOE's advertising of this game is minimal at best - new content at least increases media awareness and puts boxes on shelves. </p><p>They missed the boat, players wanted more content, more to do. Thats the challenge, discovering new things, opening up new adventures , gaining new skills. When that stops, or slows to a trickle, people leave.  </p>

[Polywogus]

Yah, I realise this isn't EQLive, & as far as I know, EOF had a relatively smooth launch because it wasn't released on a 6 month cycle. But, what do I know, it's only *my* 2cp after all =)  *edit* I do agree w/ you on people wanting more stuff, but we certainly wouldn't want what happens in EQLive to leak over here - meaning 1/2 the expac isn't finished @ launch.  Not to say it *would* happen, but you get lots of content shoved into a short amt. of dev time & it's a toss up what'll come out, heh.

[Lonaleasia]

You do know the game is to end at some point. While content can be added yearly you do hit that end point. Simlar things happend when Jedi was introduced in SWG everyone went "NOW WHAT". You can not appease everyone with the new content, eventually you do get bored.

[Kaalenarc]

<cite>Lonaleasia wrote:</cite><blockquote>You do know the game is to end at some point. While content can be added yearly you do hit that end point. Simlar things happend when Jedi was introduced in SWG everyone went "NOW WHAT". You can not appease everyone with the new content, eventually you do get bored.</blockquote> Of course, but given the long life of EQ1 - I'd suspect the DEVs hope and intention is to do the same in EQ2 - and if thats the case, we arent even halfway there yet.

[bleap]

<cite>Aera wrote:</cite><blockquote>Have you ever played EQ Live?  It runs in the 6 month expansion plan and the content in their expansion packs--especially the higher-end stuff, usually--is broken.  No, thanks.  I'd rather wait longer for bug-free content.</blockquote>EQ1 (LIVE) never had bad problems with broken expansions until the development team responsible was forced by SOE to take on a different product...EQ2. When that happened SOE used (and still presumably does) interns and inexperienced people to continue development for EQ1. That's why some of their latests expansions have come out broken or incomplete...But the last 2 EQ2 expansions have been released both broken and incomplete and they had a full year to develop them! 2 expansion a year would be great. It would help prevent so much "leak" to other games when people get board with the content. Most of the new expansions can be explored and discovered in 6 months easily....So why does SOE feel the need to bore players for 6 months...People get bored and people leave...Sure, some come back for a new expansion, but as soon as they feel they have done and seen it all off they go again...Give us 2 expansions a year would help decrease those numbers...

[Kaalenarc]

<p>I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed all of the expansions, and I think the DEV team is getting better at them. </p><p>EoF > KoS > DoF .   I know they take a lot of hard work by a lot fo dedicated people. I guess, well - I need more stuff to do!</p><p>and since Im being controversial - raise the level cap for players and guilds too!</p>

[liveja]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ1 (LIVE) never had bad problems with broken expansions until the development team responsible was forced by SOE to take on a different product...EQ2. </blockquote><p>At which expansion do you think this started to become a problem?</p><p>& BTW, you have some way to prove this claim?</p>

[bleap]

Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Lonaleasia wrote:</cite><blockquote>You do know the game is to end at some point. While content can be added yearly you do hit that end point. Simlar things happend when Jedi was introduced in SWG everyone went "NOW WHAT". You can not appease everyone with the new content, eventually you do get bored.</blockquote> Of course, but given the long life of EQ1 - I'd suspect the DEVs hope and intention is to do the same in EQ2 - and if thats the case, we arent even halfway there yet.</blockquote>In my opinion EQ2 will never have the staying power EQ1 had. It was new, huge and had very little competition. There were just no other games of that magnitude until AC and DAoC and by then EQ1 had hundreds of thousands of addicted...er I mean loyal players... EQ2 has never been as popular as EQ1. There are no where near the numbers of players in EQ2 as there were when EQ1 was 3 years old. EQ1 didn't have a server merger due to lowering population until it was 6 years old (when EQ2 was released) but EQ2 had a server merger after 1 year.. I don't think SOE is going to pull the plug on EQ2 just yet, but eventually EQ2 will dwindel to a few servers and become more of a liability that a profitable product and it will die...OR some other company wil buy the rights to it and try to keep it alive with 1 or 2 servers and limited content development... There is just too much competition for EQ2...plus SOE built the game around a game engine that requires a bit more than just your off the shelf personal computer...Many more people play games like WOW  simply because they can..

[Skylher]

<p>People always say they want an expansion to be well developed , bug free blah blah blah,,, no expansion has ever come out that didnt have major issues happen.</p><p>I agree with the op, there really isnt much to do, and the mount quest was the only thing added to do in the LU (rest were fixes or enhancements to features) and it was bugged. You are supposed to bring the wolves back to the guy but you could kill it,, you could die, evac etc... to get the updates. </p><p>they also said they made performance better,, and everyone is complaining how it is actually worse. </p><p>I love this game, but i am more and more bored with it and don't think my husband and I will continue paying til the expansion, we might just quit now and resubscribe when that happens</p>

[sayitaintso]

<cite>Skylher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>People always say they want an expansion to be well developed , bug free blah blah blah,,, no expansion has ever come out that didnt have major issues happen.</p><p>I agree with the op, there really isnt much to do, and the mount quest was the only thing added to do in the LU (rest were fixes or enhancements to features) and it was bugged. You are supposed to bring the wolves back to the guy but you could kill it,, you could die, evac etc... to get the updates. </p><p>they also said they made performance better,, and everyone is complaining how it is actually worse. </p><p>I love this game, but i am more and more bored with it and don't think my husband and I will continue paying til the expansion, we might just quit now and resubscribe when that happens</p></blockquote>Yep, my wife and I have seen the EoF expansion and done just about everything there is to do short of end game raid MoBs and we dont really care to join a guild that can kill these. EoF was released nearly 6 months ago and we are bored. I have 5 level 70 toons and a level 68 conj. When the conj hits 70 I will probably cancel until the next expansion rolls out...My wife is content with staying and playing but I can tell she's only doing it because we have a lot of friends in the guild. I am not sure what I am going to do. I may go play WoW or try LoTR...and I might try the next MMO that is released..Wh knows...But it's a pretty good bet that SOE won't be getting my money until the next full expansion is released

[Shackleton1]

<p>6 month expansion cycle wreaks havoc on EQLive. Stuff is never finished.</p><p>Consider the most recent EQ2 expansion, Echoes of Faydwer.</p><p>EoF was released Nov 14th.</p><p>Unrest went live Feb 28th, over three months afterwards.</p><p>On a six month expansion cycle, Unrest would never have gone live because development would have shifted to the next expansion.</p><p>On a six month expansion cycle, if something isn't finished, fixed and polished within a month after release, then chances are it won't get be fully completed and bug free for months or years or never.</p><p>6 months is absolutely too short.</p>

[Aera]

<p>bleap wrote</p><p>EQ1 (LIVE) never had bad problems with broken expansions until the development team responsible was forced by SOE to take on a different product...EQ2. When that happened SOE used (and still presumably does) interns and inexperienced people to continue development for EQ1. That's why some of their latests expansions have come out broken or incomplete...But the last 2 EQ2 expansions have been released both broken and incomplete and they had a full year to develop them! Ok, I would really love to see some sources that backs this claim up.  Did you even follow EQ2's early development phases?  It was told time and time again to people such as yourself who complained, "omg EQ devs are forced to work on a new game, whos gonna work on EQL?" that an entirely new team of developers was hired (and a much larger team, apparently) to work on EQ2.</p>

[Dasein]

A 10-12 month development cycle makes a lot more sense and allows expansions to introduce substantially more content. DoF and KoS primarily released a few new zones, and not much else. Raising the level cap game people something to do, but beyond that the only really big thing they added was the AA system. EoF, on the other hand, has easily twice the number of zones as either DoF or KoS, tons of new art assets, a new race, new crafting sub-classes, more AA lines, cloaks and deity abilities. Overall, it is a far deeper and more developed expansion, the sort of expansion not possible with a 6-month development cycle.

[Galithdor]

<p>I thionk EQ2 has a long life ahead of its self...anyways lol the OP is right in terms of level 70's who like to raid and stuff but most people i know still find things to do heh (play alts,mentor,and some other stuff!) I cant blame him though lol the OPs guild is a cool group of people...so if they do raid they could probably clear the zones well (ive played with a few of em) </p><p>Yeah new content is always nice so people can just wait it out,enjoy the game and play it,sit around complaining,or help newbies heh I may be giving EQ2 to much credit but it is the best game around imo...i was in LOTRO beta but i just couldnt stand it...and WoW was to boring <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So maybe its the fact that i love EQ...but then i wouldnt enjoy Vanguard much lol</p>

[interstellarmatter]

<p>I just don't see a 6 month development cycling happening.  They tried it already and it didn't work.  If you read Steve Hartsman's interview, you will see that they are taking a totally different approach.  They want to release solid, tested content.  In this, they are going to take their time while giving us slow bits and pieces of free content.</p><p>With what happen to VG, I just don't see MMOs being the same again.  Companies aren't going to rush content just to give players something to do.  The makers of Guild Wars saw this a long time ago.  They said that the future players isn't going to be dependent on just one game.  A company just can't keep up with the needs of every player. </p>

[Leemeg]

Don't take my word on this, but didn't they say (when the game was released), that they had two seperate teams that worked on Expansions?

[sayitaintso]

<cite>Shackleton1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>6 month expansion cycle wreaks havoc on EQLive. Stuff is never finished.</p><p>Consider the most recent EQ2 expansion, Echoes of Faydwer.</p><p>EoF was released Nov 14th.</p><p>Unrest went live Feb 28th, over three months afterwards.</p><p>On a six month expansion cycle, Unrest would never have gone live because development would have shifted to the next expansion.</p><p>On a six month expansion cycle, if something isn't finished, fixed and polished within a month after release, then chances are it won't get be fully completed and bug free for months or years or never.</p><p>6 months is absolutely too short.</p></blockquote>OR they could do what any other company does when demand for their product goes up... HIRE MORE PEOPLE

[sayitaintso]

Creub@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote>Don't take my word on this, but didn't they say (when the game was released), that they had two seperate teams that worked on Expansions? </blockquote>Yes, and they also told us that there would 3 or maybe even 4 adventure packs every year...We have had a total of 3....(4 if you want to count unrest but it wasn't billed as one) and for the most part they have sucked...

[sayitaintso]

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I just don't see a 6 month development cycling happening.  They tried it already and it didn't work.  If you read Steve Hartsman's interview, you will see that they are taking a totally different approach.  They want to release solid, tested content.  In this, they are going to take their time while giving us slow bits and pieces of free content.</p><p>With what happen to VG, I just don't see MMOs being the same again.  Companies aren't going to rush content just to give players something to do.  The makers of Guild Wars saw this a long time ago.  They said that the future players isn't going to be dependent on just one game.  A company just can't keep up with the needs of every player. </p></blockquote> You mean SCOTT Hartsman? They waited a year to release EoF and it was STILL incomplete and broken...so what's the difference?

[sayitaintso]

<cite>Aera wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>bleap wrote</p><p>EQ1 (LIVE) never had bad problems with broken expansions until the development team responsible was forced by SOE to take on a different product...EQ2. When that happened SOE used (and still presumably does) interns and inexperienced people to continue development for EQ1. That's why some of their latests expansions have come out broken or incomplete...But the last 2 EQ2 expansions have been released both broken and incomplete and they had a full year to develop them! Ok, I would really love to see some sources that backs this claim up.  Did you even follow EQ2's early development phases?  It was told time and time again to people such as yourself who complained, "omg EQ devs are forced to work on a new game, whos gonna work on EQL?" that an entirely new team of developers was hired (and a much larger team, apparently) to work on EQ2.</p></blockquote> LOL Scott Hartsman was one of the lead devs for EQ1...When EQ2 was in prerelease production he and his team moved to develop EQ2 and an almost entirely new team took over the development of EQ1....It happened somewhere after the release of Planes of Power...So no, an entirely NEW team was not hired to work on EQ2...SOME new people were brought in to work on EQ2...and MANY new people were brought in to work on EQ1....Ever since that point, EQ1 expansions have been a bit buggy BUT and this is a BIG but... EQ1 bugs are getting repaired faster than the incomplete and broken expansions that EQ2 is putting out....(Can anyone say  EQ2 rendering bug??)

[sayitaintso]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>A 10-12 month development cycle makes a lot more sense and allows expansions to introduce substantially more content. DoF and KoS primarily released a few new zones, and not much else. Raising the level cap game people something to do, but beyond that the only really big thing they added was the AA system. EoF, on the other hand, has easily twice the number of zones as either DoF or KoS, tons of new art assets, a new race, new crafting sub-classes, more AA lines, cloaks and deity abilities. Overall, it is a far deeper and more developed expansion, the sort of expansion not possible with a 6-month development cycle. </blockquote> And with everything EoF brought to the game there are MANY people who have become bored because they have done nearly everything that can be done in EoF....So what now? Be bored with the current content or move to another game? Starting an alt would be great...but OH wait...Station Access price when up to $30 a month so we (some of us) only have 6 slots and they are FULL of level 70 toons... Now what? You people make me laugh....In one thread you complain that SOE doesn't do enough to draw players back to the game, don't advertise or market EQ2 so the server populations dwindle and players go to other games because they get bored..And in this thread you complain because releasing expansions every 6 months would mean that they might possibly be broken or buggy (which they are anyway) which means that the people who left won't come back for 6 months or more while they wait for new content...or they don't coma back at all because SOE took so long to get us new content that they are into a new game and don't want to leave that.. You can't have it both ways...So which is it? expansions every year and lower server populations or new content with a few bugs but fewer people leave....and maybe even new people come play??

[LadyEternity]

<p>Quality over quantity</p><p>Fun over work</p><p>A rushed job is never worth the effort because the end result is not the best it could be</p><p>I'm gonna say the dreaded other game word...</p><p>   One of the reasons WoW is so successful is because they release quality well done content that is fun for everyone. Yes, the development cycle is slow. But what you are getting is quality and well done expansions and additions that build a firm foundation for further expansions. It seems to me like Sony is trying to do this as well, to avoid making EQ2 the messed up jumble of fast expansions EQ1 is. And I think that's great, and we should support them. Bored at the high level? Nothing to do at the high end? Well, you could try starting over with a new character or take yours and mentor group. Go back and finish things you never finished. Explore places you have never looked at. Or try role playing. Find and new player and 'adopt' them. Group with them, give them some cash and advice. Mentor them and level with them. Make a new friend.</p><p>   New content will come out in its due time. And I am sure Sony will release it when it's finished and not before. And this next addition will probably be a new land to explore, which will open up tons of new zones and most likely a new starting area. And most likely add in a new AA tree tab and all that rot. So you will have more things to do. But you have to wait. Good things come to those who wait. Quality takes time. You cannot have everything now. Sometimes you have to wait for the good stuff. Hehe There is tons of things to do in EQ2, you just might have to get alittle creative. Shoot....you could organize mini 'games' for lowbies. The other night some person was in the newbie channel doing a 'hide and seek' event for lowbies with rewards.</p><p>Lady E</p>

[Talz]

Creub@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote>Don't take my word on this, but didn't they say (when the game was released), that they had two seperate teams that worked on Expansions? </blockquote>In EQL?  Yeah they said that but as somebody on my server said "The best thing in all of GoD was that Sony had to confess there are no multiple expansion teams.".  I don't know if they still claim that or not but at the height of the serious GoD issues they had to confess they wouldn't have the manpower to fix things until they were done with OoW so we had to be patient. Overlapping expansions there happens more often than not.  It was freely admitted that Vellious was well on its way before RoK was finished.  The same with GoD and OoW so I know for a fact that four of the eight expansions I played overlapped and it showed.  I talk to people there still and a lot feel like they just spit out expansions as fast as possible.  New players don't even know some of the most famous zones exist unless they have to go to it for an epic. I was disappointed with EoF.  I didn't want a level cap increase and in turn I expected <u><i><b>a lot</b></i></u> more content than they delivered because the amount of work involved in creating and testing a new tier was removed from development.  I know making these things aren't easy but I don't care.  It's what they're paid to do.  There are a lot worse jobs out there than making a video game.  They better knock my socks with the next expansion because I haven't even been playing and probably won't until something new enters the game. I would be all for a six month cycle if new land wasn't in every one.  The developers here have a lot better track record than in EQL in terms of expansion launches, bugs and more things being finished.  However, EQ2 already has a lot of empty zones and a six month cycle will make the ghost towns even worse.

[interstellarmatter]

Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I just don't see a 6 month development cycling happening.  They tried it already and it didn't work.  If you read Steve Hartsman's interview, you will see that they are taking a totally different approach.  They want to release solid, tested content.  In this, they are going to take their time while giving us slow bits and pieces of free content.</p><p>With what happen to VG, I just don't see MMOs being the same again.  Companies aren't going to rush content just to give players something to do.  The makers of Guild Wars saw this a long time ago.  They said that the future players isn't going to be dependent on just one game.  A company just can't keep up with the needs of every player. </p></blockquote> You mean SCOTT Hartsman? They waited a year to release EoF and it was STILL incomplete and broken...so what's the difference? </blockquote>Yes, sorry, I'm meant Scott.  Long night.  Still doesn't matter.  This is the direction that they are taking.  Either accept it or move on to something else.

[Drewx]

<p>Honestly the development cycle is not a mistake imo.</p><p>1 expansion a year is great. EQLive became infamous for its constant expansions, and over time some of them really were no different than some GUs we've seen here in EQ II. I think Lost Dungeons of Norrath was a great Expansion, but really wasn't exactly a grand expansion imo.</p><p>Now when during the time the PvP servers opened I lost 98% of my friends on Antonia Bayle...and I refused to roll a new character on a pvp server (cause I'd haveto be Qeynosian for em and I'll die before I see my character go paladin!). I got depressed and took a hiatus from EQ II and tried out WoW.</p><p>LOOK how long it took Blizzard to release The Burnig Crusade Expansion pack. And it was huge, most of the WoW community was in awe over it. But really it was about as big EoF and SOE pushed EoF in no time. Up and until Burning Crusade WoW players at lvl 60 had nothing to do...you either went into PvP battlegrounds all day, fiished up old quests, or joined a guild so you could raid. Thats was it.</p><p>In EQ II when you hit the cap, you can finish up alot of quests, mentor some new player, raid, help level your guild if it isn't capped, and lastly and the GREATEST feature IMO is you can grind/quest and get your AA points after 70. To be honest both games are very simular. But hell if I remember correctly NO MMO can keep the players at the cap happy forever. Once you are capped you're capped, you do the end game conent then what? Unfortunately this has always been the trend, even in WoW. Most 60s are bored out their minds, so what do they do? They go around...and hunt down lowbie players or (Noobers as they say in wow) and "pwn" them constantly. They corpse camp and etc, cause their is nothing else to do.</p><p>There are two solutions i can see... 1. SOE can make high lvl gameplay more enjoyable and longer by make leveling up SLOWER. This game was designed with the casual player in mind and the hardcore player. Its one the games best feature however, even casual players will say that leveling is too easy even after level 60 you can get a level a day.</p><p>In the next expansion they need to make the grind to 80 a long run. I got my alt to level 35 in the time it takes to get a character to level 20 in FFXI, and way before I could get a character to 30 in EQLive. EQLive's grinds are tediously long. SOE needs to find a mid point and lengthen the level grind so players can't hit the peak of their power in days. Hell The Burning Crusade for WoW...we had level 70s by day 3. After the 1st month 70 players were bored. Only way I could see that time frame expanding was if Blizzard had made leveling up alot harder and longer.</p><p>EoF it took longer to hit 70, however they need to make leveling slower. But...EQ II was designed to expand up to level 200. If memory serves me right...so we have ALOT of expansions to go, and in time the level grind will take longer. or...</p><p>2. They start making Adventure Packs again. Adventure packs were a breat hof fresh for EQ II, ESPECIALLY Splitpaw Saga! If SOE started to push out adventure packs that also scaled to oyur level they could keep people entertained forawhile at a much lower cost than releasing an expansion. This would give all players capped and uncapped new content and takes awhile to chew through. Hell how long did it take for the last mob in the Fallen Dynasty to finally be slain?</p><p>IMO Adventure Packs are the solution we are seeking.</p>

[Lleinen]

<p>Well, first I totally agree with the OP.  This one is losing its mustard a lot quickly than the others and I havent seen myself doing anything differently.  I believe one of the fallouts of EoF is the low amount of AAs released, 100 or more woulda been great.  And the only thing I can say is that its almost May, EoF was released in Nov, and we still havent even gotten to the end of the Swords of Destiny quest. We JUST got the last (I believe) custom helm look, and that took forever.  Unrest was released 3 months late.  I mean really, if your going to take a year to release an expansion, then at least complete it before hand....then again maybe they are doing this on purpose you never know...a way to hook people and keep them comming back, beacuse MAYBE if it was all released together, then we all woulda started to get bored a lot sooner than now. I've been a bit bored for a while, done pretty much every quest in EoF that I could and cleared all the raid instances...its pretty bad when they only added enough raids for 2-2.5 days if that.  I mean look...you have IS(1hr once you get it down) CW(5min?) FTH(45min) EH(6-9hrs).  Thats only about 7-9hrs and 50-55minmin worth of raid content, and most guilds around now (not all) are starting to get to this point on raid content...heh, a hardcore guild could really do it all in 1 day if they REALLY put their mind to it.  Avatars are a good addition yes, but we all know 1 guild always gets a monopoly on them simply because once you learn the strat, another guild probably will get 1-2 pulls before you kill it, makes it a lot harder.</p><p>Yeah, im talking from a raiders point of view because honestly if I was casual-non raider, I probably would have already quit because there is SO LITTLE to do as a non-raider (imo).  I've gotten my tinkering to 350 and J.C. to 70.  I honestly only play 4hrs on any given day (mostly raid days, we only have 4 and we gotta fill in the gaps with KoS crap).  Maybe Scott is right, you cant please everyone, but I think the problem here is they are hardly pleasing ANYONE.  EH is a joke right now simply because of patch days, the rendering bug actually screws with you...ugh. I mean look, KoS had Harla Dar, DT, AoAx4, HoS, and LoA plus a good handfull of contested in ToS and outside.  There was a lot more raid content and that one lasted a bit longer than 5 months before I was bored outta my mind...there was just more to do.  I dunno, I really think you need to grind to get AA and not get them through quests (maybe a small %) and really amp up the amount of AAs that there are to keep people busy and in the game. AAs are too easy to get thats one of the big major fallouts (that and class gear is [Removed for Content], should just be molds) beause that part of the game can be gone in a few weeks if you try to get em all, but if you make them harder to get, more to spend, and a non-tree AA setup all may be well...ugh I dunno, ive been ramblling...my 2 coppers.</p>

[Nuhus]

<p>People complained about KoS and DoF being buggy, no new guild rewards, missing TS/adventure writs etc. After KoS they announced that the 6 month cycle would be done away with so they could get finished content. Seriously your asking them to rush things. It will be unfinished. </p><p>It's not questionable, it's known. We had that cycle before. Right now their improving things that should have been improved along time ago. Wow, after about 3 years we can save our video profiles. </p>

[bleap]

there is an option here that would probably appease everyone...But I doubt it will ever happen.. How about an old world content revamp? They have done a little bit of it, but now that so many players have high level toons it would be really cool to have a revamp of zones like CT, Permafrost and maybe even add new instances... But it would still require some dev team member sto do this... Look at it like this...they can wait a year to release an expansion, bore the crap out of their end game customers, or release an expansion every 6-8 months...they could easily release nearly bug free complete expansions if they hired more people....Why don't they do that?

[Rahatmattata]

<p>I think an expansion once a year is just fine and about right, but the problem IMO is the game goes by too fast. Leveling up and grinding xp is too fast. There's not enough time sinks to keep players around. The drop rates are too high making it easy to get fabled out and almost fully mastered. If SOE would slow the game down so you can't just destroy all the content in a new expansion in a month people would stick around longer and wouldnt be so bored. Personally I'm about ready for a new MMO to come out that doesn't suck. I really had my hopes riding high for Vanguard but that ended up being a major disappointment. Lord of the Rings, Warcraft, Age of Conan don't appeal to me. If anything I might play EQLive or go back to FFXI cuz at least there you cant "win the game" in 3 months. </p><p>Another thing that really kills my gameplay is the fact its so hard to get groups levels 1-65. I like having the option of soloing while /lfg or when i only have an hour to play... but logging on and sitting in game for 4 hours checking the /lfg list and trying to put together groups in world chat because everyone is soloing really sucks. In order to make me happy the xp rate would need to be about 1/4th of what is currently is, rested xp needs to go away, and xp debt should be more like 2-3% debt per death... not 0.1% or w/e the hell it is. I also wouldn't mind the shard runs. I know this won't happen and most people would shudder if they did make the game like I just mentioned, which is why I'm ready for a new game.</p>

[bleap]

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think an expansion once a year is just fine and about right, but the problem IMO is the game goes by too fast. Leveling up and grinding xp is too fast. There's not enough time sinks to keep players around. The drop rates are too high making it easy to get fabled out and almost fully mastered. If SOE would slow the game down so you can't just destroy all the content in a new expansion in a month people would stick around longer and wouldnt be so bored. Personally I'm about ready for a new MMO to come out that doesn't suck. I really had my hopes riding high for Vanguard but that ended up being a major disappointment. Lord of the Rings, Warcraft, Age of Conan don't appeal to me. If anything I might play EQLive or go back to FFXI cuz at least there you cant "win the game" in 3 months. </p><p>Another thing that really kills my gameplay is the fact its so hard to get groups levels 1-65. I like having the option of soloing while /lfg or when i only have an hour to play... but logging on and sitting in game for 4 hours checking the /lfg list and trying to put together groups in world chat because everyone is soloing really sucks. In order to make me happy the xp rate would need to be about 1/4th of what is currently is, rested xp needs to go away, and xp debt should be more like 2-3% debt per death... not 0.1% or w/e the hell it is. I also wouldn't mind the shard runs. I know this won't happen and most people would shudder if they did make the game like I just mentioned, which is why I'm ready for a new game.</p></blockquote>The reason you can't find a group is because the server populations have dropped significantly..the reason the server populations have dropped is because they get bored doing the same old thing over and over after they have finished exploring the new content...So to fix your complaint there needs to be more new content on a more regular basis...In other words give us significant content updates in teh form of expansions or at least adventure packs more often....But it's not going to happen...it's a slipery slope that SOE cannot catch up to.. People leave because of lack of content... Subscriptions fall, profit drops... profit drops, SOE canot afford to higher more devs Lack of devs means slower added content, Slower added content means more people leave.. Rinse and repeat... Had SOE been advertising they would be in the spot they are in now... Now everything they try to do to fix it is a gamble... If I were in charge I would cut the subscription price by $3 a month and try to lure more people from WoW...then take teh additional profits, higher more Devs and get more content out faster...but for some reason SOE doesn't think they have any real competition....7 million people in the world think otherwise...

[Nuhus]

They'll never please everyone but I do agree they are pretty weak in advertising. More so the fact that their weak with making sure stores are stocking their product. Heck, I can't find it anywhere around here. W'W is generally pretty easy to find. I hate to compare. But it's true. People can't buy whats not there and majority are not going to buy it online.

[Norrsken]

In all games of this type, people will always sit bored at the endgame. Why? It takes longer to create content than to play through it. there it is, condensed into one, single line. with a shorter release cycle, you'll get nwe stuff more often, and it will be less, so you get bored faster, or it will be immensly bug ridden and have an unfinished feel.     Q   /   T-----S Thats Quality Time Size triangle. Pick one, cant have all three.

[Dragowulf]

um how long was WoW out with the little ammount of content it had before the first expansion?

[Nuhus]

lol

[liveja]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about an old world content revamp? They have done a little bit of it, but now that so many players have high level toons it would be really cool to have a revamp of zones like CT, Permafrost and maybe even add new instances... </blockquote>That would be nice. I just wouldn't want it to take away from building & testing new content, so as long as they could do both well I'd be happy.

[YeldarbSpiritbla]

<p>Seriously:</p><p>You guys need to go outside and enjoy the weather. Play with the kids. Make some real life friends. 5 level 70 toons? "I've done ALL the content in the whole game including Avatars, and 10,000 quests per character, and completed all my collections, and...", blah blah blah. I play a ton, 4 hours a day EVERY DAY and 16 hours on the weekend days and I have 3 level 70 toons and have PLENTY to do. I thought I was bad and had no life.</p><p>This game is geared towards casual players that play up to 30 hours a week. Advertised, printed and released that way, so OBVIOUSLY people that play 24/7 without eating or sleeping are going to blow through "ALL" the content.</p><p>WoW finally released their FIRST expansion in over 2 years, and it blew chunks. LotRO opened 1/3rd the size of the original EQ2 release AND with only 4 races and 7 classes. Be glad you're getting all the content you are getting. If you do have to "play other games" or "bide your time" then do so. Most people are still enjoying the content and having a blast. I'm enjoying welcoming the hundreds of refugees tired of no content in "that other game".</p>

[Talz]

Casual isn't something I would call thirty hours a week.

[Controlor]

I personally prefer the 1 year FULL expansion. I am upset tho that they have not and had said they WILL not put an adventure pack out for here. Adventure packs i like for the in between time. Maybe if you all didnt GRIND out as fast as you can to be the first to get to the end you wouldnt be bored so quickly. Slow down take your time enjoy yourself jeebus. I been playing since beta and i didnt reach my first lvl 70 toon till EoF was released because i took my time and enjoyed it. There were lvl 70 Fae befor i even hit 70 because they grinded out. It doesnt need a 6 month new expansion pack to not be bored you just need to slow down and not rush to be the FIRST to get finish.

[sayitaintso]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I personally prefer the 1 year FULL expansion. I am upset tho that they have not and had said they WILL not put an adventure pack out for here. Adventure packs i like for the in between time. Maybe if you all didnt GRIND out as fast as you can to be the first to get to the end you wouldnt be bored so quickly. Slow down take your time enjoy yourself jeebus. I been playing since beta and i didnt reach my first lvl 70 toon till EoF was released because i took my time and enjoyed it. There were lvl 70 Fae befor i even hit 70 because they grinded out. It doesnt need a 6 month new expansion pack to not be bored you just need to slow down and not rush to be the FIRST to get finish. </blockquote>Define a FULL expansion...does that include betrayal quests for new races? EoF was SERIOUSLY not complete when it was released.... Some of us LIKE to grind out to max level before we adventure into the rest of the expansion.. And yes I have 5 level 70 toons and I have a life outside of EQ2..in fact I only play EQ2 2 hours a night now that I am trying to prolong my last toon's advance to 70...It doesn't take that long to get to level 70....really the game is quite easy...even with questing (which is really good EXP) and grinding in a dungeon crawl...level 70 can be attained in just 12-14 days played...even only playing 2 hours a night thats just a couple months.Seeing as how the game is nearly 3 years old, it's easy to see why there are tons of people with multiple end game toons... You will never please everyone in a game of this magnitude...but I persoanlly think new content should be released a lot faster than it is...When they announced adventure pack they told us to expect 3-4 a year...We have had 3 in 2.5 years....plus unrest which was really just a high level dungeon crawl....So where are the devs that were suppose to work on those? Working now on the expansion not set for release for another 5+ months??? How long does it take to develop a new expansion? You know SOE is going to use most of the same mobs...Goblins, orcs, gnolls, undead that they have been using since release...Zone design isn't hard...writing new quests and strats for instances could take a little thought...but does it really take an entire year to put one together? Seriously I don't know the answer...but hire a few more DEVs and get thos promised adventure packs out to us at least....OK?

[Dimgl]

Really, I'd be happy with continuous non-gear progression. All they need to do is breadcrumb out more achievements, 10 in each tree every 2-3 months. The increasing requirements to level will slow it down over time, and it would at least put a little more meaning into the already existing content.

[sah]

Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote>You will never please everyone in a game of this magnitude...but I persoanlly think new content should be released a lot faster than it is...When they announced adventure pack they told us to expect 3-4 a year...We have had 3 in 2.5 years....plus unrest which was really just a high level dungeon crawl....So where are the devs that were suppose to work on those? Working now on the expansion not set for release for another 5+ months??? How long does it take to develop a new expansion? You know SOE is going to use most of the same mobs...Goblins, orcs, gnolls, undead that they have been using since release...Zone design isn't hard...writing new quests and strats for instances could take a little thought...but does it really take an entire year to put one together? Seriously I don't know the answer...but hire a few more DEVs and get thos promised adventure packs out to us at least....OK? </blockquote><p>The fact is, the more interesting and unique you want something to be, the longer it's going to take.  Unrest was released 3.5 months late but it is probably the most interesting and unique heroic instance in the game and still at the time of release, virtually every encounter had some bug associated with it.  Even something simple but still pretty exciting like the DFC revamp took 2.5 months and again there were serious bugs with it when it was released...Noone here can really say how easy or hard creating a new zone is unless you've done alot of professional game development, in which case you should send your resume to SOE and help them out...</p><p>As a previous poster said you really have two choices...less content with fewer bugs or more content with tons of bugs...Based on modern research in software engineering, every 10 lines of code adds a new bug...And just based on my experience with group projects in college, a single bad programmer can easily undo the work of several good programmers...Also, anyone who's done hiring for any company knows that hiring one bad employee can be many many times more costly than not hiring anyone at all... </p>

[InsertNeko]

I'd much rather have longer times between expansions, so I'm not feeling hurried to do everything. Up until now, the odds of getting eof fabled gear have been near zero. We've transmuted DOZENS and I mean DOZENS of fabled gear because no one could use them. So we've spend 5 months raiding with very little returns. We've spend 1/2 an expansion cycle doing this. Which means I will most likely not have even half my gear by the time the cap's raised and we move on to another series of "will my gear drop" all over again. Yes, granted they fixed the drop tables and I'm hoping I won't play this part again, but do we really need expansions tossed at us so fast that we're only half way done with one when the next hits? I loved KOS. KOS was the most fun I've ever had in Eq2, and while EOF is nice and pretty and all, I'm not having the fun i had in KOS. I hope the next expansion recaptures KOS's fun, but I don't want it in 3 months or "too soon" or what have you. 10-12 months is good for expansions, with free zones and AA increases every 10-12 months opposite the expansions. I'd also like a level cap increase every OTHER expansion, but that's a topic for another day (a very angry topic too, from what i've seen). I'm hoping SOE will lower the drop rates in the next expansion and make the xp needed for 71-80 be REALLY HUGE, so I'm not hitting 80 in a month or fully fabled out again in 6 weeks

[Bushmasta]

I have the perfect solution that your all going to hate. Everyone who complains about not haveing anything to do make at toon on one of the PvP server. Pvp is the only way to create your own on going content, u can go to the same places and fight the same people and something different will happen every time because u have another person back there makeing the decisions, isntead of doing the same raids u and your awesome PVE guild has done a bajillion times.  Hell PvP servers put a nice twist on raiding because sometimes u have to fight another raid for the right to raid lol.  PvP is good at filling the blanks between content releases look at how freakin packed naggy is.

[sayitaintso]

Bushmasta@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>I have the perfect solution that your all going to hate. Everyone who complains about not haveing anything to do make at toon on one of the PvP server. Pvp is the only way to create your own on going content, u can go to the same places and fight the same people and something different will happen every time because u have another person back there makeing the decisions, isntead of doing the same raids u and your awesome PVE guild has done a bajillion times.  Hell PvP servers put a nice twist on raiding because sometimes u have to fight another raid for the right to raid lol.  PvP is good at filling the blanks between content releases look at how freakin packed naggy is. </blockquote>Would lov to, but SOE priced Station Acess out of my price range so I can't make any more toons. 6 level 70 toons and no new content....BOOOOORING!

[Novusod]

I like how the new development cycle works but if you are not an alt-aholic and only play 70 toons then I would sympathize with people who find this borring. My solution to 70s bordom is in the next LU they should open another raid zone for 70s. They could do this easy by taking a zone like Permafrost and making it into an instance with low 70s epic x4s. The zone itself almost feels like a raid zone given its size and lay out. I was in there the other day on an alt and thought about it. They could really just switch out with every mob with an epic and it would be fine. Commander Keg would be [Removed for Content] tough if he was epic and there is no obvious place to park him. The boss of the zone would be a very hard Vox dragon 75 epic x4. I hope this is so obvious that the devs kick themselves right now and say: "why didn't I think of that?"

[bleap]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like how the new development cycle works but if you are not an alt-aholic and only play 70 toons then I would sympathize with people who find this borring. My solution to 70s bordom is in the next LU they should open another raid zone for 70s. They could do this easy by taking a zone like Permafrost and making it into an instance with low 70s epic x4s. The zone itself almost feels like a raid zone given its size and lay out. I was in there the other day on an alt and thought about it. They could really just switch out with every mob with an epic and it would be fine. Commander Keg would be [I cannot control my vocabulary] tough if he was epic and there is no obvious place to park him. The boss of the zone would be a very hard Vox dragon 75 epic x4. I hope this is so obvious that the devs kick themselves right now and say: "why didn't I think of that?" </blockquote>Raid zone??? What about for the majority of level 70 players that chose not to join raid guilds? A lot of us don't have the time to raid 5, 6, 7 night a week.. We need content for the casual or PUG player....and it has to be more than just one dungeon or instance..How many times can you do a dungeon or instance crawl before it gets boring again... It's really sad to think that this is the best SOE has to offer as far as creativity goes...EQ1 had so much more meaningful content....What we need is an LDoN type expansion where every time you went into one of the instances you never knew what type MoBs you would face or what kind of loot would drop.... <b> Give us an expansion with about a dozen or so LDoN type instances with a HUGE loot table with randomly selected encounters and then about every 6 months add 2-3 more zones to it and additions to the MoB types and loot drops...Then assign points for completing these instances to be used to "purchase" mounts, armor, weapons and housing....Very similar to what EQ1 had....</b>

[liveja]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>What about for the majority of level 70 players that chose not to join raid guilds? A lot of us don't have the time to raid 5, 6, 7 night a week</blockquote><p>You mean, people like me?</p><p>I have the time; I don't have the interest, nor do I wish to leave my small, happy, cozy, friends-&-family guild. So that pretty much leaves out choosing to join a raid guild.</p><p>Nonetheless, at level 70, I'm pretty far from having exhausted the content. For example, I've never once done either Vaults of El'Arad or Blackscale Sepulcher, I've barely been into Mistmoore, I've done almost no fighting in Kaladim or New Tunaria, I've still not done the Hoo'loh's Hat quest, I've barely begun the Claymore & MOA quests, I've got heroic HQ's to do, collection quests to finish, a house to [Removed for Content] out, Masters I still need to find .....</p><p>& that's not even counting all the stuff in DOF I've never done. I don't even want to think of all the things in DOF I've never done. & let's not forget that at level 70, I'm only a level 17 Sage because I loathe tradeskilling. & don't get me started on the lower level content (scads of it) that I missed on my climb to 70, that I'm going back over with alts.</p><p>I've barely scratched the surface of this game. Contrast that with WoW, pre-expac, where a level 60 non-raider had pretty much zilcho after a year of running the same instances over & over & over & over & over & over & over again. Unless that is, you want to do PvP faction grinding against raid-geared uber-leets <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Noaani]

Stinkii@Guk wrote: <blockquote>And with everything EoF brought to the game there are MANY people who have become bored because they have done nearly everything that can be done in EoF....So what now? Be bored with the current content or move to another game? </blockquote><p>Are you saying that the reason people at level 70 are bored with EoF is because of the development cycle?</p><p>I'll let you in on a (not so) little secret. people that were level 70 pre EoF, and are now bored, are not that way due to the development cycle SoE have now. In fact, if they continue the 9 - 12 month development cycle, those players would likely be very happy.</p><p>The reason these players are bored is because EoF had such a small portion of its content aimed at T7 players. If SoE continue to take 9 months to put out expansions, continue to make them the size of EoF, and aim them fully at end game players, people will be happy.</p><p>9 months is good, 12 months is ok, as long as the content is on the same level EoF was.</p><p>Also, you said EoF was incomplete. Tell me one major (or minor for that matter) feature that was promised in EoF, pre release, that was no there on release day. Betrayal was never promised, it was assumed. Unrest was never promised, it was assumed. What was promised and not delivered on at release? </p>

[Noaani]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>Raid zone??? What about for the majority of level 70 players that chose not to join raid guilds? A lot of us don't have the time to raid 5, 6, 7 night a week.. </blockquote><p>lol, comments like this always ammuse me.</p><p>One day, when you can be nothered proving yourself wrong, ask in the level 70 chat on your server for players to tell you if they do or do not raid at all, on any toon they may have. The vast majority would tell you they do raid. Players with toons at level 70 that do not raid are in the minority at this stage in the game, and it has been that way since the end of T5.</p><p>As for joining a raiding guild, whatever.</p><p>My guild is not a raiding guild. we are a guild, we raid, we do alright for ourselves too (FTH, Clockwork, MMiS except Mayong on farm status, third floor in EH). We raid, we are a guild, that does not make us a raiding guild.</p><p>Also, there are raiding alliances that do VERY well with raids (as well as my guild does in some cases). There are people that organise raids for anyone that wants to go along (my server has someone organise raids that clear all of KoS content twice a week).</p><p>Getting in to raiding is easy, which is why the majority of players at 70 raid...</p><p>Should SoE add a new zone to the game now with the intention of giving level 70 players more to do, and keeping in mind they want the most amount of player hours spent in there as possible, a raid zone is the best answer. A new heroic zone will see an influx of people the first few weeks, then it will fall off to only a handful of groups doing it. A raid zone will continue to be used by the majority of level 70 players until the level cap is increased.</p>

[Lleinen]

Yeah Im casual too, only about 4 hours a day 4 days a week (sometimes 6hrs a day for EH, but rarely)...if that. My guild has cleared every instance in EoF and is working on Avatars. I dont get the argument by casuals that raiders raid 5,6,7 days a week, personally, we exhaust all raid content in 3 days = (I dont count KoS and DoF, been there way too much as is) But then again, to open this argument up is always bad, but anyway...you dont have to be hardcore to raid...thats all I'm gunna say. You CHOOSE not to raid for w/e reason, my guild...well, we are all friends and family type as well, but we chose to do raiding too.

[bleap]

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>Raid zone??? What about for the majority of level 70 players that chose not to join raid guilds? A lot of us don't have the time to raid 5, 6, 7 night a week.. </blockquote><p>lol, comments like this always ammuse me.</p><p>One day, when you can be nothered proving yourself wrong, ask in the level 70 chat on your server for players to tell you if they do or do not raid at all, on any toon they may have. The vast majority would tell you they do raid. Players with toons at level 70 that do not raid are in the minority at this stage in the game, and it has been that way since the end of T5.</p><p>As for joining a raiding guild, whatever.</p><p>My guild is not a raiding guild. we are a guild, we raid, we do alright for ourselves too (FTH, Clockwork, MMiS except Mayong on farm status, third floor in EH). We raid, we are a guild, that does not make us a raiding guild.</p><p>Also, there are raiding alliances that do VERY well with raids (as well as my guild does in some cases). There are people that organise raids for anyone that wants to go along (my server has someone organise raids that clear all of KoS content twice a week).</p><p>Getting in to raiding is easy, which is why the majority of players at 70 raid...</p><p>Should SoE add a new zone to the game now with the intention of giving level 70 players more to do, and keeping in mind they want the most amount of player hours spent in there as possible, a raid zone is the best answer. A new heroic zone will see an influx of people the first few weeks, then it will fall off to only a handful of groups doing it. A raid zone will continue to be used by the majority of level 70 players until the level cap is increased.</p></blockquote>No, the majority do not raid 5,6,7 nights a week...they may raid a couple nights, they might do PURs but the majority of players are not hard core raiders....there aren't enough hard core raid guilds (on Guk at least) to support your claim...the majority of level 70 players do NOT raid hard core...and those are the ones I was speaking of... But thanks for playing...

[Lleinen]

<p>Neh, dont even bother with that argument, all its gunna do is derail the thread</p><p>/bow to casuals</p>

[sayitaintso]

<cite>Lleinen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Neh, dont even bother with that argument, all its gunna do is derail the thread</p><p>/bow to casuals</p></blockquote>That's because if you do the math you will see Bleap is correct. 1000-1500 players on average per night on Guk and most are in PUG groups or trade skill instances..Do a who all 70 and take a look at the list...you get 100 names, 70% will not be in raid zones....during peak raid times... There are guilds that raid 2 maybe 3 nights a week..I could probably do that if I didn't mind staying up until 1-2 AM on those nights...But I live on the east coast...so byt the time it's time to raid on the west coast it's already nearing my bed time...Some of us DO have jobs and lives outside of EQ2...

[Novusod]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like how the new development cycle works but if you are not an alt-aholic and only play 70 toons then I would sympathize with people who find this borring. My solution to 70s bordom is in the next LU they should open another raid zone for 70s. They could do this easy by taking a zone like Permafrost and making it into an instance with low 70s epic x4s. The zone itself almost feels like a raid zone given its size and lay out. I was in there the other day on an alt and thought about it. They could really just switch out with every mob with an epic and it would be fine. Commander Keg would be [I cannot control my vocabulary] tough if he was epic and there is no obvious place to park him. The boss of the zone would be a very hard Vox dragon 75 epic x4. I hope this is so obvious that the devs kick themselves right now and say: "why didn't I think of that?" </blockquote>Raid zone??? What about for the majority of level 70 players that chose not to join raid guilds? A lot of us don't have the time to raid 5, 6, 7 night a week.. We need content for the casual or PUG player....and it has to be more than just one dungeon or instance..How many times can you do a dungeon or instance crawl before it gets boring again... </blockquote>They have been bowing to casuals for the last 6 months. EoF was mostly for casuals. New Tunaria, Kaladim, and Castle Mistmore are examples of EoF content the casuals hardly even use. Casuals got Unrest and the Warg quests. Did you even know they completely re-did Deathfist Citidel in LU33? Even a 70 can go there and get 3 aa killing the 15 or so named. Pluss there is whole new set of rare crafting books in there for tradeskillers. The thing is most 70s have raided at least a few times in the last couple of months and as a result have some raid gear that is better than anything that drops in the instances or other casual zones. It is Itemization that gets players motivated to come out and play. Players stop doing instances when they get their raid gear and that is where the majority of players are right now. That is why I think it is time for another raid zone. Please throw the raider population a bone.

[xOnaton1]

I don't know how many of you were around at the end of 2005 or beginning of 2006 when Kingdom of Sky was announced, but there was a pretty big outcry that it was way too soon for another expansion with a new level cap. When people heard that EQ2 was going to be on a ~10 months per expansion schedule most reactions I remember were positive. I don't know how EQ Live works with its twice a year expansions but I think that schedule is pretty unique in the game industry. I like EQ2's expansion cycle much better myself. For my purposes, I call players that play a lot, "hardcore," and players that play less than that, "casual." EQ2 has become more casual-friendly compared to when it was first released, from changes like converting overland zones to be mostly solo, increasing XP gains, increasing quest XP, removing spirit shards from death, removing group XP debt, increasing travel speed, etc. It's a difficult job to balance gameplay across the range of casual to hardcore. I think WoW and economics influenced this change though. These days a big MMO has to be casual friendly, to an extent, to compete in the market. Any hardcore player will play through content much faster than it can be produced by the developers. There's just no way of getting around that. One way of alleviating that problem is XP vitality, giving you twice as much XP when you have it. I think that type of mechanic could be expanded to be possibly a sliding scale, making the difference more than 2x and include quests, collections, and discovery XP. The other thing we've gotten more recently is diminishing returns curves on most stats and skills. That way you can have twice as much strength but not be twice as strong. Other than that I think you have to look at your own playstyle. As a player you can pace yourself if you think you're going to "run out of things to do." How many players complaining they've run out of things to do have done more than 2000 quests? If so, you still have a few hundred more you can do. If you don't like doing quests, that's your choice to limit yourself to a portion of the content available. If you really want a challenge you should try starting a new character and play with combat XP always off. Each level is much more of an accomplishment when they don't come blindingly fast. In the end if you've burnt out on this venue of entertainment you may just have to look somewhere else. TV series only have 20 something episodes per season. The third Spiderman movie is coming out five years after the first one. The fifth Harry Potter movie is coming out six years after the first one. If they could be produced faster and make a profit, without killing the people making them I'm sure they would be. Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLere Vaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere

[Bewts]

<p>Don't have enough content at the top of the game?  Play an alt like everyone else.  Log your main in to raid, play an alt whenever you get bored.  Level a Fae, or play a class from the opposite city you leveled in first.  Theres plenty of content to do.</p>

[Araxes]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about an old world content revamp? </blockquote> Stick around.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  DFC was only the first step.  Look at what's going on in and around Fallen Gate.  Look at what's happening in the Commonlands, look at the new militia presence around Freeport.  And I'd venture a guess that the unused tier 4 and tier 5 zones like Feerott, Everfrost, and Lavastorm will be getting some interesting overhauls down the line, as well.  Partly this is to tie in with the upcoming expansion - no doubt about it - but it also shows an overall design trend, which is that the development team is committed to maintaining and revising older zones when they have become obsolete.  It's not a new trend, exactly, but it's coming into play more, now, as the game ages - they did, afterall, revamp many of the overland zones, as the game rounded the 1 year mark.  Now we are well into the 3rd year, and we can see that this early trend has become a tent-pole strategy.  And a very good one, I think.  It keeps players interested between expansions, while also opening up some new lore, explaining some old lore, and generally paving the way for upcoming expansions.  Whetting appetites so to say. That leads me to the crux of my reply - in answer to the OP's thoughts. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.  You want quality and you want content ... but you can't get those two things on a six-month release cycle.  You want something to do at the endgame, and you want it to take up a large chunk of your playing time, from what you imply, you want it to occupy the entirety of your play time from one expansion to the next ... so that is what the developers are trying to give you by releasing things like Unrest, revamping zones like DFC, adding in a new mount like the warg, adding in new lore with each LU, and so forth.  Yet you aren't happy with that, either.  So which is it?  Get my point?  You can't have it both ways. Is it a fountain of content in each Game Update?  No, of course not.  They are working with limited resources, that should be clear to anyone who's followed this game since launch.  Therein lies the issue.  So they are doing the best they can to appease the largest number of people.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> They should be commended that they release as much as they do, as often as they do, and still work on sizable expansions in the meantime. It was made clear after EoF, in what I think was the most recent community newsletter sent out, that the development plan would be to take 10-12 months per expansion.  The critical ratings for EoF were far better, and I think I saw a much more positive community response overall -- being someone who has been here since day one and seen the very worst of what has been said -- than they were for KoS or DoF, good as those were.  SOE recognized -- the developers recognized -- that by taking that extra time to develop, they could put out a superior product.  They stated they would forego adventure packs, and forego the 6-8 month cycle, in favor of larger Live Updates and much larger expansions.  So far, they seem to be doing just that.  When did we ever get a new mount the past tow years?  Never.  When did we ever see a dungeon zone revamped like DFC was?  Never.  Remind yourself - it HAS only been just over 5 months since EoF.  Think about that.  Finally, I'm not really sure where you ever got the notion that the upcoming expansion would not have just as much content as EoF.  If anything -- the exact opposite.  Reaction to EoF was positively strong and they took note.  Hence the entire reason for changing development cycle.  Stating that the next expansion will not have as much content as this one - which is purely your unsubstantiated opinion, and actually contrary to all indications so far - is plain ignorance, in the literal sense.  Well, that's my piece.  A four page thread is rarely a good thing but I tried to keep as civil as possible about it, this late in.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  See you on AB ~

[Rahatmattata]

<cite>Araxes wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>When did we ever get a new mount the past tow years?  <strike>Never.</strike>  </p><p><img src="http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/872/getimagebm3.jpg" border="0"> </p><p>When did we ever see a dungeon zone revamped like DFC was?  <strike>Never.</strike></p><p><i>LU22 and 23 revamped Wailing Caves and Blackburrow nerfing Lord Ree to heroic, fixing the spikes in WC along with other traps and revamping the loot tables. Other zones have been revamped before to like the lowbie isle and the Ruins, and several other zones.</i></p><p><i>I think honestly the content is about right but the time it takes to "beat" the content is too fast.</i></p></blockquote>The Warg and DFC revamp are not "new" things SOE is doing, as you can see this kind of stuff has been going on for quite some time. I'm always suprised how quickly people forget about the hover platform and other zone revamps (and epic nerfs) that go on all the time.

[metacell]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>In all games of this type, people will always sit bored at the endgame. Why? It takes longer to create content than to play through it. </blockquote>Oh no, I don't like where this is going... You mean we have to play LESS than 40 hrs/week?

[Frigid2000]

<p>People who are complaining about having nothing to do, seriously make me sigh.</p><p>I'm going to immediately name another game that will not be mentioned here, but I know you will guess what I am talking about.  How about a development cycle of 1.5 YEARS for an expansion and then blowing through it in two weeks, easy.  </p><p>And you are complaining about this game?  Either you've never played an MMO before or you are just plain impatient.</p><p>Stop playing 90 hours a week and go do something else.  And the fact you don't want to raid isn't Sony's problem, imo.</p>

[Kir]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aera wrote:</cite><blockquote>Have you ever played EQ Live?  It runs in the 6 month expansion plan and the content in their expansion packs--especially the higher-end stuff, usually--is broken.  No, thanks.  I'd rather wait longer for bug-free content.</blockquote>EQ1 (LIVE) never had bad problems with broken expansions until the development team responsible was forced by SOE to take on a different product...EQ2. When that happened SOE used (and still presumably does) interns and inexperienced people to continue development for EQ1. That's why some of their latests expansions have come out broken or incomplete...But the last 2 EQ2 expansions have been released both broken and incomplete and they had a full year to develop them! 2 expansion a year would be great. It would help prevent so much "leak" to other games when people get board with the content. Most of the new expansions can be explored and discovered in 6 months easily....So why does SOE feel the need to bore players for 6 months...People get bored and people leave...Sure, some come back for a new expansion, but as soon as they feel they have done and seen it all off they go again...Give us 2 expansions a year would help decrease those numbers... </blockquote> This is simply not true.  Parts of Kunark were broken and unfinished on release.  same with Velious, parts were broken and unfinished on release.  SoL had broken content and was also unfinished on release.  I would much rather have ONE good expansion a year then 2 half done. As at a matter of fact, I can not think of ONE eq1 expansion I completed that our guild did not have to wait for the devs to fix for us to continue on.  Maybe for the average user who never happened upon the "end game" of each content addition, or only had obtained access to these area's after most of the major guilds already did them.. but for guilds who were on the cutting edge most of the time we had to wait for devs to finish the content before we could complete it.

[sayitaintso]

Degenerate@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote><cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aera wrote:</cite><blockquote>Have you ever played EQ Live?  It runs in the 6 month expansion plan and the content in their expansion packs--especially the higher-end stuff, usually--is broken.  No, thanks.  I'd rather wait longer for bug-free content.</blockquote>EQ1 (LIVE) never had bad problems with broken expansions until the development team responsible was forced by SOE to take on a different product...EQ2. When that happened SOE used (and still presumably does) interns and inexperienced people to continue development for EQ1. That's why some of their latests expansions have come out broken or incomplete...But the last 2 EQ2 expansions have been released both broken and incomplete and they had a full year to develop them! 2 expansion a year would be great. It would help prevent so much "leak" to other games when people get board with the content. Most of the new expansions can be explored and discovered in 6 months easily....So why does SOE feel the need to bore players for 6 months...People get bored and people leave...Sure, some come back for a new expansion, but as soon as they feel they have done and seen it all off they go again...Give us 2 expansions a year would help decrease those numbers... </blockquote> This is simply not true.  Parts of Kunark were broken and unfinished on release.  same with Velious, parts were broken and unfinished on release.  SoL had broken content and was also unfinished on release.  I would much rather have ONE good expansion a year then 2 half done. As at a matter of fact, I can not think of ONE eq1 expansion I completed that our guild did not have to wait for the devs to fix for us to continue on.  Maybe for the average user who never happened upon the "end game" of each content addition, or only had obtained access to these area's after most of the major guilds already did them.. but for guilds who were on the cutting edge most of the time we had to wait for devs to finish the content before we could complete it. </blockquote>those issues affected a small minority of end game players and were repaired fairly quickly. It's been 6 months since bugs like the rendering issue started and that is still broken...It took 5 months to finish the Fae betrayal quest.  EQ1s bugs have become far worse and less likely to be repaired quickly since the development was turned over to the inexperienced people developing the new expansion...It's like they took a page from the EQ2 devs book...Don't worry about the bugs, just design new content to be added in tiny patches for a year until a new expansion is released.... We were promised 3-4 adventure packs a year...we got 3 in 30 months...that's a little over 1 a year....Once again SOE drops the ball and can't deliver what they told us we would get....

[Lleinen]

<cite>Frigid2000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>People who are complaining about having nothing to do, seriously make me sigh.</p><p>I'm going to immediately name another game that will not be mentioned here, but I know you will guess what I am talking about.  How about a development cycle of 1.5 YEARS for an expansion and then blowing through it in two weeks, easy.  </p><p>And you are complaining about this game?  Either you've never played an MMO before or you are just plain impatient.</p><p>Stop playing 90 hours a week and go do something else.  And the fact you don't want to raid isn't Sony's problem, imo.</p></blockquote><p>sigh, you "casuals" are missing the point...technically im a "casual raider" and only play 14hrs in 7 days and have already exhausted all the content... thats the problem, stop throwing out your 90 hour a week bullsnot, im playing 14hrs (<b>if that</b>) a week and theres NOTHING to do but raid. I still believe someone earlier in this post got it right, they made most the content in EoF for lvls 1 to 70 instead of just 50-70 or something, therefore more content overall, but less for your level range.</p>

[Noaani]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, the majority do not raid 5,6,7 nights a week...they may raid a couple nights, they might do PURs but the majority of players are not hard core raiders....there aren't enough hard core raid guilds (on Guk at least) to support your claim...the majority of level 70 players do NOT raid hard core...and those are the ones I was speaking of... But thanks for playing... </blockquote><p>I am gonna jump on this comment, even though it may derail the thread. Sorry, but I can't let ignorance like this pass without comment.</p><p>NO hardcore raiders raid current raid content 5 6 7 nights a week! NONE OF THEM!</p><div align="center"><u><i><b>NOT EVEN ONE PERSON</b></i></u> <div align="left"><div align="left">How can I be so sure about this? Simple, there are only four days a week worth of 'current' raid content in the game. <div align="left">Clockwork and Freethinkers on day one. Clockwork takes 20 minutes TOPS from zonein (no, not because hardcore players do things fast, because in order to kill it, you need to do it that fast...). Freethinkers takes an hour or so. So, all up, on day 1 of the week, you have 2 hours of raiding, which includes travel time between the zones. <div align="left">Day 2 is MMiS. This zone will take about 2 hours as well, if you take your time. Day 3 is EH. This one is much longer, 5 - 6 hours for top guilds.Day 4 is Clockwork and FTH again, since they have a 3 day 20 hour lockout.</div>Days 5 6 and 7, sorry, you are not a top end raider for these three days, as you are LOCKED OUT OF EVERY END GAME ZONE.</div>After that, its kill PPH, contested Mayong and whatever Avbatar happens to be up, but contested content is not something to be taken in to account in this.</div>You, Bleap, obviously have no idea about raiding, and thus should not bother to comment on it. If you had even the most vauge understanding of current raid content, you would be aware that there is 4 days worth of raiding, 2 of which are identical. Please do not bother to comment on raid content in this game again until you learn a little about it, as any missconceptions you put forth on raiding will be jumped upon by myself and others, and you WILL post misconceptions if your total understanding of raiding in this game does not even include what content there is to raid.</div>Edit: as to the comment that most players 'may' do pick up raids... I'm sorry, these are still raids. Pick up raids are as capable of using any new raiding content as much as any guild is, so this argument here is rather pathetic and weak. If SoE wants new content to actually be used, and continue to be used until the next expansion, a raid zone is the best option. Period. Prime time on my server, looking at the level channels and other channels used to form gruops, there is usually 5 or 6 groups looking for players to do instances such as OoB, CoV, Unrest and whatever else. On any given night, there is usually 3 - 4 raids in FTH. You do the math.</div>

[Noaani]

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Warg and DFC revamp are not "new" things SOE is doing, as you can see this kind of stuff has been going on for quite some time. I'm always suprised how quickly people forget about the hover platform and other zone revamps (and epic nerfs) that go on all the time. </blockquote><p>Yeah, SoE have revamped a lot of zones. Ones that come to mind...</p><p>Commonlands Wailing Caves Fallen Gate Nektolus Forrest Nektrpos Castle Blackburrow Stormhold Ruins of Varsoon Runnyeye Permafrost Temple of Casic Thule Soluseks Eye Forrest Ruins The Caves Oakmyst Forrest The Peat Bog</p><p>I know there are some I am missing (all of the Freeport nub zones...).</p><p>So yeah, zone revamps have been a 'thing' with EQ2 for a long while, and virtually every old world zone has gone through at one. </p>

[SignumX]

The problem is they are adding content to low level zones and not raiding zones. Hmm revamp commonlands or add a raid zone? Move mobs around Nektolus or add an instance? EQ2 is not getting any new players and the "lowbies" are just alts of bored high level toons. I never thought i'd say this but its time for a Planes of Power style expansion for EQ2.

[kenm]

Actually, they rarely add content to lowbie zones when they revamp them.  I seem to recall the Commonlands revamp breaking a load of quests for awhile, while not really adding anything to the zone. And when they revamped the low level zones such as Caves, Peat Bog, Oakmyst Forest?  They only removed about 100 quests that utilized those zones from all over town while throwing in a short quest line into each zone.  I've never actually counted, but I'm fairly certain there's actually a net loss of content from that.  It also makes the newbie experience completely empty to what it was at launch, since you can run all over town and have only a few quests to do. But I wonder what the heck SOE is thinking.  Who in their right mind is going to say "Holy crap, SOE removed a bunch of quests, shifted around the mob population, and redid the loot table to a zone that anybody will outlevel in one day of playing.  I have to buy EQ2 now!"?  I don't think anybody would, it sounds idiotic.  Now, on the other hand, I could certainly see somebody wanting to play EQ2 if SOE was adding a new raid zone every week... /sigh

[mellowknees72]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ1 (LIVE) never had bad problems with broken expansions until the development team responsible was forced by SOE to take on a different product...EQ2. </blockquote><p> Wow...that's not at all how I remember EQ1.  I seem to recall that ANY time there was a large patch or expansion, most of us knew to not even bother logging in on the first night because there would be so many things broken or not functioning as intended.  Pretty much every large patch brought 2-4 additional smaller patches to fix everything that was broken.</p>

[ToiletBomb]

Pipes@Najena wrote: <blockquote><cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ1 (LIVE) never had bad problems with broken expansions until the development team responsible was forced by SOE to take on a different product...EQ2. </blockquote><p> Wow...that's not at all how I remember EQ1.  I seem to recall that ANY time there was a large patch or expansion, most of us knew to not even bother logging in on the first night because there would be so many things broken or not functioning as intended.  Pretty much every large patch brought 2-4 additional smaller patches to fix everything that was broken.</p></blockquote>LOL pipes I was thinking the same thing. Expansion releases I pre-ordered but wouldn't log on until after the first few days.  I remember most patches introducing things like "omg head to EF loot is popping on the ground" to say the least.  Yes I played pre-kunark and onward for a good amount of time.  Patching was downright scary.  Expansions were worse. I can honestly say most MMOs I've seen since then have done a tremendously better job with patching, updating, and expansions.  People need to relax.

[Lleinen]

<p>PoP was awsome, fav expac next to velious by far, ...and hell, I never remember staying LFG in eq1 for hours like I do/have done in EQ2 I mean though, really, you gotta feed your higher levels more than your lower levels at this point...there just SO MUCH content for 1-50 and so LITTLE for 65-70s to do.  Dont add more levels, add more AAs and more content (instances, raid zones) to keep your big hunk of people in the game still.</p><p>Make Iksars start in FP still and have to make their way to Cabilis to call it home again, that way you can hike the levels around Cabilis to around 40-50+ to make it not easy to get to...dunno, just me...?  I just dont see the point in adding more 1-50 stuff...just dont =(</p>

[MalevolenceXXX]

I think that until the Dev team comes up with something truly innovative, high level chars will continue to be bored. EoF had what, exactly that was new, innovative, and exciting?  The Fae race, new achievements, Deities, Transmutation, and Tinkering.  And of course new zones. IMO, Fae were done well, the achievements were neat but not great (in most cases).  Deities were awesome.  Transmutation by far the worst thing ever to happen to EQ2, and tinkering... meh.  What about the rest of EoF?  Loping Plains is absolutey dull to look at, BB is pretty well done, LFay is ok but annoying, GFay is beautiful but very annoying to move around in, Kaladim is fun, MM is exciting but pretty dull to look at.  Klak is huge fun.  Etc. Ok now PLEASE don't bash everything that I said, those are my opinions and mine only. THE POINT IS, that there really was not very much innovative in the last expansion.  At least they made the attempt though!  WHAT THEY NEED TO DO is be innovative.  They have to come out with something brand new that really amazes and excites the EQ2 population. There is no end to the list of cool things they could do to this game.  But as long as all they do is add more zones and monsters, people will continue to be bored.  Something brand new and completely innovative.  Like... Conj/necro pets that actually get more powerful the longer they survive. Weapons that can grow in power the longer you use them. A complete overhaul of City Zones that actually breathes life into them.  Rather than a bunch of mindless zombies wandering around and/or doing nothing.  You know... actually making them feel like cities?!?! Adornments on armor that actually show up visibly.  Such as armor spikes actually show up as spikes on the armor (imagine that!). Armor dyes. Tons of new mount options.   Being able to attack with your mount while you are attacking. Not filling high level zones with high level monsters.  Is it really all that bad to have a bunch of level 10 goblins wandering around fixing tents and fishing in a level 70 zone???  Do we have to have crocodiles be level 65 just because they are in a level 60+ zones? Lions that roam in packs (omg!) Elephants and zebras and roam in herds (now youve done it...) Investing your life and/or power into an item to make it more powerful... your max hp/power is reduced while you have made this investiture... Different monsters to fight besides gnolls and orcs and skeletons?!!?  How about making combat more exciting.... monsters that go get others/yell for help, try to surround you, block off exits... I'm not saying all these ideas are great, or even good.  Heck you may think they all suck. THE POINT IS, you can't just keep a game interesting by adding more things to kill and more stuff to look at.  You have to make it more FUN. You know.... FUN?!?! By the way, I personally think they have done an excellent job at making the game alot more FUN than it was when it was released.  Take tradeskilling for instance... even if it isn't more "fun" it sure is a lot less PAINFUL.  And some of us think less painful is more fun, heh. And I really think forcing a development cycle on a DEV team will only force them to release content before it is ready.  I'd rather have well-designed, well-tested, FUN content, rather than every 6 months yet more recycled zones. Shill, 70Conj Lucan D'Lere

[MalevolenceXXX]

Drewx wrote: <blockquote> <p> 1. SOE can make high lvl gameplay more enjoyable and longer by make leveling up SLOWER. This game was designed with the casual player in mind and the hardcore player. Its one the games best feature however, even casual players will say that leveling is too easy even after level 60 you can get a level a day.</p><p>In the next expansion they need to make the grind to 80 a long run. I got my alt to level 35 in the time it takes to get a character to level 20 in FFXI, and way before I could get a character to 30 in EQLive. EQLive's grinds are tediously long. SOE needs to find a mid point and lengthen the level grind so players can't hit the peak of their power in days. </p></blockquote>I couldnt agree more.  It is insane how fast people get to 70 nowadays.  What ever happened to "enjoy the path to get there" instead of "get there as fast as you can". I've said it before and I'll say it again.  BRING BACK DEATH PENALTIES.  No one cares if you die any more.  Hell I die just to get back to the start of the zone quicker.  Its my "Xp Debt Evac". I LIKED having to get your shard back to save some XP debt.  It rewarded the streamlined groups who work well together vs those who die all the time. But, noooo EQ2 had to compete with WoW.  WoW is successful because it is easy.  Hello pathetic XP debt.  Hello no more death shards.  Hello plat farmers who can get to 70 in a week.  Dumb.  Dumb dumb dumb.

[interstellarmatter]

<cite>MalevolenceXXX wrote:</cite><blockquote>THE POINT IS, that there really was not very much innovative in the last expansion.  At least they made the attempt though!  WHAT THEY NEED TO DO is be innovative.  They have to come out with something brand new that really amazes and excites the EQ2 population. </blockquote><p> In LOTRO, you can design your music with your instrument.  People gather around the square for hours listening to each play.  Sounds stupid, but it keeps people entertain on something besides adventuring.</p><p>Not saying that you have instruments, but little things like this make a difference in a game.  /gems was a stupid little game but people spent an ungodly time playing it.  Not everything has to be about adventure.  That's why we keep hitting a wall in EQ2 as far as content.  The only thing to do is craft or kill.  New social outlets would go a long way here.  Look at Second Life.  No adventure..all social.  But people love it.</p>

[PsiberDaemon]

I wouldn't be opposed to 1 Adventure Pak and 1 Full Expansion a year...  but I'd rather wait and get a quality product than have them rush something through that I spend 3 months muttering over how it's still being patched. As for end-game ennui...  I completely understand...  I have a lvl 70 toon and I don't really adventure with him anymore.  I just wander aimlessly around old zones, collecting and gathering for my younger toons.  Oh, I still raid, every chance I get, but if I have to do one more stupid writ for those damned Basilisks in Bonemire, I'll scream.  So I just use him to help out my alts. That's an alternate suggestion.  It worked for me, maybe it will work for others.  Create a different toon.  Played a Mage type on your main?  Try your hand at a Zerker or Monk or something!  Got Qeynosians?  Try being naughty, get yourself a Freeportian! maybe this'll help.

[Limoj]

<p>To address the notion of buggy content. Most people claim to be a developer in some flavor; most of those people couldn't program their way out of a wet paper bag.</p><p>I will draw this analogy to help non technical people grasp the concept. </p><p>Lets say you have to write a doctorate thesis of 350,000 words on any subject. You take a year and very carefully craft a very well written and intriguing piece to submit for your thesis. The Doctoral committee (5-7 people) review the thesis, think it meets reasonable expectations, and grant your degree. Awesome.</p><p>Now let's say that same thesis is being reviewed by a committee (250,000) people all day every day. Also let's say that "reasonable expectations" means totally error free. I'd bet a shiny nickel that these people would find grammatical, spelling, contextual, and tense errors.  To develop in an "enterprise" environment with hundreds of thousands of users are connecting and working you've got to be on top of your game. Even then one DB connection left open one resource not released one variable not properly initialized one pointer written to prematurely in hundreds of thousands of lines of code will cause issues.</p><p>I believe most of the content put out to date has been solid, and errors are within acceptable levels. I believe a one year development on expansions is a reasonable timeframe. I think it would dazzle most of you to see the amount of work and coordination that goes into a project such as that.</p><p>I'd give the devs a pat on the back instead of complaining about a broken quest here or if you hit the spacebar while jumping and turning to the right while attacking something with a ranged attack and taunting while eating a hotpocket something odd happens.</p><p>Huggies! </p>

[azekah]

make an alt