Something I would seriously like to discuss.

[Esther-Chan]

I'm new, very new.  I haven't left the Greater Faydark area and while I love EQ2, I have some quirks about it that seem to make no sense and defy logic. I'm not talking about the community.  Such things are not the fault of EQ2.  What really irks me is the insane Mudflation in the game, but not in the way you think. I made it to level 15 and went to kill some Crushbone Conscripts.  Despite them being well below my level, It was a battle to the death every time.  I would constantly have to run away.  A level 70 friend I met recommended I get some new gear.  Away I went to buy new gear.  I was gripping my 107s like it was my life support.  Unfortunately, when I made it to the broker, I wasn't greeted with open arms.  I was greeted with a huge club.  I'm surprised I wasn't charged 50G just to use the Broker. Alas, I didn't walk out with a single piece of gear.  The cheapest item I could find was 4G.  And let's not get started on the Pristine crap.  35-50G!!! Even stuff that's not imbued costs a fortune, but this isn't what I'm complaining about.  No, this is common in any and every MMORPG you will play. My problem? Where's the common sense at. For instance, I wanted 2 Pristine Blackened Iron Knuckles.  The Cost? 50-70G each.  But, here's something that didn't make sense. I could buy Blackened Iron Clusters ( the main ingredient ) for 10-20G each.  Almost 7x Cheaper.  I had all the other materials used to make the weapon, including a plethora of Glowing Flowers to have it imbued.  So, using the economy to my favor, I sold a ton of Adept I books and crappy armor and made *50G* in less than a hour.  I didn't even have to try hard. So I bought the Blackened Iron Clusters, used /who to find me a Weaponsmith and found a kind Rat-man to make them for me.  For 4s.  The total cost? 39G 98S 98C. I went after armor the same way.  It's amazing how stupid people seem to be.  Where's the common sense in that? Unless you're a total [Removed for Content], you won't buy those over priced items, when you can buy the materials for far cheaper. Here's another scenario.  Feign Death Adept III.  Cost? 90G-2P.  The Cost of Alkaline Loam, the main ingredient in it? 2G 40s. The cost to have one made for me? 2G 40s.... People must be out of their mind stupid to pay for these prices.  So this is my question to you.  Why? Why are people this stupid that they'd pay for these overpriced items put there by Platinum farmers when they can buy the materials and have them made for literally 10x cheaper! My first guess would be that all these level 70's starting new characters are so rich that they have more platinum than IQ levels.  What's your take on it? Could be just plain laziness, but I digress.  Share your views. EDIT: it was brought to my attention when I brought this up in game that people use low level stuff for transmutations.  That seems to make some sense, but doesn't explain the mastercrafted stuff.

[Etchii]

<p>laziness.</p><p> Who want's to spend the time to buy components, find a crafter, mail the items, wait, wait, wait, and then finally get the item.</p><p> at 70 you can farm solo content for quick cash.  In LP the other day, i made over a plat in about 35 min just doing green quests/selling the treasured loot to vendors & body drop cash.</p><p>Laziness my friend, Laziness.</p>

[Ciara52]

<p>I have a couple higher lvl toons and one seller.  I make quite a bit in sales.  </p><p>Plus alot of armor I have gotten from chests that I can share with my toons.</p><p>However I am not fond of tradeskilling.  I would rather put stuff in the guild bank and </p><p>let someone else make it.</p><p>Lazy  -  I suppose  but since I work fulltime my game time is limited.  If I can afford it</p><p>and I want something bad enough I will buy it.  </p><p>So I guess you can label me any way you choose.  But it's my play style and I am not</p><p>constrained by anyone else's opinion. </p>

[Geothe]

This is the after-effect of the introduction of Transmuting into the game.

[Esther-Chan]

<cite>Etchii wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>laziness.</p><p> Who want's to spend the time to buy components, find a crafter, mail the items, wait, wait, wait, and then finally get the item.</p><p> at 70 you can farm solo content for quick cash.  In LP the other day, i made over a plat in about 35 min just doing green quests/selling the treasured loot to vendors & body drop cash.</p><p>Laziness my friend, Laziness.</p></blockquote> I kinda thought that was the biggest problem.  The same reason you're clutching all your money and walking everywhere at lower levels, and complaining walking takes too long so you buy portals at higher levels. It makes it hard on me.  Really really hard.  I can't stand the thought of going into my 20's simply because I will have to find better gear and with the insane costs comes a serious stab to my sanity.

[xOnaton1]

It's really not a problem if you know how to use the market. Certain things cost a lot of money but those same things sell for a lot of money. That's how the economy works-- supply and demand. Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLere Vaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p>Transmuting /ftl</p><p>I'm sorry you missed the hay day, where level 10s could make 5 plat a week (I don't really believe they did this but they said they did), and you came into the aftermath where your quests give you copper pieces that won't buy anything.</p><p> I have no good advice.</p>

[Etchii]

<p>Expensive to buy, lucrative to sell.</p><p>Buy a vendor crate, you'll have no problem finding gear.</p><p>FYI you think 20's are expensive...check out lvl 60-70 stuff.  </p><p>Buy vendor crates =)</p>

[Laoch69]

<p>Firstly, I can feel your frustration as a new player.  The game has been out for several years now, and most "new' players are in fact alternates created by someone who has a level 70 already, and can afford to buy good gear.  </p><p>There is no way around that, if you came to the party late.</p><p>Secondly, your one comment kinda stuck me in the ribs a little...</p><p>"People must be out of their mind stupid to pay for these prices.  So this is my question to you.  Why? Why are people this stupid that they'd pay for these overpriced items put there by <b>Platinum farmers</b> when they can buy the materials and have them made for literally 10x cheaper!"</p><p>Why do you assume that the people selling the items for a high price are platinum farmers? </p><p>And in a real sense, we are all platinum farmers.  My level 70 carpenter makes items, sells them for a profit, in essence I am "farming" platinum so I can buy more items.</p><p>The reason prices are so much higher for the created item, than the rare, is one simple fact...lack of tradeskillers for that level.   There is one simple solution for that though, create your own tradeskiller, and make your own items.  Once you see the time and effort that goes into it, you may change your tune a little on the high prices<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>If you can acquire the rare for 1/10th of the price of the item that you wish to buy, then buy the rare, and find a tradeskiller to make the item for you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Jesdyr]

this stuff is totally server based. The rare prices you listed are really really low if compared to Unrest.  Oddly enough the finished item price is about the same. Anyway... there is a cycle in prices for rares on the broker. What happens is sometime late friday night things start to purchased in high qty. This is the "weekend players" starting to play. They dont play often so in order to get the most out of their play time they will buy up a lot of items in a short amount of time. The prices climb most of the weekend then on monday the farmers are back in full force listing high QTYs which people then undercut causing a large dip in prices again for another week.

[liveja]

<cite>Esther-Chan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was gripping my 107s like it was my life support. </blockquote><p>I'm going to assume you've been spending money on other things, because at 15th level, you should have more than just 1 gold, 7 silver. There are ways to make money in this game at low levels: harvesting & selling the rares you don't need, harvesting & selling collectibles, or just selling the stuff you should be picking up as loot from things you've killed. You should definitely take a look at your money-making strategies, & see where you can improve. </p>

[Esther-Chan]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Esther-Chan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was gripping my 107s like it was my life support. </blockquote><p>I'm going to assume you've been spending money on other things, because at 15th level, you should have more than just 1 gold, 7 silver. There are ways to make money in this game at low levels: harvesting & selling the rares you don't need, harvesting & selling collectibles, or just selling the stuff you should be picking up as loot from things you've killed. You should definitely take a look at your money-making strategies, & see where you can improve. </p></blockquote>   I guess you didn't read beyond the first couple of sentences.  So let me reiterate. I did change my strategy.  Later in the conversation I mentioned making "50G" via selling Adept I skills and low level armor.  I've been making a steady stream of income now and this isn't my complaint. I'd like to inform people that I am not complaining about being poor.  I'm far from it.  In a sense I'm not really complaining "so much" as I am dumbfounded by the lack of consistency I see.

[noetici]

<p>Well... similar things happen in real life every day. Clothes come to mind, how much do you think it actually costs to make a shirt? I think the prices end up high the same way they do in RL, well, similarly anyway. There are a couple things to keep in mind when you're looking at player-made items on the broker.</p><p> 1) Broker fee. If you're looking at something made from a character selling from Freeport, and you're in Kelethin or Qeynos, it will be 40% more expensive due to the broker fee. When you're looking at something being sold from Kelethin or Qeynos, there's a 20% broker fee added to it. You can avoid that fee by checking by their name if their house location is listed, if it is you can go to their house and buy it directly, if there is no listing, then send them a mail or a tell if they're on. Most people are happy to sell things in person or via mail.</p><p>2) This doesn't apply a lot to the lower level items, quite frankly I doubt anyone here will make any excuses for that. People price gouge because of the number of alts around, sadly, and they CAN because people are stupid and pay the prices. As far as higher items go, tho, people mark them up due to the annoyance/cost over time of making them. For example, high level transmuted items go for more money than you would think, because it costs a LOT to get to the higher levels in transmuting. A lot of time, and a lot of money... so items end up overpriced, but really you're paying for their abilities, if that makes any sense.</p><p>3) I think the game developers assume that you will be selling your adept 1s etc. I 'missed the boat' on that directive as well, until someone else clued me in. Quests are a good source of money too, but I'm sure you discovered that already.</p><p>Anyway, sorry for having to deal with people price gouging. You are right to find a crafter to make things for you. Once you are in your 20s it will be more plausible for you to venture through Butcherblock to the 'old world' zones where harvesting is more friendly, and then you can harvest the rares to make your armor and weapons instead of buying them. It takes time of course, but will save you a lot of money. Harvesting in EoF is AWFUL. Also, don't forget to sell some of the collection items you find (the ?s on the ground that show up sometimes). Some of the rare ones will sell for 50g-1p. </p><p>Welcome to EQ <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Raveller]

<div align="justify">There are so many armor, jewelry and weapon quest rewards for T1, T2, and T3 that your complaints are simply nothing but whining. I have absolutely no sympathy for someone who mindlessly ginds mobs without doing quests. The overpriced items on the broker are there to be sold to alts, they are not there to be sold to the truly new player. Also, the drop rate for rares in those level is sufficiently high that it doesn't take any effort to get the rare raw material for free.<div align="justify">Then it's simply a matter of working with your local crafting community to find someone who will make your needed item for a very reasonable fee. Quite often there are crafters who will make your T1 item for fuel cost since the advanced recipes for T1 are now sold on the crafting trainer. There are also many crafters who will work for donations or tips. Tip generously! You'll still be paying far less for the item than the price on the broker plus you have an opportunity to establish a good relationship with someone who you will be able to go back to for replacement gear as you level up.<div align="justify"><div align="justify">You started in GFay. Good for you. Before you reached level 10 you should already have had a pretty good set of gear just from running the newbie quests. Again, gear is given as rewards for quests, not for mindless mob grinding. Once you get to level 10, take your butt over to Qeynos and pick up the mentor quest for your race. It will be a gray quest but do it anyway as it may give you a nice piece of jewelry, or it may give you a worthless piece of junk depending on your race, but it definatley will lead you to a quest line that will reward you with nearly a full suit of armor.<div align="justify"><div align="justify">For the pieces that that quest line does not give you, pick up any quests you can get in the villages. Depending on your level, the quest giver may or may not have a feather over his head, so hail all the NPCs in every village and see what you get. Don't forget to hit up all three of the city adventure zones (The Peatbog, Oakmyst Forrest, and The Forrest Ruins). The racial quest line will lead you to one of those but be sure to do all three and absolutely do The Caves. The armor you get from The Caves line rivals Mastercrafted in that tier as you can choose armor that is targeted toward your class. You just have to take the time to do the quests. If you wear chain armor, the HQ In Honor and Service in GFay is an absolute must.</div>Again, these items are rewarded for doing quests and cannot be obtained from the shop at home network.Once you hit level twenty, there will be a quest giver somewhere in Qeynos who will start you on a series of six quests, each of which will reward you with a piece of armor that, like The Caves armor, is specific to your class. The only slot you can not fill with this quest line is your head, so you will want to get a mastercrafted helm if possible. Although these armor quests can be done solo now, you will probably be ready for T4 armor if you try to do all of the AQs solo. Get grouped up with other players also working on the AQs to get your armor as soon as possible.</div></div>As long as you are picking up any and all quests you find along the way you will also be able to pick up multiple treasured weapons along the way. I personally prefer to harvest the rares and take some business to a weaponsmith to get mastercrafted weapons because I really like the imbued proc.</div>There you have it. Even a true newb with no high level alts to rely on can quest for good gear and not be forced to buy expensive armor until level 32. (Apologies to the armorers who don't have any market for their goods for the first 32 levels.)</div><b>------------Why is this forum eating up my paragraph breaks?-----------</b></div>

[Dasein]

The stuff you see on the broker is the stuff that doesn't sell. It costs nothing to list something, and unless your a hardcore merchant type, broker space is more than enough. Thus, there's no harm in leaving tihngs on the broker even if they're overpriced and will likely never sell.

[Lonaleasia]

Its not just transmutting but also that fact people know high levels TWINK out their alts so the prices for items will always be high.

[liveja]

<cite>Esther-Chan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been making a steady stream of income now and this isn't my complaint. </blockquote><p>Good, I'm glad to hear that.</p><p>Beyond that, I'm not sure what the issue is. Consistency? I assume you mean "consistency in pricing"? If that's an issue for serious discussion, what might be the solution? </p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Lonaleasia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its not just transmutting but also that fact people know high levels TWINK out their alts so the prices for items will always be high.</blockquote><p> tbh.. i can't fathom why on a pve server you would twink out a lvl 10 toon.</p><p>it just boggles my mind.  I'd grind to 20 fast, do the AQs, an HQ or two, and then start questing up and getting quested/looted gear.  in pve alls you need is a good group, not great gear.... until you start to take on the epics <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Then the tank needs a great mit, and the healers need power.. </p><p>on pvp though.. twinking out toons happens from lvl 10-70, and folks will scramble and scratch for the best of the best that they can find.. because you're not facing some silly mob that gives up after chasing you 30 meters. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>to the OP -- you should be made aware that the guy who made your black iron weapons can also make your black iron armor or leather armor since i assume you're a monk.  from 1-9 all tradeskilers are considered "artisans", no specialty and you should just get to 10 as soon as possible <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  from 10-19 you can be an outfitter, scholar, or craftsman.  The outfitter that made your weapons should also be able to make your armor be it tailored leather, or forged iron.  Once you hit 20, as an outfitter, you have to choose Tailor, Weaponsmith, Armorer.  Then it gets specialized...  Just FYI</p>

[Bozidar]

also, i don't think Eq2 has a Mudflation issue.  They suck away money just FINE, trust me! 

[PsiberDaemon]

I think most people have already hit some of the key points...  first off, most of us playing alts get regular 'care packages' of coin and such from our higher toons.  I use my 70 Wiz as a Sage to get spell upgrades for my other toons.  since they are still in the T1-T3 zones, I can wander about there without any hassle and get the rares I need for them.  But sometimes, I just don't have the time to wander about, so I hit the broker and buy the rares I need (my Proivisioner is also famous for this) ...  so the broker is there as a service, and yes, as someone else mentioned, a lot of it is motivated by laziness. As for the pricing...  I have to agree, sometimes I just shake my head...  you could just as easily gather the materials yourself and hire someone to craft it for you and probably walk away with some great savings... but if you don't want to wait, then you get it pre-fabricated from the broker. And as was also mentioned, sometimes a lot more work goes into the items than you think.  As a Tradeskiller, you can see that as the cost of your fuels rises with each Tier. Then you have to add in the people who just bought 500plats from some website and drop those headfirst into the market...  LOL

[Bozidar]

<p>keep in mind that in some of the situations you're going to find the recipie book for that rare craft may be rare itself.</p><p>Try getting palladium jewelery made, or lvl 28/29 scout spells.  Jeweler 28/29 are not common books that are found.. for example.  So while palladium may be 40 gold, you're not going to see a palladium bangle on sale for less than a plat.. </p>

[Illmarr]

<p>My Kingdom for Advanced Sage 29! All advanced books 28-29 are rare due to less 28-29 mobs than other levels.</p><p>I've said many times (of course being new the OP has never seen it, but I just like to pat myself on the back and delude myself into thinking I am clever) That the broker is for Twinks, which is nice for crafters. But I do any commission work from crafting channels for donations. It more than evens out between those that cheap you and those that are extravagant, and I get a lot of repeat business. I was surprised at the original example though. In almost every case I've seen or read about on these forums, the complaint is that the raw sells for more than the finished product where ore is concerned. May be a server by server thing. On Lucan, you're lucky to make 20% profit making something out of ore and listing it on the broker compared to just selling the raw rare. Many are the tales of crafters that have just started selling the rare harvests instead of creating items from them</p><p>Even with a hoard of rare harvests stashed and an army of crafters at my disposal I don't twink under 20 aside from Adept 3 heals/pets. Everything else is app4 and plenty good combined with questline rewards. Then a few armor quests and imbued legs and chest for Fighters. But God bless em, some people have to twink every level <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[bks6721]

CoLD MeTaL wrote: <blockquote><p>Transmuting /ftl</p><p>I'm sorry you missed the hay day, where level 10s could make 5 plat a week (I don't really believe they did this but they said they did), and you came into the aftermath where your quests give you copper pieces that won't buy anything.</p><p> I have no good advice.</p></blockquote>still do.  My level 12 templar has 7p now.. couple more days and he'll have a 9p horse.

[Adrynyn]

Yes, there is inflation, but don't overlook the fact that if you see an item in broker for 1 plat that isn't worth it, people HAVEN'T paid that price for it...or it wouldn't be in there for you to see. Usually there will have been more reasonably priced items in there that got purchased already, leaving only the otherpriced stuff in there, and if you look later, you'll likely notice the stuff set at ultra-inflated prices is still in there with cheaper stuff under it. I was looking to buy some mastercrafted dual wield weapons for my Level 22 brig the other day, and there were only three things in there all priced at well over 1 plat. Yeah, right. Good weapons make grinding/soloing easier, but there's no way I'd shell out that much for weapons when I'll be outgrowing them relatively quickly. One thing people on the non-crafting side of things will rarely complain about is underpricing of items. I've crafted L20 imbued items with decent stats on them before and prepared to put them up for sale only to find a slew of the item listed at like 17s, often less than the cost of even one of the raw materials. Where's the incentive for crafters to take the time to make good non-mastercrafted stuff when they'll be taking a huge hit in the pocket when they do it? I'm not saying everything needs to go for ten or five or even two gold, but at that level, a little more payoff for crafted items shouldn't be too much to ask. As it is, I only craft mastercrafted gear to broker, and there are probably some things I could be making to sell that are needed that I don't because I assume all non-master items are going to be priced below what the merchant would give you for them in broker. As for the Adept III skills, beware seeking them out for popular classes, or all you will find will be the otherpriced leftovers like the ones you found. I've found Masters for cheaper than some of that Adept III stuff before though, and that really boggles my mind...you'll find good deals in there from time to time. At least you KNOW about broker. When I first started, it was months before anyone was even helpful enough to point out it existed to me - I had to make due with drops or merchant armor/weapon crap...ugh...worst guardian ever!!

[Bloodfa]

<p>The economy fluctuates, as stated earlier.  Some times are better than others for getting rares on the market.  Start tradeskilling, if you can.  It's not as much fun as adventuring, but it's its own reward.  If you make a provisioner, you'll not be rich, but you won't pay somebody else for your food.  Armor and Weaponsmiths can make coin off of mastercrafted armor & weapons, but Jewelers and Tailors are the money-men in the game.  Harvest rares, make gear, throw it on the market.  Guys without the time or inclination will buy it; harvesting costs you nothing but time.  Even most of the mundane items harvested will sell.  </p><p>Example: My main farms materials in Thundering Steppes for my alts to craft into rare items.  Most of the belladonna roots, carbonite clusters and pelts that I come across will fetch a few silver apiece on the market.  I keep the rares, sell the finished products, and unload the resources that I've got 1,000 more of than I'll ever need.  Sure, the loam and the wood sell for a few copper, but some guys need a lot of them for their skills, so those also make it onto the market.  Harvest for 2 hours, and after an hour of crafting with alts, you'll be able to turn that 3 hours into a few plat.  Which you can use to acquire the other things you need.  Patience pays off.  </p>

[Ruut Li]

<p>so it wasnt enough for esther to just pat herself on the back when she found a cheaper way to get the items, she had to come all the way to the board and call lvl 70:s stupid for not choosing the cheapest way. Esther hun your not too bright urself then are you now? you ignored the cheapest way: mine the blackened iron cluster urself, and even create the proper tradeskiller to make some of the stuff you need urself. Now be fair and call urself stupid, thank you. </p><p>However maybe you claim you dont have the time to do all that. well heres the punch line:</p><p>High level players have enough PLAY money, note the emphasis on PLAY here, that they sometimes feel its worth paying for the TIME saved when twinking an alt for example. Its not that big a deal since we are dealing with PLAY money. Its sad that you get upset by how players handle their PLAY money and how they save time. You saved time and you spent more money than you had to, so ur post is really stupid <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ealthina]

To the OP.  Will you stop telling the secrets please!?!?!?!   Heh, there are some of us here who play the eq2 commodities market more then the game it's self.  By low sell high.  Fun game in it's self. 

[Polywogus]

I agree w/ a lot of what's been said in the replies... Yeah, transmuting pushed up prices on some items. Convenience/laziness is another factor. Sometimes I don't feel like harvesting for enough rares to get my armour & weapons made (heh, most of the time actually), thus I'll do quests or grind or pray my stuff sells on the broker & then pay the higher price. As someone else mentioned, the broker itself is a game. If people are purchasing XX item @ a billion plat each, then people are gonna make/sell those items @ a billion plat each. I don't recall you mentioning what class you were, but regardless - if something is kicking your [I cannot control my vocabulary], go grind out some city writs, or just farm some lower lvl mobs until you can go back & beat em up. Find a partner maybe to help you out on that part of the quest, etc. I'm also 1 that believes the broker is highly for alts. My main has crap gear & weapons, but my alts are decked out =P Nonetheless, I am happy the broker exists for the items I purchase, be they crafted (love you crafters, I just hate crafting) or treasure found in adventuring.

[Adrynyn]

I favor adorning my main with the best gear, and the alts just get whatever I can afford afterward. Granted I have some really sucky alts, but I only pull in so much money off broker, and I try to support 4 active alts out of the five that I have. Does help to have connections, though. If you can't pay the prices, find someone willing to help you out as mentioned in the first post. A former guildie of mine has such an abundance of rare pelts that he knocked out mastercrafted gear for my Level 22 illusionist and brigand and charged nothing. If you don't have the money, ingenuity goes a long way. Hmmm...buying up goods priced cheaper than you want to sell for and listing them as your own for your own price? Who would ever do such a thing? *snicker* <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gaius2]

<p>I have several lvl 70 toons in the game, 5 lvl 70 crafters too. Yes, i twinked some of my alts, this is one possible way of the game, and i won't argue for it now. Finally i decided to start a zerker, for solo play, and decided not to twink him at all. I was impressed, how much money he can make! At this time he is lvl 47, with lvl 45 woodworking and lvl 75!!! aa. I made almost everything solo, every quest done in green. Finished 750 quests, and received aa for 580. Completed about 50 collections as well. I have full mastercrafted t5 gear with ad3 and m1 spells on this toon. Bought a glvl 60 eof horse for him and he has 28p cash at this point.</p><p>I don't understand, how can have anyone problem with money in this game. I never farmed or grinded for money, just did my duty and sold the loot. </p>

[Norrsken]

CoLD MeTaL wrote: <blockquote><p>Transmuting /ftl</p><p>I'm sorry you missed the hay day, where level 10s could make 5 plat a week (I don't really believe they did this but they said they did), and you came into the aftermath where your quests give you copper pieces that won't buy anything.</p><p> I have no good advice.</p></blockquote>Actually, 20pp a day wasnt very hard. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Graug]

<p>I'm a casual gamer returning to the game  I'm getting used to playing again by playing my lowbie alts.  I can't find an upgrade to save my life.  I played this game sincebeta,I know how it was early on.   I did not expect to not be able to use the brocker unless I get into some serious economic strategy.   I've never been into crafting, and certianly wont get into it now.  My options as I see them... leech (which I wont do), craft (which I won't do), or go back to Vanguard (wich I won't do)...  Ok now I'm a whiner...  Flame on!  BTW this is just a first impression of the new economy.</p><p> I love this game. I used to love being able to find stuff on the broker.  Now the economy just seems broke.  Geared towards the top end.  I suppose it should be they have earned it.  </p><p> I have a level 59 Inq, but it don't want to play him and get my group killed at least until I get up to speed and have a good reason for it.</p><p>Good journies!</p><p>Vesudus  [no sig sorry might get one soon]</p>

[rakki]

They will never fix this game, it's a niche game for raiders only, casuals need not apply should be printed in big bold letters on the retail box... But ya some fun can be had at 70 running the instances, too bad it takes months to get there.. Band aid fixes to current system: ( and I say band-aid because major core revamps will drive away the core player base, it was a gamble in SWG that failed and I doubt sony will do it here.. It's too bad my favorite mmo was the guinea pig for that shenanigans.) <ul><li>Increase treasured loot drops in all tiers by 50% (severely decreases broker inflation)</li><li>Remove "no trade" from all treasured/legendary items. (including carpets and horses) </li><li>Increase masters drops in all sub 55 tiers 50%</li><li>Provide more xp to open field solo hunters..</li><li>Increase solo quest xp by 50% which is only around 2% more for a quest currently.. (total 4% per quest)</li><li>More fabled items as HQ rewards.</li><li>More legendary class set items at all tiers.. (players should be looking for class sets from lvl 20-70..) </li><li>Speed up level advancement to lvl 60, keep 60-70 a tough grind.. </li></ul>Basically if your going to neglect the lower tiers allow them to get up to 60 quicker and put heavy concentration into those 65-70 zones/quests and dungeons, which is where the real game begins to be fun because the feel of grinding is nearing an end and the hunt for final lvl 70 loot begins.. The best fun in this game is running 6 man dungeons in under an hr or so... Which rarely happens in lower tiers because no one is playing low levels anymore.. The games remaining population is all 70 with the exception of a handful of truely new players and alts.. I think a nice balance between fast paced solo action and moderate XP gains can be made but I feel most players are turned off by the slower combat and downtime between pulls... Yes its fun to group with 6 people and run dungeons, but when 6 people at your current level aren't available... Players quit.. We don't want this because soon the same problems will be felt at level 70 as no one new is coming in and older players leave for greener pastures or only log in to raid.. Theres 24 classes in this game and 80% of the people who played it probably never hit 60 on any of them... Thats a glaring flaw to the current system. Of course I don't have factual numbers to back this up but my intuition tells me more people quit this game because of the massive time sink and grindy feel to it.. I have no problems with a grind but we currently have 3 grinds in this game.. Xp/level, spells, and gear ( 4, crafter, but its optional/not needed to play).... I say put more emphasis on the spells/gear grind, and decrease the tedium of leveling by 50%.. How this is achieved, I don't care.. But something needs to be done before the summer release of other mmo's come out.. I mean look at Vanguard, a crappy game destroyed whole guilds and the game was basically beta 2 lol.... What happens when more refined mmo's come out?? I don't know, anything you do will [Removed for Content] off someone... Seems you've driven away most of the market to WoW anyways, and God knows why because that game is horrendous if you ask me.. what do they have 8-10 classes? It shouldn't even be in eq2's league..

[Illmarr]

<cite>rakki wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>They will never fix this game, it's a niche game for raiders only, casuals need not apply should be printed in big bold letters on the retail box... But ya some fun can be had at 70 running the instances, too bad it takes months to get there.. </p><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sand"><i>Funny, reading most of this forum one gets the impression that if you're not 70 in a month you're doing something wrong. "niche game for Raiders only? That's the last thing I would call it, and I have tagged along on exactly one raid in the year since I returned.</i></span> </p><p> Band aid fixes to current system: ( and I say band-aid because major core revamps will drive away the core player base, it was a gamble in SWG that failed and I doubt sony will do it here.. It's too bad my favorite mmo was the guinea pig for that shenanigans.) </p><ul><li>Increase treasured loot drops in all tiers by 50% (severely decreases broker inflation)</li><li>Remove "no trade" from all treasured/legendary items. (including carpets and horses) </li><li>Increase masters drops in all sub 55 tiers 50%</li><li>Provide more xp to open field solo hunters..</li><li>Increase solo quest xp by 50% which is only around 2% more for a quest currently.. (total 4% per quest)</li><li>More fabled items as HQ rewards.</li><li>More legendary class set items at all tiers.. (players should be looking for class sets from lvl 20-70..) </li><li>Speed up level advancement to lvl 60, keep 60-70 a tough grind.. </li></ul><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sand"><i>Bread and Circuses for all! </i></span></p><p>Basically if your going to neglect the lower tiers allow them to get up to 60 quicker and put heavy concentration into those 65-70 zones/quests and dungeons, which is where the real game begins to be fun because the feel of grinding is nearing an end and the hunt for final lvl 70 loot begins.. The best fun in this game is running 6 man dungeons in under an hr or so... Which rarely happens in lower tiers because no one is playing low levels anymore.. The games remaining population is all 70 with the exception of a handful of truely new players and alts.. I think a nice balance between fast paced solo action and moderate XP gains can be made but I feel most players are turned off by the slower combat and downtime between pulls... </p><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sand"><i>I leveled a Guardian, a traditionally poor solo class in any game to 70 75% solo, and that was before solo experience was bumped up last year. Downtime has never been an issue with me while soloing aside from surviving an unexpected add.</i></span></p><p>Yes its fun to group with 6 people and run dungeons, but when 6 people at your current level aren't available... Players quit.. We don't want this because soon the same problems will be felt at level 70 as no one new is coming in and older players leave for greener pastures or only log in to raid.. </p><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sand"><i>No, they solo. An argument has been made that groups are scarce because solo exp is so good grouping is not needed</i></span> Theres 24 classes in this game and 80% of the people who played it probably never hit 60 on any of them... Thats a glaring flaw to the current system. Of course I don't have factual numbers to back this up but my intuition tells me more people quit this game because of the massive time sink and grindy feel to it.. I have no problems with a grind but we currently have 3 grinds in this game.. Xp/level, spells, and gear ( 4, crafter, but its optional/not needed to play).... I say put more emphasis on the spells/gear grind, and decrease the tedium of leveling by 50%.. How this is achieved, I don't care.. But something needs to be done before the summer release of other mmo's come out.. I mean look at Vanguard, a crappy game destroyed whole guilds and the game was basically beta 2 lol.... What happens when more refined mmo's come out?? I don't know, anything you do will [Removed for Content] off someone... Seems you've driven away most of the market to WoW anyways, and God knows why because that game is horrendous if you ask me.. what do they have 8-10 classes? It shouldn't even be in eq2's league.. </p><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sand"><i>Any driving away of the market to WoW happened on release. EoF seems to have brought in a bunch of new and returning players. The lack of new T7 content in it has max-level people looking around for other challenges. So there goes your whole "niche game for raiders only" idea.</span> </i> </p></blockquote>

[Polywogus]

<cite>rakki wrote:</cite><blockquote>But ya some fun can be had at 70 running the instances, too bad it takes months to get there.. </blockquote> As a casual player, I'd be sad if I picked up this game & was @ max level w/in a month, or even 2-3.  I guess I'm just 1 that enjoys the journey, because as long as there's solo/duo/small group gaming available I'll keep playing.  I'm surprised how fast the lvls go even w/ combat xp turned off.  /shrug

[dalaorn_eq2]

<cite>Esther-Chan wrote:</cite><blockquote>My first guess would be that all these level 70's starting new characters are so rich that they have more platinum than IQ levels.  </blockquote> Yup, that's pretty much it.

[MrWolfie]

<p>The reason for high prices for mastercrafted items (although not always, you can frequently find mastercrafted items that cost less on the broker than the cost of the rare component*) is that someone has to make the item and then leave it sitting on the broker waiting for someone to come buy it.</p><p>If they didn't harvest the rare component themselves, then they paid for it, which is pp spent, a loss until the item sells. And if you harvested it, why bother making a single item that might sell, when you can sell the rare which will be bought a lot quicker?</p><p>Keeping mastercrafted items in stock is a risk. Crafters expect to be compensated for keeping that item available.</p><p>Yes, you can buy (or harvest) a rare yourself, then chase down a crafter who will make the item you want for some nominal fee. But then, you've done all the work. If someone else just wants to click "buy" then they're going to pay for the priviledge.</p><p>Secondarily, this entire conversation is about rare and top-end items (for your level). You shouldn't need Adept III and mastercrafted weapons and armor. While they are nice, handcrafted equipment is completely acceptable and usable at lower levels ~ and much, much cheaper.</p><p>*this is a phenomenon that baffles me. The rares are expensive, but there're so many crafters levelling and (obviously) doing their own harvests, that some items (particularly ranged weapon sheaths...etc) end up being cheaper to buy off the broker than the corresponding rare component.</p>

[Novusod]

Be thankfull you do not play on the VoX pvp server where twinking is king and people can leagally buy plat with their credit card. Blackened Iron for example sells for a plat at times and most finished goods sell for over 1 plat 50 gold. However, for certain items that don't sell well the rare some times costs more than the finished good.

[liveja]

<p>I've never done Transmuting, & none of my characters has even 3 plats to their name -- not even my level 70 main. My main has had as much as 14 plats at one time, almost all of which I spent for that character.</p><p>Nevertheless, I have <b>never </b>had difficulty outfitting my lowbie alts in suitable equipment. By suitable, I mean normal, crafted gear & App 2 spells at 20th level. I don't need Masters, Adept 3 or even Adept 1 spells. I don't need mastercrafted gear.</p><p>& I'm betting that none of the people here complaining need it, either. They may WANT it. They may THINK they need it, for some unfathomable reason. But they don't really NEED it -- especially if they're not even 20th level yet.</p>

[Finora]

<cite>Esther-Chan wrote:</cite><blockquote> People must be out of their mind stupid to pay for these prices.  So this is my question to you.  Why? Why are people this stupid that they'd pay for these overpriced items put there by Platinum farmers when they can buy the materials and have them made for literally 10x cheaper! My first guess would be that all these level 70's starting new characters are so rich that they have more platinum than IQ levels.  What's your take on it? Could be just plain laziness, but I digress.  Share your views. EDIT: it was brought to my attention when I brought this up in game that people use low level stuff for transmutations.  That seems to make some sense, but doesn't explain the mastercrafted stuff. </blockquote><p>Mastercrafted can be used to transmute as well. It's not necessarily (and most often isn't) 'plat' farmers that are putting these things up for sale at these prices. </p><p>Some people just don't feel like making the effort to buy the rare, find a crafter who has the recipe and meet them somewhere to complete the transaction. They want it NOOOOWWW.  Lazy and/or impatient. Hehe. I laugh at that myself. I've even had guildmates that bought master crafted armor from the Broker rather than buying the rare and waiting for me to log on later that evening and make gear for them. I once asked why, the response was that he had lots of plat and nothing to spend it on. /shrug </p><p>Glad you learned to play the market and get your upgrades for a better price. Try harvesting your own and your upgrades will cost only pittance.</p><p><b><i><span style="font-size: x-small">rakki wrote: </span></i></b></p><blockquote>They will never fix this game, it's a niche game for raiders only, casuals need not apply should be printed in big bold letters on the retail box... But ya some fun can be had at 70 running the instances, too bad it takes months to get there.. Band aid fixes to current system: ( and I say band-aid because major core revamps will drive away the core player base, it was a gamble in SWG that failed and I doubt sony will do it here.. It's too bad my favorite mmo was the guinea pig for that shenanigans.) <ul><li>Increase treasured loot drops in all tiers by 50% (severely decreases broker inflation)</li><li>Remove "no trade" from all treasured/legendary items. (including carpets and horses) </li><li>Increase masters drops in all sub 55 tiers 50%</li><li>Provide more xp to open field solo hunters..</li><li>Increase solo quest xp by 50% which is only around 2% more for a quest currently.. (total 4% per quest)</li><li>More fabled items as HQ rewards.</li><li>More legendary class set items at all tiers.. (players should be looking for class sets from lvl 20-70..) </li><li>Speed up level advancement to lvl 60, keep 60-70 a tough grind.. </li></ul>Basically if your going to neglect the lower tiers allow them to get up to 60 quicker and put heavy concentration into those 65-70 zones/quests and dungeons, which is where the real game begins to be fun because the feel of grinding is nearing an end and the hunt for final lvl 70 loot begins.. The best fun in this game is running 6 man dungeons in under an hr or so... Which rarely happens in lower tiers because no one is playing low levels anymore.. The games remaining population is all 70 with the exception of a handful of truely new players and alts.. I think a nice balance between fast paced solo action and moderate XP gains can be made but I feel most players are turned off by the slower combat and downtime between pulls... Yes its fun to group with 6 people and run dungeons, but when 6 people at your current level aren't available... Players quit.. We don't want this because soon the same problems will be felt at level 70 as no one new is coming in and older players leave for greener pastures or only log in to raid.. Theres 24 classes in this game and 80% of the people who played it probably never hit 60 on any of them... Thats a glaring flaw to the current system. Of course I don't have factual numbers to back this up but my intuition tells me more people quit this game because of the massive time sink and grindy feel to it.. I have no problems with a grind but we currently have 3 grinds in this game.. Xp/level, spells, and gear ( 4, crafter, but its optional/not needed to play).... I say put more emphasis on the spells/gear grind, and decrease the tedium of leveling by 50%.. How this is achieved, I don't care.. But something needs to be done before the summer release of other mmo's come out.. I mean look at Vanguard, a crappy game destroyed whole guilds and the game was basically beta 2 lol.... What happens when more refined mmo's come out?? I don't know, anything you do will [Removed for Content] off someone... Seems you've driven away most of the market to WoW anyways, and God knows why because that game is horrendous if you ask me.. what do they have 8-10 classes? It shouldn't even be in eq2's league.. </blockquote><p>As for the above post... are you playing the same game I'm playing? Really? Are you sure that you haven't gotten this game confused with maybe EQ1 or Vanguard or something? If you are truly playing EQ2, is this post a joke? There is so much content pre-70 I can't believe anyone that actually has played this game could say that the game begins at 70 with raiding. This game is pretty casual friendly, maybe not so much as WOW but it's certainly not a 'niche game for raiders only'. </p><p> Adepts are extremely common already. Masters aren't exactly ultra rare either (though they are SUPPOSED to be harder to get since oh they are master level and the highest you can get short of the special 10 level master 2 choices).</p><p>There is a ton of solo content out there. People can easiliy solo to 70.</p><p>You say it's fun to do 6 man dungeon runs, but you can't always find 6. So try it with 5, 3 heck even 2. It can be even more fun than the 6 man runs.</p><p>Leveling to 60 is already extremely easy and plenty fast enough. It's so fast that I have combat xp turned off on ALL of my alts and level on quest xp alone (I was doing this pre-aa so had nothing to do with that).There is little 'grinding' in this game. I leveled to 70mystic/98 aa's with barely trying. Several levels I've had combat xp off to keep from leveling faster than I wanted to. It all came about as a consequence of doing stuff while I completed quests, helped friends, did some groups, wandered around harvesting, or doing writs. The only time I've felt the grind was when I was leveling up tinkering (and provisioning in t5-t6 which I did back before no subs, I still hate trail mix and mental core breaches).</p>

[Armawk]

<p>On non pvp servers you dont NEED anything much. Good gear, masters etc makes for a shift from doing green-white quests to doing white-orange ones. Thats all. In fact being too geared up makes drops from end quest mobs and rewards seem a bit flat as they are usually worse than really good gear bought off the broker.</p>

[Noaani]

<cite>rakki wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>They will never fix this game, it's a niche game for raiders only, casuals need not apply should be printed in big bold letters on the retail box... But ya some fun can be had at 70 running the instances, too bad it takes months to get there.. </p><p><i><b>Quite the opposite is true.</b></i> Band aid fixes to current system: ( and I say band-aid because major core revamps will drive away the core player base, it was a gamble in SWG that failed and I doubt sony will do it here.. It's too bad my favorite mmo was the guinea pig for that shenanigans.) </p><ul><li>Increase treasured loot drops in all tiers by 50% (severely decreases broker inflation)</li><li><b><i>Why? this "broker inflation" is nothing diffrent from what was in the game when level 50 was the cap.</i></b></li><li>Remove "no trade" from all treasured/legendary items. (including carpets and horses)</li><li><b><i>Umm, no. No-Trade tags are on gear so that it can be safly assumed that the person wearing the item put the effort in to get it. Are you not willing to work for your own gear? </i></b></li><li>Increase masters drops in all sub 55 tiers 50%</li><li><i><b>I looked on the broker on my server (Guk), there is currently 2419 master spells on the broker for levels 55 and below (broker search for fabled spells, max level of 55, 302 pages of 8 on each page, last page had 3). Is that not enough for you? And then there is the fact that most of those masters are for sale at less than the rare used to make the same adept 3 spell. You *are* aware that masters are not a right in this game, they are supposed to be something rare, something that took a lot of work to get, and something that few people EVER have...</b></i></li><li>Provide more xp to open field solo hunters..</li><li><b><i>Solo xp was increased about a year ago.</i></b></li><li>Increase solo quest xp by 50% which is only around 2% more for a quest currently.. (total 4% per quest)</li><li><b><i>Why?</i></b></li><li>More fabled items as HQ rewards.</li><li><i><b>Whats in a tag?</b></i></li><li>More legendary class set items at all tiers.. (players should be looking for class sets from lvl 20-70..) </li><li><b><i>Why? people pass those levels faster than it would take for them to get the full sets anyway, unless they are handed to players as they level... </i></b></li><li>Speed up level advancement to lvl 60, keep 60-70 a tough grind.. </li><li><b><i>as opposed to the current easy as to level 60, then just as easy from 60 - 70? leveling in this game is a joke right now. You can be a level 70 adventurer with less than 5 days /played if you want to. Maybe all new characters should just start at 70? </i></b></li></ul><p>Basically if your going to neglect the lower tiers allow them to get up to 60 quicker and put heavy concentration into those 65-70 zones/quests and dungeons, which is where the real game begins to be fun because the feel of grinding is nearing an end and the hunt for final lvl 70 loot begins.. The best fun in this game is running 6 man dungeons in under an hr or so... Which rarely happens in lower tiers because no one is playing low levels anymore.. The games remaining population is all 70 with the exception of a handful of truely new players and alts..</p><p><i><b>Neglecting lower tiers? which ones? I can level up 3 toons to 50 before i go over any of the same content on them. Seems to me that the lower level tiers are perfectly fine as they are. Are you playing with combat XP turned off?</b></i> I think a nice balance between fast paced solo action and moderate XP gains can be made but I feel most players are turned off by the slower combat and downtime between pulls... </p><p><b><i>Roll a DPS class if you want fast solo XP.</i></b> Yes its fun to group with 6 people and run dungeons, but when 6 people at your current level aren't available... Players quit.. We don't want this because soon the same problems will be felt at level 70 as no one new is coming in and older players leave for greener pastures or only log in to raid.. </p><p><i><b>Join a guild? there a guilds on every server that will take new players of any level range. People in those guilds have alts, they will run lower level stuff with you. if your not going to go out and look for it, why are you complaining? </b></i> Theres 24 classes in this game and 80% of the people who played it probably never hit 60 on any of them... Thats a glaring flaw to the current system. Of course I don't have factual numbers to back this up but my intuition tells me more people quit this game because of the massive time sink and grindy feel to it.. I have no problems with a grind but we currently have 3 grinds in this game.. Xp/level, spells, and gear ( 4, crafter, but its optional/not needed to play).... I say put more emphasis on the spells/gear grind, and decrease the tedium of leveling by 50%.. How this is achieved, I don't care.. But something needs to be done before the summer release of other mmo's come out.. I mean look at Vanguard, a crappy game destroyed whole guilds and the game was basically beta 2 lol.... What happens when more refined mmo's come out?? I don't know, anything you do will [Removed for Content] off someone... Seems you've driven away most of the market to WoW anyways, and God knows why because that game is horrendous if you ask me.. what do they have 8-10 classes? It shouldn't even be in eq2's league.. <b><i>I do not know a single player in this game without at least 2 level 70 toons. Most i know have considerably more, especially if you include crafters as well. This is not a flaw in the game (the game has many flaws, just this is not one of them).</i></b></p><p><b><i>Getting spells is not a grind. You can get by in this gae just fine until level 50 with app 2 spells, which are avalible from merchants for silver. You may not be the most uber! of players for your level, but so what? Gear is not a grind either, common crafted is easy to come by, just keep your harvesting skills consistant with your current level, get the raws needed, and give them with a few silver to an armorer or tailor. Thats your armor for the next 10 levels done in an hour or so, OMG! what a grind!</i></b></p><p><b><i>I am fairly sure you have no idea what you are talking about. I think you do not want to put any effort in to this gae, but want to be max level. I think The Bazzar may be a good server for you if this is the case.</i></b></p><p><b><i>Leveling in this game is too easy. Gearing up as you level is easy. The amount of content in lower level tiers when compaired to the amount of content needed to pass those levels is mind numbing. Either you are getting games mixed up, have your combat XP disabled, or are very deluded. </i></b> </p></blockquote>

[doctorbow]

<cite>Esther-Chan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Esther-Chan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was gripping my 107s like it was my life support. </blockquote><p>I'm going to assume you've been spending money on other things, because at 15th level, you should have more than just 1 gold, 7 silver. There are ways to make money in this game at low levels: harvesting & selling the rares you don't need, harvesting & selling collectibles, or just selling the stuff you should be picking up as loot from things you've killed. You should definitely take a look at your money-making strategies, & see where you can improve. </p></blockquote>   I guess you didn't read beyond the first couple of sentences.  So let me reiterate. I did change my strategy.  Later in the conversation I mentioned making "50G" via selling Adept I skills and low level armor.  I've been making a steady stream of income now and this isn't my complaint. I'd like to inform people that I am not complaining about being poor.  I'm far from it.  In a sense I'm not really complaining "so much" as I am dumbfounded by the lack of consistency I see. </blockquote>LJ brings up a good point, don't dismiss it so quickly.  It's apparent in your situation (as you walked into it with 107s) that you learned a little something about a rather strange side of our economy.  Transmuting has caused wierd situation w/ the pricing, totally true.  However, the myriad gear and adept's you've collected in your travels from 1-xx lvl don't sell to the vendor for NEARLY what you could get for them from the broker.  This is going to be true for ALOT of things, so pay heed.  Even now, that transmuting has died down quite abit, those adept's and treasured attuneable gear T1-2 can still sell for alot.  My guess is, that 107s you cling to was probably earned from selling these things to the vendors around town, which if sold on broker you would be clinging to quite abit more, I would even guess 1-2p range, easily.  And, here's where your new-found knowledge comes into play:  Instead of buying 2 of those mastercraft items for 80g each, you learn that these things can be made for you on-the-cheap from other players, as long as you provide the rare. You either have to patient, or rich.  But, you learned something, and as you said yourself, you DID turn that to your advantage and made 50g fairly quickly. As you play this game, you'll come across MANY things like this, that you wish you would have known sooner.  Don't feel bad, or assume that something is 'broke' with the economy.  It's really not.  It works like any other economy, and the people that watch it breathe and live are the same ones that can profit from it, or prevent being drained by it. Congratulations, actually.  You learned a profitable lesson very early on.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Now go exploit it and make the rich alts of lvl 70's pay <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> buahaha

[doctorbow]

<cite>Graug wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm a casual gamer returning to the game  I'm getting used to playing again by playing my lowbie alts.  I can't find an upgrade to save my life.  I played this game sincebeta,I know how it was early on.   I did not expect to not be able to use the brocker unless I get into some serious economic strategy.   I've never been into crafting, and certianly wont get into it now.  My options as I see them... leech (which I wont do), craft (which I won't do), or go back to Vanguard (wich I won't do)...  Ok now I'm a whiner...  Flame on!  BTW this is just a first impression of the new economy.</p><p> I love this game. I used to love being able to find stuff on the broker.  Now the economy just seems broke.  Geared towards the top end.  I suppose it should be they have earned it.  </p><p> I have a level 59 Inq, but it don't want to play him and get my group killed at least until I get up to speed and have a good reason for it.</p><p>Good journies!</p><p>Vesudus  [no sig sorry might get one soon]</p></blockquote>Like anything you're going to have to work for what you want.  Saying that an economy is broke just because things are expensive to 'buy' is extremely 1-sided.  If you want this to work for yourself, realize that there are TWO sides to this economy, not just YOU buying stuff, but YOU selling stuff.  Get some salesman crates and even if you have to roll a lowbie DPS so you can solo ok, go farm blues and greens.  You can MAKE money from the broker, same as you can PUT money into it.  Don't be afraid to sell stuff.  I make 1-2p per day, casually.  It's not difficult.  And if something seems expensive to you, for what it is, then it probably IS overpriced and you should wait.  Unless ya really want it.  Don't expect to have stuff handed to ya.  But enjoy whatever you decide to do out there man <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Argul]

Do you sell your items on the broker, or to NPCs? If you mentioned this, sorry, I overlooked it.

[erin]

I am sorry that you are finding it so difficult, but it seems to me that most people don't put any effort into getting upgraded, and I'm not even talking about getting enough cash to use the broker. Step by step, here's a simple guide to getting the upgrades you need: 1) decide if app4 is acceptable or if that particular spell/CA requires an ad3.  Some spells its just not worth finding the rare. 2) find out the recipe for the item you are going to need, easily done by asking in your local crafting channel, someone will be willing to tell you the ingredients. 3) harvest the ingredients.  Here's the trick - don't harvest just the rare, harvest the whole lot, this will help you in a later step. [4] buy the fuel needed. 5) ask in your local crafting channel "I need [x] made, I have all the ingredients and the rare AND the fuel, just need someone to do the combine for me, and willing to pay [y]." y is server dependent but generally if its below level 40, 2gp should be acceptable, don't forget, you've bought the fuels, so that's the profit.  5gp at 40 and above, maybe more at 60. 6) if no result on #5 after a while, do a /who all [craftertype] [level range] (as in /who all tailor 30 39).   Send a polite tell as per above, that you have all the ingredients and would just like someone to hit combine. 7) still didn't work? Go into a crafting instance, go to the appropriate station.  Is there someone there that is the right type and level (as in, level +, could be a 70 crafter)?  Again send a polite tell explaining that you would just like them to hit combine for you, that you even bought the fuels. I have never said no to someone who asked me to do a combine if they were thoughtful enough to harvest all the ingredients (because at level 70 I don't have level 20 ingredients sitting around) AND bought the appropriate fuels and brought it to me.  Takes 20 seconds to do the combine, and its not a big deal. I've made a full set of armor for someone this way. The onus is on YOU to make the effort to get the ingredients together, but if you do it, you'll find upgrades not that hard to get.  The broker isn't really useful until the 30s and 40s, but then again, frankly, you don't need anything above app4 at the lower levels anyway, and can get by with quested armor and such if you just make an effort. I generally don't bother with anything but quested gear and spells until level 25 or higher, and I have the appropriate crafters for all the gear I could want!  If you are barely able to kill mobs that are white no arrow to you, then you may simply be doing something wrong in how you are playing, and has nothing to do with your gear.

[hansomepete]

Broker systems is flawed, Not sure what happened with it. When i first started money was tough to get i remember getting that 5s for my slum house took a week to get. Heck i still remember doing the citizenship quest<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  This was when crafting was rough and i could see them charging the high $$ for the item. If the hardcore tradeskiller still exists, they buy the rare instead of harvesting it, so if the rare is 30g plus the cost of fuel and other components they have a 40g overhead or so. Then there is the time they charge to do it. So yea a pristine imbuded item can be pricey for then guys.  I do tradeskill for the hell of it, i harvest my onw stuff and then make it into something. I usually sell the stuff for a bit over what a merchant would and i'm good. I've sold many carbonite stuff for 10-15 silver because a merchant would give me 6s, so i'm still making a profit. I have also gotten death threat emails form other crafters that told me to up my price. I told them, well buy me out and sell it higher if you can make the cash, i got mine and i'm happy with it.    

[MadTexan3]

CoLD MeTaL wrote: <blockquote><p>I'm sorry you missed the hay day, where level 10s could make 5 plat a week (I don't really believe they did this but they said they did), and you came into the aftermath where your quests give you copper pieces that won't buy anything.</p></blockquote>They can still do this by selling collection items to players twinking up alts and paying silly prices for shards, bones, butterflies, etc.

[Raveller]

<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The reason for high prices for mastercrafted items (although not always, you can frequently find mastercrafted items that cost less on the broker than the cost of the rare component*) is that someone has to make the item and then leave it sitting on the broker waiting for someone to come buy it.</p>........ <p>*this is a phenomenon that baffles me. The rares are expensive, but there're so many crafters levelling and (obviously) doing their own harvests, that some items (particularly ranged weapon sheaths...etc) end up being cheaper to buy off the broker than the corresponding rare component.</p></blockquote>No need to be baffled, you've answered this yourself. An unworked, raw rare is more valuable because it holds the potential to become whatever item the purchaser wants. A finished mastercrafted item has a smaller market of potential buyers. Mastercrafted plate armor is only valuable to a mage for transmuting. A rough ruby might become a piece of jewelery to fill any of a number of inventory slots, or might become a priest spell. In general, furies do not scribe inquisitor spells. It's Econ 101.

[dartie]

<cite>Adrynyn wrote:</cite><blockquote> One thing people on the non-crafting side of things will rarely complain about is underpricing of items. I've crafted L20 imbued items with decent stats on them before and prepared to put them up for sale only to find a slew of the item listed at like 17s, often less than the cost of even one of the raw materials. Where's the incentive for crafters to take the time to make good non-mastercrafted stuff when they'll be taking a huge hit in the pocket when they do it? </blockquote><p>I think Adrynyn touches here on one of the inconsistencies that we CAN account for.  </p><p>The incentive for grinding out things at a loss is to get the bonus XP for a first-time pristine combine.  </p><p>I realize that to people on the sidelines, it must seem crazy for my woodworker to spend 17 gold on a piece of oak that she makes into a wand that she then prices at 12 gold, but if you only have a limited number of recipes (and woodworkers get very few compared to the scholar classes), then you make one of everything just to level up.</p><p>I take losses on items all the time.  It's a cost of leveling up.  An outsider might say, "That's nuts to buy materials for more than you'll be able to sell the finished product for," but that's because the outsider hasn't had to make 7-9 batches of arrows for the amount of xp I get from making that 1 wand.  </p><p>Like the OP, I originally refused to pay the outrageous prices for things on the broker.  I wanted an ebony salesman's crate, but I noticed they well all going for over a plat even though I could buy a piece of ebony for 60 gold or so.</p><p>I went through the /who search, tracked down a carpenter, presented him with my ebony, and gave him a 20gp tip to make the crate.  </p><p>The whole time he was working, I kept thinking to myself, "What a bunch of suckers those folks who buy their stuff on the broker are."  </p><p>Now try this scenario:</p><p>I want a set of clothing for my wiz, so I buy 8 figwart roots and do a /who search on tailors and find one who will make me the set and charge me just 2 gold per item.  I walk across qeynos to where he is, hand him the rares, and wait for him to make the stuff.  I'm going to save more than a plat vs. what the broker would have charged for the items, so I'm obviously making the right call.  </p><p>But wait.  What's that?  The crafter who has all my figwarts has gone linkdead.  I just spent all my money on those roots.  Is he trying to steal them from me?  Has his account been terminated?  Will he be back later tonight?  Tomorrow?  Will he mail them to me?  Does he even remember my name?</p><p>When you buy stuff on the broker, you tend to pay more than you would have to if you hired someone on commission, but you get peace of mind, instant gratification, and exactly what you want.  Does it make me lazy that I've come around to paying those stupid prices?  That's going to be a difficult argument to make sense my own crafters work their butts off so that I can have enough money to afford the stuff on the broker.  </p><p>I buy alkaline loam on my server when it's under 20 gold (never seen it anywhere close to the 2 gp number you quote from your server, but I know prices vary wildly).  I use it to make adept IIIs that I put on the broker for 35 gold each.  Since I tend to pay somewhere between 15 and 20 gp for each loam, that is a 15 to 20 gp profit.  </p><p>I don't sell a ton of those AdIIIs, but mine are consistently the cheapest on the broker, and I have to do a good job of keeping them in stock if I don't want that revenue stream to dry up.  If my prices were outrageous, then I guess someone would have come along to undercut me by now.  The reason no one has is that there are easier and more fun ways to make money in the game.  </p><p>If you want a T2 adIII and don't want to find someone to make it for you, you can buy one of mine whether I'm online or not.  I'm not forcing anyone to buy them, and I'm not making a killing.  I'm just performing an in-game service that lets me take advantage of the in-game services offered by other players.  There are other tradeskillers who make foodstufffs/drinks that costs them a few coppers to make and that they sell for a gold or more each.  Well, fine.  I pay them because I don't have a provisioner.  They pay me because they don't have a jeweler.  </p><p>In any case, money is so easy to come by that the prices seem less outrageous to me the longer I play.  Would I rather walk to Castleview Hamlet and watch a carpenter make a salesman's crate for me for a 20 gp tip and a 60 gp piece of ebony, or do I prefer to pay 1.25 plat for the finished product and start using it right away?  I can see why the first option sounds better at first, but once you start generating a steady income with your shop, you may decide that saving 45 gp isn't worth the bother.  </p><p>In my opinion, THAT's how easy money is to come by in this game, and I think the OP is well on his way to reaching the same conclusion (given his own success with AdeptIs).  </p><p>P.S.  By the way OP, I've written all this junk here in an effort to help you and other newcomers make sense of how pricing works in EQ2.  I hope it's useful to you, as I asked for explanations about the economy when I started playing and was generally ignored.  If it's not helpful, I'm sorry, but I did at least read your initial post.  What astonished me about a large number of the replies you've received here is that a lot of people seemed to just form an impression that you were complaining about the economy and not reacting to it sensibly.  Clearly, you're not complaining, and you're reacting just fine, and you seek to understand it a bit better.  As one of the posters above said, you seem to be adapting very well.  I think you'll find that discovering economic trends on the broker is one of the more enjoyable aspects of playing for an extended period, and I'm sure you'll reach different conclusions than my own.  That's part of the fun.  </p>

[Noaani]

<cite>hansomepete wrote:</cite><blockquote>Broker systems is flawed, Not sure what happened with it. When i first started money was tough to get i remember getting that 5s for my slum house took a week to get. Heck i still remember doing the citizenship quest<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  This was when crafting was rough and i could see them charging the high $$ for the item. If the hardcore tradeskiller still exists, they buy the rare instead of harvesting it, so if the rare is 30g plus the cost of fuel and other components they have a 40g overhead or so. Then there is the time they charge to do it. So yea a pristine imbuded item can be pricey for then guys.  I do tradeskill for the hell of it, i harvest my onw stuff and then make it into something. I usually sell the stuff for a bit over what a merchant would and i'm good. I've sold many carbonite stuff for 10-15 silver because a merchant would give me 6s, so i'm still making a profit. I have also gotten death threat emails form other crafters that told me to up my price. I told them, well buy me out and sell it higher if you can make the cash, i got mine and i'm happy with it.    </blockquote><p>When I made my current main in january '05, i had a gold before i left the isle of refuge...</p><p>Yes, crafting was more time consuming back then, but there was also the possability of making a profit in crafting without needing to sell stuff. The crafting sociatly tasks were actually one of the best money makers in teh game at the time. </p>

[SignumX]

Don't worry it gets better unfortunately its because the farmers have arrived on your server and are lowballing everyone else on the market to the point the rares cost more then the finished product, which is what farmers want of course.

[Raveller]

Erin@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>I am sorry that you are finding it so difficult, but it seems to me that most people don't put any effort into getting upgraded, and I'm not even talking about getting enough cash to use the broker. Step by step, here's a simple guide to getting the upgrades you need: 1) decide if app4 is acceptable or if that particular spell/CA requires an ad3.  Some spells its just not worth finding the rare. 2) find out the recipe for the item you are going to need, easily done by asking in your local crafting channel, someone will be willing to tell you the ingredients. 3) harvest the ingredients.  Here's the trick - don't harvest just the rare, harvest the whole lot, this will help you in a later step. [4] buy the fuel needed. 5) ask in your local crafting channel "I need [x] made, I have all the ingredients and the rare AND the fuel, just need someone to do the combine for me, and willing to pay [y]." y is server dependent but generally if its below level 40, 2gp should be acceptable, don't forget, you've bought the fuels, so that's the profit.  5gp at 40 and above, maybe more at 60. 6) if no result on #5 after a while, do a /who all [craftertype] [level range] (as in /who all tailor 30 39).   Send a polite tell as per above, that you have all the ingredients and would just like someone to hit combine. 7) still didn't work? Go into a crafting instance, go to the appropriate station.  Is there someone there that is the right type and level (as in, level +, could be a 70 crafter)?  Again send a polite tell explaining that you would just like them to hit combine for you, that you even bought the fuels. I have never said no to someone who asked me to do a combine if they were thoughtful enough to harvest all the ingredients (because at level 70 I don't have level 20 ingredients sitting around) AND bought the appropriate fuels and brought it to me.  Takes 20 seconds to do the combine, and its not a big deal. I've made a full set of armor for someone this way. The onus is on YOU to make the effort to get the ingredients together, but if you do it, you'll find upgrades not that hard to get.  The broker isn't really useful until the 30s and 40s, but then again, frankly, you don't need anything above app4 at the lower levels anyway, and can get by with quested armor and such if you just make an effort. I generally don't bother with anything but quested gear and spells until level 25 or higher, and I have the appropriate crafters for all the gear I could want!  If you are barely able to kill mobs that are white no arrow to you, then you may simply be doing something wrong in how you are playing, and has nothing to do with your gear. </blockquote>I had no idea crafters on Blackburrow worked so incredibly cheap. You'll pay heavily to get someone outside of your guild to craft anything for you on AB. 2gp for an AD3? Amazing!

[Raveller]

<cite>SignumX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't worry it gets better unfortunately its because the farmers have arrived on your server and are lowballing everyone else on the market to the point the rares cost more then the finished product, which is what farmers want of course.</blockquote>It's a market economy at work. Has nothing to do with farmers and everything to do with the simple fact that there are only 7  different rares per tier (root, leather, wood, ore, metal, stone, loam), yet hundreds of different recipes that use those rares. Why is simple math so difficult for so many players of this game?

[Araxes]

The desire for instant gratification is your answer, my friend.  Not much else to it.  People with the money will pay those high prices to get the goods as absolutely fast as possible.  Simple as that.  Sure, you can drive to the post office and mail a package for a lot less than you can ship it FedEx Express ... but if you have the money, why NOT ship it FedEx Express?  Same principle in this game.  Faster, faster, faster -- "I want it NOW and I will pay to get it." And frankly, that's not a problem.  That's what a free market is all about.  Sellers are equally able to charge low prices and still make healthy profits - but why would they when rich alts are out there to pay exhorbitant amounts?  And when that dwindles?  Then you see prices go down.  Just like in the real world.

[erin]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>Erin@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>I am sorry that you are finding it so difficult, but it seems to me that most people don't put any effort into getting upgraded, and I'm not even talking about getting enough cash to use the broker. Step by step, here's a simple guide to getting the upgrades you need: 1) decide if app4 is acceptable or if that particular spell/CA requires an ad3.  Some spells its just not worth finding the rare. 2) find out the recipe for the item you are going to need, easily done by asking in your local crafting channel, someone will be willing to tell you the ingredients. 3) harvest the ingredients.  Here's the trick - don't harvest just the rare, harvest the whole lot, this will help you in a later step. [4] buy the fuel needed. 5) ask in your local crafting channel "I need [x] made, I have all the ingredients and the rare AND the fuel, just need someone to do the combine for me, and willing to pay [y]." y is server dependent but generally if its below level 40, 2gp should be acceptable, don't forget, you've bought the fuels, so that's the profit.  5gp at 40 and above, maybe more at 60. 6) if no result on #5 after a while, do a /who all [craftertype] [level range] (as in /who all tailor 30 39).   Send a polite tell as per above, that you have all the ingredients and would just like someone to hit combine. 7) still didn't work? Go into a crafting instance, go to the appropriate station.  Is there someone there that is the right type and level (as in, level +, could be a 70 crafter)?  Again send a polite tell explaining that you would just like them to hit combine for you, that you even bought the fuels. I have never said no to someone who asked me to do a combine if they were thoughtful enough to harvest all the ingredients (because at level 70 I don't have level 20 ingredients sitting around) AND bought the appropriate fuels and brought it to me.  Takes 20 seconds to do the combine, and its not a big deal. I've made a full set of armor for someone this way. The onus is on YOU to make the effort to get the ingredients together, but if you do it, you'll find upgrades not that hard to get.  The broker isn't really useful until the 30s and 40s, but then again, frankly, you don't need anything above app4 at the lower levels anyway, and can get by with quested armor and such if you just make an effort. I generally don't bother with anything but quested gear and spells until level 25 or higher, and I have the appropriate crafters for all the gear I could want!  If you are barely able to kill mobs that are white no arrow to you, then you may simply be doing something wrong in how you are playing, and has nothing to do with your gear. </blockquote>I had no idea crafters on Blackburrow worked so incredibly cheap. You'll pay heavily to get someone outside of your guild to craft anything for you on AB. 2gp for an AD3? Amazing! </blockquote>Someone is standing next to me in a crafting instance, with everything, including the fuels.  They are under level 30 and they ask me very politely to hit the combine button for them, and they are even willing to throw in 2gp.  Not only will I do it, I'll likely not bother with the 2gp.  Why?  Because they made the effort.  Remember, they got ALL the ingredients, I don't supply anything but my skill.  They are dressed poorly, and are polite.  Its obvious to me that they are either a scammer, or a real noob.  Yes, I'll help them on the off chance that they are a real noob, and so will most crafters I know. Now, on the other hand, you say in channels "need ad3 made, got the rare, paying 2gp", then yes, of course I'm not gonna bother with you most of the time.  1) you made no real effort, and are paying poorly.  You expect me to make all the effort of gathering the ingredients plus skilling up.  Unless you are guildy, I probably will keep my mouth shut.  2) you aren't even being polite about it, you are demanding service (IMHO).  "Would someone be willing to make me an ad3, I have the rare, I only have 2gp, I'm still new to the game... please?" would get a very different response.  But mostly I'd give the same advice I gave above.  If you make ALL the effort and all I need to do is hit combine, and you hit me up in a crafting instance (and NOT while I'm out in the middle of nowhere, or raiding or something) then sure, I'll help.  A polite thank you very much (not tyvm) is all I ask <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Eugam]

Esther-Chan wrote <blockquote> It makes it hard on me.  Really really hard.  I can't stand the thought of going into my 20's simply because I will have to find better gear and with the insane costs comes a serious stab to my sanity. </blockquote>First congrats for being smart enough to find you own and much cheaper way through the disaster. Those who have time and patience could also start mining for their own clusters. Borker is insane nowadays. But its not that hard to have a bad feeling going into the 20's. You have a worng picture. From zone and CA updates i guess you are a Fae monk ? While every race can be what they like, the Fae have a hard time till 20. Due to race they have low HP and struggle a bit as warriors. That will be gone soon. AA and increasing stats will even it out soon. In the 20's you either can do the armor quests or struggle bit bit longer till the 30's. From there you can get a lot armour from quests and loot till late 60's. And, since revamp of deathfist citadel, there are new crafter recipes for brawler armour in their 40's.

[Kendricke]

Othesus@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>It's really not a problem if you know how to use the market. Certain things cost a lot of money but those same things sell for a lot of money. That's how the economy works-- supply and demand. Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLere Vaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere </blockquote><p> The best answer came within the first 10 responses.  </p><p>I'd been reading about how "difficult" it is to make coin at the lower levels for so long now, so around 6 months ago, I started creating random low level characters on other servers.  The funny thing is how fast I could make coin just by selling the items I had on me.  Seriously...only have ~200 silver?  Take all those Adept I books you keep finding and vendoring, and put them all up for sale for 2 gold each - just 2 gold.  You'll have 10 gold in a few days.  Start paying attention to which collectibles you find and start selling the rare ones for 10-500+ gold each (some of the collectibles from Faydark and Butcherblock still pull in big money).</p><p>If you aren't making coin, you aren't trying.  Honestly, just as Othesus stated, those same items that cost a lot also sell for a lot.  Start pricing out the items you normally sell to vendors and see if those aren't worth a bit more on the broker.</p><p>Seriously, pick a server - any server.  I'll start a character from scratch tonight and see how much I can make by the time I hit level 15.  Pick the race and class and as an added bonus, I'll see how long I can go without buying any gear or spell upgrades.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Windowlicker]

Some people have 6 or more level 70 characters.  I assure you money is no object to them when raising another. 

[Raveller]

Erin@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>Someone is standing next to me in a crafting instance, with everything, including the fuels.  They are under level 30 and they ask me very politely to hit the combine button for them, and they are even willing to throw in 2gp.  Not only will I do it, I'll likely not bother with the 2gp.  Why?  Because they made the effort.  Remember, they got ALL the ingredients, I don't supply anything but my skill.  They are dressed poorly, and are polite.  Its obvious to me that they are either a scammer, or a real noob.  Yes, I'll help them on the off chance that they are a real noob, and so will most crafters I know. Now, on the other hand, you say in channels "need ad3 made, got the rare, paying 2gp", then yes, of course I'm not gonna bother with you most of the time.  1) you made no real effort, and are paying poorly.  You expect me to make all the effort of gathering the ingredients plus skilling up.  Unless you are guildy, I probably will keep my mouth shut.  2) you aren't even being polite about it, you are demanding service (IMHO).  "Would someone be willing to make me an ad3, I have the rare, I only have 2gp, I'm still new to the game... please?" would get a very different response.  But mostly I'd give the same advice I gave above.  If you make ALL the effort and all I need to do is hit combine, and you hit me up in a crafting instance (and NOT while I'm out in the middle of nowhere, or raiding or something) then sure, I'll help.  A polite thank you very much (not tyvm) is all I ask <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>Trust me, what you are doing on Blackburrow is nigh unheard of on AB. Any one could have all of the materials, and the fuel, and ask very, very nicely in the crafting channel (Qeynos_Crafting, anyway) and still search for days to have the privilege of paying nothing less than 10-20gp or more for the combine. That's if you're lucky enough to get someone to do the combine. The general attitude amonst AB crafters is a) it's too low level for them so they won't bother because they need to grind out some more writs, or, b) they're only in it for the plat.</p><p>I should consider a free transfer to Blackburrow. Sounds better than AB. </p>

[Ranja]

Some mentioned this b4 but it needs to be said again. Transmuting is the reason why the broker is astronomical. AD3's can be transmuted as well as mastercrafted gear - the rares cannot. Therefore, those items are much more in demand. Treasured items are in such high demand for transmuting that even t1 treasured is going for 2g. B4 trasmuting you could get common treasured t7 items for 2 g. Now nothing is below 10g for t7 treasured on Everfrost. They made transmuting to suck the cash out of the economy and it is doing that. But at the same time it is killing the new players coming into the game. And for those that say it is easy to make money, it is easy if it is your 2nd, 3rd or 4th time through. I was dirt poor until I got a clue about how to make money in this game and it took me to about level 30 to figure that out ( I started at the very beginning of eq2). Now, yes it is easy for all my alts because I know where to hunt, what to sell, what to collect, and so on and so on.

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p>Not to mention that the hayday of transmuting is over, so much of that is now rotting on the shelf, because the transmuters r done and normal people can't afford the new inflated prices.</p>

[PsiberDaemon]

<cite>rakki wrote:</cite><blockquote>They will never fix this game, it's a niche game for raiders only, casuals need not apply should be printed in big bold letters on the retail box... But ya some fun can be had at 70 running the instances, too bad it takes months to get there.. </blockquote>What?  Are we talking abotu the same game?  Actually, for me, it's quite the opposite...  I find a wide range of content available.  It's now that I'm at lvl 70 I'm doing the same thing over and over again.  Hell, I've created alts just so I can go back through all the quests I missed when I was levelling my main. Maybe for YOU raiding is the thing, and if that's the case, you're right, not much raiding until you get up to higher levels. But there's plenty of content in the game!

[Ruut Li]

<p>Ranja I was a total newb once, and I mean seriously a mmo noob, eq2 is my first game of this kind. I was totally clueless and had a blast in my super crap gear, didnt understand broker nor want to understand it until level 30! Never did I cry and whine about me so want this and that, I was too busy having fun. Then I realised I wasnt much help to groups in my crap gear, so I started Thinking and it was easy to figure out what made money; this was in the old days when it was hard to make money if you were only an adventurer. So pls...if you really want coin because you "need" items at low levels then it is easy if you just think a moment instead of waste all that energy running to the boards creating a WAAA WAA thread lol. </p><p>Ppl:s crying will not change the supply/demand, and its so silly and kinda sick to try and make sellers feel bad for their pricing; its a g a m e, nobody should feel sorry for a game character's "poverty".</p>

[erin]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>Erin@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>Someone is standing next to me in a crafting instance, with everything, including the fuels.  They are under level 30 and they ask me very politely to hit the combine button for them, and they are even willing to throw in 2gp.  Not only will I do it, I'll likely not bother with the 2gp.  Why?  Because they made the effort.  Remember, they got ALL the ingredients, I don't supply anything but my skill.  They are dressed poorly, and are polite.  Its obvious to me that they are either a scammer, or a real noob.  Yes, I'll help them on the off chance that they are a real noob, and so will most crafters I know. Now, on the other hand, you say in channels "need ad3 made, got the rare, paying 2gp", then yes, of course I'm not gonna bother with you most of the time.  1) you made no real effort, and are paying poorly.  You expect me to make all the effort of gathering the ingredients plus skilling up.  Unless you are guildy, I probably will keep my mouth shut.  2) you aren't even being polite about it, you are demanding service (IMHO).  "Would someone be willing to make me an ad3, I have the rare, I only have 2gp, I'm still new to the game... please?" would get a very different response.  But mostly I'd give the same advice I gave above.  If you make ALL the effort and all I need to do is hit combine, and you hit me up in a crafting instance (and NOT while I'm out in the middle of nowhere, or raiding or something) then sure, I'll help.  A polite thank you very much (not tyvm) is all I ask <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>Trust me, what you are doing on Blackburrow is nigh unheard of on AB. Any one could have all of the materials, and the fuel, and ask very, very nicely in the crafting channel (Qeynos_Crafting, anyway) and still search for days to have the privilege of paying nothing less than 10-20gp or more for the combine. That's if you're lucky enough to get someone to do the combine. The general attitude amonst AB crafters is a) it's too low level for them so they won't bother because they need to grind out some more writs, or, b) they're only in it for the plat.</p><p>I should consider a free transfer to Blackburrow. Sounds better than AB. </p></blockquote>LOL.  Maybe I'm the only one that does that then.  The trick I find, is to see the person standing right next to me.  Its a matter of them handing me the materials, me doing a combine, and handing it back.  Total time spent:  less than 3 minutes.  To help a fellow player who made all that effort to make it easy for me? Yeah I'll do that every time. The key thing in what you said is that you ask in the channel.  Its easy to ignore people in channels.  What I would do is a /who all [craftertype] [levelrange] and see which tradeskill instance there are at least 1 or 2 of the right type and level.  Then go there, stand by them and talk to them.  If people still won't help you, well, they suck <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And oh yeah, come on over, I'll help you out.

[Slapfish]

<p>This subject sure comes up a lot. </p><p>1. Players can price an item for any amount they want, it doesn't mean they are actually selling it. I've seen grossly inflated items sit on the broker for months. Don't assume that people are actually buying the stuff. </p><p>2. When you buy a rare and ask someone to make an item for you, you are asking another player to do something for you for FREE. That will always be cheaper, but is it fair? Tradeskilling is tedious, monotonous and expensive. Players that have spent the time and made the effort to advance their skills should be able to make money at it without being made to feel like they are gouging other players. </p><p>3. At low levels you don't need to buy items from the broker. You can get everything you need from quests and drops. You will outlevel your gear so quickly it's not even worth the expense. I played a Conj to level 34 and I think I spent a grand total of about 20g on her and had no trouble at all playing her. Personally I don't like to spend any real money on my characters until around level 40. Even then I go cheap.</p>

[mekawixon]

<p>I agree with you,..i been playing EQ2 for 2+ years and have seen ALOT of changes for the worse,..the fact is that SoE are a bunch of [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] and have no clue on what they are doing! The econamy was messed up before the introduction of transmuting and Sony's "Fix" was to add transmuting which just screwed it up even more! And all these ppl that say "supply and Demand" are also a bunch of [Removed for Content] and they are just trying to justify there greed and ignorance! Jee i wonder why there is no new players coming to EQ2??? maybe because the servers are full of [Removed for Content] farmers now and [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] that charge 20+gp for a T1 item! Thnx to sony by Dumbing down the game/destroying the econamy and killing crafting for the most part the game is now on a spiral path to death!! My advice for all the noobs who are playing EQ2 or plan on playing EQ2 is STAY FAR AWAY from this game as its another SOE failure! Read the forums of all the ppl that have left EQ2 and other SoE games over the last several years!! It speaks for it self.</p><p>Im sure this post will be deleted and or flamed but i realy dont care!! the fact remains that Sony is a bunch of [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] morons that have no clue what a game/community needs and all there attemts to "fix" there [Removed for Content] ups just make it worse!! So imho sony can go [Removed for Content] themselfs and shove there EQ2 game right up there moronic [Removed for Content]!!</p>

[dartie]

<cite>mekawixon wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree with you,..i been playing EQ2 for 2+ years and have seen ALOT of changes for the worse,..the fact is that SoE are a bunch of [I cannot control my vocabulary] [Removed for Content] and have no clue on what they are doing! The econamy was messed up before the introduction of transmuting and Sony's "Fix" was to add transmuting which just screwed it up even more! And all these ppl that say "supply and Demand" are also a bunch of [Removed for Content] and they are just trying to justify there greed and ignorance! Jee i wonder why there is no new players coming to EQ2??? maybe because the servers are full of [I cannot control my vocabulary] farmers now and [I cannot control my vocabulary] [Removed for Content] that charge 20+gp for a T1 item! Thnx to sony by Dumbing down the game/destroying the econamy and killing crafting for the most part the game is now on a spiral path to death!! My advice for all the noobs who are playing EQ2 or plan on playing EQ2 is STAY FAR AWAY from this game as its another SOE failure! Read the forums of all the ppl that have left EQ2 and other SoE games over the last several years!! It speaks for it self.</p><p>Im sure this post will be deleted and or flamed but i realy dont care!! the fact remains that Sony is a bunch of [I cannot control my vocabulary] [I cannot control my vocabulary] morons that have no clue what a game/community needs and all there attemts to "fix" there [I cannot control my vocabulary] ups just make it worse!! So imho sony can go [I cannot control my vocabulary] themselfs and shove there EQ2 game right up there moronic [Removed for Content]!!</p></blockquote><p>I joined over the Thanksgiving holidays--so I've only been playing for about 6 months.  I'm one of the new players attracted to the game by EOF.</p><p>I never played EQ1.  I don't know anything about how EQ2 used to be before EOF, transmuting, and tinkering.</p><p>You say it was better before.  If so, it must have been the best game ever devised, as I believe the game as it is now is extremely balanced, challenging, and fun.</p><p>When I started, it took me several weeks to get my first gold.  I didn't understand what the brokers were or how to use them.  I always saw crowds of people standing around brokers, but when I single-clicked on a broker, I would just get that black screen with no items listed.  </p><p>Since I didn't know how the filter worked, I assumed that I wasn't high enough level to use the broker, so I quit fiddling with it.  I sold countless Adept Is and other treasured mob drops to NPC merchants for silver.  I destroyed rare loams because I didn't know what to do with them and didn't have space for them.</p><p>When I finally did get my first gold, it was because a guy was paying people to help form a guild so that he could boot them and have the extra bank slots to himself.  He paid me 5 gold.  I was ecstatic!</p><p>Since I didn't understand that you have to hail the TS trainer to get him to train you, I just kept clicking on him and getting nowhere.  It wasn't until around Christmas that I actually figured out how to tradeskill.  That was when I discovered how to use the broker.  I didn't make any money from tradeskilling, but throwing the Adept I's I found on the broker was my first step towards making ends meet.</p><p>I've checked my total sales on the broker this morning.  (This includes stuff I've made and shinies I've just stumbled across and loot dropped from monsters.)  I've had 878 platinum in total sales on my main character.</p><p>Since I didn't start using the broker until Christmas, that works out to just about 175 platinum a month.  My main is a Level 41 fury and a Level 51 sage.  I don't have a Level 70.  I've never been on a raid.  I play with groups when I can find them and by myself when I don't have time for groups.  </p><p>I just figured out how to do my first deity quest two days ago.  I just used the legal macro system to set up my harvesting macro about 2 weeks ago.  When I get home from work today, I will set up my first saved broker search, as I just read about how to do that while visiting these forums.</p><p>All of this is meant to show you that I was and am still, in every sense of the word, a NOOB.  I don't know what I'm doing.  I have seen the clicky bell to the Island of Mara, but I don't know what the Island of Mara is or what one does when one goes there.</p><p>I'm still exploring the world of EQ2, and it will be a long while yet before I can think of myself as knowing my way around.</p><p>Nevertheless, I'm making over 5 plat a day just playing the way I want to and learning my way around, and I just hit T5 this week.  Maybe you think that 5 plat per day isn't a lot of money, and maybe it isn't to you.  But it's plenty for me, as I've run out of stuff to spend it on.  I could buy collections, but I have the ones appropriate for my level, so I'm just twinking out my alts like mad with the extra cash I have on hand.  </p><p>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop saying that money is difficult to come by in this game.  If SOE introduced transmuting to redistribute the wealth in the game, then it worked!  I LOVE transmuting and transmuters.  God bless their hearts for buying all my worthless treasured loot.  If they try to sell it back to me in the form of overpriced adornments, I DON'T have to buy their adornments.</p><p>There are too many veterans on these boards who are mad that they can no longer make money the way they used to.  I'm sorry for your lost income, but you don't have to work very hard to find different--and perhaps better!--ways of making money.  No one told me how to make money in the game.  I just found out through experience what junk to put on the broker and what junk will just tie up a vendor slot without ever selling.  </p><p>For crying out loud, just kill stuff, collect the loot, undercut by a decent margin when you throw it on the broker, and check on your inventory from time to time to make sure that your stuff is the cheapest available.  It's not rocket science.</p><p>It's also not helpful to keep saying that people such as myself do not exist.  I am a relatively new player, and I encounter other new players regularly.  We're all astonished at how easy it is to make money in the game, and we can't help suspecting that folks who keep calling us morons for liking the EQ2 economy might just possibly be a little mentally deficient themselves.  </p>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p>The fact that most T1 adept 1's go for about the same on the broker as most T7 adept i's is alone proof that the economy was destroyed by transmuting.</p><p>The day before transmuting you could not have gotten 10s for those adepts.</p><p>And yes you were fortunate that while i was slugging it out in T7 and putting my very few adept 1s on the market, you were putting the ones they were raining like candy on T1 on the broker and cleaning up.</p><p>I have been playing since 12/2004, doing all the things you mention, and have less than 350p all time sales.</p><p>Transmuting did what they wanted it to do, benefit those who just started and grab ya, but I think that parade is over now, and a very different economy awaits a person who starts now without advanced knowledge of the game.</p><p>You disagree fine.</p>

[erin]

CoLD MeTaL wrote: <blockquote><p>The fact that most T1 adept 1's go for about the same on the broker as most T7 adept i's is alone proof that the economy was destroyed by transmuting.</p><p>The day before transmuting you could not have gotten 10s for those adepts.</p></blockquote>Yes, supply and demand is a wonderful thing.  You should maybe look up the concept?  Transmuting didn't destroy the economy, no matter how often you claim it did.  You are correct, the day before you couldn't have gotten 10s for those adepts.  So what did most of us do?  We sold them to the vendor, because it sure wasn't worth the space to put them on the broker!  Now all of a sudden, they were worth something.  Hey how about that? A noob can make some cash, and NOT buy adept 1s, but get a guildy to make app4s, or even (*gasp*) make them himself, and be relatively well off by level 15 or 20 or 30.  It does require a little effort, a little research... or even asking other players to help explain how things work.  Its an MMO, there's other people in the game, and many of them willingly help others.  /shrug I guess I've had very different experiences than you with the game.  But if you are this bitter, why are you still playing?

[liveja]

CoLD MeTaL wrote: <blockquote><p>You disagree fine.</p></blockquote><p>Perhaps you should respond to the person who posted just above you: the one who says he/she just started in November & had never played EQ1 before. That person doesn't sound like he/she is having trouble, even without "advanced knowledge".</p><p>& just so you know, when I sell adept spells on the broker, I look at what the vendor would pay, round up to the next gold, & price it there. So I sell T1 ad1 spells for 1g, & T7 ad1s for 10g. I make more than enough money under-cutting the more expensive people to keep my level 70 main happy & equipped.</p><p>IMHO, the claims made about how hard it is to make money in this game are terribly short-sighted, with most of them coming from people who simply don't want to do what's needed to make it fast & easily. IOW, they don't want to HARVEST, & they don't want to spend any time at all hunting for "?".</p><p>I have no sympathy for such people, because they not only have not yet learned how to play, they relentlessly refuse to. </p>