Raid DPS - Maxing DPS as an Illusionist.

[MistrNole]

Hello, I played an Illusionist on PvE (I now play on PvP) up until level 60. Back then Illys were not well known for their DPS abilities as most of you may know. Recently I switched my Coercer to an Illusionist. I've been experimenting with different spell combos to try and maximize my dps (because sometimes theres just nothing else to do heh), but so far I've topped out at around 1300, and I've seen Illys break 2k before. Keep in mind, this is without any proc gear and AGI/Int specced under ench tree as well as the extra trigger on my dots/ae's under EoF illy tree. I think I'm spec'd correctly for max DPS, and I'm fairly confident the secret is in the spell order in which I cast. Normally I start off with my reactive on MT, followed by a DD, followed by dots - then i just basically spam them as they pop. I don't normally have a pet up to make sure everyone gets synergism and whatnot (including myself). Was just wondering if someone could post some ideas that may help me =-) Thanks in advance. Edit: I'm mainly interested in single target encounter DPS...AOE dps is pretty easy imo. Also, I've already looked over a few other posts and didn't see any examples of actual spell combos, which is what I'm interested in.

[Anca0202]

<p>Do you sprint down to close to 30% power before the pull?  I do that and then the mana aa ability on myself to drop under 30%.  One thing that I have done is alternate words of force nuke with other abilities.  It is up every other spell cast so I hit it because it is quick and does good damamge.  I am not fully dps speced having gone down int line and deagro line for chanter tree.  I am also missing some eof aa still.  I can parse zone wide around 1100 which is not to terribly bad but I know that I can get that up much higher once my 30 days for aa spec wears off.  The main thing you need to do is get some proc gear, alot of it is relativly easy to get ie. orb of the invoker, bone clasped girdle, grizzfazzles staff.</p>

[Controlor]

Since illys are pretty much the speed casters of the EQ community i HIGHLY sugest you get as many proc gear that procs off spell cast as possible. This gear helps our dps out a lot more than any other class. This is because we cast so fast thus increasing the chance it would proc off. Combined with our low dmg nukes and what not the dps boost from it is significant. Altho i am not dps speced whenever i do dps i generally use this formula. Target mob. Chronosiphon -> prismatic chaos - > nuke -> solar shower -> nuke -> construct -> nuke -> abolish hope -> nuke -> ultraviolet -> nuke -> brainbust ->nuke ->tumor. And keep casting chronosiphon and prismatic chaos whenever able. Nuke every other cast. Try to keep your construct up as it adds to your dps. Let your dots wear themselves down The ultraviolet comes back fast so use that and the brainbust wears down fast so can usually get that in. For peeps who are int speced an wanna do max dps they generally stay low on pr and just keep it enough to stay in the 20-30% range. If you find that you dont have anything up that does dmg start using your non dmg spells like stuns and such to try to get your spells to proc. I think peeps also would pull out a pet and have that same name as yours to add to your dps. But agian i am not dps speced so i dont know everything they do but i would think its not that complicated to do.

[anaphaxeton]

Abolish Hope should be the first spell you cast on any mob as the mental/magic debuff will cause every tick of every spell thereafter to hit harder. Follow Abolish Hope with Brainburst... basically get your dots up and keep them up as every tick = more DPS. Then cycle through your spells as they refresh. Other than that illusionist DPS is pretty straightforward IMO.

[Mayve]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since illys are pretty much the speed casters of the EQ community i HIGHLY sugest you get as many proc gear that procs off spell cast as possible. This gear helps our dps out a lot more than any other class. This is because we cast so fast thus increasing the chance it would proc off. </blockquote>Last I heard spell cast times factor into proc chances and the faster the cast time the less likely the proc chance.  Therefore, our being the "speed casters of the EQ community" would be hurting us, not helping.

[Zebsen]

<p>I'm only a casual raider, but here is how I usually try to start things.  This is mostly a rehash of what other more knowledgeable people have posted over time.  As others mention - get as much proc gear as you can.  If you can't get that, get % crit gear.  I'm a casual raider, and virtually every piece of gear I have has some sort of proc/crit chance.  Agility/Int lines for volatile magic and at least chronosiphoning (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> are key.</p><p>Before pull: sprint to 40%.  On pull call, use momentary sentiment.  Make sure tank doesn't have agro yet or you will possibly die.</p><p>Mana flow self to get below 30% power.</p><p>On assist call:</p><p>Chronosiphoning to get cast speed up, Tribulation, Construct of Reason, Shim Beam, Brainburst, shim beam, Abolish Hope, Shim beam, Pris Chaos, Shim beam...</p><p>That's how I usually start on non-Aoe mobs.  You want construct up as long as possible.  If it's an AoE mob though, you want to cast it after an AoE goes off.  </p><p>I want brainburst ticking as soon as I can.  Wait till it expires for the DD at the end before recasting it - it's worth several ticks of damage and can trigger more procs.  To me it's worth casting this before Abolish hope as missing 1 tick of damage with abolish is worth having it expire and ready to recast sooner.</p><p>On epics, color shower's time delivery is very compressed (like 3-4 secs I think).  I always cast this before the fight is over, but I make sure I'm <30% power, abolish hope is up, and the mob is going to live > 5 secs to get max effect.  If the fight is going to last long enough for the recast to possibly come up again, I cast it sooner in the fight to get 2 uses out of it.</p><p>Before the EoF AAs came out, UV storm was the worst bang for the buck as far as single target damage, but that is before the brain clot AA that can trigger another proc.  </p><p>After the above list of spells, I try for pris chaos as soon as it pops, alternate shim beam as much as possible and if nothing else is up, I use abolish hope.  Even if brainburst is ready to be cast, make sure that the old one has expired before you recast it.</p><p>It's more about gear and group/raid setup than about the casting order in my experience.  Brigands help a lot; troubs, wizzies, and people with int buffs for the group help a lot more than an exact order for spells.  </p><p>Your mileage in your raid setup will vary.</p><p>Zebsen</p>

[WAPCE]

<cite>Mayve wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since illys are pretty much the speed casters of the EQ community i HIGHLY sugest you get as many proc gear that procs off spell cast as possible. This gear helps our dps out a lot more than any other class. This is because we cast so fast thus increasing the chance it would proc off. </blockquote>Last I heard spell cast times factor into proc chances and the faster the cast time the less likely the proc chance.  Therefore, our being the "speed casters of the EQ community" would be hurting us, not helping.</blockquote> No reply to this yet? Pinski must be living on Flames. Anyway, this is false. When the normalization changes were made, Lockeye clarified that all proc chances are based on the unhasted spell cast time, so you will raise your total number of procs as you cast more frequently. This was a long time ago and I've seen nothing to make me believe it isn't the case today.

[Spryt]

It's all about the cast order and what gear you have to get good dps for an illusionst. Without atleast some proc or damage crit gear I find it very hard to parse near the top. The way I do it is to get to around 30% power before pull. Then as tank pulls manaflow the ma. On assist call cast Sentiment -> Siphon -> Tribulation -> AH -> Chaos -> Brainburst -> Beam -> Solar Shower -> Beam ->  Tumor -> Beam -> Gazes -> Beam -> and so on. Basicly cast something, then Beam, next spell and Beam. Just make sure you never stop casting but at the same time dont run out of power. A slow MA is an illusionists worse enemy <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But if you time it right you can keep casting even as they switch targets. AE, Chaos or Extract are great for inbetween mobs.

[steveatk]

<p>That first Mana Flow should be on yourself by the way unless you either have a lot of power proc gear or don't mind losing dps while casting Gaze or Mana Flow again when you don't need to.</p><p>It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, that Savante should be up whenever you cast Mana Flow for obvious reasons.</p><p>And yes a slow MA is a pain, when you are casting like the wind and have to stop and are left itching for a target before your haste drops. That MA is wasting precious proc'ing time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Dallun]

Another thing to consider is that Lag matters a LOT when it comes to your DPS... Follow everything mentioned above but stare at a wall with as little as you can see as possible and you will find that your castings will go much smoother.  (With regards to raids)  Also, the 2k DPS number do come with raids (at least thats the only way I can reach them) and I'm not sure they are possible in a group set up.  Dallun / Fione 70 Warden / 70 Illusionist Antonia Bayle

[Manyak]

<p>I'm surprised no1 has mentioned casting Prismatic Chaos on the tank before the pull. This lets the recast timer start counting down before you even engage, while you still get the damage.</p><p>Also, i suggest reading this thread:</p><p><a href='http://www.eq2flames.com/showthread.php?t=5409' target='_blank' rel="nofollow">http://www.eq2flames.com/showthread.php?t=5409</a></p>

[Slackerx]

<p>i agree with the other posts...other then puting savant up then casting mana flow on pull...if im on 30% power then cast savant then flow im well over 30% power when mana flow regens my power...also if you have a large number of mana proc items you can fight for a long time under 30% power and never run dry...(i do have quite a few dmg procs/mana procs) what i do is start out at 30% power then if the fight runs long enough and i get down to 5% or less power i pop up savante and by the time savante runs out im up to 25-30% power</p><p> other then that do what everyone else says...beam/dot/beam/other spell and so on</p><p>also group set up makes a big difference.. if im in the mage group with a trub im at 2-2.5k dps constintaly if im in the scout/melee dps group im lucky to break 2kdps once in a while.. so (this is for the orignal poster) if your doing 1.3k dps in the scout group with minimal poc grear i would say you are doing perty danm good and the only thing you need to do is upgrade some of your slots with proc items.</p><p>Dulamar</p><p>70 illusionst  Forsaken</p><p>Lucan</p>

[MrCartoon69]

What is the DPS I should aim to as wis/agi AAed? My gear is kinda poor still,so no or very few procs.

[Controlor]

Zoey@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>What is the DPS I should aim to as wis/agi AAed? My gear is kinda poor still,so no or very few procs. </blockquote>I am currently agi/wis speced and can put out 750 - 850 personal 950-1150 w/ pet (in a raid). agi/int spec look to be 1500+ with pet. I have 6 peices of proccing gear (some non damaging tho) and synergism on... Still lookin for more proccing gear.

[Slackerx]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Zoey@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>What is the DPS I should aim to as wis/agi AAed? My gear is kinda poor still,so no or very few procs. </blockquote>I am currently agi/wis speced and can put out 750 - 850 personal 950-1150 w/ pet (in a raid). agi/int spec look to be 1500+ with pet. I have 6 peices of proccing gear (some non damaging tho) and synergism on... Still lookin for more proccing gear. </blockquote><p> A decient geared/mastered Agi/Int speced should do 2k+ WITH OUT a pet up......illusionst should never have there pets up in raid our buffs add dps to 5 other people witch adds up to way more dps then the pet does</p><p>Dulamar</p><p>70 illusionst forsaken</p><p>Lucan</p>

[Manyak]

<cite>Slackerx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Zoey@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>What is the DPS I should aim to as wis/agi AAed? My gear is kinda poor still,so no or very few procs. </blockquote>I am currently agi/wis speced and can put out 750 - 850 personal 950-1150 w/ pet (in a raid). agi/int spec look to be 1500+ with pet. I have 6 peices of proccing gear (some non damaging tho) and synergism on... Still lookin for more proccing gear. </blockquote><p> A decient geared/mastered Agi/Int speced should do 2k+ WITH OUT a pet up......illusionst should never have there pets up in raid our buffs add dps to 5 other people witch adds up to way more dps then the pet does</p></blockquote>unless you have a wizard and troubador in group (warlock/dirge/templar wouldnt hurt either), and you are putting it up instead of 3 synergisms.

[MrCartoon69]

Thank you all for your replies<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Slackerx]

<cite>Manyak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Slackerx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Zoey@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>What is the DPS I should aim to as wis/agi AAed? My gear is kinda poor still,so no or very few procs. </blockquote>I am currently agi/wis speced and can put out 750 - 850 personal 950-1150 w/ pet (in a raid). agi/int spec look to be 1500+ with pet. I have 6 peices of proccing gear (some non damaging tho) and synergism on... Still lookin for more proccing gear. </blockquote><p> A decient geared/mastered Agi/Int speced should do 2k+ WITH OUT a pet up......illusionst should never have there pets up in raid our buffs add dps to 5 other people witch adds up to way more dps then the pet does</p></blockquote>unless you have a wizard and troubador in group (warlock/dirge/templar wouldnt hurt either), and you are putting it up instead of 3 synergisms. </blockquote><p>Are you saying you should put up your pet insted of 3 synergisms? (i sure hope not) any raiding illusionsit that know anything about game mecanics and dps does not put there pet up in raid...for 1 you can cast syner across raid so even if there isnt a good target in your group there are good targets somwhere else in the raid..2nd experiment with having other people buffed vs having your pet up (the benifits will be obvious) 3rd puting your pet up in raid is just a selfish way of trying to make your personal dps higher. 4th our pet will dies the first ae that hits it and in EOF it is very hard to avoid ae's expecialy on named fight. you might get away with it on trash fights or in kos raids but its pointless having a pet up on end game encounters and most named fight.......If you were saying put synergism up insted of your pet im sorry i dont mean to bust your balls... your statement there is very unclear and i dont realy understand what you are trying to say</p><p>Clarification....Buffing others will rais the OVER ALL DPS OF THE ENTIRE RAID FORCE not just your personal dps</p><p>Dulamar</p><p>70 illusionist Forsaken</p><p>Lucan </p>

[Valanthe]

Actually, a Synergismed pet will give you more bang for the buck than 3 Synergisms on other people if you have a competent Wizard and Troub. Which is what Many was saying.

[Slackerx]

ok so having a pet up is only ok in very rare cases...i for one never get the chance...my guildies flip out if they dont have buffs for more then 3sec.....just onticed something...having a syng/pet would take 4 slots plus 1 slot for syng for yourself...is the dps benifit still better for the raid over all if all your con slot are taken up that way...(with wiz and trub) ?

[Controlor]

You have to remember tho that buffing someone else is upping their dps. So upping your own personal dps is what you have to consider with upping their. The buff isnt a group buff so it only effects those you cast on. A synergismed pet on its own w/o wizard or troub will add about 1500-250 dps to yourself. Buffing 4 other people would prob add 200-400. This number varies depending on speed of caster can be less can be more. With a wiz/troub i am guessing it is higher than that 400 total dps. Unfortunatly i cant confirm the total it adds w/ wiz and troub as we are lacking a troub and i am usually in MT or OT group depending if our coercer shows or not. But usually i only pull my pet out in the easier raid instances in KoS such as labs. Which case my pets resists are lower and even in a OT group it will do more than synergism across raids.

[Manyak]

<cite>Valanthe wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually, a Synergismed pet will give you more bang for the buck than 3 Synergisms on other people if you have a competent Wizard and Troub. Which is what Many was saying. </blockquote><p> Synergism on the pet has nothing to do with it!!!</p><p>Its just that a pet (3 concs) will do more dps when it is buffed by a wizard and troub (assuming that those 2 dont slack) than 3 synergisms will, no matter who you are thinking of casting them on.</p>

[Manyak]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>A synergismed pet on its own w/o wizard or troub will add about 1500-250 dps to yourself. Buffing 4 other people would prob add 200-400. </blockquote><p>QFE.</p><p>A pet without BOTH wizard and troub buffs is a piece of crap. But with them, its pretty good.</p>

[Phineus]

<p> Personal dps is very raid dependent. If your raid wide is 10k dps you arent goint to do 2k. If you raid is doing 40k rw then 3k should be np. So to suggest what dps someone should do is like shooting in the dark. I can hit 2k+ if raid wide is over 25k. </p><p> I made targetting keys for slow ma, closest mob key and last target plus macro the tank and ma with the dmg proc on the tank macro. I target another mob and get abolish ticcing then switch back to ma. Or you can put your dmg proc on the tank or power tap yourself. Any which way dont stop casting if you have perpetualilty. Once you get practiced at all the macros and targetting keys your dps goes way up.</p><p> I use my pet in farm zones to see if I can grab #1 dps zw. Mostly to keep from getting bored.</p>

[MrCartoon69]

I am speccing INT/AGI today for the first time for our next LABS run instead of WIS/AGI. I am kinda freaked about running out of power,but i rly wanna try it<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Do you guys have any problems casting sentiment at start? i mean i never do it,tried a few times in mage grp and our wiz got agro in a sec. Any PVP illus have any idea how much loss of 800vs magic and 42 subjug will show in dying even faster in pvp? And my other question is regarding dots on raids-do you wait til the dot expires before you recast or you recast as soon as its up?

[Mihos]

<p>Just make sure you cast sentiment before the pull and not during.  Let the wizard handle his own agro.  I do it sometimes since it seems to help with chronosiphon resists... god I hate when that resists at the start.</p><p>Power shouldn't be an issue.  If you mana flow yourself around 40 ish to put yourself down, and then cast it again while Savante is on the next time, you should have no problem staying under 30% but not out of power in most fights.  On the longer fights like the dual sentries in MMIS, you might use a heart/shard/overclocked manastone etc, but still not too hard to keep between 10-30%.   I actually like that they made our damage tied to how well we manage our power.  One of the few things that fits the class, like all of our illusions.. oh , wait...</p><p>I don't know crap about PvP.</p>

[MrCartoon69]

Thanks Mihos for your reply<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ardnahoy]

<p>These are just casual observations from my illy:</p><ol><li>Standard self spell damage (no proc gear, pets, AA) is about 400 </li><li>INT line improves DPS by about 200-400 DPS</li><li>INT line with Volatile Magic active adds 200-400 DPS</li><li>Chrono adds about 100-200 DPS</li><li>Perp adds about 200-300 DPS</li><li>Common proc gear adds about 200-400 DPS</li><li>Good group makeup adds 200-400 DPS</li><li>Buffed pet adds about 200-400 DPS</li></ol><p>My typical raid encounter DPS when I actually put in the effort to keep VM up is 1500-2100.</p><p>My typical raid encounter DPS when I just spam spells and not worry about VM is 1100-1400.</p><p>When I'm not in the mage group, I'm usually in the scout group for mana regen and my DPS drops by about 300.</p><p>When I bust out the pet and give him some love, DPS goes up by about 400.</p>

[Yarginis]

In a <b>crap </b>raid with minimal proc gear, about 60% mastered and treasured/legendary equip I can usually do ~1500 when I actually pay attention and get my mana levels correct. (Which i often give up on doing because it's frustrating to A: almost constantly be beating the mages I have buffed in the parse; and B: get aggro and die because the tank can't even hold off 1500 unless the Coercer in the MT group casts de-aggro on me) This is in a raid for which 12k is a good parse btw. : If the rest of the raid were more competent I could probably go higher. I've also never tried ditching group buffs for pet it raid because that does seem quite selfish, and not what an Ilus should do, but it is tempting just to make the rest of the dps look even more idiotic. (Yes, the RL does see the parse and comment on how I'm constantly topping it, yet the dps doesn't improve)

[illuminare]

<p>i always use my pet in a troubador+wiz group when clearing trash mobs ex:EH,MIS</p><p>can do about 2.7k~4k</p><p>never waste synergism on my pet...</p>

[kamieldehond]

<cite>illuminare wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>i always use my pet in a troubador+wiz group when clearing trash mobs ex:EH,MIS</p><p>can do about 2.7k~4k</p><p>never waste synergism on my pet...</p></blockquote><p>do you use a cast order or just bash your buttons? if you have a cast order could you post it plz?</p><p>i do a little over 2k in a caster group on trash in EH without a pet </p>

[TwistedFaith]

Noob question but apart from the INT buff how does being grouped with a Wizzy help the pets dps?

[auk]

<cite>TwistedFaith wrote:</cite><blockquote>Noob question but apart from the INT buff how does being grouped with a Wizzy help the pets dps?</blockquote>Frigid Gift