If 45% Warg run speed is the correct speed then...

[Sir Longsword]

<p>I posted this deep in the New Mount info thread, but decided to bring it out to see what others thought.  I'm very curious to hear from both sides of the argument. </p><p>Ok, so the mount was reduced 5% from the 50% speed it was at on test and most people on the 'nerf it' side are ok with that.  "It's in line with progression", they say.   </p><p>Following this train of thought then shouldn't everything follow this model?   It appears the 5% difference is acceptable and in line with progression.  I would like to start with armor.  </p><p>Using treasured as a baseline, then Mastercrafted should be 5% better than treasured, Legendary should be 5% better than mastercrafted and finally Fabled to be 5% better than Legendary.  No one can complain about that then right?  It's progression and in line.  </p><p>I see some nerfs that need to happen to keep everyone happy.  </p>

[Kizee]

Hammerfist@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote><p>I posted this deep in the New Mount info thread, but decided to bring it out to see what others thought.  I'm very curious to hear from both sides of the argument. </p><p>Ok, so the mount was reduced 5% from the 50% speed it was at on test and most people on the 'nerf it' side are ok with that.  "It's in line with progression", they say.   </p><p>Following this train of thought then shouldn't everything follow this model?   It appears the 5% difference is acceptable and in line with progression.  I would like to start with armor.  </p><p>Using treasured as a baseline, then Mastercrafted should be 5% better than treasured, Legendary should be 5% better than mastercrafted and finally Fabled to be 5% better than Legendary.  No one can complain about that then right?  It's progression and in line.  </p><p>I see some nerfs that need to happen to keep everyone happy.  </p></blockquote><p>Progression is messed up in this game.</p><p>Fabled should always be the best but as it is right now there is alot of legendary better than fabled.</p><p>To add to that.... raid fabled should always be better than heroic instance fabled. </p>

[Gargamel]

<p>And you'll notice nobody replied to this there either.</p><p>Because its a silly, childish, temper tantrum of a post.</p><p>That is how things generally are.  With mount we were talking run speed only so you can quantify the 5% run speed very precisely.</p><p>When you talk about gear, there are several factors.  Mitigation, base stats, resists, procs, special abilities, etc.</p><p>Treasured is worse than legendar which is worse than fabled, but gear also has levels.  A lvl 70 treasured piece may easily be better than a lvl 61 legendary, so its much harder to be 'precise' but you don't care about that.</p><p>This little post of yours was just was just a very weak argument and a very transparent camouflage of more of your crying from there.</p>

[NiteWolfe]

I personaly do not like the 45% run speed i wanted it to stay 50%.  was looking forward to using this mount instead of the gl 60 horse.  other than looks its now a downgrade for me. swashy is on gl60 horse so i lose 5% run speed. warden already runs at 45% mystic is at 45% also due to racial bonus. ranger is at 51% run speed due to racial.  so other than cool factor there really is no reason for me now to get this mount.  so from my prespective its a waste and i wish they had left it at 50%.  Yes this comes from a player that is in a level 60 guild that already has the 50% horse on my main.

[Kenazeer]

Hammerfist@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote><p>I posted this deep in the New Mount info thread, but decided to bring it out to see what others thought.  I'm very curious to hear from both sides of the argument. </p><p>Ok, so the mount was reduced 5% from the 50% speed it was at on test and most people on the 'nerf it' side are ok with that.  "It's in line with progression", they say.   </p><p>Following this train of thought then shouldn't everything follow this model?   It appears the 5% difference is acceptable and in line with progression.  I would like to start with armor.  </p><p>Using treasured as a baseline, then Mastercrafted should be 5% better than treasured, Legendary should be 5% better than mastercrafted and finally Fabled to be 5% better than Legendary.  No one can complain about that then right?  It's progression and in line.  </p><p>I see some nerfs that need to happen to keep everyone happy.  </p></blockquote>Your post is absurd flamebait.

[valkyrja]

I agree that progression should mean that each tier of gear is better than those below them, though that isn't always the case.  However, you can't use a difference of 5% as a basline from mounts because a mount is a glorified speed buff.  Buffs don't follow the same upgrade path as gear does.  Run speeds don't effect your chances to defeat an encounter, though for some classes (mages) they do give you a slightly better chance at living when you have to run away. That said, I'm sure something like this does already (roughly) exist in the item design department, though I have no idea how it's calculated.  The other thing to consider is, the game is currently balanced around the way gear is designed, so if they made swooping changes they would have to readjust all the mobs so players don't end up too weak or too powerful.  Oh and your post is clearly flame-bait.

[Sir Longsword]

<cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And you'll notice nobody replied to this there either.</p><p>Because its a silly, childish, temper tantrum of a post.</p><p>That is how things generally are.  With mount we were talking run speed only so you can quantify the 5% run speed very precisely.</p><p>When you talk about gear, there are several factors.  Mitigation, base stats, resists, procs, special abilities, etc.</p><p>Treasured is worse than legendar which is worse than fabled, but gear also has levels.  A lvl 70 treasured piece may easily be better than a lvl 61 legendary, so its much harder to be 'precise' but you don't care about that.</p><p>This little post of yours was just was just a very weak argument and a very transparent camouflage of more of your crying from there.</p></blockquote>I am not crying at all and the only childish antics is your name calling.  I'm finding out how people feel about it.  Reading your reply and my post, you think it's me who has a temper or you?

[InsertNeko]

I think it makes all the effort we put into Gl60 pointless if they're going to hand out 50% dogs to everyone. I'd be happier w/40% or under. It's bad enough now that anyone can get a complete set of legendary thats (in some cases) a lot better than the eof fabled class sets (conj specificly, as conj fabled is junk compared to legendary set). "progression" is very objective in eof, and by objective I mean "completely and utterly random and unbalanced". Why bother raiding if the average joe can run out and spend an hour in a zone and get bettr gear. Why bother getting your guild to level 60 when the average joe can go out and get a dog that's just as good as that 14p horse? Why bother at all?

[Krooner]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hammerfist@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote><p>I posted this deep in the New Mount info thread, but decided to bring it out to see what others thought.  I'm very curious to hear from both sides of the argument. </p><p>Ok, so the mount was reduced 5% from the 50% speed it was at on test and most people on the 'nerf it' side are ok with that.  "It's in line with progression", they say.   </p><p>Following this train of thought then shouldn't everything follow this model?   It appears the 5% difference is acceptable and in line with progression.  I would like to start with armor.  </p><p>Using treasured as a baseline, then Mastercrafted should be 5% better than treasured, Legendary should be 5% better than mastercrafted and finally Fabled to be 5% better than Legendary.  No one can complain about that then right?  It's progression and in line.  </p><p>I see some nerfs that need to happen to keep everyone happy.  </p></blockquote><p><b><u><span style="color: #990000">Progression is messed up in this game.</span></u></b></p><p>Fabled should always be the best but as it is right now there is alot of legendary better than fabled.</p><p>To add to that.... raid fabled should always be better than heroic instance fabled. </p></blockquote>               Its kinda hard to progress a game that hasnt really moved forward in over a year. 

[Sir Longsword]

<a href="mailto:Hisenflaye@Crushbone" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Hisenflaye@Crushbone</a> wrote: <blockquote>It's bad enough now that anyone can get a complete set of legendary thats (in some cases) a lot better than the eof fabled class sets (conj specificly, as conj fabled is junk compared to legendary set). Why bother at all? </blockquote><p> Conjuror Fabled vs. Legendary</p><p><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/images/loot/1542.jpg" border="0"></p><p>Legendary --> <a href="http://www.eq2idb.com/item_details.php?item=MTYxMzcwMTE5NA==" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.eq2idb.com/item_details....TYxMzcwMTE5NA==</a></p><p>I can see how the legendary beats the heck out of the fabled, that's weaksauce.....</p>

[valkyrja]

<img src="http://sparq-l.com/stuff/images/misc/redx-starwars.jpg" border="0">

[Sir Longsword]

<p>edit: fixed previous post with a link.  Please disregard this one <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Draco the Grey]

Hisenflaye@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>I think it makes all the effort we put into Gl60 pointless if they're going to hand out 50% dogs to everyone. I'd be happier w/40% or under. It's bad enough now that anyone can get a complete set of legendary thats (in some cases) a lot better than the eof fabled class sets (conj specificly, as conj fabled is junk compared to legendary set). </blockquote><p>Exaggerating just a bit there?  I don't own a single piece of the Legendary set, nor do I care to.  I'd gladly take the full Fabled set, on the other hand.  Its neat that 6 piece bonus for the legandary set does something useful for the pet, but its pretty much useless in raids, and isn't worth using 6 pieces of legendary.  If I didn't raid, though, the legendary set would be a perfectly fine set.</p><p>45% is fine for the Wargs, though.  50% would be WAY too high for the minimal time and money investment it takes to acquire one.  This from someone who's still riding around on a 40% Elddarian Charger. </p>

[Devilsbane]

<cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote>I personaly do not like the 45% run speed i wanted it to stay 50%.  was looking forward to using this mount instead of the gl 60 horse.  other than looks its now a downgrade for me. swashy is on gl60 horse so i lose 5% run speed. <b>warden already runs at 45% </b>mystic is at 45% also due to racial bonus. ranger is at 51% run speed due to racial.  so other than cool factor there really is no reason for me now to get this mount.  so from my prespective its a waste and i wish they had left it at 50%.  Yes this comes from a player that is in a level 60 guild that already has the 50% horse on my main. </blockquote>Not true, Wardens and Furies can have 63% in/out of combat run speed. Plus a Fury using their temp speed buff and sprint can achieve 100% for about 90 secs.

[DngrMou]

<cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote>I personaly do not like the 45% run speed i wanted it to stay 50%.  was looking forward to using this mount instead of the gl 60 horse.  other than looks its now a downgrade for me. swashy is on gl60 horse so i lose 5% run speed. warden already runs at 45% mystic is at 45% also due to racial bonus. ranger is at 51% run speed due to racial.  so other than cool factor there really is no reason for me now to get this mount.  so from my prespective its a waste and i wish they had left it at 50%.  Yes this comes from a player that is in a level 60 guild that already has the 50% horse on my main. </blockquote> Fae warden with racial, and jboots.....60% run speed!  And they all still have 5 plat in their pockets, and are'nt riding around on something that looks like it was raised on steroids.  Yes, life -is- good.

[Espyderman]

Hammerfist@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote><p>I posted this deep in the New Mount info thread, but decided to bring it out to see what others thought.  I'm very curious to hear from both sides of the argument. </p><p>Ok, so the mount was reduced 5% from the 50% speed it was at on test and most people on the 'nerf it' side are ok with that.  "It's in line with progression", they say.   </p><p>Following this train of thought then shouldn't everything follow this model?   It appears the 5% difference is acceptable and in line with progression.  I would like to start with armor.  </p><p>Using treasured as a baseline, then Mastercrafted should be 5% better than treasured, Legendary should be 5% better than mastercrafted and finally Fabled to be 5% better than Legendary.  No one can complain about that then right?  It's progression and in line.  </p><p>I see some nerfs that need to happen to keep everyone happy.  </p></blockquote><p>Here's some more progression for you mount lovers</p><p>Warden with SOW and AA Buffed SOW = 45% run speed</p><p>Wardens Buffed AA SOW with Legendary Journeyman Boots - 55% run speed</p><p>Makes EQ2 mounts not priceless, more like useless.</p><p>Dont waste your plat on mounts that look like crap and dont progress as they should, just hire a warden or make one and you will have all the run speed in the world.</p><p>Add to that a bard and be afraid, be very afraid. </p><p>BTW together we saved 28p, i tank, she heals, we kick butt. Plus we run faster then any one mounted as well, inside a dungeon or out. I see no reason to have mounts anymore at all excepot for stature of ones character which shouldnt really mean crap anyways.</p>

[ZUES]

<p>My opinion is a new mount to the game should have been upwards of the 50% run speed. I also think that it should have been substantially harder to get. A "heritage" type of hard if you get my drift. I think the 45% is a downgrade for most end users. Seriously what percentage of this game is end users? If I threw out a guess I would say 75%. We are the faithful customers who have undergone countless disappointments, nerfs, etc but have remained. We stay to see what comes next. We are eagerly awaiting end game content! So in short I'm disappointed with the warg and have done the quest for the AA exp only. I remain faithful to my gl60 mount and wont downgrade for any reason.</p><p>As far as fabled versus legendary is concerned the OP is correct. Yes there is tons of fables upgrades to each and every slot. But for the most part Legendary can blow some fabled out of the water. Unless you have a well organized guild that is hitting contested targets and clearing EoF raid zones like Emerals Halls, then you will be hard pressed to find some slot upgrades that are better than legendary. Notice I said "some slots". All my fable gear that I wear is from raiding as is most of my legendary items.</p>

[Espyderman]

<cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My opinion is a new mount to the game should have been upwards of the 50% run speed. I also think that it should have been substantially harder to get. A "heritage" type of hard if you get my drift. I think the 45% is a downgrade for most end users. Seriously what percentage of this game is end users? If I threw out a guess I would say 75%. We are the faithful customers who have undergone countless disappointments, nerfs, etc but have remained. We stay to see what comes next. We are eagerly awaiting end game content! So in short I'm disappointed with the warg and have done the quest for the AA exp only. I remain faithful to my gl60 mount and wont downgrade for any reason.</p><p>As far as fabled versus legendary is concerned the OP is correct. Yes there is tons of fables upgrades to each and every slot. But for the most part Legendary can blow some fabled out of the water. Unless you have a well organized guild that is hitting contested targets and clearing EoF raid zones like Emerals Halls, then you will be hard pressed to find some slot upgrades that are better than legendary. Notice I said "some slots". All my fable gear that I wear is from raiding as is most of my legendary items.</p></blockquote><p>I agree, progession should go further, however, they have expansions to consider down the line. If they put it at 60% now, then by the time the last expansion is out we could very well be at 100%. Not that their is anything wrong with it, but im betting SOE has ideas about what should go 100% and what shouldn't</p><p>Its hard to judge a game when its only halfway done, whether or not things are fair or not, only the end game can tell us that, and with no end game in sight all we can do is grab at straws.</p><p>Fact is we are not game developers or even game designers, nor do we have any idea how many expansions they have planned. So to speak of progression when a key point of the argument is missing is futile. </p>

[Tomanak]

Katryna@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><p>45% is fine for the Wargs, though.  <b>50% would be WAY too high for the minimal time and money investment it takes to acquire one</b>.  This from someone who's still riding around on a 40% Elddarian Charger. </p></blockquote> and this is all that needs to be said. The quest takes about 10-15 minutes and 5 plat is couch change for most. Its a little bump from the carpet and IMO is a cool looking mount. SOE did good.

[Hellswrath]

Sugota@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>Katryna@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><p>45% is fine for the Wargs, though.  <b>50% would be WAY too high for the minimal time and money investment it takes to acquire one</b>.  This from someone who's still riding around on a 40% Elddarian Charger. </p></blockquote> and this is all that needs to be said. The quest takes about 10-15 minutes and 5 plat is couch change for most. Its a little bump from the carpet and IMO is a cool looking mount. SOE did good. </blockquote><p> Indeed, that pretty much covers everything.  Except, of course, to mention that the OP is still flame bait.  Glad to see that the community didn't get hooked into another discussion about fabled vs. legendary for too long.  </p><p>I really think we should just let this thread die as it should, and post our runspeed discussions back in the other thread.</p>

[Oakum]

<p>I think that by crying nerf on wargs due to the Guild lvl 60 horses speed we (as in the general player base) got what we wanted or what the Dev's think we wanted and it works for the dev's in other ways too.</p><p>By nerfing the warg they removed the effective ability for us to argue about the quality of the post 30 guild rewards and get them made into something special again. It used to be that guild Lvl 30 was worth getting because there were things like the horse, carpet, and reduced cost and bigger houses that came with it that were useful.  After that the extra bank slots are probably the best rewards. The guild cloaks designs are expensive fluff that I never even notice in the game normally, especially when I can't change my Cloak of Flames to it. The signets are usefull but how often does the average player buy them or even think about them except for raid time?</p><p>Now the dev's just have to say "we reduced the warg speed to make the high lvl guilds happy, what more do you want you ingrates?" Of course they would not use those words but thats what they would mean. </p><p>I think they should have made the quest a lot longer even with mindless killing of heroics if necessary and left the speed alone while the cost should have been the time invested in getting the quest done and not 5 plat. As we all know, our time is the biggest, most valuable thing we invest in the game (if you have a life that is, lol) unless you buy plat on an exchange server on a regular basis. </p><p>I have seen some good ideas for guild lvl rewards like guild houses, things that could be put in guild houses, discounts at certain merchants/brokers and more signets like onetime ports to any zone, evac, 5 tracking charges, ect that I would believe would have a lot more value to higher lvl guild members and a better use of time and energy for those in guilds to fight for then the warg nerf.  </p><p>/sarcasm on "But hey, we got our priorities straight and got the wargs nerfed and are now happy with the guild reward system again,BOOYAH." /sarcasm off.</p>

[Xev]

Something I didn't see anyone else mention is that, most likely, this won't be the only Worg mount added to the game.  I bet they will add upgrades for it with faster speed and better graphics (ie. armor, glowing, etc like what the guards ride in neriak) that are only obtainable through harder quests, cost more money and/or require a specific guild level to obtain. It makes no sense to assume that this is the only version of the warg mount there will be.