Troub EoF armor set [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Pogopuschel

04-24-2007, 03:11 AM

<cite>Vraneth wrote:</cite><blockquote>The troub set is crap, here's a few issues:3 pieces bonus is useless ( I don't even use that CA, it lowers my DPS)5 pices bonus is too low, it should be 8% (like other classes have it)7 pieces bonus is useless ( I don't use that useless buff because it doesn't add anything)There's only 4 decent pieces: BP, Boots, Shoulders and Gloves (which has WIS instead of INT, but still is decent)The pants have crappy stats and a crappy effect.The hat have crappy stats so has the bracers.</blockquote> ! 'nuff said EDIT: No, actually not enough. For those who don't know what these set bonusses actually are: 3 pieces - increases damage of Clara's Midnight Tempo by 60 What the fluff? There' already better stuff out there, called a "single piece of relic gear". Noone, repeat noone would be stupid enough to wear 3 relic set items for that! The only time you'd ever use this one is when a mob needs heavy debuffing, the damage part is irrelevant since (including getting stealthed) you cast 3 seconds for like what - 1200 damage? Yes yes, there's those with the AGI-line out there, and they have bump blahblah. We're talking about gear from raids for raiders. All raiding Troubs who ever want to acquire 3 pieces just cannot miss out on STR or WIS lines, so they do not have this luxury... 5 pieces - 6% spell crit chance increase Halfway decent, arguable if 6% is so much... generally I can live with that one, it is a nice and actual bonus. 7 pieces - Focus: Dove Song. Increases subjugation, ordinatio n etc of Dove Song by 10 Huh? You have to be kidding me. The bloody AoA-proc increase on the breastplate is ten times more worth than this. Seriously, who uses Dove Song? I used to put it up when pulling orange con mobs until they were debuffed, but even that was a waste. That thing takes a concentration slot. Who cares if they get 1% more (spell) resists during the first 5s of the fight? Maybe the tank with taunts. Well guess what, Troubadours and tanks are not in the same group unless all dirges and coercers have a day off. I would have to use words that would certainly overload the swear filter to express my disappointment with these set bonuses. Especially the 7-piece one. The only worse itemization in the game is probably the cloak with 2% heal crit increase t hat can be worn by Troubadours (well at least that one gave me a good laugh). Single items have cool stats and resists. But there is no incentive to wear the set as such.

Novusod

04-24-2007, 07:38 AM

Uyaem@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote> ! 'nuff said EDIT: No, actually not enough. For those who don't know what these set bonusses actually are: 3 pieces - increases damage of Clara's Midnight Tempo by 60 What the fluff? There' already better stuff out there, called a "single piece of relic gear". Noone, repeat noone would be stupid enough to wear 3 relic set items for that! The only time you'd ever use this one is when a mob needs heavy debuffing, the damage part is irrelevant since (including getting stealthed) you cast 3 seconds for like what - 1200 damage? Yes yes, there's those with the AGI-line out there, and they have bump blahblah. We're talking about gear from raids for raiders. All raiding Troubs who ever want to acquire 3 pieces just cannot miss out on STR or WIS lines, so they do not have this luxury... 5 pieces - 6% spell crit chance increase Halfway decent, arguable if 6% is so much... generally I can live with that one, it is a nice and actual bonus. 7 pieces - Focus: Dove Song. Increases subjugation, ordinatio n etc of Dove Song by 10 Huh? You have to be kidding me. The bloody AoA-proc increase on the breastplate is ten times more worth than this. Seriously, who uses Dove Song? I used to put it up when pulling orange con mobs until they were debuffed, but even that was a waste. That thing takes a concentration slot. Who cares if they get 1% more (spell) resists during the first 5s of the fight? Maybe the tank with taunts. Well guess what, Troubadours and tanks are not in the same group unless all dirges and coercers have a day off. I would have to use words that would certainly overload the swear filter to express my disappointment with these set bonuses. Especially the 7-piece one. The only worse itemization in the game is probably the cloak with 2% heal crit increase t hat can be worn by Troubadours (well at least that one gave me a good laugh). Single items have cool stats and resists. But there is no incentive to wear the set as such. </blockquote>3 Pieces: I actually do use Clara's Midnight Tempo because I went down the AGI line instead of the WIS line and I have been raiding EoF content. The WIS line is not the end all be all for troubadors. I have had clara's crit at 3000 damage so it is by no means fluff. They should probably double the bonus from 60 to 120 because a 2% bonus is not much for the best gear in the game. 7 Pieces: I almost always have dove song up for its' extra disruption. The mages like it and I like because it ups our dps at least as much as aria does and sometimes even more so. Adding +10 to dove song is actually a damm good bonus for me.

Topan

04-24-2007, 08:26 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dove Song - I like because it ups our dps at least as much as aria does and sometimes even more so. </blockquote>You're saying +28 Disruption > 30% chance to proc 300ish+ damage on spell casts? On the OT: 3 piece bonus for you guys seems [Removed for Content], you all should have gotten a reduced recast to PotM or something... I would be somewhat willing to admit the Dirge 3 bonus is overpowered, but if adding 60 damage to our backstab debuff was all we got for 3 pieces I would be pretty disappointed. The 5 piece bonus for Dirge/Troub seem pretty equal, both buff our dps a bit, dirge by gaining chance to hit and Troub through a critical boost. The 7 piece seems not worth it for bards overall but they buff comperable spell lines anyway.

Vraneth

04-24-2007, 09:28 AM

Topanga@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dove Song - I like because it ups our dps at least as much as aria does and sometimes even more so. </blockquote>You're saying +28 Disruption > 30% chance to proc 300ish+ damage on spell casts? On the OT: 3 piece bonus for you guys seems [Removed for Content], you all should have gotten a reduced recast to PotM or something... I would be somewhat willing to admit the Dirge 3 bonus is overpowered, but if adding 60 damage to our backstab debuff was all we got for 3 pieces I would be pretty disappointed. The 5 piece bonus for Dirge/Troub seem pretty equal, both buff our dps a bit, dirge by gaining chance to hit and Troub through a critical boost. The 7 piece seems not worth it for bards overall but they buff comperable spell lines anyway. </blockquote> The thing is, that if you're in a pure DPS setting as a dirge, you are probobly gonna run Boon, and we also know that Boon > Dove Song, Boon actually ups the dirges DPS by quite a bit aswell as the groups DPS whereas Dove song does jack [Removed for Content].

Topan

04-24-2007, 11:39 AM

Yea I agree with you there Boon is a much stronger buff. It can be helpful for MT group against oranges if you dont have a warden in the group, and is always up for DPS group helping to hit %s for scouts on yellows and oranges. So I see the point that it atleast buffs something we use, but still personally even if I had all 7 pieces of the set, there are many fabled pieces I would rather equip then achieve the 7 piece bonus. To me, not a Troub so the point may very well be moot, it seems the 3 piece bonus is really the biggest short coming of set when compared to the Dirge set. For Dirge the Cacophony recast reduction is the easiest bonus to get and is far and away the best one, for Troub the 3 piece bonus seems to be debatably the worst bonus (maybe the 7 piece is worse, by responces some saying it is worthless and others seem content with it). Eitherway definitely seems like you guys got shafted on at least one of your bonuses.

ForgottenFoundling

04-25-2007, 12:23 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Uyaem@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote> ! 'nuff said EDIT: No, actually not enough. For those who don't know what these set bonusses actually are: 3 pieces - increases damage of Clara's Midnight Tempo by 60 What the fluff? There' already better stuff out there, called a "single piece of relic gear". Noone, repeat noone would be stupid enough to wear 3 relic set items for that! The only time you'd ever use this one is when a mob needs heavy debuffing, the damage part is irrelevant since (including getting stealthed) you cast 3 seconds for like what - 1200 damage? Yes yes, there's those with the AGI-line out there, and they have bump blahblah. We're talking about gear from raids for raiders. All raiding Troubs who ever want to acquire 3 pieces just cannot miss out on STR or WIS lines, so they do not have this luxury... 5 pieces - 6% spell crit chance increase Halfway decent, arguable if 6% is so much... generally I can live with that one, it is a nice and actual bonus. 7 pieces - Focus: Dove Song. Increases subjugation, ordinatio n etc of Dove Song by 10 Huh? You have to be kidding me. The bloody AoA-proc increase on the breastplate is ten times more worth than this. Seriously, who uses Dove Song? I used to put it up when pulling orange con mobs until they were debuffed, but even that was a waste. That thing takes a concentration slot. Who cares if they get 1% more (spell) resists during the first 5s of the fight? Maybe the tank with taunts. Well guess what, Troubadours and tanks are not in the same group unless all dirges and coercers have a day off. I would have to use words that would certainly overload the swear filter to express my disappointment with these set bonuses. Especially the 7-piece one. The only worse itemization in the game is probably the cloak with 2% heal crit increase t hat can be worn by Troubadours (well at least that one gave me a good laugh). Single items have cool stats and resists. But there is no incentive to wear the set as such. </blockquote>3 Pieces: I actually do use Clara's Midnight Tempo because I went down the AGI line instead of the WIS line and I have been raiding EoF content. The WIS line is not the end all be all for troubadors. I have had clara's crit at 3000 damage so it is by no means fluff. They should probably double the bonus from 60 to 120 because a 2% bonus is not much for the best gear in the game. 7 Pieces: I almost always have dove song up for its' extra disruption. The mages like it and I like because it ups our dps at least as much as aria does and sometimes even more so. Adding +10 to dove song is actually a damm good bonus for me. </blockquote>There is no way that the dps you gain from the agility line compares with the crit chance bonus for the rest of your group. If you think it does, you don't parse and have some water in your head. Ask your group what 7.5% crits does for them. Dove song is mostly unnecessary in 95-99% of raids. A warlock's skill spell will more than make up for any miss chances you have. Even without any boosts to my casting skills I'm landing around 95% of my spells. There is no way that it's upping the groups dps even close to what you think it is.

Pogopuschel

04-25-2007, 03:34 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Uyaem@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote> ! 'nuff said EDIT: No, actually not enough. For those who don't know what these set bonusses actually are: 3 pieces - increases damage of Clara's Midnight Tempo by 60 What the fluff? There' already better stuff out there, called a "single piece of relic gear". Noone, repeat noone would be stupid enough to wear 3 relic set items for that! The only time you'd ever use this one is when a mob needs heavy debuffing, the damage part is irrelevant since (including getting stealthed) you cast 3 seconds for like what - 1200 damage? Yes yes, there's those with the AGI-line out there, and they have bump blahblah. We're talking about gear from raids for raiders. All raiding Troubs who ever want to acquire 3 pieces just cannot miss out on STR or WIS lines, so they do not have this luxury... 5 pieces - 6% spell crit chance increase Halfway decent, arguable if 6% is so much... generally I can live with that one, it is a nice and actual bonus. 7 pieces - Focus: Dove Song. Increases subjugation, ordinatio n etc of Dove Song by 10 Huh? You have to be kidding me. The bloody AoA-proc increase on the breastplate is ten times more worth than this. Seriously, who uses Dove Song? I used to put it up when pulling orange con mobs until they were debuffed, but even that was a waste. That thing takes a concentration slot. Who cares if they get 1% more (spell) resists during the first 5s of the fight? Maybe the tank with taunts. Well guess what, Troubadours and tanks are not in the same group unless all dirges and coercers have a day off. I would have to use words that would certainly overload the swear filter to express my disappointment with these set bonuses. Especially the 7-piece one. The only worse itemization in the game is probably the cloak with 2% heal crit increase t hat can be worn by Troubadours (well at least that one gave me a good laugh). Single items have cool stats and resists. But there is no incentive to wear the set as such. </blockquote>3 Pieces: I actually do use Clara's Midnight Tempo because I went down the AGI line instead of the WIS line and I have been raiding EoF content. The WIS line is not the end all be all for troubadors. I have had clara's crit at 3000 damage so it is by no means fluff. They should probably double the bonus from 60 to 120 because a 2% bonus is not much for the best gear in the game. 7 Pieces: I almost always have dove song up for its' extra disruption. The mages like it and I like because it ups our dps at least as much as aria does and sometimes even more so. Adding +10 to dove song is actually a damm good bonus for me. </blockquote> With the AGI line you can add a little bit to your personal DPS, but your group will lose big time. Since the new AA system where end abilities only cost 2 points, you can even make up for it by putting 8 points on Allegro. Dove Song will increase the chance to hit the mob not the ac tual damage (and if it increases the damage of a s ingle hit it is miniscule). On the last EH run I had an average hit chance of 98% on Eli's, 98.5% on shrill etc, and my casting-related skills are the lowest of all casters in my group. That leads me to the conclusion that Dove Song is rubbish. Also, remember that it's "diminishing returns" - if the caster already has ~400 in the skill, Dove's additional boost will do even less.

Tri

04-25-2007, 09:08 AM

Clara is maybe no fluff but it is a pain to use. Imagine trying to spam your abilities for MAX DPS ; you just don't have the time to use all of them, and the first one to go is Clara's given you need to use a 2 second cast stealth for it. EVEN if you have bump that is once in a minute ability while clara is on a 10 sec recast. The set is very poorly designed, in the end it adds less INT then AGI and STA. And the set effect sux. 6% in spell crit rate for 5 items.... you might as well go for the other items with + to spell crit. Grab the chest and you're done with it. See new thread.

Rast

04-25-2007, 09:49 AM

One thing I'd like to add on the +sub skill... Why? If you want that, then get a paladin with BL and you get a huge boost to basically any combat skill the group could need and then you can run what would be the far better buff and then you both are better off.I know as a Paladin who is often in the mage/troubie group, I would LOVE to have an additional 7.5% to my already 68% chance to crit.

vladsamier

04-25-2007, 03:55 PM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Uyaem@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote> ! 'nuff said EDIT: No, actually not enough. For those who don't know what these set bonusses actually are: 3 pieces - increases damage of Clara's Midnight Tempo by 60 What the fluff? There' already better stuff out there, called a "single piece of relic gear". Noone, repeat noone would be stupid enough to wear 3 relic set items for that! The only time you'd ever use this one is when a mob needs heavy debuffing, the damage part is irrelevant since (including getting stealthed) you cast 3 seconds for like what - 1200 damage? Yes yes, there's those with the AGI-line out there, and they have bump blahblah. We're talking about gear from raids for raiders. All raiding Troubs who ever want to acquire 3 pieces just cannot miss out on STR or WIS lines, so they do not have this luxury... 5 pieces - 6% spell crit chance increase Halfway decent, arguable if 6% is so much... generally I can live with that one, it is a nice and actual bonus. 7 pieces - Focus: Dove Song. Increases subjugation, ordinatio n etc of Dove Song by 10 Huh? You have to be kidding me. The bloody AoA-proc increase on the breastplate is ten times more worth than this. Seriously, who uses Dove Song? I used to put it up when pulling orange con mobs until they were debuffed, but even that was a waste. That thing takes a concentration slot. Who cares if they get 1% more (spell) resists during the first 5s of the fight? Maybe the tank with taunts. Well guess what, Troubadours and tanks are not in the same group unless all dirges and coercers have a day off. I would have to use words that would certainly overload the swear filter to express my disappointment with these set bonuses. Especially the 7-piece one. The only worse itemization in the game is probably the cloak with 2% heal crit increase t hat can be worn by Troubadours (well at least that one gave me a good laugh). Single items have cool stats and resists. But there is no incentive to wear the set as such. </blockquote>3 Pieces: I actually do use Clara's Midnight Tempo because I went down the AGI line instead of the WIS line and I have been raiding EoF content. The WIS line is not the end all be all for troubadors. I have had clara's crit at 3000 damage so it is by no means fluff. They should probably double the bonus from 60 to 120 because a 2% bonus is not much for the best gear in the game. 7 Pieces: I almost always have dove song up for its' extra disruption. The mages like it and I like because it ups our dps at least as much as aria does and sometimes even more so. Adding +10 to dove song is actually a damm good bonus for me. </blockquote>Man, I'd hate to be your group members... Going down the AGI line and ditching WIS for your own personal DPS shows that you should be playing something that was not meant to be a buffing class. As far as the extra disruption from dove song being better then Aria, you're wrong. How could you even compare +28 disruption being better then a 45% chance to proc ~300-500 damage? After the mob is debuffed in each said resistance, you almost never get resist...

vladsamier

04-26-2007, 05:54 PM

I actually saw the buffs he was running last night... I literally LOL'ed. Self-buff, Alin's, Bria's, Balletic, and Dove Song. Apparently Aria sucks so much that Balletic Avoidance is a better buff to run then it. Heck, even Dove Song is better then it!

Blakeavon

04-27-2007, 11:36 AM

Slamdar@Oasis wrote:<blockquote>Man, I'd hate to be your group members... Going down the AGI line and ditching WIS for your own personal DPS shows that you should be playing something that was not meant to be a buffing class. </blockquote>huh??! you do know the reason behind the AA system? to allow people to custom their own character to suit what they see fit. you do know that you play a game in which many play styles, sole, small group, group, raid? id be more concerned having someone like you in my group in which you are too busy bean-counting every dps score... if you are sorry enough to think you are only a buff bot you must live an ever dull time in a group. we are way more than buff bots, and RARELY in my groups is that how im thought of! i personally love my troub which i have been playing since the game came out, i have max the agility line (for my own selflessness apparently) and max the WIS line (YAY me i think of others) *rolls eyes* i feel sorry who think like tank=meatshield healer= ONLY healing bards=buff bots *yawn* thats a boring land!

ForgottenFoundling

04-27-2007, 06:35 PM

Prideaux@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Slamdar@Oasis wrote: <blockquote>Man, I'd hate to be your group members... Going down the AGI line and ditching WIS for your own personal DPS shows that you should be playing something that was not meant to be a buffing class. </blockquote>huh??! you do know the reason behind the AA system? to allow people to custom their own character to suit what they see fit. you do know that you play a game in which many play styles, sole, small group, group, raid? id be more concerned having someone like you in my group in which you are too busy bean-counting every dps score... if you are sorry enough to think you are only a buff bot you must live an ever dull time in a group. we are way more than buff bots, and RARELY in my groups is that how im thought of! i personally love my troub which i have been playing since the game came out, i have max the agility line (for my own selflessness apparently) and max the WIS line (YAY me i think of others) *rolls eyes* i feel sorry who think like tank=meatshield healer= ONLY healing bards=buff bots *yawn* thats a boring land! </blockquote> Like it or not, high end raiding is a Min/Max game. If you choose to follow other paths other than the min/max ones and your character's primary role is utility, then you hurt the raid for your own enjoyment. If this is fine for your guild (and your guildmates know), then yay. If your guild is able to complete all content efficiently, then yay. If neither of these apply, then boo on you.What bugs me are people that choose to build their character's inefficiently and as a result, my group/raid is therefore unable to complete content.

Mildavyn

04-28-2007, 05:41 AM

I agree with Blakeavon. This is MY character, I spent the time levelling it, I spent the time getting those AAs. It is MY choice where i spend those AAs and if people don't like it, they're quite welcome to make their own bloody bard.I have what looks like the same AA-setup as Blake and I've never had anyone in my groups complain for the lack of Bladedance. If and when my guild leaders want me to spec STR/WIS, we can talk about it, but like i said before, this is my toon and it's my choice. You dont have to maximise everything for raiding, there are other ways to play your character. The AAs are choices you get to make to customise and enhance your character. Sony explicitly stated that they were trying to avoid getting to the point where it was REQUIRED that you have x AAs before you would be accepted into a guild. If i am required to have my AAs in STR/WIS to be in my guild, then im sure theree are other guilds who want a Troub who knows what he's doing.

TerabithianWhisperwi

05-01-2007, 06:39 PM

"what bugs me are people that choose to build their characters inefficiently, and as a result, my group/raid is therefore unable to complete content."Well then ForgottenFoundling, it seems to me that if this is true, your group/raid is suffering from poor leadership, and not from the woes of ineffeciency.Good leadership completes content with what they've been handed. Conquer the material, don't let the material dictate your need.That being said...I've gone the INT line, and I look forward to teaching my groups/raids how exactly HO's work at the group/raid level, coordinating them to provide the HO's we need at the time we need them. I'll be a conductor of sorts, setting aside different players to satisfy various steps at my beck and call.So far, I've met nothing but cynical skepticism, but after a 5-minute lesson, and practice session, people are absolutely astounded at the things I can help make happen. Any raid/group arrogant enough to give me some str/wis line of crap deserves to be the weak cookie-cutter opertation it will inevitably end up being. It took me months to learn group/raid HO's, and how to achieve the difficult ones with a minimal effort, but it was worth the time.My point is, it is NOT YOUR PLACE to judge the merits of other people's choices (or perhaps "mistakes" in your view) but to rather make their choices work for your raid/group. Bad players are bad players, no question about it, but dissing a toon because they chose an AA path that is outside your group/raid comfort zone is simply short-sighted.So yeah, get better leadership, FTW, and perhaps you'll complete content successfully.

ForgottenFoundling

05-01-2007, 11:07 PM

My guild completes content fine. But I know that the very tough encounters would be significantly more difficult than they already are if the entire raid didn't have a toon with bladedance in each group. Wis line DKTM will improve the rest of the group far more than any other personal line will, those are the facts.You may believe yourself to be the best conductor there is, but if someone doesn't want to listen to you (for their own playstyle, enjoyment, whatever) your group/raid will suffer.

TerabithianWhisperwi

05-02-2007, 07:00 AM

I'm sorry. You're wrong.Wis line does not, in fact, improve the rest of the group far more than any other personal line will. Again, this is demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of what HO's can do for you. INT line in the hands of someone who knows HO's can completely rock your world, and that IS a fact.There are many many other ways to get the same effect that the bladedance mastery is giving your groups.But, unless you're willing to learn and explore these other options, you'll be limited to repeating the techniques you've already learned over and over. This is fine, I guess, but I'd personally rather grow as a player, and always set the bar higher. *shrug*

Antryg Mistrose

05-02-2007, 11:34 AM

Interesting discussion on set armour I say wot? There are 3 ways I know of to avoid AoEs. Bladedance is by far the best of them. There are EoF raids your guild will not be able to do unless you have bladedance or one of its lesser equivalents in every group. The second best AoE immunity requires a level 50 guild - Signets of Etheral Form, which are lore, and so can only be used once per raid. The final method is I think a tinker ability with a short range and duration. As for taking Int over Wis, that is interesting. 7.5% additonal crits can be measured. HOs is a lot more fuzzy. I haven't actually thought about them since the level cap was 50 to be honest. I have read that they don't scale well. Like it or not, SoE did not manage to make the lines equal - just look at some of the rubbish end abilities in the EoF AA. So for raiding there is at least one required line, and that is Bladedance. Anything else, and you should not be invited back.

TerabithianWhisperwi

05-02-2007, 04:28 PM

well, to be honest, I went both the int and the wis trees. I wouldn't by any means recommend that all bards in a given raid take the int tree. dear god no. sure you'd want some STR trees, and you'd want some WIS trees. My point is, I have alot to offer to a group/raid situation with my understanding and utilization of HO's, and I'd be pretty darned ticked off if I was dismissed out of hand like that, and I think that leadership of raids/groups need to understand what flavors are available out there, and how best to use them.

SpiralDown

05-02-2007, 07:18 PM

I agree, +60 dmg to a mostly unused CA is lame, the 6% crit chance is too low, and dove song doesn't need boosting. Dove Song already has an AA to boost it and it doesn't need help as is. Every so often it helps and when I do use it, the skill mod it has normally is enough. I do like the pants though, and most of the other peices, but every class has a peice or two that isn't as "good." Still though, I wouldn't turn any of them down <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As for AOE immunity... The tinker one doesn't work on epics. Also, other classes have AAs that give AOE immune, unless the list I'm using is out of date or something. Druids get one at the end of their agi line, but it stuns them. Clerics get one at the end of their agi line, but its single target. Rouges get one at the end of their int line, but its self target and FDs them. Swashies get one at the end of an EoF line, but its only for 13secs. Assassins get one at the end of an EoF line, but its self target and is only in effect while they are also stealthed. Bards do have the best one, but there are other options <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And AAs... For raiding Str/Wis is the best way to go, not the only way, but when you're getting into the hardest zones you need to go with the best. Adding 7% crit chance to everything a group of 6 can do really adds up, plus the 7% increase in casting speed is pretty ok and I personally love the run speed boost, hehe. Agi/Sta are good lines for soloing and grouping. Int is ok, but it isn't like you need it to use HOs, you still get the benefits without the int line. Also, also every bard should probably go with Str/Wis on the higher level raids, because a bard is hard to come by and I rarely see more than 1 dirge and 1 troub even avaliable any given day. Bards are a rare breed these days.

Antryg Mistrose

05-02-2007, 10:14 PM

On AoE immunity - yep my mistake. The 3rd I was thinking of is the swashie one (not tinker) - its drawbacks are a lot smaller range and duration, so you need to have the AoE timers exactly right (traumatic swipe anyone?) to use it successfully. I think its down a popular AA line though, as a couple of guildmates have it. The cleric one I'm aware of - have it myself, like you say though, its single (within group) target only, but its also at the end of an AA line that most clerics don't take. About set armour - some of it is great - The Templar one for example has additional procs of their reactive heal, the SK has +20 defence for the 3 set bonus. Dirge has a CoB upgrade. Troubadors just don't seem to be well understood as a class by SoE and that is reflected in the class armour

Magnethjelmen2

05-07-2007, 07:19 AM

Antryg Mistrose wrote: <blockquote> Dirge has a CoB upgrade. Troubadors just don't seem to be well understood as a class by SoE and that is reflected in the class armour </blockquote> Yes an troub gets a simlair upgrade for their PotM. CoB = melee buff, PotM = caster buff. Not a big difference in aa there.

aelder~

05-07-2007, 12:50 PM

<cite>Magnethjelmen2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Antryg Mistrose wrote: <blockquote> Dirge has a CoB upgrade. Troubadors just don't seem to be well understood as a class by SoE and that is reflected in the class armour </blockquote> Yes an troub gets a simlair upgrade for their PotM. CoB = melee buff, PotM = caster buff. Not a big difference in aa there. </blockquote> But our Armor Set does not have an upgrade to PotM (e.g., reduction in recast time), which I believe the dirge set does for CoB.I wish we could apply the legendary reward onto the fabled set. Much rather have the crit chance and increased mental damage to all songs...

aelder~

05-08-2007, 08:51 PM

<cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote>"what bugs me are people that choose to build their characters inefficiently, and as a result, my group/raid is therefore unable to complete content."Well then ForgottenFoundling, it seems to me that if this is true, your group/raid is suffering from poor leadership, and not from the woes of ineffeciency.Good leadership completes content with what they've been handed. Conquer the material, don't let the material dictate your need.That being said...I've gone the INT line, and I look forward to teaching my groups/raids how exactly HO's work at the group/raid level, coordinating them to provide the HO's we need at the time we need them. I'll be a conductor of sorts, setting aside different players to satisfy various steps at my beck and call.So far, I've met nothing but cynical skepticism, but after a 5-minute lesson, and practice session, people are absolutely astounded at the things I can help make happen. Any raid/group arrogant enough to give me some str/wis line of crap deserves to be the weak cookie-cutter opertation it will inevitably end up being. It took me months to learn group/raid HO's, and how to achieve the difficult ones with a minimal effort, but it was worth the time....Wis line does not, in fact, improve the rest of the group far more than any other personal line will. Again, this is demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of what HO's can do for you. INT line in the hands of someone who knows HO's can completely rock your world, and that IS a fact.</blockquote>I have never experimented with the INT line so don't really understand Coin Toss. I gather from the description that it (a) shifts the HO to start it over as new one, perhaps (or definitely?) changing it from common to rare or uber, and (b) does the next relevant scout step in the new HO.(1) Does it definitely shift the HO to a different one?(2) Does it shift an HO even if another player has already done one of the abilities in a chain?If neither (1) nor (2) are true, then any bard could achieve the same results without terribly much effort.As for HOs, there are a few I try to get, e.g.:<ul><li>Shifting Ringing Blow to Swindler's Luck or Bravo's Dance</li><li>Priest's from piety to Divine Trinity for big power regen), </li></ul>But if you have put alot of thought into it, please share the ones we should most focus on shifting.Thanks,

Rufio

05-13-2007, 10:36 PM

Cookie cutters of the world unite, I bet there are some troubs on here who sadly enough came straight to the forums and gobbled up the STR/WIS preachings of everyone else without digesting it first. STR/WIS lines are not bad, but they are not the only lines that complement each other if you take the time to step out of the STR/WIS haze that you're in. I am not a raider. This is just my personal play style, I like to play to make my group the most effective it can be, which doesn't require me raising my STR/STA stats which the str line provides. Sure the crits are great, but base STR and STR/STA are not the bards primary stats. If anything AGI and INT are and you can't complain because you know I am right. AGI = 75% power, INT = 25% power. AGI = avoidance/ chance to hit, INT = spell dmg. That is in simple terms of how I understand and have tested it to work. Now we know the troub 101. WIS/INT lines FTW. Wisdom 4-4-8-8-2 As you STR/WIS guys know gives you the lovely skill of DKtM = 7.5% crits, Improved casting speed for group, in combat run speed (worthless on PvE) and run speed out of combat which stacks with your own (fun, useful but for raiders who like to be l33t l00t3r$ who pwn, not the most benefitial) Note tot he reader: this is just a group/trio/duo set up. It may work in a raid if you primary job is to enhance your casters and you are fighting red epic x 4 who have high resists. Now the int line which I personally love. The int line has a great many features and because I don't find the last feature the most useful I used the 2 points to bolster the int line and finish off the run speed buff int he wisdom line. For INT I went 4-4-8-7, opting to max the ordination, subjugation, disruption, agression and +Focus line to 57%. Which effectively gives the caster not just mages, but anyone using combat spells....which means everyone (plus aggression is the tanks taunt) an effective lvl over 5 lvls above their normal lvl. Don't tell me that is a bad thing. Then you my ask why I spec'd haste, well because I have a 7.5% chance to proc, I cast faster by another 7-12% which means I can go through all my songs like shriek etc within about 5 seconds and I am left with my combat arts which have 7.5% to crit. Now with improved haste going I do more hits, and more hits equates to more chances to proc that 7.5%. More solo dmg for me, a ton more dmg for the casters int he group and more speed for any melee that is playing whether it is DPS or tank, tank hits faster = higher aggro. That is my thinking behind the INT/WIS line for my troub, feel free to nitpick but my groups are well balanced and burn through stuff very very fast. As for what buffs I have up. Def, haste, AGI/int self buff, DKtM, Caster speed buff, Ordination buff, run speed buff, and I think I am missing one but I am at work so CBF looking it up.

aelder~

05-14-2007, 01:58 AM

Rufio@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote>Cookie cutters of the world unite, I bet there are some troubs on here who sadly enough came straight to the forums and gobbled up the STR/WIS preachings of everyone else without digesting it first... </blockquote>Well, sadly, there aren't so many troubs coming to the forums at all; least played class and therefore least posted board FTL.As for us "cookie cutters", I think your AA set up is fine for grouping--congratulations. Indeed, any AA set up is, so long as you enjoy it. /shrugThe population of cookie cutters are comprised of level 70 raiding bards. And the likelihood of a bard surviving to 70, still enjoying raiding, continuing to play, bothering to post, AND blithely respec'ing to STR and WIS b/c the cookie cutters sez so? I suspect chances of that are less than troubadors getting the EoF fabled set (recall, the OP) re-tuned to something useful (e.g., reduced PotM timer; increased Eli's damage; and +50 mental damage to songs). STR + WIS just happens to be a useful combination in EoF raids. As has been said early and often, if you are lower level, grouping, soloing, and/or strictly raiding KoS, rock on.My question remains, INT experimenters and nay-sayers, what exactly does Coin Toss do please? Even tho you dont advocate Coin Toss, Rufio, perhaps you could shed some light on it as well.Thanks,

SpiralDown

05-14-2007, 03:38 AM

Rufio@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote>Cookie cutters of the world unite, I bet there are some troubs on here who sadly enough came straight to the forums and gobbled up the STR/WIS preachings of everyone else without digesting it first. STR/WIS lines are not bad, but they are not the only lines that complement each other if you take the time to step out of the STR/WIS haze that you're in. I am not a raider. This is just my personal play style, I like to play to make my group the most effective it can be, which doesn't require me raising my STR/STA stats which the str line provides. Sure the crits are great, but base STR and STR/STA are not the bards primary stats. If anything AGI and INT are and you can't complain because you know I am right. AGI = 75% power, INT = 25% power. AGI = avoidance/ chance to hit, INT = spell dmg. That is in simple terms of how I understand and have tested it to work. Now we know the troub 101. WIS/INT lines FTW. Wisdom 4-4-8-8-2 As you STR/WIS guys know gives you the lovely skill of DKtM = 7.5% crits, Improved casting speed for group, in combat run speed (worthless on PvE) and run speed out of combat which stacks with your own (fun, useful but for raiders who like to be l33t l00t3r$ who pwn, not the most benefitial) Note tot he reader: this is just a group/trio/duo set up. It may work in a raid if you primary job is to enhance your casters and you are fighting red epic x 4 who have high resists. Now the int line which I personally love. The int line has a great many features and because I don't find the last feature the most useful I used the 2 points to bolster the int line and finish off the run speed buff int he wisdom line. For INT I went 4-4-8-7, opting to max the ordination, subjugation, disruption, agression and +Focus line to 57%. Which effectively gives the caster not just mages, but anyone using combat spells....which means everyone (plus aggression is the tanks taunt) an effective lvl over 5 lvls above their normal lvl. Don't tell me that is a bad thing. Then you my ask why I spec'd haste, well because I have a 7.5% chance to proc, I cast faster by another 7-12% which means I can go through all my songs like shriek etc within about 5 seconds and I am left with my combat arts which have 7.5% to crit. Now with improved haste going I do more hits, and more hits equates to more chances to proc that 7.5%. More solo dmg for me, a ton more dmg for the casters int he group and more speed for any melee that is playing whether it is DPS or tank, tank hits faster = higher aggro. That is my thinking behind the INT/WIS line for my troub, feel free to nitpick but my groups are well balanced and burn through stuff very very fast. As for what buffs I have up. Def, haste, AGI/int self buff, DKtM, Caster speed buff, Ordination buff, run speed buff, and I think I am missing one but I am at work so CBF looking it up. </blockquote> It isn't cookie cutter, its the most useful for raiding. That said, str is useless if you don't raid. All the lines are actually good and suit different needs. Str/wis suits the needs of a raider. If you were raiding with a set up besides str/wis I'd call your choices into question. I'd also call into question someone who's soloing mostly with str/wis lines, cause neither of them are so good for soloing. Also, I really like the run buff because I can't afford a horse and even when I had the carpet I'd forget to use it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I would take a look at your choice of buffs though... if ya want to burn through stuff in a group even faster go str/sta, haste, spell proc, pwr regen and hate reducer. In a mixed group all those buffs will help dps more than any other and normally a troub shouldn't worry about the survivablity of the tank, so no defensive buffs, rather we do help the tank hold aggro. Self buff is really only for solo, duo or certain trios.Back to the armor... looking again at the peices, I don't think I will even want the hat. Rather have Nightcord, which is kinda lame, and a number of other caps. Then get the bracers or gloves to have enough for the crit chances. Its extremely dumb that the full set bonus is a waste and its something of a challenge to find 5 peices that I'd really want...

Tri

05-14-2007, 06:01 PM

this debate would ve deserved another thread... <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> anyway this is what i gathered from my testing when i went for the INT line a few months ago : - coin toss will shift the HO as if it was any other coin icon spell, no double shifting here. - if after opening a HO you cast coin toss you will activate the effect, both steps will be met by the spell BUT if you / anyone else casts ANYTHING before the HO ends it will only activate the first step. So the only benefit from coin toss is that the HO will be at max level, for example swindler's luck will give 26 to CSP, usually you can only get 25. This will allow to refresh the HO BUFF, even when using lower level/quality spells to activate them. Then again you would be very lucky to get those rare HOs more than once every 6 minutes, and i didn't do some extensive testing but i didn't get to feel Coin Toss changed the appearance of those. sorry if this isn't really clear, hopefully someone will translate this in more understandable english <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />