Wtb more raids/zones/ect. (long, in-depth read)

[Aeg]

<p>Every mmo requires something new and exciting every so often to keep the players interested. with no new expansion inc in at least 6 months, i feel like the overall interest in this game could be slowly decaying.</p><p>wht i request is simple; more content. it is very easy to go from the bottom of the food chain to near the top in a couple months. if you are a hardcore player like me from eq1. you are used to painstakingly long quests and raids as well as access quests, uncapped amounts of AAs and just generally always having SOMETHING TO DO. quests and raids which would be in the end, fun as heck to gain access too and become even more fun to raid and do. rewards were class defining and made a significant impact. epic quests (which i heard the eq2 staff refuses to make individually) were just one example of why everquest 1 had dominating the mmo scene for years and year, and even today maintains a respectable level of dedicated gamers who after all these years STILL have stuff to do to continue to improve their characters.</p><p>in my opinion what this game lacks is a focus on the hardcore and because of that has a much wasted effort on quick levels from 1 to 60. the majority of players on servers are all level 70 and have completed 95% of the T7 content. </p><p>EoF was in my opinion, a horrible expansion for T7 players. the expansion catered heavily to low level characters leveling up. and when they finally hit T7, all of the raid zones are handed to them with no access quests required, this alone means there is no timesink dedicated to accessing these dungeons, no level of raid progression and nothing new and exciting to look forward to for all our hard work. </p><p>aside from lack of raid instances, there is a general lack of zones overall. KOS has only 3 overland zones, and copy and pasted map layouts for contested zones, raids and small instances alike. while EoF has a bigger differance between these, it still has a high level of 'the same old theme', especially when it comes to a zone like emerald halls to lesser fay and castle mistmoore to mistmoore inner sanctum. there are 5ish overland zones in EoF, 3 of which no T7 player has any business in other than as a zone to ran across to get to one that is.</p><p>i personally would like to see everquest become the top mmo, i enjoy playing the game very much and it has more to offer me than vanguard or world of warcraft. but for the game to truly live up to the 'ever' part of the title, more needs to be done to expand upon the highest point in content.</p><p>if you put it out, people will buy it. if people buy it, more people will play it. quite literally, if you build it, they will come.</p><p>To me as a player overviewing sony as a business, it only makes sense to expand, and you would be surprised what a little content would do to spark new interest in this game and give people a better reason to stay here rather than leave.</p><p>Vindikai Frostwrath 70 Wizard,</p><p>Ammonia Frostwrath 70 Paladin.</p>

[tass]

anyone made it through emerald halls to the end yet?

[Gungo]

<p>Psst the last producer letter said they are on the 9+ month expansion table now and whiel they have no adv pack planned they are focusing on expanding the FREE live update team and adding in MORE FREE live content. They haven't released anythign yet. Even though i think they should. But they are working on a few more high end and low end zones. </p><p>They reason they went to 9 month table as to not rush out content like DoF or even KoS. So more polish and less content. I think EoF had a clear progression and if it was tuned correctly it would of taken a bit longer problem was the progression in difficulty was mislaid and resulted in certain zones being eaiser then intended. basically EH should of been cleared before MMIS. Problem is 2 different develoeprs deisgned each zone. MMIS was intended so that only top dps raid guilds could clear it but with the help of items obtained in EH (stakes). That really didn't go as planned. the bump in Hp's helped, but once again wasn't a real factor requiring the stakes in EH. </p><p>Don't forget EoF wasn't a complete T7 expansion is was an addon to KOS. The next expansion should be a complete T8 expansion. i hope. This will include 10 levels, and the upgrading of spells and items possibly AA's. I don't think eq2 will ever be an eq1 style raid game. Nor was it ever intended to be. </p>

[interstellarmatter]

<p>Unrest was a t7 zone.  Granted that it was suppose to be released with EoF.</p><p>I don't think that you will see more raid progression zones till the next expansion.  They usually take more than just designing the zone.  If they aren't releasing a new tier of equipment or AAs with a raid zone, it's just the same thing as before with different art work.</p><p>What you will see till the next expansion is a trickle of new quests, group zones and game features.  </p><p>/shrug  I know that it can seem pretty dry if you have done most of the content.  My advice is to keep two MMO games active so you don't get bored with one.  At least, that's what I do <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gungo]

Many beleive the new thex castle zone is a raid zone. Since it is part of the Mayong story line. The swords of desitny quest line and retrieving the claymore really has a jump between stuff right now that hasn't been cleared yet.

[The_Real_Ohno]

Would of been nice to be finished and gone live when EoF did though.  Sword of Destiny questline kind of shocked me that it wasent aswell.

[Ravaan]

<p>honestly i'd like to see more things to do than just raid. It seems to me that if you are not in a raiding guild or don't want to raid you might as well quit EQ2 once you hit 70.</p><p>I never had this feeling in SWG, I would log in and always have something to do. where as in EQ2 I log in check the broker or raid ... thats it.</p><p>what i would like to see is more ...</p><p>Instanced zones for all levels maybe instanced quests ala LDoN or City of Heroes story arcs. maybe add a optional Factional PVP system ... based on the 3 courts of DoF or something (not good vs evil). Add a multiclassing system to add more diversity to our character classes.</p><p>things of that nature. </p>

[Vorlak]

<p>/shrug, i agree all i do in eq2 is login check broker and raid.</p><p>I do the instances for a few runs, (unrest/cov/oob) but after time and same ol crap drops i cannot sale or use then when the item drops i would have used i already have a raid item is now better.</p><p>I would like a liner type of a progressional world where you fight thru to get to the next world, but along the way you get pulled off to do side quest that unlock the next world for your character (yes flagged based, but you should be able to travel with your friends into area's your not flagged).</p><p>so you split up the lore based on solo/heroic/epic and then you flag the progressional line as easy/medium/hard based on what the player chooses at the begining of the quest. When you fight thru hard you get better gear then easy and maybe specail drops showing that you have indeed bested the zone on hard.</p><p>so it would be Town -> Overworld1 -> dungon1a, dungon1b, dungon1c -> dungon2a dungon3a -> completing those zones would allow you to progress to the next Overworld and open up a whole other set of quests to complete and better items to obtain. There should be 1 quest that follows the whole timeline and at the end you are rewarded for finishing the line.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>There is a ton of instance T7 content. Probelm is there is very little repeatable content. At least raiding provides long reuse zones with relatively low reward yields thus making it repeatable. 2 items per named w tons of trash abotu 1-5 hours per raid with about 4-8 named per zone and 27item slots x 24+ people equals alot of repeatable content. </p><p>non raid content instances includes acacedism COV OOB Unrest Den blackscale sepchular Halls of fate Nest Vaults Castle Everling (part 3) Nizara T7 zones include SoS PoA loping plains Lfay MMC CMM kaladim Barren sky Bonemire Tenebrous tangle Fallen city </p><p>So thier is plenty of T7 content. </p>

[ZUES]

<p>Give me some life experience examples where you can do things more successfully solo than you could with more than one? Will you do better in business? No. You can grow but there becomes a point in which you HAVE to share the load. By not doing so, you choose to be unsuccessful. It becomes personal choice. I can think of a million acronyms and examples to use but the fact is: if you want to develop further in anything in life, you need more than just yourself. This develops relationships, friendships and community. People working together with a common goal. You can only solo so far. Welcome to life!</p><p>Want more content? Find a raid guild that suits your needs. Many will hit targets based on who is online. Some make their members help each other thru quests if some members cant meet certain zone reqs. Some are better than others. But the fact is there is still plenty of content. It's how you get to that content is entirely up to you. </p><p>Roll a fury..... their fun.</p>

[Dasein]

"Give me some life experience examples where you can do things more successfully solo than you could with more than one?" Why should a game mimic 'real life'? The developers get to create the rules for the EQ2 world, and those rules do not necessarily need to be the same ones we live by. If that means soloing yields better rewards, so be it. Of course, in 'real life', there are no fixed mechanics for things like groups and raids. While one might socialize, fundamentally, everything you do is done by yourself. 

[Novusod]

I think the reason some in T7 are bored is that the main EoF T7  dungeon CMM was just too hard for your average non-raid geared group.  It is a huge zone full of content but most groups will never make it past the opening mobs hence it is wasted content. Nobody want to go there because they are just going to end up with a giant repair bill. There is no reason why CMM has to be many times more difficult than Unrest. The same thing applies to the raiding set who can't clear Emerald Halls. The EoF T7 zones were just too over the top in difficulty. I think a good nerfing is in order.

[mkd1200]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why should a game mimic 'real life'? The developers get to create the rules for the EQ2 world, and those rules do not necessarily need to be the same ones we live by. If that means soloing yields better rewards, so be it. </blockquote> btw this game is a MMORPG.  go play oblivion

[Mawie]

<cite>mkd1200 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why should a game mimic 'real life'? The developers get to create the rules for the EQ2 world, and those rules do not necessarily need to be the same ones we live by. If that means soloing yields better rewards, so be it. </blockquote> btw this game is a MMORPG.  go play oblivion</blockquote> But it isn't for the player base to dictate who does what and with whom and when and how many. I don't see why you needed to be so rude to the other poster.

[Dasein]

"btw this game is a MMORPG.  go play oblivion" Socialization can take many forms beyond grouping. however, at best, most MMOs these days are really group or raid games played in parallel. There is little sense of belonging to any larger social enterprise. If this is to be a true MMO, give us more events like the Spire construction, not more raids. DAoC's RvR system was very much what an MMO should aspire to - in DAoC there would be fights between hundreds of people. Sieges could last hours, with people coming and going. Sure, getting in a group was useful, but the focus was on the realm, not simply the group. The level of socialization and social organization, however, is what set DAoC apart from most other games, and compared to that, taking 24 people into an instance hardly makes for an MMO. however, not all these games necessarily need to be MMOs. I do not thing many of those who claim this is an MMORPG really want that. What they're looking for is more of a parallel game, where they can take their group or raid into a zone and have it to themselves. This is fine and fun, and i rather enjoy it myself, but I do not have any pretensions about this being some sacred form of gameplay. If people want to solo, good, let them. I do not want game design limited by imaginary contraints imposed by the genre.

[TheSource123]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the reason some in T7 are bored is that the main EoF T7  dungeon CMM was just too hard for your average non-raid geared group.  It is a huge zone full of content but most groups will never make it past the opening mobs hence it is wasted content. Nobody want to go there because they are just going to end up with a giant repair bill. There is no reason why CMM has to be many times more difficult than Unrest. The same thing applies to the raiding set who can't clear Emerald Halls. The EoF T7 zones were just too over the top in difficulty. I think a good nerfing is in order. </blockquote>I strongly disagree w/ this. Probably the worst thing about this game as of now if the inherent lack of any real difficulty outside of raid zones. And said raid zones mostly have to do with how your raid is geared up. I love fighting long, intense, epic, and challenging battles because you feel extremely rewarded at the end regardless of whether or not anything dropped. Raids should depend more on tactics than they should depend on gear. Of all the things WoW got wrong they got this one thing right, anyone in decent gear could hop into a raid any survive, and assist the raid. Despite being extremely repetitive and boring, the raids in WoW required at least SOME coordination, rather than just mindless bashing. The obvious downside of this is how boring and repetitive the raids got after you "figured out" how to do it. The thing I think this game could benefit from the MOST is more complex AI patterns, or a more complex aggro system. You rarely get those moments in the raid where people are dropping like flies, aggro is flying around, and the MT is struggling to get it back. All the while everyone tries their best, works together, and digs themselves out of a hole. You either kill the mob easily or die because you're not geared well enough. That's what I miss the most, tbh. Without the possibility of defeat victory becomes meaningless.

[KnightOfTheWo]

Already started taking that advice, it helps. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I've found that it's not so much that EQ2 lacks content for me, it's just that after 2 years and hundreds or thousands of hours I needed to explore other lands for a while. Like interstellar though, that is just me. <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> interstellarmatter wrote: <blockquote><p>Unrest was a t7 zone.  Granted that it was suppose to be released with EoF.</p><p>I don't think that you will see more raid progression zones till the next expansion.  They usually take more than just designing the zone.  If they aren't releasing a new tier of equipment or AAs with a raid zone, it's just the same thing as before with different art work.</p><p>What you will see till the next expansion is a trickle of new quests, group zones and game features.  </p> <p><b>/shrug  I know that it can seem pretty dry if you have done most of the content.  My advice is to keep two MMO games active so you don't get bored with one.  At least, that's what I do</b> <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> </blockquote>

[tass]

I dont know usually reg zones like re rv rov sh pf the roost, silent city, and every other grp instance that I have when in and killed everything over and over is just boring. Its ok once or twice but then its boring. The places that make it interesting are places like castle mistmore where the mobs really put u to the test. But even then those zones get boring after u do em long enough. They need to make some sort of high end battling thing thats status is determined in real time. Maybe something that was between other players or had npc's that changed  in different routines and positions as well as requirements to beat the content.

[Rahatmattata]

<cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Give me some life experience examples where you can do things more successfully solo than you could with more than one?</p></blockquote><p> Taking a dump.</p>

[Skylher]

<p>the rift quest line is something like you say. start out and can solo,, then progresses into nizara onward to an instance, ending up with a raid for chel'drak. </p><p>I would like to see more solo content (not this bs with SoD to find a zillion statues either) that all classes can complete solo. healers/chanters don't solo very well.  Maybe more things like splitpaw or the solo part of MoA. Something you can do when you cant find a good group. </p><p>It would be nice to do some content that just isnt more time sink then anything (speak as a dragon and the statues are just time sinks imho) Make it hard, make you work for it,, just dont make it a fed ex type deal</p>

[Aeg]

<p>this isnt a debate whether or not we need more solo content in T7. this is a request for more content overall in T7. if anyone have played everquest 1's expansions, they know how long and indepth they can be. 2 of them come to mind for me and they are planes of power and omens of war. both games allowed the player and his raid force to slowly unlock other bits of the game by requiring prerequisites and flags, this slow feed into new and exciting content is what drove people to continue to play everquest 1 for years. the only real zone which requires flags at all now is deathtoll, and while i am glad a quest like this exists in game, i would be more happy if a massively epic quest such as access to plane of time was introduced. the whole layout of planes of power was exciting and the storyline was entriging. loot quality progressed from lower in quality to the previous expansion to extraordinary gear which would still be used many expansions down the line. this 'access quest progression' as well as 'raid force equiping progression' ment countless hours of questing, raiding and exploring, giving multiple purpose to the game to not only keep T7 people busy, but to allow them to stay busy until a new expansion came out.</p><p>everquest 1 maintained a loyal fanbase for the longest time, it was addicting in such a way which would enthrall the player and keep him or her playing with a game for many, many years.</p><p>this is what i want out of everquest 2.</p>

[Xynok]

<cite>Aegiz wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>-snip- ...planes of power and omens of war. both games allowed the player and his raid force to slowly unlock other bits of the game by requiring prerequisites and flags, this slow feed into new and exciting content is what drove people to continue to play everquest 1 for years. the whole layout of planes of power was exciting and the storyline was entriging. loot quality progressed from lower in quality to the previous expansion to extraordinary gear which would still be used many expansions down the line. this 'access quest progression' as well as 'raid force equiping progression' ment countless hours of questing, raiding and exploring...everquest 1 maintained a loyal fanbase for the longest time, it was addicting in such a way which would enthrall the player and keep him or her playing with a game for many, many years. -snip-</p></blockquote><p>I'm not going to argue there needs to be more higher level content, nor am I going to dismiss your desired style of play.  However, I am going to tell you that the EQ1 expansions, and all its ilk are exactly why I quit playing that game.  Indeed, EQ2 was chock full of the stuff you describe as early as Level 20 when it first released; they finally did away with the type of stuff, and now I've been playing again for a year and consider it the best MMO available.  At its release, I dubbed it the worst game ever made in any genre, due largely in part to the very type of content you're so fond of.</p><p>My point is, ultimately, to each their own.  However, I played EQ1 from beta until PoP, and quit shortly after its release.  In other words, I had played for years, and probably would have continued playing if they wouldn't have designed the content in the way you describe.  Likewise, I plan to play EQ2 for many years to come, but if the end-game is even remotely the way you want it, I'll quit pretty much immediately.</p>

[Aeg]

<p>there isnt a 2 way street, you either stay soft and have limited and easy content available to everyone which people become bored of quickly or you have content which can be continually unlocked. planes of power had access quests in raid, many of them. you needed a good raiding guild to access the top tiers of progression, however if you wanted to experience the bulk of the game, you would need to only go the groupable and soloable access quests to reach the non-raid zones.</p><p>mmos will always be split between the raiders and the casual, but why cant we have both worlds? if you would quit because there is more content available to those who want it, then i would call you foolish.</p><p>there is only so much this game offers right now. it is too easy for people to access all of the game, the raiding parts are very difficult because they have to be to keep people away from completing them so they dont run out of things to do. if raids required real strategy and there was many of them, a funner game would be the result, instead, you would have 10 differant instances of something like unrest and be perfectly content after completing them all.</p><p>who knows what makes the game fun for the casual man, i certainly dont. the only feeling of adventure i still get from an MMO is unlocking a new zone to explore, without flagging, i recieve a huge doze of fun and then it gets lamer and lamer as weeks go by. you only experience that true sense of adventure when you first level up, at end game, you either play 2 hours a week, quit, or start raiding.</p>

[Xynok]

<p>I'm all for what you're wanting, as long as that isn't the only option for progression.  I personally like single group content, as I find it far more heroic for a single group to accomplish something difficult than I do for 6 of them.  Raids are insanely difficult, primarily because of the number of players to manage; I'm not looking for this type of game, and it is the exact reason I left WoW and EQ1.</p><p>I feel zones like Unrest, and content like Lost Dungeons of Norrath appeal to a good number of players.  I don't mind access quests sprinkled here and there, or even the occasional flagging (et al).  However, when that becomes the only truly worthwhile endeavor at the end-game, I will quit.  As long as single group content parallels raid content (ie you never REQUIRE raid stuff to progress through the group stuff), and the overall equipment and weapon rewards are similar, I have no problem.</p><p>Invaribly, however, people want the BEST stuff period, even if it means participating in content they don't find enjoyable.  The question becomes one of "why bother with single group dungeon X, when Raid dungeon Y yields a FAR better reward?"  Of course, then the argument always arises "if the best stuff doesn't come from raiding, nobody would raid."  Well to me, that makes the point perfectly.  Are you simply wanting MORE stuff to do, or do you truly enjoy managing 23 (whatever the number is) other people to feel accomplished?  If it is a case of truly enjoying raids, then why do the rewards have to be so blatantly superior -- I thought the point was you wanted to spend time getting flagged/keyed, and getting together 23 other people to take out the bad guys? </p><p>You should be rewarded, of course, but why do the rewards have to be SO much better?  The answer is they don't, and shouldn't be IF you want to raid for the sake of raiding.  Otherwise, you take away from MY game, because not only are your rewards WAY better, now nobody wants to do group stuff because the rewards suck comparatively.  You cannot make the case the other way around, because if group content rewards the same or reasonably the same, and thus the majority of players opt for groups over raids, then it is clear the majority do not like raiding, and simply want stuff to do to progress.</p><p>As a casual player (no idea what you or anyone else thinks that means), I simply want a ton of content to do that only requires a single group of people.  I don't mind if there is content that requires 4 or more groups -- in fact I welcome it!  However, as I repeat myself, I don't want that to be the ONLY viable option of progression once I reach the level cap.  If that happens, I don't cry and complain -- I simply quit.</p><p>EDIT:  I want all kinds of content in the game I play, from solo to group to raid.  However, I should be able to be effective with my equipment (again, being reasonable) no matter what I spend the majority of time doing.  You see, the raiders invaribly enjoy the lions share of a game, because they access all content equally due to their superior rewards.  If I have some of the best equipment to be had from group rewards, or even solo rewards, I should be able to participate in a raid every so often without problem.  Unfortunately, what happens is not only is my equipment vastly inferior (making me next to worthless), I have to jump through all the hoops of keying/flagging (which usually require raids themselves) in order to even participate!  Meanwhile, the raiding player can choose all content in the game without issue, and everyone who doesn't cannot.  As long as the seamless transition is available for all playstyles, we have no issue; as soon as you block off a significant portion of the game based purely on playstyle (often times not really a choice), your game sucks.  As long as you are making an effort to keep your character progressing (adept 1, solo/group rewards), you should be able to effectively participate in ALL content designed for whatever level range you are in.  Anything else is purely asinine, and you WILL lose players.</p><p>I STILL do all the access quests in this game, although the majority of them are completely unnecessary.  Why?  Because I enjoy getting a group of friends together and beating nameds, getting AA and normall exp, and usually getting other rewards as well.  If I were REQUIRED to do these, I'd probably quit.  Why? you may ask?  Because if I have a quest for zone X, or more importantly, all my friends are currently playing in zone X, I want to GO there and PLAY.  I don't want to force my friends to redo content simply so I can play with them in zone X.  Options, period.  If you don't understand that, I have no better way to explain it.</p>

[Kenazeer]

<cite>Aegiz wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>there isnt a 2 way street, you either stay soft and have limited and easy content available to everyone which people become bored of quickly or you have content which can be continually unlocked. planes of power had access quests in raid, many of them. you needed a good raiding guild to access the top tiers of progression, however if you wanted to experience the bulk of the game, you would need to only go the groupable and soloable access quests to reach the non-raid zones.</p><p>mmos will always be split between the raiders and the casual, but why cant we have both worlds? if you would quit because there is more content available to those who want it, then i would call you foolish.</p><p>there is only so much this game offers right now. it is too easy for people to access all of the game, the raiding parts are very difficult because they have to be to keep people away from completing them so they dont run out of things to do. if raids required real strategy and there was many of them, a funner game would be the result, instead, you would have 10 differant instances of something like unrest and be perfectly content after completing them all.</p><p>who knows what makes the game fun for the casual man, i certainly dont. the only feeling of adventure i still get from an MMO is unlocking a new zone to explore, without flagging, i recieve a huge doze of fun and then it gets lamer and lamer as weeks go by. you only experience that true sense of adventure when you first level up, at end game, you either play 2 hours a week, quit, or start raiding.</p></blockquote><p>I will go out on a limb here and say they will NEVER have a PoP or OoW like expansion in EQ2. If you came here looking for anything like eq1 post SoL you will find yourself disappointed.</p><p>EQ2 caters to the masses, even in "raid" content. If you don't understand this you might not have delved deep enough into the past changes to the game.</p><p>Do you think they accidently instanced the quest mobs for DT access? </p><p>Good or bad, it is what it is, and you are only going to become more frustrated if you don't accept that. </p>

[Coica]

<cite>JohnDoe061 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Give me some life experience examples where you can do things more successfully solo than you could with more than one?</p></blockquote><p> Taking a dump.</p></blockquote>QFE.  hahahaha!

[Nainitsuj]

<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>anyone made it through emerald halls to the end yet? </blockquote><p> Yes.</p><p> And yes, I've watched Woushi die.</p>

[Nainitsuj]

<cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Give me some life experience examples where you can do things more successfully solo than you could with more than one? </p></blockquote><p>Installing / servicing a furnace / central air system.</p><p>Though TSSA requires 2 people or more on a job site, it's not necessary.  Most companies send an apprentice with a journeyman.  Apprentice does the piping and I do the rest since it's illegal for them to actually work on the furnace.</p><p>You really think it's better to have 2 people standing around 12 hours a day for $45.00 an hour?</p>

[tass]

lol didn't think anyone had accomplished it yet. That zone was 1 hell of a pain in all of the ones that I went through with raids in beta. Got some nice stuff in all of em to. Dam those evil butterflies.