I litterally fell asleep last night in Emerald Halls

[Krontak]

<p>Seriously though SOE.  Does the whole top floor really have to be cleared?  Why not just the named like the other lvls.  I kinda wonder if there isn't some sick [Removed for Content] at SOE sitting around tearing his nails out with pliers designing these zones.  [Removed for Content] were you thinking?</p>

[Siclone]

<p>nice sig, nice to see a good sig one that dont make me feel i am in a cartoon world</p><p>oh stop your crying about Emerald halls, it is what it is, dont like it dont go there.  </p>

[Krontak]

<p>I'm not crying.  I'm falling asleep.  Its boring.</p><p>And thanks. Its my first sig.  I wanted something a bit more sexy but this will have to do until I can find nude photos of David Hasselhoff to fix up.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>If they made it so JUST the fae on the top floor came with woushi i wouldn't loose any sleep over it. </p><p>The trash on the third floor alreayd provides enough reason to clear them without needing them to add when you pull woushi. </p><p>Third floor adds drops scales, seeds, lao'sur poisens, gleamign arrows, direwood stakes. So what is the point in woushi calling the ENTIRE third floor. Why not the entire zone. If they made just this one change it would remove ~30+ minutes from this zone. </p>

[Krontak]

Oh Lord.  Don't start pushing for Woushi to call the whole zone.  Some crazy person out there might think its a good idea and fly with it.

[Yourbestfriend]

Look, get more dps it will go faster. We just did everything in the expansion with the exception of contested mayong/phh in 8 and a half hours on saturday. This game is already on easy mode. It doesn't take time once you learn it. Yes my guild was once like that as well. It took us 2 and a half hours per floor. Then you learn how to maximize your dps and to pay attention at all times. Then surprisingly it doesn't take forever to kill stuff! This zone has already been nerfed, gms are not going to nerf the zone anymore then it already has been. People need to stop complaining about it and suck it up.

[Krontak]

<p>Could you answer a few questions for me then?</p><p>Do you think its fun to clear all the trash on the third floor?</p><p>Is this a video game?</p><p>Are video games supposed to be fun?</p>

[mkd1200]

<cite>Siclone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>oh stop your crying about Emerald halls, it is what it is, dont like it dont go there.  </p></blockquote> QFE

[Krontak]

<cite>Krontak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm not crying.  I'm falling asleep.  Its boring.</p></blockquote> QFT

[Yourbestfriend]

<cite>Krontak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Could you answer a few questions for me then?</p><p>Do you think its fun to clear all the trash on the third floor?</p><p>Is this a video game?</p><p>Are video games supposed to be fun?</p></blockquote> Does it kill me to kill trash mobs for 1 hour to get upgrades for my guild? Umm nope, I don't mind it at all + I can test my recruits on DPS on the trash mobs. Win win situation for all! Then take the scales from the trash mobs and sell them for 100-150 plat or so and we have such a low economy server. Hell NPU sold a bow from Woushi for 1k Plat. I love EH's current state.

[Krontak]

I don't mind upgrades either.  I enjoy fighting encounters though that pose somewhat of a challenge, not the big snooze fest that you apparently love on the third floor.  I could give a rats [Removed for Content] about plat.  I don't need it.  Its not why I play the game.  I play the game because I enjoy playing video games.  Killing trash is not fun, anyway you or anyone else wants to spin it.  I feel sad for you that the crumb that SOE gave you for justifying killing all that garbage made you happy to be honest.  Did you enjoy all the trash prior to the tradeskilling items dropping?  Just a question of curiosity I guess.  If its just the plat that is making you happy then I'm not sure what to say.  But hey, I'm not going to curve your view.  You enjoy boring content, I don't.  We'll just leave it at that.

[Dasein]

Jaraxx, if you were looking to allocate developer resources at an MMO company, how much would you allocate to content less than about 1% of your total population would ever experience? How would you justify this allocation to the people financing the game?

[Kizee]

<p>Yeah I was falling asleep last night too and it was my first time to 3rd floor.</p><p>It is a losing battle arguing with the people that think clearing all that trash makes the zone fun. </p><p>Those same people would probally enjoy to be kicked in the balls over and over again. <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Yourbestfriend]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Jaraxx, if you were looking to allocate developer resources at an MMO company, how much would you allocate to content less than about 1% of your total population would ever experience? How would you justify this allocation to the people financing the game? </blockquote>Nope I agree 100% I would make everything easy so that the casual players could get what they want because they far outweight the minority of hardcore players. But then again you guys will continue to do it and you will end up spending more time in EH this week then I will raiding everything int he game. So I don't really care at this point. But if they nerf EH anymore we'll prolly just have to start raiding one day a week. It just seems a waste. Such lack of content already. And for the other guy - I Dont' like killing trash mobs but I think it's justfied for the rewards you can get out of it - especially now.

[Kizee]

Jaraxx@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Jaraxx, if you were looking to allocate developer resources at an MMO company, how much would you allocate to content less than about 1% of your total population would ever experience? How would you justify this allocation to the people financing the game? </blockquote>Nope I agree 100% I would make everything easy so that the casual players could get what they want because they far outweight the minority of hardcore players. But then again you guys will continue to do it and you will end up spending more time in EH this week then I will raiding everything int he game. So I don't really care at this point. But if they nerf EH anymore we'll prolly just have to start raiding one day a week. It just seems a waste. Such lack of content already. And for the other guy - I Dont' like killing trash mobs but I think it's justfied for the rewards you can get out of it - especially now. </blockquote> Make the named that much harder and eliminate the need to clear the whole floor and the zone will be just right. I don't mind figuring out named mob but being forced to clear floor after floor of no challenge trash is just poor zone design.

[mkd1200]

no one is forcing anyone to do EH, if killing trash isn't your cup of tea, then don't zone in.  pretty simple.  there are plenty of other zones you could try that are probably closer to your ability, such as T5 instances and maybe Courts. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Caetrel]

Jaraxx@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote> I Dont' like killing trash mobs but I think it's justfied for the rewards you can get out of it </blockquote> Killing Trash = rewards?

[Yourbestfriend]

Ok Eliminate the trash mobs. Sweet now we can do EH in under an hour! Rewards sure even off the trash - you get tradeskill items, unless you guys are complaining about the toughness of the trash mobs and you can't even kill them. Rewards zoning in and killing a named isn't my idea of a fun zone. My idea of fun is zoning in and putting a real effort into the zone. Since almost everyone in my guild has a job or a family we can't spend 10+ hours killing EH So we are forced to do this thing called paying attention and focus. Since we do that, we clear the zone in anywere from 4-6 hours and we get the rewards (Loot/fun) that not many experienced. Then they gimped EH (not intentionally) it was just a pushover without the lag/massive aoes. Why does SoE have to make it anymore easier for you guys. I don't understand. I mean what's next? Bull [Removed for Content] if you want mobs tougher. The chances are not many of you guys who cleared EH now would not of been able to defeat the old Woushi yet. The chances are you wouldn't of been able to defeat Gardener. So what did SoE do? Bam lag gone - Gardener = [Removed for Content] (I agree with it) Then they factored in resists into Natures fury (bad idea in my opinion) Woushi gimped. Aoes you can't mitigate = a awesome idea in my opinion. It makes mobs alot tougher.

[Krontak]

<p>Just an fyi, proof read what you type before hitting submit.</p><p>...unless you guys are complaining about the toughness of the trash mobs and you can't even kill them.  <---this doesn't even make sense if you even read any of this thread.</p><p>For the record.  I've never wanted any named encounter to be easier.  My only gripe is having to clear all the trash is boring.  Clearing the trash to kill the named associated with them I guess is fine but still having to kill 15 vs only half that wouldn't take away from the game.  I'm not sure why you seem intent on dragging other issues such as how they fixed charm lag and mitigated AOEs into this thread.  Fixing the charm lag made the game better.  I'm not quite sure how you can justify broken content being good for the game.  Anways, it really has nothing to do with this thread.</p>

[Yourbestfriend]

No - the bottom line is this. EH is a time sink, if you want the rewards of EH "Woushi" loot. You are going to have to put some time in. The devs aren't going to change it. So Suck it up and stop [Removed for Content] about it.

[Gungo]

Jaraxx@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Ok Eliminate the trash mobs. Sweet now we can do EH in under an hour! Rewards sure even off the trash - you get tradeskill items, unless you guys are complaining about the toughness of the trash mobs and you can't even kill them. Rewards zoning in and killing a named isn't my idea of a fun zone. My idea of fun is zoning in and putting a real effort into the zone. Since almost everyone in my guild has a job or a family we can't spend 10+ hours killing EH So we are forced to do this thing called paying attention and focus. Since we do that, we clear the zone in anywere from 4-6 hours and we get the rewards (Loot/fun) that not many experienced. Then they gimped EH (not intentionally) it was just a pushover without the lag/massive aoes. Why does SoE have to make it anymore easier for you guys. I don't understand. I mean what's next? Bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] if you want mobs tougher. The chances are not many of you guys who cleared EH now would not of been able to defeat the old Woushi yet. The chances are you wouldn't of been able to defeat Gardener. So what did SoE do? Bam lag gone - Gardener = [Removed for Content] (I agree with it) Then they factored in resists into Natures fury (bad idea in my opinion) Woushi gimped. <b>Aoes you can't mitigate = a awesome idea in my opinion. It makes mobs alot tougher.</b> </blockquote><p>Woh there i know your the leader of strike and all but seriosuly how can you justify making resists meaningless to AoE's. Your basically asking for resist to mean absolutley nada and thus making loot upgrades useless. Thats poor design. Although resists in general right now are poorly handled. </p><p>And simply i don't agree with you. My guild can clear EH its not a big deal. But Doing the zone on a regular raid night is a pain. There is nothing wrong with removing SOME of the trash on the thrid floor from being necessary. Their is plenty of rewards now for killing third floor trash. Seriously what will this change do probably reduce EH clearing ~30 minutes tops. It doesn't make it any harder killing them. It doesn't make your guild anymore special. EH even by the top guilds worldwide is still a ~5hour zone. Reducing trash clearing on the third floor although will allow most guilds to do it on a normal weeknight and let them get to bed at a normal time. </p><p>btw since when did raiding become time vs reward. </p><hr /> <p>IMHO the best fix i heard for EH tender/gardner drop a key that lasts for 24 hours. So every guild has the exact same time to clear it. Use the key outside or on the flower goign up the path to spawn the next level. That gives every guild the same amount of time no matter when they raid. </p><p>Also EH is missing some stuff. [Removed for Content] did the Watcher of the herd GO. Add him back in and give him some items this time. Where is the laosur poisen or Gleaming Arrows. It wouldn't hurt to put those back in the game as well. </p>

[Yourbestfriend]

I'm not going to argue this anymore. The Casual players far outweigh the majority. Anyways the majority of the hardcore guilds dont' even post here. This is the last time I will post on this EH crap. Bottomline is - The zone is fine how it is. If you can't clear it then you don't deserve to be in there. Argue that all you want, but first, Anything I said was not meant to be offensive. I have no problems with casual players and I don't like making any enemys, best of luck to all of you!

[Drodin]

I wouldnt mind seeing more fluff items come from the trash on 1st and 2nd floors.  some unique adornments, extra coin, repair kits, cloaks, collection items, furnature, and so on.  Anything that would be fun to /ran 24 and have be equally useless/useful for everyone.  Just something to break the tedium

[Gargamel]

<p>I love it when uberguilds that raid 6 times a week (enforced or your are kicked) pooh-pooh the "difficulty" of raid zones, acting like they aren't the 30-50 people on the server capable of doing it that way, and anyone that doesn't is simply slacking.</p>

[SnowKnight]

EH - Its the Molten Snore of EQ2!

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>Zone needs less trash that's laughably easy to kill but has millions of hp.</p><p>How about halving the hp of all the trash in there but making it hit twice as hard?</p><p>Also; 3rd floor does indeed suck. Especially when, as happened last night, the sum total of trash drops from that floor are one seed. And this was after looting another two fabled set items, both discoveries, for classes we don't even have in the guild (Bruiser, SK). In fact, our total loot haul was the brawler gloves from prince (transmuted - awful item), the leather boots from mistress (transmuted - awful item), robe from tender (transmuted - awful item), brawler set from Sariah, SK set from Gardener (least, I think that's who dropped it), so we'd actually got to the 3rd floor before anything worthwhile dropped.</p><p>Oh and - is there any particular reason why all the 3rd floor named except Wuoshi are hilariously [Removed for Content]? The hardest named in EH are on the 1st and 2nd floor which makes no sense, particularly when the joke that is Sawtooth (no harder than the 1st floor trash crocs by the zone) is dropping stuff like the Clearcutter Machete.</p>

[kenm]

EH is the best zone in the game, how could you fall asleep during it? <img src="/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Krontak]

<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Zone needs less trash that's laughably easy to kill but has millions of hp.</p><p>How about halving the hp of all the trash in there but making it hit twice as hard?</p><p>Also; 3rd floor does indeed suck. Especially when, as happened last night, the sum total of trash drops from that floor are one seed. And this was after looting another two fabled set items, both discoveries, for classes we don't even have in the guild (Bruiser, SK). In fact, our total loot haul was the brawler gloves from prince (transmuted - awful item), the leather boots from mistress (transmuted - awful item), robe from tender (transmuted - awful item), brawler set from Sariah, SK set from Gardener (least, I think that's who dropped it), so we'd actually got to the 3rd floor before anything worthwhile dropped.</p><p>Oh and - is there any particular reason why all the 3rd floor named except Wuoshi are hilariously [Removed for Content]? The hardest named in EH are on the 1st and 2nd floor which makes no sense, particularly when the joke that is Sawtooth (no harder than the 1st floor trash crocs by the zone) is dropping stuff like the Clearcutter Machete.</p></blockquote><p> Difficulty is not what defines hardcore.  Haven't you been paying attention?  It all about how much trash and how fast you can burn it down that truely seperates the hardcore people from the casuals.</p><p>We've never seen Sawtooth but you're right.  If one of the best 1 handers is going to drop in game, why would it be off such a [Removed for Content] mob.  If anything, they should beef up the named and take out some of the trash.  At least then the place would be more interesting.  In its current state its [Removed for Content]' boring.  But hey, boring is the new hardcore and the developers are never going to change it so we should all keep to ourselves.</p>

[Lleinen]

Neh, making them "harder" doesnt do anything, once you figure em out they normally go onto Farm Status like everything else. Best bet is to just cut down the hp on the trash, imo.  Haha, and yah I love the arguement where if you dont like killing trash then you need to zone out.  Single dumbest thing Ive ever heard of.  No one likes clearing trash, but we do it because we gotta, to get to the good shiz, rewarding to kill them? naw not really.

[Groma]

As much as it pains me to say it, making the names harder is not the answer to the problem.  Many people don't want to spend the hours clearing all the trash to fight the names.  From their standpoint, i can understand why they want to leave it as is, and from my standpoint without weekend time nor the ability to do multiple day raids i would like to see the trash not called for any mob. Simple solution? Leave the tradeskill stuff on the trash, so they are still worth killing.  Don't have the names call them, so people who just simply do not have the time to dump into the zone can bypass some of it and still manage to kill the names and get the zone finished.  We gave EH our first attempt last night, killed Prince Thirneg and Mistress of the Veil, no rumbler or Sarik up.  We cleared our way to Tender, and by the time we managed to finish off the seedlings with the buff strip AE lag killing people and wiping us a few times we were able to get 1 pull on Tender before people had to log, and those people only stuck around long enough because it was going to be our first attempt at Tender.  I don't want the zone to be easy mode, but filling it with trash mobs is a little annoying.  Pack in a few more names, drop some of the trash, and call it a day.

[Kenazeer]

Heck. Isn't the challenge for the top end guilds fighting for contested mobs amongst one another. That would be where I would put my pride if I was in such a guild, NOT being to able to wade through trash mobs. I guess that is where people are different and each find their own level of greatness.

[Sapphira]

There seems to be several discussions very similar to this one ongoing in this forum.  Lets consolidate and keep the discussion <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=307756" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>.