Fame, Infamy, and Notoriety

[Expiate]

The current title system creates ganking, immunity hugging, and even worse, makes people not want to pvp unless they have an obvious advantage. After hearing so many people discuss how much they dislike this system, I'd like to hear some opinions on how this could be fixed.

[Wytie]

<p>what you mean is you would like to hear people say "Remove titles" & "Titles suck" ect...</p><p>nothing they can do that wont disrupt peoples current views, someone will win others will die, everyone still sucks <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Expiate]

<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>what you mean is you would like to hear people say "Remove titles" & "Titles suck" ect...</p><p>nothing they can do that wont disrupt peoples current views, someone will win others will die, everyone still sucks <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Wow, you proved you lack the common sense necessary to read~ I wouldn't like to say or hear people say "<span style="color: #cc0000">remove titles</span>" & "<span style="color: #cc0000">titles suck</span>" etc... Otherwise I wouldn't have created a thread trying to get people's opinions on how to change the way you receive a pvp title. Your last sentence, "<span style="color: #cc0000">nothing they can do that wont disrupt peoples current views, someone will win others will die, everyone still sucks</span><span style="color: #cc0000"> </span><img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" you should be banned for, that's how much sense it doesn't make. Disrupting people's current views is why people have opinions, and I can't decipher down-syndrome, so I can't understand the rest.

[Bozidar]

<p>The system didn't create the problems, the players do.  It's that simple.</p><p>Person X who does Y does it because they're a [Removed for Content], not because SOE made them do it.</p><p>Accept it.. it's not the fame system that's broken, it's the community of players who put too much stock into it.</p><p>Something i'd like to see done: Put a new graphic on a player.  Maybe a little bar that goes from the left, all the way to the right with 10 ticks or so.. someone with 1 tick has 100 kills.  someone with 2 ticks has 200 kills.. ect.. </p><p>I'd like to know when i'm facing an opponent who has killed a lot, even if they dont' have a title.</p><p>How about a color system to guide us to their K<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ratio?  Red means they have one very high, orange is slightly lower, yellow is lower, but still positive, white is about even, blue is less than 50, green is way less than 50, and grey is "Bot".</p>

[Wytie]

<cite>Expiate wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>what you mean is you would like to hear people say "Remove titles" & "Titles suck" ect...</p><p>nothing they can do that wont disrupt peoples current views, someone will win others will die, everyone still sucks <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Wow, you proved you lack the common sense necessary to read~ I wouldn't like to say or hear people say "<span style="color: #cc0000">remove titles</span>" & "<span style="color: #cc0000">titles suck</span>" etc... Otherwise I wouldn't have created a thread trying to get people's opinions on how to change the way you receive a pvp title. Your last sentence, "<span style="color: #cc0000">nothing they can do that wont disrupt peoples current views, someone will win others will die, everyone still sucks</span><span style="color: #cc0000"> </span><img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" you should be banned for, that's how much sense it doesn't make. Disrupting people's current views is why people have opinions, and I can't decipher down-syndrome, so I can't understand the rest. </blockquote><p>Maybe you just dont understand.... dono </p><p>This is only one of about a hundered threads just like this...  See the thing you dont realize is SOE isnt going to take away titles or change them, they cant it would [Removed for Content] too many people off, and create too much buggy work, so your thread is pretty much worthless like all the others, and turn into people posting just like all the others to just simply remove them.</p><p>I know just like you do it limits pvp and i dont like it either, maybe i hurt your feelings, for that im sorry but that post was as a joke. sorry you couldnt get that, just made me lol like all the other threads asking for title changes. As others have stated is not the titles its the people, so no matter what no one will ever be happy......... </p>

[3ofme]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The system didn't create the problems, the players do.  It's that simple.</p><p>*snip~</p><p>Something i'd like to see done: Put a new graphic on a player.  Maybe a little bar that goes from the left, all the way to the right with 10 ticks or so.. someone with 1 tick has 100 kills.  someone with 2 ticks has 200 kills.. ect.. </p><p>I'd like to know when i'm facing an opponent who has killed a lot, even if they dont' have a title.</p><p>How about a color system to guide us to their K<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ratio?  Red means they have one very high, orange is slightly lower, yellow is lower, but still positive, white is about even, blue is less than 50, green is way less than 50, and grey is "Bot".</p></blockquote><p>I don't see how this would help at all, so now all the zone huggers, fame [Removed for Content], basic cowards seeking an advantage would have another tool at their disposal to see if they need to hit evac or run away before a fight would start.</p><p>Either fight the opponet or not, what would be the benefit to adding this to the system? </p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>3ofme wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Either fight the opponet or not, what would be the benefit to adding this to the system? </p></blockquote><p> to me it's more meaningful than infamy.</p><p>Bah, i guess it's just as meaningless.. you're right</p>

[Ameniel]

<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Expiate wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>what you mean is you would like to hear people say "Remove titles" & "Titles suck" ect...</p><p>nothing they can do that wont disrupt peoples current views, someone will win others will die, everyone still sucks <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Wow, you proved you lack the common sense necessary to read~ I wouldn't like to say or hear people say "<span style="color: #cc0000">remove titles</span>" & "<span style="color: #cc0000">titles suck</span>" etc... Otherwise I wouldn't have created a thread trying to get people's opinions on how to change the way you receive a pvp title. Your last sentence, "<span style="color: #cc0000">nothing they can do that wont disrupt peoples current views, someone will win others will die, everyone still sucks</span><span style="color: #cc0000"> </span><img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" you should be banned for, that's how much sense it doesn't make. Disrupting people's current views is why people have opinions, and I can't decipher down-syndrome, so I can't understand the rest. </blockquote><p>Maybe you just dont understand.... dono </p><p>This is only one of about a hundered threads just like this...  See the thing you dont realize is SOE isnt going to take away titles or change them, they cant it would [Removed for Content] too many people off, and create too much buggy work, so your thread is pretty much worthless like all the others, and turn into people posting just like all the others to just simply remove them.</p><p>I know just like you do it limits pvp and i dont like it either, maybe i hurt your feelings, for that im sorry but that post was as a joke. sorry you couldnt get that, just made me lol like all the other threads asking for title changes. As others have stated is not the titles its the people, so no matter what no one will ever be happy......... </p></blockquote><p>QFE</p>

[sprogn]

<p>Proposal:</p><p>Let's presume fame is awarded in a "points style" manner.</p><p>A standard same level kill is regarded as 10 points.</p><p><b>Then the following modifications:</b></p><p>For each level they are over you, +1 points. For each level they are under you, -1 point. For each rank they are over you, +1 point. For each rank they are under you, -0.5 points. You receive a bonus of (difference in grouped/raided players) x2.  (ie, 1 player beat against an x2 will receive 22 extra fame points for each kill - 2x11 extra players) If you have +2 players over the group you are fighting, you loose 3x the difference in players.  (6 vs 3 will receive a -9 mod per kill) </p><p>Zoning/evaccing in combat awards a "win" fame, but only 50% loss to the escapee.</p><p>Examples:</p><p>L70 slayer attacks L69 destroyer.  L70 wins.  10 fame points -1 for level, +1 for rank = 10 points awarded to 70, lost from 69. 3 L60 hunters kill a L70 unranked.  10 fame points, -6 for difference, +10 for level = 14 points awarded to each L60, 14 lost from L70. L70 hunter chases L70 champion to zone and champ flees.  10 points, +3 for rank = 13 points to hunter, -6.5 from champion.</p><p>Just a random idea <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[sprogn]

<p>Should add to the above that negative fame can be awarded but would suggest it's reduced by 75%.  Yes it's fun to smack up L1 shiny harvesting bots in bonemire.  The fame hit would be about -15 points - nothing major to the average PVPer under this system.</p><p>Additionally this would work if a x4 steamrollered a duo (22 player difference = -66 fame from the 10, so -56.  25% of this is 14.  So a -14 fame hit per person.</p><p>Negative fame to the winner results in 0 fame change to the defeated.</p>

[Mutant]

<p><i>The current title system creates ganking, immunity hugging, and even worse, makes people not want to pvp unless they have an obvious advantage.</i> <b>- I gank people all the time that have no titles and will not give me fame. - People zone and immune hug from me all the time that don't have titles and will not lose fame from me. - People attack me all the time when they have an obvious advantage even when they can not get fame from me.</b></p><p>Some people take pride in their titles and some people do cowardly things to keep them, but it is human nature to want to survive even if that translates to keeping your digital character alive. Titles are a reward for pvping, might I add one of the few things pvpers actually get. So please take it away with my pvp gear so we can all duel on blubie servers in candy land. Titles being removed will not change anything whatsoever, people will never change the way they play. </p>

[Yage]

<p>I never understood why they went away from the original PVE model and didn't base it off straight up kill count.  It was a system that worked and would show who really pvps since i get or lose no fame from all the higher titled people i kill.</p><p>example.... </p><p>1000 kills hunter</p><p>2000 kills slayer</p><p>3000 kills destroyer</p><p>5000 kills champion</p><p>8000 kills dread</p><p>and so on....</p>

[Yage]

<p>here is another idea... base it off kill count ranking.  The top 10 for your server are overseers, next 20 or so are masters, next batch are generals and so on...  Will still give the ability to be deranked, but would really identify the true people due respect, not just someone who hit general and back to slayer in 2 days.</p>

[Erronn]

<p>I would just like to add that since there is no "number" representation of fame/infamy, it is hard to analyze it. I'd propose that at least on the pvp test server values be shown for fame/infamy. That way, we can see what each type of kill or death really does. I hear that a solo being killed by a group nets the group small amounts of fame, and the solo looses a small amount, but how can we tell?</p>

[Ikuri]

Yage@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>I never understood why they went away from the original PVE model and didn't base it off straight up kill count.  It was a system that worked and would show who really pvps since i get or lose no fame from all the higher titled people i kill.</p><p>example.... </p><p>1000 kills hunter</p><p>2000 kills slayer</p><p>3000 kills destroyer</p><p>5000 kills champion</p><p>8000 kills dread</p><p>and so on....</p></blockquote><p> <i>Worst idea, we don't need a system to make it like wow, spam happy pvp. There is should be high penality for death in pvp.</i></p><p><i>Let me explain this to you. I'm a SK currently and the only non-scout Master on my server (extremly close to overseer shouldbe any day now) I also have a 44 brigand, he is the lowest level master on our server. Now if immunity hugging, ganking ect was the reason would get titles that I wouldn't be the only non-scout masteranf among the only 5 masters in my server now. Now you ask thenwhat is the problem ? The problem is you why ? hereis why : </i></p><p><i>If you bring a x2 to fight my group of 3 i will give you a middle finger evac and siti n immunity all day long. Why ? because you give me a fame hit or not im not going to fight a x2 with 3 people simple as that.  Now some peoplelike you mentioned in your original thread never fight until they have the advantage.  So DEAL with it, this has nothing to do with titles, this has todo with people's egos. They don't wanna lose, no one does, ven if you look irl people with advantage always want to advance on the weaker. Use strategy. tactics, I got my master titles pvping with a group of 3-4 and rarely 6 at all times. There are rules to combat you need to learn here isa few for ya : </i></p><p><i>- if your enemy is strong, evade him. </i></p><p><i>- if your enemy has double the number, divide them and fight. </i></p><p><i>- enemyhs mages, put a scout ofany lvl on them to keep them interrupted for the first 10-20 seconds of the fight. </i></p><p><i>- your enemy has lowernumbers and wont fight ? draw him by giving him advantage. </i></p><p><i>Seriously learn to play the game, learn to pvp, learn to use tactics and use your head to out smart your enemy. Just because you can't get it, doesn't mean its broke.</i></p>

[Xova]

Yage@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>I never understood why they went away from the original PVE model and didn't base it off straight up kill count.  It was a system that worked and would show who really pvps since i get or lose no fame from all the higher titled people i kill.</p><p>example.... </p><p>1000 kills hunter</p><p>2000 kills slayer</p><p>3000 kills destroyer</p><p>5000 kills champion</p><p>8000 kills dread</p><p>and so on....</p></blockquote><p> My only problem with this is that like the poster above me, I think it encourages spam-happy PvP as opposed to tactical/strategic PvP, and I know I personally prefer to PvP with tactics rather than participate in mass slaughter.</p><p>I've got Dreadnaught and General on two toons, and I totally admit that having the high title makes me more cautious in PvP to the point that I pick and choose my fights carefully as opposed to just rushing in to slaughter or be slaughtered. My untitled toons I admit I am a little more reckless with and will jump into a fight swinging regardless of who I'm up against. I don't really like that I am so bound to my title, but it's hard not to be at times, and I think most people that have those kinds of titles understand what I mean.</p><p>The problem is that PvP is a competitive environment and in a competitive environment, people are going to want something they can point to and be able to say "I'm the best", or "I'm this good". It's just human nature. And titles are a means of being able to do that. It's a visible sign that the person holding it is likely better than the average player.</p><p>If there was a system in place where we could earn the titles (or similar) via PvP, and then not lose it upon death, then you'd see less title hugging, etc. And yeah I know that probably sounds lame, but that's why people hug their titles - they don't want to die and lose them. Make it so death in PvP doesn't result in a "shameful" loss and I guarantee you'll see a lot more people out fighting instead of guarding their titles.</p><p>Anyway, just my 2cp. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Qanil]

<p>I think the title system is pretty good.  I mean, the only thing I think is completely out of whack is that you take a complete fame hit regardless of who is in the group "if they are in the title range" to do it.   Meaning I get rolled by an X4 , I lose the same amount of fame as if I died in a solo fight.  Sure, the forces get a fraction of what they'd get if they beat me solo, but I lose it all the same.</p><p>If you based titles off of kill counts it'd have no meaning. I mean people that were here from day one could have slaughtered thousands of people that had no chance, whereas the current title system takes into consideration the title of the person you're fighting.  It isn't perfect but it's about as good as I can think of to implement.</p>

[Xova]

<cite>Qanil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think the title system is pretty good.  I mean, the only thing I think is completely out of whack is that you take a complete fame hit regardless of who is in the group "if they are in the title range" to do it.   Meaning I get rolled by an X4 , I lose the same amount of fame as if I died in a solo fight.  Sure, the forces get a fraction of what they'd get if they beat me solo, but I lose it all the same.</p><p><span style="color: #cc00ff">If you based titles off of kill counts it'd have no meaning. I mean people that were here from day one could have slaughtered thousands of people that had no chance, whereas the current title system takes into consideration the title of the person you're fighting. </span> It isn't perfect but it's about as good as I can think of to implement.</p></blockquote> Exactly. Very well said.