Set Piece Distribution

[Ganlu]

It looks like the update on Test bases set pieces dropping on who is in your group.  This is excellent news!  Now that begs the question... if you zone out everyone right as the named is about to die, will it drop the piece for the remaining person 100% of the time, or is it based only on who's in the group, not the zone? On the downside, there go my chances of picking up some no-trade fabled that no one else can use <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Goonch]

<p>*** Gameplay ***</p><p>- EoF Fabled and Legendary set piece distribution will now be based on the makeup of those who participate in the encounter.</p><hr /><p>More importantly will it check to see if those pieces already exist on the players in the zone?</p><p>This is more of an issue I think than pieces of classes not in raid dropping.  </p><p>For example if 2 Berserkers are in raid and both have the Helmet off of Treyloth is there a chance it will still drop?  Or if 2 brigands are in raid will sariah still drop brigand boots if those boots exist on their character?  Because currently I know that is the biggest issue for a lot of guilds.</p>

[Ganlu]

I doubt it will examine the actual inventories, simply because they probably still want SOME random element to be in play.  If they checked inventories as well, everyone will get their set gear fairly quickly as every run will net a piece for someone.  This isn't necessarily bad, but it's probably not what they want.

[Groma]

It may not be the perfect solution, but its a darn good start.  Lets see how effective it is once it goes live.  I'm going to be upset if we kill Enynti again and get ANOTHER pair of Coercer cuffs, but its just something we have to deal with.  This idea is much better than transmuting server disco swashy armor, or having to run a SK from haven to loot gear from FTH.

[ke'la]

<p>could you immagine the amount of lag that would result if it had to check the inventory of every player in a group or raid, to see if they have that iteam? I don't think we will be seeing them only dropping iteams not currently used by someone in the group. Besides once every iteam in that MoB's loot table is to be had by everyone in the group then that mob won't drop Iteams at all just master spells or something.</p><p>24 people on raid x (21 equipment slots + (6x32 inventory slots)) = ALOT of Lag</p>

[Savara]

Awesome change and thanks for looking into this problem.  I have seen alot of set pieces drop for classes not included in the raid and this will fix that issue!  The RNG should be affected because certain class gear will be omitted in the calculation of the drop.  Lets wait and see on that part.

[SmCaudata]

ke'la wrote: <blockquote><p>could you immagine the amount of lag that would result if it had to check the inventory of every player in a group or raid, to see if they have that iteam? I don't think we will be seeing them only dropping iteams not currently used by someone in the group. Besides once every iteam in that MoB's loot table is to be had by everyone in the group then that mob won't drop Iteams at all just master spells or something.</p><p>24 people on raid x (21 equipment slots + (6x32 inventory slots)) = ALOT of Lag</p></blockquote> That would be a silly way to code it.  It would be easier to add a 16 bit number to the character that would use bits to code for what piece they have.  It wouldn't create lag then as it would not be very many calculations.  Also if all players had the pieces then it could drop anything.  Not saying they should do it this way, just that it is feasible and not computaion intensive. As to creating randomness.  Most mobs that drop set pieces have between 8 and 24 pieces based on slot and class right?  This means that it would still take 24 kills of Woushi to get everyone in the raid a pair of pants.  At one run a week that comes out to 6 months.  A guild who is able to kill woushi for 6 months straight should be rewarded with a pair of pants for everyone.  Would be nice if Mayong and Woushi did an inventory check while the other drops just did a class check.

[SmCaudata]

Oh, and don't forget the best benefit of all of this.  More people will be getting full sets so then maybe the devs will look into the set bonuses with a bit more haste.  As it sits now the swash bonuses are quite craptastic when compared to the assassin and brigand sets.  The fact that assassins get a set bonus that is twice as powerful as a swash top tier AA ability makes me quite sad.  This is just an example with classes I am more familiar with.  I know other classes have similar discrepencies between sets.  Either make bonuses just that, minor bonuses, or make them all equally nice.  Have some be basically necessary and others hardly noticable just doesn't seem right.

[Niende]

Kellindril@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>As it sits now the swash bonuses are quite craptastic when compared to the assassin and brigand sets.  </blockquote>You actually think the brigand eof fabled set armor is good? Lol.

[SmCaudata]

<cite>Niende wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kellindril@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>As it sits now the swash bonuses are quite craptastic when compared to the assassin and brigand sets.  </blockquote>You actually think the brigand eof fabled set armor is good? Lol. </blockquote> Actually wasn't saying that. I was saying the 7 piece set bonus is pretty nice by comparison. 8% melee crit on 7 pieces is not bad.  I get 2% from my chest but that is it.  The swash set bonus is 10% double attack, which mounts to a 5.8% increase in auto attack damage for wisdom specc'ed swashies, and even less if those swashies ever benefit from illusionary arm since they will cap.  I'd rather have the 8% crit any day.  Currently my plan for the most damage will be to use ledgendary shoulders, forearms and gloves for 2% crit.  Coat of static aura for another 2%, then the best possible legs and hat I can find since I have the clawed basilisk boots from DT.  I would swap in the swash BP when I cast inspiration.  If I got an 8% crit from my set the set would be better and warrant wearing at all times.  Like I said, I want to wear the 7 pieces because they are awesome. I don't want to wear them around town to show off just to swap them out on the actual raid. The other problem with the swash set is that the one handed line gives you a 14% increase to melee damage.   Since dual wielding swashies will get the full benefit it will close this gap, making agi/str better overall.  I don't like the idea of the armor bonuses having such a dramaticly different effect based on AA decisions.  Zerkers who buckler spec have this come up as well. Now, the pieces as a whole for stats and resists are pretty comparable across the rogue/pread classes with swashies and brigands coming out on top with best fit of stats to their class. <u>I really didnt' mean to derail the thread though</u>, so if you have questions about my my math or anything you can message me so it can get back on topic.

[valkyrja]

The downside to this is, you will no longer be able to farm the sage for pants, which you can then sell.

[shadowgate]

<cite>valkyrja wrote:</cite><blockquote>The downside to this is, you will no longer be able to farm the sage for pants, which you can then sell. </blockquote>I didn't read in there anywhere that they are taking away the trade-ablity of the ones that you can currently trade or did I miss something?

[SmCaudata]

He's saying that in a NBG group you will only have pants to sell from one of the 6 classes present provided they already had them.  Personally, think of it this way.  Your group will be more likely to be equipped, and if something drops that a group member has you will have a 1 in 5 chance to win it to sell at worst since they are lore. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Where if something dropped that no one could use you had a 1 in 6 chance.  The downside is that if you duo or trio the avatar event you will only be able to get 2 or 3 different class gloves to sell.  I guess with all the ways to make money in this game I don't see it as a problem.

[SinIsLaw]

I don't know ... but it will not really change much ... look at the RNG and it feels the system is way off, this change doesn't fix anything on the RNG problem (which i think there is) ... Take for example Enynti, who keeps on dropping Necro forearms on a high rate, out of the last 6 kills, we saw them 4 times - so all our Necros pretty much got it! Now with this upcoming change the Enynti's loot table is cut even more down, say ur Illu, Mystic & Wizz are not around, and u cut 3 items of the loot table, and something what had a high chance of dropping already before gets an even higher chance ... Sure, we can all argue that the RNG on loot works, but if you listen around you really get the impression certain items are more common then others! Further more it will create conflicts for classes who are asked to sit out on a raid for someone else, thus making their class none present at a raid -> causing them to have no chance of their class loot !!!  Tbh, the only thing this change will eventually bring an overflow on certain set item while other will become even more rare then they are right now ... I highly doubt that SoE would implement something that would check if toon A has certain item or not, to much coding would be needed, as you would need to check the characters equipped items, bags, bank vault & house vault ... going for a "mold"// "Relic type drop of named only" system would have been a far better way imo <a href="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/eq2_loot.php?BrowseNPC=1&Add=target&exp_id=7&pack_id=17&zone_id=74&target_id=221" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"></a>

[Aandien]

<p>If your willing to sit a few people out of a fight -- you can gear up much faster -- as you can remove the chance of an item dropping entirely.  At some point it may become unfeasable to sit out people who already have loot -- but as long as you were able to do it for at least a few kills, then your likely already geared faster than you would have been able to achieve otherwise.</p><p>For example, if a mob drops 8 set pieces, and you have all 8 classes at the raid, but only 1 person has their piece -- remove him from the raid and kill the mob.  You will guarantee yourself a piece for one of your remaining 7 members.  Repeat this next week and remove two people.  Continue to do so until the mob becomes unkillable or until all your people have their gear, whichever comes first, at which point, if you haven't killed it yet add 1 person back and kill it to maximize your chances of getting the gear you want.</p><p>Since each mob in a raid zone drops different pieces of gear -- you won't be asking to sit someone for an entire raid -- just for one particular fight and each fight who sits would be different (assuming you wanted to maximize the rate your guild gets class gear, which I presume everyone will be wanting to do)</p>

[Valarye]

<cite>SinIsLaw wrote:</cite><blockquote> Further more it will create conflicts for classes who are asked to sit out on a raid for someone else, thus making their class none present at a raid -> causing them to have no chance of their class loot !!!  <a href="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/eq2_loot.php?BrowseNPC=1&Add=target&exp_id=7&pack_id=17&zone_id=74&target_id=221" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"></a></blockquote>I agree with this statement.  I have a lvl 70 Bruiser (main) and a 70 Fury.  I am asked to raid my Fury quite often in my guild for need of healers.  I have always done this with the knowledge that if bruiser loot drops, I can always log her in and claim the drop.  With this change, there is NO chance of bruiser loot dropping for my main.  It's a bittersweet change =(

[sah]

Aandien wrote: <blockquote>For example, if a mob drops 8 set pieces, and you have all 8 classes at the raid, but only 1 person has their piece -- remove him from the raid and kill the mob.  You will guarantee yourself a piece for one of your remaining 7 members.  Repeat this next week and remove two people.  Continue to do so until the mob becomes unkillable or until all your people have their gear, whichever comes first, at which point, if you haven't killed it yet add 1 person back and kill it to maximize your chances of getting the gear you want.</blockquote>Actually, I think there are safeguards in place to prevent this sort of exploitation of the loot system, or at least make it much more difficult...  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[TheBu]

<p>this does have plus and min aspect to it.. it is true. purhaps some way of playing the odds in your favor as the op suggested.. even before they go live with it.</p><p> But more often than not u can imagen someone never getting ther whole set no matter how hard they tired. </p>

[Archonix]

Just wanted to clear up a few points about the loot changes: These particular changes were made to reduce the chance of single-class loot dropping <b>when a class wasn't present who could use the item</b>. We're aware of other issues in regards to loot distribution (The infamous Berserker Helm x12) <span style="font-size: x-small">and the existing issue of multiple drops of the same type </span>will be looked at in a future update. With GU34, this change will only effect the chance of armor dropping from encounters that drop Legendary/Fabled Armor Sets in Echoes of Faydwer.  In the event that no valid class is present, a random item will be selected (alts rejoice!).  For those encounters that drop additional items other then armor sets; if an armor piece is rolled to drop, and no valid class is present, a random armor set piece will be selected. Additionally, there are safeguards in place to limit gaming the system.  For example: Gathering up 23 of your closest friends who just happen to share the same class won't guarantee that you'll see that piece of armor you've been dying to get your hands on.

[Lleinen]

Aye, I still think relic'esque gear is better...at least an enchanter mold, warrior mold, brawler mold...etc atm its crazy, im so sick of seeing berserker loot (and we only have 1) and inquisitor BPs (and we only have 1) but from what I read, it seems ppl are having trouble with 1 random class, for us its berserkers someone else said brigands, someone else said necros.../shrug

[Guzz_Deaths_Door_EF]

Poor Brigs <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> they never get any gear LOL

[EvilIguana9]

<cite>Archonix wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just wanted to clear up a few points about the loot changes: These particular changes were made to reduce the chance of single-class loot dropping <b>when a class wasn't present who could use the item</b>. We're aware of other issues in regards to loot distribution (The infamous Berserker Helm x12) <span style="font-size: x-small">and the existing issue of multiple drops of the same type </span>will be looked at in a future update. With GU34, this change will only effect the chance of armor dropping from encounters that drop Legendary/Fabled Armor Sets in Echoes of Faydwer.  In the event that no valid class is present, a random item will be selected (alts rejoice!).  For those encounters that drop additional items other then armor sets; if an armor piece is rolled to drop, and no valid class is present, a random armor set piece will be selected. Additionally, there are safeguards in place to limit gaming the system.  For example: Gathering up 23 of your closest friends who just happen to share the same class won't guarantee that you'll see that piece of armor you've been dying to get your hands on. </blockquote> So in other words, you made the system worse than it was before.  I'm bummed out about this.  I was really hoping that I would have incentive to do instances since the chance a usable item would drop would be higher.  What has happened instead is that the chance of seeing usable loot is still the same, except that now when a set piece you can't use would drop you can no longer call in a friend or guildy to loot it, but instead you are awarded some random piece of loot that chances are nobody is interested in.  If the goal was to reduce the occurrence of people who didn't run the particular instance looting the reward, then you have succeeded.  If the goal was to make it so that the group running the instance has a better chance of getting something they can use, then the system fails horribly. 

[Kizee]

<p>A mold system would have fixed everything. </p><p>This so called "fix" does nothing.</p>

[LibraTari]

<cite>Archonix wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just wanted to clear up a few points about the loot changes: These particular changes were made to reduce the chance of single-class loot dropping <b>when a class wasn't present who could use the item</b>. We're aware of other issues in regards to loot distribution (The infamous Berserker Helm x12) <span style="font-size: x-small">and the existing issue of multiple drops of the same type </span>will be looked at in a future update. With GU34, this change will only effect the chance of armor dropping from encounters that drop Legendary/Fabled Armor Sets in Echoes of Faydwer.  In the event that no valid class is present, a random item will be selected (alts rejoice!).  For those encounters that drop additional items other then armor sets; if an armor piece is rolled to drop, and no valid class is present, a random armor set piece will be selected. Additionally, there are safeguards in place to limit gaming the system.  For example: Gathering up 23 of your closest friends who just happen to share the same class won't guarantee that you'll see that piece of armor you've been dying to get your hands on. </blockquote><p>I think I like the old system better... so when you go to COV you still have the same chance of getting your loot that you want ...but no chance to get the loot to someone else that can use it in the guild or even sell loot rights to....... </p><p>The way you discussed this in the past ... it seemed like a 1/6 chance of getting the item you want.</p><p>I feel like I am back in SWG.</p><p>Better off not changing anything. </p>

[Savara]

I like the change and see it as an improvement. I would rather see people who are in the raid getting gear than people outside and alts. If you get to a point were you don't need any pieces then you can still sell it and outfit your alts.

[Archonix]

EvilIguana966 wrote: <blockquote>So in other words, you made the system worse than it was before.  I'm bummed out about this.  I was really hoping that I would have incentive to do instances since the chance a usable item would drop would be higher.  <b>What has happened instead is that the chance of seeing usable loot is still the same, except that now when a set piece you can't use would drop you can no longer call in a friend or guildy to loot it, but instead you are awarded some random piece of loot that chances are nobody is interested in</b>.  If the goal was to reduce the occurrence of people who didn't run the particular instance looting the reward, then you have succeeded.  If the goal was to make it so that the group running the instance has a better chance of getting something they can use, then the system fails horribly.  </blockquote>I fail to see what was described above would lead you to believe the bolded text was the case?  In the event the encounter you've defeated can not find any valid classes matching loot in it's table, it will roll a random piece from it's table, in which nothing would be different then how it operated in the past.  Nothing is stopping anyone from inviting a friend/guildmate/etc to join the group and loot that particular piece of loot.

[Ktok]

<p>Just want to make sure I understand how this works...</p><p>If you take a group in to CoV, and that group has this makeup...</p><p>Guardian Templar Fury Swashie Brigand Conjurer</p><p>Then when the boss dies, since he *does* have an item for every class on his loot table, the class item will be either:</p><p>Warrior Cleric Druid Rogue Bard</p><p>Is that right? It *will* drop one of those five?</p>

[Windego]

<p>How exactly will this solve Beserker Helm x12 again if we have a beserker in the raid who already has the helm?</p><p>I think a great many would have prefered implementing a KoS type turn in system vs this approach.  The problem with the current system, regardless of the so called "fixes" is the great number of classes vs rng, I won't even mention the low chances of getting that "certain" piece you might be hoping for.</p><p>The KoS system wasn't perfect but at least allowed a wider variety of distribution being that it was divided up into the archetypes, chances were that someone would be able to use that piece, and at least allowed guilds the flexability of awarding armor based on there needs/desire to classes within that archetype.  No longer the case with EoF fix or not.</p><p>The EoF system of specific armor slots by specific NPCs sucks to put it bluntly, and regardless of these changes will continue to do so.  If the goal is to limit this armor entering the game, mission accomplished in any case.</p><p>I can only hope that come future expansions that the KoS model of turn in's is re-implemented instead of what happened in EoF.</p>

[Archonix]

<cite>Ktok wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just want to make sure I understand how this works...</p><p>If you take a group in to CoV, and that group has this makeup...</p><p>Guardian Templar Fury Swashie Brigand Conjurer</p><p>Then when the boss dies, since he *does* have an item for every class on his loot table, the class item will be either:</p><p>Warrior Cleric Druid Rogue <strike> Bard</strike> Summoner </p><p>Is that right? It *will* drop one of those five?</p></blockquote>Yes, assuming the quoted subclasses were grouped and killed Count Valdoon Kel'Novar. (Swapped Bard for Summoner in the quote)

[EvilIguana9]

<cite>Archonix wrote:</cite><blockquote>EvilIguana966 wrote: <blockquote>So in other words, you made the system worse than it was before.  I'm bummed out about this.  I was really hoping that I would have incentive to do instances since the chance a usable item would drop would be higher.  <b>What has happened instead is that the chance of seeing usable loot is still the same, except that now when a set piece you can't use would drop you can no longer call in a friend or guildy to loot it, but instead you are awarded some random piece of loot that chances are nobody is interested in</b>.  If the goal was to reduce the occurrence of people who didn't run the particular instance looting the reward, then you have succeeded.  If the goal was to make it so that the group running the instance has a better chance of getting something they can use, then the system fails horribly.  </blockquote>I fail to see what was described above would lead you to believe the bolded text was the case?  In the event the encounter you've defeated can not find any valid classes matching loot in it's table, it will roll a random piece from it's table, in which nothing would be different then how it operated in the past.  Nothing is stopping anyone from inviting a friend/guildmate/etc to join the group and loot that particular piece of loot. </blockquote> OK, I'll describe what I got from your post.  You said "In the event that no valid class is present, a random item will be selected (alts rejoice!). ".  Previously it worked like this: game rolls a 12 sided die, and then determines which of the 12 different class set pieces drops.  Now, the game rolls a 12 sided die, and if the number it gets doesn't match the class of any of the people in the group then it rolls again from a different loot table.  Theoretically, this could be better if that second loot table has stuff in it that people want.  However, I have seen no evidence that the alternate loot will be anything particularly desirable.  And while you used to be able to invite a person into the group to come pick up a piece of loot that nobody could use, you now no longer get that chance, instead being given that alternate item.  We were hoping that the 1 in 12 chance of getting a usable item was going to be reduced to 1 in 6, but it wasn't, you just removed a possible alternate way of getting it. 

[Ktok]

<cite>Archonix wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ktok wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just want to make sure I understand how this works...</p><p>If you take a group in to CoV, and that group has this makeup...</p><p>Guardian Templar Fury Swashie Brigand Conjurer</p><p>Then when the boss dies, since he *does* have an item for every class on his loot table, the class item will be either:</p><p>Warrior Cleric Druid Rogue <strike>Bard</strike> Summoner </p><p>Is that right? It *will* drop one of those five?</p></blockquote>Yes, assuming the quoted subclasses were grouped and killed Count Valdoon Kel'Novar. (Swapped Bard for Summoner in the quote) </blockquote>And this is why coffee is good... without it, I can't hold my own train of thought for 5 minutes. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Yes, I meant Summoner... ><

[Zenith]

<p>Personally I'm all for this change, ESP for legendary. I've done unrest a few dozen times now and almost everytime the conjy robe drops with no conjy present.</p><p>Instead of having a 1 of 12 chance to get my robe, now it's 1 of 6. Only way it could be better if the table generated verse who needs it, aka 2 people have their chest piece equiped or in their inventory thus it doesn't use their classes. But that's overly complicated.</p><p>Yeah I know it means now you can't get random X person to get the item (or to be honest most of these folks probably want to sell the loot) but that's part of the earning the set pieces. It's basically "easier" for a person to get them now as 1 of 6 is much better then before. Your guildie/friend/lover/person you want to sell to has a higher chance of getting it themselves now AND it encourages them to explore the content.</p>

[sah]

<cite>EvilIguana966 wrote:</cite><blockquote>OK, I'll describe what I got from your post.  You said "In the event that no valid class is present, a random item will be selected (alts rejoice!). ".  Previously it worked like this: game rolls a 12 sided die, and then determines which of the 12 different class set pieces drops.  Now, the game rolls a 12 sided die, and if the number it gets doesn't match the class of any of the people in the group then it rolls again from a different loot table.  Theoretically, this could be better if that second loot table has stuff in it that people want.  However, I have seen no evidence that the alternate loot will be anything particularly desirable.  And while you used to be able to invite a person into the group to come pick up a piece of loot that nobody could use, you now no longer get that chance, instead being given that alternate item.  We were hoping that the 1 in 12 chance of getting a usable item was going to be reduced to 1 in 6, but it wasn't, you just removed a possible alternate way of getting it.  </blockquote><p> I think the probability just gets adjusted...previously you had a 1/12 chance but if you go in with a group of 5 different classes you now have a 1/5 chance...</p><p>and for raid bosses which have other items in their loot table, all the set pieces get added up into one big number and if it rolls a set piece, then it does a 2nd roll based on classes present to determine exactly which set piece is dropped...if no classes are present on the 2nd roll, it'll just do a completely random roll on the set pieces that the mob can drop...</p><p>I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about but your chance of getting a set piece or a non-set piece item isn't changin...</p><p>I think.....</p>

[Itsumo]

Let me save Archonix the time of replying to you, Evil. With GU34, this change will only effect the chance of armor dropping from encounters that drop Legendary/Fabled Armor Sets in Echoes of Faydwer. In the event that no valid class is present, a random item will be selected (alts rejoice!). For those encounters that drop additional items other then armor sets; if an armor piece is rolled to drop, and no valid class is present, a random armor set piece will be selected. Please read that closely and note that it says "if an armor piece is rolled to drop and no valid class is present, a random armor <b>set </b>piece will drop." You stopped reading a little bit too soon.

[ravensvoi]

<cite>EvilIguana966 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Archonix wrote:</cite><blockquote>EvilIguana966 wrote: <blockquote>So in other words, you made the system worse than it was before.  I'm bummed out about this.  I was really hoping that I would have incentive to do instances since the chance a usable item would drop would be higher.  <b>What has happened instead is that the chance of seeing usable loot is still the same, except that now when a set piece you can't use would drop you can no longer call in a friend or guildy to loot it, but instead you are awarded some random piece of loot that chances are nobody is interested in</b>.  If the goal was to reduce the occurrence of people who didn't run the particular instance looting the reward, then you have succeeded.  If the goal was to make it so that the group running the instance has a better chance of getting something they can use, then the system fails horribly.  </blockquote>I fail to see what was described above would lead you to believe the bolded text was the case?  In the event the encounter you've defeated can not find any valid classes matching loot in it's table, it will roll a random piece from it's table, in which nothing would be different then how it operated in the past.  Nothing is stopping anyone from inviting a friend/guildmate/etc to join the group and loot that particular piece of loot. </blockquote> OK, I'll describe what I got from your post.  You said "In the event that no valid class is present, a random item will be selected (alts rejoice!). ".  Previously it worked like this: game rolls a 12 sided die, and then determines which of the 12 different class set pieces drops.  Now, the game rolls a 12 sided die, and if the number it gets doesn't match the class of any of the people in the group then it rolls again from a different loot table.  Theoretically, this could be better if that second loot table has stuff in it that people want.  However, I have seen no evidence that the alternate loot will be anything particularly desirable.  And while you used to be able to invite a person into the group to come pick up a piece of loot that nobody could use, you now no longer get that chance, instead being given that alternate item.  We were hoping that the 1 in 12 chance of getting a usable item was going to be reduced to 1 in 6, but it wasn't, you just removed a possible alternate way of getting it.  </blockquote> I have always been under the assumption it would be like this: Group A is made up of a warrior, cleric, and a wizard, and they kill Mob A.   Mob A drops warrior, cleric and bard loot.  Since no bards are present in the group those items are taken out of the loot table and it is a random roll on the warrior and cleric loot only to find out what is dropped. Group A (same configuration) goes and kills Mob B.  Mob B only drops items for bards and summoners, so then it's a random roll as per normal. I'm sure a red name will correct me if I misunderstood something.

[DerDrac]

We really need to form opinions from in game events and not speculation. Though i agree that this could be a major problem, i cant help but think what would have happened if they hadn't announced it at all. Suddenly you start getting the armor you wanted... would you complain?

[NightrunnerX]

<p>I don't know why this is so hard to understand.</p><p>The loot system determines what classes are in the group. It then rolls the drop based upon those classes. If there is a minimum number of classes present the roll is completely random but still from the same loot table, not a different table. </p>

[samejima]

<p>!</p>

[Ganlu]

<cite>Archonix wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ktok wrote:</cite><blockquote>Example</blockquote>Yes, assuming the quoted subclasses were grouped and killed Count Valdoon Kel'Novar. (Swapped Bard for Summoner in the quote) </blockquote> So in that case, what wouuld happen if there are only 3 people in the group?  I know you said there are mechanics in place to prevent working the system, so I'm assuming it needs some kind of minimum # of different classes before it will work how you mentioned.

[sah]

<cite>Ganluan wrote:</cite><blockquote>So in that case, what wouuld happen if there are only 3 people in the group?  I know you said there are mechanics in place to prevent working the system, so I'm assuming it needs some kind of minimum # of different classes before it will work how you mentioned. </blockquote> Hehe, I don't think the devs are going to tell everyone what the minimum is...you'll need to figure that out for yourself...  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[shadowgate]

Ganluan wrote:   <blockquote><cite>Archonix wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ktok wrote:</cite><blockquote>Example</blockquote>Yes, assuming the quoted subclasses were grouped and killed Count Valdoon Kel'Novar. (Swapped Bard for Summoner in the quote) </blockquote> So in that case, what wouuld happen if there are only 3 people in the group?  I know you said there are mechanics in place to prevent working the system, so I'm assuming it needs some kind of minimum # of different classes before it will work how you mentioned. </blockquote> I would guess it is something like 3 or 4 different classes. Just guessing 3 since the normal group is going to have at least a tank, a healer, and a DPS.

[Isard]

<p>I'm not confused by this post.</p><p>It seems what Archonix is saying is that the game will try and match loot to classes in the encounter.  If it cannot then it will roll a random piece from its loot table.  </p><p>Don't forget this includes raid zones does it not?  And some mobs drop items that not all classes can use, do they not?  </p><p>So in the example of CoV and the Count dropping class armor for all classes it will try and drop a piece for a class in the group.  If a druid piece drops and the druid already has it then its up for grabs.  If the mob doesn't drop items that are usable by any class in the group then it would be a random drop.  What am I missing here?  There is no mention of an <i>alternative</i> loot table anywhere.</p>

[NightrunnerX]

Thats because there never was any mention of an alternative loot table.

[Noaani]

<cite>EvilIguana966 wrote:</cite><blockquote>And while you used to be able to invite a person into the group to come pick up a piece of loot that nobody could use, you now no longer get that chance, instead being given that alternate item. </blockquote><p>What exactly makes you think there is no way you can bring another character in to loot an item if no one in the group wants what drops?</p><p>What, do you think that if the game can't find an item that someone in the group can equip, its just going to pick a random item and shove it in a random group members backpack?</p><p>Here is what I see...</p><p>A group goes in, they kill a boss. The game rolls and determines that a piece of set gear is going to drop, it then looks at the classes, looks at the loot, takes what gear the classes can equip and rolls on that list to see what drops. In the event of there being no item on the loot table for that mob that any of the classes present can equip, the game will then roll on the full loot table of the mob. The game will not look at wether or not a given member of the game *has* the item in question, rather, it will just look at wether there is someone in the group that can equip the item.</p><p>Should the item that does drop not be an upgrade to a member of the group/raid, you are still able to zone in an alt/friend/buyer to loot the item, just as you are now.</p>

[Iseabeil]

<p>The way I understand it, this random event thing wont really occur in group situations. The bosses droping legendary set pieces have all 12 pieces in their loot table. The issue comes with the fabled set pieces, as most mobs dropping set pieces doesnt have all 24 classes in their loot table. Say this mr Epic mob has a loot table with 15 items, 5 of them bein set pieces, but none of those 5 classes are in the raid. In this case the mechanics cant select one of those pieces due to participation, and thus switches over to random. I could be wrong, but that looks like the logical explentation to me.</p>

[Lleinen]

<p>sucks if you have to sit out 1 person for a healer in a raid...i still think it should either be mold or judge what people HAVE ON already</p><p>/shrug</p>

[Drodin]

We had pretty good success with this update tonight in Inner Sanctum, or about as good as to be expected.  1 piece went to an alt and another transmuted, but imo it was one of the better nights in there. I can really see how this will be good for pvp raids, but otherwise I dont see how it can be anything but worse for the redunancy issue, which imo is a bigger problem for pve than stuff dropping with nobody to pick it up

[sah]

Drodin@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>We had pretty good success with this update tonight in Inner Sanctum, or about as good as to be expected.  1 piece went to an alt and another transmuted, but imo it was one of the better nights in there. I can really see how this will be good for pvp raids, but otherwise I dont see how it can be anything but worse for the redunancy issue, which imo is a bigger problem for pve than stuff dropping with nobody to pick it up </blockquote> well imo, this change was primarily addressed towards the legendary set pieces where this is a HUGE improvement and is only a minor improvement to raids...a dev did post earlier in this thread that they are currently working on the duplicate drops issue though...

[Katanari]

Drodin@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>We had pretty good success with this update tonight in Inner Sanctum, or about as good as to be expected.  1 piece went to an alt and another transmuted, but imo it was one of the better nights in there. I can really see how this will be good for pvp raids, but otherwise I dont see how it can be anything but worse for the redunancy issue, which imo is a bigger problem for pve than stuff dropping with nobody to pick it up </blockquote><p> Well I am glad you had good success with it. Last night my guildies and I ran through OOB and at the end the items that were not specific to the classes in the group; rogue boots dropped and there was no rogue in the group.</p><p>Granted I could possibly not understand the whole concept of this new update, but it seems flawed so far. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[EvilIguana9]

<cite>Itsumo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let me save Archonix the time of replying to you, Evil. With GU34, this change will only effect the chance of armor dropping from encounters that drop Legendary/Fabled Armor Sets in Echoes of Faydwer. In the event that no valid class is present, a random item will be selected (alts rejoice!). For those encounters that drop additional items other then armor sets; if an armor piece is rolled to drop, and no valid class is present, a random armor set piece will be selected. Please read that closely and note that it says "if an armor piece is rolled to drop and no valid class is present, a random armor <b>set </b>piece will drop." You stopped reading a little bit too soon.</blockquote> You are taking that quote out of context.  You completely ignored the conditional statement "For those encounters that drop additional items other then armor sets; " which indicates that there are special circumstances where it works a bit differently.  I know of no encounter where the boss drops only set pieces with no other loot available on the table, so I had to assume that statement was referring to certain encounters where the set piece is not guaranteed.  Zones like OOB, unrest, and CoV are guaranteed to have a set piece drop on the final boss.  Some zones like Acadechism have the set piece as a POSSIBLE drop on the boss' loot table.   Archonix's conditional statement either refers to these situations or he presented the information inaccurately.  Also when he says that " In the event that no valid class is present" he has to be referring to a point in time after the armor set piece has been chosen.  This is because it is impossible to have no valid class present before you roll on an armor piece because there is an armor piece for every class.  Therefore he MUST mean that a random item is selected if the armor piece chosen by the RNG is not matched to a valid class, and the random item mustr be referring to an item other than an armor set piece because otherwise the new system would be basically the same as the old.  My assumptions are based entirely on logical conclusions drawn from Archonix's post.  If they are incorrectly representing the system in game then he should clarify. 

[Prrasha]

<cite>Archonix wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ktok wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just want to make sure I understand how this works...</p><p>If you take a group in to CoV, and that group has this makeup...</p><p>Guardian Templar Fury Swashie Brigand Conjurer</p><p>Then when the boss dies, since he *does* have an item for every class on his loot table, the class item will be either:</p><p>Warrior Cleric Druid Rogue <strike> Bard</strike> Summoner </p><p>Is that right? It *will* drop one of those five?</p></blockquote>Yes, assuming the quoted subclasses were grouped and killed Count Valdoon Kel'Novar. (Swapped Bard for Summoner in the quote) </blockquote>Nope, then it's bugged.  We went in and killed Valdoon last night with: Paladin Guardian Warden Fury Mystic ...and a Wizard who went LD before the Valdoon fight (how's that for a solid group?) What dropped from Valdoon? a nice pair of no-trade Conjuror/Necromancer arms. There was a conjuror in the group earlier in the night, but he had dropped from the group before we even zoned in to CoV... he was never in the zone with us. Bah.

[thebunny]

<cite>EvilIguana966 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Itsumo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let me save Archonix the time of replying to you, Evil. With GU34, this change will only effect the chance of armor dropping from encounters that drop Legendary/Fabled Armor Sets in Echoes of Faydwer. In the event that no valid class is present, a random item will be selected (alts rejoice!). For those encounters that drop additional items other then armor sets; if an armor piece is rolled to drop, and no valid class is present, a random armor set piece will be selected. Please read that closely and note that it says "if an armor piece is rolled to drop and no valid class is present, a random armor <b>set </b>piece will drop." You stopped reading a little bit too soon.</blockquote> You are taking that quote out of context.  You completely ignored the conditional statement "For those encounters that drop additional items other then armor sets; " which indicates that there are special circumstances where it works a bit differently.  I know of no encounter where the boss drops only set pieces with no other loot available on the table, so I had to assume that statement was referring to certain encounters where the set piece is not guaranteed.  Zones like OOB, unrest, and CoV are guaranteed to have a set piece drop on the final boss.  Some zones like Acadechism have the set piece as a POSSIBLE drop on the boss' loot table.   Archonix's conditional statement either refers to these situations or he presented the information inaccurately.  Also when he says that " In the event that no valid class is present" he has to be referring to a point in time after the armor set piece has been chosen.  <b>This is because it is impossible to have no valid class present before you roll on an armor piece because there is an armor piece for every class</b>.  Therefore he MUST mean that a random item is selected if the armor piece chosen by the RNG is not matched to a valid class, and the random item mustr be referring to an item other than an armor set piece because otherwise the new system would be basically the same as the old.  My assumptions are based entirely on logical conclusions drawn from Archonix's post.  If they are incorrectly representing the system in game then he should clarify.  </blockquote><p>Correct me if I am mistaken, but I believe the fabled set pieces drop off of different mobs for different classes.  In other words, there is not one mob that drops the fabled boots for every class.  Assuming that is the case, then it is not impossible to have no valid class present before rolling on an armor piece - you could have killed a mob that drops the class item for a particular set of classes and not have any members of those classes in your raid.  I believe that is the purpose of his distinction there.</p><p>Regardless, Archonix has done a pretty good job of clarifying several posts up.  Based off of his latest post, it's pretty clear to me that as long as the set piece for classes that are present in the group/raid are on that mob's loot table, then one of those items will drop.  If not, then a random set piece will drop instead.</p>

[thebunny]

<cite>Prrasha wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nope, then it's bugged.  We went in and killed Valdoon last night with: Paladin Guardian Warden Fury Mystic ...and a Wizard who went LD before the Valdoon fight (how's that for a solid group?) What dropped from Valdoon? a nice pair of no-trade Conjuror/Necromancer arms. There was a conjuror in the group earlier in the night, but he had dropped from the group before we even zoned in to CoV... he was never in the zone with us. Bah. </blockquote><p> There is a possibility that you didn't meet the minimum requirements for class distinction in the group.  I believe Archonix stated earlier that there are safeguards in place to prevent working the system, which I presume means that you have to have a minimum number of distinct classes in the group.  Since Warden and Fury have the same legendary item drop, you only had 4 distinct classes in your group as far as the loot table is concerned, and maybe 5 is the minimum.</p><p>Honestly it would be silly to me if that were the case - I could see 3 or even 4 being reasonable, but 5 seems a bit too limiting - but just wanted to point out that possibility.  Otherwise I'd agree, it's not quite working correctly.</p>

[EvilIguana9]

<cite>thebunny wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Prrasha wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nope, then it's bugged.  We went in and killed Valdoon last night with: Paladin Guardian Warden Fury Mystic ...and a Wizard who went LD before the Valdoon fight (how's that for a solid group?) What dropped from Valdoon? a nice pair of no-trade Conjuror/Necromancer arms. There was a conjuror in the group earlier in the night, but he had dropped from the group before we even zoned in to CoV... he was never in the zone with us. Bah. </blockquote><p> There is a possibility that you didn't meet the minimum requirements for class distinction in the group.  I believe Archonix stated earlier that there are safeguards in place to prevent working the system, which I presume means that you have to have a minimum number of distinct classes in the group.  Since Warden and Fury have the same legendary item drop, you only had 4 distinct classes in your group as far as the loot table is concerned, and maybe 5 is the minimum.</p><p>Honestly it would be silly to me if that were the case - I could see 3 or even 4 being reasonable, but 5 seems a bit too limiting - but just wanted to point out that possibility.  Otherwise I'd agree, it's not quite working correctly.</p></blockquote> I'm not entirely convinced we need to prevent that type of working the system.  Assuming the system works like you are suggesting, if I were to run an instance with 6 crusaders, I would be guaranteed a crusader set piece, but would have to roll against 5 other crusaders.  Compare that against a group with 6 different classes, and I still have the same chance of getting an item because while I automatically win a crusader piece, their are 5 other classes that are influencing the roll towards a different class piece.  The only possible problem arises when cherry-picking groupmates of the same class who already have the item and thus won't roll against you, but I'd say that's a rare enough situation not to be a major consideration for the loot system, not to mention the fact that it is balanced against a number of negative factors.  Specifically, running an instance with a single class is almost always far less efficient that doing it with a good mix, and people are generally less willing to do an instance when they already have the item they want. 

[Yarginis]

Also tested last night, and even though the update does not say so, this appears to only apply to the "no-trade" pieces of the set. Zerker friend & I have been duoing the Kaladim ring for months trying to get our hands to drop (yeah, our luck sucks) and were hoping that maybe with this change we would finally get them... Nope we get the Cleric gloves. : I know since they are tradeable it doesn't necessarily need to apply to those pieces, but since the update note didn't state it applied to no-trade parts only it would have been nice to have the actuality match the statement. (Maybe the statement in the update notes could be adjusted to specify "no-trade pieces only"?)

[sah]

<cite>Yarginista wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also tested last night, and even though the update does not say so, this appears to only apply to the "no-trade" pieces of the set. Zerker friend & I have been duoing the Kaladim ring for months trying to get our hands to drop (yeah, our luck sucks) and were hoping that maybe with this change we would finally get them... Nope we get the Cleric gloves. : I know since they are tradeable it doesn't necessarily need to apply to those pieces, but since the update note didn't state it applied to no-trade parts only it would have been nice to have the actuality match the statement. (Maybe the statement in the update notes could be adjusted to specify "no-trade pieces only"?) </blockquote> Actually, that's not necessarily true...As stated above, there is a minimum number of classes that need to be present for the new loot rules to apply...