wisdom line vs secondary item

[Pumancat]

<p> I'm looking at my AA wisdom line and they all have that secondary slot be empty to gain benefit.</p><p>My question, do the benefits of this line outweigh the benefits of having a symbol or secondary item with good resists and stats and possibly a proc?</p><p>I play on pvp server and cannot find where it would be better to run around with one of my primary slots empty.</p><p>Nyarlath - 70 wizard</p><p>Venekor server</p>

[Mareth]

Just read what you get from the line, and compare it to what an item in that slot could get you, the answer should be obvious pretty fast (:

[Ammem]

Yes Wisdom line is worth it. One of my Wizards is on a PvP server. Wisdom line can do miracles in PvP.

[ThyMajesty]

<p>i think this depends alot on your playstyle</p><p> i know many wizards, which focus more on constant dps for long-duration-fights in raids, they are specced STR-AGI in kos, an fire + icelines in EOF-tree</p><p>the other spec (which i did) is in eof power-line w/ manaburn + agi and wis in kos-tree</p><p>you get more base-dmg an freehand sorcery is handy with your big nukes, especially for manaburn, which never can be resisted, but can't crit for catalysm (i think i read that somewhere, can't prove that by myself)</p><p>however... with the new macro-system its very easy to empty your secondary for FH, if you insist on additional 20orso int + some resis</p><p>but for me...i do not really need that ... with powerline, i dont really have an issue with mana...and above certain int-lvl more stats on this will not result in significant more DMG</p><p> for the loss of the resis if have some wis from and a minor ward from the line</p><p>so in the end:</p><p> if you focus on solo/pvp/ocassional grp? go agi/wis and powerline + whatever you like</p><p>you want to focus more on raiding oder constand XP-grinding? try str-agi + fire&ice-lines</p><p>this is just my point of view, hope it helps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>^v^ Thy ^v^</p>

[Pumancat]

<p> So basically our scorcerer tree only gives us the effectiveness if we use wis/agi or wis/int ?</p>

[SacDaddy420]

what?

[valkyrja]

I used to be speced WIS/AGI, i changed to STR/AGI.  I found it helped my DPS, especially since I am trying to go for a high crit percentage .  I can burn for a very long time on raids. Really it just comes down to a matter of playstyle I think.

[faithintsu]

To me there was no real secondary item that I could find (not 70 yet) that is worth it. You can maybe get a few extra points on resist and maybe 10 more in INT - but nothing worth it in my honest opinion.

[ThyMajesty]

<cite>Pumancat wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> So basically our scorcerer tree only gives us the effectiveness if we use wis/agi or wis/int ?</p></blockquote><p> where did you get this from?</p><p>again, popular builds are: </p><p>- STR + AGI in sorcerer-tree & fire + iceline in wizard-tree</p><p>or </p><p>- AGI + WIS in sorcerer & powerline + whatever (often iceline) in wizard</p><p>there are other specs too, sure...but these are the two specs i think majority of players uses</p><p>coming back to the topic, this was just a quick review, where the WIS-line does make sense for one and for me the combination of wisdom-line+ MB-line perfectly suits my playstyle</p><p>there are very nice items out there, though...but i wonder if its worth giving up personality and maybe effectiveness for squeezing out the last 10,45 orso DPS? i do not think that</p><p>in theory builds including the WIS-line will not be ALWAYS be the TOP, although there arent (imo CAN'T be)  real maths about that, because this depends too much on players ability to put theory in practice. So in the end, for me, the only question is, whats most comfortable to ME, because i only will perform MY very best with setups that feel fine with <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Falcogen]

<p>Pretty sure the popular lines are</p><p> Str - Wis</p><p> Agi - Wis</p><p> Anyone using str agi will probably have the benefit of double regen and awesome dps gear otherwise it wouldn't be worth it.</p>

[valkyrja]

Fringy@Guk wrote: <blockquote>To me there was no real secondary item that I could find (not 70 yet) that is worth it. You can maybe get a few extra points on resist and maybe 10 more in INT - but nothing worth it in my honest opinion. </blockquote>Blood of the Brood Watcher Necro Orb Misty Protector Sage Book Just to name a few that spring to mind.

[Shayalil]

Not that its helpful to the matter at hand but I parse about the same in raid with agi/str line ice shape fireshape with the other wizzys with manaburn and freehand catalyst line we are all about geared the same raid all zones and are always on top i think str/agi holds up against any other setup if u have the luxury of being in a caster grp in raid.plus i enjoy being able to have all my gear slots full at all times

[daray]

<cite>valkyrja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I used to be speced WIS/AGI, i changed to STR/AGI.  I found it helped my DPS, especially since I am trying to go for a high crit percentage .  I can burn for a very long time on raids. Really it just comes down to a matter of playstyle I think. </blockquote> Actually, if you sit down and work out the maths on all your KoS AAs, you will find that WIS/AGI will give you a noticeably larger dps increase than any other combination. When they revamped KoS AAs, i switched from WIS/STR to WIS/AGI and immediately noticed a 200+ dps jump in all my parses. While I appreciate that your comparison here is between the WIS and STR lines, you will actually be sacrificing dps by going with the STR/AGI setup (instead of WIS/AGI). Let me explain briefly ... STR = Spell Expertise = 12% crits at rank 8 (if i remember right) ... this will give you around a 4% increase to your dps (a crited spell is capped at 1.3 * the max damage on the stated range of your spell - before debuffs and other factors are taken into account) WIS = Brainstorm = 8% increase to base damage ... this will give you around an 8% increase to your dps. While an 8% increase is better than 4%, it is also worth taking a quick look at the other abilities in both lines. Freehand and Catalyst are very closely matched that you can pretty much cross both off as being of equal benefit. This leaves you with the wisdom line also giving you sagacity (12% power save) over the STR line - which is therefore an additional benefit. If you ever come to fighting extended fights (avatars/contested mayong for example), you will quickly learn to appreicate the cheaper power cost on all of your spells. Also, with the spell haste enhancements of the AGI line, sagacity does somewhat help to balance out that increased power cost. Anyways, hope that somewhat helps ... EDIT: To the OP - I do realise you are playing on a PvP server - the above is more beneficial to someone who plays PvE. Having said that, i guess you can take something away from the WIS vs. STR debate, since you need a second line to tie in with your STA line.

[Mitch0]

Hallo Midwizzis, I whant to join the STR/AGI Threat. I played many Raids with different Specs (WIS/STR, AGI/WIS, and now STR/AGI). The AGI/WIS Combi worked very well and made a good DPS. But now im playing with the AGI/STR to keep the Arm of Mithaniel in secondary and Fitzpitzels misty protector in distance. Because i whant to keep the benefits of both superb Items. I hope the the dmg proc of the misty protector will neutralize the missing base damge from the WIS tree. Having the Unrest wand (+8 Base Damage on every hostile spell) equipped gives me back some dps, i hope. If someone of you has some more expirience with this setup. Please post it in here.

[valkyrja]

<cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>valkyrja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I used to be speced WIS/AGI, i changed to STR/AGI.  I found it helped my DPS, especially since I am trying to go for a high crit percentage .  I can burn for a very long time on raids. Really it just comes down to a matter of playstyle I think. </blockquote> Actually, if you sit down and work out the maths on all your KoS AAs, you will find that WIS/AGI will give you a noticeably larger dps increase than any other combination. When they revamped KoS AAs, i switched from WIS/STR to WIS/AGI and immediately noticed a 200+ dps jump in all my parses. While I appreciate that your comparison here is between the WIS and STR lines, you will actually be sacrificing dps by going with the STR/AGI setup (instead of WIS/AGI). Let me explain briefly ... STR = Spell Expertise = 12% crits at rank 8 (if i remember right) ... this will give you around a 4% increase to your dps (a crited spell is capped at 1.3 * the max damage on the stated range of your spell - before debuffs and other factors are taken into account) WIS = Brainstorm = 8% increase to base damage ... this will give you around an 8% increase to your dps. While an 8% increase is better than 4%, it is also worth taking a quick look at the other abilities in both lines. Freehand and Catalyst are very closely matched that you can pretty much cross both off as being of equal benefit. This leaves you with the wisdom line also giving you sagacity (12% power save) over the STR line - which is therefore an additional benefit. If you ever come to fighting extended fights (avatars/contested mayong for example), you will quickly learn to appreicate the cheaper power cost on all of your spells. Also, with the spell haste enhancements of the AGI line, sagacity does somewhat help to balance out that increased power cost. Anyways, hope that somewhat helps ... EDIT: To the OP - I do realise you are playing on a PvP server - the above is more beneficial to someone who plays PvE. Having said that, i guess you can take something away from the WIS vs. STR debate, since you need a second line to tie in with your STA line. </blockquote>I used to be specced AGI/WIS.  When I switched to STR/AGI I got a DPS bump.  IMO, they are both very good, though I think STR/AGI benefits more from good gear, especially those that have procs and + to crit.  I crit, on average 22% of my casts, and with the amount of proc gear I have going off it makes a big difference.  But really, thats what I love about the sorcerer tree, there is no one "best" build.  Depending on your setup/playstyle, you have a choice. Unlike some classes.

[Azmoran]

<p>Well I used to be STR/WIS now I'm AGI/WIS. And got a great DPS boost from that change. I don't possible see how STR/AGI will give you the DPS in the long run. The end ability of WIS screams long term dmg output with the lower amount of mana needed so you can cast more spells. Without having to do anything to regain mana.</p><p> Anyways, just my thoughts. Do whatever makes you happy.</p>

[valkyrja]

I can burn away all day long, which was my main concern when I dropped the WIS line. Also, I think the 4.06% increase from crits is a vast understatement.  Yes, I understand that that figure is a decent estimate, but what it doesn't take into consideration is that spells that take longer to cast, tend to crit more often, coincidentally, these are all of our big damage spells. Secondly, you're not taking into consideration Catalyst, sice it allows you to always crit on your big guns, it skews the percentage even higher. I'm going to begin taking a look at various raid parses and see what kind of actual damage increase I'm getting from crits.

[daray]

<cite>valkyrja wrote:</cite><blockquote>... but what it doesn't take into consideration is that spells that take longer to cast, tend to crit more often, coincidentally, these are all of our big damage spells. Secondly, you're not taking into consideration Catalyst, sice it allows you to always crit on your big guns, it skews the percentage even higher. </blockquote> 1) The casting time on your spells has no impact on their chance to crit. The chance for each of your spells or damage procs to crit is calculated purely against your spell crit %. Basically what I am saying here is that unlike proc rates, your chance to crit on any given spell or damage proc is NOT normalized against the casting time of that spell. 2) If anything, freehand sorcery from the wisdom line is more useful than catalyst, especially with the amount of crit gear that you can get in this expansion. While individually both will cause a similar increase in the damage of the one spell you chose to use it with, choosing the wisdom line (freehand) over the strength line will still give you the added possibility of criting the spell in addition for a much larger hit. And lets not forget that if you are manaburn speced, you can freehand it, but you can not catalyst it since it can't be crited. And as somewhat of a side-note to this (since i mentioned procs above), proc rates (item procs included) are calculated off the base casting times of spells. Therefore any spell haste enhancements that you do have will cause you to proc them more. With the new item effects that you are seeing (eg robe of alkabor, plasma wand, cloak of unrest as some proc examples), spell haste enhancements will allow you to have these temporary buffs up more often (and squeeze in more spells in their duration).

[Tuttiax]

For most of KoS/EoF I've been spec'd str/agi, and have been very happy. I come in here from time to time to read up on what other people are doing. I'm not a raider, but I enjoy reading the various opinions cause occasionally, I do find myself out and about. As I said earlier, I was extremely happy with the str/agi spec. However in the last few raids, I've been literally fighting to keep up dps-wise. I'm great coming out of the block and doing respectable spurt damage, but on the longer fights, I couldn't hang. People would overtake me in the parse down the stretch. So I've been reading the str/agi vs agi/wis debate, and both sides make great arguments. I think the wizard spec is probably one of the most well rounded specs out there and the differences in opinions help supports that. It's very complimentary to individual playing styles. Anyway we were doing a Temple of Scale run on Saturday so I respec'd to agi/wis just to see if there would be any noticeable difference. WOW....just wow. For every encounter if I wasn't the top on the list, I was in the top three. The reason I liked running with it in ToS is because it starts out with non-epic short fights and gradually increases up to the epics. It was great to see a variety of situational encounters from the short spurt damage to the long burns. Very rarely did I run into a power situation. It was amazing. There was a noticeable increase in the base damage of each spell...each spell. Popping freehand became a given instead of wondering whether catalyst was effective or not. So while I'm not as scientific as alot of people, I can say for practical application, you had me a *boom*. Another thing that was interesting: I was down in the third group. We had a paly up there as the MT, who is nicely geared up in equipment and abilities. I'm guessing the paly had strapped amend on someone up there to help with hate as usual. We also had a paly down in my group, and I asked him to pop me with amend as well. I could actually pull the mob off the MT and onto the paly in my group despite giving the MT plenty of time to establish agro. Incredible. The only downside I've seen with wis/agi is I have to relearn hate management. I now have more muscle than I'm used to working with and pulling mobs off tanks ain't necessarily a good thing. Later that night in MCastle I got in trouble cause I kept pulling off of the zerk. I was still used to the casting style I had at str/agi.