Smite Evil in PVP

[Kaleyen]

Now before I start to go into detail about my arguments to get the PVP version of the spell changed I want to state a few things. When reading this thread try to keep an open mind and not have a predetermined response because I am in fact an exiled Paladin.  I don't want this to turn into a debate of good or evil or what SOE determines to be about good vs evil.  Keep in mind that my arguments are with PVP in mind and not PVE. I don't expect everyone to agree with my point of view, however if you read this with an open mind as stated above I'm sure you'll see that I do have some valid/key points. I realize I have posted on this in the past but the posts turned into a morality debate on what the poster felt was the definition of good and evil, I am not looking to debate that as posted previously. Now to the guts of the post... A few updates back Smite Evil was fixed to actually work in PVP, as previously it wasn't working after an update that went live sometime back in November.  The previous version of the PVP spell was limited to specific classes, they were classes that could only be tied to Qeynos that the spell would be ineffective against.  While the latest update on this spell fixed for PVP content it also added to the restrictions, as well as class restrictions it also added a faction restriction. I understand that other classes have abilities and spells that have restrictions on them, I do not believe that a class specific end line AA ability should be this restricted. My suggestion would be to take one or the other restriction, not both.  So either have it limited on classes or limited on factions, but not both.

[Killque]

<p>So you want more.....?</p><p>Why not just get it out of the way, and ask for it to be irresistable, and have a 50% crit chance too..</p>

[Kaleyen]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So you want more.....?</p><p>Why not just get it out of the way, and ask for it to be irresistable, and have a 50% crit chance too..</p></blockquote>Huh? I'm assuming you didn't read my post and just hit the submit button or just aren't fully grasping what I am saying.

[Bozidar]

Spell out exactly what the problem is, and what you want.  Keep in mind that this isn't a class ability, it's one you CHOOSE to obtain.

[Bozidar]

Liluk@Venekor wrote: <blockquote> I'm assuming you didn't read my post and just hit the submit button or just aren't fully grasping what I am saying. </blockquote> I read your post and am having a problem understanding what you're saying.  Spell it out for us, please.

[Killque]

You are wanting these abilities tailored to your class as an exile... dont you think that is asking too much?

[Groma]

His end AA ability for a paladin requires that the paladin be aligned with Qeynos, and not exile, if i'm understanding what his post is trying to say.  The same ability also will only work on certain "evil" only classes.

[Groma]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are wanting these abilities tailored to your class as an exile... dont you think that is asking too much?</blockquote>I don't think he wants it tailored to exiles, i think he wants it NOT to be tailored to any alignment.  Last i checked, no other class had an AA ability that required you to be in Q or FP and can only be used against one alignment.  This would be the exception, and i don't think it should be this way.

[Bozidar]

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>His end AA ability for a paladin requires that the paladin be aligned with Qeynos, and not exile, if i'm understanding what his post is trying to say.  The same ability also will only work on certain "evil" only classes. </blockquote> I thought it was changed to work on any exile or any player from freeport.

[Groma]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>His end AA ability for a paladin requires that the paladin be aligned with Qeynos, and not exile, if i'm understanding what his post is trying to say.  The same ability also will only work on certain "evil" only classes. </blockquote> I thought it was changed to work on any exile or any player from freeport.</blockquote>I know nothing of paladins, that is only what i gathered from his post, so if i'm wrong, he will have to clarify it.

[Kaleyen]

Alright, this is a class specific end line AA ability. Before it was restricted on what kind of classes it would hit, it worked as such in PVP.  Then with the Frostfell update back in Nov. 06" it stopped working in PVP. Recently (within the past few months) it was fixed for PVP, however with the fix they put in another restriction, an alignment restriction. Now some might say to just chose another AA line and that other classes received weak AA lines so to just deal with it.  But that's not really solving anything with that kind of mentality.  What I'm stating is that for a class specific end line AA ability it's too restricted, I propose lifting one of those restrictions (not both, just one) for PVP combat.

[Bozidar]

<p>ok.. twice i've asked you to spell it out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  You're trying to avoid saying what the actual problem is?  Your communication skill.. honestly.. they suck.  It's like listening to Yogi Berra talk about Aflac.</p><p>What are the two restrictions?  I'm not going to guess.. s..p..e..l..l  i..t   o..u..t.  Please <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Kaleyen]

Restrictions are class and alignment...I thought I said that in my two posts? It cannot hit any class that can only be created in qeynos (templar, ranger, mystic, paladin, etc, etc.) It cannot hit qeynos or kelethin citizens. And if one checks against the other it doesn't hit...IE Exiled Templar Now I don't claim to be an expert in other classes, so if another class that has an end line class specific aa line please speak up.  Also speak how it's restricted IE class, faction or both.

[Bozidar]

Liluk@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Restrictions are class and alignment...I thought I said that in my two posts? It cannot hit any class that can only be created in qeynos (templar, ranger, mystic, paladin, etc, etc.) It cannot hit qeynos or kelethin citizens.</blockquote><p>Ok, thank you for making it clear.  Saying that "restrictions are class and alignment" don't really make things clear <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I agree with you, one of the restrictions should be lifted.  I think that it should be the first one.  If your exile templar is exile.. HAMMER away.  He's not "good" any longer.  </p><p>Personally, i think you should be able to nail anyone that's not a Qeynos citizen.  Kelethin is supposedly "neutral".  Ok, be neutral, but take a hit from Smite Evil too, if you don't want to declare yourself as goody-two-shoes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>As for someone else having an end-line AA ablility that's that restricted, I don't know.  I know a great many of them suck for pvp, and this is just another on the top of the pile if they don't fix it.</p>

[Magnis]

<p>Yes I do agree, Smite Evil should not in any conditions hit a good aligned class/fraction.  Once you exile, you are giving up you alignment and choosing to head toward the path of evil, or towards the side of good. Exile is not a fraction as far as I know .An exile cannot declare itself totally good or evil.  So a templar that decides to betray has chosen the path away from the light(good), binding his essence towards  darkness(evil), having proof of evil in him.  Which in any case any class born and raise in Freeport cannot erase its roots, and can only be redeemed once he proven himself, that he has embraced lifestyle of the just.  So this AA ability should smite any proof of evil, regardless of how miniscule it might be. </p><p>Spoken like a true Paladin. Im only 17.</p>

[Wytie]

<p>I would like to say this from a SK stand point if the [Removed for Content] pally can hit me with it....  He should be able to hit everyone else <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>pallys are a bit [Removed for Content] already when it comes to pvp, why in the heck should going exle [Removed for Content] them even more. </p><p>Basicly this is the only class in the whole game that as soon as they go exile they loose some of there effectiveness against there foes. Maybe from a SOE stand point its a tradeoff maybee there thinking as part of the game lore that an exiled pally should be lucky that you can even use that spell at all and not hurt urself. dono</p><p>But all in all IMO if this spell is gona be limited it shouldnt be class limited, <b><u>only factional and definatly not both</u></b>. Reasoh being is it gives Q based classes and advantage to exile pallys and no one else....  thats not ballenced why should a good exile have better chance at beating a exiled pally than an evil based exile. example</p><p>exile pally < good pally</p><p>all other classes = all other classes exiled of equal class  </p><p>example SK= exiled SK , Monk= exiled Monk ect   only the exiled pally gets pooped on I hate to say but booo on SOE <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Ameniel]

<cite>Sanser wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes I do agree, Smite Evil should not in any conditions hit a good aligned class/<span style="color: #ff0000">fraction</span>.... Exile is not a <span style="color: #ff0000">fraction </span>as far as I know...</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, those [I cannot control my vocabulary] fractions...</p><p><img src="http://www.gcschool.org/pages/program/math/images/fractions.gif" border="0"></p>

[Aeg]

its called smite evil for a reason. if it smited good too it wouldent make much sense.

[lavasoul]

Don't think any other classes has an end AA line with 2 restriction on it, well none of the ones that I know of. Having a class and faction restriction does seem abit much. Since its called Smite Evil, the class restriction should be removed and only have the faction restriction remain. I'm a paladin from Qeynos and my Smite Evil hit all of Freeport classes but only half of the classes in Exile because of the class restriction.

[Gagla]

Being an exiled Templar that worships Mithaniel Marr, it might seem odd to myself to be struck down as evil.

[Denzei]

Gaglaak@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Being an exiled Templar that worships Mithaniel Marr, it might seem odd to myself to be struck down as evil.</blockquote><p> [Removed for Content], can exiles worship a "good alligned" god? I thought it was Neutral gods only. Anyways I totally agree, it sux that I can't hit all my "evil" enemies with my Smite "evil". I find exiles as evil as I do find fp's.</p><div align="center">Change this SoE! remove the stupid class restriction. Don't give Paladins even more downsides....</div>

[Geoff]

<p>imo, both restrictions should be removed.  Pally's are allowed to exile, and once they are exiled, both factions are "evil" in their beliefs.  Semantics aside, if you want to play the lore/rp card, the pally is still gettings his spells while exiled, and regardless if qeynosians are "good", they're still non-believers.  Consider the exilied Paladin a fanatical believer, punishing all regardless of their faction.  There were many templars of the crusades that did evil things in the name of god...why in a fantasy game is this not possible?  If paladins can't use one of their AA's against their original faction, that's as silly as an  exiled assassin not being able to decap FP'ers, an exiled Necro can't Lifeburn FP'ers, an exiled Ranger can't snipershot Q's, etc etc...  </p>

[Gagla]

<p>Paladins aren't the only class that gets worse in exile. Remember this is an AA spec. As a templar, I lost my ability to Odyssey. Levelling to 70 I loved being able to 'Call' every 3 minutes or port friends who had their calls down. As a Paladin I'm sure you can admit your ability didn't change at all when you exiled(if you had it in Qeynos). Did you ever go into the arena and smite guildies in Qeynos? If you did, then you exiled and your spell didn't work anymore I could see being upset. But honestly, what do you think a spell like 'smite evil' should do? Smite good? Smite Neutral?</p><p>The spell isn't called 'Nuke people'. lol</p>

[Kradun]

Smite evil <b>could</b> be what the paladin sees as evil. So if the paladin sees a foe and presumes he is evil, could he not lay a smiting upon that foe? edit --- of course he may not be able to at all if his divine(divine power just means power from a higher force, good or evil) power comes from a single diety. 

[Gagla]

<p>You're right, Kradun, that seems feasible.</p><p>This is what I was envisioning:</p><p>Paladin runs up to Exiled Templar... fills out the appropriate paperwork and petitions his god.</p><p>Paladin: Lay your fury on my enemies!</p><p>Mithaniel Marr: Umm, he works for me... pretty nice guy actually.</p><p>Paladin: Err... destroy this evil!</p><p>Mithaniel Marr: What're you talking about?</p><p>Paladin: Come on, I just want to kill him!</p><p>Mithaniel Marr: You just want to kill him? Are you insane? Are you evil? *mithaniel marr has renounced you as a follower*</p><p>Paladin: I'm contacting the devs~!</p>

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

Gaglaak...I thought you were a paladin?  <3.

[Kradun]

Gaglaak@Vox wrote: <blockquote><p>You're right, Kradun, that seems feasible.</p><p>This is what I was envisioning:</p><p>Paladin runs up to Exiled Templar... fills out the appropriate paperwork and petitions his god.</p><p>Paladin: Lay your fury on my enemies!</p><p>Mithaniel Marr: Umm, he works for me... pretty nice guy actually.</p><p>Paladin: Err... destroy this evil!</p><p>Mithaniel Marr: What're you talking about?</p><p>Paladin: Come on, I just want to kill him!</p><p>Mithaniel Marr: You just want to kill him? Are you insane? Are you evil? *mithaniel marr has renounced you as a follower*</p><p>Paladin: I'm contacting the devs~!</p></blockquote>LOL.. that gave me a chuckle

[Denzei]

Fizantalus@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>imo, both restrictions should be removed.  Pally's are allowed to exile, and once they are exiled, both factions are "evil" in their beliefs.  Semantics aside, if you want to play the lore/rp card, the pally is still gettings his spells while exiled, and regardless if qeynosians are "good", they're still non-believers.  Consider the exilied Paladin a fanatical believer, punishing all regardless of their faction.  There were many templars of the crusades that did evil things in the name of god...why in a fantasy game is this not possible?  If paladins can't use one of their AA's against their original faction, that's as silly as an  exiled assassin not being able to decap FP'ers, an exiled Necro can't Lifeburn FP'ers, an exiled Ranger can't snipershot Q's, etc etc...  </p></blockquote> hmmm... Qeynos is seen as the "GOOD" faction in the same way that FP is seen as the "EVIL" faction, exile is something in the middle. If an exile would be able to attack a Qeynosian with Smite "Evil" they would be attacking the GOOD faction.... hmm it doesn't really fit does it? Evil attacking good wiith smite evil? hmm...

[enjoilab]

rename the spell then Ill say they should allow it to hit everyone...but evil is either fp or exiled...and good is people who follow the queen according to the lore...

[Borias]

<p>Theres a few good options.</p><p>1)  Keep it as such, it's not quite right, some people upset in Qeynos and in Haven.</p><p>2)  Remove the class part and keep the faction.  Seems to be the most popular idea.</p><p>3)  Open it up to smiting anyone.  The name of the ability would seem to suggest that you shouldn't be able to smite Qeynosians, because they are labeled as "good" in this game.  Whether or not you feel your side in Haven is good, doesn't really matter, since Sony deemed it that you are not in the good city anymore.  If you want to get really into lore and such- traditionally all Paladins that switch away from their god are stripped of all their powers forever.  Since you do not start worshipping a deity, but rather can only start in the good city of Qeynos, leaving and attacking your former friends could be considered the same.</p><p>And my crazy thoughts on it.  You get a customizable choice, similar to respecing, that makes you choose on alignment, or maybe class, if you want to be able to smite, or lay on hands.  You want to be able to smite Exiles?  OK, but now you can't LoH them, since they are the "enemy".  I think the idea of a Pally using LoH on a Shadowknight is silly anyways on a PvP server.</p>

[Chia_Pet]

What smite evil says in its restrictions, is that id any of the FOLLOWING are true then it will work. then theres this list of being evil, not being an evil class ,and the kicker for exiles...if not a citizen of qeynos...which basically means that if its a good class and they are a citizen of qeynos, then you cant hurt em with it.  this also means, that since im also a pally, and I use the spell, it whacks poor liluk while i'm immune to his. basically he wants that changed, And no i dont agree with it, I think all pallys should be good only, and nowhere in between. but thats just my opinion =/

[Kaleyen]

<cite>Chia_Pet wrote:</cite><blockquote> this also means, that since im also a pally, and I use the spell, it whacks poor liluk while i'm immune to his. </blockquote>Actually it doesn't "whack" me because I check against one of the restrictions.  IE like the example I gave where it won't hit Exiled Templars. Here is how the spell reads... <img src="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b353/Cook1/SM.jpg" border="0"> Notice the class AND the faction restrictions...what I propose is to have one of those removed.

[Splintered]

Liluk@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Now before I start to go into detail about my arguments to get the PVP version of the spell changed I want to state a few things. When reading this thread try to keep an open mind and not have a predetermined response because I am in fact an exiled Paladin.  I don't want this to turn into a debate of good or evil or what SOE determines to be about good vs evil.  Keep in mind that my arguments are with PVP in mind and not PVE. I don't expect everyone to agree with my point of view, however if you read this with an open mind as stated above I'm sure you'll see that I do have some valid/key points. I realize I have posted on this in the past but the posts turned into a morality debate on what the poster felt was the definition of good and evil, I am not looking to debate that as posted previously. Now to the guts of the post... A few updates back Smite Evil was fixed to actually work in PVP, as previously it wasn't working after an update that went live sometime back in November.  The previous version of the PVP spell was limited to specific classes, they were classes that could only be tied to Qeynos that the spell would be ineffective against.  While the latest update on this spell fixed for PVP content it also added to the restrictions, as well as class restrictions it also added a faction restriction. I understand that other classes have abilities and spells that have restrictions on them, I do not believe that a class specific end line AA ability should be this restricted. My suggestion would be to take one or the other restriction, not both.  So either have it limited on classes or limited on factions, but not both. </blockquote>Honestly, I have argued against this in the past... but thinking about it more closely, paladins need this skill. I believe anyone who cons against the paladin should be able to be affected by this spell. If your worried about the fp aspect of it, maybe just change the name to smite (and not specific good, evil ect..)

[Chia_Pet]

Liluk it says specifically.. IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ARE TRUE. it will work if ANY of the following are true...and you sir are NOT a citizen of kelethin or qeynos.

[lavasoul]

<p>The spell does not land if any of the restriction is true. So in this case Exile paladin and Qeynos paladin is immune to it and all the classes noted in the class restriction.</p>

[Chia_Pet]

Abel@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>The spell does not land if any of the restriction is true. So in this case Exile paladin and Qeynos paladin is immune to it and all the classes noted in the class restriction.</p></blockquote>the spell specifically states that it DOES lane if ANY of the below are true, not the other way around. you are reading it wrong.

[therodge]

regardless of what it says i have tested multipul times it will not work on any good class regardless iof faction and wont work on some nuetral classes, peopel make mistakes even in programming and it will not hit someone of a good class

[Kaleyen]

Abel@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>The spell does not land if any of the restriction is true. So in this case Exile paladin and Qeynos paladin is immune to it and all the classes noted in the class restriction.</p></blockquote>Mr. Abel is correct.

[Izzypop]

Going by class makes more sence. Necromancers Coercers Inquisitors Defilers Bruisers SK's Assassins Brigands. Defining evil by a city loyalty is just pure Qeynosian arrogance. Though in fairness to paladins what would make more sence is if it works on evil classes and followers of the evil gods.  It makes far more sence to me for it to work on an exiled pally that follows Rallos Zek than a freeport Guardian that's a follower of Brell. 

[Splintered]

<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote>Going by class makes more sence. Necromancers Coercers Inquisitors Defilers Bruisers SK's Assassins Brigands. Defining evil by a city loyalty is just pure Qeynosian arrogance. Though in fairness to paladins what would make more sence is if it works on evil classes and followers of the evil gods.  It makes far more sence to me for it to work on an exiled pally that follows Rallos Zek than a freeport Guardian that's a follower of Brell.  </blockquote> hey izzy, hows real life treating ya? thinking of coming back at all <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />?

[lavasoul]

<p>On a non-pvp server the 2 restriction doesn't hurt a character but on a PVP server having 2 restriction really cripple a skill down bad.</p>

[Borias]

<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote>Going by class makes more sence. Necromancers Coercers Inquisitors Defilers Bruisers SK's Assassins Brigands. Defining evil by a city loyalty is just pure Qeynosian arrogance. Though in fairness to paladins what would make more sence is if it works on evil classes and followers of the evil gods.  It makes far more sence to me for it to work on an exiled pally that follows Rallos Zek than a freeport Guardian that's a follower of Brell.  </blockquote> Except that you are by no means forced to worship a deity at all.  Are the agnostic folk "evil"?  I still think the skill should not reflect on your alignment, but makes you go class by class, and pick what you want to smite.  Then if you want to smite it, you can't LoH that class.  Because, they're now like, evil and stuff.  Make it need a respec so you can't just switch depending on what your pvp group is every time.

[Kaleyen]

Abel@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>On a non-pvp server the 2 restriction doesn't hurt a character but on a PVP server having 2 restriction really cripple a skill down bad. </p></blockquote>Exactly, I know when I tend to write I can go around the point itself without hitting on it.

[holypaladin28]

<p>uust throwing this out there</p><p>if you remove the faction based resriction then you cant hit any of the good only classes</p><p>if you remove the class restriction then you cant attack any good aligned classes</p><p>so if they remove the class restriction then it doesnt solve your problem.  if they remove the faction one you can only hit 8 classes out of 16 still not very good. granted 8 is better then 16. personally i think it shouldnt work sagaisnt the good only classes not a faction.  and yeah pallys need smite evil its sucha  sweet spell </p>

[Greggthegrmreapr]

Devs said when exile faction went live that there would be downsides.  This is one of those downsides.

[Chia_Pet]

Liluk@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Abel@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>The spell does not land if any of the restriction is true. So in this case Exile paladin and Qeynos paladin is immune to it and all the classes noted in the class restriction.</p></blockquote>Mr. Abel is correct. </blockquote>wrong, it specifically states it will proc if any of the following are true. they are not a list of restrictions persay but a list of requirements. its says it does this amount of damage, IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ARE TRUE. it doesnt say IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ARE NOT TRUE.

[lavasoul]

<p>Artur, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I can definitely say that Liluk and I are on the same page on how the spell is working atm.</p>

[holypaladin28]

im with you abel not to sure what hes sayoing either

[Chia_Pet]

Abel@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Artur, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I can definitely say that Liluk and I are on the same page on how the spell is working atm.</p></blockquote>according to you and Liluk, liluk cant be hit because he is a paladin...however he is a citizen of Haven not qeynos, as he is exile, what im trying to say is... I as a pally from Qeynos, CAN hit him with smite evil. you guys are saying thats not true, but the spell specifically states that he is hittable with smite evil as he "is not a citezen of Qeynos or kelethin" as stated in the list of requirements/restrictions. whether thats how its working or not can easily be tested, and perhaps he is not hitable with smite evil, but it clearly states that he SHOULD be.

[lavasoul]

<p>I guess you don't understand how the spell works then. You as a paladin from Qeynos you can not hit Liluk which is a paladin of Exile because of class restriction put on the spell. </p><p>You keep bringing up the faction restriction which I can understand but overlook that there is a class restriction also. <b>If either of the restriction is true</b> then spell does not land on the target. So in this case class restriction check out to be true that he is a paladin so it won't land on him.</p><p>You will understand what many of  us agree on when you fight any of the classes listed on the class restriction that are exiles.</p>

[Chia_Pet]

Abel@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>I guess you don't understand how the spell works then. You as a paladin from Qeynos you can not hit Liluk which is a paladin of Exile because of class restriction put on the spell. </p><p>You keep bringing up the faction restriction which I can understand but overlook that there is a class restriction also. <b>If either of the restriction is true</b> then spell does not land on the target. So in this case class restriction check out to be true that he is a paladin so it won't land on him.</p><p>You will understand what many of  us agree on when you fight any of the classes listed on the class restriction that are exiles.</p></blockquote>well this is where i disagree, you say if any RESTRICTION is true...however, it does not state that on the spell, it simply states that "if ANY (meaning any ONE not all) of the following are TRUE, the spell will land. tell liluk to meet me sometime in QH and ill cast it on him, if it says hes immune, ill shut up. the spell gives alist of possibles. they did this so that smite evil will KILL undead paladins. before it would NOT kill them. it now does. why? because it states that evn though the undead IS a paladin, it is ALSO undead and therefor can be hit. by the same token it specifically STATES that if you ARE NOT a citizen of Qeynos or kelethin you can be hit as well...irregardless of class.

[Darlion]

<cite>Chia_Pet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Abel@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>I guess you don't understand how the spell works then. You as a paladin from Qeynos you can not hit Liluk which is a paladin of Exile because of class restriction put on the spell. </p><p>You keep bringing up the faction restriction which I can understand but overlook that there is a class restriction also. <b>If either of the restriction is true</b> then spell does not land on the target. So in this case class restriction check out to be true that he is a paladin so it won't land on him.</p><p>You will understand what many of  us agree on when you fight any of the classes listed on the class restriction that are exiles.</p></blockquote>well this is where i disagree, you say if any RESTRICTION is true...however, it does not state that on the spell, it simply states that "if ANY (meaning any ONE not all) of the following are TRUE, the spell will land. tell liluk to meet me sometime in QH and ill cast it on him, if it says hes immune, ill shut up. the spell gives alist of possibles. they did this so that smite evil will KILL undead paladins. before it would NOT kill them. it now does. why? because it states that evn though the undead IS a paladin, it is ALSO undead and therefor can be hit. by the same token it specifically STATES that if you ARE NOT a citizen of Qeynos or kelethin you can be hit as well...irregardless of class. </blockquote>You may have noticed that spells don't always work exactly as they are written. Have either of you tested this lately? Perhaps before you bite each other's heads off?

[Chia_Pet]

<cite>Darlion wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Chia_Pet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Abel@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>I guess you don't understand how the spell works then. You as a paladin from Qeynos you can not hit Liluk which is a paladin of Exile because of class restriction put on the spell. </p><p>You keep bringing up the faction restriction which I can understand but overlook that there is a class restriction also. <b>If either of the restriction is true</b> then spell does not land on the target. So in this case class restriction check out to be true that he is a paladin so it won't land on him.</p><p>You will understand what many of  us agree on when you fight any of the classes listed on the class restriction that are exiles.</p></blockquote>well this is where i disagree, you say if any RESTRICTION is true...however, it does not state that on the spell, it simply states that "if ANY (meaning any ONE not all) of the following are TRUE, the spell will land. tell liluk to meet me sometime in QH and ill cast it on him, if it says hes immune, ill shut up. the spell gives alist of possibles. they did this so that smite evil will KILL undead paladins. before it would NOT kill them. it now does. why? because it states that evn though the undead IS a paladin, it is ALSO undead and therefor can be hit. by the same token it specifically STATES that if you ARE NOT a citizen of Qeynos or kelethin you can be hit as well...irregardless of class. </blockquote>You may have noticed that spells don't always work exactly as they are written. Have either of you tested this lately? Perhaps before you bite each other's heads off? </blockquote>Yar it may work differently then what it states. im willing to try it out

[JanMG5]

just rename it Smite Infidel, and let the paladins have a ball imo. (and I'm Freeport btw)

[Kaleyen]

<cite>JanMG5 wrote:</cite><blockquote>just rename it Smite Infidel, and let the paladins have a ball imo. (and I'm Freeport btw) </blockquote>Smite Evil had a chance to be an awesome Paladin PVP weapon, ya know, would make people flee just from the thought of being Smitten.