AGI tree and assassins.

[TerabithianWhisperwi]

Okay, so what I'm after here is some data/input from players that have tried what I'm about to suggest, or I'd LOVE to have someone actually re-spec and try this out for me....I don't have enough points yet!! Basically, I noticed that we assassins have an end-ability in the assassin tree that greatly reduces the recovery time on our abilities. I thought to myself "wowwy", until I realized what a "recovery time" really is, and then it became sort of a so/so ability to me. Know what I mean? But now I notice that the end ability in the AGI line reduces "All Combat Abilities" casting times by 35% Egad!! I'm wondering has anyone gotten both of these abilities together? It seems to me that a huge reduction in casting times would be just sick for us assassins, and even more so when coupled with a halved-recovery period across the board. Has anyone tried this out? (I'm guessing that very few assassins even give the AGI tree a second thought, but this could be a huge mistake...)

[HellRaiserXX]

I know of some people who have tried it.  The problem is that most of the AAs in the AGI line affect ranged combat, which we dont do much of, and you would have to give up either the Melee or Spell crits which is going to be a pretty significant drop in DPS.  With the way EoF is going, crits are the way to go and I know of many top raiding assassins who wear lower quality gear to get those extra crits.

[TerabithianWhisperwi]

well sure, one of the crits would be gone. But I was thinking that the faster use of combat arts in both reuse time and recast time would make up the difference potentially. speaking of which, with regards to crits, I am not sure how crits affect poison because poison has a solid number rather than a range? know what I mean? like, a spell that hits for 45-150 will crit at max damage, 150. Poison on the other hand might, say, hit for 150. How does the crit affect a solid number like that? My options right now stand at the popular str/int, or the more original str/agi or int/agi. I need to understand crits better to make that decision.

[Baelor_xev]

<p>I think you are confusing a few things: Cast time, recast time and cooldown time.</p><p>The 35% at the end of agi reduces your cast time...most of our CAs have a .5 second cast time</p><p>The Assassin tree line you are talking about reduces  the dead time between being able to cast CAs, not the actual CAs themselves.</p><p>So with those aa's you can reduce your cast time from .5 to .325 and be able to run through them with less cooldown between.  This would be great for a quick burst, but you're still going to need to wait for the refresh timer that hasn't been affected.</p><p>Agi is for Rangers.  A lot of their abilities have a much longer cast time than ours.</p><p> Baelor</p><p>70 Assassin on Everfrost</p><p>Former Ranger (fwiw)</p>

[TerabithianWhisperwi]

I think I see what you're saying. I could put a helluva quick burst together, but then I'd be waiting the same exact amount of time I'm currently waiting for those CA's to be available again. I thought that the refresh time would be affected somehow. Dammit both of those end abilities are completely useless to me. I hate doing what everyone else is doing, but the STR and INT lines seem to literally be the only ways to go. thanks for clarifying!

[Brimestar]

My 2 cents, but from a PvP server point of view for the predator tree I dumped my points into STR and STA...Its wonderful when someone wastes all their big hits on 100% parry.

[Lord Montague]

<cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote> I hate doing what everyone else is doing, but the STR and INT lines seem to literally be the only ways to go. </blockquote> I think this comment sums up a lot of my feelings on the Predator tree.  While there are some great things about the tree, I find it sad that a system that was originally intended to allow for more diversity and character customization actually has little room for other choices.

[-=Hoss=-]

Well, I'm thinking of going with the agi line to get my ranged DPS up.  I'm not going to say what I parse, cause after reading the numbers you guys throw up I'm embarssed, but in a ranged fight, I'm usually about 1/3 of what I do in a regular fight.  If I joust, sometimes I can get up to 1/2.  What do yall think of that?  FWIW, right now I've got the nightshade line, then went about halfway on the agi line to get the increased in-combat movement speed.  Then i dumped the rest of the points (7) into strength.  -t

[Jayad]

No, don't do that. You'll never be good at ranged DPS - trying to optimize that, you'd be throwing away too much. Stick with STR and INT lines. Especially STR.

[Kaiser Sigma]

By now I ignore why people think there's any option to Assassins other than STR and INT lines. =/

[silentpsycho]

-=Hoss=- wrote: <blockquote>Well, I'm thinking of going with the agi line to get my ranged DPS up.  I'm not going to say what I parse, cause after reading the numbers you guys throw up I'm embarssed, but in a ranged fight, I'm usually about 1/3 of what I do in a regular fight.  If I joust, sometimes I can get up to 1/2.  What do yall think of that?  FWIW, right now I've got the nightshade line, then went about halfway on the agi line to get the increased in-combat movement speed.  Then i dumped the rest of the points (7) into strength.  -t </blockquote><p> It could make perfect sense to do this... if you are betraying to a ranger.</p><p>I hate to say it, but if you are an Assasin, the only option that makes sense is STR/INT.</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p>Well, I'm probably gunna open up a can of worms by saying this, but I am thinking of betraying.  I know I know, I throw up a little in my mouth when i say it out-loud.  </p><p>But for now, I'm hell bent on making this work.  And I have another question about the agi tree.  What, exactly, does increased in combat movement speed mean?  Is that the same as haste?  Because I have that one maxed out, and in my 'p' screen, I still have 0 haste.  </p><p> -t</p>

[Lord Montague]

<p>As great as some people think the predator tree is, it quite simply <b>fails</b> to deliver choice - which I thought was the original point of Achievements.  Yeah, sure you can choose differnet options, then the min/maxers label you as a heretic but sadly they do have a point.  There might be some lines that have some nice abilities, but you have to expend points in things you'll never use or you wind up significantly limiting your potential to get to those abilities and that is sad.  Part of that is the nature of the class, part of that is the design of the tree.  So yeah, if you're hellbent on AGI sadly Ranger is where you will need to be to get the most out of that tree.</p><p>To answer your question,  in-combat movement speed means how fast your character moves and is not the same as haste.  It will only make you run to or from the mob faster (which might help in jousting) but it will not make you attack faster.</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p>Are you kidding me?  Is that what it means?  Well, thats completely useless.  So, next time I'm in combat, if i pull up that screen, i should see 10% run speed instead of 0? (because all my other speed buffes cancel during combat)</p><p>-t</p>

[Chij]

Actually that skill would be great for Bow using rangers (and what ranger doesn't use a bow) but since most run speed are cancelled during combat, a natural boost easier to snare, dot, kite, and run away... run away...

[-=Hoss=-]

For the record, I checked it out when i logged in last night, and sure enough, when in combat, I still had 15% run speed.  So, I re-spec'd and now I'm nightshade/blademaster with the crits maxed out and the leftover points in str and int.  I still have 5% run speed in combat, no clue where thats coming from.  Didn't see it on any gear.  It might be a racial trait, I have a free respec of those coming, so i might do that later.  -t

[Jvaloth]

<p>They should have implemented an AA line like in EQ 1,  instead of railroading us down pre-defined paths and also making us take tons of useless stuff we'll never use to get to the one thing we would... </p><p>The whole AA system was rushed and got worse with EoF release imho.</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

Initially, I liked the way the eof trees intersected.  So, you could skip something useless like a sprint upgrade, and still get the honed reflexes and adroit defence upgrades underneath it.  The problem comes when you decide you want some of those end of the line abilities.  You can't do too much tree skipping and still get those.  My biggest problem with eof aa abilities is that they arenot as useful as kos.  But we have it better than mystics.  Both trees make me dry heave when i'm playing my mystic.  -t

[seigwahrheit]

<p>Well guys if you ever go pvp server your gonna get one hell of a shock.... EVERY endline AA (and i tried them all) is useful... Maybe not WIS so much ut still useful PVE i found.</p><p>Stop being sheep; respec and try what you want not what people say you should want</p>

[Brimestar]

-=Hoss=- wrote: <blockquote>Initially, I liked the way the eof trees intersected.  So, you could skip something useless like a sprint upgrade, and still get the honed reflexes and adroit defence upgrades underneath it.  The problem comes when you decide you want some of those end of the line abilities.  You can't do too much tree skipping and still get those.  My biggest problem with eof aa abilities is that they arenot as useful as kos.  But we have it better than mystics.  Both trees make me dry heave when i'm playing my mystic.  -t </blockquote> Just had to say from a PvP point of view, sprint is FTW...You can run down those pesky targets that attempt to flee...But of crs it is prob a waste in PvE.

[seigwahrheit]

Quiet Brime these people dont want to know about a pretend PVP assassin from a pretend PVP server

[Lasai]

I'm a 59 Assassin who doesn't care about parsing, raids, or most grouping. I solo most of my game time. I like the agi line a lot, 50% avoidance helps and with so many see stealth mobs I use my ranged arts all the time. I absolutely love the KD/Interrupt, casters hurt me, KD helps. Also, I play on dialup.. anything passive that adds to survivability in lag is good for me. I hate common wisdom, and I hate cookie cutter templates, so far the agi has been working fine for me. I also like having the total freedom of not being restricted in weaps or equipment choice. It all comes down to making what you like, that suits your own playstyle.

[Sarevok]

<cite>seigwahrheit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quiet Brime these people dont want to know about a pretend PVP assassin from a pretend PVP server</blockquote> am i going to have to exile and own you? seriously, show respect to your fellow freep nub.

[seigwahrheit]

<cite>Sarevok55 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seigwahrheit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quiet Brime these people dont want to know about a pretend PVP assassin from a pretend PVP server</blockquote> am i going to have to exile and own you? seriously, show respect to your fellow freep nub.</blockquote><p>I would deerly love that... Drama is what makes the PvP server alive.</p><p>P.S, my latest pvp video opens with a fellow assassin that exiled and tried to kill me; now he just runs on sight. You should watch imo.</p><p>Nagafen forum> Search:: Adelphi pvp video</p><p>Take care </p>

[Brimestar]

<p>Is Naggy a pretend pvp server now? I missed the memo <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I heart you Adelphi in a non-[Removed for Content] way (jokes man jokes)</p>

[Shinnar]

<p>I personnaly think that the best line is INT.  If you use dagger, you can debuff poison resist on mobs so high, that you deal almost double damage with your poison attacks. And because almost every spell proc crits, your damage is even higher....  Intoxication and neurotic are nice debuffs that make melee mobs almost unable to hit you, so soloing melee named mobs is no problem.... </p><p>Second line is hard to choose, each has some nice things... except of Wis maybe....</p><p>On PVE i would take STR for even better soloability and dps. </p><p>ON PVP i think STR, AGI and STA lines are even.... Unless you have melee crit equip and adornments i think AGI or STA lines will be better, because that melle crit chance is not so high to make this line a MUST....  You say, why AGI? It si because in pvp i use bow maybe more than melee <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Either them (casters, rangers, bards)or you (swashies, monks) want to keep a distance so that is why those ranged crits are very handy... And ranged critical really hurts <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>STA line has also good benefits, HP increase is nice, chance to aoe too and that final ability is VERY nice....</p>

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Shinnar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I personnaly think that the best line is INT.  If you use dagger, you can debuff poison resist on mobs so high, that you deal almost double damage with your poison attacks. And because almost every spell proc crits, your damage is even higher....  Intoxication and neurotic are nice debuffs that make melee mobs almost unable to hit you, so soloing melee named mobs is no problem.... </p><p>Second line is hard to choose, each has some nice things... except of Wis maybe....</p><p>On PVE i would take STR for even better soloability and dps. </p><p>ON PVP i think STR, AGI and STA lines are even.... Unless you have melee crit equip and adornments i think AGI or STA lines will be better, because that melle crit chance is not so high to make this line a MUST....  You say, why AGI? It si because in pvp i use bow maybe more than melee <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Either them (casters, rangers, bards)or you (swashies, monks) want to keep a distance so that is why those ranged crits are very handy... And ranged critical really hurts <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>STA line has also good benefits, HP increase is nice, chance to aoe too and that final ability is VERY nice....</p></blockquote>Is this argument based on the idea that on a PVP server, you spend so much time looking for fights that your abilities are allways up every time you fight despite not having the end ability in the STR line? 

[seigwahrheit]

<cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Is Naggy a pretend pvp server now? I missed the memo <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I heart you Adelphi in a non-[Removed for Content] way (jokes man jokes)</p></blockquote> Ha! touche imo

[Vydar]

My pred tree is Str line and Int line.  I believe all other lines to be a waste. Melee Crit and Spell crit is absolutely critical (no pun intended) The toxic armor buff is awesome, debuffs anyone who hits you.  The last poison ability in the Int line is absolutely crazy in pvp, as well as a LOT of dps in raids and such.  Since it is treated like a temp buff, its excellent for one v ones or for those raids where you have to go max dps instantly (Prince Ruthless in 3p's for example) I've tried the other trees, not that impressed. The party buff is too short and too infrequent.  The rest of the tree is almost a waste.  The Agi line, I LOVE the knockback for pvp, but the rest of it is pretty much a waste for assassin's.  Ranged crit... oh yay.  For my three ranged abilities.  Yipee.  Faster casting time?  Like we had long casting times to begin with? Wis line is a joke.  It's only intention is for people who want to gank and run, but... you lose a lot of potential for ganking by going up that line.  Yes, stealth reuse timer and such is nice, but not significant enough to make it worth it.  After everything I've tried, I'd say you have two good setups. Str line all the way to the top.  8 points in melee crit, 6 points in parry, 4 in the others.  2 choices for the rest of the setup Int line up to spell crit (4, 4, 4, <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> takes up 20 points.  This leaves you with 4 points left.  Spend those 4 points on the agi knockback (you'll have to use one additional point on the item) or Int line all the way up (4, 4, 6, <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  The final poison is amazing for not only pvp but for raid dps.  Its treated as a temp buff, so I pop it and the 3 other temp buffs, then i'm at Max DPS for the next 48 seconds (how long the int line intoxicate lasts).  As soon as you hit with any melee attack, the intoxicate hits them, then you can drop your two poison debuffs, and that will stack with hemotoxin (bad choice) or caustic (much better for dps, with how many times it procs for higher damage output).  Str and Int line are my personal choices as a raid/pvp'er, but as a straight pvp'er, i'd probably drop the end part of the Int line and pick up the Agi knockback.

[Vydar]

<cite>silentpsycho wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shinnar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I personnaly think that the best line is INT.  If you use dagger, you can debuff poison resist on mobs so high, that you deal almost double damage with your poison attacks. And because almost every spell proc crits, your damage is even higher....  Intoxication and neurotic are nice debuffs that make melee mobs almost unable to hit you, so soloing melee named mobs is no problem.... </p><p>Second line is hard to choose, each has some nice things... except of Wis maybe....</p><p>On PVE i would take STR for even better soloability and dps. </p><p>ON PVP i think STR, AGI and STA lines are even.... Unless you have melee crit equip and adornments i think AGI or STA lines will be better, because that melle crit chance is not so high to make this line a MUST....  You say, why AGI? It si because in pvp i use bow maybe more than melee <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Either them (casters, rangers, bards)or you (swashies, monks) want to keep a distance so that is why those ranged crits are very handy... And ranged critical really hurts <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>STA line has also good benefits, HP increase is nice, chance to aoe too and that final ability is VERY nice....</p></blockquote>Is this argument based on the idea that on a PVP server, you spend so much time looking for fights that your abilities are allways up every time you fight despite not having the end ability in the STR line?  </blockquote>And it is not that hard to find a fight on the pvp servers if you know what  you're doing.  You just have to know where to look, and as an assassin with tracking abilities, if you can't find a fight, you just fail at life and need to log out.  When I'm actively seeking pvp, I get a fight at least once every two minutes on a slow day.  I feel sorry for all the Naggy people that just got the huge influx of players for the transfers.  My buddy is over there, says that BS crashes all the time due to their constantly being raid vs raid pvp battles up there.  Raid pvp is just stupid imo.  very little benefit to anyone in it, crazy lag, and its not even fun.  I like small groups on small groups much better.

[silentpsycho]

Vydar@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>silentpsycho wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shinnar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I personnaly think that the best line is INT.  If you use dagger, you can debuff poison resist on mobs so high, that you deal almost double damage with your poison attacks. And because almost every spell proc crits, your damage is even higher....  Intoxication and neurotic are nice debuffs that make melee mobs almost unable to hit you, so soloing melee named mobs is no problem.... </p><p>Second line is hard to choose, each has some nice things... except of Wis maybe....</p><p>On PVE i would take STR for even better soloability and dps. </p><p>ON PVP i think STR, AGI and STA lines are even.... Unless you have melee crit equip and adornments i think AGI or STA lines will be better, because that melle crit chance is not so high to make this line a MUST....  You say, why AGI? It si because in pvp i use bow maybe more than melee <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Either them (casters, rangers, bards)or you (swashies, monks) want to keep a distance so that is why those ranged crits are very handy... And ranged critical really hurts <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>STA line has also good benefits, HP increase is nice, chance to aoe too and that final ability is VERY nice....</p></blockquote>Is this argument based on the idea that on a PVP server, you spend so much time looking for fights that your abilities are allways up every time you fight despite not having the end ability in the STR line?  </blockquote>And it is not that hard to find a fight on the pvp servers if you know what  you're doing.  You just have to know where to look, and as an assassin with tracking abilities, if you can't find a fight, you just fail at life and need to log out.  When I'm actively seeking pvp, I get a fight at least once every two minutes on a slow day.  I feel sorry for all the Naggy people that just got the huge influx of players for the transfers.  My buddy is over there, says that BS crashes all the time due to their constantly being raid vs raid pvp battles up there.  Raid pvp is just stupid imo.  very little benefit to anyone in it, crazy lag, and its not even fun.  I like small groups on small groups much better. </blockquote><p>I just want to understand why every assasin wouldn't want the end line ability for the STR line.  Pre-AA's, my PVE raiding assasin used to just dream of such an ability - and wow, here it actually is!  I just completed this line on my re-rolled PVP assasin, and I love it so far; fights just aren't that few and far between for me. </p>

[Shinnar]

before lev 50, the benefit from that last STR line ability is almost none. I am going Str line only because of parry enhance and i surely respec and try AGI/INT when i get 50th point in predator... And then STA/INT lol, when the respec is so cheap <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />