Guide of the Deceiver - intent or oops?? Devs chime in please~

[Valdaglerion]

<p>I have never understood the, what I perceive to be, shortcoming of the illusions implementations in the game. In the lore and quest for the Guise of the Deceiver it is pointedly stated the mask can be used to sneak into Freeport and fool those into believing you are someone you are not. </p><p>Those of us that have tried it learned the hard way this is not so, Freeport Guard spankings are not fun, unless of course you are into that sort of thing...ANYWAY...</p><p> What happened that made the implementation change in the game. Were the devs unable to temporarily modify the alignment or class of the character as to modify the aggro of mobs within the zone?</p><p> I would assume the same technical barriers are the reason the otehr illusions in the game which take up such valuable storage space after doing the bones collections are nothing more than entertainment fodder as well.</p><p>Making these modifications would open a host of options. Firstly, if a change to the Guise of the Deceiver is made the change should apply for both Freeportians and Qeynosians. The Guise of the Deceiver should simply modify your alignement to its opposite making the same item useful for both (makes sense as they do the same quest to get it...)</p><p>While using the Guise of the Deceiver you should be able to get Quest from same aligned NPC's. For instance, you are Qeynosian and using the GOTD - you go into Freeport and can use mender, buy from merchants and get quests from evil NPC's.</p><p>You should only be allowed to work on those requests however, while you are using the GOTD. Once you remove the mask any hanging quests should become idle and unable to proceed until the mask is back in place.</p><p>Same with illusions - would be interesting to have the gnoll illusion on and be able to sneak through Splitpaw to get to the lower levels. At least you could get past the gnolls. There are other things there which are aggro to the gnolls also <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Would also be interesting, in continuing with the gnoll example to be trotting through Thundering Steppes and get attacked by Centaurs...LOL</p><p>Oh, the variations are endless but also stay in step with faction alignments which already exist in the game, its all a matter of temporary reassingment yes?</p>

[Sabutai]

why should citizens of qeynos have free reign of both cities?  don't qeynos players already enjoy more than their share of fairness in this game?

[DngrMou]

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote> don't qeynos players already enjoy more than their share of fairness in this game? </blockquote> No.

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote>why should citizens of qeynos have free reign of both cities?  don't qeynos players already enjoy more than their share of fairness in this game? </blockquote><p> Perhaps you didnt read the entire post or this line was overlooked - </p><p>"Making these modifications would open a host of options. <b>Firstly, if a change to the Guise of the Deceiver is made the change should apply for both Freeportians and Qeynosians.</b> The Guise of the Deceiver should simply modify your alignement to its opposite making the same item useful for both (makes sense as they do the same quest to get it...)"</p><p> The example I later used was for Qeynos but would be equally applied to Freeportians. The game should be equalized in that respect in my opinion.</p>

[Rijacki]

I think it would be spiffy if the Guise of the Deciever (and -only- the Guise) would temp alter alignment reactions.  It would also be grand if the Guise was Wood Elf for Freeporters (to better get into Qeynos places) and Dark Elf for Qeynosians/Kelethins (as it is now for all).  But it should also have the negative effect if worn in the home city. I don't think it ever, in EQ2, fooled any NPC about alignment.  It's an item out of EQ1 that did help with alignment.  The description is of the EQ1 item.  I also know that its ability to cast a DE illusion is also from EQ1.  Other racial masks were in other places.  In EQ1, though, it was only wearable/usable by rogues and bards.

[The_Patchwork_Rogue]

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have never understood the, what I perceive to be, shortcoming of the illusions implementations in the game. In the lore and quest for the Guise of the Deceiver it is pointedly stated the mask can be used to sneak into Freeport and fool those into believing you are someone you are not. </p><p>Those of us that have tried it learned the hard way this is not so, Freeport Guard spankings are not fun, unless of course you are into that sort of thing...ANYWAY...</p><p> What happened that made the implementation change in the game. Were the devs unable to temporarily modify the alignment or class of the character as to modify the aggro of mobs within the zone?</p><p> I would assume the same technical barriers are the reason the otehr illusions in the game which take up such valuable storage space after doing the bones collections are nothing more than entertainment fodder as well.</p><p>Making these modifications would open a host of options. Firstly, if a change to the Guise of the Deceiver is made the change should apply for both Freeportians and Qeynosians. The Guise of the Deceiver should simply modify your alignement to its opposite making the same item useful for both (makes sense as they do the same quest to get it...)</p><p>While using the Guise of the Deceiver you should be able to get Quest from same aligned NPC's. For instance, you are Qeynosian and using the GOTD - you go into Freeport and can use mender, buy from merchants and get quests from evil NPC's.</p><p>You should only be allowed to work on those requests however, while you are using the GOTD. Once you remove the mask any hanging quests should become idle and unable to proceed until the mask is back in place.</p><p>Same with illusions - would be interesting to have the gnoll illusion on and be able to sneak through Splitpaw to get to the lower levels. At least you could get past the gnolls. There are other things there which are aggro to the gnolls also <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Would also be interesting, in continuing with the gnoll example to be trotting through Thundering Steppes and get attacked by Centaurs...LOL</p><p>Oh, the variations are endless but also stay in step with faction alignments which already exist in the game, its all a matter of temporary reassingment yes?</p></blockquote><p>I think that being under the guise of the deciever should allow you to "pose" as a Freeportian with a chance of detection based on your current adventuring level vs the mob level (similar to sneak).</p><p>In addition, to make it fair for people from Freeport they should add the mask from EQ1 that allowed you to look like a high elf (forget the name) and have it work the other way round.  This way there are two masks - one for each alignment (makes it good for those who are exile as well).</p><p>However, to prevent abuse on the PVP servers, this "posing" ability should not be available to players there.</p>

[Dakkon_10]

<b><i><span style="font-size: small; font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva">The illusions giving you good faction with either city makes no sense. Since there is a betrayal system any race can be any faction; Alignment is not determined by race. So putting on an Illusion would only make you a stranger to both cities, and would more likely lower your faction with your own city. I do like the idea of being able to disguise yourself to sneak through your opposing city, but I think it should take more than just an illusion. Maybe some forged paperwork or special clothing?</span></i></b>

[Uilamin]

Way back when using the guise made you friendly in both cities, however, that was changed and guard behavior has changed since then as well. Why this was changed I do not know

[Valdaglerion]

Alistair@Kithicor wrote: <blockquote><b><i><span style="font-size: small; font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva">The illusions giving you good faction with either city makes no sense. Since there is a betrayal system any race can be any faction; Alignment is not determined by race. So putting on an Illusion would only make you a stranger to both cities, and would more likely lower your faction with your own city. I do like the idea of being able to disguise yourself to sneak through your opposing city, but I think it should take more than just an illusion. Maybe some forged paperwork or special clothing?</span></i></b> </blockquote><p> Alignment has to be a value stored in the database for the game. Without such a value they would not be able to track such things at the betrayal. Alignment is associated with the individual character and, as you have stated not a race; therefore, being able to modify the characters alignment temporarily while using the mask should be possible.</p><p>Moreover, having the SAME mask modify the alignment should be perfectly acceptable and make the mask more useful to all alignments before, during and after betrayal should they choose to do so.</p><p>I do like the idea of the illusion having a sliding scale of usefulness based on your current adventure level. Much like the mobs that see through invisibility. The closer you are to their level, the lower chance of seeing through your invis they have.</p>

[Anaun]

<p>I agree that this would make the HQ item useful and more interesting. And it should give the same benefit to Freeporters; perhaps a Wood-Elf illusion, instead?</p><p>BTW, there are already some humorous side-effects, at least for Qeynosians. </p><ul><li>If you use your Call of Qeynos while under the guise, you get teleported to Graystone Yard, regardless of your normal bind point.</li><li>If you walk through the city, even moreso in Willow Wood, NPC's who are normally friendly are suddenly not so friendly, until you remove the guise.</li></ul>

[Benzeneironpants]

What about make it like the mask used in the last step of Hooloh's hat quest?  An illusion spell that has a 10min duration and 10 min re-cast.  While the birds (guards) won't attack you from afar, they will see through the illusion if you get too close ?  Would that be too difficult to implement for an entire city zone ?

[Lulian]

I would say it's not a case of the devs can't make it work that way but that they don't want it to work that way.  I would think that they have a reason behind not wanting it to change your faction standing.  Possibly balance or a concept behind how they think faction should work or something along those lines.  In EQ1 with the slightest work a enchanter could wander around any city in the game.

[YourPIMP]

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have never understood the, what I perceive to be, shortcoming of the illusions implementations in the game. In the lore and quest for the Guise of the Deceiver it is pointedly stated the mask can be used to sneak into Freeport and fool those into believing you are someone you are not. </p><p>Those of us that have tried it learned the hard way this is not so, Freeport Guard spankings are not fun, unless of course you are into that sort of thing...ANYWAY...</p><p> What happened that made the implementation change in the game. Were the devs unable to temporarily modify the alignment or class of the character as to modify the aggro of mobs within the zone?</p><p> I would assume the same technical barriers are the reason the otehr illusions in the game which take up such valuable storage space after doing the bones collections are nothing more than entertainment fodder as well.</p><p>Making these modifications would open a host of options. Firstly, if a change to the Guise of the Deceiver is made the change should apply for both Freeportians and Qeynosians. The Guise of the Deceiver should simply modify your alignement to its opposite making the same item useful for both (makes sense as they do the same quest to get it...)</p><p>While using the Guise of the Deceiver you should be able to get Quest from same aligned NPC's. For instance, you are Qeynosian and using the GOTD - you go into Freeport and can use mender, buy from merchants and get quests from evil NPC's.</p><p>You should only be allowed to work on those requests however, while you are using the GOTD. Once you remove the mask any hanging quests should become idle and unable to proceed until the mask is back in place.</p><p>Same with illusions - would be interesting to have the gnoll illusion on and be able to sneak through Splitpaw to get to the lower levels. At least you could get past the gnolls. There are other things there which are aggro to the gnolls also <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Would also be interesting, in continuing with the gnoll example to be trotting through Thundering Steppes and get attacked by Centaurs...LOL</p><p>Oh, the variations are endless but also stay in step with faction alignments which already exist in the game, its all a matter of temporary reassingment yes?</p></blockquote>I think this would be nice. However I fear this would probably generate more bugs. How many threads have we read here about how someone was in middle of betrayel or how someone betrayed while in the middle of a quest and now they can no longer continue the quest/series. Although the concept is great I think you would have to balance out the amount of potential new bugs it would contribute. However I could be completely wrong <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dogm]

<p>Reasons why this won't work.</p><p> Say I'm a Dark Elf that Betrayed Freeport and am living in Qeynos.   When I head to Freeport the guards attack me.   So I put on my trusty Guise, and turn into a Dark elf???????huh, and magically the guards wouldn't want to kill me anymore.  Pretty silly there. </p><p>Completely different game then EQ was, and just because it worked that way there doesnt mean it should work the same here.</p>

[MadTexan3]

<cite>Dogmae wrote:</cite><blockquote>Say I'm a Dark Elf that Betrayed Freeport and am living in Qeynos.   When I head to Freeport the guards attack me.   So I put on my trusty Guise, and turn into a Dark elf???????huh, and magically the guards wouldn't want to kill me anymore.  Pretty silly there. </blockquote><p>Logically speaking, how do the guards even know which city you are aligned with? As many traitors as there are for each side there's no way any particular guard post could catch all of them as they try to enter the city, yet *somehow* they do.</p><p>Basically, there's no logical reason a magical effect couldn't hide your true allegiance, especially when that effect is provided by a magical item that isn't so easy to get. </p>

[Dogm]

<p>Ehhh, it is easy to get.   And the Freeport guards are well trained machines of death,  how could they not tell a goody goody Qeynosian from a Freeportian.  Now if you want to play the logic game, why do you equip a mask in the same spot you equip a torch, or poisons, or dolls, or a music box , or a canteen, etc. ?   Logic and magic don't go together, and the reason why the mask doesn't change your faction is because the Devs don't want it to.   How do I know this?  Well they've said it several times before when this same exact thread was posted.</p>