Books should have status reduction

[Valdaglerion]

<p>You know, from a lore standpoint, books would have been one of the most valuable commodities in the ancient world as there were so few around. Personally I have enjoyed reading many of the books created in the game. With the limited numbers of house items and storage allowed you are often forced to pick and choose what to keep.</p><p> I would love to have the books offer status reduction and I think they should. All books earned by quest should have 50-100 x tier level of quest completed in status reduction. For instance, complete the Thundering Steppes creature catalog (Tier 3 zone and quest) would give you a book with 50x3=150 or 100x3=300 status reduction.</p><p> Thoughts?</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p>I agree completely that books should have some status reduction.  Especially as long as some of the original book quests were.  I'm not sure that they should have quite as much reduction as you are suggesting, as that would negatively impact the already minimal economy that exists for carpenters, but maybe 25 x tier would be acceptable.  They should have <i>something</i> at least.  Otherwise, who wants to keep them in your house and take up all those otherwise useful item slots?</p><p>On a side note, you should restart this thread in the Items and Equipment thread, as that is where it belongs.</p>

[Wrapye]

Books don't take up any of the item allocation for a house (they did at launch, but it was removed eventually).  So there would be a concern of balance, that there was status reduction without a cost (space being taken up).  In addition it would potentially limit the number of quests that have a book associated with them, for fear that it would make reducing status costs trivial, if all character did was to complete a lot of quests with books as a reward.

[Seagoat]

<p>I like the status idea, but I'm not sure that's a solution to the "book overpopulation" problem so much as a Snoopy bandaid to make people feel better about earning books, then tossing the ones that don't have the status reduction they want. </p><p>IMO (certain?) bookshelves should be containers.  That would free up tons of room in houses while still enabling you to have all the books you've earned "on display."  Maybe have a merchant-like window pop up when you right-click and "browse the bookcase" that will list the books contained therein and allow you and your visitors to read them.  The designers could either have book graphics built in to the bookshelves or make the books appear on the shelves after you add them to the container.</p><p>The only books I display in my house are the ones that look unusual, the ones that have the "stack of books" appearance, and, of course, the Cellus Family Bookcase; I probably have between 20 and 30 books in my downstairs room.  Even so, my house vault has two rosewood strongboxes full of books, and I'm working on filling up a third.  I love doing book quests, and I don't want to be forced to get rid of any of the books I've earned.</p><p>Real Life carries over into the game for me on this point...I <i>hate</i> throwing books away and will avoid it at all costs.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Seagoat]

<cite>Wrapye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Books don't take up any of the item allocation for a house (they did at launch, but it was removed eventually). </blockquote> Only certain books no longer count...I just logged in with one of my alts and picked up about a dozen books from her inn room.  All but two counted toward the item limit (one L&L book -- but not the other L&L books she had, which is odd -- and one quested book).

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Wrapye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Books don't take up any of the item allocation for a house (they did at launch, but it was removed eventually).  So there would be a concern of balance, that there was status reduction without a cost (space being taken up).  In addition it would potentially limit the number of quests that have a book associated with them, for fear that it would make reducing status costs trivial, if all character did was to complete a lot of quests with books as a reward. </blockquote> Almost all the books in my house count towards items. I stopped counting at a little over a hundred.

[Thoronve]

<cite>Wrapye wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>Books don't take up any of the item allocation for a house (they did at launch, but it was removed eventually).</b>  So there would be a concern of balance, that there was status reduction without a cost (space being taken up).  In addition it would potentially limit the number of quests that have a book associated with them, for fear that it would make reducing status costs trivial, if all character did was to complete a lot of quests with books as a reward. </blockquote><p> Not meaning to derail this thread but.....</p><p>Yes - a lot of the books were altered to not use up the allocation - but not <b>all </b>of them. I had LOTS of books (now having to be decanted to an alt's room) and being from Qeynos went to the Mage tower and bought all the new versions I could to help with this - but I still have lots of books that are not available in the new version from the Mage tower - Is there somewhere else I can get these as I would LOVE all of my books to not count to item allocation.</p><p>In fact, I've taken to putting all the 'no-cost' books upstairs in my 3 room, and all the ones that still use up an item slot downstairs in my library to keep track of them... (wouldn't it be nice if the description of the no-cost books said '2nd edition'?)</p><p>Coming back to the OPs point - While it would be NICE to have status on the books, I don't see this happening (especially if you can simply buy multiple books at no-itemcost for 1c to bump up the status). however perhaps on SOME of the books (L&L books?) a small amount of status would be worthwhile - if the books were marked LORE....</p><p>Thoronve</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Seagoat wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>IMO (certain?) bookshelves should be containers.  That would free up tons of room in houses while still enabling you to have all the books you've earned "on display."  Maybe have a merchant-like window pop up when you right-click and "browse the bookcase" that will list the books contained therein and allow you and your visitors to read them.  The designers could either have book graphics built in to the bookshelves or make the books appear on the shelves after you add them to the container</p></blockquote><p>I agree completely and was considering a thread on this by itself. The bookcases should be slotted much like boxes. The bookcase would be considered 1 house item and its status reduction would be a culmination of the books inserted into those slots and the amount for the bookcase itself (common versus rare). Higher tier and rare made bookcases would have more slots. The idea of a popup window listing the books contained is a good one as well.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote><p>I agree completely that books should have some status reduction.  Especially as long as some of the original book quests were.  I'm not sure that they should have quite as much reduction as you are suggesting, as that would negatively impact the already minimal economy that exists for carpenters, but maybe 25 x tier would be acceptable.  They should have <i>something</i> at least.  Otherwise, who wants to keep them in your house and take up all those otherwise useful item slots?</p><p>On a side note, you should restart this thread in the Items and Equipment thread, as that is where it belongs.</p></blockquote>Ok, I can see that. 25xtier sounds reasonable but some of the quest, especially the sequels deserve much more that that. The ones in Rivervale require 10 kills x 10 rounds, problem being that only 1-2 of the item needed for round kill spawns at one time in the zone with 10-20 minute repops. You can spend 10-15 hours of constant camping to complete those book quests; certainly those should deserve a little more reduction.

[Rijacki]

If the only way you could get the place-able book was the completion of the quest and not to start it, then yes, they should have status reduction. The OLD L&L books, race books, and a few others still count toward the items in a room/house.  Most of them have counterparts you can buy (for next to nothing) from the sage in the Qeynos and Freeport mage guild (no fae would have been started log ago enough to have any of the old ones so no need to have conversion in their mage guild).  Before the book conversion, the starter for L&L was not place-able.  You only got the house item book and weapon when you finished it.  Now, though, you can pick up most of the starters multiple times, if you want, as long as you place the last one (lore only counts what you have in an inventory, bank, or vault slot).  Instead of the books having status reduction, I wish the L&L wall weapons would or not count toward room items.  In fact, I wish any house item without status reduction wouldn't count toward the room items.

[Elizabette]

It would be nice for them to count as status for the house but they would need to count against house items. Maybe if they did this they would up the item limit?<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Moonblosso]

<p>The idea of bookshelves as containers is an excellent one!!  I get so annoyed when I can't place all my books in the shelf, and they overlap, or sit through the shelf, it just looks wrong!  But a bookshelf like the cellus family one, with the book graphics on that you could place your books into like a container would be awesome, and yeah, get a list of them and be able to read books from the list. </p><p>I prefer it when the books are not placable in your house until you have completed the quest... a bigger sense of achievement and easier to keep track of what you have done or not... when I finish an L&L I am usually just deleting the book reward because I already have it in my house, would be better if the quest starter couldn't be placed in your house.  Also, some of the quests, when you complete them, it doesn't delete the quest starter book!  Much better when it replaces the quest starter book with the house item when you are done, again less confusion as to what I have finished or not...  (maybe that's holding my hand a bit, but some of the book quests already do this, and some don't)</p>

[SpritRaja]

Love the idea of a bookshelf container. It should be setup with more options such as browse bookshelf wherein you get a window with every book in there listed and clicking on a book would bring up the book to read. Having books not yet completed listed would be cool too.

[SteelPiston]

Those books just take up valuable house space and the book stacks just make the place look untidy. They serve no real purpose, but I'm reluctant to get rid of them incase one day they have a use. I like the container bookshelf idea. Then I could make a library. Status would be nice, but I can't seeing SOE giving us more than 50 to 100SP a book.

[Cusashorn]

All books from Desert of Flames, Kingdom of Sky, Fallen Dynasty, or Echoes of Faydwer do not count towards total items in your house. They went back and changed all books from Zek, Enchanted Lands, Feerrot, and Everfrost to no longer count either. Creature Mastery and Lore & Legend books do not count either. The only books that still do are three-stage books like the History of the Races books. And that's what? 15 books at the most?

[Finora]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of the books having status reduction, I wish the L&L wall weapons would or not count toward room items.  In fact, I wish any house item without status reduction wouldn't count toward the room items. </blockquote><p>This is what I've wished for a long while now (even sent it in feedbacks and what not heh).</p><p>Getting enough status reduction isn't much of a problem if someone actually tries. And if you choose not to try doing the writs to get the weekly status is also not that big of a deal (unless you are low level trying to get the 50-60k status rent for a big house hehe, which is unlikely). I have a very large box full of books that still count towards the total =(. Even after trading in the ones that I could. Those would see the light of day again if all those Heritage quest/L&L trophies/ and other stuff that counts but doesn't have status attached didn't count towards my total. </p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p>My original intent and perhaps I forgot to include it was to make the clarification that books with status would be Lore / No-Trade and only have status for books which were rewarded for Quest completion. With regards to the books at the mage towers, you will notice those books you can buy for next to nothing are for books you have completed quests for. I noticed that when initially the list was very short for the 1cp books and the more i have completed it takes forever to scroll the list now. I suppose this was put in place as a way to purchase the books again after you destroyed the originals for having no value in the event you wanted to get the book again and read it. /shrug</p><p> I completely agree that quest starters should disappear when the quest starts and quest reward books are the only ones which should be placeable. Definitely provides a better sense of accomplishment. I dont mind the different looks and stacks of books. Having the container bookcases would give you the option of storing them in there where the look of the bookcase wouldnt change, only the listing OR Placing them around yourself. So if you want little stacks everywhere you could have them or shove them in the container for a neater look.</p>

[Elessara]

<p>The "bookshelf as container that will display your books" is not a new one,  its been proposed many times by many people.  It was then, as it is now, an excellent idea and one that I would LOVE to see implemented.  Especially since (/rant on) it can be so darn DIFFICULT to place books on the shelves that exist in game.  There are some shelves that you can't place *anything* on at all, which makes them pretty useless - not to mention they look silly sitting there empty. (/rant off) </p><p>I would love it if the shelf-container would be placeable in your house and it would look empty and it would start to fill as you put in more books.  You could right click on it to get a scrollable list of titles, select the title you want to read and then be able to read it.</p><p>Ok ok, back on topic.  I think the books that count towards your item limit SHOULD have some status reduction.  Those that do not count, should not.</p><p> Nia~</p>

[bleap]

Just 10 points each would be like 500 total...That would actualy give people reason to collect them..

[Seagoat]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>All books from Desert of Flames, Kingdom of Sky, Fallen Dynasty, or Echoes of Faydwer do not count towards total items in your house. They went back and changed all books from Zek, Enchanted Lands, Feerrot, and Everfrost to no longer count either. Creature Mastery and Lore & Legend books do not count either. The only books that still do are three-stage books like the History of the Races books. And that's what? 15 books at the most?</blockquote><p> See my post <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=356350#4037056" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">a little further up</a>.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Unless I happen to have 10 of those 15 or so books on one alt -- which is pretty darn unlikely -- I think your statement may be a little off.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Granted, most of the books that alt has are from before the book change, but that just reinforces the theory that not all (maybe not even most) of the old books were changed to not count against the house item limit.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Elessara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would love it if the shelf-container would be placeable in your house and it would look empty and it would start to fill as you put in more books. You could right click on it to get a scrollable list of titles, select the title you want to read and then be able to read it.</p></blockquote>Sign me up for this idea <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rijacki]

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My original intent and perhaps I forgot to include it was to make the clarification that books with status would be Lore / No-Trade and only have status for books which were rewarded for Quest completion. With regards to the books at the mage towers, you will notice those books you can buy for next to nothing are for books you have completed quests for. I noticed that when initially the list was very short for the 1cp books and the more i have completed it takes forever to scroll the list now. <span style="color: #cc0000">I suppose this was put in place as a way to purchase the books again after you destroyed the originals for having no value in the event you wanted to get the book again and read it.</span> /shrug</p><p> I completely agree that quest starters should disappear when the quest starts and quest reward books are the only ones which should be placeable. Definitely provides a better sense of accomplishment. I dont mind the different looks and stacks of books. Having the container bookcases would give you the option of storing them in there where the look of the bookcase wouldnt change, only the listing OR Placing them around yourself. So if you want little stacks everywhere you could have them or shove them in the container for a neater look.</p></blockquote>Yes, the books on the Sage are for the ones you've completed (I didn't mean to imply otherwise, if I did).  Originally it was a way to convert your old style books (which actually sell for quite a few silver) to the new style.  Old style books (not all were converted, sadly) count toward your room item total.  New style books don't count toward your total.  You can, though, buy as many of the books for quests you completed as you want (another reason they shouldn't have status reduction, same reason HQ rewards shouldn't, though I would love for them to). The book styles changed a couple LU before DoF (not sure precisely when) and before books as collection quests were added (but not too long before and still before DoF).  The "kill x of y repeatedly" books are all old style.  Since the "kill x of y repeatedly" were replaced with the collection quest versions, I think they were left off the Sage conversion list.  DoF and after, none of the books are in the old style since the conversion occurred before then. I've been around too long, I remember too much of this stuff *laugh* (it's also a problem at work, I'm the one who remembers all the versions of applications we develop and the history of some of their development choices through the shift in people developing them *laugh*).

[madha]

I feel completed books and HQ stuff should offer reduction maybe even the Lore and legend quest rewards since the books are finished when u get them.

[MrWolfie]

<p>No.</p><p>Carpenters get little enough business as it is. (No, I don't play one either).</p>

[TaleraRis]

Love the idea, but I'm an avid book collector so I'm probably biased. I would want there to be status on those that were earned, though, ie the end of quests, and not just stuff you can pick up anywhere. As for status reduction in general, I think anything that lacks status reduction shouldn't count toward item totals. And anything that does have reduction should. Although if they implement reduction on books, they would need to either have them as a special designation such as an allotment of books or raise the item total. What would be nice is a checklist to say if you want the status reduction of an item to count or not. If not, you could still have it in your room, but not as a status-reducing item. Then you could still display your books, even if status was added to them.

[Hellswrath]

<cite>TaleraRis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Love the idea, but I'm an avid book collector so I'm probably biased. I would want there to be status on those that were earned, though, ie the end of quests, and not just stuff you can pick up anywhere. As for status reduction in general, I think anything that lacks status reduction shouldn't count toward item totals. And anything that does have reduction should. Although if they implement reduction on books, they would need to either have them as a special designation such as an allotment of books or raise the item total. What would be nice is a checklist to say if you want the status reduction of an item to count or not. If not, you could still have it in your room, but not as a status-reducing item. Then you could still display your books, even if status was added to them. </blockquote> Great idea, but then there would be less of a drive to upgrade to the bigger rooms.  I'm forced to agree that if the books do not count towards the item total, then they shouldn't have status reduction on them.  However, I still think those that do should have some status reduction attached to them.  As for the container style bookshelf, it sounds excellent!  Probably too difficult to implement, however.

[Elessara]

<p>I don't care if the container bookshelf is too hard to implement!!  I want it!  WAAAAAH! /tantrum</p><p>Ok, now that I've finished acting like a 3 yr old ... At this point in time, the container shelf may very well be too hard to do.  They've been doing some nifty things lately, programming wise, so maybe sometime in the future.  Until then, my books will just have to remain scattered all over the floor lol.</p><p>On a side note, with the reduction of lag in the houses, I want a bigger house.  Five rooms and a max of 500 items is just NOT cutting it.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> Nia~</p>