Regarding Character Death Totals.

[TerabithianWhisperwi]

<p>Hi there. I created one of my toons to be "deathless". I was playing him as carefully as possible to see how far I could get. Today, I died, very clearly due to a bug. I petitioned, and was told by a GM that they sympathized, but that THERE WAS NO WAY TO REMOVE A DEATH FROM MY RECORD.</p><p>I am rather annoyed that the mechanics of the game do not allow this. If a death is clearly due to a bug, like for example, falling to death while swimming...then that death should not be counted against the player. However, on your records site, there is clearly a listing for "number of deaths".</p><p>My thought on this is that if you cannot remove unfair deaths, or cannot alter that number in any way, then perhaps this stat should NOT be listed as an achievement of your character. I understand that deaths like this happen sometimes, but I am irritated that nothing can be done to recompense the player. People tell me things like "well, the death penalites are so low that it shouldn't matter" and "it's no big deal."</p><p>But to me, it IS a big deal. I am proud of my careful gameplay, and I spend countless hours on using my other toons to explore and die and whatnot so that I can have a role-playing character who dies only once. If such a death is recieved in error, I hope one can see why this would upset me.</p><p> So I guess I would say to Devs or Techs that read this that there really should be a way to remove a death from the death total that is clearly due to a bug, or, there should be NO death total listing. If you removed the death total listing, then you'd be sending the message that the number of deaths a toon suffers is not relevant to gameplay, and quite honestly, I think this is a good message, and the message you WANT to send. However, as it stands right now, the opposite is true. You have listed this stat, and as such, have placed a value on deaths that seems to be tainted by deaths due to bugs.</p><p>I hope you see my point.</p>

[Josgar]

How did your character die?

[Axelia]

<p>Yeah, I finally just gave up on that idea.</p><p>examples:</p><p> Attacked a mob in EL. As soon as the arrow fired the game crashed. When I relogged she was dead. Two days later same thing. Oh well two deaths in 37 levels.</p><p> Another char ran off the ledge in Freeport due to extream lagg.</p><p> Here is the one that really irritated me though. Griffion tower in TS, hailed the tamer, selected east tower. Game crashed almost immeditaly. When I relogged my char was dead at east tower. <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> List goes on but you get the idea.</p><p> Accept death and move on. <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[liveja]

<cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I hope you see my point.</p></blockquote> Sorry, but I don't.

[Galithdor]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I hope you see my point.</p></blockquote> Sorry, but I don't.</blockquote> I have to agree...whats the point in being deathless? It has no real effect on gameplay or character growth....im sorry but i just dont see the point

[Lornick]

I can see that this is important to you, but you are in the extreme minority here.  I just can't see wasting the resources for a GM to have to investigate if a death was due to a bug or not and then going through character files to erase one death.  BTW, I doubt this will help any, but if I look at someone on the EQ2players site and see that they have an extreme amount of kills per deaths then I generally assume the worst about that player.  Either that player sits around killing low green con mobs all day long with zero risk factor, or they are bots, or it's a bug, etc.  Just like when you look at the highest magic damage done by a player and the top score is a berserker with over 3,000,000 damage done in a single spell.  How does a berserker do 100x the damage of manaburn?  So I just choose to ignore that as a bug.

[Keshaan]

<cite>Galithdor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I hope you see my point.</p></blockquote> Sorry, but I don't.</blockquote> I have to agree...whats the point in being deathless? It has no real effect on gameplay or character growth....im sorry but i just dont see the point</blockquote>Soe has chosen to list number of deaths on its pages and you can sort ppl according to the number of deaths. Therefore Soe has chosen to give value to how many deaths you have. Thats his point.

[TerabithianWhisperwi]

<p>correct Keshaan.</p><p>And as Axelia pointed out, there are lots and lots of ways to die due to program glitches, or bugs, or things like that, that are completely and utterly out of the control of the player. That is the KEY here. Out of the player's control. And they count, and they are permanent. I got GM feedback on my petition request that basically said, "yeah, that's a pretty bogus death, but unfortunately, there is no way for us to remove it from a player's record." So my point is really that they should stop posting the "deaths" total for characters, as it is not always an accurate or valid stat in any way. I know it sounds stupid, but I know it's there, and it haunts me. lol. I know I should just shrug it off...</p><p>However, if a player (like myself) is trying very very hard to be as deathless as possible, deaths like that are upsetting. It is made far worse by SOE placing value on "number of deaths" as a badge of honor. Can you imagine, for example, getting to level 50 without dying, and then dying by falling through the world, or going linkdead on a griffon, or whatever else. ack.</p><p>As for why, eh, it's the challenge of it. Back in the day, the online version of Diablo had an "extreme" setting where your character got only one life. I admire that....it gives a sense of desperate realism to the game. Now don't get me wrong, I have other toons that die lots and lots (I used to die just to teleport). However, I dedicate one character slot to the pursuit of deathlessness, and the game is very unforgiving. I mean, there are soooo many ways to die legitimately, that it really is almost mathematically impossible to do it. But it's kinda fun to try, except for when stupid stuff happens.</p><p>so yeah, I just wish they didn't post the deaths total for characters, because it sends the message that this stat is important somehow. I don't mind the ratio ones, because they paint a much more vague, and interesting, picture....but I'd someohow rather have 100 deaths on my record than 1. It's like a slap.</p>

[Ponos]

<p>It's wonderful to have goals, but if you assign this terribly unrealistic, arbitrary goal to your gameplay, you're just going to end up hating this game.</p><p>Bug and glitches aside -- you will die.  And die.  And die.</p><p>There are so many unpredictable elements in this game, you'd just be putting yourself in a very small, confining box.  </p><p>You'd have to never group; never explore a zone that was even remotely dangerous; never attempt to complete a heroic quest that wasn't already gray.  </p><p>An example: </p><p>I was out harvesting in Thundering Steppes near the Ruins of Varsoon.  I have positive faction with the centaurs, so it was virtually an aggro-free location; just the occasional green trash mob that I could kill with proc damage and counterstikes alone.  </p><p>No worries.  Nothing was going to touch me.  </p><p>Then, while mining, minding my own business -- DOOMSQUALL pops literally right on top of me.  And before I could even stop mining and target, I was dead.  It one-hit killed me so bad that I didn't even go into any death animation.</p><p>I was a standing corpse.  </p><p>Play this game the way it was meant to be played -- with a certain sense of adventure.  </p><p>You will die.  And die.  And die.  But have a lot of fun nonetheless.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Keshaan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Therefore Soe has chosen to give value to how many deaths you have </blockquote>No, actually, YOU have chosen to attach an arbitrary "value" to a ranking system about which most players probably couldn't care less.

[Keshaan]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Keshaan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Therefore Soe has chosen to give value to how many deaths you have </blockquote>No, actually, YOU have chosen to attach an arbitrary "value" to a ranking system about which most players probably couldn't care less. </blockquote>Wrong. I havent attached any value. I was explaining his point because I can see it even if I dont share it. Read my post again and see I never gave my point of view. Personally I couldnt care less. Nevertheless it's Soe who has chosen to rank number of deaths and therefore you cannot argue that soe doesnt care how many times a person has died.

[hellfire]

just change servers..when ya do deaths get reset <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Illmarr]

<cite>Ponos wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was out harvesting in Thundering Steppes near the Ruins of Varsoon.  I have positive faction with the centaurs, so it was virtually an aggro-free location; just the occasional green trash mob that I could kill with proc damage and counterstikes alone.  </p><p>No worries.  Nothing was going to touch me.  </p><p>Then, while mining, minding my own business -- DOOMSQUALL pops literally right on top of me.  And before I could even stop mining and target, I was dead.  It one-hit killed me so bad that I didn't even go into any death animation.</p><p>I was a standing corpse.  </p><p>Play this game the way it was meant to be played -- with a certain sense of adventure.  </p><p>You will die.  And die.  And die.  But have a lot of fun nonetheless.</p></blockquote>We need more "Zone Sweeper" mobs in this game to add spice.  <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[liveja]

<cite>Keshaan wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Wrong. I havent attached any value.</p><p> Nevertheless it's Soe who has chosen to rank number of deaths and therefore you cannot argue that soe doesnt care how many times a person has died. </p></blockquote><p>Fine. You didn't attach any value to the ranking system, the OP did. It's still an arbitrary "value" assigned to a ranking system about which most players couldn't care less.</p><p>As to whether or not SOE "cares" how many times a person dies: I think you're inferring entirely too much from the notion that they have such a ranking system. I, personally, am not going to say whether or not SOE cares, because other than the fact that they have this ranking system -- which, BTW, I didn't even know about until the OP posted this rant -- I have no idea what they think about it, or why.</p><p>I do have an idea that they will not think this particular request is important enough to do anything. </p>

[Keshaan]

<cite>livejazz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fine. You didn't attach any value to the ranking system, the OP did. It's still an arbitrary "value" assigned to a ranking system about which most players couldn't care less.<p>As to whether or not SOE "cares" how many times a person dies: I think you're inferring entirely too much from the notion that they have such a ranking system. I, personally, am not going to say whether or not SOE cares, because other than the fact that they have this ranking system -- which, BTW, I didn't even know about until the OP posted this rant -- I have no idea what they think about it, or why.</p><p>I do have an idea that they will not think this particular request is important enough to do anything. </p></blockquote>The OP's values are not arbitrary simply because they are encouraged by SOE themself on their own official homepage. YOUR values on the other hand are arbitrary!

[Thicket Tundrabog]

I have sympathy with the OP. We all set our own challenges and targets. A zero death goal is certainly very challenging and essentially impossible because of bugs, crashes, lag etc. On the other hand, intervention by SoE employees to reset a character death is not reasonable. Although hugely important to the OP, there is no way for SoE to easily and quickly differentiate between someone with a zero-death target and the thousands of other players who simply want to reset an unfortunate death due to game issues. It would be a major use of resources for little value, in my opinion. There are other very challenging and achievable targets the OP could choose instead. One that I am currently working on is to get all 19 Destroyer titles. I'm 46% of the way there with 5 destroyer, 4 slayer and 10 hunter titles.

[roces9]

Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><cite>Ponos wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was out harvesting in Thundering Steppes near the Ruins of Varsoon.  I have positive faction with the centaurs, so it was virtually an aggro-free location; just the occasional green trash mob that I could kill with proc damage and counterstikes alone.  </p><p>No worries.  Nothing was going to touch me.  </p><p>Then, while mining, minding my own business -- DOOMSQUALL pops literally right on top of me.  And before I could even stop mining and target, I was dead.  It one-hit killed me so bad that I didn't even go into any death animation.</p><p>I was a standing corpse.  </p><p>Play this game the way it was meant to be played -- with a certain sense of adventure.  </p><p>You will die.  And die.  And die.  But have a lot of fun nonetheless.</p></blockquote>We need more "Zone Sweeper" mobs in this game to add spice.  <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>However silly it sounds, I agree with Ilmaaaaah here. Those kind of stupid, random, infurriating Doomsquall deaths may be stupid, random and infurriating (sp?) at the time they happen, but are the little memories that make the game special. How fun would EQLive have been if Wushi didn't kill you once in a while, or if you had never been eaten by a shark when you fell off the boat in OOT? When you sit around and reminise (sp again) about High School/College with your old friends you never talk about that one day where you had lunch or went to class and everything went fine. You remember that time something really stupid and arbitrary (that [Removed for Content] you the hell off at the time) happened. Video games are the same way. </p><p>Now I know I took this thread in a random direction a little...and I'm not suggesting that Vox's spirit just fly around Everfrost killing b1tchs every 5 minutes. Just everything in light of the OP sounds a little silly. When you're sitting around playing EQ4 and looking back on silly old EQ2 with your guildies, you'll laugh about that one toon you tried to make "deathless" for RP sake but died in a [Removed for Content] pond in the Baubbleshire or wherever and laugh. Take it with a grain of salt man. After all, it is just a game.</p><p>PS: Vox should terrorize EF every now and again.... <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Axelia]

<p>I had a goal of zero deaths myself but like I pointed out things happen that are totally out of the players control. This MMO is NOT designed for perma-death. Like I said also, accept the deaths and move on. I use to play D2 and hardcore at that. I lost many chars in that game due to bad stuff. As for their database with death count, I agree it should be removed as PvE but for PvP it plays an important part of the game like DAoC.</p>

[ZachSpastic]

<cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can see that this is important to you, but you are in the extreme minority here.  I just can't see wasting the resources for a GM to have to investigate if a death was due to a bug or not and then going through character files to erase one death.  BTW, I doubt this will help any, but if I look at someone on the EQ2players site and see that they have an extreme amount of kills per deaths then I generally assume the worst about that player.  Either that player sits around killing low green con mobs all day long with zero risk factor, or they are bots, or it's a bug, etc.  Just like when you look at the highest magic damage done by a player and the top score is a berserker with over 3,000,000 damage done in a single spell.  How does a berserker do 100x the damage of manaburn?  So I just choose to ignore that as a bug.</blockquote><p>I'm in that extreme minority. Dying the least number of times possible is one of my goals in the game. </p><p>Just this weekend I was in Kelethin and the server was lagging. My first clue that there was a problem was when keystrokes lagged and repeated themselves in the chat text box. I exited my inn room and started to cross the platform when the lag hit me and the server was not responding to keyboard commands. My non-Fae character ran right off the platform and all I could do was watch as he fell to his death. I ranted and raved at the monitor and called the SOE devs every dirty, insulting phrase that came to mind. And I can curse to make a sailor blush.</p><p>In the end, I just had to shrug it off as the first death of many more to come. Just because a player is capable of surviving more encounters than you does not mean they are bad players. On second thought, keep thinking your way. It will probably be better for players who aren't into character death if you aren't grouping with them.</p>

[mellowknees72]

<cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can see that this is important to you, but you are in the extreme minority here.  I just can't see wasting the resources for a GM to have to investigate if a death was due to a bug or not and then going through character files to erase one death.  BTW, I doubt this will help any, but if I look at someone on the EQ2players site and see that they have an extreme amount of kills per deaths then I generally assume the worst about that player.  Either that player sits around killing low green con mobs all day long with zero risk factor, or they are bots, or it's a bug, etc.  Just like when you look at the highest magic damage done by a player and the top score is a berserker with over 3,000,000 damage done in a single spell.  How does a berserker do 100x the damage of manaburn?  So I just choose to ignore that as a bug.</blockquote><p><b>I'm in that extreme minority. Dying the least number of times possible is one of my goals in the game. </b></p><p>(snip)</p><p>It will probably be better for players who aren't into character death if you aren't grouping with them.</p></blockquote><p> I'm with you, too.  I try to be as death-free as possible.  I don't group much (duo with my husband or group with friends/family who play), I don't raid (and never will)...so I take my glory where I can get it, and where I have some control.  I have a bit of pride about how few deaths some of my characters have had...and with others, well, meh, can't keep my conjurer from death a lot of times, so, oh well.</p><p>But I can also understand that SOE is not going to take the time when you die "accidentally" to: a) investigate how you actually died, b) determine whether or not it was accidental, and then c) reverse your total death count.  If they start doing that, those of us who care about our Kills to Death ratio and who have died in the past due to bugs, lagging, Doomsquall randomly popping, etc., are going to start clamoring that we want all of OUR ratios fixed, too, no matter when the death occurred, etc.  It's not a reasonable expectation.  I would MUCH rather have GMs spending their time investigating bot crews, plat sellers, greifers, and correcting bugs and errors in the game that are game-breaking (such as goblins in PoF not rendering until they've killed you twelve times over) than working on my accidental deaths.</p>

[bleap]

<cite>TerabithianWhisperwind wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hi there. I created one of my toons to be "deathless". I was playing him as carefully as possible to see how far I could get. Today, I died, very clearly due to a bug. I petitioned, and was told by a GM that they sympathized, but that THERE WAS NO WAY TO REMOVE A DEATH FROM MY RECORD.</p><p>I am rather annoyed that the mechanics of the game do not allow this. If a death is clearly due to a bug, like for example, falling to death while swimming...then that death should not be counted against the player. However, on your records site, there is clearly a listing for "number of deaths".</p><p>My thought on this is that if you cannot remove unfair deaths, or cannot alter that number in any way, then perhaps this stat should NOT be listed as an achievement of your character. I understand that deaths like this happen sometimes, but I am irritated that nothing can be done to recompense the player. People tell me things like "well, the death penalites are so low that it shouldn't matter" and "it's no big deal."</p><p>But to me, it IS a big deal. I am proud of my careful gameplay, and I spend countless hours on using my other toons to explore and die and whatnot so that I can have a role-playing character who dies only once. If such a death is recieved in error, I hope one can see why this would upset me.</p><p> So I guess I would say to Devs or Techs that read this that there really should be a way to remove a death from the death total that is clearly due to a bug, or, there should be NO death total listing. If you removed the death total listing, then you'd be sending the message that the number of deaths a toon suffers is not relevant to gameplay, and quite honestly, I think this is a good message, and the message you WANT to send. However, as it stands right now, the opposite is true. You have listed this stat, and as such, have placed a value on deaths that seems to be tainted by deaths due to bugs.</p><p>I hope you see my point.</p></blockquote><p> No one but you will ever know...so what's you point? It's a game. People die, sometimes to bugs...Eventually you WILL die to a Mob or a fall or something....Everyone does...</p><p>All toons die, not all toons really live...</p>

[RipFlex]

<p>I perfer a low death count in any game I play.  Being let's say a Monk that has Died 54768747 times with FD at their fingertips makes for a lousy player, soloing or group.  For me, I hate dieing period in a game, I would never suicide as exploits for travel, and it upsets me dieing due to a bug.  If you observe my toons their death rates are low.  I solo, group and Raid.</p><p>Are Deaths all lumped up as one stat or Player vs Player deaths are seperate?  Being killed by a Player should be counted seperately ?</p>

[Lortet]

<p>I understand the frustration but agree it would not be reasonable to ask a gm to take time to correct it. </p><p>I came to eq2 from a game with "hardcore" mode - one death, restart your character - try that with a character you have developed over a full year. I have not lost that core feeling in my eq2 gameplay and feel bad if my character dies, but now work on the basis of "my fault" deaths, "other player fault" deaths and bug/doomsquall deaths. Learn not to get upset about that last set, remember those other players and adjust your grouping habits for the second lot, and improve your playstyle for the first. </p><p>I must admit playing a solo wizzie teaches you about death - if spells hold, you win easily, if they don't, you die, no middle ground.</p>