Questions I have for Bruisers

[Kinvore]

I would like to know why Devastation Fist does not work on Heroic or Epic mobs.  I think most Bruisers would be willing to have the recast timer of it slowed to 10 even 15 minutes if we could just use this ability on all kinds of mobs.  It's not as much damage as, say, Decap, so why not allow it?  Otherwise it's a pretty useless ability. Second of all I'd like to know why is there such a long recast time for the Rabid Cry line of buffs.  All the other buffs are instant or 2 seconds (except for Battle Frenzy but it's ready to recast anyway even if the buff is already up).  This recast time seems to serve no purpose other that to further annoy a Bruiser after he had died (which isn't often but hey, it still happens even to the best of us). Someone please explain.

[ganjookie]

devestation fists works on trash mobs.  It would be too voer powered if you could kill heroics in one hit.  Wheather or not the recast is exteneded its over powered if you can kill above trash solo mobs.  It adds strategy also. Rabid Cry is a group buff not personal, so it takes a bit longer because it is more powerful.  Again it would be overpowered if you could turn it off and on with no consequence. There is no conspiracy between colored eggs and jesus dying, just go with it.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<p>Oh this is great....</p><p>It's not as much damage as decapitate, eh? I'm guessing you might not realize that Devastation Fist is 100% damage. It's insta-kill. It will do as much damage as the creature has hitpoints... does the thing have 23,000 hitpoints? Okay... 23,000 damage.</p><p>If it worked on Epics, you'd be doing millions of damage in one shot. No, you can't have insta kill.</p><p>And if they ever give a class that ability, it would be the Assassin... like in EQ1. Assassinate, and insta kill something. But even then, it was made so you could kill it instantly, but it gave no experience, no quest stuff (they didn't have quest updates like in eq2, but no body drops), and no loot. Nothing, period.</p><p>Considering the stuff that can even drop off trash, I doubt anyone would ever use that kind of ability on raids.</p><p>So no.. you can't have the "I Win" button for Epics, lol.</p>

[Madmoon]

<p>Dev Fist is fine, better'n fine, as is.  It's silly to think we should one shot a heroic, much less an epic.  As is, any heroic encounter including a non-up-arrow monster is down one at the start.</p><p> But Rabid Cry?  When would you ever "turn it off and on?"  I never turn it off.  And even if you could come up with some odd scenario where you wouldn't want its benefits, and then immediately need them on, how would it it be overpowering, even at Master2?</p>

[Etchii]

<cite>Kinvore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to know why Devastation Fist does not work on Heroic or Epic mobs.  I think most Bruisers would be willing to have the recast timer of it slowed to 10 even 15 minutes if we could just use this ability on all kinds of mobs.  It's not as much damage as, say, Decap, so why not allow it?  Otherwise it's a pretty useless ability. Second of all I'd like to know why is there such a long recast time for the Rabid Cry line of buffs.  All the other buffs are instant or 2 seconds (except for Battle Frenzy but it's ready to recast anyway even if the buff is already up).  This recast time seems to serve no purpose other that to further annoy a Bruiser after he had died (which isn't often but hey, it still happens even to the best of us). Someone please explain. </blockquote><p> this works on heroics.  as long as it is no arrow or down arrows.  Have not tried on epics...(rare to see epic mobs without arrows or less).</p><p> I love this ability.... seriously, if you don't believe me, find any dungeon with heroics, find a group encounter that has no arrows or down arrows, and you can one shot one of the mobs in the encounter.</p>

[Kinvore]

Kaisoku@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote><p>Oh this is great....</p><p>It's not as much damage as decapitate, eh? I'm guessing you might not realize that Devastation Fist is 100% damage. It's insta-kill. It will do as much damage as the creature has hitpoints... does the thing have 23,000 hitpoints? Okay... 23,000 damage.</p> </blockquote> Um, no, it's not 100% of mob's damage.  It's 100% of the BRUISER'S maximum health.  It's a common mistake people make. So no, it's not as powerful as decap.  Try again.

[Kinvore]

<cite>Madmoon wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Dev Fist is fine, better'n fine, as is.  It's silly to think we should one shot a heroic, much less an epic.  As is, any heroic encounter including a non-up-arrow monster is down one at the start.</p><p> But Rabid Cry?  When would you ever "turn it off and on?"  I never turn it off.  And even if you could come up with some odd scenario where you wouldn't want its benefits, and then immediately need them on, how would it it be overpowering, even at Master2?</p></blockquote> Once again you're making that same mistake so many others make.  Devastation Fist is NOT a one-shot for any mob it hits, it just usually does enough damage to one-shot single player mobs. And I never said I turned off Rabid Cry.  I said after dying the recast is 1 minute long which seems to serve no purpose whatsoever.  All the other buffs have a much faster recast. For those saying it's a group buff, well other classes have group buffs that don't have nearly the same recast time so I don't understand why this has to be so long.  It's a minor gripe, like a said just an annoyance really, but I just wanted to know why they even bothered with such a long recast.

[Gungo]

<cite>Kinvore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kaisoku@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote><p>Oh this is great....</p><p>It's not as much damage as decapitate, eh? I'm guessing you might not realize that Devastation Fist is 100% damage. It's insta-kill. It will do as much damage as the creature has hitpoints... does the thing have 23,000 hitpoints? Okay... 23,000 damage.</p> </blockquote> Um, no, it's not 100% of mob's damage.  It's 100% of the BRUISER'S maximum health.  It's a common mistake people make. So no, it's not as powerful as decap.  Try again. </blockquote><p>You are absolutely and completely WRONG. Look at your spells before posting. Reread dev fist. it does 100% of TARGETS hitpoints. It even says in the description it INSTANTLY KILLS the mob. </p><p>Secondly rabid cry is a group buff that adds hate. All group buffs have a longer timer due to the events in T5 when people would spam group buffs to build hate. group buffs were FIXED so that this event wuld no longer occur, because it DID. </p>

[Etchii]

Gungo@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><cite>Kinvore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kaisoku@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote><p>Oh this is great....</p><p>It's not as much damage as decapitate, eh? I'm guessing you might not realize that Devastation Fist is 100% damage. It's insta-kill. It will do as much damage as the creature has hitpoints... does the thing have 23,000 hitpoints? Okay... 23,000 damage.</p> </blockquote> Um, no, it's not 100% of mob's damage.  It's 100% of the BRUISER'S maximum health.  It's a common mistake people make. So no, it's not as powerful as decap.  Try again. </blockquote><p>You are absolutely and completely WRONG. Look at your spells before posting. Reread dev fist. it does 100% of TARGETS hitpoints. It even says in the description it INSTANTLY KILLS the mob. </p><p>Secondly rabid cry is a group buff that adds hate. All group buffs have a longer timer due to the events in T5 when people would spam group buffs to build hate. group buffs were FIXED so that this event wuld no longer occur, because it DID. </p></blockquote>I bet this guy is a pansy monk!

[ganjookie]

<cite>Kinvore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kaisoku@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote><p>Oh this is great....</p><p>It's not as much damage as decapitate, eh? I'm guessing you might not realize that Devastation Fist is 100% damage. It's insta-kill. It will do as much damage as the creature has hitpoints... does the thing have 23,000 hitpoints? Okay... 23,000 damage.</p> </blockquote> Um, no, it's not 100% of mob's damage.  It's 100% of the BRUISER'S maximum health.  It's a common mistake people make. So no, it's not as powerful as decap.  Try again. </blockquote>Whoa there buddy.  Lay off the crack pipe, and play the Bruiser class for a few moments.  The "common mistake' here is you spewing forth incorrect info and acting like a blockhead about it.  I hope someone below already corrected you.  I'm not that nice, I just like to mock. [edit: Fan-#&^#@#$-tastic somebody did mention it!]

[Kinvore]

Here's the actual description: <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/kinvore/bruiser.jpg" border="0"> I hit this on an orange mobs and while it landed and took it down from 95% to around 5%, it did NOT do 100% of the mob's hp in damage.  Now, carefully read that second to the last bullet.  Why inflict additional melee damage if it's already going to do 100% of the mobs max health? I'd like to hear a dev or someone who's opinion I'd actually believe to verify this once and for all.  I've heard both from sources I believe but nothing definitive so far. This spectacular hit that you supposedly did on a mob, was it some kind of bug?  I can't think of any non heroic or epic that has 26k hp.  Did you say the hit was magic damage?  The description above says it does crushing damage.  Something doesn't fit there. If it IS 100% of mob's damage I wouldn't mind it being changed to 100% of bruiser's damage as long as it does work on heroics and epics as well. For the person who said that Rabid Cry is a hate buff, I see no hate listed on it.  I only see a DPS buff there.  I think you're getting it confused with Rumble, which DOES proc a hate increase.  The recast for that one, BTW, is instant. As far as the name calling goes, sorry that you can't handle a discussion without throwing a tantrum.  When you're ready to talk like an adult I'll be here.

[Tasye]

I've also had DF not do full damage. Very rarely though. On greens and blues.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<p>Ever since they added class abilities to creatures, many have self saving abilities, or have heals that go off when you attack them or put spells on you that make you heal them. That little bit of extra damage is there for that reason, and on higher level mobs, won't always do the trick if the heal is big enough.</p><p>I've personally never run into a situation where the mob hasn't died from Devastation fist, and yes.. I've killed things that had more than my 8k health. Sometimes twice more, or three times more.</p><p> If you read the description, the Target is Enemy. If it said "100% <b>of caster's max health</b> in crushing damage on target" then I'd agree, and it WOULD work differently at that point.</p><p>This is completely proveable when you go up against some of those instance mobs that have some sickeningly high hp. My Devastation constantly hits for 15k+ on those kinds of mobs. And I use it before going into combat, so no debuffs or anything that could affect it. It simply dies. That's it.</p><p> The ability's description even states that it either kills instantly, or the target is immune. There's no inbetween here mentioned at all... so if it was just high damage, it would be "does massive damage" or something similar, not "kills instantly".</p><p>With regards to Rabid Cry, what Gungo is talking about is that casting a buff creates a certain amount of hate for anything you are in combat with. It's like casting a heal, or a debuff, or whatever... there's no viewable "number" involved... it just pisses off the mob a certain amount.</p><p>Back in the days of pre-LU13, we as Bruisers, would supplement our lack of AE taunting with recasting our buffs over and over to generate more hate in combat and keep aggro. It actually worked, and would make it so we could compete in AE aggro holding. Good tanks and bad tanks were denoted by this difference in tactic. It was a tactic that was told to people on the forums who asked "why can't I hold group aggro".</p><p>This is why they changed it. It was apparently not meant to be this way, at least by the devs, so they changed it so Fighter group buffs at least required a longer recast... and couldn't be cast over and over really quickly to generate extra hate. They want us to use normal hate tools in our possession, and rely on hate improvements from other classes.</p><p>This would be the reason Gungo was talking about.</p>

[Etchii]

Kaisoku@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote><p>Ever since they added class abilities to creatures, many have self saving abilities, or have heals that go off when you attack them or put spells on you that make you heal them. That little bit of extra damage is there for that reason, and on higher level mobs, won't always do the trick if the heal is big enough.</p><p>I've personally never run into a situation where the mob hasn't died from Devastation fist, and yes.. I've killed things that had more than my 8k health. Sometimes twice more, or three times more.</p><p> If you read the description, the Target is Enemy. If it said "100% <b>of caster's max health</b> in crushing damage on target" then I'd agree, and it WOULD work differently at that point.</p><p>This is completely proveable when you go up against some of those instance mobs that have some sickeningly high hp. My Devastation constantly hits for 15k+ on those kinds of mobs. And I use it before going into combat, so no debuffs or anything that could affect it. It simply dies. That's it.</p><p> The ability's description even states that it either kills instantly, or the target is immune. There's no inbetween here mentioned at all... so if it was just high damage, it would be "does massive damage" or something similar, not "kills instantly".</p><p>With regards to Rabid Cry, what Gungo is talking about is that casting a buff creates a certain amount of hate for anything you are in combat with. It's like casting a heal, or a debuff, or whatever... there's no viewable "number" involved... it just pisses off the mob a certain amount.</p><p>Back in the days of pre-LU13, we as Bruisers, would supplement our lack of AE taunting with recasting our buffs over and over to generate more hate in combat and keep aggro. It actually worked, and would make it so we could compete in AE aggro holding. Good tanks and bad tanks were denoted by this difference in tactic. It was a tactic that was told to people on the forums who asked "why can't I hold group aggro".</p><p>This is why they changed it. It was apparently not meant to be this way, at least by the devs, so they changed it so Fighter group buffs at least required a longer recast... and couldn't be cast over and over really quickly to generate extra hate. They want us to use normal hate tools in our possession, and rely on hate improvements from other classes.</p><p>This would be the reason Gungo was talking about.</p></blockquote><p>Dev fist uses a small hit of 95-150 (depending on stats) as a "check"... this hit is easily blocked/parried/missed, etc....</p><p>if you pay close attention you hit first for a tiny ammount, and then instantly you are stifled for 5 seconds and the mob gets hit for their max hp in what counts as a "magic hit".</p><p>that is exactly how it works.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Exactly what kaisoku said. Peopel already told you nicely once then you started posting like an idiot. If people called you names thats your fault for being dumb. </p><p>Everything builds some hate. heals debuffs buffs etc all add hate but its not in the spell description. Group buffs add ALOT of hate which is why Rabid cry is not an insta cast spell. This is why shadowknights deathmarch while it adds absolutely NO HATE is thier biggest taunt right now. Group buffs add ALOT of hate and radib cry was FIXED to not be used that way. </p><p> Also dev fist is 100% of the TARGETS hitpoints. soem mobs have wards, reactives, etc and 100% does not kill the mob. Nor does the extra bit of damage. Dev fist use to be actually 105% of a mobs hitpoints. I don't know why they changed it. </p><p>But I would not mind devastation fist being 100% of my hitpoints on a mob it would make it much mroe useful in raids other then killing swarm adds. although a 13k+ DD on a 5 min timer might be considered overpowering for us. Well they would at least need to increase the amount of decap then for assassins.</p>

[Zendi_Perma]

<p>Those Nizari magic/spirit things by the final named in Nizara are solo mobs with around 25K hit points.   They can be killed with devastation fist.</p><p> Another good test is duel a conjuror, have then plane shift their tank pet, and boom!   devastation fist for a nice big hit.</p><p>I have seen Dev Fist get parried/miss many times.   I've never had a mob survive when it hit, but a ward would do just that.     It should do like 200% damage!</p>

[eyes007]

<p>geez you gotta wonder why you'd open yourself to so much ridicule for something as minor as what devastation fist does. All you need to do is go into Mistmoore and hit one of the mobs just inside the entrance to see what everyone is talking about. Most of those mobs are 14k in health but a few are 22k. If you can kill one with one shot, then you have to ask the question "If it's based on my health, why then don't I have 22k hitpoints or the least, 14k?"</p><p>Let me explain it in simple terms:</p><p>the Melee dmg of 100 or so is the check for the AI to see how much HP the mob has.</p><p>the devastation fist follows straight after, of 100% of that check.</p><p>ala instant death.</p><p>in the event that a miss is recorded, the mob will still be damaged by the melee check.</p><p>Devastation fist only works occasionally on PVP but only because the pet has HP buffs granted to it that are missed by the check, so it will sometimes deal only the base HP damage and only severely damage the pet.</p><p>Basically, it is insta kill, any other theory is wrong wrong wrong, with only the exceptions said above. </p>

[Etchii]

Dredonvani@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote><p>geez you gotta wonder why you'd open yourself to so much ridicule for something as minor as what devastation fist does. All you need to do is go into Mistmoore and hit one of the mobs just inside the entrance to see what everyone is talking about. Most of those mobs are 14k in health but a few are 22k. If you can kill one with one shot, then you have to ask the question "If it's based on my health, why then don't I have 22k hitpoints or the least, 14k?"</p><p>Let me explain it in simple terms:</p><p>the Melee dmg of 100 or so is the check for the AI to see how much HP the mob has.</p><p>the devastation fist follows straight after, of 100% of that check.</p><p>ala instant death.</p><p>in the event that a miss is recorded, the mob will still be damaged by the melee check.</p><p>Devastation fist only works occasionally on PVP but only because the pet has HP buffs granted to it that are missed by the check, so it will sometimes deal only the base HP damage and only severely damage the pet.</p><p>Basically, it is insta kill, any other theory is wrong wrong wrong, with only the exceptions said above. </p></blockquote><p>I've never seen the small melee hit land, and then the 100% damage miss.  </p><p>Ever.</p><p>Edit:: not to say your wrong.  My point is i'd be [Removed for Content].  =P</p>

[eyes007]

Yeah, I don't think you get to see the check unless a miss is recorded against the 100% instant kill. That's when you will see it, it is pretty rare though to miss.

[Haet]

I was reading another post on this topic so I went to Castle Mistmoore and one shotted some of the vampires at the door. Yellow Con to a 70 and one hit I did was over 25k. Still a great ability!!