Best Cloth/Light Armor Class Pvper? [Archive]

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chesh11

04-06-2007, 06:08 PM

Whats the best cloth class for pvp? What are the strengths and weaknesses of the different cloth classes in pvp?

Xova

04-06-2007, 06:26 PM

Hmm...you know it really depends. There is a Warlock on Vox who I will run from if I see him on screen because he tears through entire groups like they're nothing. Some Wizards can be really nasty if they manage to get off Fusion and Ice Nova. Necros and Conjurors can be a tough fight depending on what pet they use (as a healer I hate their scout and tank pets.) I've had my butt handed to me several times by Illusionists and Coercers.With cloth classes (ie mages) I think PvP success really depends on them being a part of a group. Rarely do I see them run solo, though there was a pretty tough Coercer on Nagafen a bit ago that used to wreak all sorts of havoc as a solo PvP'er.Beyond that it's tough to comment because my only cloth wearer is a lvl17 Wizard twink that I use to kill other twinks who harass lowbies. She's extremely tough solo, but against a group she has trouble because she can't heal or de-aggro much. But get me a healer and a tank and I will wreck an entire group. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

dnice74

04-10-2007, 02:07 AM

I'm a T7 conjuror. All matchups are considering equal gear and skill level, solo matchups.Warlocks, Conjurors, Wizards(with manashield). Warlock - can kill entire group if they aren't paying attention in 2 hits. Apoc, rift, bye. Nullmail, manashield, massive poison damage, specialty pets. I don't know how they do against healers, but they are borderline nerf material against other casters. Very powerful when well-played, one of the best pvp casters against other casters overall. Dunno what their weaknesses are against other classes. Conjurors - Plane shifted pets(even when they aren't, they are still very powerful), animist's bond, swarm pets, long-lasting snares, stoneskin. Worst of the group against scouts(they get screwed on evacs/manashield/mez/stuns), best of the group against healers because of pet canni/aa heal/powerful pets that never run out of mana; they will run out of mana if the conjuror has the healing pet(otherwise wardens will own them too, but probably not mystics or templars). When played properly, they are at least a tie for the best pvp casters with warlocks - against other casters. I have no problem with tanks, either(bezerkers can be tough, though). Weak against bruisers/brigands - bruisers are very tough and brigands can be beaten, but more often than not are next to impossible. SK's and assassins are very killable because of stoneskin (if you time it right to block decap/PT that is - I'm not saying they always beat them, but they can very easily kill them). Never ever lose to bards(but bards need help as a pvp class imo). Highly versatile outside of PvP, T1 DPS/soloers/great utility. Wizards - Massive crits, snares, stuns, interrupts. If they get an ice nova/fusion crit off, it is [I cannot control my vocabulary] what they can do(but this isn't the 40% cap thread). Honestly, they are pretty weak without manashield if you have good resists, but can be juggernauts with it against other casters. Doubt they do well against templars wardens or mystics, but they can chime in. Get eaten up by scouts like everyone else. Too much of a one-trick pony for my tastes, but thousands don't agree. A skillful necro can be scary with their insanely long stun, taps, lifeburn and undead tide, but if you burn them down fast, they are useless. Coercers can be frightening with a ^^^ pet, but same thing as necros. Illies can chime in here if they want, I've heard they are scary but I never fight them.Overall, if you are talking about PvP, I'd give a slight edge to the warlock. Many toys, silly burst. If you want to factor other things besides that (and don't mind the fact that many scouts will often eat you alive), I'd pick a conjuror because their versatility is sick, and I like being able to smoke healers as a cloth class =)

chuckstud

04-10-2007, 02:10 AM

Coercers

SuckaFree

04-10-2007, 02:34 AM

<cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>Coercers </blockquote>he speaks truth

chuckstud

04-10-2007, 03:03 AM

I personally don't understand how those people them out, warlocks are all right I suppose... Coercers own your face left, right, down up, south-east, south-west, north-east, north-west, and such~

Ibunubi

04-10-2007, 03:20 AM

I get way too many resists. I 1v1'd Evelan... 16 resists out of about 20 casts. Then our reactives don't hit quite as hard as they used to. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />From my opinion, with AA's, warlocks and illusionists are the best cloth PvP'ers. Wizards? Everyone rolls one.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 10:27 AM

<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>I get way too many resists. I 1v1'd Evelan... 16 resists out of about 20 casts. Then our reactives don't hit quite as hard as they used to. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />From my opinion, with AA's, warlocks and illusionists are the best cloth PvP'ers. Wizards? Everyone rolls one.</blockquote> While it's not really relevant, I couldn't agree with you more. Don't think I could ever play a ranger or a wiz for that reason.

chuckstud

04-10-2007, 12:58 PM

<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>I get way too many resists. I 1v1'd Evelan... 16 resists out of about 20 casts. Then our reactives don't hit quite as hard as they used to. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />From my opinion, with AA's, warlocks and illusionists are the best cloth PvP'ers. Wizards? Everyone rolls one.</blockquote> Stormin Normin never got resists...

Groma

04-10-2007, 01:11 PM

Coercer with Corpse Candle > All. Without one, i say warlock with Manashield and Quickcast.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 01:16 PM

chuckstud

04-10-2007, 01:19 PM

Guess what, I didn't have to watch Stormin Normin in videos, I played with him ingame~ Stormin Normin was the greatest cloth-wearer EVER in the history of forever~ Plus he didn't kill 60s, he ownd everyone~

dnice74

04-10-2007, 01:31 PM

<cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guess what, I didn't have to watch Stormin Normin in videos, I played with him ingame~ Stormin Normin was the greatest cloth-wearer EVER in the history of forever~ Plus he didn't kill 60s, he ownd everyone~ </blockquote>I'm sure he kicked [Removed for Content]. Coercers are your vote, okie dokie. Back on topic.

Radigazt

04-10-2007, 03:03 PM

If you're talking 1v1, I'd go with Coercers, they're quick-casting dominators. But, honestly, how often are you going to see a clothie soloing ... Swashies, Brigs, Rangers and Assassins will eat a clothie like a snack in 2-5 seconds. If you're talking about group v. group, it's gotta be the Warlock. He has insane DPS, AoE's, and I think he's the prototypical glass-cannon. I'd say that Conjuror's pets are insane, and if you give them the time to set up and dictate the battle, you're going to lose. Necro's ability to lifetap is excellent, but again, if you can get past their pets and keep them personally engaged you can beat them. Easier said than done tho. Illusionists are tough when they have their temporary pet up, but when that pet is down they aren't as strong as the Coercer IMHO. Wizards aren't all that great, but they're the ultimate big risk/big reward type. Mana Shield really helps, and Ice Comet is quite nice, but they take too many long casts to get the job done 1v1, and their AoE's don't have good enough range to do the trick in groups. If/when the 40% rule goes into effect (and I seriously think it will--it's the default mode of the just announced PvP Test Server that's going live tomorrow), Wizards are going to need a boost. Their spells are too long casting to put out enough DPS quick enough to make a difference solo, and they don't really bring much else to the table in groups other than their DPS.

dnice74

04-10-2007, 03:10 PM

<cite>Radigazt wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you're talking 1v1, I'd go with Coercers, they're quick-casting dominators. But, honestly, how often are you going to see a clothie soloing ... Swashies, Brigs, Rangers and Assassins will eat a clothie like a snack in 2-5 seconds. If you're talking about group v. group, it's gotta be the Warlock. He has insane DPS, AoE's, and I think he's the prototypical glass-cannon. I'd say that Conjuror's pets are insane, and if you give them the time to set up and dictate the battle, you're going to lose. Necro's ability to lifetap is excellent, but again, if you can get past their pets and keep them personally engaged you can beat them. Easier said than done tho. Illusionists are tough when they have their temporary pet up, but when that pet is down they aren't as strong as the Coercer IMHO. Wizards aren't all that great, but they're the ultimate big risk/big reward type. Mana Shield really helps, and Ice Comet is quite nice, but they take too many long casts to get the job done 1v1, and their AoE's don't have good enough range to do the trick in groups. If/when the 40% rule goes into effect (and I seriously think it will--it's the default mode of the just announced PvP Test Server that's going live tomorrow), Wizards are going to need a boost. Their spells are too long casting to put out enough DPS quick enough to make a difference solo, and they don't really bring much else to the table in groups other than their DPS. </blockquote>Excellent post.

Ibunubi

04-10-2007, 03:33 PM

<cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>I get way too many resists. I 1v1'd Evelan... 16 resists out of about 20 casts. Then our reactives don't hit quite as hard as they used to. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />From my opinion, with AA's, warlocks and illusionists are the best cloth PvP'ers. Wizards? Everyone rolls one.</blockquote> Stormin Normin never got resists... </blockquote>I hate you, lol. But seriously, I wasn't level 70 until the day before EoF came out. I wish I could have PvP'd before EoF when our reactives procced for 1k, and every scout had a maximum 1000 mental resist, which was 5-10%. Now, the same resist number comes out to 35-45%.Wizards have the first shot, one shot abilities, but they have no way to make themselves cast faster and spells cost a lot of power. Although they have a lot of snares, manashield gets wasted while they're trying to cast a spell. Their 30% "oh crap" ward is easily blown through.Warlocks have the highest survivability while able to take out more than one player. It's hard to break through a warlock that has Nullmail, Manashield, Focused Casting, and Freedom of Mind potion. Those there make a warlock a brawler with fast AE DPS. Everything but the potion is back up in under 5 minutes.Illusionists can be the highest damage dealing mage, with power drains, stuns, stifles, mezzing, a pet. I haven't played one, but they don't seem to be held back by any special abilities on high recast timers.Conjurors and Necros, if they are ready and set, they can be nasty, but their good stuff are 15 minute recasts.The majority of the Coercer's DPS comes more from people attacking them. We have to tank you, to kill you. Mages aren't tanks. If we had abilities like Manashield or if our Convulsions spells were different (with today's Resist system) we would be hard to kill. Yes, we can be good with a pet, but the only one worth anything is the corpse candle. Not many people venture over to Bonemire. For us, on Nagafen, Barren Sky is where everyone is.

Ozgood

04-12-2007, 10:28 AM

Playing a Coercer myself as my main, I can tell you that in PvP we are quite nasty. Moreso than in PvE. In PvE half of our abilities that provide us DPS, don't trigger due to mob type. But in PvP it's another story, with a variety of reactives, we can make toons, twinked or not, kill themselves and rather quickly I might add. Problem is; staying alive to see the end of the fight. My wife, who is a Fury (Sheerah, for you Vox people that know of us) has to spend most of her time healing me just to keep me up, forgoing her own, better DPS. Groups that focus on her though, die quickly though <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.I guess why I posted this is to tell you like in everything in this game, it's situational. Coercers do well against casters and hybrids, but keep in mind that they have to hit US or nuke us in order to hurt themselves. So you take a class that has freaking ridiculous pet breaking problems and base his/her DPS off of getting hit, with no wards, shield or whatever, they are if fact, the squishiest (if that is a word) of ALL toons and DIE a ton. I was 34th game wide for PvP kill streak for Coercers with 12!!!! That wouldn't make the top 1,000 in other classes.I would think a Warlock with its DPS and wards would be a good choice and my first choice, based on reading only, would have to be a summoner with perceptor's bodyguard which I think the pet takes spell and or melee damage for you. I would think their tank pets and the HPs they have, taunts they have, the superior DPS they have, the ability to buff stamina, and to lifetap, stun, that the NECRO would be the most survivable.

Yage

04-12-2007, 01:50 PM

<cite>Radigazt wrote:</cite><blockquote>Illusionists are tough when they have their temporary pet up, but when that pet is down they aren't as strong as the Coercer IMHO. </blockquote> I solo PVP all the time... the only classes that i have trouble with and rarely ever kill are bruisers, and SKs now after EoF. And Honestly, my pet is a distraction... Guarantee if you try to kill my pet, you will die. Sure it helps a little, but unless i am fighting a healer it is just a distraction, i kill as fast if not faster with my pet down and my reactive proc and haste up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Yage

04-12-2007, 02:01 PM

<cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>chuckstud wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ibunubi wrote:</cite><blockquote>I get way too many resists. I 1v1'd Evelan... 16 resists out of about 20 casts. Then our reactives don't hit quite as hard as they used to. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />From my opinion, with AA's, warlocks and illusionists are the best cloth PvP'ers. Wizards? Everyone rolls one.</blockquote> Stormin Normin never got resists... </blockquote>.Illusionists can be the highest damage dealing mage, with power drains, stuns, stifles, mezzing, a pet. I haven't played one, but they don't seem to be held back by any special abilities on high recast timers.</blockquote>The biggest drawback to Illusionist is we got hit with the nerf bat at launch of pvp with immunity to our spells. All control spells have a DOUBLE the duration of the spell immunity. So even if my 20 sec mez only lasts 2 secs, you are still immune for 40+ secs. And this holds true for mez, daze, stifle, stun, and root. If i have my pet up, it uses up my stiffle and daze always so those two spells are gone with a pet out. With so many EoF items having stifle and stun procs, 50-90% of the time i throw any control spell my target is immune because someone in my group has alraedy stifled them or whatever. If i mez you, you are immune to mez for practically the entire fight after that. It takes some getting use to, but if you gear out and aa spec for dps, you really don't have to worry about control, just spam all your fast casting nukles which turn into instant cast with increased casting speed aa.

AbyssalSoul

04-14-2007, 07:35 AM

Would definitely have to say in T7 Illusionist / Coercer... but out of frustrating classes to level, I'd also rate those pretty high =)

Balrok

04-14-2007, 09:45 PM

For the most part Coercer. lvl 1-59 I could own anyone within 10 levels. Powerleveled 60-70, but finding resists are a bigger issue then I expected at 70. I'm pretty much mastered out and aa spec'ed for pvp and mental debuffing.... but I think it's because I'm chasing 70's with full pvp armor. I should really pick my battles better, but I would rather die trying then live running... that's just me though. With any Mage, it's all in the aa spec, masters and resists. A coercer spec'ed to help others shouldn't solo pvp. Coercer that is, watch out.... oh, and Stormmin Normin is why I play this class. Still have his final video on my hard drive. Things are not as easy for coercers as it was when he played, but I'm working on my gear and tactics to attempt to represent! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Exur